Did Delphi Murder Suspect Act Alone?

all right let's get to Delphi Indiana the murders there a hearing for the man accused of killing two teens just wrapped up moments ago the victims families face the suspect in court for the very first time our cameras captured Richard Allen arriving in court last hour as you know he's accused of killing Abigail Williams and Liberty German in 2017. the judge in this case heard arguments about whether or not the evidence against him should be made public today I want to bring in our legal experts HLN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson joins us now criminologist Casey Jordan and Steve Moore retired supervisory special agent for the FBI but first let's go to our own Barbara McDonald host of down the hill the Delphi murders podcast and HLN special investigations producer who was just inside that courtroom Barbara what can you tell us good morning I can tell you the hearing lasted about 30 minutes Richard Allen was brought in he was wearing a bright yellow prison jumpsuit with a bulletproof vest he was Shackled at his hands and feet he had a chain wrapped around his chest area and that's where his hands were Shackled so they were up pretty high not down low as you might expect he came in with his attorneys he sat down just before he did sit down he did look into the gallery and made eye contact with several members of Abby and Libby's families who were sitting there there were about 17 or 18 members of both families present for this hearing once the hearing got underway Nick mcleland the prosecutor for Carroll County made several arguments about why this information should remain sealed he presented four exhibits to the court regarding his argument and basically he said there were two reasons why he wanted that information to remain sealed one was to protect any witnesses that were men mentioned in that document and two because this is an ongoing and active investigation and Mr mcleland actually said in court that they have good reason to believe that Mr Allen is not the only actor in this heinous crime and that they are looking for anyone else who may be involved in this case and that is why they want all of that information to remain sealed the defense attorneys took a very different approach they said that they are asking for transparency that that is the norm in these matters and that Mr Allen would like this information that is being used against him at this point to be made public the defense attorneys did agree that the information about some of the witnesses they don't have an objection to that being redacted that some of the Witnesses were described as being current miners some of them were minors at the time of their Witness this involvement and so the prosecutor in this case did present the judge with a redacted version of the probable cause affidavit for her to review it was not entered into evidence at this point or listed as an exhibit but she did say that she would consider that as part of her notes once the hearing wrapped up the judge said that she would take all of this under advisement she would go over her notes and case law and make a written ruling on whether or not the probable cause and charging documents in this case should remain sealed or whether they should be released to the public and if so how they should be released to the public how much of a redaction there should be whether she's going to agree with what the prosecutor presented her in court today or not now we also talked about a bond hearing in this case within the last 48 hours the defense attorneys did file for bond in this case or to have Mr Allen released on his own recognizance and the judge said that she would like to set a different hearing for that that is going to happen on February 17th which is just a few days after the anniversary of these murders which were February 13th of 2017 the six-year anniversary approaching that's the week we're going to be back in court to find out whether Mr Allen is going to get Bond or whether he would be allowed to be released on his own recognizance his attorneys in their motion filing for that Bond did say that they don't believe that there is enough evidence against him to hold him without bond and that is why they are asking for him to be released either with a minimal Bond or on his own recognizance now there was initially when this case was when Mr Allen was first arrested there was a hearing set for January of 2023 that hearing has now been canceled and that hearing will be blended into the bond hearing which is scheduled again for February 17th of 2023 also right now there is from the original court calendar a trial scheduled for March it is unknown at this time if anybody is going to be ready for a trial at that time I do anticipate that will probably be moved but the next time we're in court on this case is going to be in February of 2023. oh wow okay Barbara just so much to break down there a couple things stood out to me and certainly I want to get to more on the advisement but you you caught my attention when you said that he made eye contact with the family so we before we get into some of these nuances can you just paint a picture for us can you you know were there any sounds uttered uh how long was the eye contact I mean it just for us we've been waiting so many years and then we I can't fathom these two parties making eye contact yeah it was interesting I was sitting with several of the family members and uh we were in court for about an hour before the hearing began and so we were talking and many of them were sharing with me that they are looking at this and taking this information in and have not made any judgments yet about whether Richard Allen is is guilty whether he deserves to be charged with what he has been charged with they are waiting to hear all of the evidence that the state has against him just like the public is um the sheriff came in and also announced to everyone that there was an order of silence for the court proceeding today and that anybody that made any sound out loud could be escorted from the courtroom so once Mr Allen was brought in and he made eye contact I didn't hear anything I didn't feel like that gasp or anything that anybody had I think that the family members were genuinely curious to see how he was going to present himself um I I don't know him I didn't know him prior to these charges but he definitely appeared curious he made eye contact for several seconds it sort of scanned the two rows where the family members were sitting he made eye contact with me because I was right next to some of the family members and then once he did sit down he was looking around the courtroom it is a historic courtroom it's a beautiful courtroom and he seemed to be sort of taking in the architecture he had attorneys