- Eric July, welcome
to "Dad Saves America". - Appreciate you having me big time. - Alright, we got lots to talk about. - Yeah. - So first of all, lemme set the stage. So you are a musician, you are a Marvel, you are soon to be Marvel mutilating, medium mogul in the making. - I'll take it. - You're a political social commentator and a creative entrepreneur. At the end of the day,
you are an entrepreneur. You are creating new things for people and try to meet a customer. - Yeah. - So let's just start with why, as someone who cares about
ideas, why does culture and why do comic books
in particular matter? Why put that energy, that
passion into comic books? - Well, I mean, I do feel
like comics in particular, especially, in the West
or more direct in America. I mean, you think of characters
like a Superman, a Batman. These characters transcend comics. You actually look at them maybe like a part of American culture, part of fabric of American culture, right? So they've always been
this important thing. And even now, I mean granted, it's trending in a way that people are, the youngsters trending more to some of the Japanese stuff with manga. But it's a comic at the
end of the day, right? - [John] Yeah. - And it's very, very, very influential. So for me, it was like looking at me being a lot like a comic book lifer, seeing some of the problems
that plagued the industry both creatively and economically. And I saw it as an opportunity, right? It wasn't my first rodeo
doing creative stuff, as you mentioned, me being in a band, and multiple bands, and doing that. So I wasn't going into
it completely blind. - [John] Yeah. - But of course, I would've never thought that this was gonna make $3.7 million. - [John] Amazing. - That wasn't, I wanna be clear here, I didn't even think that
was a possible thing, but it goes to show
just how this resonated with so many people. And again, I just wanted to,
I put a lot of money into it, a lot of effort into it. And again, it was about trying
to be part of the solution because I think it definitely,
in a commentary space, too often we get tied
up into always talking about problems, right? - [John] Yeah. - It's like, hey, here's
an issue, here's an issue, there's a problem, there's something that needs
some sort of resolution, but we don't actually come up with it. Right? So for me, I wanted to
make sure that, okay, now that I have especially
the financial capacity to do this, alright, it's one thing for me to be crapping on YouTube all day long. It's another for me to put
my money where my mouth is and actually be a part of the solution. So that was what kind of
conceptualized the Rippaverse and everything that I'm doing
kind of with comic books, 'cause I am a solution
solution-oriented man. And I do believe that God
did put me on this earth to create, and I say that all the time because you look at my bands and all that. - [John] Yeah. - Anytime I'm in a creative spot, we have seen the most success. I've individually seen the most success. So I think that's what I'm
put on this world to do, especially when it comes
to influencing culture. It's about doing stuff in the arts and being out there creating. - You are so right. I mean, I'm not as big of a comic book guy as my best friend Josh,
who when we moved down here to Austin, he had 15 long boxes with him. - [Eric] Nice, nice, nice. - But I love graphic novels. And when I was a kid, I actually wanted to be a Disney animator. So I would do comic books
of the Disney characters, it's nineties, it was the
Disney's go to Baghdad, and go to war, and all
kinds of weird stuff. - [Eric] Yeah. - Weird little young
Republican Disney want to be. - [Eric] Yeah. - But I think that that notion that this is our mythology now, these are the archetypal stories that define what it means to be a hero. What does that mean for you to be a hero? Because that's such a central, I mean your central character is a reluctant return to heroism, right? - [Eric] Right, right. - So what's that mean? - Yeah. I mean, I look at heroism and I mean, you talk about
that being so much a part of, again, American culture,
and what people deem as the hero's journey, and it's what makes these
characters sort of relatable, right, to each and every individual. It doesn't matter kind of what background and all that stuff. It's because you get to see these people, even if they're powerful. You take Isom, we can do
all these these cool things because his strong. Right? Obviously, I can't do any of that stuff. But there's an ability to resonate. Especially, when you talk about that trait where it is some reluctancy, right? - [John] Yeah. - Everybody probably has
experienced that in some capacity, right? Where there is something
that they need to do or you talk about with "Isom
#2" and what made Isom retire in the first place and know he how that kind
of almost traumatized him to the point to where he was
like, I want to put the suit up and now we're dealing
with this journey, right of him trying to get back
into that sort of position. And I think that's why
these stories matter so much and why the appeal is so great, and has been historically,
again, from different, you can find people of
completely different opposite backgrounds that will be a
fan of a character Superman or a character a Batman or Spider-Man, especially Spider-Man for that matter. When you talk about that journey, people talk about Peter Parker
getting beat up all the time. Right? That's what we had to experience that. We had to see that all the time. But I think that has a
lot to do with the growth because it's kind of reminding people that there is light at
the end of the tunnel. There is another side to get to and you do what you need
to do to keep going. And people love to see that. And I think that's why we've seen this in recent comic books
that have been produced where you get these perfect characters and they don't resonate. - The Mary Sue's. - The Mary Sue's, right? They don't resonate with
any anybody, female or male. It doesn't resonate with anybody. And that's because that hero's journey just simply is not there. It's such a core part to
storytelling in general but especially, with American comic books. - I think about that as one of the things that made Marvel so powerful relative to, and the struggle with
DC because it was like, you've got Superman who's like- - Can do everything. - A god on earth. You've gotta invent,
oh, let's come up with, we gotta find some way for him to not just always be winning. But Peter Parker being that, I think he's one of the earliest
of Stan Lee's creations. - Yeah. - "Spider-Man". - It was in the sixties. Yeah. So it was, yeah, '63 was that, yeah. So that would've been
one of the first bits. So one of the first ones I
think that people caught on with was "Fantastic Four". But yeah, I mean obviously, you can make the argument
the most prominent Marvel character, right? Would be Spider-Man, I think if you really think about it. And then you talk about the most prominent character in comic books. But yeah, it's, Marvel's
approach was like, hey, it's the world outside kind
of situation which made it, I think it especially relatable, right? And in comparison to DC, not to say the DC was not ever relatable or anything this, but you had a lot of reluctancy,
you wanna talk about that with some of these heroes
who were God-like, right? Where you also had on the
other side with Marvel, it was more so people kind of aspiring to be these great things. So again, that core tenet
of just storytelling and the hero's journey
is just so very vital to this part of the industry. And when I was coming up with "Isom" and I was coming up even with
the "Alpha Core" members, I wanted to make sure I
didn't make that mistake. I didn't want people to
look at these characters and feel like they can do everything. And there is zero struggle because nobody can relate to that. It's not gonna have any
sort of staying power then. But you know, you read "Isom #1", you wanna read "Isom #2" because at the end of it he's like, okay, I'm gonna put this suit back on. Now you like, okay, what's next? Why did he hang it up in the first place? - It's the classic reveal at
the end of the first quarter. - Yeah. - He's been in a red hoodie
and now the suit's on. - [Eric] Yes. - It's like, okay, now we're
getting down to business. - [Eric] Exactly. Exactly. - Growing up, Marvel or DC, who were your favorite characters? - All right. So I will tell you
this, I never had really a one of the other, in terms
of those two companies, but both of my favorite
characters were part of DC, starting with Flash, Wally
was my Flash growing up. It's funny having Mike Baron here who was writing the first
series by Wally West. It's crazy how things
have come full circle now that I got guys here. They're like, I grew
up on your books, man. But that's kind of crazy to think about. But Flash was my favorite character, namely because I was an athlete, right. Did it all the way through
the collegiate level and being a sprinter. So, when you're young, I think
you often gravitate towards, hey, who's this character
that has this cool power that I really like? - [John] Yeah. - Now as I age, you
start to get really more into some of the stories and stuff. That's when Batman became
my favorite character. I think you see that trend
that with a lot of people where, especially in comic books, where when we're young it's Flash, right? It's like literal Flash and who can do the coolest thing. You are like, oh, I really this character. But even if you go and
reread some of that stuff that you read as a youngster, having the experience, it's a
different experience, right. Digesting that information. And again, that's why I
think Batman just story, just kind of resonated with
me a lot more as an adult. - And the Dark Knight
modernization of Batman in particular was just,
I mean that's I guess, in a way what we grew up with. Not the whizzbang. I remember watching the smash and crash. - Yeah. - On "Nick at Nite". - Yeah. - Who is it Steve Miller? Am I misremembering that, the
creator of the new Batman's? - [Eric] Oh yeah. I don't know. - It's a guy that used
to, we used to encounter in the bars in New York City,
'cause he'd be there drunk. - Oh Yeah, yeah. But Batman, again, full-circle, Chuck Dixon being a big
part of Detective Comics in the nineties, him and Graham Nolan obviously, the creator of Bain. And having those guys here at the, or Chuck here at the
Rippaverse has been some crazy, but also look at that pocket of nineties and yeah, there may have been
some economic turmoil there. People remember in the late nineties, Marvel almost went bankrupt. That almost happened. - [John] Yeah. - But I think why that
still that next generation going into the, especially
in the two thousands was able to hold was because
there was so much good media that was comic book-based. You think about the nineties,
people often say that Batman, the animated series is the
Definitive Batman, right? - I think that's right? - [Eric] Yeah. - And it's just one of
the best TV shows ever. - Yeah. I would've made that argument as well, the definitive Batman. But you also had, during that era X-Men the animated series, right? That was coming out during
that same block of time when I was growing up. You had Spider-Man, obviously. And then they even were
doing some weird stuff like Silver Surfer and all that. But it was just such a
good time to be into comics because pretty much whatever
way that you looked, there was an adaptation there. - It's funny 'cause it was in the movies we had this early, almost false start. We had the X-Men movies,
which started off good and then started to trail off. - [Eric] Yeah. - And then we had the Sam
Raimi Spider-Man movies, which again were good. And then started to get
progressively not so good. And then you went through the lull before Iron Man comes out. - Yep, yep. It was a true lull and then
that got people back into it. Unfortunately, we didn't
see a big boom in the sales. I have my own opinions
on why that happened despite that Marvel cinematic universe getting as big as it did. And unfortunately, it
didn't seem they were able to translate a lot of that stuff
into new comic book readers or buyers or what have you. As massive as it might have been. It's kind of a crazy phenomenon. I don't think we've ever
seen that kind of anywhere where it's something that massive and it's like the books almost
would, there was no increase. There was no increase in sales with these characters and their books. I don't think we've ever
seen anything like that. - So you've obviously, you've
been vocal about trying to do things differently, and
you said both economically, but culturally, so what's gone wrong? Now, I mean, it's 2024, there's tons of people
talking constantly about this, Nerdrotic and The Critical Drinker, just as far as YouTubers. - [Eric] Yeah, no. - The M-She-U's, there's all kinds of, I watch all these mostly guys. - [Eric] Yeah. - It's all great stuff. Yourself included. - [Eric] Yeah. - But how do you think about, what's your story about what's gone wrong that you're trying to fix? - I know that some people paint me as, they put me in that light of, hey, it's just woke stuff, yada yada yada. And people that have
listened to me over the years know that my complaints
extend well beyond that. Is that part of it? Yeah, you'd be fooled not
to concede at least that, especially going with
an all different Marvel, which was in the mid 2010s. And that's when a lot of
this stuff seemed to pop off. And then a certain thing happened in 2016 and everybody just lost their mind. Unfortunately, in entertainment. - A certain comic book-like
character entered the scene. - Yeah, yeah, exactly. Right. And then it just,
everybody lost their mind. - Is he a super villain or a superhero? - Yeah. Depending on what way
that you look at him. And everybody lost their minds then. And it started to bleed into the content. - [John] Yeah. - But I look at the creative stuff and I had even simple issues and people that read our code of ethics know where I'm going with
this, timeline problems. The fact that if you are,
let's say you did watch a movie and it was like, oh,
I liked Batman, right? I saw this recent movie,
"Dark Knight", whatever. And I like the character. I want to get into the comic books and then I have to use
basically a whiteboard that I have to go across this entire room to try to explain to you
where you should start. Because there's six number ones, right? You can't just start at number one. 'Cause there's number one
named "Rebirth" in 2016, there was a number one
Batman number one in 2011, when there was New 52. And then before that, but
Batman also his series is different from "Detective Comics", which is his own series. And then there's this other
Batman running around, see, I have to do all of this stuff. - Yeah. - And it's impossible
for something to keep. - Even before Multiverse went full crazy. - Yeah, went crazy with
DC, I'd make the argument that DC was onto
something in the eighties, when "Crisis on Infinite Earths" happened, when they were trying to fix that problem. The timeline issue like, hey, we got all of these different versions of these different characters, how about we just collapse
