Death, Depravity, Deity of Christ and more: Romans 8:5-10

we are in Romans chapter 8 Romans chapter 8 and today we're going to deal with how to deal with sin even habitual sin and how we need to have renewed minds specifically in the in the area of how we how we think about sin and the struggle against sin and that's not really exactly what the passage is all about but it relates to that so we're gonna talk about sin salvation the issues of position in Christ versus condition in Christ and there's an important verse about the deity of Christ in this passage as well in Romans 8 so just a few verses here but there's a lot in it remember this is the Sunday night service this is called thinking biblically for the reason that we are wanting to think biblically to actually have my thoughts be biblical it's a little bit broader than just saying theology it's like I just want to think biblically about about all things and here we are in Romans Romans 8 is like this this magnanimous moment this big event in Romans 8 where we're pulling together ideas throughout the book of Romans but also throughout all of the Bible and seeing how Jesus changes all this stuff for us Romans 8 is all about solving a whole lot of problems and so we should find it really edifying and helpful for us as we go through it so here we are Romans 8 verse 5 it says for those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh but those who live according to the spirit the things of the Spirit now that word flesh it really is as Paul writes about it in in Romans and other places he's talking about that sin nature he's not just talking about physical body we're not as Christians we don't believe that just physical bodies are themselves evil if that was the case then Jesus was evil I mean he had a physical body but the flesh is talking about that sin nature in fact there are some translations that actually will translate when he uses the word flesh they'll translate it's in nature there are certain ones who try to make that clear and that can be very helpful or you can just read it in context and you can piece together what itwhat is talking about so that's the mind on the flesh then there's the spirit those who set their minds or live according to the spirit that spirit is talking not only about the whole spirit but when you live according to the spirit it's about that new nature because Jesus said even to his disciple the holy spirits with you but he will be in the future he will be in you and it was after his death and resurrection that it began to be indwelt by the Holy Spirit in a different fashion so this is the setting the mind on the things of the Spirit this is this is the life we're talking about versus the flesh so we have the before saved and the after saved the condition the position before I mean in Christ in then after I'm in Christ this stuff's important you will not understand Romans 8 without these concepts in your mind the flesh is sand nature sinful desires and in spirit is spiritual desires desires that are from god's holy spirit so do they live according to the flesh that's a really interesting in the greek i'm not going to try to quote a bunch of greek to you tonight because i find that's not too helpful and guys that quote too much greek i feel like they're just trying to show off any one guy who is like I'm going to teach at least one new Greek word every Bible study when I teach and I was just like why like why like I live in California it'd be more efficient if you just taught me a Spanish word every time then I hit that be more useful to me than the Greek but but I will go through one today so for those who live according to the flesh is this talking about position or condition do I live as in I exist my life is according to the flesh meaning I'm unsaved or does it mean I act according to the flesh meaning I live with sinful actions in my life one is the position I'm in Christ or I'm in the flesh yeah there's a condition what is my life like I I live like a Christian or I live like an unsaved person understand difference in position and conditions actually really important here because the debate we have the Christianity has really with everybody else is do I go from position to condition or do I go from condition to position let me explain let me explain it's really easy if I have to earn my salvation then I have to go from a conditioned behavior of goodness to a position of salvation you see I went from condition to position that's a works based righteousness but if I'm going to go from position to condition if I'm going to get saved and then as a result of the change that God brings in my life then I'll live out good works naturally now I went from position to condition am I saved by grace or am i safe through works do I perform it on my own or is it a gift of God that's that's the ultimate question and Romans is making it very clear here and you'll see as we go through these verses that it's from position we go into our condition I live out I'm saved and then I live it out that's the point so this word actually translated live according to the flesh is really just just live according to is just one word at on tests and it's a Greek word that just means exist it's a word used for existence I those who that's why some would translate those who simply are according to the flesh so the word there's not life as in the way you live your life it's it's a it's a position word you exist according to the flesh so that's that's how you could think of this for those who exist according to the flesh their very nature is just fleshly they're just carnal they're unsaved they will as a result set their minds on the things of the flesh they'll set their minds on the things of the flesh though they'll live an unsaved life and because they're unsafe they'll be in bondage to sin there'll be justice they're still stuck in Romans six before being married to the new husband Christ and what I want to do tonight is I want to bring in some other scriptures so let me take this idea of position condition and let's think about that as we go to Ephesians chapter two so turn to Ephesians two we're going to look at verses one through three and get this idea that those who exist according to the flesh they have the