I’m really excited to welcome our guest,
and so I’m going to let her introduce herself. But before I do, I just give a little lay
of the land of what we’re going to cover. Today’s case is a human capital case, and
it’s not a traditional human capital case that you would get at a firm that only focuses
on human capital. So we’ve built this around a Deloitte human
capital case. There is math that’s involved. And not all human capital cases would have
math like this one, but all of them do have metrics that are implied. So it’s helpful to think about not just
the metrics that you would need, but also what that would look like beyond it. In addition, I think it’s really powerful
when we’re talking through the case today to pay attention to how you could get this
case not just as a human capital case, but as a creative case, especially in the second
round of an interview. So I’m excited to introduce our candidate
today. She’s an experienced interviewee whose done
interviews with a couple of different firms, and has also got a good amount of practice
under her belt. So Khanh, welcome. We are excited to have you. Please share a bit of your bio and a bit of
your case experience with the group before we dive into the case. Sure. So hello everyone, my name is Khanh Tran. I am a recent MBA graduate from University
of Georgia, and my background is in retail operation and recently transferred into procurement
supporting the US government. I am one of the Black Belt cohort for the
June last this summer. And also I’ve done about 30 case so far,
and within the past month I had interviewed with McKinsey and also confidence interview
with Cognizant coming up this weekend. So I’m excited to be here today. This is my first human capital case, so we’ll
see how it goes. Well, your attitude it is one of the reasons
that you got selected to join because you’re one of those weird weirdos that we are in
great fellowship with who love to do cases. So we’re excited to have you on. And I’m excited today to push you because
I know that you do have good casing experience, and you have had success at getting some of
these amazing interviews. So we want to make sure that you’re able
to be successful. So Khanh, I’m going to time our session. I’m going to lap it as we’re going through
different parts of the case today. I’m going to, in general, because it’s
a Deloitte-style case, give you the reins to guide us the case. But I will move us along to the key pieces
that we need to get to if we need to. And finally, I’m going to try to give you
some really differentiated feedback at the end. Not just here’s what you should be doing
in this part, but here’s what it would make a difference between a pass or a fail. So I’m really excited to dive in. Are you ready? Yes, I’m ready. All right. So let me read out the background of our case
today, and then as per usual, if you’ve got questions, you know, recap it for me,
jump in and then we’ll get started. That’s great. So our client today is a large integrated
global security company called Milestone. Their firm, which is traded on the NASDAQ
and employs over 10,000 staff worldwide, produces hardware and software for use by military
agencies, law enforcement, and private security companies. Of the 10,000 staff at Milestone, 6000 are
based in the US working across 15 different offices, and the remaining 4000 are in Europe
and Asia across 20 other offices. In addition, over 2000 of the total staff
are part of a direct sales force. While the company is not traditionally known
as a tech forward firm, it recently acquired a novel 3-D simulator for law enforcement
training that allows officers to practice newly developed crisis response scenarios
on a monthly basis. Previous solutions only allowed updates on
an annual basis, and the updates had to be done manually. Interestingly, for such a tech enabled company,
the acquired firm, called Mooble conducts all of its staff training live. Milestone has an internal initiative to move
its total training process to an online platform like Coursera, but now Mooble has introduced
this odd data point in the mix. Should Milestone migrate its total training
process online, or should it focus on an increase in in-person training, and what should it
consider as it weighs the decision. Let me know if you’ve got any questions
about the background. Sure, yeah. Before I dive into the question, let me just
recap making sure I got everything. So our client name is Milestone, which is
a global security company. Has 10,000 employee providing hardware and
software services to law enforcement. So we have about 6000 employees in the US
within 15 offices, and then 4000 based in Europe and Asia within 20 offices. And also remember you’re saying about 2000
which is the direct sales associate as well. So right now we are looking to a question
of whether our client, which is Milestone, should consider implementing their current
online training for law enforcement online, or they should encouraging the in-person training,
and also what are different criteria that we should consider when implement that strategy. Did I cover a majority of information? Yes, but I do want to make one clarification
so that it’s clear. So this new company that we’ve acquired,
Mooble, their service that they provide is this training for law enforcement. But that’s only a very small part of what
they do. What’s interesting is that when they train
their employees, they trained them live rather than online. So even though there offering this virtual
training. And so we’re actually making not a decision
about law enforcement or delivery, we’re making a decision about internally how should
