"Cosmopolis" director David Cronenberg in Studio Q

how are you I'm very well you on the other hand you're exhausted you're well angry I don't want to be should be exhausted and resentful it's the way I prefer my Center and right now at this very moment I'm suffering from separation anxiety because Rob and I have been on the road for three weeks in about five different countries and we're finished today I just said goodbye to him and I'm really feeling it I have yeah yeah we had no interest in him we just wanted you yeah well thank you for doing this because I know what's on the tail end of traversing the world to promote this film has been called an in one review I read a scathing critique of capitalism and the financial industry is it no I don't think so because I mean strangely it's very philosophical and it does make as you as we heard so I'm trenchant and I'm pretty accurate philosophical observations about the nature of capitalism as nature of let's say what turns out to be the Occupy Wall Street protest movement which is not really anti-capitalist at all I mean I think it's really Pro capitalist people saying we want more of the capitalist dream and you're not giving it to us it's not like they're communist and wanting to tear down the capitalist system so the the movies more complex than that no but you can and it is the story of one particular person but from that comes flowers observations about capitalism which could have come straight from Karl Marx actually and Marx is referenced in the movie yeah as in the book a Spectre is haunting the world the specter of capitalism well Marx said a specters haunting Europe the spectre of communism so it's kind of a I mean Don DeLillo wrote this novel about 10-12 years ago and it seems as though the world is just kind of catching up right now yeah yes it seems like a particularly prescient or or cogent film for the moment but but if if it's being called a scathing critique of capitalism and you say it is and does it bother you that it gets called that no no because I think you can draw that from it and it's accurate enough what I what I object to and I don't really object strenuously but I object to it being that's the label you know anti-capitalist movie it suggests that that is its purpose and that's what it does and in fact it does a whole lot of things as you know you want any complex work of art to do many things not just one thing it's not a propaganda movie let's put it down here Robert Pattinson who you're suffering from separation anxiety with you yeah but he plays this opaque emotionless almost robot like investment banker Eric pakery his demeanor creates a sense of foreboding throughout this film he's an interesting choice what were you looking for when you cast him well you're looking for a great actor you know that is a very difficult role because yes what you're saying is there at the beginning but he does change he does morph he does you do start to see all kinds of things as you as you as the movie progresses because his is his desire to get a haircut in and you know going from the East End of 47th Street to the West End is also a trip into his past he's really going to where he had his first haircut as a child you begin to realize as I said it has to do with his father and so on and he becomes much more vulnerable and human and childlike as the movie progresses as he as he sort of tries to escape from the life that he's created so I'm muck I'm looking for an actor who's got charisma because he's in absolutely every scene in the movie which is yes even for big stars that's pretty rare that that's the movie is structured that way he has to be there for very watchable and it's a lot of dialogue really complex some of it very technical and all of it quite funny too so you have to have an actor who gets all that and can do it I don't mean this in a pejorative way but they didn't did you know that he could do it mm-hmm you never know if the actor could do it until you've got him doing quite frankly but I had seen him in Little Ashes in which he plays a young Salvador Dali and that was a very extreme diff Spanish movie does it with a Spanish accent speaking English and I thought no this is a guy who's not afraid to do something really challenging and difficult he's not afraid to play what is it in Hollywood be considered could be considered an unsympathetic role which and a lot of actors you'd be surprised they really don't want to do that they they don't want to be seen in that kind of light and especially a contemporary matinee idol right that's right that's right so and and so I thought no I think he has the job so I really thought he had them until you do the movie you don't know the breadth of it and I really thought he gives I think he gives a fantastically subtle and beautifully modulated performance very different by the end of the movie to what he is at the beginning when you guys were at the Cannes Film Festival a couple weeks ago he said Robert Pattinson repeatedly said in fact he couldn't explain what this movie is about hmm were you consciously trying to keep him in the dark no because we don't know what the movies about I mean it in other words people you know if you're if you're sending an email you know what the email is about but art is not an email you know it's just like in the old days they say if I want to send a message I'll use Western Union that was the old joke in Hollywood in other