♪ [THEME MUSIC] ♪ >>> AND HELLO AND THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US TODAY, I'M CAROL JENKINS, THE PROGRAM IS "BLACK AMERICA." IT'S OUR PLEASURE TO WELCOME DR. EDDIE GLAUDE JR., CHAIR OF THE DEPARTMENT CENTER FOR AFRICAN-AMERICAN STUDIES AT PRINCETON UNIVERSITY. DR. GLAUDE IS THE AUTHOR OF DEMOCRACY IN BLACK: HOW RACE STILL ENSLAVES THE AMERICAN SOUL. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE TODAY. WE'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY FOR, TO HAVE YOU TELL US, WHAT DO WE DO NOW? A SIMPLE QUESTION, DOCTOR. >> WE HAVE TO TELL OURSELVES, A DIFFERENT STORY ABOUT HOW WE GOT TO THIS MOMENT AND FACE THE TRUTH OF WHAT IS IN FRONT OF US. AND THAT IS TO MOBILIZING AND ORGANIZE IN ORDER TO FIGHT FOR A MORE JUST SOCIETY. AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT THOSE PARTICULARS. >> WE ALWAYS START BY ASKING OUR GUESTS TO PLACE THEMSELVES IN BLACK AMERICA, IT'S MISSISSIPPI. >> COUNTRY BOY. >> COUNTRY BOY. >> COUNTRY BOY FROM THE COAST IN A SMALL TOWN NAMED MOSS POINT, NAMED FOR THE MOSS DANGLING FROM THE MAGNOLIA TREES. >> AND YOUR DAD WORKED FOR THE POST OFFICE. >> SECOND AFRICAN-AMERICAN HIRED AT THE POST OFFICE IN PASCAGOULA, MISSISSIPPI. AND DECIDED TO MOVE HIS KIDS FROM ONE SIDE OF TOWN TO THE OTHER. >> NOW WHERE YOU WERE LIVING IT WAS SUBJECT TO FLOODING. YOU TALKED ABOUT THAT AND WRITE ABOUT THAT. >> WE LIVED IN A SMALL NEIGHBORHOOD AND EVERY TIME IT RAINED, IT WOULD FLOOD, I MEAN LITERALLY. YOU COULD LITERALLY WADE IN THE WATER. AND IT HAD EVERYTHING TO DO WITH BAD PIPES, A LOT OF FOLKS WORKED AT THE PAPER MILL THAT'S NOW CLOSED AND THE SHIPYARDS AND CHEVRON AND HOUSES WERE SMALLER. THE SIDEWALKS WEREN'T PAVED. THE BASEBALL DIAMOND WASN'T CUT REGULARLY. THEN WE MOVED TO THE OTHER SIDE OF TOWN AND THINGS WERE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. >> THINGS WERE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. SO WHAT, WHAT PROPELLED YOUR DAD TO DO THIS? IT'S ALWAYS INTERESTING, THAT KEY OF HAD YOU STAYED IN THAT PART OF TOWN YOU MIGHT HAVE BEEN A DIFFERENT EDDIE GLAUDE. >> YEAH, I MEAN I THINK MY DAD IS BRILLIANT IN EVERY WAY. COMPLICATED MAN, BUT HE'S BRILLIANT. AND YOU KNOW, HE WENT OFF, LEFT HOME EARLY LIKE I DID, RUNNING AWAY FROM HIS FATHER, LIKE I DID. WENT TO THE NAVY. AND CAME BACK AND HAD MASSIVE AMBITION. BUT HIM AND MY MOTHER AS CHILDREN, HAD CHILDREN SO MY MOTHER WAS PREGNANT WITH MY OLDER SISTER, AT AND HAD HER IN THE NINTH GRADE AND MY FATHER WENT OFF TO THE SERVICE AND CAME BACK HOME AND RAISED FOUR KIDS. TWO OF WHOM WEREN'T HIS, BUT THEY ARE MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS, BUT HE RAISED THEM WITH HIS NAME AND HE SAW THAT WE WERE ALL REALLY, REALLY TALENTED. AND THAT BRILLIANCE AND AMBITION EVIDENCED ITSELF IN IMAGINING A BETTER LIFE FOR HIS KIDS. SO I REMEMBER GROWING UP, WE WOULD HAVE TO LINE UP OUTSIDE OF THE LIVING ROOM AND HE WOULD CALL US IN EACH, ONE BY ONE AND ASK TO SEE OUR REPORT CARDS. AND MY SISTER GRADUATED VALEDICTORIAN OF OUR HIGH SCHOOL AND WENT OFF TO SPELMAN AND I CAME BEHIND HER AND WENT OFF TO MOOREHOUSE AND MY BROTHER WAS A FULL