DawnCheré Wilkerson + Erwin McManus - Creativity And The Church / VOUS Conference 2018

I'm so thankful to even have this conversation on feedback cerumen yeah I think it's really special at last year when it's the first year that we kind of brought back these braid out moments and I love the opportunity just being an intimate setting and to get to hear your heart today the thought is of church and creativity you have two incredible kids who you have helped navigate the individual creative path the guts destined for them but I know that just as much care and concern you take for Ryan Aaron the reason why was a is as special as it is is because you beat the teen with that much care and concern and I think that as creatives you said they found out that you were good at speaking writing all of these incredible creative spaces that you fill but I think for a lot of times for a lot of us as creatives we are really critical of ourselves and often we can find a passion or we can find something that lights up our life and makes us come alive but then we can't move forward because anytime we take a step we tear ourselves apart or maybe we work on something expecting to reach a state of perfection before we actually share it with anyone yeah well you just kind of talked a little bit about that because I think all of us deal with that the insecurities the fear the criticism of ourselves how do you move past that and work with people as well be comfortable to share your ideas and let people text your ideas because that happens in church a lot right yeah I mean I was frustrated I I miss pounds for words of my talk this afternoon top and no I did I and I was really upset with myself I don't I just do not like mispronouncing words I work really hard I don't if you can tell one way we didn't catch one of them no yeah it's because people here in a totality and so you don't always like you'll feel few fill in what the person should have said you don't even know it you know and some of you will you know so it's frustrating for me when things I learned how to do is instead of a lot of times going back and saying the word again I just let it go and I go that's a imperfection as a part of the perfection yeah good yeah or then if I say wrong I just go oh I get to say a second time for emphasis I'm not correcting it I'm building on it okay you know and then at one point I I mispronounced the word not thought okay someone will read that as me being an immigrant and because I just said it with an accent and these are thoughts I'm having while I'm speaking you know and I'd have to decide while speaking so I go back correct it do I leave it alone do I think anyone who's not high for a compulsive isn't really built to create great things hmm it doesn't mean you can't have a great life and do beautiful things but there is there is a compulsive nature to greatness and so this is back to the language thing everyone's leader right yeah except there it was not right because you can look at everybody go yeah yeah it's not really a lady you know but I'm a pretend you're leading and so here's a dilemma we say everyone's leader but then the problem is that we've just defined all these people who aren't leading as leaders right so how do you have a leadership conversation saying hey you're not really like doing your job but you just told me everyone's a leader yeah and so we keep giving everyone titles and definitions and without having actually materialize them does that make sense so we're in a dilemma we're trying to be so empowering or calling everybody something and then how do you then identify the person actually took on that hmm and what do you think is the way to move forward to empower I think yeah because I'm just pointing out that the Dharma is your generations kids you want to empower people I think that it requires more intense honest they go look I'm gonna call you out based on your potential yeah but eventually it has to be proof of product I believe that whole heart right lately and because like if I'm gonna call you a leader eventually you have to stop being manipulated and controlled by the crowd right eventually you get to be the person who shapes the environment of the room rather than saying well I was in the wrong room hey because if you're a leader you're actually never in the wrong room because the room always becomes what you created that's right yeah so good and how do you allow how do you walk into spaces in your life what have you discovered to allow the environment not to impact you but for you to influence the environment I've always been stubborn enough to not be influenced by the environment I haven't always been intentional enough to always influence the environment you know yeah and and so if the environments corrupt yeah I don't become I remember one time in this is like not neither here nor there but I went to Australia like 25 years ago when I met with a really famous theologian and he called me a massive we could meet in size a chair so we met for breakfast and he said to me oh man I wanted to meet you for dinner because you're an American and and so I know that you don't drink so I wanted to force you to have a beer cuz you're in my culture and he just assumed I didn't drink and and I didn't and he was right and but I said you don't really know me if I was in Brazil and you were standing there naked I didn't I wouldn't feel obligated to be naked and I said if we had dinner I wouldn't drink if I didn't feel like it and this I've always had this sense of just be your own person stop trying to be what everybody else wants you to be you know like but in packing an environment is a different thing yeah you know and and that takes so much more intention and I do think that that's something you and rich accept into so quickly in your lives you're so intentional you I can't imagine you being an environment