Do British Muslims have a problem with apostates? The Big Questions

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well apostasy posh word for giving up religion or faith abandoning your faith mainly used by believers to describe those who have renounced their beliefs for atheism or to convert to another faith well in Islam they'd also covered anyone who denies a fundamental tenet or Creed even agreeing that man evolved from animals a human evolution on so forth and it it also covers anyone who's a mocked Allah or questioned Sharia law now one extreme punishable by death in some countries and imprisonment in others now in Sharia civil law apostates may have their marriage as a null lose the rights to their children lose their property and be shunned by their families even the UK where everyone has the right to freedom of religion X Muslims say that they've been made to suffer for announcing their beliefs subdue British Muslims have a problem with apostates well Amal why did you leave they were why did you leave Islam I got educated and I didn't agree with the Quran being the revelation of God and Mohammed a perfect embodiment in fact I felt it was a questionable moral guidance and that couldn't be applied to the 21st century those ideas mark you out as an apostate and because of that you face being rejected by your family the community and you face being called names like apostate and tip names like kaffir mert edge so what has that been like for you it has been is it has been difficult because you are you know you grow up with a family and just because you have ideological divide you know you decide that you don't believe in the Quran and does does that mean that you don't want to be with your family that's what that's particular families all families different development this I'm talking about the context of a devout Muslim family in a devout Muslim community there's a common experience do you think I think it is a common experience for individuals that come from that come from devout families and living devout communities if Islam to have a community of believers that strongly believe Alma yeah the Ummah that believe that the Quran is the literal word of God and Muhammad supposed perfect embodiment it cannot tolerate any form of dissent so you are rejected you are threatened with potential violence for breaking with this love you be I have been yes and I have been I'm estranged from my family because it has there was no no way my family was going to accept that there are hotheads and idiots in every rakah felt well this this is the thing we the headlines are grabbed by the you know the so called jihadist the people who carry out vigilante violence but what is and what we're missing is the conservatives who sit behind that the many Muslims who believe in that backward ideology and Arthur believe in that backward ideology and even though they might not carry out violence they will approve of it and they do call your names like I said like Motel ok and that they don't Sharia terminologies well listen carry the capital punishment that's about in 23 countries across the world as part of the Penal Code let's get up Diller let's get this sorted out let's let's sort it out once and for all you know when all Sharia conditions apply in a perfect Sharia state should apostasy be a criminal offense yes on it well here we are again another groundbreaking Islam is evil bad discussion but and so on and I think it's been done it's been done to death unfortunately and before we go any further could you just clarify but I mean I could say that I've never done has to see my short yeah I well I could say I've done I became Muslim because I was educated why just because I don't think it's wrong to say just I became educate us why I left the stock please please please can we just establish the ground rules on this it's a straight question then we'll move on to the other issues because it's fascinating cuz 23 countries across the world send a penal code when all Sharia conditions apply in a perfect Sharia state should apostasy be a criminal offense I don't accept the Victorian translation between an era translation of if the dark hey no no no I don't think that I don't know I don't accept that that there is no a pause to see Lauren in Islam I'm falling class cool that's what I'm signing is killed these are apostasy laws around the world so that there is something going on in post-colonial secular secular States post-colonial state lying you would the Sharia and I say that I reject the the even idea of there being a apostasy law in Islam in the first place and they ask you one more time let's clarify first of all wrong trend why does it pasta si mean to you then well I positive a pasta linked by English pasta just means changing your mind whereas in Islam if the dial be best translated sedition or treason all right which I saw some states have seen this treasonous addition to actually leave the religion let me ask you one more thing then we'll throw it into the mix with everyone else I mean you you shared platforms with this London Imam I hate them all had dad who says that female genital mutilation is obligatory he supports wife-beating sports gays being killed and he has said that apostates should be killed and that their blood is halal that deed is shown this disgusting bigot well and well first and foremost I share I share platforms of atheists Christians Jews