Defending Violent Criminals | The Briefs (Criminal Law Documentary) | Real Stories

almost two million people are brought before England's Criminal Courts every year you have been arrested quite a few times before from what the officer tells me haven't you 29 convictions 64 offences more than half of them are legally aided at a cost to the taxpayer of 1 billion pounds the best thing you can do is if you live and not say anything simple as Britain's busiest legal aid practices Tucker's they handle thousands of these cases every year then put the knife I put all my wafer we've been following them for two years with unprecedented access to their lawyers and their clients I'm not gonna plead guilty to nothing right I don't care as the cost of criminal justice comes under increasing scrutiny this is how justice really works [Music] [Applause] [Music] the police race after a car they suspect has been stolen in thinking about Java all the others even on the Cape incremented they chased the BMW along the narrow roads to the north of Manchester I should be back on the main road overtaking 77 0 miles an hour Clyde goes away we've seen earlier would end up come on Moffat is abandoned there now the drivers gone but the police suspect they know who he is [Music] Sam Greenwood and his friend Dexter Webster live in the countryside outside Manchester where it's hard to get around without wheels Sam is 19 he's charged with stealing the BMW and driving whilst disqualified he's during court and has a meeting with his lawyer a Somali to go through the evidence with Dexter in tow there's a BMW which was stolen off a drive from the 19th of September now when that vehicle was taken no one's seen are they feeling taken so just give it a missing overnight then the next time was seen is towards the end of October on the 29th of October now there are two witnesses who indicate that they've seen you drive in that car what you basically said is the making it out yeah there is a crime at the scene investigator or a Saco officer who's provided a statement they basically say that your prints are linked to to our items and obviously that's why you will have difficulties yeah no I don't think you've been able to or you haven't so far give me an explanation as to how that could have happened we're gonna have to see how the evidence girls but I don't necessarily want to call you to give evidence that's not the point we have discussed before it's not the first time a soms dealt with Sam in the last three months he's defended him three times in court and got him acquitted three times yeah have had a run of luck now we're gonna have to see whether that that luck holds or not because today these witnesses turned up then the courts gonna think why would a witness turned up to call to lie did I hate you that much sue happened yeah well for the best [Music] oh good morning it's Claire from Tucker solicitors the main thing it stopped listening to what the police say Takas is the busiest legal aid practice in britain robbery possession meaning ten yeah 70% of their business comes from returning clients anybody who appears before you at the police station or a call for a blade to ask or warn them they've probably looking at going to prison Franklin Sinclair runs the Manchester office we are a vital check on the power of the state and that does involve us taking on unpopular causes representing all kinds of people from hardened criminals to mentally ill people people who can't understand the system people who need expert legal advice and help otherwise they wouldn't be able to have their say they wouldn't be able to get a fair trial Atticus client is on trial accused of being a conman defrauding and blackmailing an elderly doctor out of his life savings with an elaborate web of lies felt a dot on hunter gray and assistant Roz weeks are representing him here we are we're well into the trial how do you think is going now do I think he's going I think I think it went all right when you questioned the doctor yeah think he proved the doctor give me the money willingly but it was inconsistent with what he said and never told him that he had cancer never I've known people who have died of cancer if I did said that to anybody that's completely disrespect to people they were living with cancer on a daily basis and a yearly basis I would never do that to anybody because that's disgusting I've heard people in the paper who've done that I'd never say that I've cancer to anybody I told him I had migraine headaches and that's what really angers me he still said that he only gave you the money because he believed that you were extremely ill that's rubbish but that's his evidence he knew very well that what a wide the money for he knew very well that it was what to have cosmetic surgery even though it failed the prosecution's say this man is a fraud who's lied about everything including his identity so who is he the complainant is saying that you told in there that you're born in Italy that you were raised in Italy that your family's Italian and you're going to have two sisters who are called the goose if that is not true they're simply saying that if you've told the court that you are in fact Gianfranco giovanni Berardi born in scissor to italy then you're not deport violence Rockdale assertive not sorry is that the judges said it relevant because it will help the jury to decide if you're telling the truth about your background are we disputing what they say what do you suggest well I need to know what your instructions are it's not for me to suggest anything either what they say is right or it's not right and if you're telling me it's not right then I challenge their evidence what you