that you would not shave and insist you have to kind of know yourself and you have to not base your value and how other people perceive you or respond to you it's great you know because someone had asked me because I mean one of the difference is probably like with maybe like my own journey is no one really has ever seen any photographs of me with famous people and and so they wouldn't either conclude that I don't know famous people or or that I didn't do that on purpose and I didn't do it on purpose and part of the reason is I would tell people like books I don't ever put endorsements on my books and if publishers asked me see why won't you put endorsements on your book we need these endorsements and I said because if I need their endorsements but that's actually saying is their endorsements is of higher value than my work and Sesa so I'm just not gonna put a dorsum son I'd rather have no one buy it and one of my guys just posted a photograph of him and some celebrities I mean like right away he goes and he put on there when my friends are celebrities and I'm like and I kind of like sit down with coffee last week this is you know it's hard celebrities are awesome right and I said now watch you know something if you were a celebrity celebrities take photographs of celebrities but they don't call them celebrities they call them friends so you are now less than that celebrity because you needed whatever they had to give you and I said and look this is the thing when you're in the room with anyone I don't care who that person is how famous they are how rich they are you know I'm probably in room with more billionaires than I am like celebrities okay you know like the people who pay the celebrities exactly you know but I always remind myself is something really significant to me I don't need them right I don't need their celebrity I don't need their money I don't need anything they they need what I have more than I me what they have yeah that's the key of going in the room you just yeah you're not working the room you know go in their room and keep the main thing the main thing yeah hey just be yourself yeah you know and it's a beautiful thing and just recently I had this guy he said he lost two billion dollars in the last 18 months I don't know what that's like you know and flew out we had coffee and I had a conference here could meet so I said sure you know and he read a check for $100,000 you know to give to the church and got on the plane and I just sent him a text I email I said hey you know I just want you know I'm sure you have lots of friends but if you need someone I'm here and he sent mean I know right away he goes I don't have any friends hmm and that's been the overarching experience I've had my life is that if you know how to create a beautiful life yeah you're rare and that commodity is worth more than fame or money are and it speaks to the value of the church yeah speak for the value of community that people are looking at of what you said it they're not celebrities that they say they're your friends you know I think it voo it's like somebody comes in you may know their name but we want to give them space to hear the voice of God not to take pictures to be able to blend in with every other person who's a son of God a daughter of God and the say I'm part of this global family and I think I've heard that story from so many people in my life of they have it all yeah you know but they're so lonely they're so empty and I think it's a reminder for all of us that we just never know who we're talking to we can't make assumptions about where people are the Holy Spirit leads us I was in the car when rich got a call from Kanye asking you to marry them no way he goes what do I do is it you marry them yeah I remember him talking to you about it tell him to Mary spoke to you and said what should I do you said you may be bad it's not it's not like you called Konya same kind of marry you that would be weird yeah it's the way around and I go no like when that person invites you into the world you go in it that's right yeah you have the opportunity don't worry about what the church is gonna say about you or Christian you can say about you again say it about you anyway okay so what inspires you how do you continually find wonder around you you guys do definitely inspire me and you and reg and vu and the conference was like is it blows me away you know I just came from Bogota there right from right here that a church called soup inocencia and you know it and like 30,000 people crammed into their buildings I spoke on Wednesday night I think was like four thousand and four thousand and two sources and they said we can't advertise yeah you know I'm inspired and I listen to the pastor and you get to hear a story and I like unique stories from people like Gary Clark was an equestrian laugh game guy and you know he rode horses I used to ride open jumpers and and so I like people who are orchestra conductors and our equestrians and you know they were there in neuro scientists and then they became you know humanitarians or I I just find people I found people the most inspiring thing in the world you know is a unique this ingenious inside of people but I'm inspired by less less noble things I love food same you know I'll have a good meal I mean I'm inspired by great food I'm inspired by chefs like Tasha chefs one of my first shows I have the shirts for it if I could if I could choose another life I would either be a movie director or chef you've got plenty of time yeah I I love the genius of chefs I love how they begin the whole process from growing things to you know from setting them on the table from the artistry of the design you know those things really inspire me so I take time and I when I travel like what are the best restaurants in the world and I don't care what you think so everybody says I was incredible and