David Asscherick: Letter to Young Leaders

whatever your hand finds to do do it with all your might whatever situation you find yourself in whether it's an optimal situation or a compromised situation life has its seasons and it's cycles you might not be where you want to be but maybe where you are now is a necessary stop on the place where you want to get to whether you're entering into the path of ministry for the first time or starting a new profession it's easy to get discouraged when our grand hopes of what we imagine life will be like are dashed upon the rocks of life's harsh realities so how do we avoid burnout how do we navigate the landscapes of loneliness and displacement how do we learn to adjust our expectations with each season of life and bring our very best to every circumstance on this podcast episode of Advent next we are continuing our discussion with David Ash Rick as he gives young leaders advice on how to weather both the heartaches and joys of growing into our calling if you're not already following us on Facebook and Instagram you can find us at the handle at Advent next joining me as my co-host is max akka and I'm your host Kendra Arsenal and this is that that next so I kind of want to you know and we talked a little bit about this on the first episode but kind of looking at you know your ministry right now you're kind of living of the optimal ministry life and some people might be someplace where they're in a church of 20 people they don't feel like they're they're living their optimal life what would you say to those young pastors or even just professionals who feel like they're not quite where they want to be in life wow this is a question that I've wrestled with a lot because I am absolutely mindful Kendra of the fact that I live a bit of a charmed life I'm in a good situation where I can kind of decide what it is I want to do and where I want to do it and who I want to do it with I have an incredible wife and two beautiful kids so I get it right like I realize I'm in a situation in ministry that is very different to some situations now there are lots of other people that have great ministry situations too I'm not I'm not exceptional in that regard but there are others that are just pastoring three church for church districts 200 miles you know between churches my home state of Wyoming is one of those places where you have churches that are you know here and then you drive a hundred miles than here and then on a triangle 50 miles here so and it's not the distance really that makes those situations difficult it's the fact that you often find yourself in these churches where maybe the town itself is not going very well economically the world is kind of moved on and the church is still sort of sometimes stuck in that same place of it would have been a great church 40 years ago or 30 years ago and a lot of times what happens is they put young pastors in these young idealistic passionate pastors and they want to sort of the you know conference administrators want them to cut their teeth in these difficult churches but it often creates this sort of difficult mixture because they're young and they're passionate and they're idealistic and they're a different generation and then they go into these churches and it creates I think in some circumstances unnecessary conflict because you have what might be an older church and a more traditional Church and so yeah it's tricky it's it is tricky and I want to concede that I know that but what I would say is basically whatever your hand finds to do do it with all your might whatever situation you find yourself in whether it's an optimal situation or a compromised situation life has its seasons and it's cycles and I'm 47 years young right now notice I said young 47 years young not 47 years old but I'm in the situation that I'm in in part because for lack of a better term and this will make me sound really old and really traditional but I paid my dues right like I did Bible work for years and years and years and I made next to nothing and I lived in people's houses my my oldest son Landon who's 18 years old now was born in Atlanta when we were living in somebody else's house a dear sister that we just met Jodie Bowen like my son was born there and so yeah that was a different situation no stability we weren't conference employees so everybody sort of has their journey into ministry we were talking a little bit about your journey UCLA and you said yeah you know circuitous path which is great so we all sort of have our journeys and you find yourself in those seasons and in those cycles where you might not be where you want to be but maybe where you are now is a necessary stop on the place where you want to get to you follow me Gregory Boyd the evangelical theologian says we make our decisions and then our decisions make us right and sometimes you have to make decisions today that are less than optimal and maybe other people make decisions for you less than optimal situations in terms of your career your desire your passion where you want to live what you want to do but maybe you're trying to get somewhere and we don't all just get to decide hey I'm 26 years old I'm freshly out of school whether it's in ministry or in some other area and I just want my best life yeah right I want to be paid great I want to live where I want to live I want it doesn't work like that you got to kind of pay your dues and so if it's a ministry context whatever your hand finds to do do it with all your mind do it with excellence get in there don't what I would say and this is just a little word of caution don't go into churches that have a sort of traditional format and a traditional feel and maybe a slightly older constituency I'm speaking now to some of these younger ministers don't go in and feel like you have to completely reform these situations go in there and be a servant go in there and be a minister without a strong ideological agenda or methodological agenda go in there and love these people like Jesus loves them and find your feet in ministry right and then doors will open opportunities will open and before you know it you'll blink and be 30 you'll blink and be 40 and you will be setting up the opportunity