TIME RETIRED SERVICE MEMBER OF THE AIR FORCE AND MY OLDEST SISTER, THE FIRST BORN. MY MOTHER HAD GERMAN MEASLES AND SHE'S STILL HOME, SEVERELY HANDICAPPED AND MY MOTHER IS STILL CARING FOR HER, 54 YEARS. >> AND YOU RAN AWAY FROM YOUR DAD? >> MY DAD IS A FORCEFUL, FORCEFUL, COMPLICATED GUY. YOU KNOW. I'VE BEEN AS JIMMY, JAMES BALDWIN GRAPPLED WITH HIS STEP-FATHER, I'VE BEEN GRAPPLING WITH THIS OVERWHELMING PRESENCE IN MY LIFE SINCE WAYS A YOUNG KID AND I LOOK EXACTLY LIKE HIM AND I WAS DEATHLY AFRAID OF HIM. BECAUSE HIS RAGES WERE -- WERE PRONOUNCED. AND DEEPLY FELT. HE COULD JUST LOOK AT YOU AND YOU WERE SHUDDER ON THE DEEP INSIDE. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I GET MY DISCIPLINE FROM HIM. I GET MY RESOLVE FROM HIM. I REMEMBER IN THE FOURTH GRADE I WAS IN MISS DAVIS' CLASS AND I THOUGHT SHE WAS BEING A BIT RACIST. AND I REMEMBER JUMPING UP AND YELLING, "YOU'RE A RACIST." AND I WALKED OUT OF HER CLASS AND MY DAD DIDN'T TOLERATE THAT KIND OF BEHAVIOR, LEAVING CLASS, THAT IS. AND I WENT HOME THINKING I WAS GOING TO GET KILLED. AND HE ASKED ME, WHAT DID SHE DO? AND I TOLD HIM, AND HE SAID EVERY TIME SOMEONE DOES THAT TO YOU, YOU DO THE EXACT SAME THING. >> AND YOU'VE BEEN DOING THAT EVER SINCE, JUST LAST WEEK. PERHAPS JUST THIS MORNING. >> I'VE BEEN TRYING TO LIVE UP TO THAT CROWN HE PUT ON ME. >> FROM MOOREHOUSE TO -- >> THAT, THAT LEAP FROM MOOREHOUSE TO PRINCETON, HIGHLY PRESTIGIOUS PROFESSORSHIP, IN AFRICAN-AMERICAN STUDIES AND RELIGION, HOW DID YOU MAKE THAT CONNECTION? >> I'VE ALWAYS BEEN SOMEONE WHO LOVES THE SOLITUDE OF READING. SOMEONE WHO REVELS IN THE LIFE OF THE MIND. I WAS AT TEMPLE AT THE TIME AND I WAS HAVING A DIFFICULT TIME AT TEMPLE IN THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN STUDIES DEPARTMENT. I WENT OVERSEAS TO STUDY WITH THE LATE GREAT STUART HALL AND I WAS PART OF READING EVERY DAY, PORTIONS OF THE BLACK BRITISH INVASION. I WAS AT A CONFERENCE IN UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN, MADISON, AFRICAN-AMERICAN STUDIES. SKIP GATES WAS THERE, ASANTE. MOLEFI ASANTE, THE LATE MANNI MARBLE. ARNOLD RAMPERSAD, NELL PAINTER AND I DELIVERED A PAPER AS A GRADUATE STUDENT AND CORNELL WEST HEARD IT. >> WHEN HE WAS AT PRINCETON. WAS HE AT PRINCETON AT THE TIME? >> ASKED ME TO COME STUDY WITH HIM. >> THERE YOU GO. >> THAT'S THE CONNECTION. >> THAT IS THE CONNECTION. >> YEAH. >> SO I KNOW THAT SO NOW WE KNOW WHERE CALLING A RACIST A RACIST COMES FROM. BUT YOU'VE CALLED DONALD TRUMP A NEOFASCIST. TELL US, WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT AND WHAT DO WE DO WITH THAT? >> WE HAVE TO LOOK AT HOW HE CAME INTO OFFICE. WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE WAYS IN WHICH HE EXPLOITED OUR FEARS. HIS OWN UNDERSTANDING OF GOVERNANCE THAT IS NOT IN SOME WAYS COMMITTED TO THE INSTITUTIONS OF DEMOCRACY. THE WAYS IN WHICH HE FIGURES HIMSELF AS KIND OF A STRONG MAN WHO IS GOING TO RESOLVE THE PROBLEMS THAT HE TAKES TO BE AT THE HEART OF THE COUNTRY. HE LOOKS LIKE A LOT OF THE FIGURES OF TOTALITARIANISM. HIS RELATIONSHIP TO THE PRESS. HOW HE USES DELIBERATIVE SPACE FOR PARTICULAR SORTS OF