I go and I have eaten and you're not a vegan no but I had taco weren't tacos so today I got a sense that you were not a vegan today no I know I respect vegans and yeah politically correct thing to say Mariah said to me be kind I think I'm always kind and I've actually told me I needed to be nice because last time we did this was rich I kind of gave rich a really hard time thank you for not giving me all right I never try well hey I think I'm not sure even sure how much time we have left but I do want to ask a few more questions what time is it guys 5:02 we got some time we're good um I know this room is full of people from all different walks of life it is roomy for by the way these things inspire etc inspires me like this is like amazing it is this entire building is amazing I'm so grateful that we were able to fill it go ahead sorry but no I'm with you I love it it's a beautiful space but every single one of you I know so many of the stories in this room and you guys all occupy different spaces in our society and you know all different ages represented there are people in this room there are musicians I'm looking around the room lawyers people who are in school right now there are pastors in this room and I think for all of us what would you say to us as we try to figure out our own purpose and identity because creativity I think obviously God is so creative he every one of us have a unique and individual path but as we try to decipher what it is I think so many times we put so much pressure on the single steps that we end up not stepping at all you know and what would you say to us just whatever's on your heart really when it comes to church and creativity and by church I just mean community because I think creativity is fostered in community yeah I think Sara things wanna just realize wherever wherever you're at whatever discipline you're in whatever career you have you can actually choose to bring creativity to that place I mean all of us have had bad teachers that made us hate a subject and have had beautiful teachers who made us love a subject and so you I would say just realize that whatever field you're in if you add your creativity your beauty your artistry I'm yourself if you bring yourself that's what as you're bringing your soul to me creativity is the externalization of the human soul and so the moment you take your soul and you bring it out you can make a better world and and so you you may say if you're teaching teaching math maybe you're not gonna have world-class mathematicians come on that class but if you show them how creatively interesting fascinating math is if you create a place where their imagination is opened up that will transfer to other arenas in their life and they'll realize that everything can be creative yeah so you know if you're you know if you're a lawyer if you're you know a doctor you know the difference between phoning it in and bringing your most creative self to work every day you know and and that's I just think the world would be so profoundly different if everybody brought their most creative passionate beautiful self to everything in life and and marriages would not end if both partners stayed creative in their marriage you know but like when we give up on the creative process of love and one of the things that I accidentally said in Bogota and the great thing about having Limited languages you have to search for what how you can say what you can say and and and I said in Spanish the gods favorite color is love and that when God paints that's how he paints on the human spirit that's like his most profound color beautiful and and so like when you bring love into anything it changes everything yes you know and it's a parenting and so that that would be like the overarching thing the on the church side the experience on Sunday is not supposed to be everyone's platform to show their creativity that was a big problem we had at Mosaic please share a little bit more about that because I think that's a great thing that I don't think we talk about very often yeah there's other things I can talk about cuz we just really messed it up and like yeah we had I think 20 years ago the LA Times said we had the highest concentration of industry artists of the world and one church do you know how hard that is they have 3,000 mildly narcissistic and okay I was in Hollywood right yeah they were not mildly narcissistic they believed wildly narcissistic openly narcissistic and artists who believed that the church and give them a platform now that we're an expression of creativity and as long as we gave him a platform they were all in in the moment to give to someone else you know the church wasn't there for them anymore and so I shed everything that every platform I mean we're lot of churches doing stuff around the world that we don't do anymore you go in there and you know and say if you can the mosaic Oh where's all the art yeah guys like you we used to have stand-up comedy I mean on Sunday fan comedy films dance painters everywhere we were an explosion of artistry and the two things I had to really fight was people started feeling like oh it's only about art no go no it's about your life being a work of art I don't give you're a teacher a doctor architect or a barista yeah this is the metaphor you know and now on the flip side the feeding of the narcissism of don't we get a platform you know a lot of churches maybe not here I maybe I shouldn't say this it's still kind yeah and like a lot of churches are narcissistic because they think that they should use their spiritual gifts in church and salvation speaking times and it's just like it's just narcissism and we just make it spiritual and cuz really why do you need to speak in tongues in on Sunday in front of everybody or like churches where everyone has to prophesy like ever been in less places everybody come and give you like