Dr. James White vs Bro. Joe Ventilacion - Who Is God? - Trinity Debate - Official
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Channel: South Dakota Apologetics
Views: 384,519
Rating: 4.7230272 out of 5
Keywords: James White, Iglesia ni Cristo, Joe Ventilacion, Trinity, God, Jesus Christ, Cult, Church of Christ, Alpha Omega Ministries, South Dakota Apologetics, SD Apologetics, Holy Spirit, INC, INC Debate, #INCdebate, Official INC Debate
Id: ZnElgAnN414
Channel Id: undefined
Length: 216min 9sec (12969 seconds)
Published: Fri Apr 21 2017
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Ventilacion, eh?
Should be working in air conditioning installs. He certainly needs to cool down a bit.
This was painful to listen to as Ventilacion simply takes the INC approach of pulling verses out of context and trying to hang everything on them, rather than cohesive theological exegesis. Exactly as White notes, Ventilacion is hoping to take a single verse then ignore following or surrounding verses...which makes it sound exactly like an INC service: verses horribly out of context. 1:14 is just painful...Ventilacion is floundering around.
You might check out James White's follow up review of the debate here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLhmvCGwVAk
Here's another episode specifically addressing INC issues: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p-j2ldnZRo
I watched the whole thing. It was pretty painful to get thru actually haha. I thought that the INC's style of presentation is very much like their worship services. Specifically being: hard to follow, isolating verses, not taking into account the context of the verse, and the most annoying...unnecessarily repeating themselves over and over.
I have seen a few INC debates and they always try to corner their opponents because the INC expects them to open up using John 1:1. Joe of INC tried soooo many times to corner James White by asking questions over and over and over until joe heard the answer he wanted.
I thought James stance was crystal clear. But he didn't really mention anything about the holy spirit.
INC had 5 guys on the side with a mountain of books and 4 laptops. yet they always had trouble bringing up material for the audience.
In the past INC debates have had a very "homecourt advantage" type feel because they would be at the chapels and the audience would almost always cheer and disrupt. Some may find this intimidating and distracting. So it was good to see that the audience was quiet most of the time so that the debaters could present free of distraction.
Of the first 45 minutes Ive seen, I just wish INC would've sent a better debater or at least someone with a better command of english. The guy wasted his first cross examination; it wasn't very fun to watch. He wasn't clarifying his questions and not responding properly as if he misunderstood White's replies -- hopefully it's because of the language barrier. The air of arrogance is not helping either. Seriously, send someone better.
Dr. White's argument comes across very poorly. At [16:37] his argument that John 17:3 is irrelevant unless you assume Unitarianism is silly because it only becomes irrelevant if you assume the Trinity. He also didn't show anything supporting his stance regarding the holy spirit (so far).
I try to be objective but the idea that God is an entity with three separate beings I cannot come to terms with (I switched to beings and entity as persons implies human natures). I cannot wrap my head around the idea of one entity consisting of three independent beings. Not intending to offend, but the idea sounds like a tool to dismiss the discrepancies in the Bible.
Oh and the wooo from the INC audience was very tacky.
I know this place isn't super active, but I would really like to hear what some of the more rational members and ex-members have to say about the debate.
Also it's funny how Dr. White posted this on twitter.