ENDS. AND HE'S NEO, IN THE SENSE THAT IT'S NOT KIND OF BLATANT FASCISM, IN THE OLD SENSE OF MUSSOLINI AND HITLER, RIGHT? IT'S THE WAY HE TAKES ADVANTAGE OF POPULAR MEDIA TO PRODUCE A CERTAIN KIND OF IMAGE OF HIMSELF AND A CERTAIN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A PART OF A SOCIETY WHERE THE CITIZENS, THE NOTION OF CITIZENSHIP TO MY MIND IS GUTTED. AND WHAT WE GET INSTEAD ARE FOLLOWERS. FANS. >> SO AS CITIZENS, WE'RE FOLLOWERS OR NOT. >> FOLLOWERS OR NOT. SO THIS KIND OF THE POPULISM FROM THE RIGHT, IT'S ALWAYS BEEN SO UGLY IN THIS COUNTRY. AND WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THAT POPULISM HAS BEEN CHANNELED TO A FIGURE, A PERSONALITY LIKE DONALD TRUMP. AND TO MY MIND, YOU HAVE TO START TELLING THE TRUTH. YOU CAN'T TRY TO NORMALIZE THE GUY. WE CAN'T TRY TO MAKE HIM SOMETHING THAT HE'S NOT. WHAT IS HE, TO MY MIND, IS A NEOFACIST. >> WHAT DOES BLACK AMERICA DO IN THAT? I GET THE FEELING THAT BLACK AMERICA HAS RECEDED AS, AS A TOPIC, AS AN ISSUE, AS A CONCERN, AS WE'VE GRAPPLED WITH THIS HUGE PERSONALITY. >> DO YOU FEEL THAT AS WELL? >> IT WAS PRECEDED BY AN EXPLICIT CONVERSATION, IN SOME WAYS THAT BEGAN WITH PRESIDENT OBAMA AT THE LEVEL OF POLICY, RIGHT? SO IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA TO ADDRESS THE CIRCUMSTANCES, THE PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCES OF BLACK PEOPLE, WITHOUT BEING ACCUSED OF ENGAGING IN THIS, YOU KNOW, DISPROPORTIONATE TREATMENT, UNFAIR TREATMENT OF WHITE FOLKS IN THAT SENSE. BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT SESSIONS IS DOING, IN THE DOJ, CALL THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHOULD NOT INTERVENE IN LOCAL POLICE ENFORCEMENT OR LAW ENFORCEMENT MATTERS. OR WHAT YOU LOOK AT WHAT SESSIONS HAS DONE WITH REGARDS TO WANTING TO REVIEW THE AGREEMENTS SET UP WITH LOCAL POLICE FORCES LIKE THAT IN FERGUSON AND BALTIMORE. >> THE MILITARIZATION. >> THE CONTINUED MILITARIZATION. WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT EXECUTIVE ORDERS. WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE WAY IN WHICH THEY'RE GOVERNING BLACK FOLK ALL OVER THE PLACE. WE'RE BEING THOUGHT ABOUT, JUST NOT IN ANY DIRECT AND SPECIFIC WAY. I THINK PART OF WHAT WE HAVE TO DO IS KIND OF LOOK AT WHERE WE ARE, UNDERSTAND OUR LOCAL POLITICS, UNDERSTAND WHAT IT MEANS TO BE ORGANIZED. IN RELATION TO THOSE ISSUES THAT ARE RIGHT IN FRONT OF US AND BEGIN TO CHALLENGE. AS ACTIVELY AND DIRECTLY AS WE CAN, RIGHT? THE STATUS QUO. >> YOU TALK ABOUT LOCAL. BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S WHERE ALL OF THIS IS GOING. I JUST WANT TO BACKTRACK FOR A MINUTE TO THE ELECTION AND I KNOW WE NEED TO LOOK FORWARD AS OPPOSED TO BACK. YOU AND YOUR SON LANGSTON ON "DEMOCRACY NOW" WITH AMY GOODMAN, HAVE THIS ADVICE, VOTING ADVICE THAT WAS SOMEWHAT PROVOCATIVE AT THE TIME. LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THAT. >> I BELIEVE IN THE PLANET IS WARMING, I DO, I'M NOT A CLIMATE CHANGE DENIER, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT MY HOUSE AND LOOK AT MY CAR AND LOOK AT THE LIGHT BULBS IN MY HOUSE, YOU WILL THINK I THINK THE