>> JONATHAN CHAT, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >>> THE POLITICAL ARM OF THE NETWORK BACKED BY BILLIONAIRE CHARLES KOCH IS RELEAING ADS AIMED AT DONALD TRUMP, ARGUING IF TRUMP BECOMES THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE NEXT YEAR, BIDEN WILL ULTIMATELY BE REELECTED. TAKE A LOOK. >> TRUMP SAYS THIS TIME HE'LL BEAT BIDEN, BUT 60% OF VOTERS DON'T WANT TRUMP TO BE PRESIDENT. THE ONLY WAY BIDEN WINS IS IF WE NOMINATE TRUMP AGAIN. THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE READY TO MOVE ON. >> WHAT'S BIDEN'S SECRET WEAPON? DONALD TRUMP IS THE GOP NOMINEE. THEN BIDEN WINS THE WHITE HOUSE AND GETS THE HOUSE AND SENATE TOO. IT'S EASY TO SEE WHY DEMOCRATS WANT TRUMP. IT'S BIDEN'S TICKET TO REELECTION. >> THAT'S WHAT'S SO PREPOSTEROUS WHEN YOU START HEARING TRUMP APOLOGISTS GOING, OH, HE'S TRYING TO TAKE OUT DONALD TRUMP. NO, NO. JOE BIDEN KNOWS HIS BEST SHOT OF REELECTION IS RUNNING AGAINST DONALD TRUMP. >> POLITICAL ADVISORS I SPEAK TO SAY OUR BEST CHANCE AT A SECOND TERM IS IF DONALD TRUMP IS THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE. THEY'LL SAY THEY CAN BEAT ANY REPUBLICAN, BUT THEY UNDERSTAND THE RACE IS VERY VERY DIFFERENT IF IT'S A FRESH FACE. IF IT'S DONALD TRUMP AND THEY CAN REHASH HIS RECORD, HIS ABHORRENT BEHAVIOR SINCE LEAVING OFFICE AND ALL OF THESE CRIMINAL MATTERS, THEY FEEL GREAT THINK ABOUT DYNAMIC. THAT'S THE RACE THEY WANT TO HAVE. >> IT REALLY TAPS INTO SOMETHING YOU HEAR FROM REPUBLICANS, EVEN REPUBLICANS WHO VOTED FOR DONALD TRUMP TWICE, I'M TIRED, LET'S MOVE ON. >> IT IS EXHAUSTING. >> YOU KNOW WHO I BET IS ALSO TIRED? JOE BIDEN. HE BEARS WITNESS EVERY SINGLE DAY TO THE DAMAGE THIS GUY HAS DONE TO THIS COUNTRY. SURE, HE'S THE BEST GUY THAT JOE BIDEN COULD FACE TO WIN, NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT. BUT I THINK HE LIVES WITH THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE DAMAGE THAT ONE MAN, DONALD TRUMP, HAS DONE TO AMERICA. >> DO YOU GET A SENSE AMONG THE REPUBLICAN BASE THAT IS STANDING BY DONALD TRUMP ON THESE ISSUES, DO YOU GET A SENSE FROM SOME OF THEM THAT THEY ARE READY TO MOVE ON? THEY WANT TO WIN AND THEY SEE DONALD TRUMP AS AN OBSTACLE TO WINNING? >> IT'S MIXED. SOME FEEL THE MORE INDICTMENTS THERE ARE, THE MORE IT IS PROOF THAT THE GOVERNMENT AND THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS OUT TO GET TRUMP. THEY'VE ALMOST HARDENED THEIR SUPPORT OF HIM. SOME OF THEM DO SAY, YES, THIS IS EXHAUSTING AND IF WE SEE ANOTHER INDICTMENT FROM GEORGIA, IT MAY PUSH THEM OVER THE EDGE. EVERYBODY KIND OF AGREES THERE'S EXHAUSTION. I THINK WE SHOULDN'T FORGET THE MORE MISINFORMATION THAT'S PUT OUT THERE, YOU DON'T HAVE TO SCRATCH VERY FAR INTO THE INTERNET TO SEE THE THINGS PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT. >> THOSE KOCH ADS ARE THE ENTIRE RATIONALE FOR RON DeSANTIS' CAMPAIGN. JOHN CORNYN OF TEXAS, A VERY CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN, SAID YESTERDAY WHEN ASKED ABOUT THIS INDICTMENT, QUOTE, IT'S NOT GOOD. HE SAID, I THINK TRUMP'S UNWILLINGNESS TO APPEAL TO VOTERS BEYOND HIS BASE MAKES IT UNLIKELY HE COULD WIN A GENERAL ELECTION. >> IN 2016 WE WENT OUT WITH SOMEBODY IN THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION HALFWAY THROUGH THE SUMMER OF 2016. EVERYBODY WAS TALKING ABOUT TRUMP AT EVERY TABLE AROUND US, WHETHER IT WAS GOOD, WHETHER IT WAS BAD. I NOTICED SOMETHING FASCINATING ON FRIDAY NIGHT WHEN WE WERE OUT EATING WITH FRIENDS. MOST OF THEM OBVIOUSLY NOT BIG FANS OF DONALD TRUMP. WE WERE SITTING AROUND AND WE TALKED ABOUT NEW YORK, HOW BEAUTIFUL NEW YORK WAS. WE TALKED ABOUT BASEBALL. IT WAS THE NIGHT BEFORE THE BELMONT. SO WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE BELMONT. HEY, DID YOU KNOW IT WAS 50 YEARS AGO TODAY THAT SECRETARIAT