Dirt Daily. A Flatfender Jeep history lesson and Identification guide.

it's time for dirt daily and today we are going to have a little history lesson today we're talking about old Jeeps specifically these old flat Fender Jeeps now I am not a Jeep historian I am just a Jeep Enthusiast so it's a little bit weird that I'm teaching a history lesson but don't think of it as a history Lesson by history teacher think of it as substitute teacher just kind of filling in and trying to tell you about something really cool that he's been excited about for his whole life so uh I've always liked old Jeeps I kind of grew up with Jeeps um my first car that I went out and purchased was a Jeep and I always wanted one of these style of jeeps these flat fenders so what is the flat fender well the flat Fender is the early Jeeps that have basically flat fenders um after the flat fenders they kind of rounded the fenders at the front and that started in around the 1950s cj5s which I think actually first came out in 55 but uh I'm kind of getting ahead of myself with this whole story um the Jeep thing started in about June of 1940 that's when the US Army was like we see things going on in the world that are a little bit sketchy and we should probably like the Boy Scouts say be prepared so uh around 1940 the US Army said we need a new vehicle for our our Fleet we need something that is a light reconnaissance vehicle basically something that can replace the horse because because up until then like they hadn't really been using an off-road vehicle in the military um they wanted to replace the horse and they're like we need a we have certain parameters that we want we want something that's small and Nimble has to be around 1,300 lb has to be four-wheel drive has to be able to haul up to three people and maybe more and it has to be able to haul a machine gun basically they like we need this little tiny thing that can go places haul people and little did they realize that this idea of this light reconnaissance vehicle was going to snowball into this and that and every other off-road vehicle that we know today and that we take four-wheeling so uh they put out this call they said 1940 it was probably about June I think the stuff I looked up said June of 1940 uh they put out this call for this light vehicle and most of the automakers in the United States were like yeah you can't do that that's it's not possible it's too light um you can't put all that stuff together why would we want to make that we don't really get why you're even asking for us to do that so most of them were just like forget about it in September of 1940 one company showed up with their vehicle that company was called the Bantam motorc car company out of Butler Pennsylvania and they got together with their designers and their engineers and they basically were like we're a small car business and we're probably going out of business soon we need something that'll save us what if we could fulfill this request by the US Army and so they cobbled together parts from their different vehicles and they made a body and they basically said uh I think we can do this and they showed up uh and from what I understand they showed up right at the deadline with this little vehicle and they presented it to the US Army and the US Army uh looked at it and started putting it through its Paces they took it Offroad they tried to haul people in it and there was even a story that they said what does it weigh and Bantam didn't really want to give an answer because it was obviously overweight but some big army Sergeant Colonel whatever like walked up to the thing and grabbed the rear bumper and lifted it up and was able to lift the back of the thing off the ground which I don't really know that that's a true story but the idea is that he said it's good enough if even if it's overweight it's perfect so they kind of ran it through its Paces I think they probably broke it but they liked it so much that they were like this this is really close go home and make us another one and so Bantam went home to make another another one or couple more for more testing and when they came back the US Army had invited a few other people to the party uh namely Ford and Willis or Willies depending on how you pronounce it this is another thing um people will argue over if it's Willies or Willis it's spelled w i l Ys so just say it really fast and nobody will be able to know if you're saying it Willis or Willies so the Willis people showed up as well as the Ford people and they looked at it and the Bantam folks were probably like what are those guys doing here and uh before you knew it Ford and Willis also had a model that was very similar to the Bantam model but with their own parameters so then the US Army was testing all three of these vehicles the Ford the Willis the Bantam putting them through their their Paces trying them out and at the end of the day they decided that they wanted the one that the Willis company had made but by this point they were also like things are getting dicey in the world if in case you don't follow history this was basically pre Pearl Harbor this was when things countries in the world were moving around but nobody had actually