we train our staff at Milestone. Should we train them using a digital online
platform, or should we run group live trainings? Which one do we think would be more effective,
and which one do we think would make sense most for the business. So I just wanted to make sure that was clear. Yeah. And I also have a question about that as well. So you’re talking about Mooble. Is that the company that we acquired that
have that online training, right? That’s right, yeah. So they’ve got this online training service,
but again, we are not looking to roll that out for us. We’re just looking at this different online
training, which you’re probably familiar with, like a Coursera, or just something that
has an online platform and we’re trying to figure out whether that makes more sense,
or whether keeping trainings live makes more sense. Okay. And then, and then again probably has already
you might already mentioned that, I just want to make sure that is clear. So we’re looking into the internal implementation
of that either online for our staff or either in-person for our staff. Correct. Exactly. Great clarification there. All right. And then let’s move on into asking about
the question. So I have a few questions for you. So first of all, so with this – with this
training process, is it something that’s supposed to be done annually, or is this require
more training, for example like every quarter, every like every six months, something like
that? Yeah. We think about the role out on an annual basis. We make the plan on an annual basis, but there
are certainly different frequencies depending on the mode that we choose. For example, online training is kind of always
available, and then the live training would need to be scheduled in. And so I think we’d be looking for some
feedback for you about what you think about that. Okay. And then in addition to that, would like to
understand about like the content of the training. So is it more about just the basic policy
and procedure, or it’s going to be more of the practice and real operation that the
employees need to know as well? Yes, both. So it includes onboarding training, making
sure that we have great humans on our team that are following policies, but also probably
more importantly it’s about skills, and, you know, kind of progressive training as
people are developing new roles inside the organization, or taking on new responsibilities. All right. Both, in short. Awesome. And then moving on to my last question is
about the in-person training that we are providing right now. So in term of the person that providing those
training, do we have a good foundation in terms of like the number of those people,
or we just have like a specific kind of like just a couple of people have been doing that
for a long time. Yeah, we actually don’t have anyone internally
that does it live. It’s a fully outsourced function. We do have staff that coordinate the trainings,
but no one internally that conducts them. Awesome. All right. So those are all the questions that I have
for you. And can I just take a moment to really structure
my thought process here? Yeah, go for it. While Khanh is working, everybody else build
your own structure. This will be great practice. I think I have a rough draft of what different
area we should consider, and how I’m going to tackle this problems. Great. So there’s going to be four different areas
that I want to look into. So first of all, I would like to look into
the current capability of our client have to implement this, either in person or online. Second of all is to look into the employees,
the current employees that we have to really understanding like the spread and also the
scope of that implementation. And the next one is to look into the feedback
of what the employee really looking for in terms of this training. And then the next one is to look into different
advantages of having the online training and also the in-person training. So first of all, start with the capability. I would like to understanding the, as you
mentioned first of all, is about like those the source that we have in providing the training,
which is the outsource. What does that look like, what is that availability,
how much does it cost. Our client to really doing that. In addition to that, I would like to understanding
the timeframe that we are able to providing though. Is this going to be 24/7 and this is just
a specific day and specific time as well. And then moving on to the number of employees,
I would like to understand these following metrics. First of all is to understanding how many
new employee coming in that we have. In addition to that, what is the rate of people
successfully completing these trainings within the specific time frame that we are providing
them. In addition to that, I would like to understanding
in addition to this type of training, what is other training that also in place that
are employees that have any challenging to accomplish as well. And then moving on to the third area about
the feedback of the employee, I would like to understand is what is – what are some
of the advantage or some of the thing that employee looking for. Is this the knowledge or is this like the
real life execution within this type of training. In addition to that, I would like to understanding
is there additional resources within the online platform, or are somewhere within the company
system for the employee to really learning the new policy and procedure. And then moving back, talking about the last
area is about the convenience of this operation. I would like to first of all dive into what
is the saving going to look like in terms of having an online platform version in person,
