Curator Q&A #11: Running Tanks | The Tank Museum

hello again it's David Willy from the tank Museum here at home to do what is our now our eleventh tank chat and those of you know the format you can skip on but otherwise just to let you know what we do is I answer some questions that people have emailed in or their from our comments underneath this so if you've got questions put them on the comments and at the same time I try and what's the word sell you persuade you to buy some wonderful things from our online shop which helps keep the tank museum going at the moment because what with everything what's going on we're closed and that makes me reminds me as well that I have my dog here with me so forgive me if every now and again I have to throw the ball for the dog and keep him occupied because that's kind of part of the deal and thank you by the way all those of you who comment on having Finn on no he's I'll be back he's lost the ball okay we're back so the ball went somewhere he couldn't get to so yes and thank you for those who commented who like Finn and he's part and parcel of the deal as we see and so like right on with questions so let's go let's go through some of those questions that have been coming in flaps McGinty asks about how come we've got the panther he's numbered off on that peasy Panzer one pounds of two pounds of three pounds of four etc how come it comes before the tiger which is called Panzer six is tiger when we all think the pant the tiger goes into service first this is one of those interesting questions I again I forgive me I'm not at the Tank Museum or I haven't got always access there so the idea what I wanted to do was go and look up from the German sources because that's where obviously the answers really there is in the German records and the guys who have translated those records I'm not fluent German speakers so that idea there that I believe and I think someone has already commented on this and we've answered this question somewhere else before I think it's because when the Germans were setting up the system so we all know about the SDK of said system which is where it's a unique number to an individual vehicle type with the Panzer 1 panzer 2 etc that panzerkampfwagen series it's more to do about the role that was established in the 1930s rather than it just so happens this one begats that one begats this one because when you think about it of course panzer 3 and four being developed at exactly the same time so there's no real this one was first in this one was second hence third and fourth if you see what I mean in that way so actually it might well be about its role and I can't remember because I haven't got them all written down what those different categories were which maybe is reason that the Panther fits that panzer 5 category rather than the Panzer 6 category which is of course a heavy tanks and we know Tiger 1 and target till the King Tiger becomes part of that Panzer 68 series so I think that's the answer but I need to verify that and check that up again sort of stuff but it is one of those ones it's all ways it comes around every now and again it's bit of a conundrum why have we suddenly got the Panther before the tiger when we all know that it's the Tigers out there first on the battlefield right I know right can I remember I am writing it char Jacque is it s har J okay says did they recycle bullet and shell dressings in the Second World War yes they do and it leads me on to actually another question which is here which if I can find it for you which was a question about markings on a case where are we here we go sir sigelei slayer says he bought he managed to buy a flak 80 a armor-piercing dated 1944 and he says what one of those markings on it now what happens is obviously when it rounds produced you have the projectile in the case that contains the propellant those cases can be reused they go back to the factory they refilled they have a new primer put on them and on the bottom and again this is where it gets a little complex every country has a different stamping system to indicate that this case has been filled how many times because there is a finite limit obviously to the number of times the case can be used before the metal the fatigue in it etc that stress of the explosion especially around the lips at the wear it crimps on to the actual casing of the projectile there's going to be a limit to how many times you can do it so they stamp on the bottom how that's done and sometimes that's done in a code sometimes it's dot sometimes it's a number so that's one of those things as well yes they are being reused because another question that came in that business about do they recover them yes these are things that cost money to make quite often again in Germany earlier on they were brass casing later they go for what they call spun steel which is lacquered so it doesn't rust this is precious metal in many ways so the idea that it's collected and fed back there is a system for doing that different countries different times ways of actually collecting it you'll see pictures of even French schoolchildren being you know paid a few francs to go and pick up all the empties all to his type of thing but in Britain like in the First World War Second World War there was official dumps where the material went to and we had people like what becomes the Pioneer Corps at some point in Britain they in the Second World War they are tasked at times with this battlefield Salvage how do we get the stuff off where we've been fighting that's useful so again you're see sometimes obviously the frontline fighting troops they'll be piling up the ammunition they don't necessarily think it's their job they're not the ones going back you know like sort of checking in they fired 10 rounds here's 10 NT cases can we have another load so they've got more pressing things to be getting on with but the tasking is given to follow-up troops where it's where it's practical and where it's possible to do this is not an issue as you can imagine in some bits of the campaign if you're on a retreat fire everything going and then you just tend to bug out and get the hell out of there rather than the idea you're going to be accounting for every last bit of brass that you've left behind you so rounds are reused and as I mentioned why do I say that one about the markings because each country has different ways of marking up its rounds some of them if you pick up a brass case look on the base some of that marking is very clear you can see straight away it tells you what it's for the caliber of the weapon other times that marking is in code and understandably so now with the flak 88 we're just talking about then what tends to be on there is a three-letter code which is three letters to indicate the manufacturers and why they put three letters it's fairly obvious if you think about it you don't put crop of s and or the name of the factory because then when we've picked up all the other sides picked up that case we can go on there's a target to bomb will will do that hence the Germans came out with a three-letter code and if you get very excited about these things there's things online and there's books out there this is one I've had for some time and just dragged out and it explains what