suggest there's the further complication of what he's told the police the defendant said the poor marston was the name on his birth certificate did oh yeah that's what you said in your interview he said that he changed his name by default in 1996 to sell Travis because he knew someone called Scott and saw the name Travis on the back of a florist's that's just really what you said what do you think of it you were one of them keys give him in the eyes I don't mean that but he just keeps looking at me well you know the jury they want to see who it is they're trying and inevitably they're going to look at the person in the dark I'm not putting on the spot now but you've got to make it you've got to make a decision I'm not gonna plead guilty to anything I'm not I've come so far why should I plead guilty to it and all those evidence against me but I'm gonna tell you something now I'm not gonna plead guilty to nothing right I don't care [Music] put a lot of trust in Rosa and Hunter after watching him question people in the case and he's made them rattle under understand and I just said massive that's the sign of a good lawyer I just think you've got a BM gotta be honest with him which I am doing my client a troubled individual very entertaining but he's got a lot of personal problems I think unfortunately having personal problems there's no defense to criminal activity in Greater Manchester there are 88 reports of violent crime every day he's saying that there was a mob attack on Emily the witnesses Benjamin he doesn't know what to of in the Spade what are the weapons viola news today advocate Ian Johnston and his assistant Neil Hampson are meeting a client charged with a serious offense involving a life liam that man's about to go on trial for grievous bodily harm a charge that carries a maximum sentence of life imprisonment [Music] Liam's come in with his dad to go through the defence statement the case centers on what happened at the party Liam was attending when a group of uninvited lads showed up there was fighting Liam said he picked up a kitchen knife in self-defense he says one of the gate crashes attacked him with a garden Spade come on it was you and before you know it you're treading water backwards and he's hate you left a sign he's got the Spade back again to go for you again and it's at that point that you've used the knife aimed anything no you just generally get away from me with that same self thank you and you accept at that point you've caught him in the neck I was getting dizzy I was on the floor top art I'm gonna go out and steal them Durham was somebody stamping on your head at that point yet just feel on the balls you know I remember feeling I can tell with metal think about the cup on your head yeah I'm pretty sure that was from the Spade it's from something oh yeah something metal yeah I think it's very importantly when you do the science that you do put across how you were feeling at the time you know you've got this guy here at the door with a group of mates and one of them's wielding the Spade and don't think it's important for you to get across you know it surgery exactly how you were feeling and how I'd be feeling the defense lawyers want to know whether Liam's victim the Maine prosecution witness has a criminal record they've asked the prosecution to tell them she may have previous four assaults which we'll be looking for and the other thing that we'll be looking for is whether he's got any previous convictions for dishonesty if he has then we'll make it bad character application and say there's not an honest witness in a case like this it's invariably gonna come down to me calling him a liar with the trial just days away the legal team is still short of defense witnesses the key issue I can't stress it enough is that we need these witnesses reach one-on-one who knows which way the jury's gonna go if you if there's two of you against him the new chances increase at the end of the day if they have any doubts about who's right who's wrong they've got to find you not guilty and going them but the stakes are pretty high if you are convicted obviously you are looking at a fairly lengthy sentence for this whole thing never overly confident about trial Sydney sorry hard to predict nothing he would say that any case is a typical case they're all fairly unique how many times do you you'd be seizure house being attacked by a group of people with with with spades and sticks but no missile and I'll just try not to think white though until this I have five religious I need to change [Music] Sam Greenwood is charged with stealing a car and driving whilst disqualified his case depends on whether to prosecution witnesses turn up to court a soms got bad news one of them is on her way she encourages others to connect in the evidence that's been causing problems honestly I'll say to you don't even know [Music] the prosecution witness tells the court she saw Sam driving the stolen car Sam tells the court it wasn't him the magistrate's retire to consider their verdict he lies for a buck see what she does I like when all the girl what's he gonna have to eat all see you'll get nothing out like this you said nambian grass that's all serious the magistrates don't agree they believe her there's a break while they consider the sentence the friends got guilty when really I don't think he should have it's quite scary hopefully what God inside gonna be a bit difficult sometimes but there we are bad result today win some you lose some it's keep getting bummed that does music if I didn't get bummed I'll be driving and then I've been doing what I want to do instead after Nick gasps to drive he's stupid what I don't really get the ozaki's