Domestic Extremism: ‘They Aren’t Wearing Hoods, But Slacks’ | Meet The Press Reports | NBC News

[Music] hello there i'm chuck todd and welcome to our second season of meet the press reports when we take a deep dive into a single issue for the entire half hour today this is the first of three episodes that are going to be focused on key security threats to this country on this episode we're looking at violent political extremism over the past two decades the vast majority of political violence in this country has come from far right extremists in fact more than five times the rate of violence from people on the far left far right wing attacks account for the majority of all terror-related incidents in this country since 1994 that according to the center for strategic and international studies now the department of homeland security has been warning that white supremacist extremists will remain the most persistent and lethal threat to our country and january 6 was not the first time we saw a federal building violently attacked with deadly consequences from the oklahoma city bombing in 1995 to the unite the right rally in charlottesville in 2017 to the pipe bomber threats in 2018 to the kidnapping threats against michigan governor gretchen whitmer and virginia governor ralph northrup in 2020 and finally that horrific attack on the capital in the final days of the trump presidency it is clear that violent domestic extremism has stepped out of america's shadows and into our political spotlight nbc news correspondent morgan radford and producer aaron franco have been reporting on this issue for years covering white nationalist candidates running for office to hate groups like the kkk as well as new extremists on the far left and you're about to see morgan's deeper look at what's behind all of it a bit of a warning here some of the video and language may be quite disturbing to some viewers the images have become all too familiar a burst of violence then fear i'm running into harm's way that's why i have my resume and then chaos at least 18 people have been killed it's a formula for terror public attacks we see and many we don't preparing to kidnap and possibly kill me more than 200 attacks and plots in the past six years spread out over 42 states the number of plots and attacks are at the highest level we've ever seen i don't know whether we've seen the worst of it we sure have not seen the last of it and while many were from far left and jihadist groups the vast majority were committed by the far right nearly 60 percent a percentage that surged even higher in the last six years right-wing extremism has entered a frightening new phase in this country the fbi now calling lone wolf attacks from violent extremists the nation's greatest threat but are they isolated incidents or part of a bigger trend to find out we traveled the country speaking with experts militia members former members of extremist groups and those who still have ties to them and one thing became clear the idea that the capital attack was not just possible but predictable did you know anyone who was there at the january 6 riot yes i was at parties with these people i interviewed one of these people into his first hate group samantha knows the face of far-right extremism better than most so we're in south carolina is this where you were radicalized she knows because that face was her own i did not think i was racist i thought that i saw a truth that no one else did were you racist absolutely samantha asks that her last name not be used to protect her safety she was inducted into a white supremacist group called identity europa nearly four years ago after her boyfriend had been radicalized online he had started saying some just strange things that i now know um are all far-right jokes and slogans but i confronted him and just point blank was like what is this what are all these phrases and he had said that he was a fascist and he didn't want to be with someone that didn't support that i was so desperate for his approval that i ended up choosing to try and understand it and i fell into the far right there she met some of the most prominent faces of the modern far right including richard spencer and the organizers of the charlottesville unite the right rally this is the type of awful thing about propaganda they would get books written by or about jewish people and burn them and the whole concept behind it was to stop anyone else from having to read jewish propaganda but yeah it was it was a book burning before splitting apart in 2019 identity europa was one of the most active groups in the far right their goal to be mainstream avoiding recognizable racist images and instead using ambiguous talking points about white identity so once you're inside and once you enter this movement what were the views of the people around you did they believe that immigration was okay no did they believe that black people were as intelligent as white people absolutely not do they believe in the holocaust you're kind of softballed on all these topics um and by the end if all these things were correctly then absolutely no immigration but like the race iq theory is real holocaust absolutely never happened but hitler was just a compassionate and empathetic person who just wanted to take care of his people wow dylan roof the mass murder was a saint segregation is an absolute ideal i think what's so shocking about this movement in today's day and age is here you are you know have your wits about you how do you end up in this space i think part of the reason i decided to speak up was because there are so many high-ranking people in this movement there were more hoods they were slacks they were emts they were lawyers they were doctors they were your neighbors they were your family members still believing in all of this stuff and i think that is what makes all of this so dangerous and so it's just terrifying you can't spot the white nationalist anymore when heather heyer was killed by a white supremacist in charlottesville samantha began to have doubts two months later her grandmother died a woman born in germany and forced to be a member of the hitler youth as a child how did she feel about you joining the violent alt-right she knew exactly what it was as soon as i presented it to her she called me out and just said you know that is nazism what you think