Do Roguelikes Require More Skill or More Luck? (8 Games Analyzed)

so a couple months back i saw this chart summon made on reddit essentially this user categorized many roguelike games as requiring more skill or luck i'm a big fan of roguelike games so i thought might as well do one too however before i go any further i should outline how i'm going to evaluate the games i'm going to rate now i'm not a hardcore gamer or anything so i'm only going to raid eight roguelikes that i have personally played also i'm aware that for some of these games you really have to play for almost hundreds of hours to fully understand them now obviously i don't have hundreds of hours on all of these games that's just not very feasible now also this video is not a review on any games it's just an idea that i thought of and i thought it would be pretty fun to make but before i go any further according to youtube statistics 100 of the viewers that watch my videos are subscribed to me thank you all right let's begin so i'm going to change up the original rating scheme slightly now since skill and lock are not mutually exclusive things aka a game can require both skill and luck i'm going to use a scale of 1 through 10 for both of these two factors a 1 in skill means anyone can pick it up and have fun and a 10 means the game is dark souls now i'm going to need to clarify this next bit because i know there will be a lot of confusion i'm defining luck as something more akin to randomness or variability not a way to downplay a player's abilities to play the game in other words just because if i give a high luck rating to a game it's not a bad thing in fact it's a good thing see a defining feature of the roguelike genre is that no two runs will be identical it's how your experience as a player can be different even though you're playing the same game over and over again and with that a lock rating of 1 means that runs will be very similar to each other and a 10 means you might as well be playing a different game after each run altogether however here is another twist in order to create drama and tension i cannot give the same skill or luck rating to two different games so every single game will have a different rating to keep things interesting and i like it when things are interesting like i said i'm not a hardcore gamer or anything so feel free to give your own opinions in the comments but let's be real here the majority of comments on this video would just be people justifying how their favorite roguelike requires the most amount of skill without further ado let's get started so me and binding of isaac go all the way back i actually first played the wrath of the lamb dlc when i was in elementary school which i believe was all the way back in 2012. there's a reason why this game is so influential in the roguelike industry up until repentance the latest dlc it's gone through continuous variations and improvements that's why it's one of the most well-known games in the genre i actually have more hours in isaac than dead cells and i'm still working on the tainted characters a big part of what makes binding of isaac fun is its huge pool of items with hundreds of possible combinations you can literally have unlimited possibilities in a run however binding of isaac is one of the few roguelikes i know that actually have items that can make your run worse in fact a select few in the game can just instantly kill your run altogether now i have to admit there's definitely skill involved when it comes to playing this game such as not taking red health damage on the second floor and it guarantees you a devil deal some players are so good they can essentially have over 100 win streak while playing as eden however one cannot deny that luck also plays a factor since there is a hidden rarity system in item pools some runs will actually be significantly easier than others it's because of this rarity system that keeps things interesting you never know when you're going to end up with a mom's knife or a cursed eye now given that the bulk of the outcomes of runs depend on what items you get you don't really have that much control when it comes to builds however there is enough meaningful decision making that can impact your run so not everything in your game is determined by randomness unless you're playing tainted lost of course in that case your run is pretty much completely down to chance and while i understand that the lack of item descriptions is part of the old school gaming feel but these days you really want players to know what you're picking up and honestly i think this is just kind of like a quality of life improvement that the game needs thankfully there are mods that do that memorizing the functions of the hundreds of items in the game does not make you skilled at it it just means you should probably go outside i didn't ask to be telefragged by delirium and i certainly did not ask for the donation machine to jam on the third penny but you know that's on me on my scale issue so i give binding of isaac a luck rating of 6 and a skill rating of 4. slay the spire is known to be the most influential card roguelike to hit the genre with 4 different classes and hundreds of cards there are a lot of ways to mix and match your way to victory once you beat the game there are modifiers known as ascensions that can further add difficulty to your runs until you've stacked all the way to ascension 20. i've won with all characters at least once this includes going to the final ending and i've done some ascension gameplay as well so far ironclad is my favorite class to play however here is where slade aspire differs itself quite drastically from the other games on this list there is no mechanical gameplay the majority of your skills improve upon gaining knowledge on the cards and see how each of them