the universe into one. And now they're all, all
these multiverses into one. And now, there's just one version of the character running around. And then they went back
on that, unfortunately. But no, that was some of the problems that I saw in terms of creatively with these issues in comic books. It just doesn't make for a
very entertaining experience, especially when you don't
have anywhere to go with it. So you have that bit of it. But the culture part, I think
our approach is different because you read "Isom", it's not anarcho-capitalism, the book. Right? That's not what I'm doing. - There is one little hint that I'll bring up of
your political philosophy. It's not a political book. I read it. I hadn't read it until
prepping for you to come in. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Let me find it. Let me find it. One sec. - Yeah, yeah. - Where is it at? There's a great picture of you. It's a little breather moment with little taxation is theft. - Oh yeah. That's toward the end. That's toward the end. - It is towards the end. Okay. - With my hat on. Yeah, I remember that. - It's great. It's a great, here we go. - [Eric] There we go. - Yeah. Here. I'll put this up for the camera. - [Eric] With my hat, yeah, yeah. - So can we get that on the camera. Get it in that close up. Yeah. It's subtle. - Yeah, very. But you get what it is I'm saying, it's like I'm not gonna
let what my politics are try to beat you over
the head with the story. It has nothing to do with the story or anything with what
it is that we're doing. So when I talk about
the changes culturally, I would point to something
what happened with, for the people that don't know, Carolyn, she was a community manager
for Limited Run Games. Right. And she was wrongfully, I'd argue, let go from her job because some freak, I'm gonna call it what the person is who doesn't even work for the company, went to try to dig on some things and found out she was following people that are maybe on a different side of the political spectrum than her. And they let her go because of the hoorah that was made online
by this one individual. - Oh, I remember this. - Right. - Was this aftermath of Gamergate or am I misremembering this? Was this part of that? - No. This was something that
was relatively recent. This happened relatively recent. I mean, you can make the argument. It's the same culture that
that came out of that stuff. - Cancel culture. - Yeah, that sort of stuff. That's exactly what it was. So for me, we brought on Carolyn, I was one of the first people
to actually interview her after that whole ordeal happened. And opening came up and I was like, why don't you come work with us. We already know you can do the job. And she's having the
time of her absolute life working for the Rippaverse. And I look at that type of thing as where the cultural impact of something like the Rippaverse existing, because it allows people
to be able to be themselves without fear of having to, well, I might say something online or I might have said
something online 10 years ago that someone might get mad at. And then try to make a big fuss about it and then that the company's gonna fire me. They don't have to worry about
that here at the Rippaverse. And the reason why I think
that's so very important is because you're gonna get
the best out of these employees and these contractors having
them knowing that, right? They know that they can be themselves. And I believe work, I mean, I couldn't imagine it,
walking on those eggshells or feeling you have to
walk on those eggshells. - [John] Yeah. - Just to create, I can't imagine you putting your best foot forward and under those conditions, right. - You just did a Twitter video specifically about this, right? - [Eric] Yeah. - About what you're about as a company. - [Eric] Yeah. - What was that message? - That message was, look, everybody knows that I'm a commentator for sure, but we have our only rule
here at the Rippaverse when it comes to stuff like
that, just leave it at the door. And that includes me. Right. They would just leave it at the door. - [John] Except for the text message. Not to call you out. - Yeah, yeah. No, I get what it is what you're saying. But again, it's not the drive. - [John] But that's part
of you, that's part of you. - Right. That's me. - [John] Yeah. - And again, it's not the
driving point of this company. Right. - [John] Or the story. - Or the story, right, at all. That would be a fundamental problem. I'd be a hypocrite if I did that. Right. All this stuff I've been griping
about Marvel and DC about beating everybody over the head with the political views and stuff. I'd be a hypocrite if I
did the same exact thing. So the point is, it's not
that people should be amoral, it's not that people
shouldn't have principles, a guiding set of ethics or whatever. No. It's that, again, don't
let it get in the way of the story as it is that we're telling and don't disrespect the customers in the process of doing it. That's it. Leave everything else at the door. So that's what it is
that I was explaining. I mean, because we have
people that are here, we're a growing company. The company's getting bigger and bigger and yeah, there's gonna
be people that may differ. I mean, I don't think there's enough maybe anarcho-capitalists to find, right? For us to hide. - No, there's not. - Right. You know what I'm saying? So I couldn't fill my whole
entire company with that. But no, it's just people, I
don't care where they're at. Those are my only two requirements. The way that I word it in that video, as I say, just don't be a hack. That's my only requirement. I don't care where you're
at on anything else. You can work for the Rippaverse. My only requirement is
that you don't be a hack. - [John] What's a hack? What do you mean by that? - When I say a hack, I mean, again, someone who is so ideologically obsessed that they allow it to get
in the way of business. They allow it to get in the way of work. And I think that's what we've seen a lot with the main mainstream. Again, going back to
what happened in 2016, which made everybody crazy, people taking it to social media, to absolutely actually
disrespect longtime fans of a lot of different projects and brands. And that to me, is just
totally unacceptable. Right? So that's what I mean when
I say don't be a hack. Do not allow that stuff, you can have whatever
positions it is that you have, that's fine. Just don't allow it to get
in the way of business. And that's why I word it in a way and I say just leave it at the door and everybody's done that. It's not a topic of
conversation within our company or anything other than, okay, how do we make the Rippaverse better? How do we improve as a company, how do we improve our stories? How do we improve our art? And we have all these big aspirations, Rippaverse Studios and everything. We're a goal-oriented company. We're not an ideological obsessed one. And I think that's why it
works the way that it is because to be honest, a lot of people are just tired of that. And I know that, especially with me being a political commentator and being a libertarian right, there was once upon a time where this type of stuff
really didn't even come up with businesses. I think a lot of folks
wanna return to that. If they want to be entertained, they just want to be entertained. They don't really want it to
come with some other stuff, in certain mediums, right? - [John] Yeah. - Maybe it's appropriate in other medium, entertainment mediums. But especially with comic books, I've spoke with Chuck Dixon
about this many times. He's like, I don't want
you thinking about me when you read a Batman story. That's not his point. You shouldn't even be thinking about me. You should be thinking about Batman. It's not Chuck Dixon trying
to write himself into Batman and his political views into Batman. No, Batman is already established. Batman has a persona. We know who he is. So let that be the primary
focus and be the driving point. I think that's just a principle that, it works so well for us
having that implemented in our company. - So you're a super
big fan of "Black Man", black Batman, right? - Not at all. - [John] Let's talk about
this for a little bit. - Let's do it. - Let's talk about this,
I think now it's funny because South Park has sort
of, they planted the flag. Put a girl in it, make her gay. - [Eric] Make her lame and gay. Yeah. - So what's going on there and why wouldn't you have liked there to be a black Batman as a kid? Isn't that legit to be like,
hey, here's this character that people love and I want
to include more audience, people who aren't seeing
themselves in this character that's this iconic figure. - Yeah. See for me, I think that
is where the insulting of the audience comes in. Because I talked about Batman and him being my favorite character and I'm not, well I can't even use that. I'm not rich anymore. I can't say that anymore, but
you get what it is I'm saying. I'm not some rich, white
guy walking around. But that's a character
that I could relate to. Right. And even growing up with
Wally was the same situation. And I think that a lot of this race stuff is not a lot of it, all
of it for the most part is a superficial kind of thing. And what I mean by that is that it is not necessarily the
most important thing about me. Right. I can't control this. I kind of just came out this way. Parents just happened
to be a certain color. Right. I didn't earn it. Right. I just came out the womb like that. - [John] Yeah. - So while, yeah, I am black, it's not the defining trait
of me as an individual. And I think most people that
see themselves as individuals see it that way, and this hyper-emphasis and this hyper-focus on
trying to get black versions of predominantly or
previously white things, to me is just insane. Especially when we're supposed to have this supposed creativity that
floats all around Hollywood and the comic book industry. But apparently, the only
thing that they can do is race and gender swap. Right. A previous idea, that's
boring, as all get out. And it's funny because if we
were having this conversation before the Rippaverse,
you have a lot of folks that will run around saying, well, the reason why we have
to race-swap these characters is because yeah, they throw out the representation nonsense. But they also say that, well, when they try to do
original black characters, it doesn't work. Yeah, it does. You just have to give people
what it is that they want. One of our most anticipated characters with our next book, "Yaira"
woman, female character, they will get behind brand-new, fresh, original characters, just don't suck. That's really what it
boils down to, right? I mean, it's simple as it is. Just don't suck. But it is, again, to
me, an insulting thing that definitely recent and
modern, I guess creatives, I use that term loosely,
believe that the only way that I can relate to a character is if he shares the same skin tone as me. And I think there's more
to me as an individual, I think there's more to other black people that are in the world as well and people are fans of
various different characters. I mean, you look at the anime and the manga scene right now, which is again, exploded in the West. - Oh yeah. - I don't look like
anybody, Dragon Ball Z, I don't have a tail
growing outta my behind and I can't turn super
saiyan and I'm not even. - You can't cause action
lines to spring up just by going like this. - Just by going like this and yelling at the top of my lungs, while my hair turns yellow, none of that. There's no relatability. - You can't have weird occasional
twitching in your eyes. - I can't do any of that. Right. But especially out here, he's arguably the most
recognizable character. Right. It just shows, especially
by black people, right? He was like anime and manga
seen among black culture. It don't look him and it works out. It's just something that is specifically these narrow-minded western creatives. Again, using the term
creatives very loosely. They just believe that
this is the only way that people get behind stuff. And I also think they're
just out of ideas, no matter how creative they
to think of themselves as, they're out of ideas. If the only thing that you can do, I remember when the DC
fandom thing was coming out and that was at 2020 and they were talking about
this whole Black Batman thing. It was like, is he interesting? No. Talk about this with Chuck Dixon. Think about all the sexuality swaps that we've got recently. - [John] Yeah, gay Superman. - Gay Superman, you got gay
Tim Drake for some reason, even though we just saw
him with Stephanie Brown for 30 years. None of this makes any sort of sense. But now they're gay out of nowhere. Did they make the
characters more interesting when they did that? No. They're just gay now. Right? There's no intrigue there. There's no interest there. Now they're just gay, right? So that's what I'm talking about. It's so shallow, it's so boring
in terms of their stories that they try to tell. And again, it just never lands. And none of that stuff really ever works. - Do you think we're at the end of that? Do you think that the woke
bubble is starting to burst in the culture space, in the movies, and I mean obviously,
Disney's taken it on the chin. We don't do the same, quite
the same kind of bashing on Rachel Ziegler in
thumbnails 45 times a month. - [Eric] Yeah. - But not that there's
anything wrong with that. But do you think that there's genuinely an exhaustion with watching press junkets where the only thing that
people can talk about is that they're the first this or that, even when it's not true. - Yeah. Oftentimes, it's not. - I'm the first female action hero. - That's what Jennifer
Lawrence apparently thought. - Yeah. - Okay, Ripley. - Yeah. - But Princess Leia. - Yeah. What are you talking about? But yeah, I do think that I will say this, I think there's two ways to look at it. You got one. And just from a cultural perspective, yes, I do believe that a lot of people, even the normies are tired of this. Right. Even though there may have
been people gaslighting, a lot of people saying
that this wasn't a thing. I think you can't deny it now. And it's is too. And definitely the ones,
South Park covered it, it's obvious, like okay, this is a thing. Everybody knows it's a thing. Everybody knows it's a problem. Okay. So yes, I do believe that
culturally people are, even normies, kind of
tired of that aspect. On the flip side, and this is
where things get interesting, I still don't believe
that the mega-corporations that have control of these
properties are gonna change soon. I don't think they possess the capacity to be able to pivot that quickly anyway. Right. And we've seen this, I
don't know if you guys heard the chick, I
can't remember her name, Sharmeen something. She's the new director of
an upcoming Star Wars film. - Oh, I've seen a little bit from her. - [Eric] Leading with activism. Activism, activism. - Yeah. - [Eric] She even flat out admitted it, like this is a part of
everything it is that I do. And it's like, okay. - Was this fair? 'Cause I think there was some stuff where there's old unrelated stuff, interviews from her that
was sort of dredged up by anti-woke YouTube and said. - Well, no. She flat out said that