unsaved state of life they're children of a wrath according to the scripture and here it is in Ephesians two kind of a parallel passage Paul's bringing all these thoughts together in Romans eight and you he made alive who were dead in trespasses and sins dead in trespasses and sins in which you once walked according to the course of this world according to the Prince of the power of the air the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind and we're by nature children of Wrath just as the others so our nature was children of Wrath so we lived it out we lived out in carnality and in sinfulness so it was just natural Paul has been describing this throughout the book of Romans right in Chapter 1 he's like yeah everybody sinned look at look at how bad they are in Chapter two he's like hey you two you religious people you too and then he gets into a chapter three he's like yep that's the whole world everybody all l have sinned and fallen short of God's glory and then he keeps going in Chapter six he talks about how man is enslaved to sin and then in Chapter seven he talked about how even the believer is going to struggle with sin but in Chapter eight he's talking about the deliverance the solution to all these problems if you literally read through Romans and just thought every time I see a problem every time I see it talking about a problem with mankind I'll underline it when you hit one through seven chapters 1 through 7 you'll have a lot of underlining but when you go chapters 8 through 16 all of a sudden you're not underlining very much because this is the pivot point rights Jesus is Jesus I thank my God through Jesus Christ you know because he's delivering me from these things he's saving us so so let's read verse 5 again Romans 8:5 says for those who live or who exist who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh that's the natural thing that they do because of who they are but those who live according to the spirit the things of the Spirit ah but now let's flip let's flip the coin over if there's those who are stuck in sin because of their sinful nature then there are those who are in a sense stuck in righteousness because of their new nature they simply naturally play it out they naturally live out a new way of living this is the answer to Romans 1 through 7 here is in Rome your mind your thoughts are unable to follow God in his will when you're unsaved then you're saved now the Holy Spirit's in you it's a real change a real transformation and so you may now have a new entity impressing upon you good vibes so to speak I mean I use the word vibes are good thoughts good ideas good good desires even that are coming from God's Holy Spirit that's the connection that's the interplay the mind before unable to follow God because of the flesh but the mind after being born again has a new influence the Holy Spirit so those who are set on the flesh on sin that's unsafe but the Christian is described as being what set on the things of the Spirit I am on the things of the Spirit this is supposed to be the normal Christian life I say supposed to it supposed to be normal that I am just going to serve God I'm focused upon God that love is a true important thing to me because of the work of the Spirit in my life that God's Word is something I just naturally love you just find that you just of course I'm drawn to God's Word man because I have the spirit in me of course I want to live these things out in my life I think this is this is interesting it's as natural as sin as to the sinner it should be so natural for Christians to walk and righteousness I think that we live in a time and culture where at least I could say this in an hour Malou in are like Southern California life we have taken righteousness and we have given it a back seat we've not made it a great priority because we were afraid people would think we met you had to do this to get saved but we should elevate righteousness shouldn't we shouldn't we say no God is one some people who were zealous for good works like it says in Titus he wants us to be like have zeal for good works not for before salvation but because of salvation so we should be excited about these things but I should say this this this natural zeal for good works this natural love for God and even love for other people ability to forgive these types of things this has come in my life I've seen it I've looked at my life and I yet there was a real change this matter to me I looked back years after getting saved and said wow my life really did change my attitude really did change my desires for righteousness really have changed but I have to admit it's not without wrinkles and it was not all instantaneous and perfect in fact there's some things it seems most believers will say I came to Christ and there's certain like standard temptations that just poof gone just gone I'm no issue at all but then there's other ones they could be like but this is not gone this is not a struggle that I no longer have to face I'm dealing with this still so it's not without wrinkles none at all without wrinkles we have the Holy Spirit in us but we also have the flesh still with us and so there's a battle there so Ephesians turn to Ephesians again we'll be going to Ephesians a couple times in Philippians and Galatians Genesis so Ephesians 4:22 this is super important with this in mind right before salvation mind is set on the flesh after salvation the mind can be set upon the spirit and that's a natural thing but we're still required to like yield to this thing and so if Fijians 4:22 it says that you put off concerning your former conduct the old man which grows corrupt according to the to the deceitful lusts who's the old man well that's that that child of Wrath that was set upon the flesh sinful desires that was me that was the old person and be renewed in the spirit of your mind and think about this this is writing to Christians that Christians even though they have the Holy Spirit they still need their minds to be renewed even though they have the Holy Spirit they have to put off the old man and put on the new so be renewed in the spirit of your mind and that you put on the new man which was created according to God in true righteousness and holiness so there's still a