attacked the United States but the United States kind of had a feeling like if we get drugg into this second world war we better be prepared and so they basically looked at Willis and Ford and Bantam and said well Bantam you're kind of small um Willis you're a bigger company but and we like your design but we don't even know that that's going to be what is going to be enough you're not we don't know that your factories are going to be big enough to supply what we think we might need so they said Ford you are also going to make this this first vehicle and that first vehicle was called the uh general purpose vehicle the GP um they also called it the general purpose Willies design so the gpw um they also called it the MB and so the early Jeeps were actually known as MBS or gpws and most of the time if it's a gpw it was made by Ford if it's an MP it was made by Willis and unfortunately Bantam was kind of like well you guys are too small bantom actually didn't get much or any of the order to build early Jeeps they were kind of relegated to making little Jeep trailers so unfortunately for bantom they came up with the idea and then they kind of got kicked to the curb uh Willis was making the MB and the Ford version was the gpw now one of those things about the early military vehicles the ones that were made during World War II uh because December 1941 Japanese invaded uh Pearl Harbor and then it all blew up and everybody was like we need stuff made and the companies were like we'll make it and stuff was getting pumped out the door um those early Vehicles 41 to 45 the early Jeeps were actually like they made tons of them they made a half a million of those in basically four or five years um and what's funny and ironic and iconic well the iconic part is that Jeeps have always kind of been known for their seven slot Grill but the military versions The MBS and the gpws which my red Jeep back there in the corner is actually a it is a gpw but the body is an aftermarket repop um but it has nine slots so they had smaller headlights that were behind the grill and they had nine slots so if you are looking at a flat Fender and it has nine slotted Grill it might be an MB or gpw now that brings up the other thing these vehicles since 19411 so let's see 41 51 61 71 81 91 2001 2011 2021 um that's 80 plus years there's no telling what these vehicles have gone through in that time some of them that you will find will be all bone stock and original lots of them will be a mismatch hodge podge of different parts from different Vehicles such as this one behind me which we'll talk about eventually um so if you come across a nine slot grill or even more amazing the earliest ones didn't have a stamped Grill they had what was known as a slat Grill so was like this pieces of Steel metal slatting that was welded up into a grill um you can see how it looks completely different and those are really cool and really rare so that was the earliest ones were slack grills and then they were stamped out into the MB and gpw grills and those have nine slots with the headlights kind of behind the grill instead of out in front so how do you identify an early MB or gpw well there's a couple things one it does not have a tailgate somebody might have cut a tailgate in in the past 80 some years but from stock Factory they didn't have a tailgate they did have some cool little toolboxes in the way way back um they also had a glove box on the dash and on the driver's side there are indentions in the tub for a hatchet and a shovel so if you see those kind of parameters they're most likely a MB or gpw they also had a more squared off windshield like that windshield that is on that red Jeep back there is not correct for an MB or a gpw it's also not correct because we shortened it but it would have a more squared off windshield like this one this green one here behind me however it would have a two-piece there would be two pieces of glass and the glass could actually pivot out for ventilation um the windshields would fold down like all of them but it was different um most of these wind Shields are interchangeable between the different tubs so if you come across one and it has a square windshield that doesn't necessarily mean it is a MV or gpw or the later one that we're going to get to which is the cj2a so um the windshields are easy to remove so it's on it's very likely that the jeep that you're looking at may not be completely identifiable by the windshield it's easy to switch them around so uh those are the parameters for the early Jeeps uh they have um three speed speed manual transmission and it has a two-speed transfer case a high and low range uh uh rear wheeel drive and four-wheel drive and solid axles leaf springs um and they had a four-cylinder engine most of them have uh what is known as the god devil style engine so it is a uh Flathead style engine but we'll get to that down the road um so World War II ends and Willis Willies whatever you want to call it decides that hey uh these vehicles that we've been making for the military why don't we figure out how we can sell them to the civilians why don't we sell a civilian Jeep by this point people were calling them Jeeps for a lot of different