to as you say find yourself in a better situation a more optimal situation not that those others are bad but we all have those seasons of growth and becoming the best versions of ourselves I think sometimes involves being in situations that we would not have chosen yeah and even some of our metrics of success aren't thank you aren't tailored correctly and we correct we live in a society where we measure success by followers or members baptisms or however it is so what is you or metrics of success how would how do you kind of set you know the clock back or put the metrics right I like that I've preached a sermon and done a seminar recently on this very subject and I've introduced this idea this rubric that I call the X 210 fallacy and if you want to find out more you can go on our YouTube channel and find the sermon which is kingscliff youtube channel kingston love church youtube channel find the sermon that's called how to speak to anyone about Jesus and in that I talk about this idea of x2 10 so here's the idea if you have 1 to 10 and one is completely irreligious or even hostile to religion and then you have a spectrum a continuum 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 and 10 is you know baptized member follower lover of Jesus spirit-filled Christian Right and so all along that continuum you have increasing degrees of interest in being a follower of Jesus right so what we do as a church and what we do as an organization and I understand that there's a certain sense in which this is necessary we want metrics we want to know hey look that pastor is successful she's doing a good job he's baptizing people their tithe is up and the metrics that we have basically organizationally are more or less attendance baptisms tithe that's pretty much it right there's a few other metrics but that's more or less those are your metrics the problem is is that those are not anywhere near the only meaningful metrics of success right there's lots of metrics of metrics of success so for example let's say that you meet somebody who's that on our sort of spectrum here a for they're not totally hostile to religion but they're open but maybe it's a Christian faith maybe it's not a Christian faith or whatever and they're your neighbor they're your brother-in-law they're somebody who has decided to send their child to your Adventist school because it's close whatever it might be and through the course of time and friendship and connection you get to know them they come to your house you have dinner you hang out you've connected with them and before you know it a year in two years into your relationship they might now be better identified as a six right they've transitioned and now they would say something maybe more like this yeah there definitely is something out there and I believe in a God I'm not quite sure exactly what it's like but I think Jesus was a really great guy and he might have been onto something okay so here's the point you have moved somebody from a for an imaginary for to a six right you get the idea people are moving along the continuum toward a saving relationship with Jesus yeah how do you measure that hmm you don't and there's nobody in an office or in a union or conference a division office that can sit down and say yeah look at that look at that look at that so too often what we do is we look at metrics that are sort of post-harvest they're post facto metrics they're not those metrics that are leading people to the place where they're ready to make a decision they're very impersonal there yeah that's a good way to say impersonal and distant they're separated from context they're separated from experience but well said max and here's the thing this doesn't mean that those are bad metric no but what we've done is we've said these are the metrics but the truth of the matter is is there are all kinds of ways that people are moving toward Jesus and we shouldn't be tricked into thinking that only the measurable ones are the meaningful ones right now there's lots of meaningful ways that people can be advanced toward Jesus toward scripture toward a relationship with their Creator that we might not be able to measure on a data sheet or on a spreadsheet or in some report and so when it comes to me from my metrics I know this is gonna sound maybe a little facile and and not people aren't gonna love it but for me it's personal faithfulness hmm have I done my best have I studied did I communicate as clearly as I could did I stay connected with Jesus in prayer did I love those people did I go after the sermon after the presentation did I go down and meet them I'll tell you what we say in our local church people will often ask how many evangelistic meetings in your kingscliff church I've been there for the last almost six years how many evangelistic meetings have you done when you've been there how many do you do a year and I say in our local church we do 52 evangelistic meetings a year every Sabbath right rather than having evangelism as an event or evangelism is something that we schedule into the calendar we view the whole of what we're doing as an opportunity for people to come in off the streets seekers and have a point of access to Jesus that doesn't require a learning curve yeah it doesn't require familiarity with our language with our culture with our organization that can come in and learn about Jesus so we build our church services around getting people access to Jesus and that's not always measurable right right it's just not yeah no I think I think that's an incredibly helpful point we got to stop looking at maybe just those hard numbers and realize people are going to continue a continuum that's a good way to say a continuum I'm curious because I know whether it's a person who's coming into a conversion or whether they're a minister who's kind of out on the field I think something a lot of people feel or deal with is loneliness and sometimes loneliness can lead to depression especially in a conversion story where maybe this person is leaving their friends and their and their family and things that are familiar and they're entering into the wilderness journey Wow or if you are a minister who you're entering maybe to a place that you've never