battle you're not going to be you're not walking around like I'm sinlessly perfect I float on clouds of grace and fly with halos of righteousness and you know there's healing under my wings like no that's that's not you we're not describing you here for me no it's I have wickedness and righteousness right here right here at the same time before I didn't have the righteousness part and now I have both but I can choose to yield now this I think should effect Christian psychologists when they're sitting there and they're getting counsel or giving counsel to someone they're hearing their story they're hearing them talk about their marriage and the battle that's going on their struggle at work their issues with this or that that this should affect them they should be thinking am i hearing things that are coming from the old man or the new man is that desire you're battling from the old man or the new man and then encourage and counsel people to walk in the new man to put off the old and I think that should impact us and affect us because we want to think biblically about all things art do you do this is my challenge to you you do this do you feel the desires for whatever come up within you and ask yourself is this the old or the new is this of the spirit or of the flesh that should just be a normal Christian thing that we do on a regular basis if we're going to think biblically about our own desires so should be our focus like walking in the spirit not in the flesh now I want to say though as a younger believer I focused on walking not in the flesh I focused on putting off the old man but I didn't really pay a whole lot of attention to putting on the new man not that I didn't read it I just didn't pay attention maybe you've done that and I focused on it do not do the works of the flesh right you know fornication lasciviousness because I was the version I was reading I was like let's divvy I had to look it up oh it means wantonness thank you that really helped yeah but I focused on putting off the things of the flesh but that's that's only half the thing that's only half the issue it's only half the problem I need to focus on walking in the spirit this is just daily practical Christian stuff to walk in love joy peace patience gentleness kindness goodness faithfulness self-control like think about this it's like getting a song stuck in your head this happens to me a lot for some reason I always have scooby Doo in my head like all the time Scooby dooby doo and I and I get it in my brain and I'm kind of like bothered like why song in my head like what happened to me as a child that focuses song to play but you can't get rid of a song in your head by thinking about the song I have to put on Scooby Doo I have to put off scooby-doo that's only half the equation what I need to do is put on a better song so I put on the song that never ends because it goes on and on my friends okay now that would be worse instead of better but what you do is you take another song put it in your head and all of a sudden the other one's gone in our fight against sin we must not focus just on the thing we're getting rid of we need to focus on what we're replacing it with and this really will make a practical difference in our battle with temptation it goes like this I'm standing at the bank I'm thinking I could rob this place some people do that I could around this place I'm driving home I'm thinking I wish I had that car I wish I could afford that car that's a nice car I get home I pull into my driveway and I'm like man we should have a better house will be better house and I realized that materialism is pulling up within me so put off that materialism of the flesh and what am I going to put on instead you know what I'm going to give something away I'm just going to give something away Lord you find something and give it to somebody else I'm going to stop and I'm just going to be thankful for what God I'm just going to make a list in my prayer closet right now God thank you thank you that I even have a home there are people that don't have half of what I've got I'm so grateful for what I've got thank you thank you that I have a car that works even a little bit thank you for the fact that my arms and legs are working and you start putting on gratitude so you can't just be like oh stop your materialism you've got to actually move into the other realm so to speak that's really important walking in the spirit in fact Galatians puts it this way it says walk in the spirit and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh way back in and out how will I not fulfill the lusts of the flesh by walking in the spirit just put a different song in there so to speak Philippians gives it to us to think about this passage of Philippians in context of everything I just said Philippians 4:8 finally brethren whatever things are true whatever things are noble whatever things are just whatever things are pure whatever things are lovely whatever things are of good report good news if there's any virtue if there's anything praiseworthy meditate on these things it's about what we do occupy our hearts and minds with and I think if more of us took Philippians 4:8 seriously we wouldn't be complaining about stress nearly as much so as we read on Romans 8:6 it says here for to be carnally minded is death but to be spiritually minded is life and peace life and peace so carnal or fleshly it's the same thing you word carne right we're talking like steak here we're talking about flesh or what's carnal so carnally minded would be the mind that is thinking about the desires of the flesh that's what's occupying my mind as is the desires of the flesh it's death it is death notice that it doesn't say it brings death let's be careful in our Bible study the to be carnally minded is death not it results in death not later on you die no that's death that's interesting isn't it now it's true that the carnal mind the mind set on the flesh will end up getting death and getting the second death but it also is death now it's an ongoing experience of death and this I think relates to Genesis as you try to pull together a whole bunch of different biblical concepts here in Romans 8 God said to Adam and Eve the day you eat of it well he says to add in