reasons uh there's different theories by why it was named the Jeep one is it was kind of the the vehicle was a GP general purpose so it just kind of rolled into GP Jeep um also there was a character from papey the comic or cartoon um and he was named Eugene the Jeep and he had this ability to disappear and show up anywhere um he was kind of this weird alien like rabbit dog thing that could just jump around and so maybe some people say oh well the jeep was named after Eugene the Jeep because not only could Eugene the Jeep go anywhere the Jeep could also go anywhere so that is how you get the name Jeep now if you come across uh flat fender with a nine slot Grill and you want to find out like is this a military vehicle it's going to have the shovel and Hatchet grooves no tailgate Cubbies on the tops of the back of the rear fenders um a glove box um and there there's the VIN the vehicle identification number uh the Willies versions have a tag on the outside of the driver's side frame rail right behind where like the frame rail and the front bumper meet right outside there there should be a little tag if it's still on there the Ford version the gpw version has two different things you can look for one it'll have the VIN stamped in top of the frame rail I think it's on the driver's side about halfway back between the grill and the firewall uh you can see and it usually would say gpw and then like the serial number just stamped right into it um the other cool thing about the Ford version is is Ford wanted to designate all of the parts for their vehicle so lots of the hardware lots of the brackets will have like the old school cursive Ford uh F stamped into them or cast into them or whatever so you can find if you if you find an original gpw you can find these little Ford F script FS all over the hardware so uh 1945 World War II's was wrapping up and probably before the uh agreements were all signed before the ink was even dry in fact maybe even before the war was officially over the guys at Willies were like we we have a winner here we have this vehicle that is doing great in the military how can we turn it into a money-making machine from here on out and somehow they were able to win the the exclusivity for the Jeep and Ford did not get it I don't know how that went down I don't know if Ford was just like we got enough other stuff to make we don't care about this old thing or what or if jeep was or Willis was just like hey uh we need this to stay afloat you guys go make all of your Ford cars like we want to make the Jeep and they were able to do that 1945 war ends 1945 they introduced this this is the CJ or the civilian Jeep and the CJ has stuck around all the way up to uh the mid 80s so this was the the first version that they came to Market with was the cj2a um was there a cj1 probably maybe a prototype or something but the first production one that they ever really came to Market with was a cj2a and they did the cj2a from 45 up until uh 1949 now the cj2a you one of the very first things you can notice that's different is the much larger headlights the headlights have like a bezel that mounts them in front of the grill and uh Seven slots the iconic Seven slots that jeep will defend to their death has was started with the CJ 2A um in addition to that there's a lot of other changes they do no longer have the little Cubbies on the rear fenders they no longer have the glove box on the dash uh they did add a tailgate because the goal was to sell this vehicle to GIS that were coming back from World War II people that wanted a vehicle for on the farm or maybe to get to a cabin maybe there were GIS that were like I don't I want to just move out to the woods and be done with civilization um so they wanted a vehicle that could go hunting um driveing the snow driveing the mud go exploring and honestly like this was kind of the birth of four-wheeling this was when people were like oh here's a cool vehicle and we can go out in the woods and have fun we're not going it's not just getting from A to B it's also like let's just take this thing and go enjoy nature um so all these GIS come back Willis brings this cj2a to Market and they start pumping them out um the cj2a has a few things that are different from the later models it has the squared off windshield this windshield is incorrect because there would be um another kind of glass piece like two glass panels and a center rib and that would flip open in the uh in the cj2a stock version this one like like anything like these things you might see something on the vehicle and be like oh well that's obviously a CJ or a cj2a or a MB but the thing is is like 80 years all this stuff has changed around um what else is the identifying Factor oh the fuel filler cap is outside of the tub it's actually on the driver side and uh where on the MBS and the gpws it was under the driver's seat so like when you would fill up a military Jeep you would flip the seat up and you would pour fuel into the gas tank the gas tank is right underneath the driver's seat um and almost all of these in fact I'm pretty sure in every flat Fender that you could ever get the gas tank was always right underneath the uh driver's seat I don't really