Democracy Now: Noam Chomsky, April 12, 2019

from the issue of israel-palestine to the arrest of Julian Assange from nuclear war to climate change after viewing part of a new film about him called internationalism or extinction Noam Chomsky talked about the past two years under President Trump you'll indulge me I'd like to start with brief reminiscence of period which is eerily similar to today and many unpleasant respects I'm thinking of exactly 80 years ago almost to the day happened to be the moment of the first article that I remember having written on political issues easy to date it was right after the fall of our salona in February 1939 the article was about what seemed to be the inexorable spread of fascism over the world 1938 Austria had been annexed by Nazi Germany a few months later the Czechoslovakia was betrayed put placed in the hands of the Nazis at the Munich conference the in Spain one city after another was falling to Franco's forces February 1939 Barcelona fell that was the end of the Spanish Republic the remarkable popular revolution anarchist revolution of nineteen thirty-six thirty-seven thirty-eight had already been crushed by force it looked as if fascism was going to spread without end it's not exactly what's happening today but if we can borrow Mark Twain's famous phrase history doesn't repeat but sometimes rhymes too many similarities to overlook when Barcelona fell there was a huge flood of refugees from Spain most went to Mexico about 40,000 some went to New York City established anarchist offices in Union Square secondhand bookstores and down fourth Avenue that's where I got my early political education roaming around that area that's 80 years ago now it's today we didn't know at the time but the US government was also beginning to think about the how the spread of fascism might be virtually unstoppable they didn't view it with the same alarm that I did as a ten year old we now know that the attitude of the State Department was rather mixed regarding what the significance of the Nazi movement was actually there was a consul in Berlin US Consul in Berlin who was sending back pretty mixed comments about the Nazis suggesting maybe they're not as bad as everyone says he stayed there until harbored a when he was withdrawing famous diplomat named George Kennan not not a bad indication of the mixed attitude towards these developments the it turns out couldn't have known it at the time but shortly after this 1939 the State Department and the Council on Foreign Relations began to carry out planning about the post-war world what would the post-war world looked like and in the early years right about that time next few years they assumed that the post-war world would be divided between a German controlled world Nazi controlled world most of Eurasia and a u.s. controlled world which would include the lot the Western Hemisphere the former British Empire which the US would take over parts of the Far East and that would be the shape of the post-war world those views we now know were maintained until the Russians turned the tide Stalingrad in 1942 the huge tank battle that of course a little later I made it pretty clear that the Russians would defeat the Nazis the planning changed picture of the post-war world changed went on to what we've seen for the last period since that time well that was 80 years ago today we do not we are not facing the rise of anything like Nazism but we are facing the spread of which sometimes called the ultra-nationalist reactionary international trumpeted openly by its advocates including Steve Bannon the impresario of the movement just had a victory yesterday the Netanyahu election and Israel solidified the reactionary alliance that's being established all of this under the US aegis run by the FeRAM triumvirate the trump Pompeo triumvirate could borrow a phrase from george w bush to describe them but out of politeness I want the the Middle East Alliance consists of the extreme reactionary states of the region Saudi Arabia United Arab Emirates Egypt under the most brutal dictatorship of its history Israel right at the center of it confronting Iran severe threats that we're facing in Latin America the election of Jacob Olsen ro and Brazil was put in power of the most extreme most outrageous of the right-wing ultra-nationalists who are now plaguing the hemisphere yesterday Lenin Moreno the of Ecuador took a strong step towards joining the far-right alliance by expelling Julianna songs from the embassies picked up quickly by the US will face a very dangerous future unless there's a significant popular protest Mexico and is one of the rare exceptions in Latin America to these developments this has happened in Western Europe the right-wing parties are growing some of them very frightening in character there is a counter development Yanis varoufakis the former finance minister of greece very significant important individual along with Bernie Sanders have urged the formation of a progressive international to counter the right-wing international that's developing at the level of states the balance looks overwhelmingly in the wrong direction but states aren't the only entities at the level of people it's quite different and that could make the difference that means a need to protect the functioning democracies to enhance them to make use of the opportunities they provide for the kinds of activism that have led significant progress in the past could save us in the future I want to make a couple of remarks below about the severe difficulty of maintaining and instituting democracy the powerful forces that have always opposed that the the achievements of somehow salvaging and enhancing it and the significance of that for the future but first a couple of words about the challenges that we face which you heard enough about already and you all know about I don't have to go into them in detail to describe