particular the day you eat of it you will die well do they die right away well yeah they died right away and they died later death is more than just dying just like life is more than just living we get a sense of this when we talk about now this is the life what we don't mean is I'm breathing and my metabolism is functioning like this is not what we mean when we say this is the life well we mean is that this is like what life is supposed minutes there's something about what life like can be the potential of what life is and all this is this is it but there are those who are walking around who are living out death even right now and it's the carnally minded those who are focused upon the flesh they're living a death as they go through their lives that's why it says in Ephesians 4:18 about the unsaved having their understanding darkened being alienated from the life of God alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them because of the blindness of their heart so they physically dead no but they're alienated from the life of God the life of God Jesus comes he says I'm the way the truth and the life this is what life is supposed to be this is the potential of life and it just in it starts now and it increases and grows on for eternity so life is not mere existence and death is not merely not existing or not breathing anymore so those who are under the sway of the flesh they are it's death Karla minute is death that's death but the flip side of that thing is given but to be spiritually minded is life in peace it's life in peace it's life in your heart in your mind have you been there have you had it where your your your life around you things are falling apart you know the job is down the health is bad you've heard bad news but you're but there's something about the glory and goodness of Christ where you can say I'm good though I'm good because I have life I've got the Lord have you had that like that's what to be spiritually minded is its life and it's also peace and peace I think is very underrated it's a very underrated thing peace people want action and excitement but I'll take peace any day over excitement there's two sides of this there's peace with God the scripture talks about this Romans 5:1 it said this couple chapters back it says therefore having been justified by faith we have peace with God through Jesus Christ our Lord so I've peace with God like we're not at war before I'm not under God's wrath there's no more wrath for me thank you God but there's also what the Bible calls the peace of God not the peace with God the peace of God Philippians 4:7 it says and a peace of God which surpasses all understanding will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus the peace of God that's different that's talking about like an inner experience of peace this is connected to the idea of life in peace and I think that's the focus that is talking about being spiritually minded it's its peace now you know it not being in peace is like but it seems to me that we got to let the Bible be the Bible here and tell us that perhaps maybe even a large number of us are not walking in the peace and life that is being talked about in this passage and here this is not meant to be conduct condemnation this is good news there's a lot more peace maybe in Christ than you have yet accessed then maybe you are accessing at this moment to just rest in him to just trust him with whatever is coming - just know that you all your job is is to abide in Christ and you'll bear much fruit as you can just you can just give it to him and trust him I have had issues in my life where you're stressed out I'm bothered I want to throw in the towel for whatever reasons and I just stop pull over the car and just pray for like two minutes and all of a sudden I just have peace that's that's the peace of God that's what that is and that's something that we want to have but you've got to be spiritually minded and as a Christian even if you if you move towards the carnal mind you're going to experience this lack of peace and it might be a red flag that goes up that says maybe my mind is not focused upon the Lord maybe I'm not focused on the spirit and maybe I'm leaning towards the flesh because some people move away although new believers they tend to know about this piece of god stuff right there right away they know it but you know we start to like bring other things in I mean look at the letters in Revelation the seven letters to the seven churches they moved away a lot of them they really started drifting it started adding things in their lives that God didn't want it start ignoring things that were really important so it's possible that I can move away too and the the advice is this I think how every letter in Revelation into the same way he tells them what to do about it and he never he's like a doctor that always has a solution comes in tells you yep Oh yet your eyeballs out on the ground there but that's okay I got to take two of these pills and you'll be fine I mean there's always a solution of some kind when it comes to the Lord in our lives you like look oh yeah this is all falling apart but yet there is hope there is a direction to move in and so if you tonight if you're thinking okay lord I know I'm lacking peace then do something about what do I do you need to have a spiritual mind put your mind upon the spirit and how do I keep it there well as the carnal things come into your mind or heart put them off and put on the new man and you'll be renewed in your mind that's good good stuff I need this I want this and we had and we can have this in Christ I think Romans 8 is going to as we continue through it it's going to show us that the Christian life is possibly better than you have yet realized or maybe as good as you once knew and maybe perhaps had forgotten and so um let's read on Romans 8:7 it says because the carnal mind that the mind set upon the desires of the flesh the carnal mind is enmity against God for it is not subject to the law of God nor indeed can be so then those who are in the flesh cannot please God the carnal mind is the unsaved mind it is it is enmity enmity again there's a good vocabulary word for your enmity it just means hatred its hatred against God it's a it's God I despise