know why because there is room in the back underneath but I guess it was just to protect it and have had one less thing to get damaged uh when off-road um so they have the the windshield still folds down has a different it's a very similar style to the MBS and the gpws uh I think it was a little bit taller maybe or one of them was taller one was a little bit shorter uh the added the tailgate and on the cj2a you can find the VIN number on a little tag on the frame rail on the D driver's front frame rail right behind the bumper and also if I can open this there's usually two tags right on the firewall um right by the air cleaner up here in this corner so that will have your VIN tag and tell you what model is so like when this one followed me home the guy getting rid of it thought it was a 51 and I knew right away I was like well I don't think it's a 51 because actually in like late 4849 um they came up with the c CJ uh 3A where this one has like a more squared off windshield and I just kind of had the feeling I was like H this might be an earlier one so the cool thing about these Jeeps is that there's a lot of the paperwork is still around so when I got it home and I cleaned up the T tags I was able to then take that VIN number like you can go online and search the number for example it might say that in 1946 they started with vin 65208 just hypothetically and then they ended it with 89,4 27 and you can look up the number and be like oh it's in between those two it must be a 1946 which this one is so what else does the cj2 a have well it also they mounted the spare tire on the outside on the passenger side on these Jeeps this doesn't have it but a lot of them would have a spare tire bracket hanging off the back corner um which was kind of notorious for these old Jeeps where like if they go off-road a lot that spare tire bracket would rattle or break out or like the bolts would rip through the tub or get hooked on something and beat it all up so I have another cj2a tub out back and it's all beat up in that passenger rear corner where either the spare tire ripped off or broke off or got hooked on something so cj2a is around for probably let's see 45 until I think it was 49 and then in 1948 49 um they started introducing the cj3a so the 3A was the next version of the CJ civilian Jeep um they actually overlapped for a year or two and then the cj3 3A went up until 19 I think it's 53 the cj3a um was very similar to the 2A it did have a different windshield that had more rounded Corners uh one piece glass it didn't have like the pop out glass like uh the 2A have and the earlier MBS it was just kind of like sealed into the frame in addition to the windshield it was it was very similar to the 2A it had a little bit different there were like some frame things here in there maybe some like turn signal lights or parking lights or whatever few things are a little bit different so um the CJ 2A and the CJ 3A um are often interchanged people might see one um but a lot of times you can tell the difference by the windshield so I I think the very first Jeep I ever bought which is this one right here um this was a or is a cj3a and it had a small block Chevy in it and I started to tear it down and clean it up and modified the frame did a bunch of stuff to it and then now it sits in the corner over here uh where I need to get back to it someday identifying factors between the cj3a and 2A um are mostly windshield and a few little things here and there but again if you look at the look for the the little tags with the vins on it uh you can find them on the frame and on the firewall and that can help you determine by looking up that number it can help you determine which model you are starting with now after the CJ 3A um right around 49 Willis came out with a new military Jeep for the Army and it was the M38 now the M38 is often considered the best flat Fender you can get your hands on um um a little bit more rugged uh a little bit more unique but really from a distance has the same silhouette same size and looks very similar to uh cj3a but has um 24 volts uh electrical for the military um has different brackets and things to make it a little bit more beefy it has like slight changes to the grill and the tailgate but what's really noticeable is that in the dash there is a um panel that holds all of the gauges and so if you can unbolt that panel um with all the gauges then you're probably starting with an M38 plus some of them have this area would be a battery box plus the military version like the MB and the gpw that had the bracketry amount a shovel and an axe on the driver's side while the M38 has that moved over to the p passenger side so if you come across a tub and it has a removable Dash panel and it has a battery box and it has a place on the passenger side for a shovel and an axe like these kind of indentions on the side of the tub you're probably looking at an M38 M38 also have something really cool especially if they're bone stock where the spark plug wires are threaded so if you put the spark plug in and you put you attach The Wire doesn't just go over like a boot it would actually thread on make a watertight seal and which was made so that they could drive