to air a kid but it's all done not so that's it this is the last time yet said I only get sent down that's it I'm doing it myself it's no problem so it's no one else's for Sam Greenwood was subsequently sentenced to 16 weeks in prison he was disqualified from driving for two years the district judge described Sam's record as appalling and said he needed to be kept off the road to protect society Scott Travis alias Paul Marsland alias count John Franco Giovanni váradi is nearing the end of his fraud trial his girlfriend Gayle Hayworth was facing charges for perverting the course of justice these have been dropped things are going less well for him I'm concerned I don't feel is that a third trail I've seen two jurors snickering laughing whispering to each other with points of the set taught by Sir I only hope that he's got it in hand the prosecution says he's a con man from Rochdale but in his kitchen at least he's pure Italian I was taught by um my father Frank over RT to make spaghetti bolognese with onions and shredded carrot she's my father was Italian it gave me a passion for Italian food to eat on him to cook so that's why why I love Italian food but I eat it nearly every night other than that sufficient you I'm 44 now I've been with Gail for 17 years and before that I was married I've got four children attuma daughters living Tenjin in China and another two daughters live in Singapore with the mother she's a medical doctor he spent the day giving evidence it's left him feeling a bit bruised this morning the line of questioning it was about my birth and about who my father is and I've made this big story up and I never made no story up at all it's the truth and if the prosecution don't believe it I'm not really bothered but obviously that's gonna get me into trouble isn't it they're not gonna believe me and I'm gonna be in trouble and the jury won't believe because I've been made to look a complete storytelling idiot I'll go to my grave denying my guilt in us because I know it wasn't guilty I that this man can't mention his name this man was in love with me he want me to be with him I didn't want to be with him I am NOT I'm a sexual one not count no few people have said am i right count for what disappointed me was my barrister just sat down and I looked at him and he just looked at the table he looked away from me it could have stopped like you know give me a bit of confidence by looking at me and turn away and say you know you know I'm here for you I'm your barrister and I will catch speak to you but I'm still here for you and he could have stood up for me you really could have stopped them in smiling I was never gonna bust open tears but I didn't do as I'm too strong for that I stopped myself from get down too strong for that you see I know that I'm gonna be convicted and I know what I'm gonna go to prison I know it it's gonna be a vote six years I misspoke out very much it's a very close to it I'll miss my cat and I'll obviously miss game [Music] it takes just 15 minutes for the court to reject Scott's claims he's found guilty on all counts I believe because he lied about his identity that a site to sway the jury completely as if to say would be lies about that a lies about something else our job is to advise people give them advice as to up please they should enter he was given that advice ito to ignore it Scott Travis alias Paul Marsland alias count John Franco Giovanni váradi was sentenced to eight years in jail [Music] Sam Greenwood is in prison now his friend Dexter Webster is in trouble he asks for Tucker's to represent him at the police station the lawyer on call is shab Aslam and usually a camera is allowed in to film the client interview yeah I've been arrested quite a few times before from what the officer tells me haven't you 29 convictions 64 offenses yeah so been a busy laughing yet you're not very old now I all do now 19 18 yes you got a busy few juvenile years haven't you Dexter is accused of breaking into a caravan parked on someone's drive yeah they want my ID but that's what God said I just got more importantly because you are not the victims are saying that see pot was stolen from there yeah at a park but you've not taken that okay no that wasn't your intention to go in and steal just to go in and shelter is it raining or anything that day or what we just got kicked out of a party yeah okay you know it was about our fight right okay I'm more than happy for you to answer questions tell them exactly what you've told me that you've not gone in there to steal anything that is merely a bit of a giggle with your friends taking some shelter and just having a bit of a chill out inside the caravan there police are gonna have reservations about bailing you they reckon you're like a one-man crime wave at this moment inside Dexter pleads guilty to the caravan offense I really don't want to be their God I really don't want to change my life now so off I won't be back here Dexter avoids prison but is ordered to do 20 hours unpaid work and pay a hundred and sixty pounds fine his outstanding fines now total eight hundred and ninety pounds you can only afford to pay five pounds a week and at that rate it's gonna take him over three years to pay off his financial commitments so effectively the leaves in down dire straits sometimes it does bother you see the same face over and over again I hope us in the last of Dexter [Music] five days before he goes on trial for knife crime liam mcmahon meets his lawyer at the scene of the attack this the garage area near once liam to walk him through what happened when the gatecrashers arrived at the party just show me you you pick up a knife don't you your kitchen you tell me