in term of the dollar of the amount. In addition to that understanding the cap
– the capacity, the number of the people that we are able to provide within a specific
time frame as well. Yeah. And with that being said, if you don’t have
a specific reference, I would like to start looking to the current capability of that
we are able to providing to really dive into understanding the current process that how
we are providing that training at this moment. Okay. Sounds good. Yeah, go ahead and ask me whatever questions
you have. Oh yeah, definitely. So the way I structure my thought is from
the start to the end of that training. So we look into the start of that training
I would like to really understanding as you’re talking about the outsourcing, having people
from a third-party really teaching and coming in teaching and training is. So do we have any information in terms of
how many training that we done in the annual phases, and in addition to that, how much
does it cost us to implement those training. In addition to that, how many people that
we are able to provide those training to as well. Okay. Great. So tell me one at a time what you think the
most important thing is that you want. I would say the most important thing is the
number of people that getting the training and get the knowledge. So Okay. Yeah. So let me ask you a question. Do you think you could train the same number
of people using these two methods, or would you train different people with one method
versus the other method? I would say it would be different because
with the online platform, my assumption going to be is gonna be more 24/7. People are going to have more flexibility
to get that training within the timeframe that they prefer. But that their schedule. So that number going to be different. In-person training is going to be more with
the timeframe barrier, and so the cost barrier as well. So you would – you would – it would be
more expensive, or you would train more people? So with the in-person, I would say it will
be more expensive, but in terms of the number of people I would say is probably could be
the same. Is depend on how we implement it now and the
target number of people that gonna get trained. Okay. So you want to train the same number of people
in both situations. Yes. You want to train 100%, or do you want to
train something lower than 100%?When talking about a percentage, I would say under a point
of view with a manager I would ensuring that all my staff is trained hundred percent, so
yeah, we are aiming for 100%.Okay. Great. And then a second question, have you done
any online training like this, Khanh, or in-person training? I’m curious just to know which one you prefer
and what you think some of the benefits of both kinds would be. You mentioned at one of your points would
be feedback with employees, which we’ll talk about that in just a minute. But before we think about that we have to
decide what kind of feedback we’d asked them for. So what would you think about asking about
in this situation? Sure, yeah, definitely. So I can put my personal experience in here. So I’ve done a lot of online training within
the past month, and some of the feedback I’ve been providing is the plus of that, which
is the benefit of the online training is the flexibility of the timeframe, and also I can
just go with my own pace. However, on the other side talking about the
disadvantage is the engagement between the audience and also the instructor. So on the other hand, when we’re talking
about the in-person training, I can build that relationship with the instructor. And in addition to that be able to asking
more questions to understand the knowledge, rather than just rereading the information
that they’re providing. So that personal interpersonal connection
is the plus with the in-person training from what I’m seeing. And so moving to the feedback as you mentioned
early, and I mentioned earlier and you really want to understand better so I would say the
question that I would ask is what – what did the employee really learn from. From like the quality of the content and also
the knowledge that they learn which when they feel like they’re getting more knowledge,
and it’s more valuable of their time. Is it the online learning or the in-person
learning. Okay. Yeah. Love that. Good. Is there anything else that you think about
getting employee feedback on? So you said you’d asked them two questions. What did they learn, and then what – the
second one was something around the experience, right? Yeah. The valuable in terms of the time that investing
in. Yeah. So now we’re talking about the feedback,
so we’re already talking about the content of they learn the time investment of that. So another thing I would like to ask in terms
of the feedback is the convenient in terms of the easiness of navigating through that
online platform because sometimes it’s quite challenging. So that is another thing that we – the technical
problem to involve in there as well. Okay. Yeah. And then next one is -Let me ask another question. What about employees that haven’t had any
training? Would you ask them any questions as well,
or would you only ask employees that have already been trained? That’s a very good – that’s a very good
point. So I would say that having that fresh perspective
from people that have not had this training before is also very valuable. They can use their personal experience from
school to really provide a feedback to us. So I would say that we’re gonna apply the
feedback to not just employee already train, but also like the brand-new employee to really
gauging and understanding what they’re looking for as well. Now if you could only pick one, which type