them underwater for like deep water foring which is always kind of I always thought that was the coolest thing um I've only ever seen a handful of fully stock M38 I'm sure there's lots of them out there but if you get your hands on one that is one of the Jeeps that you should hang on to because I mean I think all the flat fenders are cool I've always been fond of the military ones with the nin slot grills but the M38 is probably the most robust of all of the uh flat fenders now let's talk about engines so the flat Fender Jeeps kind of all started with this little 4cylinder 134 cubic inch engine known as the god devil and the god devil engine was an lhe head engine which is a little confusing it has a flat head but it has but it's called the lad engine um the lad is kind of the name given to it because the valves both the intake and exhaust valve are in the block they are not in the head and this makes the head really um short really low helps keep the hood low helps keep the silhouette of the entire vehicle low and which is great for going off-roading um and for being in the military you want a vehicle that you can um store low nimble small um hide behind small walls whatever so this was known as the god devil uh lad engine 134 L1 134 and or godev devil 134 and these things made about 60 horsepower which is probably why half of the flat fenders or more that you see when you're cruising the classifi will have an engine swap in them the lad engines are cool um they don't make a lot of power um for years and years and years people were stuffing other engines in there in fact one of the early Originators of the hot rod scene when he was a GI um he actually did an engine swap during World War II like while they were posted somewhere uh I think they took a V8 out of a Ford truck and stuffed it in a flat Fender and that was like one of the very early uh engine swaps on a flat Fender and it's been going on for ages um they've had everything stuffed in them Big Blocks small blocks they don't all fit very well and honestly like the engine bay fits the lad and the early little Flathead engines great so the next version of the civilian Jeep to come along was the cj3b and the cj3b is one of those Jeeps that people either love or hate and most people hate it because it's kind of funny looking but there's a really good reason why it's funny looking um it's known as the high Hood um because the hood was like almost twice as high from the fender as the earlier CJs and the earlier MBS and the reason it was a higher Hood was because it had a different engine um in about 1950s late I think it's 52 53 the cj3b came out and Willies went from the lad godev devil engine to The Fad hurricane engine both of them 134 cubic in but where the L head was about 60 horsepower now they jumped up to about 72 to 75 horsepower depending on which version you get um the hurricane engine had the I think it was the inlet valve in the head and the exhaust valve in the block and because of this different architecture the engine was taller and in order to fit the taller engine uh remember this was not about car design this was literally like form following function and they were like well we got a bigger engine we need the hood to be higher so they raised the grill they raised there's literally a seam right here on the cow of the Jeep and on a cj3b they just went and brought it up they brought it like they added like 4 inches across the whole thing and raised the whole thing up um CJ 3bs get a bad WP because people are like ah they're ugly I think there's ways you can make a cj3b look cool uh if you want to change it uh I think that they are cool because they're so unusual um they do have more power and uh there's a lot of people that love them Plus nowadays when people want to swap in engines or if they don't want to keep the stock engine or if they find one that doesn't have a stock engine uh the cj3b being a taller Hood does allow make it easier to swap in a taller engine um one thing that we did when we built my custom summer camp Jeep which if you look at it it doesn't look like a flat Fender at all I mean it's much much bigger but we actually started with a cj3b height on the cow and then we raised the fenders up so that the hood was CJ 2A or MB height so we basically High lined it to kind of keep the front looking sort of military cj2 but we used so much more height in this area so that we could fit the really big supercharged engine um things a total hot rod it doesn't really it's kind of vaguely picking up cues off of a flat Fender but the whole tub is bigger and the whole everything is bigger so but I guess my point is is don't hate on the cj3b it's it's a cool vehicle and there's a lot of them that are out there that kind of get overlooked and nowadays when flat fenders are kind of ratcheting up in value uh I think you can still get your hands on a cj3b if you keep your eyes peeled now they did have a military version it was called an m606 it was a military version of the cj3b and it probably had 24 volts or other military stuff I don't know a whole lot about those but I do know that those were available also finally I'm going to wrap up with the DJ 3A which is there's a variant