you don't even know me like you know you I'm in and I'm gonna give me your prophetic word sure and then 20 other people and the prophetic word isn't for me it's for them it's their own sense of ego need so I when I became Christian about how most spiritual gifts are just in a spiritual eyes version of narcissism well we got to change that to the to a artistic version of our citizen and so now it's like you get to paint you get to act you get to dance and we kept going back going no this is a all about Jesus and be all built on character yeah and and those are like your ex and why that is you know so when we did sports I've had people say hey why can't we just play to win I said you can't go join a league yeah here we play to win and to bring everybody of Jesus so we still need to win because I'm so competitive yeah but like I would have people say why do we have to play this sport and have unbelievers on our team I go you don't go to the YMCA they don't have this condition but if you're gonna play soccer with me you know on the league we're gonna have lots of people who don't know Jesus there's a purpose here yeah we so it's like keeping your intention your purpose your mission it's all about Jesus and bringing the world to him and then it's all based on character I don't care how talented you are you don't have the character to carry that talent we can't let you sink the whole the whole show yeah you know because you are the hole in the bow of the ship if you have a lot of talent and no character and we we try not to but let's be honest we all are really drawn to talent it's just we're like moths of flames yeah the talent is a flame not always the light okay yeah so we we've made a huge adjustment sometimes I don't mean I don't make micro adjustments like when I go yeah I just wipe everything out and I go yeah nobody nobody nobody's getting onstage you know why because you bunch of narcissus we got to break this like you know like you know just feed the wrong setting you saw I mean we had the largest Improv community in the United States in the world probably yeah and but they lost their mission and the moment we felt like Jesus was not walking in the room I should I destroyed it because I said like I don't have a calling to create the greatest improv artist in the world I have a calling in a mission to bring all those improv artists to Jesus and you know we we had part of the largest fashion event in Los Angeles had over a thousand people come into our fashion that you know original design runways the whole thing and and the moment it felt like Jesus was invited in the room just cancelled it was last one okay so I'm ruthless oh yeah look I am do you know why cuz I was in the fashion world I was in the film world yeah I was in the business world if I want to do that I'll go do that right yeah to me the church is it I had someone email me one time this is kind of funny their love email story yeah yeah they said hey we're gonna be bringing our unbelieving family for the next three weeks because they were all Jewish could you not mention Jesus for the next three weeks I got that these are friends of mine too this these people I work with in the in the film industry and so and and I sent an email back going yeah I can't do it cuz this is not my place this is jesus's place yes we could not mention me for three weeks so we can't yeah Jesus so why don't you just get a little more honest with your family and tell them you're going to Jesus's place in that way they're not shot guys that's good comments to us and their dear friends they just they don't share our faith and they're like can you not talk about him as much and we're like he's all we talk about if you're gonna come to charities all we're gonna talk about every Sunday this is his place as you said it's so beautifully it's welcome that goes I agree with everything you say but you at the end of all your talks you always seem to get fixated is there any way you could like tone that down and uh you know I told her I said hey I'm sorry that my story isn't adequate for you because Jesus is the only story I have gee she was so apologetic cuz like I put it on her like hey I'm sorry that my story is because you know how he talks about you know share your truth yes what you're actually saying to me is don't share your truth exactly you know and someone you know it's like hey look if Buddha had changed my life a Christian I said might have changed my life or if Freud or anyone else had changed my life I would be sharing that story yeah so I told her I said you know this is the only story I have he's on and I can't share with you a story of my life changing except of how it changed and I should super apologetic because I'm so sorry no no your story's good enough but everybody wants to say share your truth except when your truth is Jesus yeah it's true yeah sound like hey if you want someone to tell you a Buddhist your life this is go some work the place there's I imagine someone maybe right yeah you know but this isn't the place yeah yeah it's powerful it's and the power of creativity to convey the message of the gospel you know whether it be through music that transcends languages you know it's it's incredible what we can do is we come together in a community I find often that with for those of us that are working specifically in creative spaces it can be hard sometimes to work as a community on a team in unity and often when there is conflict because we feel deeply because we create our feelings can lead us to a place of isolation they can lead us to a place of rejecting the family that God has created for us not just to participate in but to actually be shaped within for those rough edges to be rubbed off and for those emotions to be put in a place of health and for us to grow and to thrive within but it's easy to isolate ourselves I think just my last question