of training would you want to do? So when you’re talking about only pick one,
either the online or in-person which one I should choose? That’s right. Which one would you start with. Which one would you evaluate first. What would be your hypothesis. Yeah. So my hypothesis would be so look into our
client and also the current situation that we’re in right now with COVID and virtual
learning. So I would pick the online learning as the
start for us in this case. Okay, great. Now you mentioned at the beginning a couple
of metrics that you’d want to evaluate. Tell me what numbers you’d want to evaluate
for this. Sure. Yeah. So in term of the number first of all, I would
like to see how many people would be getting trained if we end up implementing that online
platform. In addition to that, moving about understanding
the cost of the online platform. So how much does it cost us to implementing
that. And also additional maintenance fees for it
as well. And also when we learn something, we’re
making sure that the employee get that knowledge. Show the testing and the assessment at the
end is also important as well. So really want to see what is the – I would
not say the rate was like the – the percentage of people can pass the assessment within the
first trial to really understanding the difficulties or the challenging of the content that deliver
as well. Okay. Well, I’ve got some of the data. It may or may not be all that you need, but
there – I guess like two important pieces of the data are that we would be able to offer
– we’d want to offer – we would reasonably offer 80% of our staff the online training
option. There are some people that work in like for
example, you know product development that don’t really need this kind of skills training
in the same way, or you know, engineering or like some of the different departments
might not need it in some of the same way. But 80% of our staff we think would. And the cost including any maintenance fees
are $500 per year per staff member to have access to basically like an unlimited amount
of content. Okay. So you give me two data points here. So we have 80% of the staff will receive these
training, and its cost each staff would be about $500 per year to receive unlimited access
on those. So with these two data points I can really
translating into how much it’s going to cost us in an annual basis to really get these
trending out to that 80% of staff, and from that number to really understanding what that
investment mean in term of the return of the improvement within the operation, or within
the work ethic that they do. So am I on the right track here? Sounds good to me. Okay, yeah. I can just go ahead and start with the calculation. Khanh, so before we start those calculations,
like how – how are we going to quantify this benefit? You just mentioned that all of the sudden,
and so I think we should jump into that quickly because there might be something important
there that we should focus on. Okay. All right. And your question is how can I quantify the
benefit? Yeah, because what you said is okay, this
is going to give us the cost, right? But then the other part you said is you know
we need to know how this is going to benefit us internally. I’m just wondering how you’d measure that,
or how you’d quantify it. What would you do about that. Sure, yeah. So – so in terms of benefit, I would say
so when we train our staff, we want to making sure that they follow the right procedure. The first of all, I would like to understanding
of I would say the percentage of people that like violating the policy, so how – how
is that number look like. In addition to that, I would like to understanding
if they got trained they know more about the work that they do. They get in love with the work. So what is the turnover rate. What does that number look like as well. And in addition to that, would like to understanding
what is the – so we train the people so that they can stay and continue to work with
us. So what is the promotion rate with what – with
these employees as well. So – so those are going to be some of the
number that we can look into to really understand and quantify the benefit of these trainings. Okay. Great. So I’ve got that data too. Now you can just factor it all in together. Our current turnover is 20%.Okay.Per year. We would have incremental retention of 2%
of the 20%. And average annual hiring cost for a new staff
member is about $50,000.$50,000. Okay. All right. So let you – let me just recap the benefit
that he was talking about. So we have 20% turnover rate per year currently
– currently, not within that training yet. That’s right. Yeah. And then the retention is 2% out of the 20%. And the hiring cost is $50,000 a year. Or providing the training – I think what
we’re saying is providing the training gives us 2% of the 20% that don’t. Oh, I got you now. I got you. Turnover, yeah. Okay, so without that training were going
to lose all of that 20%.Correct.Turnover.Just as a normal year. Okay, just as a normal year. And then the hiring cost is $50,000, which
is on the average. If we hire people or spend more -Yeah, that’s
right. An executive is going to be more, and then
like you know, a really junior staff member is going to be less than that. Okay, awesome, awesome. So now we have a cost, but we also have the
benefit of this as well. So I would say the next step here is really
doing the calculations to quantify what is the cost actually like, what is the benefit
actually look like, and what are different scenario that we – that would come out if
we implementing that online training. Okay, great. Okay, so I can just start the cost first. Sounds good. Yeah. So I’ll start with the 80% of the staff,