you're doing is nazism now samantha uses her experience to help others through a project called future freedom an online platform for those on the inside who want to get out this is a problem that i think is reaching every living room of every house every laptop of every computer in the country and i don't want there to be a world where there are x amount more of me's that went through it and have no idea how they fell for that no one needs this trauma it's a trauma that only appears to be spreading extremism experts at the anti-defamation league say white supremacist propaganda is now at the highest level ever recorded and it's reaching people in new ways one recent study found that between 2005 and 2010 just under 27 of lone wolf extremists were radicalized online in some way by 2016 that number was more than 73 percent what has changed in the last 20 years is that it has broadened its appeal by in a sense reinventing itself around more polite seemingly innocuous language what you will see are things like white pride celebrating european heritage but if you dig into it it's the same old racist ideology it's just been repackaged a transformation that sometimes takes a winding road chester doles is running for a county commissioner seat in lumpkin county georgia about an hour north of atlanta he's also fundraising in support of candidates he believes share his values i'm running on a maga candidate platform there's a tidal wave of maga candidates are going to rise up in 2022. what are your top three issues my top three issues would be pro-life pro-gun pro wall when he was younger he was a leader in the ku klux klan and a member of a neo-nazi group stand back stand by now he says that's all in the past when did you come out and renounce racism because i know you did that in the past 2019 several times in 2020 but whatever banner i might have been fighting under the enemy had always been the same left-wing radical left-wing radicals you know socialistic but the ku klux klan isn't against leftist radicals they're against black people jews what do you believe now that you didn't believe then like i said it just depends on who's looking at it when i've ever read anything like that seemed like they were just pro heritage the ku klux klan but well in some forms but i'm not here to defend them it was 28 years ago and i will not spend one more day from i did this last year no more apologies get over it publicly disavowed by candidates at the federal level including congresswoman marjorie taylor greene and former senator kelly lefler he's since thrown his support behind a new slate of candidates some of them from diverse backgrounds but many still question whether dole's has changed at all i know that you had come out and denounced racism but when i was looking at social media you would put this picture here saying that jovi val was coming to speak at one of your rallies here and then this is him jovi val with a racist and i mean this is a nazi hand gesture and then he posted here get in we're hunting juden so he's talking about jews and that's him at your platform do you think that's someone who's a white supremacist you know i don't i wouldn't call him a white supremacist i think uh jovi's got some issues i didn't know he was that quite that extreme that was posted before you invited him when you invited him and said you were bringing him here he had already posted those things yeah well joby was dived a lot with the maggot i wasn't aware of any of his other street activism but what about like on your social media these are the people following you with swastikas and white power signs why are these people attracted to you and your platform don't know maybe they're good people you know as far as being good american citizens and stuff but uh can you be a good person a good american citizen with a swastika on white power i don't look into people's personal you know what they're all about what about this one i saw you posted just recently this year you were posting about valentine's day stickers and you showed 1488. oh god forbid what does that mean i don't know you don't know what 1488 means all that time and in the clan and reading these white supremacists 1488 means nothing to you is it a coincidence that it's a white supremacist it must be he knows exactly what it means jonathan greenblatt is an extremism expert with the anti-defamation league the number 14 refers to what they describe as the 14 words which is kind of a white supremacist maxim and eight eight refers to the letter h right it's the it's the eighth letter of the alphabet and hh means heil hitler doles is no longer a member of the clan so is it fair to still label him a white supremacist or an extremist adl has been tracking doles and other white supremacists for years and this is something that they do morgan so white supremacists often use this ethos of quote plausible deniability with a wink and a nod will signal to white supremacists but look at let's say the mainstream media and say but i'm not one of them anymore it's a denial and a movement that leads some to take matters into their own hands this is the nfac an all-black militia with a mission to defend the black community by any means necessary so this is training for one of the new chapters yes appearing by the hundreds at protests from stone mountain georgia to louisville kentucky they demand justice for police killings of unarmed black citizens and counter what they believe is the threat of right-wing militias it's a movement started in 2017 by this man former musician and army veteran john grandmaster j johnson is the movement growing by leaps and bounds we met with him outside of cincinnati where he says another new chapter is now in the works the nfac stands for the not effing around coalition what's behind the name the nfac was born out of the last four years under the trump administration the deterioration of racial relations in this country it means that you're preparing yourself to defend yourselves by any means necessary is violence an option to reach your goals the united states was built on violence being an option violence should be the last option extremism experts say the group is distinct from far-right militias with a record of coordinating with police and avoiding violence when you talk about january 6 and we saw those rioters stormed the capitol what do