every, as a filmmaker, everything it is that she does as part, she says she's a
filmmaker and an activist. I'll take her by a literal,
that's what she said. And then she went on
about how either overtly or covertly activism is a
part of every film it is that she makes. Right. That is a disastrous
mistake for Lucasfilm. They have been laying
egg after egg after egg with Kathleen Kennedy and her approach. Everybody's tired of this. And to me that shows that they have learned absolutely nothing. They haven't learned anything or they just don't care to pivot. So this is why. - [Eric] Or they wanna troll their fans. - Maybe that's what it is. Maybe they get off on this. Right. Maybe it is. - There's a little bit of
cynical back and forth. Like, oh, if we, how often do
you think we're being punked? - [Eric] Yeah. - Right? The kind of like, oh I know
weird right-wing Twitter, YouTube is gonna get angry and this is gonna be
tons of free publicity. - Yeah. I do think that there is an aspect of it where they do believe that the head, I think it's two things. Okay. One, yes. I think they operate that
where they do believe that making folks feel some
kind of way will get headlines. Where they get it wrong is that
headlines don't equal sales. This is what the comic book industry has had a very difficult
time understanding, especially with the mainstream. Who cares that X, I don't
know, comic book publication covered you, Tim Drake
now gay, bold, and brave and Tom Taylor or whatever his name is, has a gay S on his chest, immediately once he announces it, right? Then you go look at the sales numbers and nobody has to take
my word for anything, just go look it up and it
falls off an absolute cliff. So all those retweets, all those likes, all those headlines it
is that you're getting, what does that ultimately amount to? So while I do think there is
some nefarious stuff at play, excuse my language, I think
they're also just stupid. I do think there's general incompetence that works with
mega-corporations just because I, and my familiarity,
especially with doing TV stuff and talking to some of these guys, they live in a completely
different dimension. And I think that's what differs with some of the creative
stuff it is that we do. Because I can't afford to
lose half a billion dollars like they did with the Marvels, or almost half a billion dollars. If I make something like that, that aggravates my fan base so much to where they're turned
off, my company's done. But with the mega-corporations, this why I effectively
call them the sugar daddies of the industry because
they're the only ones that could sustain these types of losses. Right. - [John] That's for now. - Yeah. And again, for now maybe, looking at it a glass-half-full
kind of situation, the properties go into the tank and maybe they come up for sale again. Like I believe, at one
point they got Spider-Man, Sony for $7 million. I could probably afford that. Right? So maybe it goes into the tank again and guys that actually
care about the properties are now owners of them. But with the mega-corporations,
there's both incompetence and I think the incompetence
comes from the leadership, the nefarious behavior
comes from the creatives because I do think they
get off on an aggravating certain pockets of the internet, but more specifically, people that lean a certain way politically that's not in alignment with them. And again, if they want to
keep that up, their business, because the proof is in the pudding. - [John] Half the consumer base. - Is gone. It's gone. Especially, what's happened
with Disney is remarkable. - It breaks my heart because
I think, I really did, I loved Disney. Walt Disney is a hero. I wanted to be a Disney animator. My first job outta
school wasn't at Disney, but it was at MTV animation where "Daria" and "Celebrity Deathmatch"
where in production. And it was going to Comic-Con
at the Javits Center right down the street from our office. All that stuff. To see that become so
cynical is just like, you're breaking my heart. - I get it. No, I get it. I mean when definitely when you consider that even the non, I mean
Disney-related properties that they have, I talk
about this with Marvel, me being a comic book guy, and people that are big
"Star Wars" guys or Pixar or all these other companies
that they ate up by the way that they seem to run into
the ground as of recently. And yeah, you feel some kind of way, especially when you grow
up on that material, right? It's like, dang man, you don't wanna see these
characters be ruined. You don't wanna see these
characters be bastardized. But the way that I see it
is, I was that guy, right? I went a long time. People that follow me, I went a long time sitting
there griping about my issues until I was like, you know what? They're not gonna fix it. And to be fair, I don't know if they have the setup to do it. I do believe that if those
individual properties are ever going to get
back to being prominent, they have to be owned by
someone that cares about it. Not a mega-corporation,
like with a Bob Iger, right? Who doesn't know anything about Marvel, he doesn't care about any of that stuff, it's not for him to care. But there's so much disconnect there, and there's no passion, and it shows in the actual
product that they are producing. The ownership doesn't have
a direct line of sight with the creatives. And again, it shows, it shows, people are picking up on this. They can tell when you
don't care about it, right? - Yeah. - They can tell when,
sometimes they just admit, sometimes they'll just flat-out say that they're not interested in it or I don't understand how you get people that work these jobs, especially
in leadership positions, be directors that were
never fans of this stuff. And they'll be flat out just say, yo, I didn't really even this stuff, bro. I'm like, what the, of
all the people to select, this is the guy. - Couldn't you find one? Couldn't you find somebody that loved? There's a lot of people
that love these things. There's a lot - A lot and a lot of them have that talent to be able to direct and do other things. But you pick the ones
that don't care about it. Admittedly they don't. And again, I think that just
that's the corporate setup. So for me, I believe that
our only way out of this is by doing what Disney did. And that's creating, I think
that's our only way out of it. I think that we're gonna have
to enter into a new generation of American media that's
gonna be original. And I would love for 2024 to be looked at years down the line like there was some sort
of creative renaissance that happened there and
there's a lot of new properties that spurred up that are
now wildly successful, that are adopted by people
of various age groups. It's very, very successful. I would love something
like that to happen, but going on my days,
clinging on to Disney and being like, oh man, I
really want you to fix Marvel. Now I'm like, do whatever
you want with it. Sorry. - Okay. Let's talk business. - [Eric] Yes. - So first of all, Rippaverse. Now I understand. What's the origin of that name? - Well, that's been my nickname since, I mean, that came from the rap game. I mean I got named, that
was in middle school when somebody gave me that name. And I was in high school, ironically, when I created my YouTube, which is I was a The YoungRippa, it's been the same name since
I was, again, a teenager. But yeah, just stuck. It's just something that stuck and that's been my nickname. It was my nickname growing up in Dallas. It was my nickname everywhere I went. So kinda worked out. - What was your understanding of how to run a business
getting into this game? - I love that question. I came up during the era, especially way out here in Texas, right? For people that grew up
in the hip-hop scene, the mix tape scene in Texas was the thing where folks were selling mix tapes, CDs out of the trunk of their car. - Mix tapes of existing copywrited music. - No. No, I'm talking, well, there were those hustlers, but I'm talking about
the actual artist, right? - Okay yeah. - That was the hustle. Especially in Dallas and Houston, right? That was especially the hustle out there. So I grew up in that era, right? That was my first introduction
to business per se, was being an artist, right? Being a creative. And this was before a lot of the Spotifys and all that, none of
that stuff was around. I mean, I think MySpace
might've been there, but it wasn't a place
where a lot of people were going to put their music
on it and stuff like that. It was, hey, burn a CD, burn a bunch of CDs,
convince people to buy it, perform it at shows, and
doing stuff like that. So my understanding of
business came from that scene, that scene club scene, and all of that. And then one thing led to another. And again, that was a hustle. That was a true, again, there was no, again, mega-corporation
that was trying to sell this with their, already long
line of I guess rapport, with audiences, there was
none of that going on there. - There was no IP. - [Eric] Yeah, there was none. - Where's the IP? I'm looking to buy IP. - That wasn't a thing. It was, you had to run off your talent and you had to run off of, again, your ability to hustle and
convince people to get in on it. And that was my introduction. I remember going school to
school when I was a youngster in my cutlass selling mix tapes
out of the trunk to people. 'Cause, we were, definitely
the duo that I was in, me and Jay Don, we were
pretty big during that era. But that was my introduction to music. That was my introduction to business. And during the club scene, finding out how shady
that stuff was, right. That was my introduction kind of with, and I got all that experience
before I turned 20. Right. So that's why I think a lot of the business stuff worked for me. It started with music. Let's just say that. 'Cause I had my first band
with Fire from the Gods, and then we had obviously BackWordz, and our success, and there
was a lot of business stuff that I was doing in between. And then that all led up. I took all of that experience and I threw it into the
Rippaverse and made it happen. But that all started
when I was a teenager. It was hustle. - What would you, for a
young kid who's hearing that, what is business? - When I think business, right? I'm thinking everything that
comes with selling a good or service, right? And there is a lot of,
nevermind the legal crap that you gotta make sure that
you have to take care of. Everybody has to, it's a
headache but you have to do it. But just understanding who
your target audience is, just little stuff like that which you don't really pick up on. I think especially creatives
get this really bad way where they think I'm just
a very creative person. I'm the best musician in the world. I'm a very talented guitarist. I can do all these sweeps, nobody cares. I'm just being honest. Nobody cares. Or to be more accurate you
have to convince people to care about that, about that stuff. And to me that's what I think of business. And this is why when I
launched the Rippaverse, I came out with the code of ethics. I needed people to understand who it is that we were. - Yeah. - Right. - This is really interesting. - Yeah. It's in every book. - At the end of the book,
the Rippaverse ethic. I wanna read a little bit of
this 'cause it's really great. - [Eric] Yeah. - Respect the customers right at the top. We want you invested in this brand and everything that comes from it. Rippaverse comics is not
entitled to your money. And we must earn your support. Now I can go on, but that stuck. We are very like-minded
politically in a lot of ways maybe in every way. - Maybe. - What does that mean? You're not entitled to the money. What does that mean? - I think people need to understand that it'll make business go a lot easier if people understand that
you're not owed money. So again, going back to the
fact that I said nobody cares. You can be the most talented
person in the world. You can think of yourself
as this hot shot, big shot guy or gal. Doesn't matter. At the end of the day, nobody owes you anything
as far as their money. You have to convince them
that they value, right? And they should value this product over the dollars it is
that they are giving you. And you gotta convince them of that, they're gonna part ways. That's why I take it very
seriously when people part ways, especially in this economy,
part ways with their money. But that's your base. And I think especially with art and I think that's what makes it unique. It's too, 'cause I dealt with
this in the music industry as well, it's way too peer-driven. These people forget. And I think that's why a lot
of people don't see success because these people forget who it is that they're selling to. My peers can think I'm the
worst writer in the world. I don't care. They could think everything about us, they could think they're better. I don't care. None of that matters to me. 'Cause I'm not selling to you. I'm selling to my customers. I'm selling to the audience. I'm selling to the people out there. It's not about impressing you. And I think that's what
the trap that a lot of, especially with Hollywood, want to pat each other on
the back with everything. I think that's why a lot of these messages get thrown up in this stuff because they're not
writing to the audience. They're writing for the, it's almost a virtue signal in some case because they're writing to, in a way that makes them be presented
as these good people. Right? And for me, it's like, bro, you're parting ways with your money. I take that very, very
seriously and I respect, and value, and admire everybody
that goes outta the way to purchase Rippaverse stuff. And I make sure my staff understands that even though they might not be as impacted, they get their money regardless. Right? They're contracted, they're on salary or hourly or whatever it is. I make sure it's instilled
within this company that none of this happens, nobody gets paid if these guys
aren't satisfied with this. So that's the approach that businessmen and women need to have. You need to target the
crap out of your audience. But more importantly,
you need to respect them. You need to respect,
especially once you get 'em. Because it's funny, we were just talking
about this last segment of what happened with Disney. Should they believe that
you're not giving them what it is that they want or worse, they're being disrespected. They'll walk away from it. They're out, period. - I want to get, and I'm gonna save this to go deeper later in our conversation, but I do wanna get into actually
just political philosophy. 'Cause you are a deep
thinker on this stuff. And you've gone through
your own transformation, but along the way, 'cause
there's political philosophy or economics baked into
stuff you just said. - [Eric] Yeah, for sure. - And one of the things I heard, and I know he's a thinker that you admire, Walter Williams, George Mason. I have a lot of friends at
George Mason University. 'Cause I did these
Keynes, Hayek rap videos with Russ Roberts out of George Mason. - Yeah, yeah. - And Walter Williams
gave the best explanation of the role of what money is
in an economy I've ever heard. And he said, money is a receipt for your contribution into
the value of the society. That's what it is. You make a thing, you put it