been before you don't have any friends or roots and they're starting to deal with loneliness they might have some on sets of depression you know have you ever dealt with that and and how old your recommendation be on how to navigate those seasons well I'm not a very lonely person just me and I'm not a very depressed person but I will say this I'm gonna circle back to that I want to say this I grew up in a home where my mother was diagnosed with what used to be called manic depressive disorder now called bipolar so I grew up my normal was that my mom would be in these periods of swinging between you know these manic phases where she would be cleaning the house and doing really well and things are going incredible and then she'd go into these lows these long lows lots of sleeping lots of sadness lots of depression and so I am keenly aware that depression is a real thing it's not just a hey you're gonna be all right everything's going to be fine there are actual diagnoseable conditions I mean the brain is the most complex thing known of in the universe right it's incredible in just the slightest chemical imbalance can create a misfiring or a you know a brain that's just not functioning optimally and so there's two kinds I think of loneliness and depression there's the diagnoseable kind and the kind that needs medical treatment right needs intervention from a professional and I've seen that in my own family and then I think there's just those sort of seasons of life that we all go through where we just think and I am not feeling connected mm-hmm I am away from my home I'm away from I mean I can somewhat relate to this I have been in Australia now this is gonna sound really forgive me for this but you know Australia is a paradise in so many ways it's incredible like I love living there we've been there for the last six years the people are beautiful the place is beautiful it's incredible however there are still times where I miss my friends I miss my mom I miss my dad my mom is going through a very difficult time right now in her health living 8,000 miles away not great and that's hard for me very hard my 77 year old father's taking care of my mom who's had early onset Parkinson's and a lot of sort of complications and so yeah there are times where I find myself thinking this world is not my home you know I'm just there's there's a sadness that's sort of even when you're in your best moments there's always opportunity for sadness and awareness of life and the difficulties of life I have been in seasons in my life where I have had incredible ministry situations surrounded by an incredible team going from strength to strength kicking goals you know just it's been awesome and then now I'm in a season where I love my local church and I love what I'm doing but I certainly miss being around tie and tie Gibson and Geoffrey Rosario in Yamil Rosario and Nathan Renner like these are my people and well I wouldn't call it outright loneliness because I've got some real connections in Australia I do sometimes feel a little displaced mm-hmm and I think we all feel that way just like man I wish I was fill in the blank yeah and I think we just have to be mindful that again life has its seasons and life has its like we talked about early on you might just have to be paying your dues so to speak so you can create a better situation going forward one of the things that I've been really committed to in my ministry is surrounding myself with a team I just don't have that drive or that desire to be the guy right you know to be the number one to be the one that everybody's looking up to the megachurch pastor that just doesn't appeal to me on any level I've always been with a team surrounded by a team I love being challenged by people in the room who inspire me you know I don't like being the smartest guy in the room I heard somebody said recently if you're this if you work in a place and you're the smartest person in the room find a different room right you need people that challenge you that will hold you accountable that you can look up to and I've always been about that in my ministry and so those seasons of loneliness for me if that's even the right language seasons of displacement have been fairly few and far between for me because I've really just decided to arrange my ministry life around situations that I know will help me to function best and for me that's always team based yeah and that's a healthy decision to make to realize we don't always have to stay in situations that are not healthy for our optimal growth no that's exactly right and in those seasons of displacement where you're you're doing what you want to do how do you navigate that with the Lord like what are some things that that help to kind of really bring peace in those situations mm-hmm no I like that one of the things I tell people a lot is it's not it's not where you are it's who you are right wherever you go there you are you know we sometimes I think fall in tune we all do this we fall into the mentality that if I had that my life would be better if I was there my life would be better if only fill in the blank things would I'm not so sure yeah I think you know like the Apostle Paul says there what is that Philippians three or four I've learned whatever state I am in therewith to be content I know how to abase and how to abound we need to get to the place where Jesus is enough hmm right Jesus is enough if you get more than that if you get an incredible ministry situation in a great church in a perfect location hey praise God but if you find yourself in a less than optimal situation and life is hard and the churches fighting you at every step and the conference is saying we want you to do XYZ and it's not what you feel called to do listen that's not great but if you've got Jesus you've got enough yeah and on that I do want to say I think that too often ministers find themselves at the mercy of the conference or the Union and I don't want to sound like I'm being you know rebellious here or that I'm encouraging dissent or anything like that but I often encourage young ministers and I say listen you have more leverage than you think you have you are not just at the mercy if you have a calling and you have a