for you is as a creative how have you inspired the people you lead because you're you're in a city where people come in and out and it's easy they'll come in for one week and be all in and I already know the story you know and then you never see them again or maybe they come and they say they're all in for four weeks and that's that's a big thing for them and you think they're gonna be a part of the building process and then they're gone how have you spoken to creatives the truth of being planted first of all I've looking at Mariah when you were speaking those one she's just so good I just doing a little like you never lose your narrative you just never lose a fly and there's just something you you have one of the best internal compasses I've ever seen and it's just really powerful and I think and you know it's like one things that you only get in church the kind of compass that you have in community in relationship to other people and because I've never really heard you talk about anything that you needed I only hear you focusing on what everyone else needs and that's it's it's like kind of like metaphysical you only know yourself when you get yourself out of yourself yeah it's like you know and the moment you start giving your life to other people and building other people it's who you are becomes clearer and clearer and clearer I think that's why it's like you have such a clear sense of self because your life is so focused on building people I think building the church is the most difficult thing in the world and when I I wasn't gonna keep doing this and I ran for you quietly but hard and I thought I was already like planning my exit and I felt like the thing that God just spoke deeply inside of me is or when I want you to stay as an artist but the material that I care about most is the human material and this is the material that God uses and yes interesting Picasso actually said that cingulum was important elements in art is love and Monet said the same thing van Gogh says the same thing like it should we should actually pay attention when the people we think are the greatest artists in the world keep going back to somehow love is the central ingredients of all great art now if the church is core essence is faith and hope and love how in the world one I don't know how we missed that the church is supposed to be the epicenter of human creativity like how in the world did the church ever not become that but I think it's one of the reasons why the church is so bound in the past because the moment the church begins dreaming at the future it becomes a creative big and tradition and our fear the future as has neutralized the creative essence of the church so one things I just say really upfront is the church to me is not supplemental it's essential it's great you know like I didn't leave the church when I wanted to run because I knew I needed community I don't think I would even still be here if it wasn't for the church I certainly would never found my gifts my talents I would never found my ability to dream and envision I I feel like the church transfer me and and made me who I did know I could become it's incredible even with the conflicts like Mariah and I walked this morning talked about some of the hard years that mosaic some of the really painful part of the journey if you always run from crisis if you always run from conflict if you always run for community you may reduce the amount of pain in your life but you also reduce the amount of change in your life Wow and so if you stay in it right if you stay in if you stay in community there's gonna be that someday like you start you love pastor rich and DC you think they're awesome you're gonna be here long enough where something you want they're not going to let you have yeah you know a role you want or you know the first thing when you needed someone and then they were supposed to raise someone up and they didn't because they they needed that role more than they needed to serve yeah and then you have to move them and put someone else that place then the bitterness that's in it those are the moments you decide whether you're gonna say the same or change the moment where you go oh the moment you start seeing all the imperfections like you know I was at a church in New York really large you know ten thousand and somebody was saying all these negative things about the pastor I said okay what one of the things about your pastor didn't you know last year when you loved him like crazy well I knew all these things about him I said that's right you knew all those things like them last year what changed isn't him it's you [Laughter] anyone who follows me is gonna follow it in perfect human beings if you want 80 reasons to justify why you shouldn't trust the church and go to church and you know deflect all you want the real issue is you don't want to change and so you need a reason not to change some people come to me goes well I don't trust the Pat I don't trust you or I go hey find a church well you have a pastor you trust people say about ties they go well I'm not ready to give I don't trust the church with my money I go oh and then find someone you trust yeah but don't use a pastor as your excuse to hide your greed it's really great it's not pretending I used to I used to put up signs on some days they had UNICEF charity water and something else like World Vision I'd say if you're here and you don't give because you say you don't trust the church I want you to start tithing through one of these organizations so you can't use us as an excuse for your greed and that's creative that's really creative come on [Applause] [Music]

Channel: VOUS Church

Views: 7,441

Rating: 4.9574466 out of 5

Keywords: dawnchere wilkerson, erwin mcmanus, vous conference, breakouts, art, creative

Id: pFiD3JkFkNc

Length: 33min 22sec (2002 seconds)

Published: Fri Aug 10 2018