out there, someone values it, and that's your receipt that you get. And then you get to turn around
and use that and trade it. But the underlying thing that
makes that worth anything is that it's a contribution. Which is why if you just
print a bunch of 'em, there was no contribution. - Yeah, that's unfortunate. And we've seen what
that does to our money. But he's right. I love what Walter talks about, even with the concept of greed, right? Where he talks about the, he used to talk about those
Idaho potato farmers, right? He is like, they weren't
going to New Yorker just to try to sell the potatoes 'cause they cared about 'em. It was more of they knew they
could make a buck, right? And everybody benefits from that. But that's what it's about. It's about filling a
void or a demand per se, and money being the most common commodity, especially after they printed
as much as they do seriously, when people part ways
with that sort of stuff it is something to take
very, very, very seriously. Right? And as a businessman, going back to what it is that
we were talking about before. I mean, when you see the
way that people get it, and they have to do
their own set of services for someone else, job. Right. In order to make that money. Right. So it's not like it's just, the government can print it out thin air. You can't, you know what I mean? - Well, they're just really
stealing it from you. Right. Like okay, here, you
put some contributions and I'm gonna water that down for you. - Yeah. I'm gonna make that not be
as valuable as it once was. Which is why they say,
inflation is kind of, not kind of, it is a tax, but seriously, all that being said, it's an important thing to understand. And I think maybe that's
where a lot of aspiring, be it entrepreneurs, creative people, why it's so hard for them to break through because they don't, I would
argue that my understanding of economics, just how the world works, how money works, the study
of human action per se benefits me to your point in
everything it is that I do. - Yeah. - And how I navigate the world and how I navigate the Rippaverse. Right. It's such a core part of that. And I think if more people understood it and what it was, definitely
economics, let's say this, they get around a whole
lot of potential headaches that come with being a businessman. Because there's a lot of 'em. Trust me. - So what was, take me back to the moment where you were like I'm doing
this, do you have co-founders? - [Eric] Just me. - Okay. So what were the key milestones
at the very beginning of starting this company
where you were like, I'm really in it now and
here's the things I'm doing. Was it the first, whether it's the hiring of the first employee, bringing in money and now I gotta make something happen, play that out for that young entrepreneur. Like here's what it's gonna be like when you first get, you got this idea and you have to get started. What happened? - So for me, me being a commentator and having this bigger YouTube channel, when I floated it out there that I was thinking about
it, that was a commitment. - [John] Yeah. You set expectations with your audience - Period. I'm a guy, and I think
that's why this worked the way that it did, I built
a rapport over the last what, 18 years of being in the public
space of doing entertainment with my audience, I always
deliver on everything it is that I said I was gonna do, everything. Not one thing that I say, ah,
get to it when I get to it. If I floated it around out
there, I went and got it done. And I did it to the best of my abilities. Not to say that it was ever perfect, but it was to the best of my abilities. And I put my heart and soul in that. And I think people are willing to certainly invest in stuff that. So for me, I built all this,
got all this money, right? I saved, and I said, you know, I get to float that out
there to the audience. And I was like, I'm thinking about this. And which again, that was
basically a commitment. And then it was like, okay,
now that I'm doing this, I gotta surround myself with
people that know what it is that they're doing, especially
within this industry. So that's how I got with Cliff Richard. I got with Gay Bill Taep
who had just left DC as a colorist, right? - Yeah. And the ink and paint is great. I love the production of this. It's all top-notch. - And that's what needed to happen, right? If I'm gonna take this serious, the audience needs to see that, they need to understand
that I'm not playing around. - [John] Yeah. - So that's what I did. Right. I didn't try to take
any shortcuts with it. And it, yeah, having, I mean,
I guess hindsight's 20-20. There's some things definitely
I would've maybe done a little differently. I can't complain after making $3.7 million on my first project. - Yeah, pretty amazing. - There's some things that
could have happened and yeah, for sure it could have been better. But ultimately, it started with an idea. It started with a commitment and recognizing that I am one man. And comics, really
anything you do in business is very much a team sport, right? You can have the best and brightest ideas, but you're only one person and you're not a genius in everything. Right? You might be, I'm really,
really good at this, my job, and this is what I wanted to work towards. And it really was only
recently that we caught up to our demand to where I got to the point to where I'm best as the EIC
and the CEO of this company. Right? - [John] Explain what that means, EIC. - When I say that I'm meaning
facilitating basically all of the creative stuff, all the ideas, vetting it, coming up with them. - [John] Executive in charge. - Yes. That's what I need to be. I need to be that creatively, and obviously, with the
business mind it is that I have, looking at those ideas in
certain points of expansion. But I'm only one man, right? So I had to get people to fill in roles that I was doing for, I
don't wanna say a long time, but for a while there within our company. But that's what you have to do. I think that's what
leadership is all about, is putting people in positions to succeed. So having a guy like Alex be
my financial operations guy, or my operations manager in
the warehouse with Brandon, these guys are phenomenal at their job and I trust them as well. That's an important thing
that I think you have to do. You gotta. - Oh yeah. A hundred percent - For me, you gotta bring
people in that you trust. And if you don't trust
'em why are they there, for me, I make sure that these
guys are set up to succeed. And they'll all tell you, I
don't micromanage them at all. Why do I have you here? If I have to micromanage you, why on earth do I have you here? So we have people that
I trust with the job. They do it, they do it phenomenally. But that's also what it is
that you have to understand, I think as a young entrepreneur, is that you can't do everything. So you need to surround
yourself with people that can cover any deficiency
it is that you have, and you have to have enough humility to understand what you're not good at. You gotta have some sort of reflection. And I'm not saying
don't think that you're, the old saying is if you don't
think you the S, nobody will. And I get that, right? But in the same respects,
you gotta understand that you're one individual
and you gotta understand that you don't know
everything about everything. And put people in those positions to operate that part of your business. Recognize it, acknowledge
it, and operate it. That's why the Rippaverse works. It wasn't just, yeah, I came up with a lot of the original ideas, but
if we don't have a team to execute that, 'cause
you gotta remember, it ain't just the creative
stuff we're doing. We're our own distributor, right? So there's a lot that's, I said that, I made a lot of creative
mad when I said this. I said the creative part,
that's the easy part. - [John] Getting the logistics done. - That's a different animal. That is a very, definitely
with our volume, right? We pushed 60,000 books
with that first one. And that's books over a hundred
thousand individual items if you're talking shirts
and all that stuff. And we had to be the ones to deliver 'em. And it's not to a
retailer where it's like, we give 'em to you, y'all disperse it. No, we're going directly to the customers. That comes with a lot there. And understanding that you
gotta have people in positions that know what it is that they're doing. Otherwise, something that doesn't work. - Where did you hit something
where you're like, oh man, I'm at the edge of what I
understand how to do here. Because that's, I've been
in the entrepreneurship game since I left Spike in 2011. And the best thing
about it and the hardest is that every day you're
hit with something. where you're like. - [Eric] Something that you don't know. - Like how do I do this? I'm totally faking it right now. I'm just gonna have to figure this out because I don't know what I'm doing. - No, I mean, the first
time I would for sure say it had to do with the shipping
side, the creative stuff that was, again, easier. But that was my first time handling, obviously, this is not the
first time I ship something, but when you're talking about that volume, it's just you deal, I'm sending, I'm receiving items, I got supplies and all that in our
warehouse, and I'm having a- - [John] Inventory verse. - Inventory. That's a whole nother thing. Just something as simple as
the racks and all that stuff. It was a learning experience where I knew a little bit about it, but for sure there was a lot
of learning along the way, especially with negotiations
with the parcel companies that we work with. - [John] For delivery. - For delivering the product, because that's one thing
that I learned very quickly. When you deal with the volume it is, that's a positive though. You deal with the volume
that it is that we do, everything's up for negotiation. All those numbers that you see in pricing, that's not for the people
that do those numbers. Literally every aspect of the business when you're working with
a vendor or a supplier it's up for negotiation. Now, again, that's where I excel there, but understanding that was
the kind of mind-blowing thing is just nothing's off the tape. Not even something as simple
as the boxes that you get. All of that stuff's up for negotiation. The whole entire thing is you gotta talk to the right people, get the
best price when you're dealing with that sort of volume. And yeah, there's gonna
be some conversations that you have to have, and you gotta be a little stern, right? That's business, right? You gotta hold your ground. And I excel at that. I just didn't know to the degree that it was gonna be that
with everything it is that we basically do as a company. - Where do you think
that ability to negotiate came from for you? Because that's not easy and
not everybody can do it. And it requires, yeah, being
able to be confrontational in a way that's- - [Eric] You have to be confrontational. - But it's gotta be constructive. You can't just be a hothead. - [Eric] Correct. - So you've gotta have a goal in mind. Where did you, where is
that coming up from you that you're like, I have this,
this is a tool in my toolbox? - Well, I'll say two things. First, my mother, she was,
man, I was just watched that woman deal with so much stuff and be able to maintain
a level head with it, which was amazing, but yeah, going back to
what I talked about earlier with the rap game stuff, was
where I learned a lot of that, on the Dallas hip-hop scene where I was convincing people
that had never heard of me to buy a CD, right? Right. Where it's I have to convince this person, this person is lending me their ear. I have to now say, you
should jam this, right? You're gonna put this in
your car, stereo or whatever, and you're gonna love this. And having to convince people of that was a very difficult thing. And it's funny, in the game,
you do it in this micro way, but you also do it in this macro way where it's like, say
you go perform at a show and maybe there's a bunch of people and they don't know who you are. Right. - [John] And you gotta bring 'em in. - You gotta bring them in, right? So there's negotiation kind
of aspect of negotiation there and their activity that
you have to consider. But I would owe it to that mix tape era. I would owe it to the rap game for sure. And being able to negotiate is I think that's one my strengths is
that I don't shy away from it. And I think it's because I've
done it for a very long time. - So many, this is called
"Dad Saves America", because, I'm a dad first of all. And I look at what's
going on with our kids and our culture, which to
me is why I was so excited to have you on because
this is such a big part, what you're engaged in,
pop culture, comic books, heroic stories, it shaped you. It's shaped me. It's shaping our kids. - Yeah. - Where do you think the
current, young readers are? Do you have a sense of changes in culture? 'Cause this is, it's a
youth business you're in. - Yeah, it is. I will say that their attention is, they grew up differently,
right, than we did. - [John] Yeah. - And I think a lot of that has to do with the ease of access to certain content that we didn't really have. Right? It's a different era. So when promoting and when trying to get your stuff out there,
you have to consider that. And it can be a little difficult. It can be a little difficult. How you used to consume media or even learn about media is
not the way that they did. It's a completely different animal. I talk about, even though
I'm a relatively young guy, I was the last generation
of arcade gamers. - [John] Yeah. - Right. That were actually grew up in the, where the arcade was the thing to be. Right? And that's not- - It was a place you would
actually be excited to go as a kid. - Yes. To go to, as a kid was the arcade. Right? That's not a thing anymore. Right. It's just a completely
different experience and how people learn about stuff. And now they have these
mini computers and tablets and stuff that's at
the, we didn't have any, we didn't have any of
that stuff growing up. So how we were learning
about it is just different. Whereas to them it's almost
information overload sometimes for them, and it can
be very, very difficult to break through. But I do believe there's a
lot of commonalities still that are there in that they
want to be entertained. It's funny, we talk about all
this, all this culture stuff and we talk about what
is woke, what is not. And I think that what anime and manga, which is so big among
the younger generation, I would say it's bigger than what, it was getting there when I was there, that was when Dragon Ball was. But it wasn't- - [John] It's a whole different level now. - It wasn't like it was now in the West. - And it's so much more sophisticated. The stories, to even call
it, to even say manga, like that's one thing
is obviously not true. There's a thousand genres. - Genres of it. It mixes it up and there's a little something for everybody. And I think that goes, but that's something to look forward to in the same respects. The reason why I say that, is because that it shows that for one, there's a demand for comics. 'Cause that's a comic, you