those three-letter codes are and what the manufacturers are some become very famous I saw icon etc or whatever the spanned out work so Mauser worked in Berlin that sort of thing other ones are a little bit you know harder to find but those three letters they're an indicator of the manufacturer done in a code form that goes on to about 45 it changes a couple of times which yet another complexity you have to follow through so that'll be on there there'll be a lot number normally about three figures depending on the size of the factory of course there's a date of the year of manufacture on the base and then there'll be a three or sometimes four letter code number and that number is just basically the lot number for that year so you start probably at 1/2 whatever work your way through the year and the idea is so that if suddenly there's a group or this one blows up on its own something goes wrong with the ammunition you can backtrack the lot number and see if there was a problem and also warn other people if they've got that lot number there there we go again for the dog and that's another one of those things you'll see on the bottom quite often they'll be there as I mentioned already the actual what the gun is that it's firing and sometimes they'll even explain it you know because eight point 8 centimeter there were a number of weapons there so whether it's flak whether it's the anti-tank gun and sometimes there's also after that they will say what the case is made of so sometimes there's a bracket st for steel or Stowell and steel so there's a way that works as well so there's another code there on the bottom and again there's with the flat ones I think it's either a dot or stamping the indicates each number goes back to the factory you add another dot the stamped and the the bottom of the case and that indicates again there you're looking at how many times it's gone back for refill and so another whole subject there but I hope that answer that one about the flat one but but ammunition that idea of reusing what goes on with these things everything else all part of our our story of course right let's go back round then and let me have a look start again Matthew Nightingale asks the question tank museum creators across the world do you get to get together do you have a swap forum or something another yes there's something called tank net which is the group of what you would call via fill tank museums or collections for each country and we meet we doing this now for a number of years we try meeting about September time once a year we go to each country to have a nose at their collections what their issues are what they've been doing how we can share information including you know the potential idea of exchanges swaps help can we support your event if you come to ours etc so that goes on at the moment it is very much definitely because of the nature of some of our collections because of certain national requirements in other words some collections are run by militaries etc it really is just kept to those national collection ones there rather than just any other museum coming along or collection that happens to have some tanks in it you know to chew the fat and everything but sadly this year almost certainly we're gonna have to either do it maybe a quick conference online or something else that way because we were going to go to it was Holland's turn the Netherlands turn we were going to go to this Furstenburg but can't do it this year because of all the things going on so see how that one goes but yes there is a kind of like background bit of a forum for for some of us to have a chat about things Frank Bailey's joined patreon thank you very much Frank for doing that another one of those little pictures there I know some of you have been trying to buy things off our shop and sometimes the postage do go and have a look we've been trying to sort the postage over so it's not too ridiculously expensive thank you those of you I know some of you have actually decided to just do a donation instead of actually buying something or added a little bit on the end what wonderful thanks very much for doing that do keep going back to the shop because one of the points that was made to me earlier on was the amount of stuff that were being able now to restock in some areas so I mentioned books at certain times if you go there and it says sold out you know give it a week or so and actually have another look or revisit if you're looking for something else that item may have come back in because we've been able to stock up and I'll show you some of the things in a moment that we've got back in in fact I've got some of the books here I was going to show you so we've got I know a number of you were after that one at one point the mark urban tank war book which was when I strongly recommend great following a unit individual throughout the whole the Second World War what it's like is a unit that was a great one this was the one that I miss sorry I thought I said it was a later he's men was one no it's not Achtung Panzer easy is that work bit like Charles DeGaulle bit like little heart this is Guderian before the Second World War explaining how he thinks tanks ought to be used in any future conflict so that's his kind of likes sales pitch and de Gaulle of course in France does does his work own one and there's other people that are influential there so that one there and if you see the sticker price three pounds ninety-nine you know these are not expensive books so that was one I thought was worth pointing out Churchill's Ministry of ungentlemanly warfare this idea about how Britain used the only word is maverick so I'm going to come onto one of those in a moment some of these maverick inventors you know you might call them dirty tricks but they were all these rather clever little chaps coming up with ideas about how the hell we can beat Nazi Germany and this is how they use this is a book on some of those schemes some of the people's some of the things behind it that Churchill was absolutely behind were going to you know set Europe ablaze as he says and everything else that way and again a really good one there just 399 that's that one and another one I know again this is one that's come in I don't think it was there before many of you all know Max Hastings used to be editor of The Evening Standard a journalist got into a history writing has written some very they get more and more impressive I have to say he's history writing very good well researched pretty balanced early days he kind of got it in when he was doing Normandy I think he'd still got to that you know it's funny how these these positions change as we get more information but he was a bit downing the the British performance in Normandy where actually a lot of people are much more was it really that bad you know come on look a look at what happens and what was going on and what the British Army was doing but this was one of his earlier works that's very good called - Reich and it's but it's basically about the movement after d-day of the second Panzer Division from basically central France heading north to get to Normandy and all the operations that were in place with French Resistance with all sorts of things going on to try and slow it up and stop it and