words what you're deliver delivering is a kind of organic little universe I mean what is your life made what does my life mean well it doesn't have a meaning in the in the in the sense of a message or a-- so a movie is a life you're creating a life and it doesn't have a meaning in that the normal sense he we created Eric Packer based on the dialogue you know just have he's in a limo he somebody comes in the limo he talks so that person he's wearing a certain kind of clothes there's no meaning necessary the thing is a piece is true of any movie yeah I think it come on really oh yeah so because you don't know what Bad News Bears is about do you know yeah what well it's about a ragtag bunch of underdogs who got together and they have you know a drunk coach that and you know and now you're getting it a plot they come together and they and they win in the end it is underdogs yeah so this movie is about a billionaire who goes to get a haircut I mean on that level sure we all knew what what is it about but the thing what Rob is really talking about is there's a feeling an understand of a tacit understanding that you have to analyze a character psychoanalyze dude the Freudian routine so that you can get under the skin in bah-bah-bah but when you think about the way people really interact that's not the way you approach your own life and it's not the way you approach a character really I I so I was basically saying to rob you don't don't sweat it you don't exactly right you don't need to analyze this character but he goes he goes so far as to say he thought you intentionally wanted him a bit dazed he said David quickly realized that what he liked was when I didn't have any idea what I was doing I was sitting there completely lost and confused and he was like that's the one that's the tank yeah really it wasn't that I wanted him to be like that it says that I could see that that is was the way he was working you know when he didn't think too much and he it's really a question of an actor who has not yet learned to trust his intuition and it is instinct and I think that was his lack of confidence which he admitted to me I mean he basically was saying I don't know if I'm good enough for this movie I don't know if I can do this and I was saying no you are and just when he's good enough is when he's not overthinking that's exactly right yeah okay and and you know you find out with athletes too I mean speaking of you know the Toronto Blue Jays for example you get pitchers who say I'm just thinking too much I'm analyzing too much I'm outsmarting myself and I should just throw the ball you know back to the Bad News Bears that was what you're exactly right that was my reference and if I go back to that the review I was talking about then and whether it's a whether it's a scathing critique of capitalism or not it does there are references and whether it was prescient and and unexpected in terms of they occupy it so there are references that resonate with what's happening politically in the world you're not seen you've not been seen as a particularly Nicoll filmmaker why did this feel like the time uh it didn't actually because when I started to work on this movie three and a half years ago none of this stuff was happening you know and on the other hand I don't shy away from it I was certainly fascinated by Bernie Madoff for example you know and fascinated by the destruction of Nortel in Canada and and I'm completely ignorant and you know naive about economics and business and all of that stuff but you get an education just reading about these people and and recently about the London whale you know I don't mean the little baby whale that swam up the Thames I mean the investor and in London who's known as the London well because he's moves huge vast amounts of money and microscopically timed computer investments and so on and has earned and lost billions of dollars and has destroyed the economies of various countries with without being aware of it and that's kind of Eric Packer you know he he lives in a kind of an abstracted world of finance and has lost touch with with humaneness you you're shooting this film you were shooting at in Toronto and in New York right no we never shot a foot of film in New York he didn't shoot and you know so when so when occupy starts to happen did it give a the give the the the adventure of this film a sense of immediacy well it did and yet it didn't really affect what we were doing at all we stuck to the script and it was just kind of strange I mean you you you're shooting a scene of anti-capitalist protesting in the streets of New York City and then you go home and you read about exactly that happening in New York City with Occupy Wall Street or for the g20 here right absolutely and and then I get a text from Paul Giamatti who plays a major role in the film saying I can't believe it but somebody just pied Rupert Murdoch and we had just shot a scene where our character that played by Rob inspired by the pastry assassin you know so it it what were you making this happen or did we did we somehow more from shooting a fiction film to shooting a documentary already it was spooky and and yes it gave a kind of free song you know to what we were doing but in fact it didn't alter the shape of the film one iota let me ask you you talk to it about the haircut because Robert Pattinson's character Eric Packer is seeking haircut throughout this team for this film it