so we’re looking to 10,000 people, so 80% of that is going to be 8000. And then $500 per person per year, so 500×8
is going to be 4000. And then I’ll add another thousand at the
end, so we’re looking about $4 million to provide this online training. Wow, that’s a lot. That’s great. Okay, that’s the cost. Okay, so now we’re moving onto the benefit. So first of all we look into the turnover
rate is 20%, and with that training we will be able to retain 2%. So I can first we are calculating the number
of people that will be retained, and yeah. So it’s – so let’s start with a 20%
first. So 20% of 10,000 is 2000, and then I’ll
2% of that. So 2% of 800 is two, so of 8000 is 20. So 2000 is 40. Yeah, 40 people. Okay, so will retain about 40 people. Okay. And then it’s cost us $50,000 per year for
hiring. All right. Hiring. Very interesting here. So we’re looking to an investment cost of
$4 million, and also on the other side we’ll be able to retain 40 people. So if I break it down, kind of like divide
at 4000 – 4 million to 40 people, so it’s, well, it will be about 100,000 per each. 100, yeah, yeah. It’s about 100,000 per each to really keep
and retain these people. And also the hiring cost of $50,000 as well. Okay. So what that means that we are seeing a lot
of investment here and in term of the return, we still – still seeing a very – because
what I’m looking into right now is only the base case. Because do you have any additional data in
term of if where implementing that online platform is the retention will be able to
increasing up to higher 2%?Well, I mean we are just increasing it to 2%. That’s – that’s what it does for us. That’s basically the benefit of the online
training is that fewer people leave. So what do you think about the online only
solution? I have to say is a very high investment cost,
and the retention does not look optimistic at all in addition to that we still have to
spend quite a lot for the hiring, annual hiring as well. So at this point we – I would say we are
just going to pause this option and look into the in-person option to see what does it really
look like. Let’s do it. Some of the number. Okay. All right. So I would say it’s gonna be a similar process
and we look into the online, so I would like to understand how – what is the percent
of staffing that will be covered for that training, and how much it’s going to cost
for us. And in terms of the benefit I would like to
really understand about the turnover rate and so the hiring cost as well. Great. I have to ask you, do you think there could
be any other benefit with a live training option? You’ve alluded to this a couple of times,
but we now we have to quantify it, we have to think about it a little bit differently. Yeah. So with the in-person, I would say with the
benefit first of all, I would say it’s the cost saving in term of having people coming
in rather than having the platform. So that the first one. And in addition to that really understand
if we can provide that in-person training. And right now we are still using a third-party
to sourcing these training for us. If there’s any opportunity for us really
having a real team within our company to implementing those training as well. So kind of like new job, new opportunities
for our current employees. Okay. Great. So I think – I think we’ve got enough
there that I can give you the data around it. So basically this – we would only train
30% of our workers if we go with the in-person training option. Our focus would be on sales and senior leadership. So rather than like everybody who’s coming
in, it would just be certain focused areas. It would cost us $2500 a year per staff member
to offer the trainings that we think they would need in order to make them, you know,
engaged, interested and to drive what I’ll talk about in just a second, which is an increase
in productivity. Their incremental retention is 20%. And their current turnover just of that population
is 10%. So our average sales per type of employee
is $4 million. We think that were going to get a 1% productivity
boost from this. So they’re going to be able to sell a little
bit more than they are right now. And our average annual hiring cost for this
new sales and senior staff member would be about $70,000. So what do you think about this solution instead? Okay. When once you provide these information, I
would – I would hope that I could get more of those information on the other option. Okay, let me just – I think I missed one
information. So you’re talking about the 10%. So can you help me with that? Yeah. Right now our turnover with just this group
is 10%. So when we’re talking about the incremental
retention, it’s 20% of the 10% instead of the 20% of the overall group from before. And that makes sense, right? We would have a higher turnover rate and a
more general population, rather than a more senior focused group. Okay, okay, awesome. So with this option right now, so let’s
start with the cost first. Will be able to provide 30% to sale and senior
leadership, sale person and senior leadership. So that 30% is going to be about 3000 people,
and it’s cost each staff is $25,000. So 25×3 is 75, and I’ll add, so it’s
going to be $7.5 million in terms of cost here. Okay. Right. And then look into the benefit. So we have 10% retention, 10 – 20, no, 20%
retention, 10% of the turnover rate. So that percent turnover just out of the 3000
people, right? That’s right. Yep. So 10% of that is going to be 300 people,
and then we will be able to retain 20%. So will be able to retain 60 people out of
that group. Okay. All right. And then so – and you’re also talking