of that that is probably my girlfriend's favorite Jeep um the dj3a is known as the the dispatch Jeep and it was a two-wheel drive jeep and it was designed as like a the original idea was it would be a postal Jeep it would be the thing that could run errands um they could they were available with like a metal hard top or convertible top or even like a half cab top um and they were mostly used for little towns to like deliver mail or run deliveries or whatever but at some point some genius at Willies came up with the idea of these would be great to sell to Resorts and I think aapo was a big area maybe Mau where they would sell these two- wheel drive Jeeps in these wacky colors it was like a pink like a baby blue and kind of like a light green and they had like frilly striped tops and striped seats they were two wheel drive and they were mainly used at these resorts to shuttle guests around or take people golfing or run people back to their uh hotel room after too many too much line dancing at the bar um but these were known as Sur jeeps and they're two wheel drive only uh they don't have a transfer case they just have a beam front axle and my girlfriend loves them because she thinks they're cute but the fact of the matter is is that they're getting really hard to find and they are becoming collectible because um of that styling um I don't know they made a lot of them I've seen a few of them at parades and in music museums but you really don't see Sur Jeeps or dispatch Jeeps that often I do think uh Christian Hazel the guy who works at four-wheel and off-road and leads Ultimate Adventure um I think his flat Fender that he owns and built years ago as like a rock crawler I think it started as a dj3a tub I don't think it was a sui but I think it was um one of those dispatch Jeeps which I mean he replaced all the dri train so it didn't really matter if it was two wheel drive or four-wheel drive but if you come across a a two- wheel drive flat Fender um there's a good chance it's either a dispatch or a Sur so that kind of wraps it up um come the about 1954 55 Jeep stepped away from the flat fenders and started going to the cj5s they did keep making the cj3b all the way up until I think about the mid 60s and I think the dispatch Jeeps they also made up until the the mid-60s but by then the the design had kind of moved on to the CJ5 and I had a chance to interview the head of design at Jeep and he had been there for years and I asked him once I said what is your favorite Jeep of all the Jeeps the MBS the CJs the CJ 2A 3A uh cj7s Etc and he said you know what my favorite is the CJ5 because the CJ J5 was the first time that jeep brought in a designer before that it was all form following function and him as a designer was like yeah I mean I get it it he can appreciate it but I think as a designer he was like the CJ5 was when they finally were like give it a little flare like wrap the fenders around the tires which is part of the reason why people either love flat fenders or they love CJs I mean there's definitely a a separation between the two but his favorite thing about CJs was that they finally brought in a designer to kind of look at the overall uh design of the vehicle and kind of tune it and tweak it um I will talk about CJ5 some other time that is kind of a wrapup for everything flatfender so um what did we figure out on this Jeep after it showed up well uh I was able to find the vins so that told me what year and model it was uh it has the the lad 134 God devil engine which I don't know if it works but we'll get into that in another episode it has the squared off windshield of a cj2a um it this part is not right it should have a framework with a rib in the middle and actually have two separate P panes of glass so that it can flip open uh but that is a cj2a maybe a military but probably a cj2a windshield um they all should fold down like this uh there are no little cubbies in the back Corners um there is uh the gas filler neck on the driver's side outside of the tub and there are no ribs in the S so that tells me this is definitely a civilian Jeep um and of course looking up the VIN you can learn that it is a cj2a it has a little toolbox here this one has a bunch of dirt in it and and right up here on the front of the toolbox is the word Jeep in cursive which is pretty cool that about wraps it up I like I said before I am not a Jeep historian I'm just a Jeep Enthusiast but I have read a lot about Jeeps over the years and I tried to tell you everything I know from all the different stories that I've heard but that's it for this dirt daily thanks for tuning in stay tuned maybe in the future I'll do another history lesson on some other thing that I seem to know a little bit about um and if you don't like what I have to say just make a comment below and we can argue about it on the internet because that always solves something all right that's it for this d da we'll see you guys next [Music] time

Channel: 4xFredWilliams

Views: 24,803

Keywords: willys jeeps, willys jeep, cj2a, mb, jeep, eugene the jeep, wrangler, cj, cj3a, cj3b, gpw, dj, dirt daily, 4xfredwilliams, 4xfred

Id: thpPFj8PQBk

Length: 38min 7sec (2287 seconds)

Published: Tue Feb 27 2024