just read it the wrong way. The wrong side, right? - [John] Yeah. - From back to front. But it's a comic at the end of the day. That's what mangas are, right? It's a comic. And there's a lot to learn
from how they approach the entertainment stuff. And I think there's still that demand that you have to consider. The difficult thing is
breaking through to them with the information overload
it is that they have, and this is why I think
having the rapport that I have with the audience, because
I needed a launching point. That's what I needed was
more than anything was, I needed a starting
point that wasn't a zero. And I did, right. I had my own audience to at
least give it the time of day. So other people would
give it the time of day. Word of mouth is still word of mouth. It's a different word of mouth. It's not you're literally
talking to someone and maybe just posting it
online to your friends. And that's something that
you have to consider. But that's, I think the big difference with the world today and the youngsters is just how easily they're
able to access material in comparison to what they were before. - Yeah. We would go to the comic
bookstore, and buy this. And that was it. - [Eric] That was it. - Physical, which is also, and it's even just you're talking about production, it's like just cut perfect. - [Eric] Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of little
things you take for granted with this, and then that's it. And then you're waiting
until the next one comes out. - Yep. - And it isn't even,
when I was a kid, I'm 46, it was like when is that happening? The way you're knowing when
that's happening was magazines. - [Eric] Yeah, for sure. - Telling you when. - [Eric] Yeah. - Oh yeah. The upcoming, the news
you'd get through magazines, which were also a physical thing. You had to go to CVS to buy or whatever. - [Eric] Yeah. Yeah. - I wanna sort of shift
into your philosophy, but the way to bridge to that, we've talked about just entertainment, but there is a place for worldview and exploring big ideas. And I mean, you look at
something like "The Watchman", which is one of my
favorite graphic novels. And it builds a whole world
that's got a politics, it's got a statement about
the nature of conflict and how might the planet overcome it. And the bad guy has a kind of vision that you kinda understand. And so that it is baked in there. It doesn't become the message. There's still the hero's journey. There's still flawed
people trying to figure out how to accomplish the goals that sometimes they're
not even sure they have. But there is a role for
worldview and politics. So how do you, where does
it, do you have a philosophy of where it goes too far? Or is it like you know it when you see it? How do you think about doing
stuff that has politics in it, but is fundamentally still
a good piece of creativity, piece of art versus propaganda? I think about this a lot. 'Cause I'm very motivated by philosophy. A lot of my work is
philosophically oriented. Am I just a propagandist? I actually, I ask myself
that question, honestly. You can leave questions
in the comments about it. You are a propagandist John. We know. It's fine. It's fine. - I'll say this much. I do love how Stan Lee put it,
rest in peace, where he said he always put, if he was
gonna deal with social views, he put it underlying the plot. Never to the point to where
he felt he was beating the audience over the head. It's almost a direct quote
from what it is that he said. And for me, I start with universal truths and good, evil, what is bad, what is not. And starting with that is, I think, the way that you do it, because
sure, there may be people that differ on certain political aspects, but as far as what is good and for some, for most people, I don't wanna say some, for most people, they
understand what that concept is. - [John] Yeah. - And we often, in our material, we entertain that, right? And yes, there is a level of familiarity that you can put in your
books that you will see it or you will read it and you'll be like, that's kind of similar to X situation that happened to so and so, or maybe there was an
experience in your life. But as Mike Barron puts
it, the number one thing that you have to do is entertain, right? At least in our medium, right? There is a people that
listen to my band know that's a different animal, right? - [Eric] Yeah, I wanna
talk about that too. - I'm screaming, that's
a completely different, I will scream at, I mean
I have a song called "Self Ownership", right? Praxeology, I have a song called that. - There's some super
libertarian nerd stuff going on in there. - Yeah, a hundred percent. So that's a little different of an animal. But with the storytelling aspect and the comic book-based medium, I entertain that differently because it is a different type of medium. The general customer base or the consumer base is a different type of customer as far as what
it is that they value, right? Not to say that there
aren't political comics. 'Cause there are. Not to say that there
aren't legitimate satire. That's not to say that that doesn't exist, but especially in the superhero stuff and all those comics that
are being entertained, entertaining, that's what
they're leading with, number one. So that's where you have to start. Right? And I don't necessarily, as a writer, I don't go into it with
the line of thinking, okay, I need for people to understand where I'm at politically,
even if it's subtle. That's not my approach. Will it naturally, this is what
I was talking about earlier with, yeah, you're gonna have a set of guiding principles and that may influence your storytelling. And it's not even on purpose. - [John] It's who you are. - It's who it is that you are, right? But it's organic, right? And it feels that and
the audience knows that, there's a difference between
approaching it that way as opposed to approaching it like, okay, this is gonna be current year, the book. Right. And it's just everything. You might as well be
reading, watching CNN, as you're reading my book,
but that's not what it is. That's not the experience
that I want to give my writer. - Embrace the current thing. - [Eric] Yeah. Yeah. - Volume one. - Yeah. I don't wanna- - Each new one is volume one. - Yeah. It's a new thing. It's the current year comics
is what we would call it. Right. But no, see that I don't wanna do that. And I just don't think it works. I don't wanna say it doesn't work. I'll say that, I think you're
always gonna hit a ceiling with stuff that. Right. I think if your aspirations
are to have something that resonates with a
decent amount of people, inevitably speaking,
those different people are going to be
differentiating in politics and in certain social views,
which means that you have to have a level of
entertaining that is universal and applies to everybody. - I haven't read the comic, but I'm up to speed on the series. What do you think about "The Boys"? - It's an interesting take
on it, right, "The Boys", as far as it's- - It's riding this line in
a really interesting way. - [Eric] Yeah. - And I mean, it's dark. - [Eric] It is. - But it's a damn good show. - Yeah, I mean, obviously, it's shown the fatigue there isn't like what a lot of people think, I
think it's overstated there, people will gravitate towards
certain superhero elements. But that's the thing, it's
different, a different feel. And I think that's
refreshing for some people. I think people got that with
the "Invincible" stuff as well. - [John] Yeah. - Where it's a different approach, different change of
pace to what the Marvels and the DCs of the world, and what it is that they do, especially, with the kind of
stories it is that they tell and they entertain. But like I said, I do
believe there's a ceiling. I think those that do bad are the ones that maybe the line is thin. I don't know, I don't know how thin it is, but it's like, once you get there, you know that you've turned
off a bunch of people and they've said no,
but there's certain ways that people have been able
to pull off entertaining, not necessarily all of
what current year is, but there's elements to
it that are familiar. Let's just say that. But it's like I say, it gotta
lead with entertainment. And I don't know, maybe
that line is very thin because again, some
other people try to do it and they go too far and
they suffer because of bad, they suffer like, hey, nobody's interested
in this thing at all. So it's like, what that
line is, I don't know. But I think for me, and what
I would encourage other people to do it is just if you
start with entertaining the audience first, then
you won't have to worry about that problem. But if you're putting like, hey, I want to tell a social narrative
or I got a political story that I wanna make sure that's telling, I'll worry about the
entertainment stuff second, your story's gonna show and people are gonna pick up on it. - Alright. Setting the entertainment aside, you are a political commentator. - [Eric] Yes. - I know you even built a lot
of your base of your fan base that came to you and said, oh, you're starting a comic book company? I'm in. A lot of 'em are probably
like, they were people that came to know you from
your perspective on the world. - [Eric] Yeah. - Tell me that, how did your
perspective now come about, start from where you first
became politically interested, engaged, caring about issues to the world you're at now where you're
geeking out about praxeology. - Yeah. Right, right. No, I mean, I started as,
I was a leftist for sure. There's some old, you
probably can find me, right, wearing Shea shirts. I was bad, but I didn't know anything. I was very young. I didn't know anything about anything. So that's how I started,
when I was getting, it was just straight-up leftism, like socialistic line of thinking. What changed for me and what
did it for me was economics, that just subject matter, right? As a subject matter. And I remember still
being stuck in this box. I tell the story all the time, I was still stuck in this
hyper-racialized sort of box. And I was like, even when I
learned about this concept, I wanted to, I was intrigued by economics. I was like, I wanna learn about, I wanna know what the black economists, what they gotta say, right? Thank the Lord Jesus that
the ones that I encountered that I resonated with
was Dr. Thomas Sowell, as well as Dr. Walter E. Williams. - Why do you think they
resonated with you? - Well, because they would talk about, - Because, I mean, they're
titans, especially, I mean, what we were talking
about Walter Williams earlier, but Thomas Sowell is just
like, he's just a beast. - [Eric] Yeah. - And he's still going strong. - Still 90 years old, still
going like it's nothing. - But he's hardcore. He's not pussyfooting
around with his worldview. - Nah, he's unapologetic. That's what I love about him. But what I loved about him so much, or why I think it resonated
with me when I was younger and still into that definitely
that hyper-racialized box, is that they were entertaining
those ideas, right? So they were saying, okay,
look at this problem of like, okay, poverty or something like that. And thinking about it in a way that was, yeah, okay, it's a problem. But instead of looking
at it a white man bad or the man bad, they were
looking at it more so from, okay, how do we get into this position? So let's acknowledge this thing
that maybe you don't like. Okay, let's go through it. And, you got Thomas Sowell's
"Economic Facts and Fallacies". You got, obviously, "Basic
Economics" is number one for me with them. But even with Dr. Walter E. Williams, "The State Against Blacks", it's genius. That's genius, he talks
about something as simple as minimum wage, right? And how that has historically hurt young, particularly young black men. So he wasn't afraid and
neither one of them were afraid to talk about some of those issues that are just general talking points. But they were coming from
a place of like, okay, it was very informative and getting me to sort of
understand why things are the way that they are right now. - Let's go, I know I've seen you out there talking about the minimum wage issue. So what was Walter Williams talking about? What did you learn from
him about the history of the minimum wage? - And how it has historically been used and always been used to price
people out of the market. Right? So what Walter E. Williams
would talk about was that, look, think about it, you are in some busted-up
neighborhood, busted up area. You're going to a busted up
school, it's crap, right? Top to bottom. He's saying that most
of those types of people or those young people that
are in those situations, the place that they're
going to learn the most about the world and provide value to it is in the workplace. - Yeah. I totally agree. - [Eric] Right? - My son's been working at
jobs since seventh grade. - Period. Right? That's where they're
gonna learn a lot of that, especially under those conditions where they're not going to
the best schools and all that. And he will say, you look at
minimum wage as a means to say, okay, well, let's say that someone is, they are willing to give
you that experience. Maybe they say, hey, man,
I'll give you five bucks just to mop the floor. That's all. And that'll come with its set
of experiences and all that. What the minimum wage
unfortunately does is say that, well, for one, it's illegal
for them to to hire you. Right? So you can't do it. You literally can't,
even if you're willing- - [John] It better be 15. - Yeah. It has to be that. And they're not gonna hire
you for that amount at all. So what's happening is you
have these able-bodied people, young people, that would be better suited to learn about the world, right? Structure, everything. Especially, if they're coming
from these broken homes, right? Learning about the world in the workplace. And the government has made
it illegal for them to do so. And that has hurt generations
of young black people. Which is why even if you talk about that, and Walter E. Williams would
talk about this all the time, you look at the minimum wage
in areas where it gets raised and then you look at the demographics that are impacted in
terms of the unemployment. And it's always young
black boys, all the time. All the time. That's always been the case. - [John] Yeah. - Even if I'm talking about the latter half of the teenage years, that's what it's young
black men in that case, minimum wage is impacting
them the same way. So it was so insightful
to hear that talked about and discussed in the way that he does. So he takes like, hey, this
is a legitimate problem that even people on
the quote-unquote left, can agree with, in terms
of the situation it is that they're in. But they're being crippled
by their own government. And unfortunately, a lot of
people are advocating for that. And it's their own destruction. - I know even in the
early days, in the 1930s, the labor unions were explicit
about this, they would say, oh, we don't want this generation
of black workers coming up to the north from the
south to compete with us. - That was literally why it was first implemented in America. That is an absolute fact. It was to price black people
particularly, but also women and young people out of the
markets by predominantly, actually, exclusively white labor unions. That's a fact. That's not my opinion. Go research the Bacon-Davis