about the $4 million sale, so it’s for each sale associated it will make about $4 million. Yeah. And then there productivity boost 1%, so instead
of making $4 million, they would be making 1% – 1% more of that $4 million. Yeah. About like one, 4.4 million, yeah. Okay, so -Would it be 4.4 – sorry, what
did you say? I want to make sure I heard it. I don’t think it’s 4.4. Okay, let me just do my math again. Alrighty, okay no, it’s not 4.4. It is 4.04.That makes more sense. Yeah, there we go. I didn’t know if I heard you incorrectly,
so I was just double checking. You were right. My math was wrong. Okay. So let’s look at this. So we spend more money for this online training
the number of people that getting the online training is less, however, the number of people
get retaining from this online training is more. And also in terms of the productivity is more
as we have the increase in productivity. So with that being said, moving onto making
the decision, which one I should consider. I would say – I would list out different
options, kind of like different criteria here, and weight which one is the most important
to the clients in terms of increasing sales, in term of the company culture, mission, vision. So that with that being said, so I can just
kind of start out listing different criteria that we should consider here. Khanh, before you do that, just quickly, can
you actually quantify how much that productivity boost is going to give us in total? Okay, all right, awesome. So we have each employee going to get about
$4.04 million. And so you said it in total. So we looking to a 3000 people. So if I times 3000, it’s going to be, hold
on, 4.04×3 is 12. Okay, one, two, all right. So I have about 12 billion, yeah. Yeah, so it’s going to be about 12 billion. Let’s make it easier. Easier is good. No. So I would say with that 1% productivity is
can be increased $120 million more in terms of sales, right? Yeah. And then –What do you think about that? So with that $120 million more and we spend
$7.5 million in cost to implement these training, so that cost is only about less than 10% of
that increase in profitability, or increase in revenue generating. So look like it’s a very good investment
just look into the in-person training here. Okay. So now you were moving on to some of the other
things. I just wanted to make sure we had the full
data. And I’m actually ready for you to go ahead
and just wrap it all together, so you can just tell me what you think makes sense and
why, and you’ve got options for the conclusion, right? It could be a single one of the options that
we put together, a blended approach, or some alternative that we haven’t yet discussed. So I’m looking forward to hearing what you
would recommend. Okay, awesome. So my recommendation would be go ahead with
the in-person training because we’ll be able to generating additional $120 million
in term of sale. In addition to that, able to retaining 60
more – 60 people. And those are all senior leadership people
which require a lot of experience and training. And also salespeople which help our company
increasing the revenue. However, in addition to that, this is just
like a short-term strategy. I would say that in a long-term strategy we
still want to make sure that our product development team and also engineers team also getting
that training as well. So still have to consider that online training,
but not in a 80% capacity that we aiming for. So if we were able to, so with that being
said, the next step is to look into the requirement and the need for engineering and product development
people, and asking for what is – what is the long term career goal for them really
look like so that we can provide those training so that we can also help retaining those people
and help out company in the long run.Awesome. Khanh, good job. You can relax. Well done. We covered a lot in that case, and there were
a lot of things to think about. So I’m going to go back through, give you
some specific feedback and overall kind of let you know what I was thinking as I was
going through it. So first of all, I thought that your timing
was really great for every part of the case. There were one or two places where I think
that you could have been more structured, and I’ll call those out specifically and
really more structured in this part would be more speed and more confidence. So you were full of ideas, and I felt like
there were a few times when you kind of shot at one of the ideas, but then a more comprehensive
solution faster would have actually been a quicker overall solution. And it would have allowed us to have – there
is one final part of the case that we actually didn’t totally get to because of the - the
timing for that. When you were talking about the opening, I
felt like in the recap you did a really good job of, you know, explaining what you were
looking at. My only – this is a very small nuance, but
you just – when you recapped you said law enforcement only, and I would have loved for
you to have said law enforcement and other areas. You know, especially the military. I don’t know if you are working with the
military or with other elements of the US government now, but like I want you to kind
of expand that and make sure that you weren’t getting too narrowly focused because I got
a little bit worried that that was one of the issues. I felt like your questions were really good. You were, you know, really quickly asking
about what your assumption was. About like I would imagine that they’re
doing maybe this, or this type, or it’s for this purpose. And I felt like you were able to build a good
structure. You asked three questions, and it only took