interact with another and that's totally fine in fact there are actually different strategies for different ascension levels for example it's actually better to have a deck with more cards on higher ascensions to minimize your chances of drawing into a sender's bane so there is a degree of complexity when it comes to deck building but like i said the game lacks mechanical gameplay in any of the other games on this list if you theoretically go to the final boss with nothing but the starter equipment it's technically possible to win i'm looking at hades dead cells gungeon to name a few of them but in slave the spire you have a zero percent chance of winning if you go to the third boss with the starting cards you will absolutely get annihilated just like binding of isaac there is rarity when it comes to cards so no two runs will contain the same deck some aren't good at all and some single-handedly win you the run if you get corruption as ironclad then you basically just won however there is an aspect that can cause you to lose the run no matter what that comes from not being able to pick which bots you fight now this isn't bad on earlier bosses but the third level boss specifically differs from each other drastically for example if you get a deck that abuses an infinite combo and you find out that you're going to find a boss that limits how many cards you can play in a row then you're going to lose that run now you didn't choose to fight this boss so losing in this matter after discovering an interesting combo just feels kind of bad overall though slate the spider is still a pretty enjoyable game i gave slay the spire a luck rating of 8 and a skill rating of 3. enter the gungeon is a twin stick shooter bullet hell roguelike with an emphasis on dodge rolling now this is probably one of the few roguelikes where luck matters just as much as skill there is a tier system when it comes to item quality in chests but it's balanced in a way that really doesn't matter what items you get as far as i know none of the tier items can really give you a free win for example the yori launcher is an exceptional boss killing weapon but it has really low ammo you'll probably run out entirely after one boss fight on the other hand although the kc baseball bat is a d-tier item it is extremely overpowered also the game barely gives you any resources in the late game and you must pick up the item drops in the same room you found it in otherwise the resource rat takes it this makes ammo and resource management really important unlike binding of isaac every item and gun are pretty much guaranteed to be helpful there's almost never instances where you choose not to take an item since you can swap out guns at any time it really tests your abilities to think on your feet and makes you choose the best combinations for each encounter and for that reason i think into the gungeon has one of the highest skill ceilings out of any roguelike i gave gungeon a luck rating of 4 and a skill rating of 9. risk of rain 2 is a 3rd person looter shooter roguelike with a very unique timer mechanic now this game also has a tier system when it comes to item drops but honestly this item rarity system has probably one of the highest discrepancies between a rare item and a non-rare item see in order to make it far in your runs the best builds out there does not just have damage dealing items but also a combination of mobility and defense upgrades so the game is never really one-dimensional and i can see why it's beloved as one of the best games in the genre now i don't have that much experience in this game but i hear that it's very important to find an item that can mitigate a survivor's weak point since getting a double jump is pretty much a must for the end game plus there are item stance that lets you choose between three different items as well as scrap stations that can manipulate your build however like i said there seems to be a huge discrepancy between rare and common items if you get a legendary or a lunar item you're pretty much guaranteed to make it further into the run they're just that powerful at least according to my discord server which everybody knows that along with reddit has the most reliable information on anything video game related with that i give risk of rain 2 a luck rating of 7 and a skill rating of 5. hades is a isometric hack and slash roguelike where you try to escape health and it's a pretty straightforward game now this is one of the recent roguelikes that i noticed that it handles difficulty very well as you improve as a player you also get better upgrades i never really had any problems when it came to hades once you reach a certain point at around i don't know 10 to 20 hours you'll eventually beat the game i actually think hades contains less skill than some of the other games on this list if this video contained a story rating then hades will be at a 10. i think it does something really unique among other roguelikes now my ratings don't factor in story elements but this is something that i think people should be aware of the room layouts are pretty much set more or less and there are ways to manipulate your boons which are the upgrades it's actually not too difficult to fish for the specific upgrades you're looking for for example if you get poor quality boons you can always try to get the diameter keepsake and fish for rare crop which upgrades the rarity of your other boons with how accessible everything is there's a reason why it got extremely high praise last year when it came out even after beating the game for the first time there is the pact of punishment which is a way to test your skills at the game and it's also pretty straightforward now i realized you can technically break the game and max out the heat gauge to make the game borderline impossible to beat