you but wait a minute there are plenty of people out there who don't purposely despise God at all in fact some people who think that their lives are fine with God I'm cool with God and gods cool with me we have an agreement I came up with it in my imagination so I'm cool with him and he's cool with me I made a deal with the big guy in the sky you know you lose be alone and I leave him alone here I kind of think I'm actually quoting somebody today but I would think but um but yes so how can my sin like I say I'm an unbeliever and I'm sitting in on this study and you're and I'm like okay Mike finally the Holy Spirit and all this all the stuff okay fine how is it though that my sin like I sleep with I sleep with my girlfriend like how am i hating God I had nothing to do with God okay I take his name in vain okay I could keep that personal okay but like I lied to this guy well that guy's a jerk he deserves it how is this against God the issue is this sin is against God every sin is against God because God is holy he's the foundation of morality itself he's the very definition of goodness and so when I do what is evil I'm hating him when I choose what's wrong over what's right it's a personal offense against God it's against his very self and I think that any minimizing of sin is a really bad thing in counseling there's there's three things we look for and we try to try to call people out on in the loving way what is minimizing when is denying and one is blaming three particular issues right minimizing minimizing is when I take the sin or the issue I've done like and I make it smaller well yeah I cheated but it was just you know it didn't really matter right you know or you know I turned I try to shrink it down I stole that I stole from the big corporation and they got way too much money anyways right I try to minimize the issue denying is the second one denying is where I just go and didn't really do that I lie about a lie about a lie about a lie about and there are there are many who do who do this as well of course right and many of us are guilty of doing this at different times as well deny and we can deny to ourselves - everything's fine everything's fine everything's fine you're thinking like but it's not really and it's just a denial I'll just lie about it and the final one is blaming is blaming now this is what we see in the Garden of Eden right after the eating of the fruit we see the blame thrower comes out right and Adam he manages to blame everybody when he says to God well god this woman that you who gave me was I complained both of them in one sentence right it's God and the woman's fault right this woman that you gave me she gave me night and he looks at even he's like well this serpent this evening and the serpent new battery Tizen's lawyer didn't say anything she blame is when I basically don't want to take accountability for my side of the issue for what I've done maybe I was only 10 percent guilty out of the 90 percent that belonged to somebody else but I was just ten but I was ten you know that was I was my issue this is where I went wrong I should be held accountable for this I should deal with it in marriage there's a big deal right to be able to come up and say yeah I was wrong at least in this part but you don't want to because you feel like the other person was wrong in that other thing well good luck with that you know good luck with that there's so many times where things go wrong because all it takes is one person to say I'll just apologize for at least what I did wrong you're not lying about it you're not pretending to be wrong when you're not just deal with your side of the issue that's a good marriage advice but it also works with God guys like just deal with it sin is hatred against God and you got to deal with it it's a it's a mindset of animosity to God and so it's death now and it's ultimately death later and that's why the mindset the person who's in the flesh it says really strong words verse seven and eight they can not be subject to the law of God they can't follow God mortal truth they can't live a truly good life there is no truly good person truly truly good fully good that person does not exist and it says that they cannot cannot please God it's an inability to live a holy life an inability to be pleasing to God because every sin is a personal offence against him so here's my question I've Calvinist friends and they would point to this and be like Mike you know that's total depravity I mean can not be subject to the law of God cannot please God and I would say yes it is depravity but is it total depravity let me explain here's where I would say this passage so far in Romans 8 we don't have total depravity and here's why total depravity ultimately says you can't even say yes to the gospel it doesn't say you can't ever do anything good it but it specifically says you can't say yes to the gospel meaning that this person who I can't please God I can't live a holy life but total depravity doesn't say you can't live a holy life it says if someone came preaching the gospel to you you could not say yes and this is why within the doctrines of Calvinism the belief if Calvinism is and there are brothers and sisters so I say this just to be clear about where we disagree but there's no there should be no division between us and Calvinists but on the area of disagreement they believe that regeneration and and and belief happened in reverse order from what most of us here in this room would believe so we believe that you put your faith in Christ I believe the gospel I say yes to the gospel I receive Christ then I'm regenerated on born again I get that positional change and now I live it out they would say no no you've got the cart before the horse because you're totally depraved you can't even say yes to the gospel so what happens is the Holy Spirit comes in and just regenerates you you get saved you get born again and then you can't help but believe because you have a new the new spirit so you see how that this is where originally I got lost on Calvinism I was like okay I was listening to you I kind of urge you but you lost me when you said regeneration came before before belief I just don't see that biblically personally but so I would say this passage