you two minutes and 20 seconds. So between your recap and that part, you know,
you really used your time well at the beginning of the case. I think you could even be a little stronger. And you’re looking for differential approaches,
so even at the beginning what you said was I have a couple of questions. But tell me I have a couple of questions that
are going to help me focus my structure and solve the case more clearly. Like tell me why you’re about to asked me
the questions from the beginning, and then as you are asking the questions, say I think
if I understand the business model I’m going to be able to really hone in on an answer. Like kind of reinforce that as you are asking
the questions. Then as you went into the structure, you took
a minute and 50 seconds to prepare it. It was really textbook in terms of what you
did, and then when you came out the only thing that was a little unclear, this happened really
consistently, and it’s kind of a funky piece of feedback. I’ve never given this to anybody before. But it was like at the end of every list you
kind of waffled more. So when you had your three categories, your
first two were like super solid, and then your last one was like I actually wrote it
down at the beginning as two different categories. I didn’t know whether you had three or four. And then when you went back into the actual
structuring, the last bullet in every section it was almost like you were like here’s
the kitchen sink for every single thing. Like you were trying to not miss anything,
but I think what happened is that I lost some of that confidence and clarity from you that
you could have gotten if you had just bulleted out some of the other things that you talked
about. So, for example, in the current capabilities
category, you – what I wrote down was that your first bullet point was source, where
we source these from right now. But then what you said, you kind of explained
it first, and then you got to the data. Flip it, right? What’s the cost of our current training. How many people – what percentage of people
does it currently cover. All of that data is exactly what we covered
in the case. So if you had gotten me to the data faster
by building it into your structure, it would have gotten us where we needed to go later
inside the case. And then you talked about the specific date
and time. You kind of got into this other like more
random things that were quantifiable. So, you know, in terms of structuring, I think
you still could be an A, where you’re at a B+ right now. And I would really push you to just get that
more quantitative data-driven approach right up front and to really focus your time on
that. I thought you did a better job with the current
employees. What percentage of them are adding every year. What percentage of them are the rates of completion. But then again, your third one was like what
are the challenges to accomplish it. And I know a human capital case feels like
it could just be like a big hug or something else, but still, like try to stay focused
on, right, you know, like what percentage of employees will gain performance, right? Some of the other things that we were thinking
about rather than like what kind of challenges. I think you covered that in the cost. So just being a little bit more, I would say
like single tract in each category, and then a little bit more data-driven would have made
that an even better. The final thing is that one thing about a
human capital case, if you know it’s a human capital case, like sometimes you could just
get this at McKinsey, or you could get this case, you know, at BCG, and if you don’t
know if it’s a human capital case. In fact, this case is built off of an internal
project that Deloitte did for themselves, which is kind of cool. So I’ll tell you about that a little bit
more right at the very end. But human capital cases need to be people
first. So my final thought, I wrote that down on
my paper, and my final thought would be that in your feedback portion, the third bucket,
I would have presented that one first, right? What percentage of our staff like each kind
of training. What percentage of them engage and gain performance
from each type of training. And that’s actually exactly the process
that Deloitte did. They figured out first what their people wanted,
and then they developed what the solution would be. And so it came across as very, you know, that
people always talk about consultants being like to spreadsheety. It came across like that. Rather than, you know, the purpose of this
is to enhance the people experience inside our organization. So here’s how I would measure that. Then when you were talking about some of the
first brainstorming, when I kind of asked you back that first question, I don’t know
how many of the cases that you’ve done are more McKinsey style, that where like somebody’s
bossing you around, but it seemed like you were a little lost there. And I want you to go into a McKinsey-style
brainstorm rather than just a high-level brainstorm. And so it felt like because you felt like
you were in control you needed to move on a little too quickly, and we actually ended
up spending seven minutes there when we could have spent probably two if you had just gone
a little deeper first. So this is when I asked you hey, you know,
what do you think are the benefits of the different kinds of training. And you were like online training, it’s
flexible. Off-line, you build a relationship and get
more questions answered. I would have rather had a let’s think about
the benefits of the online training. It’s probably more affordable, it’s more
flexible for completion, you can cover a wider range of topics, right? I would have wanted you to like really list