PLANET IS OKAY. I'M MAKING CHOICES DAY IN AND DAY OUT THAT CONTRIBUTE TO THE WARMING OF THE PLANET. BUT I'M NOT RUNNING AROUND LOUDLY SAYING, NO, NO, THE SCIENCE IS WRONG. THAT'S JUST THE WAY RACIAL INEQUALITY WORKS. IT'S NOT ABOUT INTENTIONAL PREJUDICE, IT'S ABOUT A CULTURAL PRACTICE, PROFESSOR IMANI PERRY SAYS. >> I WANT TO END BY ASKING YOU AND LANGSTON ABOUT YOUR CHOICE FOR PRESIDENT. BERNIE SANDERS JUST ENDORSED HILLARY CLINTON AND YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT. AND THEN WE'LL HAVE A POST-SHOW QUESTION. >> I BELIEVE IN SEEING THAT WONDERFUL NOVEL WRITTEN BY A PORTUGUESE WRITER, NOBEL PRIZE WINNER 1996 THAT WE SHOULD BLANK OUT. THAT THOSE OF US WHO ARE NOT IN THE BATTLEGROUND STATES, THAT THOSE OF US WHO ARE IN BLUE STATES OR RED STATES THAT WE SHOULD JUST LEAVE THE BALLOT BLANK. I AS MELVILLE'S BARNABY SCRIVENER SAYS, I PREFER NOT. I CAN'T STAND EITHER ONE OF THEM. >> LANGSTON, YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE ELECTION? >> I AGREE 100%. THERE NEEDS TO BE A STANCE AMONGST THE PEOPLE THAT WE ARE NOT GOING TO SPLIM ACCEPT THE STATUS QUO ANY LONGER. ESPECIALLY WHEN THE STATUS QUO IS THE VERY THING THAT IS COSTING OUR LIVES AND OUR LIVELIHOODS, SO I PERSONALLY DON'T FIND EITHER ONE OF THE CANDIDATES FAVORABLE IN ANY SENSE, BECAUSE AGAIN A CHANGE NEEDS TO COME ON BEHALF OF THE PEOPLE AND I DON'T BELIEVE EITHER ONE IS PREPARED TO BRING THAT CHANGE. >> YOU'RE PROUD OF YOUR SON, LANGSTON AT BROWN UNIVERSITY. SO HOLY SMOKES, EDDIE, YOU KNOW, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS, IF NOT MILLIONS OF PEOPLE SEEM TO HAVE DONE EXACTLY THAT. THEY MAY HAVE VOTED DOWN-TICKET, BUT LEFT THE PRESIDENTIAL PIECE OF THAT OUT. SO LOOK WHAT WE GOT. I MEAN DO YOU RETHINK THAT? >> NO, I DON'T, ACTUALLY. I THINK WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THE ELECTION FOR WHAT IT IS. AND THE ELECTION, WHITE FOLKS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR DONALD TRUMP, NOT BLACK FOLKS. I WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT THAT. IT SEEMS TO ME WHEN WE LOOK AT THE FACT THAT HILLARY CLINTON BEAT HIM BY THREE MILLION POPULAR VOTES, ACTUAL VOTES, WHEN WE THINK ABOUT YOUNG FOLK IN SOME WAYS, WHAT HAPPENED TO HILLARY CLINTON, AND HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH YOUNG VOTERS, VOTING THIRD PARTY. HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH VOTER SUPPRESSION. IN PLACES LIKE NORTH CAROLINA, VOTER I.D. LAWS IN PLACES LIKE WISCONSIN. HAD EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE POLICIES OF THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN. AND THE BACKLASH. SO WHAT WE, WHAT I WAS SAYING WAS THAT THE ONLY THING THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAD TO DO, THE ONLY THING THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAD TO DO WAS COME OUT WITH AN EXPLICIT AGENDA TO ADDRESS THE SUFFERING OF BLACK PEOPLE. ROLL IT OUT IN DETAIL AND CONVINCE US THAT NOT JUST YOU HAVE HOT SAUCE IN YOUR PURSE, OR NOT JUST SIMPLY CUTTING, TRYING TO DO THE -- >> FAMOUS -- >> TRYING TO DANCE OR DO WHATEVER. KIND OF APPEALING A EMOTIONS, LET'S LOOK AT