even just antics I saw one delenn don't you know wasting weights it wasn't just say I think what is on I think what is unfair is I could be Dec this entire audience out with Muslim people become Muslim who have been ostracized by their family disowned this disgust Africa threatened abused by their parents for becoming Muslim they've had to spend the night in mosques because their parents have had to discern this disgusting bigot Nicki will never answer that question because look he believes looking a concept of treatment no no I believe in the concept of a the concert if you're gonna talk about someone invite them and let them speak for themselves my money he'll talk about is what he said I'm only here to talk about idea sir I'm not in position cause I'm not your Inquisition for bad - well well well firstly bring him the sharing ring ring hey from her dad and let him defend himself is on the record but is what you see Jesus suit this Inquisition Court you're gonna set up to say do you condemn Nestle to the deacon then I won't so you're on here but you're not going to express any opinion seems like a waste of time know about ideas not about people about me but I'm not I'm not anyone's lawyer it's the idea of female genital mutilation a good or a bad idea or female genital mutilation I disagree very strongly good so you can say that you disagree I felt you think it's disgusting bigot is that issue you asked me about Hatem had that not FGM but he said he said it's really legacy I can't give you my aunt about FGM summer son what's my day when I invite him all I asked you to agree whether he supports wife beat his boss wife beating killing gays you think so you say he said no yes he does if you've seen here it's no no okay you don't you don't you don't decide misawa Hasan it's like turning your back on your family though isn't it some people see it as the ultimate treachery yeah unfortunately I've heard many stories like imel's although attitudes are changing in younger misen generation some of them but we have to be honest about the history with some people leaving Islam and only something that there was a vibrant debate about it where some believes your freedom of religion other saw it as treason and that's when this capital punishment introduced in ancient and medieval Islamic law unfortunately became the norm in the books the idea that you would be killed because it was seen as treason and that carried on into this age where you have the laws that you talked about so in Saudi Arabia recently for example you know there's a young man being sentenced to death because he dishonored the the current in public al Qaeda and is in Syria in Iraq have executed 13 year olds accusing them of apostasy and blasphemy this is a serious problem and the obturation answer the question you know simply what about my dad about this to that do you regard it as treason do you believe in freedom of religion should should Muslims have the freedom to convert to other religions to live their faith just as others have the freedom to convert to Islam or should they be killed if they do that it's a serious question for the modern age well well I was asked a question I said it at the dock asking a that sedition and treason but people with in Islamic theology ultimately choose which belief day they take in this world whether they want to accept Islam or reject Islam yeah but but but but this discussion is do patience okay now um I'll come in in a minute I'm always it was it's ridiculous it was made clear to me and growing up as a Muslim as being somebody who is born to a Muslim family you have no choice other than to remain as a Muslim that is that was amazing there to making are alined don't blame Islam no a tip for your into knowing that I blame Mohammed okay I blame Mohammed I didn't because the ridiculous argument that we're having about listen is just ridiculous you very much love my the last a minute note Nick let me I'll come to you in a second gone even smoke a problem nation which is why there is a division in in in the Muslim community is because it goes down it goes back to the founding person of Islam Mohammed now it's true no it's true it doesn't say specifically in the Koran to kill people who leave Islam however wait wait it's sort of tiny it's that way to rate every one to two to five six there should be no compulsion yes but religious yes but let's it says that but Nick let's put it in context let's put in context there in Islam religion esprit de corps the revelation of the Quran there is something called a mekin period when Mohammed was a minority and he was all peaceful and turned the other cheek and then there was when he went to Medina and he formed an Islamic state and he is quoted in the hadith books where he says whoever changes his religion killed him and this is where Isis Arabia how must be Islamic what refer to that I want you to question a Muslim story the thing you're let me just let me just come back in that I think the important thing is that we believe in religious freedom people are free to leave Islam actually the the evidence is that the the traffic is the other way around more more people are coming into Islam no-no-no phenophase inspected your right to have your cell I hope you shouldn't show some respect to me as well the problem with people like a mall and other ex-muslims is they spend their time after leaving Islam demonizing and attacking