flanking him on both sides and he did not say a single word during today's proceeding wow okay Barb unbelievable reporting I want to weave in some of the guests who we have specifically Joey if I may start with you obviously two very opposing arguments as you would expect the prosecution and the defense what Barbara said caught my attention was that not only protecting the witnesses which you would expect but also may not be the only bad actor what do you make of that and the advisement is that typical do we have to wait do you suspect a week two weeks today yeah without question to Elizabeth riveting reporting by Barbara McDonald and so with respect to the issues it is not uncommon that a judge will hear argument and thereby defer after evaluating the arguments and looking at what the law says right in terms of whether or not information should be revealed released to the public Etc I think it's a smart move you don't want to do a knee-jerk reaction with regard to the basis and reason to keep these records sealed I think those reasons are compelling why Elizabeth number one what did we learn what you just pointed out that there may in fact be another actor in the event for example the probable cause information is released does that actor then get wind of it do they flee the jurisdiction does it otherwise impair the investigation that is a very good reason number two the protection of other Witnesses in the event that other Witnesses are released or revealed to the general public does it in Peril or endanger them right to what extent now does it influence or affect their lives these are very important reasons why a judge May indeed at the end of the day seal this last point when they talk when you talk about Barbara McDonald raising the issue of deferring the issue of Baal right very smart move also why if you're going to argue in terms of battle Elizabeth remember what the defense's argument is that is that there's not enough evidence to keep my client in order to make that argument you have to talk about the evidence you have to talk about the lack of the evidence what the affidavit shows so by the judge deferring that issue till February she now gets the ability to evaluate everything make a reason decision and otherwise give an indication as to legally why it would be proper to seal or to unseal and you continue to protect the Integrity of the investigation as well as the witnesses involved in the investigation and allow the police to bring the other actor to Justice by that time so this is all very important excellent work by Barbara McDonald yeah it was a little bit surprising when we talk about possibly the Bad actors I want to weave in Steve Moore but when we talk about an ongoing investigation when we talk about what's going on behind the scenes why is that so valid to make an investigation complete well you've got your entire game plan that you want to set up as an investigator and when you believe there's somebody else involved and we don't know whether the person who was involved in the crime itself or as an accessory after the fact you're going to want to make sure that everything you can nail down before trial is nailed down before trial and as Joey said this person could flee the jurisdiction or they could even destroy evidence so there is a lot at stake um when with this with this order to seal um and it's going to put a lot of pressure on the investigators to get their work done fairly quickly especially before the next Hearing in February right and Casey if I can weave you into the conversation because we haven't talked Joey touched on it we talked a little bit about the bail you know it's taken six years right and the families are are thinking to themselves now he could be released on his own reconnaissance your reaction to that from The Stance of a criminologist well that and I'm an attorney and I have to tell you that's a really strong argument by his defense attorney after all if we don't know what's in the affidavit I mean how as The as the motion points out no one in the public has seen the probable cause affidavit so how can we assess whether the allegations against Allen are even strong a good defense attorney is going to pick right up on that they're going to point out just what the Press is arguing when they when they're arguing for this to be released that secrecy breeds this concept that there is no confidence in the case that they're still working on it that this is like a Hail Mary pass arresting this guy and they're going to argue that if you can't really bring that evidence to Bear then he should be let out on on a reasonable bail or on his own recognizance it's a really good argument but I think you're right the most shocking thing that we've learned this morning is that the prosecutor believes there could be another bad actor Ah that's really not going to breed confidence why isn't this other bad actor also under arrest it it's almost sending a message you know we're figuring it out as we go uh you know I can play this both ways I can see why we would want to keep these things sealed we want to make sure that when this goes to trial if it goes to trial that we can get an impartial jury and yet at the same time you could get a jury who believes that this is a kangaroo court that this was an arrest of convenience that the prosecutor simply felt public pressure to produce somebody and that maybe they've got the wrong guy so you know it can go either way I do it like that the judge is going to be thoughtful take her time really look at the facts carefully before making a judgment because emotion shouldn't have anything to do with this it really should just be based on the facts you're so right especially since we've waited you know six years and although we have such intense public interest we certainly want the investigation to be done thoroughly for these poorer families Barbara McDonald Joey Jackson Steve Moore and Casey Jordan we will keep you around in just a moment more on this a judge says she will release a written decision about whether to unseal the evidence against the man accused of killing two teen girls in Delphi Indiana new video here of Richard Allen who was Shackled wearing a bulletproof vest as he walked into the courthouse just an hour ago he's charged with murdering Abigail Williams and Liberty German back in 2017 and we're going to continue with our team coverage of experts breaking down all aspects of the breaking news but I do want to start with our own Barbara McDonald who was inside the cart room Barbara these families have been waiting six almost six years just to get inside this courtroom can you tell us what it was like to be inside and what happened well we were all led into the courtroom they they opened the court about 8 A.M so about an hour before the hearing we were let