where that where about the knife once it was here so there was a block of knives okay so that is the black of night that's a new block imagism yeah what is it you do with that man well cash out it'll clear the girl screaming and so far I'll go out I look look what's up with it yeah I hope you put the knife I put all my weight on was he still armed with the Spade yeah well of him did I know what one of them to pull the fence panel one of them actually removes the whole panel yeah which is still missing yeah I had one of him shell yeah out these in the garden and the same one every one to speed I wonder about the fence panel so officially then we should pull a knife out as I come out I see when a large folder speed up a car to the top of the roof the group of him of course at me so yeah [ __ ] it off all the way down so I'm just [ __ ] off and just fending them off right I know it's got all the way back thought the end of the road so it was quite a distance as well that I've got softer the victim from the case describes incident actually taking place on the drive yeah which is like well we're nowhere near to the driver are we now we were good ten twenty yards away five are they all running at you yeah there was a couple bandy but he was just hidden with despair he had displayed yes right past all that yeah so I'd be uncle Dale this well he swung at me it's hit me a right and then that's what it's swung at me again and I just struck out and that had caused an injury did ya see is that you did you ring the ambulance for the Liam and what injuries did he have we've now been able to get the witnesses here today so I'll be able to obtain full statements from those witnesses with the witnesses now on board Neal's feeling confident about the case he calls the prosecution there is reference to a spade and a dog chained been recovered from the garden where this incident took place I'm just wondering if there's any photos of those items at all there is only one witness for the prosecution that is the complainant himself the police have made attempts to speak to the group that he was with that seven males and not one of them has come forward make of that what you may and but obviously that's one point that we'll we'll be relying upon a fact that none of his friends have been cooperative all right thanks for your help Jess bye bye Dexter Webster is back in Barre police station this time he's under arrest for van 50 or thwack taking a vehicle without the owner's consent now it's Katie colder banks turn to help him out have you been involved in the initial bath of this vehicle you need to be honest as well you need to tell me the truth because if you tell me any lies again I know that I did not love that you must have had some sort of contact with this man Dexter tells Katie he and a mate were in the van in a park two other men were hanging around their drawers offices so he fought over that and then he said I'll move that and so I went right past it it's where I've got so I've got the screwdriver and I've come to try and start it started up tried moving it off the park and then both for the males dragged me out the van started but no I know I get that but effectively you're guilty of 12 and aren't you because on me you wouldn't start a car with a screwdriver so you must have up some songs you know some thought that it was a stolen vehicle you must have had some belief because that's all you need for for you know for the offense why do you rob it no I know you know there's no suggestion that your initial taker and there to be fair to you there isn't any evidence that you little taker right but obviously on that instructions you are guilty of taking that vehicle would that be all right I know you're not going to say that that's why I wanted to get to your instructions and ask you what whether you knew it was dishonest or not because obviously you've you've made certain comments to me about that offense now the best thing you can do is rip your lip and not say anything simple as so it's to be a no comment interview but even someone is familiar with police interviews as dexter needs practice so once that cautions been explained to you that is more or less your cue than to start replying no comments they might start off with something very easy who do you live with who do you live with on no you don't know comment yeah yeah no no no no two weeks later the police tell Dexter Webster they will take no further action against him [Music] Tucker's and more than eight million pounds in legal aid fees last year but the government wants to limit legal aid so the future for law firms like Tucker's is uncertain good afternoon everyone welcome to the monthly management meeting right the the monitoring of the reporting of figures on the last occasion we had a very smiley face unfortunately today we've got very sad face because we would build 200,000 pounds less in December than we did in November so it's a pretty disastrous month December in fact I think it's probably Peter I'm not quite the worst month of the year April April was the word was December it was Christmas courts are closed people are off work you know really December is a three-week month really I suppose though I think that does explain so not many advocates bills really low crowns crowns low but yeah low although they did have a very good month in November they've couple of big cases in there Max and PlayStation Magazine police station really low yeah I think some of that can be explained because of December yeah it's generally the 22nd Peter so we've got some idea how how's all this month progressing mmm we're running on a knife-edge financially we've got a reasonable-sized office we've got