the problems that caused and again that another bit of that picture you know about how the Germans were fighting in the Normandy campaign and you know this was an elite unit that was being hamstrung on its way to get there and that that again that that part of that story there so again a really good one there and again 399 so I'd strongly recommend have a look on that on the books because we've got a whole new load in very good prices so have a look there as well and that backs up on some of these earlier things I was saying throw the board again there we go mr. Finn there we go right and a quick slurp MIT from still available I love tanks from our shop is it and again all these weird names everyone gives themselves Scoob n' Michael Romo I probably got that all wrong but anyway the question was Britain currently he picked up in one of our Haynes manuals the one on the Abrams a line that said about Britain's currently lacks any capacity to manufacture MBTs he says page 35 on the Haynes Abrams manual and he says how and why is Britain in this position quite simply because we closed the last proper tank factory which was won in Newcastle it was sold it used to be the Vickers one there were a number of tank factories in Britain again we talk all about this if you have the chance to see the museum in our tank factory how over time the as an industry shrunk and I'm just doing a bit of work at the moment to do some articles on British tank manufacture in World War two and one of the things there it's this idea the official history states there is nothing like making a tank in terms of its complexity and there's no civilian equivalent and I think I've said this before aeroplane industry we fly in aeroplanes there was there is growing market tanks parts of a few tracked Road diggers and they're not armoured and they don't carry guns there's nothing like a tank you tend to make for the civilian market so you're only market is domestically is your military and if they're not buying tanks where do you go or if you're doing it internationally and that market is still fairly small and tends to be very periodic you know not everyone's after tanks all the time so that idea of how do you sustain a tank Factory in peacetime if the orders aren't coming in commercially see some companies or some governments go for a state-run factory some governments like the American works in Lima they just keep a little trickle every now and going through to almost keep the line working or keep the skill set around the place because that is a big problem and that's what I was saying in 1913 second half of 1930s when Britain starts to try and rearm we all go through the rearmament process even though tanks weren't a high priority because we were looking at the priority was the Navy and the Air Force defending the country and even where they did give money to the army it was for air defense anti-aircraft guns and ammunition there is a bitter tank development and a bit of tank building going on and that obviously speeds up as the war becomes more inevitable but one of their big problems you don't just go around or knock on someone's door and say build us a tank so they're having to do a parent company they've looked at it as shadow factory they are paying for a factory to be built the government and then handing it over to companies to then start manufacturing tank even then you've got companies very nervous about taking on tank manufacture because the minute the government says all actually everything's all right pulls the order what else are you going to be doing with all this machinery and all this other stuff there and learning a new skill set that's interesting one because again I remember when the last tank factory was closed in Newcastle there was a lot of talk at the time of we will be tracing the skill sets we'll keep an eye on as if they'll know where to go should we need to do this again number one is I don't believe that's going on in the same way number two is you can't just keep an eye on those skill sets if they're not there you know people retire they go you know they get old they die just finding people that know all the complexities of making tanks is not easy now the industry and what industry is out there would bounce it around and say give us the challenge and I'm sure we'll be able to come up with something and other armored vehicles are being built in Britain even if they're not complete you know absolutely everything's being built here like for example Ajax hulls are being built in Spain in us they're being assembled in South Wales by General Dynamics UK so fairly sizable armored vehicles are still being built in Britain main battle tanks Pearson's took over the factory I believe there is an argument that some of the really important big machinery has been kept where you need to sort of you know jigs and everything that's for turning stuff around what I'm not 100% certain is if anybody with a hand on heart could say that capacity still really exists there without an awful lot of energy and effort in which case back to we said it earlier white countries upgrading their tanks etc it's because the expense of building a new one the massive undertaking that that entails so you're much more likely to upgrade an older tank which is much cheaper and can be very very effective way to do it perhaps one day as we were you know speculation and everything will we go in with the french-german collaboration that's going on at the moment we have a watching brief on that in Britain you know to sort of see how that goes is that something that all of a sudden at some point in the future if the tank is required again by British Armed Forces which is obviously a political decision they'll turn around and say yet we need to buy into that next generation watch this space I'm from the Tank Museum my argument and all this people often ask this as a kind of question is it is very hard to ever see a situation where we won't need something that's mobile armored got great firepower direct fire etc you know on the ground whether it's meant in the future could be remote but let's see how that goes but the idea though we won't need tanks again are we've only take you know how many times we heard of that and how many times do we see tanks driving around the place isin hurt says what do they not sell in the gift shop well done absolutely I will show you some of the things they do sell in the gift shop again in a moment reminisce ghosts just Ponder's a question you just said I thought I'd mention it because we half mentioned this in a facebook post we did some time ago did they ever think of putting Chobham are more on ships there is a question I think we posted the the actual question that the Navy sent to the Ministry of Defence one point about putting Chobham on the conning towers of submarines as the kind of you know easy I say the word easy but you know it really mean a complex process but a way of giving exposed areas of a submarine maybe that extra layer of protection you know from aircraft cannon or strafing or other things that way I don't think we know it wasn't ever taken up but somewhere on our Facebook if you go back through there we've actually posted something about that but I think on the whole it's like most of these