does why does something as mundane as a haircut become so important to him on what is obviously his worst day of his life well we feel that Eric woke up this morning and something was different about his life about the universe and he was something was going on and it really had to do with him ultimately we begin to realize deciding to liberate himself from the prison that he's created for himself which seems like a wonderful thing you know because he's rich he's got a limo he's got an amazing apartment and and he somehow is starting to destroy all that during the course of this trip back to his past really I mean the haircut represents his childhood and where he was as a child now even an innocent perhaps not consciously being aware of it and he but he does anticipate it at a certain point hit one of his guys says why do you have to go there to get a haircut you know you can have anybody come to your limo he'll cut your hair on the limo or you can go to the office and he says Eric says a haircut is what it's calendars on the wall it's it's you know it's chairs in the floor it's like so in other words it's it's not just a haircut it's not the process of getting your hair cut it's really the texture of where you were as a child for him and he's seeking something visceral and even though he's got everything he sees he's seeking something that it's it to feel again her because you know he's created this limo which is very spectacular and it looks normal from the outside because like the London whale he wants to be anonymous he's not a celebrity nobody he has a bodyguard to protect literally to protect his body not to protect him from fans because he has no fans he's to be a financier successfully you of this type you have to be an I mean there are no pictures of the this guy called the London well you know your anonymity is part of your weaponry so at that so it is with Eric Packer but he's created this limo inside is very special he has a seat in the center of the back that's like a throne he is the king of this little Empire and he forces people to come to him in the limo for business but also for sex for information for philosophy for whatever for companionship such as as it is meanwhile though it's completely silent he talks about this he's what he calls Prue sting he's proof that referring to Marcel Proust who who wrote in a Cork lined room so that it would be silent and isolate him and he's isolated himself from the vibrancy of the city of the life of the city and so in this limbo you don't hear anything you barely see anything but at a certain point when he leaves the limo he's completely he doesn't know how to talk to his wife he says he doesn't know how normal people interact he says to her this is how people talk right I mean I'm doing a not bad job of imitating a real human sees the limo and and the ice is that a metaphor I mean for does it is it to suggest the super-rich have isolated themselves well or so in the past yeah I wouldn't say all of the super-rich but this particular kind of guy you know who lives this abstracted kind of interaction with with the world of finance and therefore with the world III don't think you want to make it too general a comment because it immediately falls apart it's not accurate it's accurate for Eric Packer and in that case I mean I showed my crew the movie Lebanon which takes place entirely and sought an Israeli tank and I showed them dust boat which takes place in two almost entirely inside a German submarine during the Second World War and in a way this sub does this limo is a submarine for him or it is a tank but it also then you begin to see as a prison you know it's it's it's a it's a coffin for him and he finally decides that he must break out of this well there's the physical isolation and there and there's also the emotional isolation that suggests again and I appreciate that you don't want to make these sweeping generalizations but that great great wealth has made him numb to the world around him do you do you think extreme wealth creates can create extreme desensitization I think it can well I don't think it's inevitable based on your own experience uh-huh I have not had the experience of extreme wealth I actually you know can't even afford to live where I live in Toronto so no I need to live oh I'm looking forward to that numbness of extreme wealth sorry you were in the middle of a real answer like what was it well I think that your answer was I don't you don't necessarily think that extreme wealth no I mean you look at Richard Branson for example he's very wealthy but he's really decided that he wants to interact with the world and he's I think he's doing it at a very interesting way center with Bill Gates you know he yes extreme wealth of Microsoft fortune but he's he's be able to say I have too much money and I therefore need to give it away and I'm gonna find ways to interact with the real world and help people so it's not inevitable that that that should happen but it's obviously possible Cosmopolis is of course based on the 2003 novel by Don DeLillo after he saw the film he said David did not move action out of the limousine for the cinematic sake of it he he brought scenes into the limousine just as you're saying you said the essence of cinema is a face speaking yeah what does that mean well if people like you know they sort of talk about theatricality in a movie and they usually mean that there's a