if you wanted to use it for a total depravity that one of the doctrines of Calvinism it's only saying a person can't live a holy life can't live a life pleasing to God it's not going beyond that to say they can't even say yes to the Gospel message if a guy a guy can't can't avoid falling in a hole it doesn't mean you can't say yes when someone offers them to pull them out it's a two different issues so now this is not only a declaration from Paul it's a conclusion from a bunch of stuff he's gone through but it's also a conclusion about himself Paul's like me and my flesh I can't please God and he knows it and this is where I think people get it when they think well I think there's good people out there somewhere they're truly good people yes but are you one well no not me because we know we're not we know we're not and anybody you know sufficiently you know is not good and God ultimately knows us completely it's only by God's Spirit that I can serve God only by this spirit now if it's only by the spirit I can serve God isn't also true that by the spirit I can serve God that when Jesus pulls me out of this pit he enables me to actually live a holy life before Christ I'm not talking about sinless perfection is I'm just talking about living out the righteousness that God has enabled me to walk in I can actually not sin in whatever given area and some of us will fight some of us all of us will fight with habitual sin and temptations where you feel like you're in bondage but I'm telling you the Scriptures in Romans are telling you you are free you are free and you got to think biblically about this by realizing you really don't have to yield to that temptation you really don't you are free you are free and there's been times where you felt super tempted and usually didn't yield so you know it you know that you're not you're not in you're not enslaved to this thing anymore you just need to put off the old man and put on the new walk in the spirit and you will walk in freedom of these things remember this though when you're witnessing to people remember this is where sharing the gospel this is why we don't expect people to get cleaned up in their lives before they come to Christ this is why we'd invite anybody to come to our fellowship no matter how just smelly you are or because I mean some of us are still me too but you no matter what's wrong with your life sin sin wise we don't care because we just want you to hear the gospel be able to receive Christ and then we expect the change to come naturally as God's Spirit works within you I have a friend who he came forward to get saved at a I'm gonna say revival but what they would call the crusade right uh an event where they were sharing the gospel and he comes forward to get saved he was in his late teens I think it was and he walks up there and he's like I want to hit stage he's like I want to believe in Jesus and the guy the counselor who was going to pray with him looked at him and said all right I'm gonna pray with you but first you got to take out your earrings and he was like wait he goes take out your earrings man and he was like forget this and he turned around and left now I mean if you had to take out your earrings to get saved it would be insane to say no right I mean like it's just I'm just saying it's insane to say no but we all know there's something seriously wrong with the idea first off that God even cares about your earrings second off that we expect people to fix things in their lives before they say yes to Jesus no where does no man you're going to naturally go off I mean like you're not going to walk in and be like you know what now that I'm saying I'm just getting rid of the nobody cares about the hearing right because it's not a sin issue this was the counselor issue thought it was but you know Church runs on volunteers so sometimes that happens but but yeah we don't expect people to get saved first and so I would I would not think you know what my friend doesn't want the gospel but I can just try to help them clean up their lives if I can just get their lives cleaned up you're like it's never going to happen and they're really going to get cleaned up before God you may get it better than it was and that's good but it's not all simply going to work so we treat the save and the unsaved differently now this is made evident in first Corinthians chapter 5 so we read this - this is interesting passage it kind of relates what we're talking about for he says Paul says for what have I to do with judging those also who are outside he's what he's saying is what authority do I want to claim as a church leader as an apostle I'm not going to claim any authority over the over the world over those who are outside do you not judge those who are inside and he flips it over right like but aren't you going to deal with church discipline and deal with people in the congregation that are doing wrong things you should deal with this stuff then he says but those who are outside God judges therefore put away from yourself the evil person so if there was someone who is in great Grievous sin and they're unrepentant they won't repent after multiple times of the church graciously coming and call repentance that there to actually be kicked out of the church kicked out of while we're inviting unbelievers to come with all their sin issues yet there are times where believers are asked to leave because you see you claim to follow Christ and we have to judge the church so we're going to say you have to leave and we want them to return one of them to come back as soon as we're able to so Church Authority is a real thing Church authority is a real thing in church discipline is required by Scripture and expected by God but based on the passages that talk about church discipline we don't see it expanding beyond the church think about this I don't expect the church to be judging the world I don't expect the church to walk up to people in the world and be like you know you need to change this or else you name it you name it that the church government is a spiritual government it's not meant to be a political government it's not meant to say we're Christians and we'll extend our rule over other people Paul's response to the idea of this of like some sort of