things is most ships now don't have that old idea or thick armor as protection they've got many other systems rather than the just here thickness of armor now the Black Prince asked types of weapons were carried by tank crews for self-defense any special designs now most countries you'll find if you look through I'm generalizing here they'll use standard-issue small arms or standard-issue submachine guns or machine guns to go for a tank crew for the British in the Second World War we had an infield revolver 455 and one of the versions they do they call it the hammerless although again I'll be fascinated we all say all they remove the comb on the hammer to stop it catching there's no as far as I can see absolute evidence and says that's why they did that but these hammerless info revolvers are issued to tank crew because the idea of the spur it's bound to be the case that there's less chance of anything pointing up coming away from the item you can imagine climbing and climbing out of a tank especially if you're in a hurry getting caught on something catching and maybe delaying you which could be a problem they issue them with special holsters I was going to find my one get it out but it goes on your leg as opposed to on the side earlier on in the war and that was considered again for comfort where you're sitting and accessibility later the British army they do when we have saat they do a carbine version which for the few inches difference it seems a lot of effort but it's just those few inches and their issues to tank crew and vehicle crews because they're shorter version of the sa80 and that means it's easier in turning in spaces you know in in closed environments etc I'm not sure with other countries there tends to be for secondary armed and of course there's tank variants sometimes armored barrels you look at those mg34 with an armored barrel etc but in terms of the actual personal crew protection I'm unaware of other specific weapons that are made just for tank crew but again that idea the whole principle behind it is when you're going away from a vehicle when's the time you're going to be thinking I need a pistol I need something and again you'll often have this the souvenir stories is backed up with actually I wanted compact pistol bees taking a whopping great service rover revolving around with you everywhere you know we love them we think they look great and everything you carry one of those all day on your leg or your hip you're gonna know it so the smaller the weapon you might be able to pick up and slip in a pocket or sleep somewhere you know and again that's another one you're reading a lot of accounts guys who found themselves something you know a Walther PPK or something rather you know today think that's going to be better for them than a whole one that way so anyway I hope that gives you a bit of an answer on that way Panther 590 actually asked the question well first of all actually thanks for buying our nice bullet flask well done for you for doing that and he said is our Panther ever going to be a runner our Panther one of a number that were made in the factory at the end of the war and the British supervision with some yak Panthers brought back evaluated over in Germany brought back to the UK evaluated well are you answering our panthro's from that set and then a number went off on the ranges were shot up one ended up in a scrapyard went back was bought I think it was a seventies by a German gentleman who then restored it etc so there you know the interesting story behind them and if I'm honest I think I kind of answer this question and in a way it touches on another question that was mentioned later on which is if I can find the person's Kris Abrams says a 13 we've got the only remaining a 13 when do you plan to get it up and running I have to say with all these things number one is what's in it for us and I'm not saying that in a crude way but putting all that time and energy into actually just making something run you have to question when is that worth doing how long can we run it for and what are we going to do to that vehicle when it as you just say that a 13 might the last one left is it best we keep it fairly unique that way when is it something that's worth doing because maybe we've you know as I've said before if there's a few of the veterans still around we could have recorded their stories let's listen to it run the do all that before we put it to bed forever as it were it won't run again these are questions we've been asking ourselves looking to the future what is a sustainable running fleet for the Tank Museum what are the vehicles we really would love to be able to show examples of from certain periods running perhaps decades into the future if we're that lucky enough to be able to run vehicles into the future that way because legislation I mentioned it before well if legislation chains or petrol engines at some point get completely banned and when is the time we should just be grownups as we have with our first world war collection and say actually running it however thrilling for a lot of people is going to do more damage to it or risk it in a way that is just not sensible and the other point as well which is this running a tank or returning a tank to running order can be an enormous the expensive task than someone else asks the question now how many tanks we got we've got over 300 and every one out there it's going to have all you've got a favorite this one oh why don't you get that one all this want to bring in the crowds won't if you did this all you've got unique a lot of arguments there to go through yes of course running tanks the tank museum we like doing it it helps explain it etc but again I would go back to that's why we're so thrilled with all these private collectors being able to get running vehicles going put things back in order and everything then we can invite them along to tankfest you guys have the opportunity seeing running vehicles but that could have saved us you know some of these restoration jobs are gonna cost such a phenomenal amount of money and as I keep mentioning post Covey's the world may be changing anyway you know are we gonna have any budgets to run anything so hence do buy something keep us going that way you know so those are the sorts of questions where again I'd I'd say think of the implications before just sort of saying all you know when are you gonna get that one going you know and I always like coming back to people as well as sometimes people as if like you know we're sitting on our hands all the time not you know drumming our fingers not doing anything where's yours what have you got running let's go and see that one first talk to anyone that runs one tank and you'll realize what a massive undertaking that is and you know good on them if they're being able to sustain something like that but they'll be able to tell you so also and I say that's a little bit of a hint before you walk up to people and start telling them oh by the way you've got this wrong or something else that way take a deep breath and think what that person's put into that vehicle first and secondly are you sure you're right before you get your head bitten off and maybe even your teeth knocked out by trying to say that to someone you know when