Degree a Camshaft Without a Wheel (and advance it a ton while you're there) : Mopar 5.9L Magnum #8

[Music] hello again welcome back to the garage today we're going to do something real simple we're going to get the timing chain and gear so basically the timing set on this motor once we get that on we're going to check the timing real quickly to make sure the timing set is at least somewhat accurate let's get started because it's a four-stroke engine the crankshaft goes around two times for every one time the camshaft goes around so you end up with two different gears for that a small one for the crank a large one for the camshaft now the way these work as you can see it's got this little dot on here we have on this one it has a dot when they are pointing directly at one another so kind of like this that means that the engine should be at top dead center on the exhaust stroke on number one so basically we bring the piston up to top dead center and then put the timing set on so that this one is facing up this one is facing down just like that and that'll make sure that the cam shaft is timed properly with the crankshaft so first i'm going to bring this piston to the top or close to top dead center i'll do that by just putting the harmonic balancer on it and turning the crank i then take my timing chain this one's a double roller so it's got two sets of teeth here factory would have been single just hang that on there rotate it so the timing mark is down and put this on so the timing mark is up so they're facing one another now and then put that guy on there slide it in i have to rotate the camshaft around to get the keyway to match so now you can see this one's pointed straight down this one's pointed straight up and they're facing one another if you're off by a tooth on the chain this will be off to one side once you have the timing set installed with the timing marks facing each other and the motor at top dead center on number one so i'll just take my harmonic balancer and insert it doesn't need to be fully installed just make sure it's on the keyway i'm going to bolt this wire into the block i'm bolting it over on this side in this hole simply because it puts the wire really close to the timing mark on the motor and tighten that down all right so now i'll make sure that the motor is at top dead center so we'll go back a little bit and then come forward looks like it's right about there now i'm going to take this wire and put it right on where the timing mark is i'm not touching the harmonic balancer see a little close to it but just above where the timing mark is i just want to be able to make sure that i know where it's at i'm going to do this a couple more times to make sure it's in the same spot so i'm going to back it up and then come forward just looking at the piston so top dead center so i have this right where i want it to be now we're going to take a look at the overlap for this camshaft so the way a camshaft works in pretty much any internal combustion engine is there's an overlap there's a time when the piston is at top dead center that both valves are open the exhaust is just on its way closing as the exhaust is getting pushed out and the intake is just opening as this is about to go in pull in a charge generally speaking those valves cross one another they are open the same amount right at about top dead center that is the split of the overlap so what we're going to do is we know that this is a top dead center we know that the two lifters should be at the same height because the lobes are open at the same amount so what we're going to do is we're going to drop two lifters in here and now we're going to check to see the height of both of them really we just need to know that they're the same height we don't care exactly what the lift is so we're going to use a straight edge and go across them and we're going to check all four points of contact it should touch all four at the same time with a straight edge that would tell us that they're at the same height these ones let me adjust are surprisingly not even close on this you can see that this one which is an intake isn't even close to that guy that looks like it's probably 20 or 30 thousandths off if the intake is not yet open as much as the exhaust then the then we consider that being timing if it's higher up than the exhaust it would be advanced timing we want to find out how far this is right now so now what i'm going to do is i'm going to rotate the crankshaft using this until i have contact on all four of those points so both lifters across and right there they appear to be just about perfect you always want your final movement on this to be in the direction of rotation to make sure you've taken lash out of the timing set so right now both of these lifters are at the same height you can see the difference here from top dead center to where this timing mark is that is how far this is if it were up this direction it would be advanced so now how do we know how far that is we could take the you know distance around the harmonic balancer we know that's 360 degrees and divide it and figure out what that is but there's an easier way to do it all right so if i have a timing cover here so from here to here is 5 degrees so we can measure this distance and then measure this distance and figure out how far that is so if i measure this distance and then i do the same scale here you can see that that is oh man that looks like that's about probably 10 or 11 degrees that doesn't even seem right to me that's that's an insanely large amount of offset if it had been one or two i would have thought okay yeah that's within what i would consider a normal range that seems just insanely large especially so there could be a few reasons for this one is if this camshaft or the crankshaft one of these two gears if the keyway that's cut in them is cut at a little bit of a wrong spot like you know 10 degrees off that would give us this type of behavior so that's an option another is that the camshaft itself just is that way from the factory remember this is a factory camshaft and i don't have exact