THE POLICY ISSUES AND THEN WE CAN MOBILIZE. THE WHAT WE SAW WAS THE CORPORATE FACE OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. AND WHAT RESULTED WAS A KIND OF, A KIND OF CHOICE THAT WAS MADE BY NOT GOING TO THE POLLS. OVER 40% OF AMERICANS DIDN'T VOTE AT ALL. AND THEN YOU LOOK AT REPUBLICANS ON THE OTHER SIDE, THERE WERE LARGE NUMBER OF REPUBLICANS WHO OPTED OUT AS WELL. THEY DIDN'T LIKE THE CHOICES. SO I THINK WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE FUNDAMENTALS, THIS WASN'T A WORKING, WHITE WORKING-CLASS REBELLION. CORNELL BROOKS LATEST BOOK LET'S US KNOW THAT'S NOT WHAT HAPPENED. AND IN SOME WAYS WHAT HAPPENED IS THAT YOUNG FOLK DECIDED THAT THEY WERE GOING TO VOTE THIRD PARTY. THAT BLACK VOTERS DECIDED NOT TO TURN OUT. VOTES WERE SUPPRESSED AND HILLARY CLINTON IN SOME WAYS FAILED, HER CAMPAIGN FAILED. AND OF COURSE -- >> EVEN THOUGH BARACK OBAMA POLITICKED FOR HER, BEGGED PEOPLE TO VOTE FOR HER, THEY DID NOT FOLLOW. WHAT WAS THE DISCONNECT. >> I WAS HEARTENED BY THAT. OFTENTIMES THERE'S THIS SENSE THAT FOLK TREAT US LIKE WE'RE CATTLE CHEWING CUD. THAT'S ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS PUT SOME FIGURE, BEYONCE IN FRONT OF US OR LeBRON JAMES, IN FRONT OF US OR BARACK OBAMA IN FRONT OF US AND WE'RE JUST GOING TO FOLLOW THE CELEBRITY FIGURE. WE'RE GOING TO FOLLOW THE LEADER. AND WHAT WE SAW IS THAT THAT KIND OF CELEBRITY DOESN'T REALLY, DIDN'T IN THIS INSTANCE, SPEAK TO THE SUFFERING THAT BLACK COMMUNITIES WERE IN FACT AND STILL ARE EXPERIENCING. WE NEEDED SOME MORE CONTENT. AND I THINK AS LONG AS THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY TREAT US AS IF WE'RE CATTLE CHEWING CUD, TO BE HERDED TO THE POLLS EVERY TWO AND FOUR YEARS, WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO SEW THIS KIND OF RESPONSE. >> THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE. DID YOU ACTUALLY CALL BARACK OBAMA A SNAKE OIL SALESMAN? WHAT QUOTE WAS THAT? >> I LOVE HERMAN MELVILLE. AND IT CAME FROM MELVILLE'S "THE CONFIDENCE MAN." I SAID HE'S A MELVILLIAN CONFIDENCE MAN SELLING THE SNAKE OIL OF HOPE AND CHANGE. I GOT IN A LOT OF TROUBLE. >> I KNOW, A LOT OF TROUBLE. WHAT, WHAT, WHAT, YOU STILL STAND BY IT? >> YEAH. PART OF WHAT I SAY IS THAT YOU KNOW IT'S IMPORTANT, IT WAS IMPORTANT, THAT WE ELECTED AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN TO BE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. THAT'S MY BABY. THAT GROWN MAN GREW UP WITH THE BLACK MAN IN THE WHITE HOUSE. BUT HE ALSO GREW UP WITH TAMIR RICE, MIKE BROWN, ERIC GARNER, SANDRA BLAND. HE HAD TO COME TO TERMS WITH THE CONTRADICTION THAT HE'S ALSO GROWN UP WITH THE FACT THAT STUDENT LOAN DEBT HAS SURPASSED CREDIT CARD DEBT. HE'S GROWN UP WITH THE FUNDAMENTALS OF BLACK LIFE, RIGHT, LITERALLY, UNSTABLE IN EVERY SHAPE, FORM OR FASHION. GREW UP IN THE CONTEXT OF THE HOUSING CRISIS. WHERE EIGHT YEARS OF POLICY DIDN'T ADDRESS THE RACIAL DIMENSIONS OF THE FACT THAT BLACK AMERICA HAS LOST WEALTH AT A LEVEL WE HAVEN'T SEEN SINCE THE COLLAPSE OF THE FRIEDMAN'S BANK. WHAT I WAS SAYING ABOUT BARACK OBAMA IS ONCE THE REPUBLICANS TOOK OVER CONGRESS AND ONCE