Christian version of Sharia law Paul's response to that would be what do I have to do with judging those who are outside what have I got to do with this this is just about believers you say I'm a Christian I'm part of the church all right as part of the church there is an authority structure there is such a thing as church discipline so let's let's keep going romans 8 verse 9 it says but you you are not in the flesh but in the spirit if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ he is not his you were not in the flesh but in the spirit this end the next two verses verses 10 11 are going to assure us that Paul is talking about positional truths not conditional truth or a result of your salvation not how you get saved if you're in the spirit then you're not in the flesh if you're in the flesh it's like a positional thing so you're not in the flesh but in the spirit if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you so if God's Spirit dwells in me this is saying that believers Christians we're literally vessels of the Holy Spirit we're literally living out God's God Almighty created the heavens in the area living with us in us and you think you can overcome sin and you think you're embodied to this thing you need to you need to start with your position and realize that it affects your condition and it can over you can overpower and overcome these things just die to it walk in the spirit this is this is amazing now now think about this if disobedience to God is a personal offense to him if sin is personally offensive to him what do you think righteousness is like I think that when Christians choose to walk in righteousness and do what's right instead what's wrong it's like saying I love you to God it's like walking out love to God jesus said if you love me obey my commands that obedience to his commands is an act of love to him that when I choose the right thing instead of the wrong thing and I choose to walk in the spirit I'm actually doing a personal thing of obedience and love to God I think that's really neat now in verse 9 there there is actually a really really important super crucial theological point that you may have missed and most people do in verse 9 it's about Jesus and it's about who he is now let me read it to you again and I'll emphasize certain words if it comes out to you but if you but you are not in the flesh but in the spirit if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ he is not his weight is the Spirit of God the Spirit of Christ these two are interchangeable they're used synonymously that if I'm in Christ I have his spirit the Spirit of Christ but what about the Spirit of God yes that's the Spirit of God it's the same spirit so that's an important theological point you know you I like these verses that kind of sometimes it's taught in a broader fashion sometimes it's just one little spot and it's nice to have those little verses so Romans 8:9 about the deity of Christ but there is a there's a if here if if if you see how it comes up over and over again if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ he is not his so but what do I do if I say I'm a Christian and I'm not living it out like it's not so black and white as verse nine and I claim to know Christ and I claim to be a Christian but I'm just totally not living it out I don't mean that I struggle with temptation like every believer does I mean I'm not living it out I'm not living like a believer I'm living like an unbeliever what does that mean to me I think biblically this puts a big question mark over your salvation but Mike I'm saved by grace true but grace does something and God's Spirit in you does something so you live according to the finger which you you live according to you both so if you're living by God's Spirit you're going to live it out personally I don't try to resolve this issue I don't try to decide if someone's saved or not based on their lives but if they move into this gray area I treat them as though their salvation is in question I can't have confidence that they're saved and I think this is how we should do it I think this house Scripture does it I think it puts people in this little gray area where they go I don't know them save because I don't see any fruit okay well maybe you're not so what should you do about it I should work harder no that's not how you get saved you should get on your knees before God and you should ask for true salvation in Christ right now I mean live it out that's the only solution there can be it's the only solution but there's a balance here I can't look at someone who's not like following Jesus very well and just assume they're not saved either because I don't know and there is such a thing as carnal believers or believers who are living sinful lives to at least some extent let me read to you first Corinthians chapter 3 talks about this it says in verses 1 through 4 and I brethren could not speak to you as spiritual people but as to carnal as to babe's in Christ he has to talk to them like they're dealing struggling with sins and they're weak in the flesh he has to talk to them like they're babes in Christ now that's interesting that means that to Paul a babe a babe in Christ a baby Christian is going to be struggling with some leftover sin issues of the flesh it's not like an immediate transformation of every aspect of the life it's a transformation of the inner self that slowly results in a transfer the outer cell so that's interesting there's a case there for the idea that oh there's a baby Christian is a given time because you know the Holy Spirit starts working on them and the things start changing he says I fed you with milk and not with solid food for until now you were not able to receive it and even now you are still not able for you are still carnal he said this to Christians you're still carnal you're still like baby Christians for where there are Envy strife and divisions among you are you not carnal and behaving like mere men as and not with the Holy Spirit for when one says I'm appalled and another I'm of Apollo's are you not carnal so let me ask you in Paul's opinion was there such a thing as a carnal Christian I think so I mean it's in the Texas right there so I would not look at a carnal Christian