passion and you have a conviction you need to stand that's what I did in some ways people say alway you've got this privileged opera's willing to not compromise I said look this is what God has called me to do this is what I'm really passionate about and if people want to recognize that call and get on board with it hey we're gonna get along great and if not then maybe this isn't a good fit for me or for you and again I'm not encouraging rebellion or any such thing but I sometimes feel like we relate or young ministers relate to their employer to the conference just in a total role of subordination now I think we sit down at the table and we look one another in the eye because you're called by God and I'm called by God and you're not over me and I'm not over you and I'm not under you we're we're having a I believe as you can tell in a really flat management style here I feel like too often conference workers and union workers can sort of take this well he's just an intern she's just an intern and we therefore can sort of modulate and control maybe not yeah you know you go into those situations and if you feel as strong calling say to urban ministry or to youth ministry or to chaplaincy whatever it might be and you feel like the church is non-cooperative and what you know your gifting is well then you just might have to say hey look this isn't a good fit and step out into the unknown because at the end of the day you don't in answer to the conference you answer to Jesus right yeah Jesus is enough go with Jesus and on the same vein you know I think another part of what ministers or young ministers whether you're in ministry or you're in a profession is they experience burnout you know that they go hard they go with everything yes and they have all cylinders firing and then they're like I can't do this anymore can't do it so what would your recommendation be to kind of avoid that and how have you navigated Burnette thank you for asking that question Kendra first of all I've never experienced anything like burnout and I've never even been close to it and I don't say that out of pride I say that out of this you too can have the same experience but here's what you have to do whether it's in I'm going to speak specifically to the area of ministry because that's the area that I know well but it could be in anything you're in charge of your life you create the situation's that will bring about either positive outcomes or less than optimal outcomes right so when it comes to burnout one of the reasons that people burnout is number one they not in no particular order they don't prioritize their family let's just start with that we are in a season right now Violetta and myself where we are pouring our lives into our two sons landed in Jabil 18 and almost 17 I made the decision early on that I was not gonna sacrifice my family on the altar of ministry one of the reasons that people burnout is they keep telling their family just wait just wait just wait just wait you can do that for a weekend you can do that for a week you might even be able to do it for a month or two if there's those seasons of real busyness but you can't do that for years you just cannot do it and so there needs to be times even in ministry where you say hey I'm really sorry I'm unavailable I'm real I'm just not available for that I know it seems to be an emergency you're just gonna have to lean on Jesus too often I think in pastoral ministry we want to we don't want to but we act like the Messiah rather than pointing people to the Messiah Yeah right you with me so you've got to prioritize your family you've got to love your family you've got to pour your life into your kids and into your spouse you've got to get exercise number two you've just got to your body is not simply a vehicle to carry your head around to meetings right it's just not like your body we now know and I want to recommend an incredible book that you have to read if you've not read it yet you have to put this on your reading list for 2019 spark by John Ratey and John Ratey is a neurologist at neuro scientist I think at Harvard University read written an incredible book basically on the new science of exercise and the short version is this we used to think that exercise was something that you did so you could get your big biceps and your six-pack abs and your you know excellent cardiovascular fitness we now know that biceps and abs and cardiovascular fitness is actually just a byproduct of the real reason you exercise which is for mental acuity and strength you exercise for your brain your brain is the organ that benefits most from your from exercise the book is incredible and so a lot of people they're not taking care of their bodies I've been absolutely committed whether I'm rock climbing or fly fishing or surfing or hiking or trail running to taking care of my body because taking care of my body is taking care of my brain which is taking care of my mind which is taking care of my spirit which is taking care of my family which is taking care of my church right so you just have to get this is when I tell people you have to sweat at least five times a week for not less than 30 minutes Yeah right you just have to yeah so there's that aspect then you got to eat well right when do you want me to stop right I can just go on and on you've got to eat well and what I mean by eating well does not necessarily mean being a strict vegan or even a strict vegetarian I myself and what I call vegan ish right so I'm at term yeah good I'm vegan in my house and I'm vegetarian in your house right right so I go to somebody's house I'm not making a fuss about it but we are very intentional I like to say it this way it's not what you're not eating that makes you healthy yes it's what you're eating right so years ago I read the book by Michael Paul Paul ian is at it I think it's Paulaner paulien The Omnivore's Dilemma and then he had another one in defense of food and he basically says seven words eat food not too much mostly plants that's it so just eat food food that's actually food not food like substance yeah which a lot of the things that are out there food like substance so one of the best ways is you're not opening plastic you're not opening