MITCH McCONNELL SAID THAT HIS OBJECTIVE WAS TO MAKE HIM A ONE-TERM PRESIDENT, ONCE HE SAW ALL OF THE BLACK -- I WANTED HIM TO GO BIG, I WANTED HIM TO GO BOLD. TO PUT FORTH AN AGENDA THAT COULD CHANGE THE COURSE OF THE NATION AND HE DIDN'T DO IT. AND THE QUESTION IS WHY, WE HAVE TO ASK THAT QUESTION. >> YOU SOUND A LOT LIKE DONALD TRUMP, THAT'S WHAT HE SAYS ABOUT BLACK AMERICA THAT WE'RE IN SUCH BAD SHAPE, WE'RE BLEAK, THE SITUATION IS BLEAK, ET CETERA. YOU'RE SAYING ESSENTIALLY THE SAME THING THAT DONALD TRUMP. WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN? >> WELL YOU KNOW, DONALD TRUMP, YOU CAN TRADE IN STEREOTYPES, ALL STEREOTYPES HAVE A MODICUM OF TRUTH. CHANGE THE JOKE, SLIP THE YOKE. I KNOW DONALD TRUMP BRINGS UP THOSE ISSUES ONLY TO CONFIRM CERTAIN PREJUDICES ABOUT BLACK FOLK. THAT WE CAN GET SHOT IN OUR NEIGHBORHOODS, THAT THERE'S NO CLASS DIFFERENTIATION WITHIN OUR THAT I'M NOT DOING WELL THAT WE'RE ALL SUFFERING IN THESE OPPORTUNITY DESERTS AS IT WERE. NOW TO REJECT TRUMP'S STEREOTYPICAL INVOCATION OF BLACK SUFFERING IS NOT TO DENY THE REALITY OF BLACK SUFFERING. I CAN TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT I'M WALKING AROUND IN MY BLUE GLASSES AND HICKEY FRIEDMAN SUIT. RIGHT? BUT AT THE SAME TIME I GOT TO BE ABLE TO TALK HONESTLY ABOUT THE FACT THAT PEOPLE ARE LOSING THEIR HOMES. THAT FOLKS ARE NOT JUST SIMPLY UNDEREMPLOYED, THAT SOME FOLKS HAVE SIMPLY DROPPED OUT OF THE ECONOMY. >> WHAT DO YOU CALL THE BLACK DEPRESSION. >> THE GREAT BLACK DEPRESSION. >> THAT WE'RE IN NOW. >> THAT WE'RE IN. AND EVERYBODY TALKS ABOUT HOW THE NATION CARED ABOUT THE ECONOMIC DEVASTATION OF 2008. WHEN IN FACT WE'RE STILL CATCHING HELL. >> AND YOU TELL THE STORY OF ONE WOMAN WHO LOST HER HOME AND POLICE CAME IN AND RAIDED. I MEAN OVER A FINANCIAL ISSUE AS IF SHE WERE A CRIMINAL. >> MY COLLEAGUE DOUG AND OTHERS WROTE AN EXTRAORDINARY PAPER DETAILING THE RACIAL DIMENSIONS OF THE HOUSING CRISIS. HOW PEOPLE WHO WOULD ORDINARILY BE, BLACK MIDDLE CLASS, WERE DIRECTED TO THESE VERY OBSCURE MORTGAGES THAT LEFT THEM IN THE LURCH. NOT THEY OVERREACHED AS CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER AND OTHERS WERE TALKING ABOUT, THAT THEY WERE LITERALLY TARGETED FOR THESE EXOTIC MORTGAGES. CHRISTINE WASN'T THAT, WASN'T EXACTLY THAT CASE, BUT WHAT HAPPENED WAS HER HUSBAND PASSED. OF DIABETES. SOMETHING THAT DISEASE THAT RAVAGES OUR COMMUNITIES. AND SHE FOUND HERSELF STRUGGLING TO KEEP UP WITH THE MORTGAGE. AND THEY IMPLORED THE POLICE, IMPLORED THE POLICE TO PULL THAT YOUNG MAN, THAT PHYSICIAN OFF THE AIRLINES, TO COME INTO HER HOUSE AT 2:00, 3:00 IN THE MORNING. PICK THE LOCK. KICK THEM OUT OF THE HOUSE, PICKED UP ALL OF THEIR BELONGINGS, A LIFETIME WORTH OF MEMORIES AND THREW IT OUT IN THE YARD. AND THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANY SPACE FOR HER. BUT THEY CALLED ANIMAL CONTROL. >> JUST EXTRAORDINARY. >> A PLACE FOR HER DOGS TO GO, BUT NOT FOR HER. >> YOUR BOOK, YOUR BOOK IS FASCINATING, BECAUSE YOU DON'T LAY BLAME ONLY ON WHITE AMERICA. YOU TALK ABOUT BLACK AMERICA'S RESPONSIBILITY IN ALL OF THIS. WE HAVE A CLIP OF YOU TALKING ABOUT