lot of dialogue and people talking and and they level that as a sort of criticism I mean the end of this movie is twenty two minutes but of a scene between Paul Giamatti and Rob Cox talking yeah and it's two guys talking and you could easily say and some people have said this is theatrical and I said no it's essentially cinema first of all the thing that you photograph most as a director is a face talking so how can that not be cinema you know that's what I'm really trying to get away from the idea that cinema must be about vast sweeping spaces and stuff really if you think about what war about car crashes or things car crashes you want to see what the guys say after the car crash you know how do they react you know or what do they say before the car crash so the car crash itself is not enough to mean anything on a human level that's just to you know metal objects colliding that means nothing without the human content that comes before and after so even there it's the face is speaking that give it meaning and emotional resonance but I interestingly it's the two things hitting each other clashing without the faces speaking that are used to lure us into that I mean used as Laura masses into the into the Cineplex it's right not me not me I wouldn't do that do you lament in other words that the the the the the the diminishing of the idea of face speaking I'm thinking of you know battleship or transformers of stuff sure that we'll have a lot of robots be just stomping each other which can be amusing but you know yeah III it's just a corrective it's really it's more a reaction to criticisms or or not even criticism but critiques the idea of cinema we get away from what the idea of cinema when you think of the art cinema of the sixties you know with Truffaut and Fellini and the Kurosawa where there was some beautiful imagery there's no question but it was always the words you know as always the speaking it's the human content so and and I say yeah you could do that last twenty two minutes of Cosmopolis as a little play but it wouldn't be cinema because you wouldn't be doing close-ups you wouldn't be cutting you wouldn't have camera movement and that makes it simpler see if we go and I'm stuck on the limousine for a second if the limousine is is the bubble I mean literally the protecting the wealthy elite in this case Eric Packer from the masses that the 99% you might say or on the outside or at least a demonstrator what does it take what would it take to puncture that bubble well it has to come from the inside you know of course we have scenes of this limo being rocked yeah back and forth and and all of that but it's really it's a recognition I mean I think for example what's happening in Europe with the eurozone is pretty interesting because the the upside of it is that people are realizing that you cannot have one rich happy country and the rest of the world being poor and unhappy we are all in it together the eurozone is really showing that it's proving that and and and it started as a pretty optimistic thing I mean as it been pointed out these countries that were killing each other during the first and second world war you know the matura animosity and so on and so now they're all together in this one problem they have to solve they have to interact with each other they have to collaborate that ice actually is kind of nice you know it money is something we've invented I mean money is technology it's a human technology it doesn't exist in nature it's not like the tsunami that hit Japan this this financial crisis is a human thing and it means that we have to a human solution has to be found so that's a good part yeah it doesn't feel like a human thing but it is it's like it's out of its out of our human control well it but it is something that we've created I mean you don't get animals with an economic crisis let me talked about Robert Pattinson the strength of the courage of taking on a role where he's not necessarily likable a critic from Variety said and I'm quoting Cosmopolis probes the soullessness of the 1% with the cinematic equivalent of latex gloves you know many of these characters are not particularly likable in the hollywood sense of the world does it or does it matter to you do you care whether the audience likes the characters no no actually Rob found on the internet a review of the movie that said that the movie was aggressively unlovable and I loved that I thought that was great I said yes yes we are that's what we are yeah the fear the desire to be loved is really death when it comes to art you know I mean because you get people pathetically desperate to be loved to be liked to be likable you can't say anything true and trenchant and and cutting and interesting and profound if that's really all you're after is is love I'm talking about in art not in life and so when is the creator though as the creator you're talking about now away you don't have to know and and but what but what about the characters I mean isn't the orthodoxy to say we we have to see something in the characters that we is redeemable for us to want together I don't think redeemable is you know this is not coupons at the grocery store no redeemable is not the issue what is it interesting as provocative Ness intrigue you know if you are intrigued by the character if you find them fascinating if you find what they do illuminating if you find it provokes you that's great it doesn't none of