they put all that time and energy into something and like I said and what have you got what have you done first before he taught us start talking about other people in that way but I'm not having that you know I'm not trying to go at you as an individual that way asking the question but it's one of those things that back to think of resourcing think of the implications think of you know the huge costs involved and also one thing because we're the custodians the risk to the item that idea we've done it all just for that benefit of maybe a couple of thousand people on that particular event and when is that kind of a risk too far if you think you've got major issues or you have a catastrophic failure which is another one that you know if that really is the last one have you been silly just trying to do something that that's not essential for our enjoyment appreciation and every think of a vehicle I'm keeping an eye it's a bit blurry here today we've also got there's been some thunder clouds around so a little bit of rain I've got to keep an eye on case I have to cover everything over write carrying on sorry I'll keep going flag signals I just had a quick look by the way someone else asks have made the point about the rimi museum it has moved it's gone to raf flying them go to their website they've got a lovely little interactive on flag signals by the way so go and have a look there they've got some great stuff online as a number of those other cool museums but when they open that's another one I'd recommend go and see it's now on the base of arias line and purpose-built museum you have to go through the basin go straight in there and it's a it's got stunning stuff got armor of course as well because they looked after recovered they've got that last Churchill recovery tank they're wonderful bits of stuff and look on their website because they've done some really good civil videos of interactivity as well phat flags thing I mean basically flag signals semaphore certain known signals that are done we've got those on this there is a big topic to just cover off here certain colored flags are known to mean certain things to different nations and of course you have more sore flag signals as backup should the wireless communications go down you're not allowed to use them so that's another one of these ones where you know almost sort of saying listen shouldn't you have this done as a simple way of doing things again especially for not just the most you know silent operations where your radio silence is required but just other simple things so the ways you can make sure people know exactly what your meaning is or what you're directing have we still got common signals in operation but you'll notice different nations they quite often have inside the turret something called a flag basket where those flags these handheld flags were actually kept but I'd suggest you look at each and there's there's each country's kind of has its own system or with Britain so semaphore and that was still being taught well through World War two so that you can actually do Center for signalling if you had to and drew Timoshenko electric systems what they tend to be in tanks mainly 12 volt or 24 volt or two a twelve volt is it in series I can't remember what you call it to make it 24 volt most tank systems are on on that because then pretty much everything else fits in with that in terms of electrical systems that you can you know cut whether they're commercially or industry it available so that tends to be the wire on that one and Bill McKelvey asks a question about I don't get that one there bill McKelvey asked the question about inflatables I forgot to bring out my 17 pounder inflatable tank shell and we've got the 75 millimeter in the the 88 millimeter ones as well which I should have bought out sorry about that but mentioned inflatables Deception those tanks Second World War and everything there is a good book which again I forgot to bring out to show you on deception for the Battle of Alamein where I think I'll write down the figure it was yes six hundred kits were made to hide tanks they were called Sun shield to make them look like trucks and vast numbers of trucks and I haven't got a figure for the tank kits were actually made to look like tanks and Alamein is an example where serious effort and energy went into dummies not actually inflatable tanks but dummy tanks wooden mock ups etc that was done in a fairly sizable scale what I'm interested in I think what your question was hinting at was when is this something that's talked about a lot but doesn't actually happen an awful lot so if you look at operation fortitude before d-day every time you find one of those books there's a picture of the inflatable tanks the number of times those tanks were used is limited compared to the enormous amount of energy that went into other areas of deception and I mentioned that as well because by this time when you think from the spring of 44 these inflatable tanks were being put in like they did with landing craft in the southeast they they built I found them 256 dummy landing craft were built they were called big bulbs what a lovely name to be doing them they were called big bulbs and they were mock-up landing craft but even there there's questioning at the time of its validity because number one is we know now the amount of information the Germans are getting from air reconnaissance is being limited because we dominate the skies and secondly we can read with ultra they're the transcripts of their information going back and forward so that in itself we know that they're not getting that information that way dummy radio traffic is what we can do and massive amounts of effort goes into that and the double cross system because we've turned the agents that the Germans drop and British military intelligence are getting them to feed the Germans false information all the time that completely outweighs the you know in terms of effigy energy effort scale compared to having you know half a dozen inflatable tanks or some mock-up that they've taken to a couple of exercises to see if they're going to work that way and by the way some of those ones it's another one of these areas where we all love the idea of inflatable tanks and they are used you know they're taken to Europe as well and there's an American unit using them there's all sorts of ways deception is being used with these but in the scale for these major undertakings they're not use that much and they're not necessarily there's an American rapport they put up these inflatables the following morning one in 10 of them has deflated all gone so floppy looks silly and you know the point being if you're trying to be convincing about this there's nothing worth and it's pretty obvious you're doing a bit of a dummy here because it's kind of you know telling you where you probably really should be looking rather than here's a field full of mock-ups what are they trying to tell us you know so that's that's another one of these areas where you you know if you read about operation fortunately the pre d-day landing one huge amount of energy and if it goes in there not an awful lot in terms of physical vehicles like inflatable tanks and even these landing craft etc compared to the energy and effort