Act for anybody that wants to look at this is not, and it's funny because it's worked that way
in other countries as well. Australia, South Africa,
or you look at these places where they were literally implementing those minimum wage laws to
price people out of the market. That's how it historically has worked. And that's how it was
originally implemented across various spots. No matter what people
may think that it is now, when it was first implemented, that was why it was the price. And I'm glad that you brought that up. That's not an opinion, they
were pretty open about it. We don't want these people,
we don't wanna have to compete with these people in their labor. - So you encounter these
ideas and they're radical 'cause they're, I mean,
you're not turning on TV at the time or even
now and hearing anybody who claims to care say that. - [Eric] Right. - And then Walter
Williams and Thomas Sowell and others, but especially those two as far as prominent black intellectuals. - [Eric] Yes, yes. - They're saying it, they're
saying this is the reality. And what does that start
to do in your mind? Does that open doors? I think there's some people, some people they get this one
door open and it dominoes. - That's what it was for me. It was the rabbit hole. Once I learned about them,
one thing turned into another. So you go from reading about them and definitely the concept of economics. And definitely, when you're
floating around Sowell, you're just talking about
more Chicago economics. So that leads me into the
Milton Freeman's of the worlds, the Hayek's, well, let's say
start with Milton Freeman and then we go to more an
Austrian side of things, maybe even Milton Freeman's son, David. - [John] Yep, yep. - Or definitely, once you go Austrian, you're talking the Hayek's of the world. Mises again, that's why I
kept bringing up human action because of that. And that's just a rabbit hole. So literally was, it was one thing, that was my entry-level and then all that. And I went full-blown
rock bar by the end of it. But it all started with Sowell
and Dr. Walter E. Williams. That's how it was for me. - What about those ideas changed for you in terms of how you live your life or how you think about your daily choices? - I would say everything. Look, I was very much, again,
a socialistic collectivistic. That was kind of my line of
thinking when I was young. I became a lot more individualistic, which doesn't mean that like, hey, I don't care about anybody. I actually looked at it more
in a positive light in that, well, my world only moves if
I move it, type of situation. - [John] Taking responsibility. - And accountability. Those were I think what came from my just learning about economics. That's what came from
that is that individuality and less excuses. Definitely, once you read,
I mean, it's hard to, you read some of this stuff by Sowell and it's like, you feel
you can conquer the world and you really want to take
responsibility for yourself. Definitely, when you
realize just how people that in previous generations had
it way better than I ever had, including them. Right? Or in previous generations
I had it better than them. And what excuses do I
have to be making here? I mean, in comparison to
the previous generation, my mother's generation, my
grandmother's generation especially, I have access to things that they never would've been able to even conceptualize
in terms of opportunity. So I need to be taking advantage of it. So I would say that that's what
economics and learning that, again, the more Chicago
and Austrian economics, not this Coasean nonsense. I learned more about that. And because I learned more about that, it impacted my daily life because it allowed me to
understand that again, the world moves if I move it first, it's not gonna move if
someone else moves it for me. And there's a lot of, that's
a liberating thing I think, once you start realizing
that, and look, yeah, there are gonna be external
factors that you can't control, but those are what it is. It is funny, going back to the music stuff and the rest in peace to Kyle. But We Came As Romans is
one of my favorite bands, and there's a song lyric
where he was like, he says, don't let yourself think
that you control anything beside the way you live your life. So it's a genius. It's essentially saying
that I can't control that. I can't control what you do. I can't control what
anybody in this room does. I can't control what anybody
outside of this building does. I can't possibly control it. What I can control are my own actions. Right. And that's what I should lead with. But that all started with
the Economist that it is that I was a sort of learning
about during my younger years. And thank God 'cause it could
have went bad, for sure. - I recently released a video. I'm doing these essays and
I really went out on a limb for myself 'cause this is
a new territory for me. I've always been behind the camera. So doing my rap videos, and
my weird cronies animations, and all kinds of nonsense, all kinds of Gen X slash boomer nonsense. But it was about this movie
"Leave the World Behind" that the Obamas were
executive producers on. And I really dug into this
and I referenced Sowell on talking about, 'cause
under the surface of it is this sort of divisive
identity politics. And, I have kind of come to a
point in my life as an adult where I'm like, this is just telling kids they can't make it. And I'm not gonna sit silently
just 'cause I'm a white guy, although I'm Italian. So I never thought of myself
as white to begin with. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - But I'm done with that. This is not right. You can't tell kids that the
system's rigged against them and that they can't make
it because they're black or they're brown or whatever, BIPOC, all these increasingly
globular alphabet soups. - [Eric] Yeah. - That are everyone but me, I guess. - Yeah. - And you're, you've been out there, you've been one of those voices out there pushing back on this stuff. What is your message? In a way you just gave a great one, but more broadly, what is your message to a young African American
kid or a little white kid who's getting hit with this stuff? - Yeah. Well, I would say it's
going both ways, right? You have one sort of being
told that they're the victim in essentially every situation. And the other, even though
they've not done anything to anybody, that just by sheer existing, they have somehow caused a problem. And they need to acknowledge that. And it's insulting on both ends, right? So one's the supposed victim, the other's the supposed oppressor. And I say to that, that's nonsense, right? Again, going back to what we
were talking about before, you have to acknowledge
yourself as an individual. And that's why I have such
issues with these narratives that people push where, I mean, if people listen
to our band, BackWordz, "You, Are You" is a song that we did. And it's one of my favorite
songs that me and Alex had sung on that "Veracity" album. And we actually talk about this very topic where Alex is coming from his perspective and I'm coming from mine,
where Alex is saying basically, he can't be held
responsible for something his ancestors did. And I'm on the other hand
saying the exact same thing where I can't be victimized by something I didn't experience. Right. As though I hate the whole
term legacy of slavery. I had never been a slave in my life. That's never been a thing. That's nothing that I've experienced. And you've never owned any slaves, right? - Well, none of my ancestors got here. - [Eric] Exactly. - It was long gone before my
first ancestors set foot here. - Let these types tell it, you're still supposed to
take responsibility for it even though you weren't here. You know what I mean? Hell, the Nigerian Americans
supposed to somehow feel some kind of way
about American slavery that his lineage, literally,
they never experienced that. But that's how just
psychotic, unfortunately, these narratives are,
but at the root of it, what it is, is trying
to beat into the brains of these young people
that there is nothing in their control. And the world just is what it is. I think that's a dangerous
line of thinking. I think it actually
stifles entrepreneurship. Maybe someone doesn't give it a try. - [John] Yeah. - Maybe it's some wonderful invention that God put them on this
earth to do exactly that. But they never take that leap. They never take that risk. 'Cause they feel as if the
world is just what it is and there's nothing that they
can do in terms of the outcome because the decision has
been made from a societal, cultural perspective by other people. And I just despise, I actually hate it because everybody's an individual, they should be looked at as such, and I hate this line of thinking where people are supposed to
either feel some kind of way and feel bad about themselves for things that they never experienced and things that they
never did to other people. And on the other hand, feel like they've done something, like you see some of this stuff, I know people they call it whatever terms, but you're a dad and you could
see some of the stuff that, it definitely in some
of these public schools that they are teaching these young kids. And I just couldn't imagine, I just can't imagine
my child hearing that, you could imagine having a white child hearing some things like that,
which is basically saying that you are the problem with everything that's wrong right now. Or telling some little black kid that he'll basically
never amount to anything unless someone else has to
assist him in everything it is that he's done because
the world is against him. So he has to kind of see ghost. And that's just crazy to me, man. - To play devil's advocate is
where, are we being unfair? People are tribal, people see
color, especially with race, where it's visual. - [Eric] Yeah. - It's not an identity thing
that's below the surface. - [Eric] Right. - Is it unfair? Are we not given the
devil is due that, look, people are tribal and
they're gonna judge things. - And they are, I think. - In simple, horrible ways sometimes and to pretend that's not a problem is just being Panglossian and naive. - I do think that yes,
two things can be true. That there are obviously
pieces of crap out there that want to do evil things. But what I think happens is
that it's often over-exaggerated or in some cases just made up because that people need a boogieman. - [John] The Jussie- - The Juicy Smoo-yeh as
Chappelle called him. Yeah. - [John] Juicy. - Yeah. You just gotta make, it's made up. He literally made up the whole thing. But that's the thing
that I'm talking about with these race hustlers, right? Is that they're going out
there and making stuff up. So while there may be people
out there, it's not nearly to the degree of what it
is that they perpetuate. Look, you can acknowledge
that you're Italian, you can acknowledge that I'm black. There's nothing necessarily
inherently wrong with that. But that should not be the
defining trait of that person. And they are an individual. And yes, there are gonna be
people that maybe feel bad, feel some kind of way, may
gravitate towards to one side or the other. But it doesn't have to be malice is the, I think the point it
is that I would more so wanna make on this, which
is why I really despise these sort of narratives
because it sets people up for failure, really is
what it is that it's doing. So yeah, two things can be true. You can acknowledge I'm black, but that's not all there is to me. That'd be pretty boring. I'd be a pretty boring guy. And there are some pretty boring
people out there, I guess, to be fair, where that's
the only thing interesting about them is whatever gender
stuff or whatever sexuality or whatever race it is that you are, and oftentimes these are things that aren't even in your control. - You've used terms several times in here that we've haven't talked
about that much on the show, but, which I've read plenty of Rothbart I'm quite sympathetic to, and that is anarcho-capitalist. So what is that? - Well, look at it in a
libertarian sense of the, I guess, the furthest one can
go to being a libertarian, is the way that I word it, in a sense that, where you often think of modern libertarianism in
a more monarchist approach, where the government should
exist, markets are better, but there's just a few
different things like courts, security, whatever. - National defense. - National defense, where the
government should be there and should be doing that. All the anarcho-capitalist,
the way I word it, all the anarcho-capitalist
does is say, well, we accept that the market is better suited to deal with everything else. Why not those things as well? It's basically all that it is to it. Now me, I'm rational about this. I'm very much a realist, right? I'm not a, everything
needs to just end tomorrow or nothing else, right? I'm very much, I wouldn't
call myself a pragmatist, I don't really that term, but I understand that nobody's
snapping their fingers and we're gonna be in the
handicap society tomorrow. And I believe that there's a lot that has to get done culturally as well. So that's why I'm not
against coalition building and why libertarians, no
matter where you're at, you are my outlaw as far as I'm concerned. We're all moving, it's a train, and we're all moving in one direction. Maybe you're getting off a
little earlier than I am. Right? - You're staying to the- - I'm going all the way. - It's like, we stopped with tracks. - [Eric] Yeah. - Okay. Now we're off the tracks. - Yeah, I'm going all the way. And you and they might, but no, obviously, they're all my allies
as far as I'm concerned. We're all fighting the same fight and we're trying to deal
with the world as it is and trying to build about more free or more prosperous society. - So this term, this
philosophy is worth talking a little bit right now, in particular, because Javier Milei, the
president of Argentina, just got elected last year,
at the end of last year, and calls himself in
an anarcho-capitalist. He's hardcore, he's reading all the books we've been talking about, and he's in disaster town,
economic-wise, Argentina. It's like, have you been following that? - [Eric] Oh yes. Oh yeah. - How has that impacted
the way you think about the world we're living in right now? - No, I love it for this
reason, for whatever reason Americans have conceded
that a person like that, this whole populistic approach
to just sound economics, 'cause I think that's the
important thing about Javier that we need to acknowledge,
he was unapologetic. - [John] Oh yeah. - In terms of, his libertarianism. That was his campaign. It wasn't anything he was trying to hide. It wasn't anything he was trying to mask. It wasn't one, oh hey, I
infiltrated and then I, he was leading with it, and
the people got behind it. Right. And I remember posting about
this when this happened. I was like, how in the world
did Argentina of all places beat America in terms of
getting a libertarian? We're the ones that talk about
liberty, liberty, liberty and all these documents, and they got a libertarian
president before we did. And I guess, the one way to look at it is that it had to get pretty