a lot of infrastructure the costs are higher and higher and higher and legal aid is it's just extremely it's extremely challenging environment December there was 223 recorded hearings overall in all the magistrates courts that we cover hundred and forty six of which were in Manchester weighed out and by 268 in Manchester in 2010 there's a 22 here and drop on that one yeah everybody is feeling the pinch in different ways depending on the structure and their costs and the size too many people chasing too little work in essence to lower fee it means law firms need to bring in even more clients and keep the ones they already have there's a familiar face at Barry police station Scott Travis who is serving an eight-year prison sentence for fraud has been brought in to face fresh allegations it seems the one-time John Franco Giovanni váradi has been passing himself off as a wealthy Muslim businessman Mohammed Kashif ray the police say he defrauded a woman he met on an online dating site of 12,000 pounds you are suspect as being the founder range places probably this obviously will look like the advice that give you a new the person that's responsible phenomenal phone cash if he looked in don't customer firebombs I don't always address in Bunker's all know if I worked with her to exam I'm hung over and these two brothers and one sister he said that his girlfriend of two years was actually affected affecting in my presence to the apartment which I was to handle hand over to him at one point a package be that big yeah I'm the agent closed my envelope in the white [Music] Scot blames a friend called Kashif the police blame Scott they say he persuaded the woman to open a bank account for him she got him the police say Scott's girlfriend Gail Hayworth was part of the fraud they say she collected the money from the victim Katie doesn't know what Gail has been telling the police [Music] please with this account I think the certain doubts that you're gonna put in the cops mag and they've got this have got something to sleep yeah being quite like this with you know spring onion and garlic still hit you know what's recorded [Music] Scott is unwilling to accept that his girlfriend of 17 years might be helping the police to no-till up to my mind and what I think girl before get to me do not mean right I think yeah I just feel no comment best view today you in a lot of situations with this towel on your own and it's not good we don't save them see what they've got have a look at you once the caution that's panicking now give you a wink and that's your cue to stop say no comment if you do speak I'm asking is like that when you thought too short we'll be fine [Music] Scott Travis accused of taking 12,000 pounds of a woman by posing as a Muslim businessman is once again being interviewed by the police they produce a mobile phone which they say Scott used to contact the victim scott responds by doing the very thing his lawyer told him not to do he talks he says he shared that phone with a friend called cash he then asks for a break to speak to his lawyer I'm not denying that it's me but the thing about it is that Blackberry I we we both used it the two BlackBerry's each one was his girlfriend she Mina's and the other one she weighs right on once used to listen to their abuser the last time you confirm that phones yours you said you didn't get it back you didn't get that phone until November well you've got to shoot yourself in the foot because the last time your interview you know they've obviously got evidence that you've called the place on that nominee which is why I said to you limping dog say anything because now you're backtracking on what's been said I'm not cut the thing about it I'm not gonna deny that I had that form all the way through the year but you used it as well we're both used to yeah well that's not what you told them last time and I told you not to speak because last occasion I've got all your in speak it was my fault in November he actually give it you know we stopped the interview so many times and we're having the same conversation but I just explained to you in October are you give me the meat you know talk but he came back with this blackberry mobile bye and he said to me you can use it if you want to use it I'm getting a different number you don't mean you no never never no other girl now what do you think about the situation with Gail she's gone against me aren't you told you this very likely that she would have done I warned you that before the interview that although you might think somebody wouldn't do it you know they'll do anything to get themselves out of trouble I've been winner for 18 years I don't want to say see Scott I can't believe her why she said what she said I'm I'm not I had access telephone I'm not dead I'm not I had it before November I did have a early one do you of course do Scott honestly you want the honest opinion about John I told you I think the evidence is strong against you and every I'm being honest I can lie to you if you want and dress it up and say oh it's really straightforward you'll get a not guilty but I'm telling you now you need to prepare yourself for the worst because the evidence they've got is that you've used the intermittently this fall and unfortunately it's got some pictures of it just watch read on that or other don't need to press it in don't want the cops running in thinking you're in fact you are going to gain nothing by speaking to them because of what you said you've used the card you've been involved in it you've been you've been doing things for cash then they find a picture of you that bares name cash on the phone and there are pictures of the victim are seen on the