that's going into electronic dummy radio messages sending out information in other ways because that they realize it's much more effective than the random chance a couple of lone german high-level reconnaissance planes are going to make it through and take some photos that give it all the way right see how far we've got with all our questions Tom Hardy asks the question were the German tanks did they paint the base place now I've had a look and I just did check a number of factory photographs it's very hard to tell but Tony Lee on some of the photographs you can see in the factories the tone for the front lower part of the glass a plate is exactly the same as you can see in some of the footage as the belly plate so as use of you know I think you surmise in your question that I think they're painting the base coat on the belly as well as your red oxide even though if you see some of the tanks where they've read the rolled over all something's happened and later on the chance of that remaining on there after a certain amount of time as it goes over rough ground or bellies out etc gets all those striation marks through the paint and the metalwork and everything that's going to happen as time goes on but it doesn't look like I've seen no evidence that all anyone actually camouflaging the bottom of a tank so I hope that kind of answers but keep your eyes open out there because all of a sudden they'll be lovely said a photo somewhere or suddenly something's clearer that might help us understand what that base color is underneath they sort of think yeah sorry badge of 13 ask the question a couple of you said is there any chance I was doing crowd-sourced cataloging for our photos Stuart wheeler who's our archive manager actually did his dissertation on this and we had an initial go at some ideas with World of Tanks you know could we put all the images in certain places let other people have a go at them catalog them verification system you know five people say yeah they're right this is a plaintiff or else whatever all we think this is this you know location or whatever then it kind of you know gets a level of approval and you know there's a way of getting another organisation doing it we tried it it didn't really work for us at this time it may work again in the future and we have done what I can only describe as sort of crowdsourcing things in the past so for example we used to have something called a typing team we would scan or photocopy a document like a war diary or you know some lengthy official and people at home would give us a type up a digital copy so that we've got that so it's searchable and easier to use in a word document or whatever and that was another way we did that in the past and it might be something weak if we can have a look again in the future because I know lots of people out there would love to help us in some way what's the way you know when it's not time specific finding drop it when there's ways we can do these things and you know some of these documents you know we've got piles of letters if we can get perhaps a volunteer to scan them all in the first place so yes we've got them as a digital record but then so people can start looking at you know is there anyone talking about cromwell's is there anyone talking about this name that place was he engaged in then you know because that I've mentioned it before that level of cataloging really heavy on staff time and you know that means mummy so yet yet again you know they're having these wonderful things in the archive they're only going to be good to everybody out there if we can catalog them properly and it's how can we do that and which not just us every military museum many archives have got this same problem you know and I mentioned it before what what is it that needs recording because as I mentioned you know just calling our pans before but actually is the more interesting thing what's in the background in that picture is it how they're using the Panza for is it the markings on that panzer 4 is it the fact that this photo has got some annotations on it that seemed to indicate we know who the crew worked you know all those other layers that could be in there and it's like eating the elephant where do you start someone else commented yes you know we've got a system we have a database we have ways of doing this it's just the actual sheer scale of doing it and it's never quite as easy and I've not you know you can never diminish this as a problem you know for museums and archives because lots of times people have got a lot of knowledge out there but then it comes to a point of how do you interpret that knowledge onto a catalog entry there's a way of doing it there's conventions and there's everything else and even getting that done is something that really is is quite important because otherwise people in the future if you if everyone does it in their own way how do we find that how do we ask it questions how do we you know if you're field how do we call the same thing you know what is the precise name what's the common user name what's all those different things because in one conversation one question like this I bet I uses you know three or four different ways of describing the same objects so how do we do that precisely so everyone knows exactly what that is so but but yeah you know an interesting idea that we may come back to and I know other organizations are doing really clever cataloging using crowdsourcing and people there and that's something I think we've got to find ways of tapping into is your your hours your goodwill the online way we can do things to get stuff going there Mady Lorien I believe it is says how come we didn't seem to get going on world war two slope time on British tanks I think well number one is we do have slope time on British tanks it's not like it wasn't known about there's angled arm and sloped armor on things the issue with the British ones is and I think I've talked about this before is when we went in 1940 to go from the Vickers to the Beezer as a whole machine gun and again when you think early in the war this back to tank production one of the issues they're looking at the machine gun is still considered a major you know weapon system on the tank you know your anti-tank on your two pounder might be there if you happen to bump into German tanks but on the whole you were there for supporting infantry if you're an infantry tank or quite often your machine gun will be your primary weapon even for a cruiser so that hangs on as Churchill in 1940 says keep making what's in the factories don't change don't slow down it is numbers we want in 1940 and that goes on till November 41 before they start changing so this hangovers there on the British tanks to a certain degree and the issue is with the brezza for a hull machine gun mount they make a circular plate that has to bolt into a 90 degree faceplate for it to be used and that becomes a design requirement on those tanks and if you look it's used right the way up to calm it and I think I've mentioned this before I've never found it yet but somewhere someone was brave enough when they were designing the specification for the Centurion someone probably either asked the question or the army turned round and says do we really need that whole