bad for them to do that. - Yeah. - But I look at that as
nothing but a positive. It shows that yes, people
can lead with that. And it resonate with the audience, a lot of people it can resonate with. You can lead with that, you
don't have to be wishy-washy with your position 'cause you think, oh well, it's a little too
radical that, nah, you can, just you gotta make it make sense. And that's what Javier would do. He'd go on these shows,
he'd be arguing with people, he didn't care 'cause he
knew his stuff, right? And he often knew more than they did, and he was able to explain himself, and be able to communicate
those different ideas. And he was very, very passionate and people resonated with that. I love to see something
that happen in America. And, I actually get frustrated to get really into political stuff because you get these people who, especially, people on
the quote-unquote, right, who saw Javier and they're like,
oh man, this guy's awesome. And I'm sitting here like,
y'all had a version of that 2008 and 2012, instead
you wanted John McCain and Mitt Romney. - [John] Yeah, that's true. - I'm just saying. - I got into all these ideas. We're sitting here right
now because of that guy because a Texan, Ron Paul. - Yes, from Texas. - And similar stuff like,
weird, soft-spoken old man talking about geeky economics, getting on stage after 9/11 saying, we're over there bombing people, this is the CIA calls this blow back. And Rudy Giuliani being
like, you take that back. How dare you, how dare you
say this about America. It really is interesting. It's interesting how a
voice can come from nowhere that nobody thinks would resonate. All this stuff, you were
saying about targeting the audience earlier. But I bet you don't target the audience. I bet you do what Rick
Rubin does and it's like, do I love this? Is this awesome? Alright, let's do it. - Put it out. Yeah, put it out. That's my approach. And I think again, that's
what resonates with it though. That's what resonates with the audience and that people respond to that, people will gravitate towards that. You just gotta be honest man. You just gotta be real. I think the authenticity, man, is the easiest marketing ability. I don't care what you're
in, politics, business, whatever you're in,
definitely in this day and age because everything seems so fake. So it's a breath of fresh air. It costs you nothing to just be yourself. Even people might disagree
with it, but they're respect. I mean, people, you get people out, man, I'm not necessarily the
biggest fan of this position that Eric has but I love him. - So, you laid it out like, okay, there's nothing you want
the government to do, nothing, zero. Go away, shrink to the
size of the, what is it? Shrink to the size of a thimble, shrink small enough to drown
in a bathtub and then drown? - [Eric] Yeah. - You're there. You're there. - [Eric] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. - What has been the most
challenging argument to your position? Where do you honestly go? Whew, that is tough. - I'm gonna be honest, there isn't one, I'll give you one better. And that's what people know me
for, my great, my roads rant that I went on, that's
the most frustrating one to have to field because
everybody defaults to it for some- - Who's gonna do the roads? Who's going to roll flat concrete? - Yeah. - There's no way that the people that build the complex vehicles
could roll the concrete. - Yeah. So I will say that it's- - That's the stupidest response. - It is, it is. So I will say that there's
not one necessarily that I've hit that I was like, oh man, I think that's difficult either if I, and then that doesn't mean
that I have the answer to everything, it more than likely means someone else has entertained that. And that's the cool thing about liberty. It's funny about this whole roads thing. Walter Block has a massive, I don't know how many pages
that freaking essay is of him saying, okay, you wanted an answer, how we gonna do this? Bam. Here it is. And he breaks it down to a science, man. There's nothing to refute there. But it is such a, I would say that, that's the most frustrating,
it's the most frustrating one and it's often the default,
who built the roads? And it sucks. - I think it's two thirds
of the roads in Sweden are managed by private companies. - Yep, yep. - Something like that. How do we overcome, do you
think that we're in a time, you're a new media
entrepreneur, we're in this time that's really, really
interesting wen we think like, big picture, when we think about our kids, when we think about the
world, where it's like you can kind of customize your whole life of information flow. - [Eric] Yeah. - I can make my information
world whatever I want it to be. And some of that's amazing. A lot of it's amazing. I can learn about economics without having to have
some horrible professor that's teaching me Marxist nonsense. - [Eric] Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And then I have to
sit there and be like, this guy's an idiot, and now
I'm gonna go read on the side. It's like, no, I can do this all myself. But it is like we are in
a time where it's like, well, we're all reading different stuff. We're all going down
different echo chambers. Right? Do you think about that
as a philosophical person and as somebody who
cares about the future, do you worry that the
things that are exciting also have this sort of dark
feedback loop where like, what does truth even mean in 2024? - [Eric] Yeah. - What does it mean? - That's such a good question. I mean, for me, it's
like, I'll say this much, divisiveness doesn't bother
me as much as I think it does for other people. My issues that come with
it are when people think that it's proper to use
aggression upon people because they are not aligned with them on whatever topic, right? I'm okay with people gravitating
towards wherever they go, Like-minded individuals, groups
of people for that matter doesn't bother me. The issue is when you try to force that on every other individual and you feel like that is
the righteous position. This is why I feel our
political philosophy is, not I feel, I know it
is the only moral one because it's the only one
that allows you to do that. - Yeah. You wanna create a
communist commune in Texas, you can do that. - [Eric] You can do that. - You can't create a mini
Texas in North Korea. - Bingo. Right. We will allow them to
what they want to do. They won't allow us to
do what we want to do. So we have the moral position. So that's why I say about what, that's also my approach, again, with the whole divisiveness thing. It's not something that
I fear or anything. I'm okay with people, again,
finding those pockets, places, and theories, and ideas, whatever. I'm okay with that. The difficult thing is trying
to get people to understand, okay, I'll embrace your
uniqueness or whatever it is, world it is that you want to see. How do I convince that person to keep that within a voluntary
means, is the conversation that I think we should be
having less about what? And more about, okay, can
you keep that to other people that agrees to you? Or is it gonna bleed out? Which is what most people want, where it's enforced upon everybody else because they feel they have
the righteous or juxtaposition. I think that's where it gets dangerous. That's where the conflict happens. I would argue that this whole forceful
integrationist approach got us in a lot of issues, right? - You mean in terms of this
post-civil rights of the- - Not necessarily. Well, that was a problem. - When you say integrationist,
whatcha talking about? - Yeah. When I say integrationist, I'm talking about of general ideas. I wasn't even talking about
on the racialist issues. But that can be something Brother Malcolm X talked
about this all the time. You know what I mean? About how, look, we just
want to do our own thing, just stay out of our way. That's all that we're asking. I mean, that's something that, that same argument
what's happening that's, look, I don't wanna go on a rabbit hole, or a tangent on this show, but there's a big
difference between Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr's view of things just like it, that same
debate was happening between W.E.B. Du Bois
and Booker T. Washington, where one was more get outta my way and let me do things, right? But what it is that I'm saying,
and why I brought that up is that a lot of conflicts happens because we've seen this all throughout, not just American history,
but just history in general, where you force these people who are diametrically opposed culturally to be with each other. And it creates violence. It creates a lot of turmoil,
it creates uncertainty, and the geographical area is unstable. So that's why I don't
lean towards that way of trying to get everyone
on the same page. It's more, I'm okay with
you being on the page it is that you on, just limit it to your bubble. That's it. That's all I require of you, is just to limit it to that and don't feel like you have to force, and you can, or you're righteous to try to force someone
else to be a part of that. That's where it becomes a core problem. - It is interesting, 'cause America how do you think about, we call this show, "Dad Saves America" 'cause even
though I'm very sympathetic to everything you're saying, I more or less see myself
that way philosophically. But I do love what America stands for, what our principles are. - [Eric] I agree. Absolutely. - I think they're incredibly radical. I think you could even
say that Thomas Jefferson was pretty close to an
anarcho-capitalist philosophically. - Read the Declaration of Independence, that's what I tell people all the time. - It is. I interviewed Gordon Wood,
his this famous historian and he's like, the way he put it was, you have to understand
something about that time, the British were the
most radical in Europe with the Magna Carta and
radically individualistically, liberty-oriented. And the Americans were so radical that they were the
radicals of the radicals. - [Eric] Yeah. - And so I love that. It's like enlightenment brought to life. You're nodding, how do
you think about America? How do you think about, as someone who's like, the state shouldn't exist. Well, that would mean technically
America as a government wouldn't exist. - [Eric] But the culture
could still exist. - Yeah, so how do you think about that? - That's the way I feel about
it, the way I look at it, I look less about the government setup and more about those set
of principles, right? I say this, I'm talking
about Texas, right? I believe Texas, especially,
as a geographical area, has its own kind of unique, it's why I want to live
and die here, right? I love being in Texas because there's no other place like it, it's a set of traits and attributes that is vastly different. But to your point, regarding America, I'm right there with you. I mean, think about it. The core tenets or the
principles or the concepts that we think of Americanism
that you're talking about are almost identical to
what libertarianism is and what it upholds. - [John] Yeah. - Right? I don't have any issue with
that as a culture by any means. I think it's something
worth being abrasive. I don't get bent outta shape when people talk about that, like, oh, they love their either state or they love their country anymore. So I'm like, I ain't got
no problem with that. I have no problem with that
'cause I'm right there with you. It's about those concepts though. That's what we're leading with. It's about those principles,
those actual principles that come, what it
means to be an American. Why, again, we talked about
it earlier, liberty is, so entertained of a concept. There's all these documents
and they continue to use that as an important word, it's
part of their vocabulary. I'm all for it. I'm all for that. - [John] Are you an
optimist or a pessimist? - Optimist. - [John] Why? - I'm white pill all day long because I'm a living,
breathing example of change. Not just from where I came
from, we talked about, and we entertained some
of that stuff here, but even when I look at what
we did with the Rippaverse, this was not supposed to happen. They said this was not supposed to happen. People trying to talk me off the ledge, you shouldn't do this. Why are you doing everything
on your own website? People won't ever gravitate
towards these new characters. Comic books are dead. All this other stuff. And here we are, multimillion dollars. Actually, we're on our third
million-dollar campaign right now with Alphacore,
which says a lot. And I'm not saying that, that means that that's the entire landscape of America. I'm saying it's just an example of it. I ain't the only success
out there by any means. I'm just living it. Right? So I'm an optimist because
I've had the opportunity to get out there and speak with people. That's why I love to do these
events it is that we do, whether it be the Cons that we go to where I get to look fans and supporters in the
eyes and they get to say, hey, man, I read this, it changed my life. Or I saw this, heard you talk about this. It got me through X, Y, and Z. This is real stories from real people. And that's why I'm a big, big,
big, I'm a massive optimist. I don't even like being around people that are doom and gloom. That's not my thing. It's not my thing. It's the energy that I
don't want around me. I'm like, again, it goes to what we were
talking about earlier. We talk about this individualistic stuff. we gotta be able to
change the world that we, to be in the view that we want it to be. You know what I mean? Or whatever views it is that we have. We want that. And we have to do the work
to make that thing happen. It's not gonna happen overnight. It's gonna require a lot of work. And I'm okay with that. - My son early in seventh grade, he read "Man's Search for
Meaning" by Viktor Frankl. He's a psychologist that
went through the Holocaust, it's a very difficult book, 'cause half of it is about his experience in all of the worst concentration camps. And then the second half is the psychology of how to survive that. - [Eric] Yeah. - And he quotes someone, this is the core of the book that, and this has become a mantra,
and you've already said it, that the last human freedom
is our freedom no matter what, even in Auschwitz to decide how we respond to our circumstances. - That's it. - And this show, I'd
even say my philosophy has become in a sense, recognizing that. - [Eric] I love that. - Because I don't think
it's the last human freedom. I think it's the first. - [Eric] I love that. - That's what you're saying. You're saying like, no, I
don't care what's going on. I can choose to be optimistic. I can choose to say, hey,
Marvel's become woke nonsense, and splintering the universes, and becoming an incongruous
discontinuous nightmare. I'm gonna make my own universe. - Yeah. - And just do it. - Yeah. - There's nothing more American than that. - You're completely correct. And again, it's a reason to be optimistic. And I hope if nothing
else, what people take from what it is that we've discussed here and what it is that,
I'm sure we talk about in our own individual
lives with other people is exactly that. It's that look, man, set of circumstances, are the set of circumstances, and we gotta make the most of that, and it's not gonna fall in our laps. It's one of those things