and say you're clearly unsaved because they profess Christ and they claim Christ and maybe they have a testimony of salvation I'm just not sure you know why because jesus also told a parable about there being tares amongst the wheat fakers amongst the true and so I just don't know it just puts this question mark over someone's head I don't know if they're really saved to me that's terrifying and so I will I will counsel them to turn their hearts and lives to Christ I will encourage them to walk in the fullness of salvation and the truth is that people in the past who lived this way and then and then came out of it walked in the fullness of Christ they themselves look back and they say things like I'm not really sure when I got saved because I don't know if I was really women I walk with the Lord I was so carnal like looking back I can't even tell and my thought is me either but you are now so that's nice praise God now you're walking with the Lord now we see the faith and the fruit so we have confirmation so I think that's a good thing verse verse 10 it says and if Christ is in you the body is dead because of sin but the Spirit is life because of righteousness the Spirit is life because of righteousness your eternal life here is maintained by the righteousness of the Holy Spirit your life the righteousness required for life that comes from the Holy Spirit not from yourself that's that's um this is all consistent with the whole Old Testament about the idea of dead because of sin the life because of righteousness so in what way for you as a Christian is the body dead because of sin well it seems to me that death has a whole lot of angles to it isn't it's like I said it you know if someone stops breathing they died but if someone you know each of the fruit they die if someone has a carnal mind there that's death then there's the second death so it's obviously multifaceted but what what way for you as a Christian is your body dead because of sin well it's in two ways one I have that death sentence upon me of sin and death but also there's something else I am to reckon the old man dead remember Romans 6 I'm to consider that body and the carnal desires with it as dead to me and myself alive to the Holy Spirit like Paul says in Galatians 4 I've been crucified with Christ it is no longer I who live but Christ lives in me and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me that this is a positional reality that I live out in my life and that's kind of the point that's what I want to kind of end on tonight is that God wants to empower you to live the Christian life simply by his spirit not by the the works of your own flesh and all you have to do is set your mind upon the spirit and walk in it and you will experience more and more of this because it's quite possible that maybe some of us are still carnal in some ways or maybe we weren't before and now we are maybe backslidden into it but there is a spiritual mind and mindset that as Christians God's calling us to have like I think every moment of every day it's not the kind of like spirituality where we like stand there and kind of like hold our noses up above people you know we're like like the teachers got to wear a robe like nothing's wrong with rose if you want I don't care but the point is it's not about that it doesn't mean anything like you know the robe means it just means you can like hide shotguns more easily like I don't really know what it means like it doesn't mean anything but it's the kind of thing where it the obsession of my mind the focus of my desires is upon the things of the Holy Spirit and the things that God wants this is the thing this is where we go from just theology to like living it out in our lives that's what Romans 8 is largely about is not just the theology that's how we play it out in our lives so let's in with verse 11 it says here but if the spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you if you are saved he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his spirit who dwells in you now if sin equals death then him giving me life means me living in righteousness not maybe sinless perfection I'm not preaching any up but let's not compromise the fact that we can walk in a righteous life in our lives and we are we in California we are surrounded by so much compromise that I feel like each of us on our own has to come before God and say you know Lord I want to live a holy life even if nobody else does so help me to live this out not so that I could become the judge and discerner of everybody else and their intentions but just so that I can walk close with Jesus so I can abide in Christ so I cannot carry the compromises of the last generation into the next generation I just want to follow Jesus I want to live this out and and then what will be amazing is the areas where you're especially good at that's going to inspire me and the things that I'm better at I'm going to inspire you and we'll lift each other up and the body will become more and more of that Bride of Christ spotless like we're supposed to be so I think Romans 8 is giving us a fresh way of thinking about issues like sin and righteousness to overcome these battles and to do it from a positional place instead of a performance thing let's pray father God we thank you for your word we thank you because it confronts our minds and is renewing us even now as we hear it our prayer tonight is this Lord we want to walk in the spirit and we want to have our minds set upon the things of the Spirit to set aside the flesh not to obsess over it not to not to sit and have prolonged battles with it just to set aside the flesh to walk in the spirit Lord let us be a people who walk in through the righteousness that you've given us who overcome temptations in sin and who know the power of Christ in us in Jesus name [Music] uhh [Music] you [Music]

Channel: Mike Winger

Views: 22,674

Rating: 4.9230771 out of 5

Keywords: Mike Winger, verse for the deity of Christ, deity of Christ, habitual sin, overcoming sin, how to break habits, a renewed mind, BibleThinker, think biblically, Romans 8, Romans 8:5-10, total depravity, dead in sin, what is death according to the Bible

Id: qjhTfaH9n8I

Length: 49min 17sec (2957 seconds)

Published: Mon Jun 26 2017