machine gun in the same way in which case Centurions the first one we sloped armor all the way down and they've done away with that whole machine gun and that means you don't need that fitting for the Bizu which is why you've got the stick plate on the cromwell on the comet and even on the church' when you look at it there rather than a slow on the plate that way in terms of the other areas the the ease of production with Cromwell things like that you know it wasn't that sloped armor wasn't known about its when you get the advantage from it and when actually just adding the extra millimeters that's going to make the difference as slab-sided armor so that decision-making process but obviously it comes in as there's more impressive castings as well as wall goes on right let me just have another there was a question here which I know was relating to sorry armed Britt said how do I organize coming and visiting you for research Tank Museum when its reopened go to archive and library and that's where it's got all the instructions there about if you want a book in what what is it you want to research so we can get the material ready or if it's something in other areas something in the supporting collations that's a way to go about it so go through the Tank museum's website please when you're asking if you're asking about that one yeah sorry I keep coming back to someone mentioned the fact about my inflatable 17-pounder the about if you filled it with water with anybody we're near I haven't been able to fill the inflatable 17 pounder with water but if you want to try this at home a real 17 pounder armor-piercing ballistic capped round is 17 point or 17 kilograms which is about 37 pounds 9 ounces okay so if you can work that one out you can start seeing as well the weight of a round you know it's pretty heavy stuff I'm determined to find this question somebody asked the question about when they started carrying a demolition charge for a tank and can I find it anywhere no I can't sorry about that but I know it was here somewhere somebody asked a question about demolition charges we had lots and lots of questions in now right I can't find it but to answer the question is British tanks you didn't carry demolition charges Royal Engineers had demolition charges but I can't find any immediate instructions for the British tanks in World War two the Germans again an excuse to show our shrunk version of the Haynes manual but all the text is in there if you fancy getting one of these I Ella straight in there we've got a picture we've actually got one in the collection and if I can say here this is what we because Tiger was supposed to be a secret weapon this idea of Hitler getting mad when he's hearing though about them being captured in outside Leningrad those first ones and it says here from July 43 crews were issued with destruction charges and I'm not gonna even tempt the German there to blow up tanks in case they were unrecoverable they were told and this is a quote from an order it is forbidden to allow repairable panzerkampfwagen 6 Tiger to fall into enemy hands end of quote the zid 85 charges were carried on a crossmember behind the driver and radio operators seat it was suggested one charge be placed in the breach of the gun I'm one in the engine bay and basically there's a tin container there's a charge in there with a fusing system on the top that you set before evacuating from the tank so the Germans had that on their ones other countries don't seem to have gone to that although there are procedures about what you're supposed to take smashing objects etc if you do have the chance on the whole most people are banding and tank in a hurry you've got other things on their mind you know when they're getting away from it so that's that's a kind of interesting question and what I might find more about other countries as time goes on my excuse about the Haines man you saw I showed you that's our smaller version go back on to our website because the really good news is we've got another load of Haynes manuals comes in so there is a stunning collector's grade book called I think it's called the old lady of no-man's land or whatever it is about the vickers machine gun huge great tome if you can find yourself a copy it's about 300 and saying something quid it is a lovely book I'm not denying that if you want to go if you like because machine guns and who doesn't like a Vickers machine gun so I would suggest here is a lovely book that Hanes have done on the Vickers and eight pounds ninety-nine so there's another one of those really cracking new Hanes so have a look because there's a other ones we've got in the German infantryman if you like these ships as well there's one there on battleship Bismarck Falklands War again another one of these ones and I know you know I'll keep saying it every time don't just believe me go and look them up on Amazon there's good reviews there and I know some of you have put reviews down don't be afraid to come back to us and also another newer tank one I think I have mentioned it once before fairly new AMX 30 the the French tank and again another different side of the story the French tank development story so that one there as well we've got in so some really good new Haynes manuals so if you're a book person like I know a number of you are those ones they are really worth having a look at and other things I was going to mention we've got some of the Coby these ones back in which were these you know as I was mentioning they're apparently someone said they are compatible will they go there's our Sherman there's a wonderful First World War British tank one there we go so a Mach one even got the wheels on the back there so those ones have come back in I know it's quite keen to I mentioned that and by the way again I always say if you're feeling guilty we also do other types of Tanks for the kids so friction powered there you go what is it look like something like a Pershing or something like that doesn't it all m26 there we go so we've got cheaper ones for the four so if you're feeling guilty buying yourself one it's another one of the Kobe's that we've got back in because I know some of you were trying to buy these before and they're now back in stock there's all Tiger 131 and it even has little figures from the tank museum workshop that are crewing it and doing things with it as it's running around at the Tank Museum so if you like your Kobe stuff as well there I mentioned about the model makers and this is another new one we've got in challenger 2 Theatre entry standard tes theater entry standard it's basically got all the bits and around age when the tank goes off on campaign so all the extra arm of the electronic countermeasure ones and everything else there this one rifled models but that's a newish one that's just come in I think it's a brand new to the UK as well so if you like your modern stuff Chinese your twos and everything else go online to the shop and have a look at that one it's even giving me a list now so I don't forget to say some of these things I love the waist this one's described as a Sherman tank key ring and dangly bag thing so all you ladies out there or men with a man bag that needed dangly thing for your handbag why not have a nice soft Sherman so