glass you're not opening a container the food that is the best for you is food that is not packaged right so you've got to be eating well you got to be exercising you've got to be prioritizing your family I personally encourage people to find a hobby find something that you love to do that gives you access to the community that gives you access to people that's fun for me that's rock climbing and backpacking and I love fly-fishing as well I've got my things that I love their skill sports they're challenging I also enjoy cycling but it's not enough of a skill sport for me Road Cycling but I do enjoy it yeah for fitness so so find those things live a balanced life get some friends and then pour yourself with all that extra energy that you've got because you're generating really a lot of energy because your brain is working better your your body's working better your digestive system is working better you're not going to burn out yeah okay something I think it's interesting like to observe about Adventist culture especially is that we have a health message and yet I don't know that we often enough actually have a philosophy of life that makes any sense yeah totally I was like what you're presenting here is saying like investing in things that are not necessarily the next evangelistic series or the next church board meeting or whatever are ways to fuel those things 100% and we do a really bad job I think the in our last podcast the the architecture one the word utilitarianism came up Wow number of times and I think we fall prey to that pretty easily yep to say like I need to do right now what is like the most effective efficient thing for getting ministry done right and not sharpening the tool itself and self-care self-care is hugely important and will often lead these very compartmental carp compartmentalize lives where we think well there's ministry over here and there's family over here and there's ex sighs over here and there's food over here no this is a hole right and something that benefits one benefits the other and something that detracts from one detracts from the other and I love the language you use there max a philosophy of life right I love this incredible statement from Ellen White in the book education she says the whole body is designed for action well then move it right like if the body's designed for action then go use it whether that's paddling for you or surfing for you or climbing for you or kayaking for you or whatever that thing is that you do cycling hiking doesn't really matter what it is but when you benefit your body you benefit your mind when you benefit your mind you benefit your spirit when you benefit your spirit you benefit your church your community your family yeah so it's incredible I think that's a good language that you use there a philosophy of life as we kind of wrap up this this program I just my last question is and I don't know if this is the correct terminology but do you have like a Moby Dick in your life a person a celebrity or somebody that you want to convert that you think about all the time and you and you're not able you haven't been able to get there yet wow that's a great question but why a Moby Dick why do you use that language just just this kind of person that you've tried to maybe I don't know the white whale yeah okay gosh yeah I tried to get um not necessarily I mean you could say like the various members of my family certainly I have two brothers and two sisters they're all beautiful people I'm particularly close to my younger brother and my younger sister I would love to see them become committed followers of Jesus that take scripture seriously I think my sister is on that journey my younger sister Elizabeth my brother's my younger brother is just one of the best people I've ever met I'm trying right now to just live a life that they will find attractive mm-hmm right like I just want to radiate the goodness of God and the love of Jesus to those around me so that we're not talking about obligation we're talking about opportunity feel like we too often communicate the essence of the religious experience in terms of obligation yeah why not opportunity right like you have an opportunity to live your best life with Jesus you have a you with me and another thing we often do we communicate about the continuity of things rather than the content of things you should keep Sabbath you should eat this way okay I'm not denying that there is a responsible Duty based element but the content is so much more than just obligation for obligations sake like God wants us to live our best life and so I feel like Kendra if if I'm living my best life I'm hopeful you know to the glory of God that those people in my life that I would love to see come across will be attracted to Christ in me right like Isaiah 60 the the glory of the lord has risen upon thee and his glory will be seen upon thee now in terms of like a celebrity I think it would be incredible if somebody like Elon Musk could become a follower of Jesus we praying for Elon pray for Elon Musk and and that would just be awesome to see one or Jordan Peterson somebody like that you know one of these guys that's got a lot of real estate in the public eye that could just become a committed passionate you know non compromising follower of Jesus that would be awesome hmm stay tuned for next week's program as we continue to explore theological conversations in the context of ministry and a life of faith once again we'd like to thank our guests as well as the Adventist learning community for making this program possible on whatever program you're listening on be sure to comment like and subscribe thanks for tuning in and see you next week you

Channel: Advent Next Theological Podcast

Views: 7,603

Rating: 4.9130435 out of 5

Keywords: Advent Next, Adventist, Adventist podcast, Advnt nxt, Andrews seminary, Andrews university, Bible podcast, Bible Study, christian architecture, christian podcast, cosmic conflict, David Asscherick, design, Desire of ages, Ellen White, Kendra Arsenault, Light Bearers Ministry, Max Aka, podcast, sda, sda church, SDA podcast, seminary classes, Seventh-day Adventist

Id: 0vzWFKMuUWA

Length: 30min 25sec (1825 seconds)

Published: Thu Oct 03 2019