those things out, number them on your paper, tell me at the end how many there were, and
then go more deeply into the second category. And again, that kind of glance that you did
at the beginning it meant that I had to go back and ask for more, and then it turned
into what felt like a very – was a very unstructured conversation. So if you’ve ever gotten the feedback that
you could be more structured, and especially when you’re leading, you need to go deeper
into your ideas so that you cover a little bit more and in a little bit more of a listicle
format. Then in your math, your math is so good. I mean I really had no question about whether
you could do the math. I felt like your – I was expecting the math
to be kind of perfect, but what I would love to take your math to the next level is to
tell me at the beginning what the insights are going to be. So the fact that you didn’t tell me up front
what the costs, sorry, what the benefits were going to be, meant that we were just going
to calculate how much it was going to cost us. And so when you finally got that, I jumped
on it a little bit because I wanted you to think about the fact that okay, if we’re
going to cost this out, like we need to get something back from it. You know, every once in a while, like very,
very rarely we do something because it’s mandated, but it’s usually like only if
it’s government-mandated, right? Not because we just like think it’s generally
a good idea. Usually there is some kind return that has
to happen inside the business. And so I wanted that even maybe earlier in
your general structure would’ve been great to have it, but at least here I wanted you
to highlight that. Because that would tell me, you know, what
I think we’re going to find is that the online is less expensive to – it was less
expensive to implement, but more – but the in-person is going to be more beneficial. And I – my guess is that the online because
it’s less expensive, the differential is going to be bigger, but it’s possible that
it could go the other way. So like tell me up front, right, this is what
I’m looking for when I’m weighing them out. It just gives me context for why I’m doing
the math itself. And then finally, I think you could have been
really strong, I mean live in-person training came out with the clear monetary advantage. And even if the people came back and were
like we really want online training, you would be like oh, it’s because you’re lazy. No. Need you to become more productive so we’re
gonna run you through this under training. That $120 million is actually like a massive
number, we need to go after that. So I just felt like you’re kind of like
oh yeah, it’s like 120 mil, like you know, it’s monopoly money. Like no big deal. And I wanted a little bit more of a reaction
from you when you got that kind of like monster number as in context of everything else. And just kind of a fun – a fun recap for
this. So Deloitte started with the same hypothesis
that you did, right? Let’s go for online training. They were like we think we can cover people
more, everybody’s a modern and have cool. They are all millennials, they’re going
to love the online training. And so they started with feedback. So when I asked you, you know, what kind of
feedback would you ask people for, I was – I was really thinking about that part process. And what they came back with was people wanted
to spend more time, they felt more valued with the more time, they felt more valued
with the more in person. It connected with them with more than just
skills, but with a greater purpose of the firm, with other people, as well there were
all like all these other benefits that people rated, and it was overwhelming. It was like over 85% of the people internally
were like we don’t want online training. We want it to be live. And so then they went into this cost expenditure,
and basically they figured out that between retention and productivity, they could make,
you know, if they only had like a higher utilization or higher productivity, they could make these
massive gains. And that’s actually what led Deloitte to
build Deloitte University. And so they built not just Deloitte curriculum,
but Deloitte the campus. And so I love the fact that you talked about
internalizing the training maybe to bring the cost down, to make sure that it was expanded
but still thinking about that live option and Deloitte has done that I think really,
really effectively. So this case was, was based off of something
that was taught and written about by Barry Salzberg, who was the CEO of Deloitte at the
time, and he’s a mentor of mine and was a professor of mine at Columbia Business School. So anyhow, I hope that you found it to be
not – not maybe as pure human capital as you were worried about, but still very business
decision applicable, and also interesting. Do you have any questions for me, Khanh? I don’t think I have a specific question,
but just want to say thank you for giving me this case. Honestly, I was a little tumbling at first
because I was when planning I really don’t know what how should I structure this case. But when we dive a little bit deeper, I feel
like I find the path to really find my way out – out of this. So this is a very great case, something different,
but also a great business case to really learn and weigh the benefit of cost as well. Love that. The benefit in the cost framework is it feels
very basic, but it can be super useful when you’re floundering, just really trying to
articulate that, and trying to explain how you would measure what the benefit is here
I think was one of the keys to the case once we got there. And that’s really helpful.