that equals likable or lovable you know I mean there could be that too but the chances are slim that they will all go together so I say well you you you can't take your eyes off Rob in this movie I don't think and you can't not listen to what he's saying and the people who come in are all you have to remember that it's funny too I mean the movie is very funny as is the book it's a very dark strange humor but it's really humor and the audiences do get it even when it's translated and can for example so so it's it it it does make you question what is art what is entertainment you know and what do you look for in a movie and and some audiences who only look for something you know light and fluffy and feel good yeah well this is not the movie for them for sure but if you're looking for something more then immediately you're not talking about likeable you're talking about watchable more than likeable if just to extend the go to the logical extension of this or the extreme extension of it are you saying if there was a film that was only because we always get the we that we identify the bad guys by contrasting them with the good guys in the film right so if there's a film of only bad guys mm that's still an appealing film to us absolutely I mean you know actors love playing villains there's a reason for that you very often the the hero is boring and the villain is interesting right but we have a hero yeah but what about if you don't it's even better that means West Side Story without Tony you get him out of there yeah exactly it's even more pure potentially you know potentially I mean it really depends on the details of now of what it is you're watching cuz you can only go so far with the generalizations is it true that you you only took six days to write the screenplay for this yes and and the dialogue I mean it certainly as a poetic ring to it at times which I assume came in part from Don DeLillo's book as well do you how do you find the balance between dialogue that sounds natural but also has the Flair of a larger than life well that's what I love about DeLillo's dialogue and he has that tone and all of his writing and it's really interesting that no movie had been made of his work before Cosmopolis I mean many of his books were optioned and they never got made because they're difficult but that's what I love I mean I think of it as Pinterest you know like Harold Pinter people can recognize his dialogue from a mile away it's it is the way English people speak of a certain class but it's also very stylized and the the punctuation is really crucial when you're doing a Pinter play and I feel that DeLillo's work is the same and I really I really wanted to hear it spoken when I read Cosmopolis I said this dialogue I would be great to take it off the page and actually hear wonderful actors speaking it I wouldn't change a thing and in fact it's exactly what it is in the book I haven't changed and if somebody is to say well that's not the way people talk but it is the way some people talk it is it does have the reality of American speech and yet it's very stylized at the same time and I think the two things going on together and and sort of morphing back and forth between the two is what makes it intriguing and it's really hard not to listen to it and it does have a wonderful poetic thing I mean Rob said as soon as he started to speak it was so easy to speak that it even though it's not strictly speaking realistic it was it just flowed beautifully some really riveting scenes with that kind of dialogue between Robert and his wife in the film Sarah Gadon yeah you can't take your eyes off them there there is a line in this film everyone lives thinking they can become rich in the next 20 seconds yes you think that's always been the case in America or is that particularly case now I think it always has been the case in America that was always the American dream I mean yeah and and and the fact that that that accelerated you can become rich in the next 20 seconds well 20 seconds lately with with computerized investment you see 40 seconds took 20 hours in the but but that always was the American dream and you see in in places like England for example that was never the case because if you were not of a certain class you were not gonna get rich period that was it I mean there was a class structure and and America was the dream in America was that the class structure had been destroyed and dissolved and therefore anybody could be rich and in America to be rich was to be elite that was the aristocracy it was a an aristocracy of money and that meant it was available to everybody but in England of course if you were not born to the aristocracy there was no way you could get there using over do you think people still believe that in America um I or in North America yeah I won't include our song yes I actually think it they do because they they see stories about you know Facebook and they see you know the the the I mean about somebody becoming a billionaire in in his 20s just playing with his computer you know so I actually do think that they still believe that somewhere in America of course there are levels you know there are there are levels in which it was never believed you know there was a there's always been a hopelessness in a certain segment of society in America hopelessness and yet even there you know suddenly somebody from a ghetto breaks through as a rap artist and suddenly he's