>> Stephen: HEY, WELCOME BACK,
EVERYBODY! MY NEXT GUEST IS THE PULITZER
PRIZE WINNING EXPERT ON THE ROOSEVELTS, L.B.J., AND LINCOLN. HER NEW BOOK IS "LEADERSHIP: IN
TURBULENT TIMES." PLEASE WELCOME, OUR FRIEND,
DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN! ( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE )
( BAND PLAYING ) ( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE )
( BAND PLAYING ) >> Stephen: NICE TO SEE YOU
AGAIN, DORIS. >> YOU, TOO. >> Stephen: WELL, YOU HAVE
WRITTEN SO MANY BOOKS ABOUT LYNDON JOHNSON AND THE AMERICAN
DREAM, THE FITZGERALD, THE KENNEDYS, THE TREATMENT OF
RIVALS, ABOUT LINCOLN, ABOUT THE BULLY PULPIT WHICH IS ABOUT T.R. NOW YOU HAVE A BOOK CALLED
"LEADERSHIP: IN TURBULENT TIMES," WHICH IS ABOUT LINCOLN,
T.R., F.D.R. AND L.B.J. YOU DIDN'T EVEN HAVE TO DO ANY
RESEARCH, RIGHT? YOU JUST SAT DOWN AT THE TYPE
WRITER AND STARTED SLAPPING THIS STUFF OUT. >> I KNEW YOU WOULD TEASE ME. EACH TIME I FINISHED A FAT BOOK,
LIKE TEDDY OR FRANKLIN, I HAD TO PUT AWAY BOOKS FOR THAT GUY AND
GO TO THE NEXT AND I FELT LIKE I WAS LEAVING AN OLD BOYFRIEND AND
FELT GUILTY. >> Stephen: THAT COULD LEAD TO
A BAR FIGHT. >> IT DOES SOMETIMES, BUT THAT
MAKES IT FUN, I GET TO WATCH IT. THE TRUTH IS BY LOOKING AT THEM
THROUGH LEADERSHIP, BEFORE I I WAS LOOKING AT THEIR COLLEAGUES,
FAMILIES, EVERYTHING GOING ON IN THESE BIG FAT BOOKS, NOW I'M
JUST LOOKING AT IT THROUGH LEADERSHIP. IT'S MUCH MORE INTIMATE. WHERE DID YOUR AMBITION COME
FROM. I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW THAT ABOUT
YOU, ANYBODY HERE. >> Stephen: I'LL ASK THE
QUESTIONS. ( LAUGHTER )
BEFORE YOU WROTE BIOGRAPHIES. THIS IS THE FIRST BOOK ABOUT AN
IDEA. >> RIGHT. >> Stephen: WHY DID YOU FEEL
NOW IS THE RIGHT TIME TO TALK ABOUT THE CHALLENGE OF
LEADERSHIP IN TURBULENT TIMES? >> BECAUSE I SORT OF FELT THERE
WAS AN ABSENCE IN LEADERSHIP IN TURBULENT TIMES. >> Stephen: OH, REALLY? AND MY GUYS --
>> Stephen: YEP? ( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE )
>> -- JUST LISTEN TO THE QUALITIES THEY HAVE AND SEE IF
IT REFLECTS TODAY -- HUMILITY, EMPATHY, RESILIENCE WHEN YOU GO
THROUGH TOUGH TIMES, BEING ABLE TO CONTROL YOUR NEGATIVE
EMOTIONS, SELF-REFLECTION, COURAGE, THOSE KIND OF THINGS. ( LAUGHTER )
>> Stephen: DO YOU THINK THOSE ARE -- DO YOU THINK ANY OF THOSE
TRAITS, HOW DO I SAY THIS -- DO YOU THINK WHICH OF THOSE THAT
TRUMP COULD USE MOST RIGHT NOW TO DEAL WITH THE TURBULENT TIMES
WE'RE IN? I MEAN, HE IS PART OF THE
TURBULENCE HIMSELF IS PART OF THE CHALLENGE. >> I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT
TRAIT THAT THE GUYS SHARED AT THEIR BEST MOMENT WAS EMPATHY,
WHICH MEANS YOU UNDERSTAND OTHER PEOPLE, YOU CARE ABOUT WHAT
THEY'RE FEELING, AND YOU'RE ABLE TO COMMUNICATE. THERE ARE DIFFERENT PARTS TO