WHITE SUPREMACY AND LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THAT AND THEN WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT ON THE OTHER SIDE. >> THE PHRASE WHITE SUPREMACY CONJURES UP IMAGES OF BAD MEN IN HOODED ROBES WHO BELIEVE IN WHITE POWER, BURNING CROSSES AND SCREAMING THE WORD, NIGGER, RIGHT? BUT THAT'S NOT QUITE WHAT I MEAN BY THAT PHRASE, RIGHT? ON A BROADER LEVEL WHITE SUPREMACY INVOLVES THE WAY A SOCIETY ORGANIZES ITSELF. AND WHAT AND WHOM IT CHOOSES TO VALUE. APARTHEID IN SOUTH AFRICA, THE JIM CROW SOUTH, NAZI GERMANY ARE CLEAR EXAMPLES OF WHITE SUPREMACY AND IN EACH CASE THE BELIEF THAT WHITE PEOPLE ARE VALUED MORE THAN NONWHITE PEOPLE SHAPED EVERY ASPECT OF SOCIAL AND POLITICAL LIFE. IT DETERMINED WHERE YOU LIVE, WHICH SCHOOLS YOU ATTENDED AND WHICH JOBS WERE AVAILABLE TO YOU AND REMINDED YOU DAILY OF YOUR STATUS AND STATION IN LIFE. AND THAT'S WHAT WHITE SUPREMACY IS. WITHOUT ALL THE BLUSTER, IT'S A SET OF PRACTICES INFORMED BY THE FUNDAMENTAL BELIEF THAT WHITE PEOPLE ARE VALUED MORE THAN OTHERS. NOW IN NO WAY DO WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY LIKE NAZI GERMANY OR APARTHEID SOUTH AFRICA. BUT WE DO LIVE IN A COUNTRY WHERE EVERY-DAY BLACK PEOPLE CONFRONT THE DAMNING REALITY THAT WE ARE LESS VALUED. >> SO THAT WE, THAT WE ARE LESS VALUABLE. WHAT YOU SAY IS THAT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE VALUE PIECE OF THIS IS THAT WE ACTED, AS BLACK AMERICANS OURSELVES. TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT. >> MY COLLEAGUE, IMANI PERRY AT PRINCETON. >> I LOVE HER. TRY TO GET HER ON THE SHOW. TELL HER. >> SHE WROTE AN EXTRAORDINARY BOOK "MORE BEAUTIFUL, MORE TERRIBLE." SHE SAID THAT WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT RACIAL INEQUALITY AS A CULTURAL PRACTICE. IT'S NOT JUST SIMPLY A DISTINCTION BETWEEN STRUCTURE AND INTENTION. THAT IT'S BOTH AND. AND THE WAY THAT WE PARSE THAT IS THE VALUE GAP. THE VALUE GAP IS THIS BELIEF THAT WHITE PEOPLE MATTER MORE THAN OTHERS AND THAT BELIEF ORGANIZES OUR SOCIAL AND POLITICAL ARRANGEMENTS AND THAT BELIEF IS NOT THE POSSESSION, SIMPLY ALLOWED RACISM. TO THINK IT IS AND THE POSSESSION OF LOUD RACISM IS TO LET US OFF THE HOOK. I BELIEVE THE PLANET IS GETTING WARMER. BY EVERY MEASURE THIS WAS THE HOTTEST YEAR ON RECORD, LAST YEAR. >> CRAZY WEATHER SEASON. >> LAST YEAR WAS THE HOTTEST YEAR ON RECORD. THE YEAR BEFORE THAT WAS THE HOTTEST YEAR ON RECORD. I BELIEVE THE PLANET IS WARMING AND I BELIEVE IT'S BECAUSE OF WHAT WE'RE DOING IN PART, HUMAN BEINGS ARE CONTRIBUTING TO IT. IF YOU LIVED IN MY HOUSE, YOU LOOK AT MY CAR, YOU LOOK AT MY LIGHT BULBS, YOU WOULD THINK THAT I THOUGHT THE PLANET WAS JUST FINE. THAT I WASN'T -- >> BECAUSE YOU HAVEN'T CHANGED YOUR BEHAVIOR. >> MY CHOICES ARE ARE REFLECTIVE OF A SET OF THE RULES THAT THE PLANET IS JUST FINE. THAT'S THE WAY RACIAL INEQUALITY IS REPRODUCED. PEOPLE ARE MAKING CHOICES. I WANT MY KIDS TO GO TO THE BEST SCHOOL. WHEN WE KNOW ACCORDING TO THE SOCIAL SCIENCES, WHEN WE HEAR THAT, THAT'S A PROXY FOR HOW MANY BLACK AND BROWN KIDS GO TO THAT SCHOOL. I WANT TO LIVE IN A SAFE NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE MY PROPERTY VALUES ARE STABLE. WE KNOW WHAT THAT IS. PEOPLE ARE MAKING CHOICES DAY IN AND DAY 0-OUT THAT WE PRODUCE THE COULD BE TEXT OF VALUE. IT'S SOCIALIZING US TO LIVE IN A WORLD WHERE WHITE PEOPLE ARE VALUED MORE THAN OTHERS. EVEN AS THEY SAY THEY ARE COMMITTED TO RACIAL EQUALITY, RIGHT? AND YOU LEARN RACIAL INEQUALITY BY DRIVING AROUND WHERE YOU LIVE. YOU CAN LITERALLY TURN A CORNER AND CROSS THE TRACK, YOU LEARN RACE SPATIALLY IN THE UNITED STATES. AND WHAT DO WE DO? >> WHAT DO WE -- I'M LOOKING FOR THE BLACK AMERICAN RESPONSE TO THIS. WHERE DO YOU THINK WE PUT OUR EFFORTS NOW TO CHANGE THIS, WHAT YOU AND DONALD TRUMP WOULD DESCRIBE AS BLEAK CONDITION FOR MANY BLACK AMERICANS? >> I CAN'T STAND TO BE LINKED TO DONALD TRUMP. >> I KNOW, I KNOW. AND I DEFINITELY -- KNOW THE DIFFERENCE. >> I THINK IT'S IT REQUIRES A, A BETTER NARRATIVE, A BETTER STORY OF WHERE WE ARE. GIVING US A FULLER ACCOUNT OF THE CURRENT MALAISE. AND TWO, IT REQUIRES REIMAGINING WHAT IS POSSIBLE. POLITICALLY. AND THAT'S GOING TO BE ORGANIZING. AND THAT'S GOING TO BE ORGANIZING AT THE LOCAL LEVEL. MY HEROINE IS MISS ELLA BAKER. "END OF DEMOCRACY IN BLACK", WHO'S INFORMING THE POLITICS. >> BEFORE YOU GO AND I HOPE YOU'LL COME BACK, WE ALWAYS ASK OUR GUESTS TO FINISH THE STATEMENT, STRENGTH AND POWER OF BLACK AMERICA LIES IN -- WHAT'S THAT FOR YOU. >> THE STRENGTH AND POWER OF BLACK AMERICA LIES IN US. WE ARE THE LEADERS, AS MISS BAKER SAID. WE ARE THE LEADERS WE'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR AND WE BELIEVE THAT. WE CAN CHANGE THE WORLD. >> AND THE LEADERS I KNOW IN THE BOOK YOU MENTIONED CHARLENE CARRUTHERS OF BYP 100 AS THE EXAMPLE OF THE FUTURE OF WHAT WE NEED. WHY AND SHE'S BEEN ON THE SHOW. WE ADORE HER AS WELL. >> BYP 100 IS UNASHAMEDLY LGBTQ ORGANIZATION AND UNASHAMEDLY BLACK ORGANIZATION. THEY WANT US TO UNDERSTAND IF WE ARE GOING TO CHANGE OUR NATION, WE HAVE TO CHANGE THE UNDERSTANDING OF WHO WE ARE AS A PEOPLE. WE HAVE TO BE MORE WELCOMING, MORE OPEN. WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE COMPLEXITY OF WHAT BLACK AMERICA ACTUALLY IS AND BEGIN TO ORGANIZE AND REFLECT THOSE IN OUR COMMUNITY WHO ARE, WHO ARE WHAT KATHY COHEN CALLS SECONDARY MARGINALIZATION. THOSE WHO ARE IN THE MARGINS OF OUR COMMUNITY. THOSE WHO ARE IN THE SHADOWS, IN THE GAPS. WE HAVE TO HAVE A FULLER, MORE COMPLEX AND NUANCED UNDERSTANDING OF WHO WE ARE AS BLACK PEOPLE. AND ORGANIZE FROM THAT VANTAGE POINT AND BYP 100, THOSE YOUNG FOLK. >> BASED IN CHICAGO. GREAT GROUP. >> THEY ARE -- EXTRAORDINARY EXAMPLES OF THAT KIND OF POLITICS. >> WE CAN, COUNT ON THEM FOR THE FUTURE AND WE COUNT ON YOU FON YOUR SCHOLARSHIP IN TERMS OF LEADING US IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, EDDIE GLAUDE JR. AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US AS WELL, THE BOOK IS DEMOCRACY IN BLACK: HOW RACE STILL ENSLAVES THE AMERICAN SOUL. AND I THINK WE GOT TO SEE AND HEAR SOME OF THAT TODAY. AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. I'M CAROL JENKINS, THE PROGRAM IS "BLACK AMERICA," WE'LL SEE YOU THE NEXT TIME. ♪ [THEME MUSIC] ♪