that all if you happened to only Sherman tank there is your perfect key ring that you can put on throw the ball again for the dog don't forget Father's Day still coming up all these things ideas for fathers 8f get your Father's Day perfect tank socks still wear another advert for that we still have our lovely mugs tiger mugs there as well as the one I was showing you just in case as well back to I'm not sure it's going to fit many of you blokes heads but it'll certainly fit the kids heads and in case you get confused this is a toy helmet does not provide protection an exclamation mark so don't put it on by mistake before you go off and for a fight but yeah that's one of those two pounds for goodness sake put it in the in the old if you're doing an order we have as well so doing my sales bit frig Nate fridge magnets so metal ones different ones they're plant there's all different tanks and fridge magnets also tankfest if you're a tank fest fan metal wall plaque king tiger Sherman Fury and a Panther one and these are metal ones again so you can screw them up somewhere or outside the house or Tiger one three one one there as well and what would the other thing I was going to show you as well I've sort of think I've got through a lot of them I mentioned about books again because every now and again we were quite lucky we had a clear route from the army sometimes gets rid of stuff youngster go we were given boxes of some of the manuals I think if our dinner is going to come out or not but on the I do a little chat on the dingo and some of the manuals that go with that and one of the things if you ever want to see what an army manual is really like this is the user handbook for the Saracen the armored personnel carrier beautifully illustrated how you're supposed to do things how you check things what's supposed to go in where all that sort of stuff and that's an original manual there as they were issued to the the guys using it and we've got them for $4.99 in the shop and even if you don't have your Saracen if you just want to know what it's like you know what what this maintenance and the way they do it and these manuals you know there are they have to be clear because it's young soldiers who are not necessarily you know PhDs rocket science everything they're going to be using this to keep their vehicle going so it's written really clearly and by reading them and I've picked up that over time you find yourself learning not just I'm not an engineer about how our vehicle works what those things are done for what the army considers a priority you know what you're supposed to check on each first parade and everything how things are done you know so much information just by looking at one actually in service manual we have other manuals there for sale in the shop but that one I thought I'd bring because about $4.99 you know it's a really good price there as well and I said go and have a look at the new books we've got in I brought a couple in there this one's wonderful reprint of what you were supposed to do is the First World War soldiers from some of the literature at the time and that one's called Tommy's handbook some really nice ones with some lovely imagery of your first World War phone Western Front from the air with a number of key battles and interpretation of air photographs which again really interesting and bit of a theme on that one because looking down over the Normandy invasion and a lot of photographs from American National Archives and some new stuff this guy dug out of the d-day landings and from photo reconnaissance you know at a time if you look at the timing you can see now a lot of illustrations in there who was coming ashore when what's in the photographs you know and he's really piled that up and we've got in and again and really good prices so do go and have a look at those and my final piece today shamar's these are these things you put on your neck and everything else and where they were they were originally you know out in the Middle East the military picked up on them use them all the time and get one of those because on a chillier day so the winds picking up but we haven't learned you brain luckily at the moment and different color ones so you can pick up one of those and military issue as well the Army's still issues those as well and I'll get rid of Finnegan for a second get rid of that one there I'm doing my sales pitch challenger two we've got a t-shirt and we also have a chieftain rugby shirt so I know some of you were fed up with just seeing German tanks there all the time on the t-shirts and everything so again have a look we do have British ones there and I'll just drop that one on the floor and I keep saying the last one the last one and carrying on some of you may be of noticing ah we actually have a tank museum deck chair now with the tiger on so see what you think about that one Tiger one three one on the front if you fancy one of those again we now got those online if it had been a nice sunny day I would have sat there and fish my team one of those but I've got a horrible feeling it's getting a bit gray and the wind's getting up and any moment now the rains going to come along so I better draw to a close I've gone on as ever waffling on about so many different things fin come round here because know yes I know yes come on come around here and so sorry think give him a kick in there come around here fin come on up here up here up here he's just interested in his balls you can see but anyway he said thank you very much all the nice comments that people have been saying about fin and I'll try and make sure he's here in the future question and answers as well so we keep it going that way I'll finish and thank you so much as ever for supporting us long ramble long waffle go back to the shop online have a look at something keep the questions coming in and I haven't answered all these ones I've got some still to go as well I know they're still coming so and there's a few things I look up good news in the background we are planning to reopen the museum that's going on we have to fit in with government legislation we haven't gone an absolute 100% firm date yet but we're hoping it's going to be fingers crossed in July sometime we'll be letting you know obviously and keep an eye on the website because then of course some of these questions are asking you know when can I book an appointment when can I look at the archive we'll we'll try and keep you informed it won't be everything all at the same time but we'll be able to let you know if you can actually if it's worth coming to the museum for a visit what what what's going to be there so keep an eye on that website meanwhile we'll keep doing questions and answers and stay safe and thank you for me and from fee news down the front of it thanks a lot we are a charity here at the Tank Museum so if you can support us please do consider joining our patreon scheme or becoming a member of the Friends any donations will go directly towards the Tank Museum and its activities

Channel: The Tank Museum

Views: 61,836

Rating: 4.9559054 out of 5

Keywords: the tank museum, tank museum, bovington tank museum, david fletcher, david willey, military tank

Id: LRcN9Ciw7Hg

Length: 58min 51sec (3531 seconds)

Published: Tue Jun 16 2020