HAVE THE COUNTRY TOGETHER. TEDDY ROOSEVELT WARNED THE ROCK
OF DEMOCRACY WOULD FAIL IF PEOPLE IN DIFFERENT REGIONS,
RACES AND RELIGIONS WOULD BEGIN TO SEE THEMSELVES AS EACH OTHER. THAT WAS PRE-TRUMP. WE NEED A PRESIDENT THAT CAN
HEAL THOSE DIVISIONS. TEDDY USED TO GO ON A TRAIN IN
ALL THE PLACES HE LOST AS WELL AS THE PLACES HE WON, NOT JUST
GETTING HIS BASE GOING. WE NEED THAT KIND OF LEADER SO
BADLY TODAY, SO I WANTED THESE GUYS TO COME BACK. ( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE )
>> Stephen: AS YOU SAID, YOU KNOW, THESE GUYS ARE LIKE YOUR
OLD BOYFRIENDS. YOU'VE WRITTEN, YOU'VE HAD SORT
OF INTIMATE RELATIONSHIPS WITH EACH OF THEM AS YOU'VE WRITTEN
BIOGRAPHIES ABOUT THEM. WHO'S YOUR FAVORITE? >> WELL, LINCOLN WITHOUT A
QUESTION. ( APPLAUSE )
I MEAN, I SORT OF FELL IN LOVE WITH HIM. I FELT LIKE, IF I UNDERSTOOD
HIM, HE WAS THE KIND OF PERSON -- HE HAD RESENTMENTS,
NORMAL THINGS, HE HAD ENVY, AMBITION, GELSY, BUT HE SAID IF
YOU ALLOW THOSE EMOTIONS TO FESTER, THEY'LL POISON A PART OF
YOU. EVERY TIME ONE OF THOSE EMOTIONS
COMES OUT IN ME, I WOULD SAY, LINCOLN WOULD SAY STOVMENT HE
WAS FUNNY. I KNEW I WOULD LIKE HIM AS A
STATESMAN, BUT I HAD NO IDEA HOW FUNNY I WOULD BE AND I WOULD BE
LAUGHING BY HIS SIDE. >> Stephen: IF YOU HAD TO BE
ONE OF THEM BACK TO CHALLENGE PRESIDENT TRUMP, WHO WOULD IT
BE? >> IT WOULD BE TEDDY ROOSEVELT,
SIR. THE REASON BEING THAT YOU NEED
SOMEBODY WHO CAN COMMAND THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. TEDDY COULD DO THAT ABSOLUTELY. HE WAS THE PERSON WHO THEY SAID
WANTED TO BE THE BABY AT THE BAPTISM, THE BRIDE AT THE
WEDDING AND THE CORPSE AT THE FUNERAL. HE WAS COLORFUL THAT WAY. HE HAD SHORT STATEMENTS. HE WOULD BE GREAT AT TWEETS. HE WOULD SAY THINGS LIKE SPEAK
SOFTLY AND CARRY A BIG STICK, DON'T HIT UNTIL YOU HAVE TO AND
THEN HIT HARD. AND HE GAVE MAXWELL HOUSE THE
SLOGAN GOOD TO THE VERY LAST DROP. >> Stephen: THAT'S FROM TEDDY
ROOSEVELT? >> ONE OF THE GUYS I WAS
INTIMATE WITH! ( LAUGHTER )
>> Stephen: ONE OF THEM YOU ACTUALLY KNEW QUITE WELL. THIS IS A PHOTOGRAPH OF YOU, YOU
WERE WORKING FOR L.B.J., YOU'RE AT THE PODIUM, THERE'S YOU NEXT
TO LADY BIRD, THIS IS IN 1968. HOW OLD ARE YOU HERE? >> 25. >> Stephen: YOU'RE 25 YEARS
OLD. YOU SEEM TO BE HAVING A HIGH OLD
TIME, LIKELY ENJOYING. ( APPLAUSE )
AND HE JUST SAID SOMETHING FUNNY? WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THIS
PHOTOGRAPH? >> THIS PHOTOGRAPH IS AFTER I'M
ALREADY WORKING FOR HIM IN THE WHITE HOUSE AND WE'RE PRESENT
AGO REPORT TO HIM ABOUT YOUTH PARTICIPATION. >> Stephen: YES. BUT PRIOR TO THAT, I HAD MET
HIM A YEAR BEFORE WHEN I BECAME A WHITE HOUSE FELLOW, THIS GREAT
PROGRAM, WE HAD A DANCE AT THE WHITE HOUSE. HE DID DANCE WITH ME. NOT THAT PECULIAR, THERE ARE