you say to critics who say you're no different from them they're extremists you're extremist show me where we have done those things they've killed people they've disrespected the government to the point where they have invaded its sacred halls show me where we've done those things because we have done none of them we were allowed rare access to a training site of a chapter at a secret location in rural georgia we are now driving to the nfac training facility we spoke to one member who only gave us a code name shot to protect your anonymity why did you decide to join this movement it's for the cause black people we need to learn how to defenders this is definitely one way to do it do you all i mean have normal jobs you work for all different sectors absolutely we're business owners we're doctors lawyers we're your everyday person anywhere from walmart to the corporate sector what are you all training for we're training for self-defense we have all these different groups those who are far right extremists those who are combating the far-right extremists and then people who are trying to help de-radicalize young people online how does this country begin to solve this problem there is no silver bullet that will solve the problem of extremism we actually need not just the full force of government we need a whole of society strategy if we hope to tackle this tackle a problem that may only be getting worse i mean and some of us will stand to the end to defending american values and family values i think the enthusiasm that was so overwhelming on january 6 was because people seen it as our last this is it trump's going we're done is that what you think yeah what do you think those rioters thought they were doing i think they all thought that they were revolutionaries that they were going to bring justice and the truth out to the country i know what that feels like i felt that too you thought you were the last stand the whole western civilization a civilization that some are afraid will leave them behind and morgan radford joins me now along with former special agent for the bureau of alcohol tobacco firearms and explosive jim kavanaugh who helped investigate and sometimes negotiate with some of the most infamous violent domestic extremists uh in this country over the span of more than three decades morgan um a tremendous piece uh in some ways there's a lot to unpack here but i just want to start with your first character in your piece samantha is she gonna you know when when you join this and she's left it it how much of this past of hers is still haunting her i think it still haunts her you heard her say no one deserves this trauma i mean she acknowledges that this was an incredibly difficult portion of her life but that's why she's worked so hard to help de-radicalize people and one of the things samantha really taught us is that a lot of these people chuck are attracted to this extremist ideology because it's personal it gives them a place to feel like they belong and she speaks very openly about how when these people are going online and they're searching for answers or ultimately they're searching for connection they're finding that these far right often extremist groups are there with open arms and that's how they're getting caught did samantha did you morgan did you get a sense that samantha there was a time where she felt good about what she was doing because she had this community absolutely she's very honest about that she says that initially part of what attracted her to this movement was because they told her that she was okay just the way that she was and she says she liked their approach to femininity that they said that you can be a traditional woman and hold traditional values and have a traditional role and that that is okay so don't pay attention to what society tells you about that not being okay because we are here to assure you that who you are and what we collectively are doing is right and so she said that's initially what attracted her but then obviously she came to a point where she said this is absolutely wrong because how can i be in this space that says i'm okay but all of these other groups of people are not and morgan there was something about chester doles that looked awfully familiar to any of us that have followed or reported on um white supremacy and all they say you know he sort of you hate to say that you need to put it this way but he kind of looked the part here and um he's not happy uh with the reporting we've been doing you've been hearing from him and i think one thing to point out chuck is that i honestly don't think that when it comes to this extremist movement there is such a thing right now as looking the part because one of the things that you understand is that you know as samantha said that a lot of people they don't have hoods right they have slacks they have signals and haircuts and they've made this movement seemingly very innocuous and that's how it's infiltrated politics right from from the highest levels and so with with chester for example i mean what you hear is this belief that people on the far right believe that they are the last stand of western civilization he told me very clearly that he felt the 1950s were a more wholesome time when i pointed out that that wasn't a more wholesome time for my family and people who look like me he said well you know that happens but for him he felt like it was and even in anticipation of this interview airing i have to say he sent chester dole sent a message a text message to my producer aaron franco and and he wrote that i was a marxist reporter i was a dangerous mouthpiece of the biden administration and that quote if trump comes back she will be remembered she is definitely the enemy in our eyes and what you understand from that chuck is anyone who reports on this knows that that is not even a thinly veiled threat because what he talked about in our interview was the day of the rope it is based on this maxim within white supremacist ideology that there will come a day when journalists and politicians and people who are others people who they don't like people of color people who are homosexual will be hung they will be executed on the day of the rope and so he's making a clear connection to the fact that when he believes trump comes in office he will have a guy he will have someone who believes