these challenges as extremely severe would be an error the phrase does not capture the enormity of the kinds of challenges that lie ahead and any serious discussion of the future of humanity must begin by recognizing a critical fact that the human species is now facing a question that has never before arisen in human history question that has to be answered quickly will human society survive for long well as you all know for seventy years we've been living under the shadow of nuclear war those who've looked at the record can only be amazed that we've survived this far a time after time has come extremely close to terminal disaster even minutes away it's kind of a miracle that we survived miracles don't go on forever this has to be terminated done quickly the recent Nuclear Posture review of the new trump administration dramatically increases the threat of conflagration which would in fact be terminal for the species we may remember that this Nuclear Posture review was sponsored by Jim mattis who was regarded as too civilized to may retain to be retained and the administration gives you a sense of what can be tolerated in the trump Pompeo bolton world well there were three major arms treaties of the ABM Treaty and that a ballistic missile treaty the @f treaty intermediate nuclear forces the New START treaty the u.s. pulled out of the ABM Treaty in 2002 and anyone who believes that anti-ballistic missiles or defensive weapons is deluded about the nature of these systems the US has just pulled out of the INF treaty established by the Gorbachev and Reagan in 1987 which sharply reduced the threats of war in Europe which would very quickly spread the background of that signing of that treaty was the demonstrations that you just saw depicted on the film massive public demonstrations were the background for leading to a treaty that made a very significant difference worth remembering that many other cases where significant popular activism has made a huge difference the lessons are too obvious to enumerate well the Trump administration is just withdrawn from the INF treaty the Russians withdrew right afterwards if you take a close look you find that each side has a kind of incredible case saying that the opponent has not lived up to the treaty for those who want a picture of the how the Russians might look at it The Bulletin of Atomic Scientists the major journals on arms control issues had a lead article a couple of weeks ago by Theodore Postol pointing out how dangerous the US installations of anti-ballistic missiles on the Russian border how dangerous they are and can be perceived to be by the Russians notice on the Russian border tensions are mounting on the Russian border both sides are carrying out provocative actions we should in a rational world what would happen would be negotiations between the two sides with independent experts to evaluate the charges that each is make against the other to lead to a resolution of these charges restore the treaty that's a rational world but it's unfortunately not the world we're living in and though efforts are all have been made in this direction and they won't be unless there is significant pressure well that leaves the New START treaty the New START treaty has already been designated by the figure in charge who has modestly described himself as the greatest president in American history he gave it the usual designation of anything that was done by his predecessors the worst treaty that ever happened in human history we've got to get rid of it if in fact this comes up for renewal right after the next election and a lot is at stake a lot is at stake and whether that treaty will be renewed it has succeeded and very significantly reducing the number of nuclear weapons to a level way above what they ought to be but way below what they were before and it could go on well meanwhile global warming proceeds on its inexorable course during this millennium every single year with one exception has been hotter than the last one the there are recent scientific papers James Hansen and others which indicate that the pace of global warming which has been increasing since about 1980 may be sharply escalating and may be moving from linear growth to exponential growth which means doubling every couple of case we're already approaching the conditions of 125,000 years ago when this the sea level was about roughly 25 feet higher than it is today with the melting the rapid melting of the Antarctic huge ice fields we might that point might be reached the consequences that are almost unimaginable I mean I won't even try to depict them that you can figure out quickly what that means well meanwhile while this is going on you regularly read in the press euphoric accounts of how the United States is advancing and fossil fuel production snow surpassed Saudi Arabia were in the lead of fossil fuel production the big banks JP Morgan Chase and others are pouring money into new investments in fossil fuels looting the most dangerous like Canadian tar sands and this is all presented with great euphoria excitement we're now reaching energy independence we could control the world Turman the use of fossil fuels and the world barely a word on what the meaning of this is which is quite obvious it's not that the reporters commentators don't know about it that the CEO of the banks don't know about it of course they do but these are kind of institutional pressures that just are extremely hard to extricate themselves from you can put yourself and they try to put yourself in the position of the say the CEO of JPMorgan Chase the biggest gem bank which is spending large sums and investment in fossil fuels he certainly knows everything that you all know about global warming it's no secret but what are the choices basically has two choices the one choice is to do exactly what he's doing the other choice is to resign and be replaced by somebody