specifications for it couldn't find them so what i'm going to do is i'm going to take this one off i still have the old factory one and i'll put it on and see what it looks like these lifters are still same height so the camshaft didn't move and you can see the timing is still off by 10 degrees so it wasn't the timing set it is in fact this factory camshaft looks to be about 10 degrees maybe even 11 degrees i've got to do some research find out if that's right it's making me question even what i i believe i know about how these things should work but first i just i need to do some investigation figure it out so we'll be back in a couple of days all right so we're back looking at this timing set so i was not insane so i went and looked at the factory service manual for a 2000 dodge pickup with the 5.9 the specifications for the cam in the book are not very good it gives us some information like when they open and close but it doesn't give us any lift i also think it's completely wrong i think they have the intake numbers reversed because if you look at how they have the intake numbers which i'll put up on the screen here it looks as if it's opening at the bottom and closing at the top which means it would be pushing uh big air out as it's coming up at any rate i i think the book just has it inverted but i took these numbers and i sent them around to several cam manufacturers and i actually got a response back from a guy named kyle or keel i can't i don't know how to pronounce his last uh his name k-i-e-l but at any rate he's at kellford cams out of new zealand really really helpful uh again i'll put the i'll put a link to their site down in the comments here just because of how helpful he was he did the quick calculation for me as well and came up with basically the same numbers i did he's got a lobe separation of 109 and a half degrees in the intake center line at 117.5 in the exhaust center line at 101.5 the only guess we can come up with on why it is so far is that the chrysler engineers were trying to do something to achieve emissions right power and performance tend to take a back seat to emissions and efficiency i am not as concerned about that we also don't have a computer driving things we don't have fuel injection so on this i want to bring that timing back to as close to center as i can now the interesting thing is 10 degrees is a crapload of timing that we have to adjust for it's really a difficult thing to take 10 back out so what i've decided to do or what i've found that i can do at the most cost efficient is i have this timing set from summit here's the part number for you guys uh i'm not sure which one of those is the part number 78103 maybe at any rate this is from summit racing you can see that this timing set has a whole bunch of keyways in here and it allows us to either advance or the timing we can go all the way up to eight degrees advanced or eight degrees again we're trying to achieve 10 so this isn't even enough so what i also did was i bought a key so we can we'll take a look here in a minute but the camshaft has a wood roof key on it or it's the thing that goes into this slot here this uh key is offset see if i can open it up and give you a little bit better view this key has an offset in it so if we put it in like this we actually get 4 degrees so it's a 4 degree offset they actually make two and four i think they may make six as well something like that but so we'll insert this on the camshaft and then we'll put on this timing set set for advanced six degrees and then we'll do the measurement again and see where we end up so this is the wood roof key here on the camshaft it's just half moon so i'm going to take a drift punch here and put it just on the edge you can see the difference there's the factory and here is the offset that we're going to put in we want to put it in this way to advance it this way would the timing so we're going to go in this way to advance the timing so one of the challenges here is the depth of these two keys is not the same so i actually have to take this guy and remove some meet from the back side come on focus up i have to remove some material from back here so that it will seat far enough down in the notch on this camshaft i have to do that without getting my fingers in the grinder [Applause] so it turns out that shaping this key to fit in there is quite challenging takes a lot of trips to the grinder what you're trying to do is you can see that land from the offset it effectively needs to be resting right on the camshaft when you have it right so if i go like this that's going to go in and it's resting right on there so you have to make it shorter in both directions in order to get it to fit we're going to advance this guy six degrees we have that in now at theoretically six degrees here and four degrees here so we'll put our balancer back on we haven't moved the crankshaft so it should still be at top dead center but we can verify that looks like top get our lifters in and so now let's zoom in on that you can see the straight edge goes across and touches all four points like it's supposed to so now the overlap we have it right at top dead center both the valves are open the same exact amount at top dead center on the exhaust stroke and our timing mark is right at zero so we had to get six degrees on the crankshaft four degrees on the camshaft but now i can bolt this in because the timing set is in one final note here notice this chain is nice and snug there isn't much side to side play here at all the original one that i pulled off of this motor had three to maybe even four times that much deflection it was really stretched so that helps keep the timing correct if it's really loose that lash or that slack in it will cause the timing to really adjust as you accelerate and decelerate that's it thanks for watching

Channel: Yoshimoshi

Views: 4,638

Rating: 4.7777777 out of 5

Keywords: mopar, 5.9 magnum, mopar 360, camshaft, cam timing, degree a camshaft, 5.9 camshaft, 360 timing, camshaft timing, advanced timing

Id: JerGIQ1YGMg

Length: 18min 32sec (1112 seconds)

Published: Fri Dec 18 2020