but there's no incentive to go past 20 heat since 20 heat is the last level of heat before you stop getting bounties there's really no reason to go past 20 unless you purposely want to challenge yourself if you put it that way i don't think hades is as hard as some of the other games on this list but the story and the atmosphere and the music was very much enjoyable i give hades a luck rating of 2 and a skill rating of 6. nuclear throne is a very classic arcade type twin stick shooter the mechanics are quite simple and there's really not any explanations you need to know before embarking on a run i should say that this game is very hard although a typical run only lasts around 10 minutes assuming that you win you can die really easily in fact explosions just straight up one shots you there are a lot of colorful characters that you can play as each with their own perks and 5 categories of weapons you can find in the run now what's weird is that within the community there is no objectively best build or character and i think this is how nuclear throne benefits from being a very simple game some people think crystal's shield ability is overpowered but i prefer a more offensive play style some think the roll ability for fish is useless but for me fish is my favorite character in the game something recycle clan sucks in the late game meanwhile my longest loops always contain recycle clean some players can loop endlessly with explosive weapons while i personally can't stand them in the community no one can agree on anything and for me that's a good thing it just means that every strategy is viable to put it into perspective nuclear throne in my opinion is one of the most skill oriented games in the genre and there's really no end on how much you can improve even after a couple hundred hours of play time and with that i give nuclear throne a lock rating of one and a skill rating of 10. one step from eden is more of a personal pick it's definitely not as popular as some of the other games i could have picked noida or crypt of the necrodancer but i don't have nearly as many hours in those games than i do this one and there's something about one step from eden that really stuck out to me similarly to slay the spire you build a deck of cards that you can use in combat however you can move around these different tiles while managing your deck and you win by using your cards in a way that best suits your strategy maybe by lining up a row of fire or by placing down a turret and moving them up or down to set its sights on the enemy given that it's a smaller game there were some balancing issues that i found and i also figured that some builds were just strictly better than others when things get too hectic you really don't have the time to think about what order you play your cards in you're just going to mash buttons and hope for the best now how this game differs from slave aspire is that there is mechanical gameplay if you have a background in touhou project and you're a god at bullet health you can technically beat the game with only the starting deck with so many categories of spells available there's almost no end to synergies you can have being that it's a pretty underrated game i definitely recommend people to try it out i'll give one step from eden a luck rating of 5 and a skill rating of 7. ah that sells my bread and butter this game is known to be very difficult but i don't think it's the hardest game on this list what differentiates dead cells with some other roguelikes is that there's no tier system when it comes to weapons and skills all items have equal chances of appearing and that is one of the primary reasons i find it to be such a joy to play you can form synergies in any combination of items and think of ways to play the game that no one has thought of before now difficulty in dead cells is handled via the boss cell system although each level of bossel makes the game harder it also unlocks more content all the way up until 5 bc where there is literally an additional biome as well as a boss fight at the end of the game so there's always a meaningful reason to improve now since 5bc is the only way to obtain the final ending it is intended by the developers that you improve enough to get to this point and honestly it's one of the best games to give you motivation to keep improving if you want reasons why this game is so great just look at my channel and with that i give dead cells a luck rating of 3 and a skill rating of 8. so finally here is my list feel free to give any insights of your own or recommend any roguelikes you think are worth trying out obviously i had to rethink my ratings quite a bit since i couldn't give the same ratings to two different games but i thought this is a fair comparison and i had a lot of fun putting this together again feel free to put your own list in the comments thank you all for watching and i'll see you all next time

Channel: Pseychie

Views: 823,720

Keywords: dead cells, dead cells guides, dead cells tier list, dead cells gameplay, dead cells 2bc tips, dead cells 5bc, roguelike, roguelikes, hades, nuclear throne, enter the gungeon, binding of isaac, binding of isaac repentance, one step from eden, slay the spire

Id: sKbJ0WFW6PM

Length: 16min 9sec (969 seconds)

Published: Tue Dec 28 2021

Reddit Comments

[u/FLRerik]

I feel like the guy doesen't motivate his points enough to warrant calling some games "mostly luck".

[u/JSConrad45]

I haven't been able to watch it yet but the accusation that Binding of Isaac is dependent on luck is a pet peeve of mine. It's not -- you just have to know how to manipulate the currency.

Which also goes for most roguelikes in general and all non-action roguelikes, almost all the way back (and I say "almost" only because Rogue could generate a literally unwinnable scenario)