else will do exactly what he's doing it's not an individual problem it's an institutional problem which can be met but only under tremendous public pressure and the secondi we've recently seen very dramatically how it can how the solution can be reached a group of young people sunrise movement organised got to the point of sitting in congressional offices aroused some interest on from the new progressive figures who were able to make it to Congress under a lot of popular pressure Alexandria or Cassino Cortez joined by Ed Markey actually placed the green new deal on the agenda that's a remarkable achievement of course it's hostile attacks from everywhere doesn't matter it's a couple of years ago it was unimaginable that it would be discussed as a result of the activism of this group of young people it's no right in the center of the agenda it's got to be implemented in one form or another it's essential for survival maybe not exactly that form but some modification of a tremendous change achieved by the commitment of a small group of young people that tells you the kind can be [Applause] meanwhile the Doomsday Clock of The Bulletin of Atomic Scientists last January was set at 2 minutes to midnight that's closest it's been two terminal disasters since 1947 the announcement of the settlement of the setting mentioned the two major familiar threats the threat of nuclear war his increasing threat of global warming which is increasing further and it added a third for the first time the undermining of democracy that's the third threat along with global warming and nuclear war and that was quite appropriate because functioning democracy offers the only hope of overcoming these threats they're not going to be dealt with by major institutions state or private acting without massive public pressure which means that the the means of democratic functioning have to be kept alive used the way the sunshine movement did it the way the great mass demonstration in the early eighties did it and the way we continue today this is democracy now I'm Amy Goodman in Boston as we sit down with Noam Chomsky for a public conversation I asked him about the arrest of Julian Assange well the Assange arrest is scandalous and several respects one of them is just the effort of governments and it's not just the US government the British are cooperating Ecuador of course is now cooperating Sweden before had cooperated the efforts to silence a journalist who was producing materials that people in power didn't want cut the rascal multitude to know about okay that's basically what happened WikiLeaks was producing things that people ought to know about those in power people in power don't like that so therefore we have to silence it okay this is the kind of thing the kind of scandal that takes place unfortunately over and over to take another example right next door to Ecuador in Brazil with the developments that have gone on are extremely important this is the most important country in Latin America and one of the most important in the world under the Lula government early in this millennium Brazil was the most maybe the most respected country in the world it was the voice for the global South under the leadership of Lula da Silva notice what happened there was a coup soft who to eliminate the nefarious effects of the Labour Party the Workers Party these are described by the World Bank not me the World Bank as the golden decade in Brazil's history with radical reduction of poverty massive extension of inclusion of marginalized populations large parts of the population afro-brazilian indigenous who were brought into the society a sense of dignity and hope for the population that couldn't be tolerated after after he left office kind of a soft food take place I won't go through the details but the last move last September was to take the Lula da Silva the leading the most popular figure in Brazil who was almost certain to win the forthcoming election put him in jail solitary confinement essentially a death sentence 25 years in jail banned from reading press or books and crucially barred from making a public statement unlike mass murderers on death row this in order to silence the person who was likely to win the election he's the most important political political prisoner in the world the DT here or anything about it well Assange is a similar case we've got a silence this voice you go back to history some of you may recall when Mussolini's fascist government put Antonio Gramsci in jail they said the prosecutor said we have to silence this voice for 20 years can't let it be speak that's Assange that's Lula there are other cases that's one scandal the other scandal is just the extraterritorial reach of the United States which is shocking I mean why should the United States why should any no other state could possibly do it but why should the United States have the power to control what others are doing elsewhere in the world I mean it's outlandish situation takes it goes on all the time we never even know at least there's no comment on it I take the trade agreements with China okay what are the trade agreements about there are an effort to prevent China's economic development that's exactly what they are the China has a development model the the Trump administration doesn't like it so therefore let's undermine it ask yourself what would happen if China did not observe the rules that the United States is trying to impose China for example when Boeing or Microsoft the some other major company invest in China China wants to have some control over the nature of the investment they want some degree of technology transfer they should gain something from the technology is there something wrong with that that's how the United States developed stealing technology we call stealing technology from England so England developed the taking technology for more advanced countries India