that's gonna require movement. It's gonna require us going out there and actually doing something about it. And that's the way I want people to think. I want people to think
less, everything sucks and it'll never get
better, and more, okay, set of circumstances are just that. So now what? Are you going to kind of tuck your tail and just say, oh, it is what it is. Are you going to use the
bodily autonomy it is, that minimum you have,
to be part of the change in the direction at minimum that you want to, again, manifest. It's a very individualistic approach. But I found that having that
it makes everything easier. And, you start to see
the positivity of it all and the progress of it
all in various avenues when you look at it through that lens. - Let's talk a little
bit before we wrap up about your circumstances. So your family life, your
background, you've alluded to it, but we didn't get into it
and I don't know your story. So yeah, paint that picture for me. What was your childhood like? What was your family situation? - I mean, I was a knucklehead,
so for lack of better terms, I was a knucklehead, I
grew up gang-banging. I grew up doing a lot
of just absolute foolery that could have ruined my life. And I did see it ruin the
lives of many, many people. - How'd you get sucked into that? - Involvement? Right. You're around all of this
and the old cliches of like, ah, you want a sense of
belonging and all this, so you get pulled into doing dumb stuff. And I don't want to give
myself too much credit, I just think I was just
stupid, like for real. I was an aggressively stupid
human being during those times. - [John] I think all teenage boys are. - That's kinda what happened. - [John] By design. - It's kind of part of our, and it just shows in different ways right? - We're built for most
likely being sent off to die fighting the other idiots. - [Eric] Yeah. - With the other tribe. - That's about how it works. But that's how it was for me. Right. Single-parent household. My mother and father actually
were together when I was born and they split. And that kind of just changed everything, went from being in the house
to being in an apartment off Camp Wisdom in Dallas, Texas. And, I was a knucklehead. I was a prime knucklehead
doing dumb stuff. Saw a lot of stupid stuff
happen, unfortunate things, homies die, being a part of stupid wars, and all this stuff. And it was just foolery. - Did you get full into, I was saying before we were rolling
that we had Anton Lucky, who's in Dallas, and he
started the Bloods in Dallas. - That's what I was
banging, ironically enough. You know what I mean? And it's like, looking at South
Dallas, I'm from Oak Cliff. Right. You know what I mean? And that's just what everybody
was doing during the time. And to be fair, it was
less colors, it was more, when I was coming up,
it was more territorial. It was like, that's how stupid it was. You could be claiming the
same colors as somebody, but they from this side
of the hood versus yours. And now y'all beefing, for what? That's how stupid it was. This is why I don't like
to do the sob story thing. I was just young and I
was just impressionable. I was stupid. Let's just call it what it
was, dumb, is what it was. Looking back at it, I'm like, that was the dumbest thing that I did, drove my mother up a
wall though she, again, as she was able to deal with it. But I drove her up a wall. I knew I did, I made
life way harder for her than what I ever should have. And I made life harder
for the people around me. And, thankfully I got it out of it. And what did it for me? - I was just gonna ask,
how did you escape that? - What did it for me was
someone that I was with at the time, there was a
group of cats that were, it wasn't nothing, when I say
I was insane, I was insane. It wasn't nothing for me
to go to a group of people and just wanna fight. I don't care how many of you
is, I know I'm getting jumped, it's 10 of y'all, we going duke it out. That's how crazy, I was a nut. But having someone around me that had absolutely
nothing to do with that and then putting them in jeopardy, it let off a switch in me. Like, wait a minute. - Was this a girlfriend? - Yes, It was a girlfriend at the time. Right. And that was when it clicked for me. Like, wait a minute, this
isn't just impacting me. Somebody else could get hurt. - Do you feel like that was that innate male protector
thing clicking in? - Yeah, for sure. - [John] Because that's
like, why would that matter? - Yeah. - [John] You're with your
friends and they all- - That's exactly what it is. It's like, it hit a switch in me and I was like, wait a minute,
wait a minute, wait a minute. It's one thing for me to get jumped. It's another thing for someone else that has absolutely
nothing to do with anything that's going on to now be a part of this. And it was like, I can't be doing this. And getting away from Dallas
was really good for me. Thankfully, I was a hell of an athlete. That was my ticket out, going
to University of Memphis right outta college, excuse
me, right outta high school, on a track and field scholarship. Obviously, I ended up
finishing my track career at Texas A&M University-Corpus Christi. But it was good for me. It was good. I mean, I was kind of phasing
myself out of it anyway during that age, but- - [John] That broke it. - Yeah. But that for sure I needed
to get away and for sure, once I was out, I was out. So it's like, yeah, it was
such a stupid thing, man. And I do try to use
platform it is that I have, I talk about it a lot just to
tell people how just idiotic and stupid that it was,
that I was doing it, and it could have ended another way. It could have ended another way. And for a lot of people
that did what I did, that's the way that it
ended in another way. They didn't get the
opportunity that I got. - Do you have something
that when you meet a kid and you know they're doing
nonsense, they're in gang stuff, they're in crime, what do you say to them? - If I could talk to, and
I've had my opportunities to at least discuss with some cats that are at least doing goofy stuff, even if it's not directly gang related, just doing stupid stuff. If I can pull them aside
and chat with them, I will, because when you're young,
you mentioned being a teenager and how rebellious you
are and all that stuff, but you think that you're
gonna live forever. You think that you're invincible. You think that nothing's
ever gonna happen to you and that's just not the case, right? That's just not the reality. The reality is something can happen to you and in some cases to
the point of no return. So I try to talk with folks and when I do get that opportunity and just explain it from that perspective. I've been there, done that with them. So I'm from the game. It ain't much you could tell me about, well, you don't know my, nah,
I've been there, done that. But it's more of you need to understand that you need to get in step because you're not gonna live forever. And making those sort of mistakes that people are unfortunately are making. It's one or two ways
often, dead or in jail, which one you want? And I don't want that and I
don't wish that upon anybody. So when I do get the opportunity, that's sort of my perspective. It's just get off this goofy stuff, man. - And then you hand them
a Thomas Sowell book. - Yeah. That's what did it for me. If I can get him to read Thomas Sowell, that'll change anybody. Changed my life. So hopefully, for a lot
of people like, hey man, you wanna know about some economy? Go look up this. Go read "Economic Facts and Fallacies". Or what's that other one
that "White Liberals" are really good, "White
Liberals" or was it "Black Red"? - And rednecks. - [Eric] "Black Rednecks
and White Liberals". Yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - [Eric] That's a good one. - It's like you think
this is your culture. This isn't even, this is some old weird. - [Eric] Yeah. - Scottish nonsense, imported. - Yep, exactly. So yeah, go read that. Maybe you're getting stepped in. There you go. - You've mentioned a
couple times in passing in this conversation faith or God, Jesus. - Yeah. - Were those offhanded comments or do you have a religious
part of your life? - Oh, a hundred percent, man. Me being Christian and we
talked about it earlier, me being kind of a, having
those set of guiding principles instead of morals is
obviously very important to me became way more important
just understanding the just, for me- - Where'd you get that? Were you raised Christian from your mom? - Yeah, I was raised Christian, but it doesn't really set
in until, for me at least, until I was an adult, obviously, I got outta doing all the nonsense and it's like, there's gotta
be something else at play here. And there's gotta be
another sense of meaning, of purpose for me to get the
chances and opportunities it is that I have. So my journey was not meant to end doing the gang-banging stuff or doing any of the other creative stuff. I got a sense of purpose here
and there's somebody there that's guiding me in that direction. It's hard to believe otherwise, just considering my own experience. That's the way that I see it. - There's a lot of young
people that seem like they are, there's a God-shaped hole in their heart or they don't have that sense of purpose, when it comes to brass tacks, is that the place you feel
is the best place to start find faith? - Absolutely. I would recommend that for anybody. I mean before the soul and all that stuff, get right with God, man, just read. I mean just pick up a
Bible and just read it. Just start at Genesis,
just read it, straight up, just read it right. - Greatest story ever told. - Yeah, just read it, man. And I think that will do
a lot for these people, these broken, there's a lot. I mean, I hate to see it, man, especially, with these young people, you probably feel it more than, definitely with you being a dad. I haven't got there yet,
but just how grim, and dark, and ugly, man, it can be. And I look at like, where
is that sense of optimism for the youth, right? - [John] Yeah. - And, maybe again that's what's necessary is instilling some sort of
understanding with God in them will help because I don't
think that it's an accident that as people trend opposite of God, you've also seen a whole lot of issues that have increased over
this past generation, particularly mental health-wise. And I think that's because you've seen them
stray further away from them. - I don't think it's a coincidence that all the worst dictatorships
in the 20th century were all explicitly
godless, the Soviets, Mao, all these Marxists sort of
hellholes, they were all like, no, kill God first, that way
you're all a bunch of sheep that I can grind. - All of it, all of it. I believe that's a hundred percent true. That's what they want to sort of work out because they do understand
that that comes with, optimism comes with that good, comes with that and doing
great things comes with that. And you can see where that
can get in the way of people that wanna do very, very bad
things to innocent people. - Do you think, we've
talked about race and stuff, and we've talked about your
upbringing, anecdotally, it feels to me like there's
a transformation taking place among black Americans that are becoming, and I'm really going on a limb here because I'm making some generalizations that are probably a bunch of nonsense, but it does feel like there
is an awakening towards, hey, there's a lot of other
ways to think about politics like you've experienced,
your experience is actually a prototype that's going
on out there in the world, I imagine from your
platform that you probably, you're in a better position
than I am to hear people say, Eric, your life that you're,
what you've shared with me, I've had this experience,
tell me about this, what have you observed? - Absolutely. Look, that is the honest to God's truth. People are, particularly
young, black people, are understanding that
there's other options, right? We kind of, for a while there, there was this hive-minded thinking and it just, if you
were black, you had to, especially in a political
realm, think a certain way. And that was just accepted. - Current president said it
in really raw, horrible terms. - [Eric] Yeah, he literally said it. He literally said it. - You don't vote for me, you ain't black. - Yeah, that's what he said. - And of course, he throws in the ain't because it's that whole- - Yeah, he's got code switch. - I gotta do that. I gotta do that stuff. - Hot sauce in the purse. Yeah. - The affect, add the affect. - Yeah, of course, of course. But, no, yes, I do believe
that now more than ever, you're starting to see
people, definitely publicly, start to push back against some of these mainstream narratives. And at least, for a while there they weren't even thinking twice about it. And now it's at least
seeming there are people that are saying, okay, there
has to be something else. Because for one it's not working. Let's start there. It's not working. But I think just seeing, be it my story, seeing the stories of other
people or letting people know that, look, there is another option, there are other ways to think that will be better for your own culture and yourself as well. So in my experience, yes, and
that's part of the reason, again, going back to over
we talking white pill, man, I'm all about optimism. I'm seeing it, we're all seeing it. - Last question, I ask this of everybody, we're called "Dad Saves America"
and I think you're a hero for young people that to come
from where you're coming from and the story you've told
to where you are now, building an empire, building
literally a universe. You're building a universe. What do you see as your
role in the American story? - Well, if I can just limit
it to one word, create. I think that coming up with
original ideas is why I am here and watching that manifest
in whatever way that may be. Whether it be offering
my position on something, whether it be making music, whether it be making comic books. I believe that God put me
on this earth to create. And the fact that I've been
rewarded in ways that I, blessed in ways that I just
would've never imagined. And every time it was when I was creating, every single time I benefited
the most, when I said, hey, let's make something
for the people to see. Make something for the people to watch, for the people to read,
for the people to view, whatever it is. So for me, I think that's what it's about. It's about creating. And when I'm off of this earth, I would think that a lot of people are gonna take away from it that he was an absolute workhorse that was always coming up with new ideas. And he was trying to do
his best to be a part of whatever solution to the
world that he thought up. And I worked extremely hard. So my, again, limiting it to one word, I would say to create,
that's what I'm here for. - Eric, thank you of being
on "Dad Saves America", - I appreciate you so much, bro. - It's been a great conversation. - This has been fun. This has been fun. Hopefully, we can do it again soon. - Next time we can get
into heavy metal music, which you'll have to school me on. - I'll do that. I'm game. I'm a hundred percent game for that. Let's do it. - Let's do it. (upbeat music)