ONLY THREE WOMEN OUT OF THE 16 US WHO FELLOWS. AS HE TWIRLED ME AROUND THE
FLOOR, HE SAID HE WANTED ME TO BE ASSIGNED DIRECTLY TO HIM AT
THE WHITE HOUSE. IT WASN'T THAT SIMPLE. I WAS A GRADUATE FROM HARVARD,
ACTIVE IN THE ANTI-VIETNAM WAR MOVEMENT, HAD WRITTEN AN ARTICLE
AFTER HIM WHICH UNFORTUNATELY CAME OUT TWO DAYS AFTER THE
DANCE AND THE TITLE WAS "HOW TO REMOVE LYNDON JOHNSON FROM
POWER." ( LAUGHTER )
>> Stephen: HE MUST HAVE READ THAT ARTICLE. >> AFTER I WAS ALREADY IN THE
WHITE HOUSE, AFTER WE DANCED AND HE SAID I WAS GOING TO WORK FOR
HIM. SO I THOUGHT I WOULD BE KICKED
OUT OF THE PROGRAM. SURPRISINGLY, H HE SAID, OH,
BRING HER DOWN HERE FOR A YEAR AND IF I CAN'T WIN HER OVER, NO
ONE CAN. SO THAT WAS PRETTY COOL. ( APPLAUSE )
>> Stephen: DID HE WIN YOU OVER? >> HE WON ME OVER. NOT ON THE WAR, BUT ON HIMSELF. HE WAS THE MOST INTERESTING,
FORMIDABLE, INCREDIBLE CHARACTER I'VE EVER MET. HE WOULD CALL PEOPLE IN THE
MORNING IN THE KONG AT 6:00 A.M., AT NOON, AND I WOULD
BE THERE TO LISTEN. HE WOULD CALL A SENATOR AT
MIDNIGHT, 2:00 A.M. HOPE I DIDN'T WAKE YOU UP. NO, NO, I WAS LOOKING AT THE
CEILING HOPING MY PRESIDENT WOULD CALL. ( LAUGHTER )
IT WAS THE GREATEST EXPERIENCE. IT WAS A PRIVILEGE TO WORK WITH
THIS CHARACTER. HE WAS SO SAD IN THIS MEMOIR. HE WAS AT THE RANCH AND KNEW HIS
LEGACY WAS CUT IN TWO BY THE WAR ON VIETNAM, BUT WHAT HE DID ON
CIVIL RIGHTS WILL BE REMEMBERED FOREVER. ( APPLAUSE )
>> Stephen: WELL, I CERTAINLY DON'T WANT TO GET YOU IN ANY
TROUBLE. >> OH, YEAH. >> Stephen: BUT ARE THERE ANY
POLITICIANS YOU SEE TODAY SERVING IN AN INTERNATIONAL OR
LOCAL LEVEL THAT YOU THINK EMBODY THE QUALITIES OF
LEADERSHIP YOU SEE AS A COMMONALITY FOR THESE FOUR MEN? >> I DON'T KNOW AN INDIVIDUAL,
BUT WHAT I'LL TELL YOU I THINK IT WILL COME FROM, IT WILL COME
FROM LOCAL AREAS, IT WILL COME FROM STATES. EVERY CHANGE IN THE COUNTRY
COMES FROM THE ORDINARY CITIZENS WHO GET ACTIVE. AND THE THING THAT WAS MOST
EXCITING TO ME ABOUT THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS IS PEOPLE WERE
AWAKENED. MORE PEOPLE STOOD IN LINES THAN
EVER BEFORE, MORE WOMEN RAN FOR OFFICE THAN EVER BEFORE. MORE YOUNG PEOPLE GOT EXCITED. SO SOMEWHERE OUT THERE, RIFF
CHANGE -- LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, LINCOLN WAS CALLED THE
LIBERATOR. HE SAID DON'T CALL ME THE
LIBERATOR. IT WAS THE CIVIL RIGHTS BEFORE
TEDDY AND FRANKLIN AND BEFORE L.B.J. SO THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE
AND WE'LL KNOW THEM IN THE NEXT MONTHS AND YEARS AHEAD. >> STEPHEN: "LEADERSHIP IN
TURBULENT TIMES" IS AVAILABLE NOW. DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN, EVERYBODY. WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.