the Low Countries even Ireland that's how every developed country has reached the stage of advanced development if Boeing and Microsoft don't like those arrangements they don't have to invest in China nobody has a gun to their heads if you really if anybody really believed in capitalism they should be free to make any arrangement they want with China if it involves technology transfer okay the United States wants to block that so China can't develop take what are called intellectual property rights suppose exorbitant patent rights and for medicines windows for example bill Microsoft has a monopoly on operating systems through the World Trade Organization suppose China didn't observe these who would benefit and who would lose well the fact of the matter is that consumers in the United States would benefit it would mean that they get cheaper medicines it would mean that when you get a computer you wouldn't be stuck with Windows you could get a better operating system Bill Gates would have a little less money the pharmaceutical corporations wouldn't be a super rich as they are a little less rich but the consumers would benefit is there something wrong with that well you might ask yourself what's what lies behind all of these discussions and negotiations this is true across the board almost any issue you pick you can ask yourself why is this accepted so in this case why is it acceptable for the United States to have the power to even begin to protect to give even a proposal to extradite somebody whose crime is to expose to the public materials that people in power don't want us don't want them to see that's basically what's happening know what about what's happened in Israel Prime Minister Netanyahu winning a record fifth term right before the election he announces that he will annex illegal Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank last month Trump officially recognized Israeli sovereignty over the Golan Heights well first of all if mr. if Bennigan's had been elected instead of Netanya the difference would not be very great the difference between the two candidates is not substantial in terms of policy netanyahu here's another example of the extraterritorial reach of the united states netanyahu is somewhat more extreme the united states desperately wanted him to be elected and the trump administration has been giving gift after gift than netanyahu to try to get him elected it was enough to carry him over the roughly 50/50 close to 50/50 election but one of them of course was to move the embassy to jerusalem in violation of not only international law but even the Security Council resolutions that the US had participated in very dramatic change the second equally dramatic was to authorize Israeli annexation of the Golan Heights the Syrian Golan Heights are under international law occupied territory Israel every major institution as every relevant institution Security Council International Court of Justice all agree on this Israel did formally annex the Golan Heights but the Security Council UN Security Council with the u.s. participating declared that no long okay Trump unilaterally reversed it another gift that Netanyahu saying try to demonstrate to the Israeli public that with us backing he can get anything they want the last was Trump's latest just before the election declaration that if elected he would next parts of the West Bank that was with tacit you with us authorization these are measure strong measures that were taken to interfere radically with a foreign election have you heard something about how terrible it is to interfere and for elections I think maybe that you notice that somewhere here it's done radically it's considered fine but exactly what are the actual consequences of that in terms of the way policy has been evolving fact of the matter is not much so take the annexation of the Golan Heights in fact it was declared null and void by the Security Council it was condemned by the International Court of Justice but did anybody do anything about it has any move been made to prevent Israel's development of the Golan Heights establishment of settlements enterprises development of the ski resorts on Mount Hermon anything no nobody lifted a finger and nobody lifted a finger for a simple reason the US won't allow it nobody says that but that's the fact well now it's formally authorized instead of just happening take the Netanyahu proposal to annex parts of the West Bank that's been going on for 50 years literally right after the 67 war both political parties both major groupings in Israel then former labor based party Likud based part conglomerate they have slightly different policies but essentially they have been carrying out a development program in the West Bank which is geared towards the goal the very clear goal of creating what will be a kind of Greater Israel in which Israel will take over whatever is a value in the West Bank leave the Palestinian population concentrations like in Nablus and tolk arm leave them isolated in the rest of the region there are maybe 150 or so little Palestinian enclaves more or less surrounded by checkpoints often separated from their fields able to survive but barely meanwhile the Jewish settlements or developed cities have been constructed major city mall de Dieu meme constructed mostly under Clinton and some Templi under the Clinton years east of Jerusalem the road to it essentially bisects the West Bank further ones up north Jerusalem itself has maybe five times the size of what it ever was historically all of these are linked by highly developed infrastructure projects you can take a trip you can't read these are it's basically creating a pleasant suburbs of the of Tel Aviv and Jerusalem in the West Bank you can travel from malla do meme to Tel Aviv on a big highway restricted to Israelis and tourists not Palestinians more easily than you can get from the South Shore