in and seated uh they filled every available seat and then they brought in a table with some chairs to bring in a few other journalists it appeared that most of the people in the audience were members of the media there were about 18 members of Abby and Libby's families also in attendance the first row of the gallery was reserved and no one sat there perhaps to provide an extra buffer between the gallery and the attorneys and Richard Allen himself he was led into court wearing a bright yellow prison jumpsuit that bulletproof vest a chain wrapped around his chest area where his hands were Shackled his feet were also Shackled before he sat down he did look at the gallery he looked at the family members he made eye contact with several of them and then he sat down he did not say anything during today's proceeding it lasted about 30 minutes the prosecutor's Arguments for keeping this information sealed at this point was twofold one to protect the witnesses especially juvenile Witnesses and the second was because he says there are other people being looked at who could be involved in this case in fact he said they had good reason to believe that Mr Allen was not the only actor in this heinous crime that was from the prosecutor Nicholas mcleland the defense argued for transparency in this matter that that is the norm in these proceedings and that they believe that the secrecy throughout this investigation because investigators have not released very much information throughout the process yet they have multiple times asked the public for their help in solving this case the defense attorneys argued that all of that just contributed to the attention and that by releasing the information that's how this process should work and that that was what they preferred and Mr Allen preferred in this matter the defense also filed a motion for a bond to either have him released on his own recognizance or for a minimal bail to be set the judge set a date of February 17th of 2023 that is the same week as the anniversary of these girls murders Abby and Libby were killed on February 13th of 2017 here in Delphi just a few miles from where I'm standing right now so we will be back in court again in February there was initially a hearing set for January that has been moved and combined with the bond hearing and as you mentioned Elizabeth the judge says she is going to take the Thanksgiving holiday review her notes review the law and issue her written ruling she says the Thanksgiving holiday is not going to interfere with her ability to do that so now we play the waiting game waiting for that information to come from the judge on what she's going to do Elizabeth okay Barb thank you unbelievable reporting Casey I do want to start start with you really catches my attention when the prosecutors say this may not be the only bad actor my jaw almost hit the ground why don't we know why didn't we know that information before and what does that mean exactly that's the one thing that came out this morning that I was not expecting as a criminologist or as an attorney and let's look at that one sentence Barbara just read one more time the prosecutor has good reason to believe that Alan is not the only actor in this heinous crime what if there is somebody else and a good reason okay apparently not in a probable cause to make an arrest and if we're going to be looking for Richard Allen to be convicted with proof Beyond A Reasonable Doubt then we just kind of introduced some lovely reasonable doubt that Richard Allen may not be guilty might may not be entirely guilty had an accomplice from a criminology perspective this would be highly unusual if you're talking about somebody who would be a co-defendant that he did not act alone in murdering these two young ladies that would be on one side of the spectrum the other side is just that we're talking about somebody who may have destroyed evidence who knew and didn't turn him in uh you know it could be that the bad actor it doesn't even say bad actor just another actor so I'm where that this is just a red herring and that the message it sends is that they don't have a strong case statistically this guy acted alone most likely and if they've got the evidence they should be proud of it and they shouldn't be afraid to release it yeah when you say you know maybe they don't have a strong case it's almost the last thing that you want for the family right when we talk about an investigation standpoint Steve if I can bring you into the conversation obviously the defense is saying listen this is not normal we need to follow a more open case and a lot of this information will come out in Discovery is that right but in the meantime if there are parts of the investigation that do need to be bolstered does it need to stay private well yeah I I think it does but you know I'm coming from the law enforcement side I used to try to keep all of my evidence uh close to the vest until Discovery and that's those are very important times and timing where you can show the evidence to the defense attorneys sometimes face to face and say what do you want to do about that and um you know the other thing is uh you want to hide evidence away from somebody who might have uh culpable knowledge that they know details that only the killer or somebody assisting him might know and they're still working on that you know Joey when we heard uh we we heard the judge say advisement the holiday will not interfere with her timeline but then again Court's not going to be until February and I know that those two aren't necessarily dependent on each other but they have to have Reasonable Doubt I mean that now we're talking about the defense wanting him to be released on his own reconnaissance and I know I'm throwing a lot at you from from a legal standpoint sort of what's next here yeah there's a number of things next so the first thing is the judge has to resolve the issue was to whether or not that affidavit is unsealed and whether or not we get to see it there's good reason for her not to the second thing of course is the issue of Baal and in deciding that issue we're going to learn a lot more I think as to why this defendant is in what specifically did he do or he did not do that will influence a decision in large measure in February as to whether bail will be set at all all right well I know I threw a lot at all of you there Joey Jackson Steve Moore Casey Jordan Barbara McDonald thank you so much what a case and what information we learned today thank you all

Channel: HLN

Views: 171,278

Keywords: hln, hlntv.com, headline news, news, courtroom, true crime, delphi, delfy, delfie, indiana, abigail williams, liberty german, libby german, abby and libby, abby & libby, crime, richard allen

Id: VeZW438EYs0

Length: 21min 3sec (1263 seconds)

Published: Tue Nov 22 2022