ok listen wait wait wait wait ok I'm Victor let me ask you a questions I made you said that they said it very clear I'll say question when you talk about demonizing of course you were involved recently at the center of this campaign against margin there was when he tweeted the Jesus and Mo cartoon you tweeted goofs tacky Russell it went all over the world that means the Famer of the Prophet that that was a clear message I missed in a classical motion wait wait let me ask that was a clear message you knew what you were doing here that's it killed and oh no I did sir I'm sorry that's I'm sorry lady his native Pakistan travels for visiting work the punishment which is death and you've tweeted that sorry sir I fear let me let me answer I let me say that at that time there was some very strong held views by me and so let me just make the point before you interrupt me but I held views I said things and did things which I regret in the heat of the moment but what I don't regret is standing up for the honor of our prophet and as Muslims we honor our prophet there's a death penalty in Pakistan I I'm sorry Stan key resolve Nicky did the suggestion which has been put out by atheists and humanists and supporters imagina was the right somehow endorsed the violence I'd allow endorse these death ray you try like I did no in fact it's one of the time whatever time is left wait everybody else why not show me what would you award you with the city shows matters partner your partner's Muslim isn't it man come yet yes years and he would be horrified by your slipperiness and he would be horrified by your hypocrisy you tweeted that you were going to inform Islamic countries that Maajid Nawaz had committed this crime for which you use the odo which is a crime punishable by death in Pakistan what sweet it and that you would inform Islamic countries of what you know as it is that not an insight resort to violence to this person before I'm sorry I request suddenly half penalty something this seems to be a witch hunt against certain individuals who come onto the program it is not this is how this is think anybody's gonna come sometimes count and Countess of X Muslims this look I really common I'm fine John cool Mohammed let Marvin answer listen and that's it wait till everyone unka let's have silence let's Mohammed Anson okay what's gonna have done I'm said already selling record and I said it again the heat of the moment things were said which I regret uh if I had a chance again and I said you would have not done that but I don't hide away from the fact that I want to defend my my faith I want to defend the honor of the Prophet and things were done in the heat of the moment but you know this is part of the problem if you want to have a rational debate about Islam and Muslims we have experts like the Council of X Muslims and if they spent less time demonizing Islam and Muslims people might be prepared to have a lot on her side wait I saw my house on sorry tip I just want to try and get everyone to get effect like a wicked only coming back to you can I just say I spoke into a lot of X Muslims and those have gone and come back a bit become agnostics and one of the biggest reasons why people become apostate in the first place is because they see a harsh and intolerant and mindless brainless version of Islam promoted all of the one in Philly in this country and the best way to all of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him the best way to honor the Prophet mark is upon him who is described as a mercy to the world is to embody mercy and compassion which is the fundamental message of the Quran and many of our coalition religionists have to understand that they don't defend the honor of the Prophet by becoming angry and corn for the death of blasphemers or infidels and apostates but it is actually buyer by ship they're showing mercy and compassion in fact they will often defame and dishonor the Prophet more Isis and al-qaeda in the hideout this matter dad what people present a harsh intolerant version of Islam they are defaming the Prophet and they are defaming Islam this is a you know Allah is most beneficent and most most merciful so even if somebody in a Sharia state leaves the religion they should be embraced as a fellow human being that's just humanity apart from being human rights that does happen doesn't it I'm saying yet ignorant ignorance defames that the flames of religion but the point to make is that people who asked are from non-muslim farmers English families they become Muslim they're called race traitor they are called terrorists they are abused so we see this actually happening across the board not just with Muslim so the fact that all religions are many right yoga picking on Muslims here is disingenuous and a connective of some law that has to of an Islamic state which we are not in an Islamic state is evidenced very absurd in the fact that not a single apostate in England has been killed that's good now so also why do we why do we keep bringing in this Sharia law matter but you we're not still positive but you understand why some people are don't know what to think about Islam or might be confused or or suspicious or worried about it do you understand those concerns when people say one thing very reasonably on TV on TV shows but quite a different thing on Twitter when people don't give straight answers to questions do you understand why somebody who