account of the Facebook account for instance that are on the actual form as well I can't see how anyone could explain that if you wasn't catch right well you obviously think I um do I know it's not about what I think I told always think I'm not going to tell you what I thinks it's not about what I told me no I'm here to give know because there's a problem owed but I'm not going to tell you anything about my personal views of this case because what I think is irrelevant I'm here to purely give you advice on the evidence and the evidence is strong Scott Travis subsequently sacked Tucker's and used another law firm he was charged with fraud and pleaded guilty his girlfriend Gayle was also charged but she chose to go on trial it's the first day of Liam man's trial for grievous bodily harmed Liam and his dad are feeling the strain what if in case it gets a phone killer for I'm up through his office trial because at least he can get his story across he's at the end of the day because you're the guy I was having to go away to add to the stress there's a shortage of courtrooms the trial is shifted down the road to Manchester's other chronic or at Mitchell Street and legal arguments delay the start of the trial to the following morning natively Matt Lance child the main prosecution witness takes the stand under cross-examination the witness said he couldn't recall whether or not he'd had a spade after he's given evidence the defense team is optimistic it's got wealth because they're what the guy was lying anyway and it's just paper which I'll admit it's a happiness made said he don't recall where fearless fate when obviously clearly this is so if you can't recall though you should be sure we're not stick so imagine it if you like what he's been stabbed he should that should be remembered action it I'm quite pleased because I could say that they're some of the faces on majora and when some of the evidence was coming out and he's answers to it you could say the business didn't believe it I've mentioned in passing that I might make as a mission of no case to answer on the basis that the evidence is manifestly unreliable I think about that overnight but certainly it's not the strongest of cases but to be honest those are the ones I worry about the most Chris McMahon has taken time off work to help with his son's case all right Neil's been on the fonesome he's been trying to get all the years oh I love me some dollar and obviously needs to be there that same when he needs support so you know I have to I just feel it's just awful 95 overdue I wasn't really happy about Liam picking up a knife and going out but thankfully I've been the day you didn't have it then he could have been a lot worse trouble we've got a lot better about three or four years ago and that might have had something to do mean his mum's playing on trailer and we've lost looking back on it but they mainly in as a whole he's not troublesome what so day three of Liam's trial Ian asked the judge to consider dropping the case because the main prosecution witness was so weak the judge agrees he describes the prosecution witnesses vague totally contradictory and unreliable the judge orders are not guilty verdict to be entered the judges feel like I've ever did this but wait we tell they was lying insult yeah happy with that I never here jobs are getting should have stayed in the house board at the time and how you think and when you panic just has been safe for once so maybe it's great isn't it I mean this this is what we do the job for this is what it's all about and to be honest with you we were quite confident that that would be the case there were a lot of flaws in the case as was heard in court today with the police losing vital evidence they'd lost the Spade which was pivotal to the whole case we didn't know until we turned up the court on modern day who was actually prosecuting the case how do we have the opportunity to speak to the lawyer who was dealing with it then the potential was there for not wasting everybody's time with this fiasco because that's what it was [Music] that matched a Crown Court Gail Hayworth girlfriend of Scott Travis is to go on trial for fraud she's using another law firm but the trial doesn't happen Gail changes her plea to guilty she accepts that she collected money from Scott Travis's victim I feel that the jury may not believe me and I was advised it would be better to plead guilty I want to keep Scott Travis out of my life this is a man who was living in a world of his own not based not a reality based world Gale still lives in the flat she shared with Scott Travis eight months on there's not a gondola in sight I've taken down the pictures that he wanted that were his Luba their picture bitterly there I did a few cowboy cells last year yeah she denies that she profited from their fraud wife done with a minute I don't know I know he spent some money on clothes I've never been on holiday with him in all the 20 years and I've never picked up wads of cash I picked up two envelopes and I have no idea how much money was in those envelopes because I never opened them when you're in prison it's a very lonely place and you've got to have some hope so it just invites you know that he loves me and all that but those words it's not you you know you know but your deeds it's not what you say it's what you do so it's gonna be in prison for a long time isn't you Scott Travis gets a further 18 months imprisonment for the new fraud offense the judge labels him a born liar Gail Hayworth is sent to prison for eight months [Music] you

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Id: Q15bAd8s08I

Length: 46min 23sec (2783 seconds)

Published: Sun Sep 30 2018