according to him and the values that he espouses and that people like me who bring his feelings to light will be in trouble jim uh in your experience how many chesters are in this movement and how many samantha's are in this movement the reason i say this is you know how many people can be rescued like samantha and how many people are probably beyond rescuing like chester well unfortunately there's a lot of chesters uh who try to hide their white supremacy beliefs and use code words and try to talk around it and be the new alt-right but there's always a lot of people like samantha and you can see the contrast here samantha is a person as morgan described in this great report who was radicalized but realized uh what it was and got out and truly once got out and renounced it and now you know has a chance for a normal life to become a good citizen and where chester is still embracing it apparently using 1488 you know the 14 words uh from robert matthews of the order you know about securing a future for white children and 88 which is the symbol for heil hitler so that's not renouncing anything that's still being a member of that belief um and the day of the rope that's from the turner diaries which is a white supremacist screed written by a national alliance leader named william pierce that was the book that timothy mcveigh acted upon uh in his uh bombing of the oklahoma city federal building the turner diaries that's a screed that is in white supremacy circle so he's he's quoting from in his communicate with morgan uh the turner diaries and the day of the rope and that's why they want to hang all their enemies uh you know all their enemies which they hate you know black people jewish people brown people catholics government officials you know everybody but them and uh you know that they deeply held beliefs so we have a huge problem in america and it's unbelievable that we've come to it i want to get to the issue of we saw the last person the the the gentleman grandmaster j that started what he believes is essentially i guess an answer to this but he views it hey look violence it's a last resort but it is a resort jim is this just an inevitable response to this right-wing violence well it's happened before i mean we've had clashes with the communist party in the clan 42 years ago in greensboro north carolina 1979 communist party members were holding a death to the klan rally and klansmen and neo-nazis arrived they killed five of the protesters from the communist party and wounded another ten in a big shootout on the street uh these are two opposing groups clashing so you know that could certainly come to pass this nfac coalition uh you know is like a militia but they have not been uh they have individual members who may have been involved in crimes i think the leader has some charges pending but they haven't as a unit committing any grave crimes but what we've seen across the country is that we've loosened these gun laws so much that we have these militiamen in michigan standing at the capitol with rifles we have everybody showing up at demonstrations you know slung with their bandolaros and rifles and eventually you're going to have opposing groups and you know you might have uh the police in the middle it's a scenario that's really just a recipe for disaster uh and eventually you know we're gonna have to face it that's what it feels like morgan radford terrific reporting jim cavanaugh as always your expertise and context and all this uh is quite important um really appreciate the time you gave me on our podcast too and i encourage folks listen to our podcast jim's got a lot more to say on this thank you both when we come back democracy is ours if we can keep it welcome back this year we've seen the united states capital attacked not once but twice and even at a city that's used to lockdowns and national security warnings this moment in time feels different tensions are high and politicians sadly seem eager to join the grievance chorus rather than try to find solutions to our problems the country is more divided against itself than at any time since the 1960s and maybe before that the extremism and violence on the right is only one symptom politicians are always telling us there's more that unites us than divides us that may still be true but the divisions are easier to see right now but like most things in history periods like this are cyclical and so our democratic experiment in self-governance has weathered tests before tests like the one we are in the middle of right now during the civil war our better angels eventually as lincoln said prevailed after the gilded age our leaders responded to inequity by lifting some of the forgotten out of poverty during mccarthyism we pulled ourselves back from the brink and again in the civil rights era the federal government stepped in to try to write our collective wrongs this current test is not yet over we don't know if we will get a passing grade this great experiment of democracy is still that an experiment and sadly as we know many experiments do fail this patchwork multi-racial multi-ethnic melting pot of a democratic republic is ours for now if we can keep it that's all we have time for uh for this episode of meet the press reports thank you for watching as we kicked off season two and we look forward to you coming back for our next episode and another deep dive this time on cyber security as the most powerful nation in the world pours money into offense private companies and taxpayers are mostly left to defend themselves so i'll see you again right here on peacock and on sundays on meet the press [Music] hey thanks for watching our youtube channel follow today's top stories and breaking news by downloading the nbc news app you

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Keywords: Meet the Press, nbc news, news, breaking news, us news, world news, politics, nightly news, current events, top stories, pop culture, mtp, mtp daily, chuck todd, trump, gop, republicans, democrats, chuck, todd, Domestic Extremism, Oklahoma City bombing, anti mask protests, Gretchen Whitmer kidnapping, Jan. 6th Capitol attack, violent extremism, grievance politics, nationalism, inclination, political spectrum, law enforcement, national security, Gretchen Whitmer, Capitol attack

Id: 23ZpMaOg-m8

Length: 27min 41sec (1661 seconds)

Published: Tue Apr 13 2021