perhaps doesn't know many ways I'm picking up from this point that that is absolutely true because the Islamists will never and in a platform like this will not come out and say be straight there is a concept I live Jim yeah I've answered the question we're not talking about how UTM you want to meet what here's here's the question answer for when all say I don't want condemn when all shady when all Sharia conditions apply in a perpetrator state should apostasy be a criminal offense and I said that I reject the the translation of policy it's inaccurate if the dog is translated as sedition and treason you way to repeat say again a third time and a fourth time you see why not fit those are the stereotype of the ranting the same okay here's the thing of course you know first of all yes of course lots of religions do things that aren't very nice and so and so does some people who aren't religious that's not the issue the issue is is there a particular you know is there a particular increased likelihood in Muslim communities that people who leave feel threatened feel afraid and also feel that they end up being ostracized from their family and their community and the answer overwhelmingly does seem to be yes it's a story that we hear a lot and it's an it you have no evidence for that at all whatsoever xx non-muslims to become Muslim and let them say their stories okay sounds like a good idea let's get some more in so I'll go across to universal good morning yeah um I'm a Muslim I'm a practicing Muslim and the lady the reasons that she gave for leaving Islam if people also give the same reasons for coming into a stage you need to understand that yeah okay and also when it comes to apostasy I'm I'm not educated as this these two guys well I'm a Muslim and I follow my lead until the best I can and I live in the West born and raised in Africa live in the West I don't see that I'm on a collision course with my faith and I followed her on your religion unto you and my return to me that's how I have friends who are Muslims and I gay I don't join the matter you more responsible for who I sleep with and I'm respond for my sins so when it comes to apostate when it comes to apostasy my understand opposites is not mentioned in the Quran however the Prophet I've mentioned has mentioned in a hadith say those who leave the region killed it I researched into this and my understanding is that this was said at the time when Islam was weak coming up yeah when people we had when the Jews and Christians and pagans we are coming into Islam just to live just to give the impression that Islam was not a religion worth falling so therefore this was said also fast forward into modern times I don't think any Muslim would sit today and say oh we need to kill this guy because obviously he's saying well you know these days we wouldn't kill apostates but you know when when when Islam wasn't so strong or some point in the future can be changed to say that there was ever an IRS conditions among it would be okay that is her if I think this is when Muslims who are in denial you should be very like this are the Muslims will be selectable and their recipe understanding of Islamic history there is after the Prophet Mohammed died or Mohammed died he's no prophet to me but once he when he died there is a whole Wars that al-bakr it's the I love a punch Ali really raises is called the more the the Wars of them the more Ted Wars or the apostate Wars where Muhammad sorry I'm a Bakr and Ali actually burned alive people that were accused of apostasy so Isis didn't you know consensus that's on it okay okay look Islamic tradition some Haditha accepted some aren't some are seen as dubious summer seen as genuine just on that theological point you're a theologian very quickly on that theological point as sama burning 11 Allah very quickly got to move on what we have these difficult traditions actually talking about killing apostates others saying no it's fine people who became Christians from from Islam became Jews etc and and who were left alone the apostate wars were also political wars because they were the rebellion as well so there's a there's an early discussion as to whether was about apostasy or whether about political rebellion against the United Arabia Muslim have to grapple with these difficult issues these are different issues in our traditions the Ottomans repealed the apostasy laws in mid 19th century hundred fifty years ago al-azhar in Egypt repealed you know killing apostate 5060 years ago and many Muslims don't know that many fundamentalist Muslim literalist want to bring that back and they're doing it right now in Syria in Iraq and Saudi Arabia and other places but Muslim have to have an honest discussion with the tradition and of course you can be educated and still be Muslim in a development slim thank you very much thank you um you you

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Channel: Quilliam International

Views: 746,239

Rating: 4.5869255 out of 5

Keywords: Usama Hasan (Person), Quilliam (Organization), Apostasy In Islam, Religion (TV Genre), Islam In The United Kingdom, Islam, Abdullah Andalusi, The Big Questions (TV Program), BBC

Id: PlCazztehbI

Channel Id: undefined

Length: 21min 17sec (1277 seconds)

Published: Mon Mar 16 2015

Reddit Comments

That Andalusi guy is such a liar and a professional bullshitter.

👍︎︎ 7 👤︎︎ u/ferengiprophet 📅︎︎ Aug 08 2016 🗫︎ replies