you know he's got his gold-plated limo it's always such a pleasure to talk to you before I let you go let me ask you a little bit about kin and your family because this was a special year for you again you and your son Brandon became the first father-son duo to simultaneously screen films there during the festival you were there with Brandon we we we know that famously to a certain extent at this point at this point already because of the media reports and images that were coming out of cancer but your daughter kiss I was gonna say there's a family affair what was that like free fantastic I mean a dream come true and it made it you know sort of the Cronenberg family vacation and gown or something it was amazing to see Brandon go up the red carpet and and and and suffer and also be exhilarated by the same things that I've experienced I didn't really expect that ever was it something you had hoped for you know I really just hope that you know my kids would would find something that satisfied them and and entertained them and intrigued I mean you know you bran was not he didn't seem to be that interested in film he was always interested in art writing and so on and then suddenly he was admitting to himself that actually he did like film you know I think it was a riously a reaction against people who thought well you you know you will follow your father's footsteps would you were you know as he's establishing an identity identity of his own as a filmmaker do you worry about overshadowing him no actually not at all I mean he's really he's got his own reel his sensibility and it's very strong he's very funny and and it turns out what's lovely and unexpected is that he's working with a lot of the people that I'm working with not just actors like Sarah gotten but my my production designer the guy who did the production design of Cosmopolis also did his film anti-viral and Deirdre Bowen who does my casting has done his casting and they can all tell me what he's like as a director cuz I don't have that he's I don't know what he's like I said good and it turns out he's really really good you know so it's the inevitable cameo at some point you know I mean frankly I'm more likely to ask him to act in my film because he just did you know he's just done a couple of interviews and he's really funny you know what I'm thinking he could be he could be an actor if this directing thing doesn't work out you know it's a really it's a really compelling film and it really is different from anything else that's out there particularly in contemporary mainstream cinema you've said it's it is difficult today to get a film like this made this was a particularly hard film to get made why is that um it just partly it is because of the economic crisis I guess that's ironic really a lot of money sources have disappeared and of course there are businesses of every kind that complain about that they know you can't you can no longer get your you know your dry cleaning business financed and have a line of credit because everybody's so scared and worried and nervous and all of that and that affects the film business which I think of us as being like the aunt fib ian's of the world you know that we have such thin skin that were really really sensitive to any change that happens and if there's toxic toxicity in the environment we are the first to experience it you know in the film business because it's it's not a necessary business if you know what I mean so a lot of sources of money have dried up distribution for independent films has dried up there are very few places to go to get it wasn't the content of this film in particular those no I don't think you're gonna make an anti-capitalist film but you know you a really good capitalist will love an anti-capitalist film if it'll make money so I'll say I started this with in the introduction saying it's been a robust a year for you a prolific will be another word I mean two major films within a year you seem like you're busier than ever what are you reaching for as a filmmaker now mmm it's it hasn't changed really I just things that are entertaining amusing interesting provocative I still love the the the joy of creation I mean people you know talk about the difficulties of this and that but when we're alone on the film set and we're making the movie it's so much fun I mean is this great fun when you've got you know the people you love to work with and you're creating some and you're killing yourself laughing and you're having a great time and that's the way I like it on the film set and with the actors that I had in the crew that I had for Cosmopolis that is that's exactly what it was I mean with with Paul Giamatti and and Rob and me and my crew I mean just out doing that last 22 minutes of the film on one set with those guys was hisses it was great fun it was joyful you know it was wonderful there's nothing more gratifying than a great artist who still loves making his art yeah well exactly I mean there's no at that moment you have you are you have defended yourself against despair despondency depression suddenly you were just alive and you're really excited and you're really happy it's great to talk to you again great to talk to you Congrats on the film

Channel: q on cbc

Views: 24,331

Rating: 4.9146342 out of 5

Keywords: cbc, jian, ghomeshi, cosmopolis, Robert, Pattinson

Id: hNdsfoRspfI

Length: 33min 57sec (2037 seconds)

Published: Mon Nov 05 2012