to Boston never seeing an hour all of this has been steadily developed year after year with tacit us u.s. provides the diplomatic support a lot of the economic support the military aid meanwhile the government says we don't like it stop doing it but providing the means for it well the only difference in Netanyahu's statement with Trump's tacit backing is I'm going to go ahead and the next annex all of this instead of just developing it subject to eventual annexation these are the real things that have been happening the Netanyahu the Netanyahu victory as I mentioned before solidifies an alliance that is being that has been developed it's been parts of it have been kind of undercover for years not formal but functioning now coming into the open of the most reactionary Arab States primarily Saudi Arabia one of the most reactionary states in the world Egypt under the Sisi dictatorship the worst dictatorship in Egypt's history United Arab Emirates similar Israel right in the center of it it's part of the the international right-wing alliance system of the International reactionary ultra nationalist Alliance system that's taking shape with the US leadership the kind of a new global system that's developing South America's other bowls tomorrow's another part of it and yet in the United States there's this growing awareness we for example the Democratic Republican vote against Saudi Arabia UAE s war in Yemen fueled by the United States does that give you hope very interesting development that's actually Bernie Sanders its what notice and it's it is a very important development but let's notice what happened the suti the united arab emirate war and yemen has been a hideous atrocity this probably nobody knows maybe sixty seventy thousand people killed half the population barely surviving that's the UN describes it as the worst humanitarian disaster in the world it's a real monstrosity it's been going on year after year using Saudi Arabia UAE or using US weapons secondarily British weapons a US intelligence support the US intelligence directly we're working closely with the Saudis to target bombing so on and so forth all of this has been happening with no protest then came the Khashoggi killing brutal killing of a journalist for The Washington Post that caused outrage okay it should have but you know that's not the reason why the Yemen war should have suddenly had the spotlight signed on it shined on it but it was then Bernie Sanders came along with a couple of others and initiated the legislation which puts some crimps and the you direct you a support for the war which is significant but we should put it in the context of what in fact happened and I think I think we can be pretty confident that the Trump unpayable triumvirate will find a way around it keep the war going unless the public seriously protests now there is something else to pay it that's worth paying attention to the support for Israeli expansionism repression the whole alliance that's developing that support has shifted in the United States from the more liberal sectors roughly the Democratic Party to the far-right not very long ago support for Israel was based passionately in the liberal sectors of the population it was a democratic issue it isn't anymore in fact if you look at in the polls people who identify themselves as liberal as Democrats by now tend to support Palestinian rights more than Israel that's a dramatic change it's it's a support for Israel now is in the most reactionary parts of the population evangelical Christians all from nationalists basically it's a far-right issue among younger people this is even more of the case I mean I've I can see it myself just my own personal experience up until about maybe 10 or 15 years ago if I was giving a talk at a university on Israel Palestine even my own university MIT I had to have police protection literally police would try to prevent the meeting from being broken up they wouldn't let me walk to my car alone I had to be accompanied by police a meetings were broken up nobody was objecting to any of this was happening all the time that's changed totally that's a very significant change I think that sooner or later I hope sooner this may lead to a shift in US policy there's some very simple moves that could be made in the US policy that would change the situation in the Middle East dramatically so for example one simple proposal is that the United States government should live up the US law that doesn't sound too dramatic though the United States has laws like the so called lay law Patrick Leigh law which requires that no military aid can be given to any military organization that is involved in systematic human rights abuses well the Israeli army is involved in massive human rights abuses if the US were to live up to US law we would cut off aid to the IDF the Israeli army that step alone would have a major effect not just the material aid but the symbolic meaning of it and it's quite possible that with the shift of public opinion especially among younger people there might come a point when there will be a call for the United States to follow its own laws okay again not a very it wouldn't even be breaking new ground Noam Chomsky we spoke at the Old South Church Thursday night he was visiting his longtime home of Boston he was a professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology for over 50 years at the end of the event we celebrated his 90th birthday speaking of which a very happy birthday to Anna Oh's Beck and Joe Parker special thanks today to Mike fer John Hamilton KS video Denis Moynihan and I'm Amy Goodman from Boston thanks so much for joining us

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Views: 227,250

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Keywords: noam chomsky, democracy now, geopolitical

Id: Ywb9kTpkIjw

Length: 45min 45sec (2745 seconds)

Published: Sat Apr 13 2019