WON? WE WERE ABOUT AN HOUR THROUGH DINNER AND I THOUGHT TO MYSELF, ON THE DAY DONALD TRUMP'S INDICTED, NOBODY'S TALKING ABOUT HIM. THEY WOULD RATHER TALK ABOUT A HORSE THAT WON THE TRIPLE CROWN 50 YEARS AGO AND TALK ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE BUT AN EX-PRESIDENT WHO JUST GOT INDICTED. >> THAT'S A CHANGE. >> THIS IS SHOWING THAT AMERICANS ARE LIKE READY TO MOVE ON WITH THEIR LIVES. >> TIRED. >> THERE'S NO SURPRISE LEFT IN DONALD TRUMP, NO MATTER WHAT HE DOES, NO MATTER WHAT HE SAYS, IT'S NO LONGER SURPRISING. HE HAS REMOVED THAT FROM THE WAY WE EXIST EACH AND EVERY DAY. I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN HEARING FROM YOU, KATTY, WHETHER OR NOT WHEN YOU INTERVIEW ALL OF THESE SUPPOSED REPUBLICANS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE STORY, WHETHER FOR TRUMP OR TIRED OR TRUMP, DOES ANYBODY EVER RAISE THE ISSUE THAT WE SPEAK TO MANY TIMES DURING THE COURSE OF EACH DAY, THAT THIS IS A TERRIBLY DAMAGED PSYCHOLOGICAL INDIVIDUAL, DONALD TRUMP, TERRIBLY DAMAGED? DOES ANYBODY EVER ALLUDE TO THAT, RAISE IT, MENTION IT? >> NO. THEY FEEL THAT HE HAS BEEN VICTIMIZED AND EVERY SINGLE LAWSUIT THEY PUT IN THE SAME BRACKET, YOU SEE? THAT IS FURTHER EVIDENCE. IT'S NOT TO DO WITH THE FACTS OF THAT CASE. IT'S TO DO WITH THE MOUNTING ACCUMULATED EVIDENCE THAT THE STATE IS OUT TO GET DONALD TRUMP. >> I HEAR FROM EVANGELICALS SAYING HE'S NOT A GOOD MAN, WE WOULDN'T INVITE HIM TO OUR HOUSE, BUT HE FIGHTS FOR US, HE FIGHTS FOR THE THINGS THAT WE WANT. SO THAT'S HOW SOME PEOPLE HAVE JUSTIFIED IT IN THE PAST. WHEN IT'S A ZERO SUM GAME, WHEN IT'S A FIGHT BETWEEN DONALD TRUMP AND JOE BIDEN OR DONALD TRUMP AND BERNIE SANDERS, WHEN THEY PLAY THAT GAME, WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO DO, VOTE FOR AOC AND A MARTIAN? WELL, NO. IT'S JOE BIDEN. HE'S FROM DELAWARE. IT'S DONALD TRUMP/RON DeSANTIS, DONALD TRUMP/TIM SCOTT. SUDDENLY IT TAKES AWAY A LOT OF THAT ARGUMENT. >> IF IT ENDS UP BEING JOE BIDEN VERSUS DONALD TRUMP AGAIN, IT'S A FAIRLY EASY THING TO FRAME YOU HAVE FROM THE DEMOCRATIC PERSPECTIVE. BASICALLY IT'S, HERE'S A GOOD MAN, HERE'S A BAD MAN. YOU DECIDE. WE'LL TELL YOU WHY HE'S GOOD AND WE'LL TELL YOU WHY HE'S BAD, BECAUSE YOU ALREADY KNOW HE'S BAD. >> THE THINGS WE'RE HEARING FROM THE HARD RIGHT TRUMP BASE JUST DOESN'T GET OUT THERE. AS I'VE SAID A MILLION TIMES, IF HUNTER BIDEN IS INDICTED, PEOPLE GO, OH, THAT'S A SHAME. SOMEBODY ELSE GETS INDICTED, OKAY, WELL, THAT'S A SHAME. >> AND THIS IS A SHAME. >> THIS WHOLE THING ABOUT THE BIDEN CRIME FAMILY AND PUTTING THEM ON BARGES OUTSIDE OF GITMO, ALL OF THIS STUFF THAT THEY DO AND SAY ABOUT JOE BIDEN AND EVERYTHING ELSE, AGAIN, THAT'S NOT WHERE THE SWING VOTERS ARE. THE SWING VOTERS ARE ASKING IS HE TOO OLD, CAN HE CARRY ON FOR FOUR MORE YEARS. THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. THEY'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT HUNTER BIDEN'S LAPTOP. AGAIN, IF IT'S RON DeSANTIS -- HOW OLD IS RON DeSANTIS, 48? >> IT'S DEE-SANTIS. >> WHAT'S DONALD TRUMP, 77? NOT ACTUALLY THE FITTEST GUY IN THE WORLD, DONALD TRUMP AT 77, 78. KIND OF HARD FOR HIM TO MAKE THAT ARGUMENT, UNLIKE RON DeSANTIS. >> POLLING SUGGESTS THE PRESIDENT'S AGE IS AN ISSUE. THAT'S PART OF WHY THE WHITE HOUSE IS HOPING TRUMP IS THEIR OPPONENT. THEY KNOW THAT NEGATES THE AGE ARGUMENT. THE THINGS REPUBLICANS ARE TALKING ABOUT, THE HUNTER BIDEN STUFF BEING THE BEST EXAMPLE, IT'S TO A HARDENING, BUT SHRINKING BASE OF SUPPORT. THEY'RE NOT GAINING ANY VOTERS. THEY'RE PREACHING TO THE CHOIR. IN SOME CASES THE JANUARY 6TH CONVICT CHOIR. THEY'RE PRETTY SURE THEY'RE FOR TRUMP ALREADY. THIS IS A MOMENT WHERE INDEPENDENTS AND SWING VOTERS SHOW THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THAT STUFFER. IT'S HARD TO IMAGINE ANY SCENARIO WHERE
