TO SCORE POLITICAL POINTS AND USED MISLEADING FACTS TO SUPPORT HER NARRATIVE ABOUT RESIDENT BIDEN AND THE BORDER. JONATHAN KATZ ON TIK-TOK BY THE WAY. THEY HAVE GOOD THINGS. HE JOINS ME NOW TO TALK ABOUT IMMIGRATION AND CONFLICT. I SUSPECT THAT'S WHY HE KNEW SOMETHING WAS UP HERE. HE IS THE AUTHOR OF TWO BOOKS. THE BIG TRUCK THAT WENT BY. HOW THE WORLD CAME TO SAVE HAITI AND LEFT BEHIND ITS DISASTER AND GANGSTERS OF CAPITALISM. THE MAKING AND BREAKING OF AMERICA'S EMPIRE. WHEN I WAS WATCHING YOUR VIDEO, I THOUGHT TO MYSELF, HOW DID HE FIGURE THIS OUT? WALK-THROUGH WITH US -- YOU HAVE COVERED IMMIGRATION AND MIGRATION FOR YEARS. THAT MIGHT BE A CORE PART OF THE ANSWER. WHEN YOU ARE WATCHING MATT, HOW DID SOMETHING THAT FEEL RIGHT TO YOU? >> SOMETHING JUST SEEMED OFF ABOUT IT. MAYBE IT IS BECAUSE I'VE BEEN COVERING THIS STUFF FOR SO MANY YEARS THAT THESE THINGS OPERATE ON A MORE INSTINCTIVE LEVEL. BUT I THINK PART OF IT WAS THAT SHE WAS GETTING VERY SPECIFIC AND LURID DETAILS ABOUT PART OF THE STORY BUT LEAVING THE MOST IMPORTANT PARTS OF THE STORY VAGUE. NO QUESTION ABOUT WHERE THIS HAPPENED, WHAT THE NAME OF THE WOMAN WAS, WHAT COUNTRY IT HAPPENED THEN. THE FIRST THING I WAS WONDERING WAS WHAT HAPPENED TO THE WOMAN AFTER. DID SHE GET ASYLUM? THE GOOD ASYLUM CASE. >> THE CASE IN SOME WAYS, AND HER INTENTION. >> JUST STARTED GOOGLING. >> HE DID CONTACT HER OF COURSE AND HER TEAM, SHOULD SAY. WHAT WAS THAT BACK AND FORTH LIKE? OR DO THE RESPONDENT AWKWARD >> WHO DID NOT RESPOND AT ALL. PAST RELEASES THE OTHER HAD TROUBLE TO THE BORDER WITH WAS OUT. >> I WILL ADMIT AS MUCH AS IT IS DISAPPOINTING AND DISTRESSING ALL OF THE THINGS THAT WAS SO MISLEADING, HAS IT BEEN PAINFUL TO WATCH OR TRY TO UNRAVEL FROM IT? >> YES. >> WATCHING THE FOX NEWS INTERVIEW, SHE SEEMS TO BE IMPLYING THAT SHE WASN'T TRYING TO SAY THIS HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH BIDEN'S BORDER POLICY. YOU BUY THAT? >> NO. SHE MAKES A SANDWICH WITH A FEELING THAT I DON'T THINK I'M SUPPOSED TO SAY ON TV. SHE STARTS OFF BY SAYING THIS IS PRESIDENT BIDEN'S BORDER POLICY. THEN SHE PUTS IN THE ANECDOTE WHERE SHE TAKES WITHOUT PERMISSION. APPARENTLY TO THE CHAGRIN OF THE WOMEN SHE TOOK IT FROM. AS SOMEONE WHO HAS REPORTED FROM THE LITTLE COUNTRIES IN CRISIS AND A LOT OF DEVELOPED COUNTRIES, THE GLOBAL SOUTH, AND VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE DYNAMIC OF PEOPLE COMING FROM THE UNITED STATES, RICHER COUNTRIES, ELITE CLASSES. IN TAKING SOMEBODY'S STORY AND USING IT TO AGGRANDIZE THEMSELVES OR THAT MIGHT BE PART OF WHAT GOT MY ATTENTION ON SOME LEVEL. THEN SHE ENDS IT BY BRINGING IT BACK TO PRESIDENT BIDEN'S BORDER POLICY. THE SPOKESMAN SAID TO OTHER PEOPLE -- DID NOT RESPOND TO ME, BUT SAID TO OTHERS THAT THE STORY WAS 100% CORRECT. MAYBE YOU MEANT ON THE LEVEL OF INDIVIDUAL SENTENCES. WORKED ON THE INDIVIDUAL CLAUSE. HAD SOME NUGGET OF TRUTH IN IT. THEN IN THE CONDITIONAL, WE WOULD BE HORRIFIED IF THIS THING HAPPENED TODAY THIRD WORLD COUNTRY USING OUR TIME. BUT THIS IS THE UNITED STATES. THAT'S -- I DON'T KNOW YOU GET AWAY FROM SHE IS CLEARLY IMPLYING SHE IS SAYING STRAIGHT OUT. >> I'M SHOCKED THEY DID NOT CONTACT THE WOMAN. I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN A LOT OF SPEECHES WERE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A LOT OF INDIVIDUALS. GOT A MINUTE LEFT AND I SHOULD TALK ABOUT THIS FOR 20 MINUTES. WHAT'S THE THING? YOU BEEN COVERING IMMIGRATION. IT BECOMES SO POLITICIZED. WHAT'S THE ONE THING THAT PEOPLE SAY OR SPECULATE ABOUT THIS ISSUE, THAT YOU JUST -- DRIVES YOU CRAZY BECAUSE IT IS SO WRONG? >> THE BIGGEST THING IS THE VICTIMS OF THE DYSFUNCTION OF THE BACKLOG OF CLOSING PORTS OF ENTRY AND FORCING PEOPLE TO GO THROUGH SMUGGLING ROUTES ARE IMMIGRANTS, MIGRANTS. THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SUFFERING. AND YOU KNOW, THE WAY THAT IT'S TALKED ABOUT IN WASHINGTON, THE WAY REPUBLICANS TALK ABOUT IT, THE WAY A LOT OF LIBERALS TALK ABOUT IT IS THAT THE ULTIMATE VICTIMS OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. THAT IT'S YOUR CHILDREN, MR. AND MRS. AMERICA, AND THESE IMMIGRANTS ARE COMING FOR. THERE IS INVASION. IT'S JUST A PERVERSION. THE PEOPLE SUFFERING ARE PEOPLE WHO WERE FLEEING THE GLOBAL SOUTH, FLEEING PRICES, FLEEING GLOBAL WARMING, TRYING TO MAKE BETTER LIVES FOR THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES AND THEIR BEING DEMONIZED AND WEBINARS IN OUR POLITICS HERE AND IT
