Collets ---- Types, Pros, Cons and General info. Take a Look !

they guys drove by here to advance innovations welcome back to the shop and welcome to all the new subscribers as well it seems that I have quite subtraction here I do appreciate that very much I want to give a quick little shout out through short River machine I got a boring bar from these guys when I was at the bash this year and it stands in Cassidy's place use it the other day really beat on it it performed very well it was real rigid and I was quite happy with it so thank you guys for the handout got it on an airplane too by the way that was quite surprised they let you take that on the airplane with the carbide tip in it once I told the guy what it was right no problem anyway today's video is about comets now I've had a quite a few comments online and offline about guys that have lathe that bought in with chucks face plates whatever the don't have college and geo want to convert over to college it's going to be an expensive thing to do and what collet do I select well it doesn't really have to be expensive it can be expensive if you buy top-quality and when it comes to college you're probably looking for concentricity and quality so it may sting a little bit when you buy now if I had to pick any color for an engine lathe that I prefer over any other brand it would have to be hard each brand these pallets are a little bit more expensive I think you're going to find when you go looking into catalog that that's back but you get what you pay for and buy nice or buy twice and ultimately if you have to buy another one because the first one you got was garbage then you probably spent more than a quality color in the first place then walking out to the shop I'm going to show you a half a dozen different colored styles that I have pros and cons of each one what you could probably do to set your machine up with counts and what to expect performance wise if you go outside the design intent of each one so let's take a walk out and show you the ones on the bench show you a couple of different kinds one that I made and design it works quite well and hope you get something from us they want okay guys as most of you probably know by now let's have a variety of different types of Chuck attachment nose cones and my particular machine is set up for camps three camps I've seen them with four I've seen them with six I've seen them threaded I've seen them keyed and threaded there's a bunch of different kinds but the one thing they're all going to have in common is some type of internal taper right here usually for driving a live Center if you do not have Kaulitz in your machine well the first thing you're going to need is a nose piece and you're going to need a drawbar and an indexer that goes all the way through now on the backside of your spindle this is a 13 40 Clausing Colchester great machine I love it this particular unit here goes through the back housing and is secured with set screws on the backside of the spindle now some spindles extend this far and they're threaded on the inside and this whole piece here screws on these little screws right here are to establish concentricity of this particular wheel because if this thing is running out as the machine runs the shake that you're going to get in your handle out here is absolutely annoying and unnecessary so if your handle shaking and you do have a call it set up true this up you can throw it up with the ID indicator on the ID or just go across the outside but move slowly because the indicator is going to bounce quite a bit this is the nose piece for the college set up for a 5c collet set up and on the inside of this when there is a key so that the collet doesn't spin when it comes time to tighten it down the assembly is rather easy taper lock and if you know the inside taper of your spindle and the outside taper of your collet that you select making one of these should not be a problem I don't see any reason why you'd have to buy one of those if you're on a budget this is the closer set up and most of these closers consist of the closure mechanism itself and the draw tube somewhere in the body of your draw tube your go to find the nikon camera strap you're going to find a parting line right there so it is a universal closer the diameter will match the ID here and then the length of the tube will be determined by the length of your spindle so if you're ordering one of these out of a catalog that's what they're going to be looking for they may give you a standard to work from which would be this and then you develop the size of the bar that you need based on the dimensions that you get it's hard to do this with one hand there you go we are ready to rock once you thread the collet in there the indexing wheel in the back has a lock on it so that you can maintain the exact same pressure each time pressure is dialed in by making it tighter or loosening the wheel in the rear let's take a look at a couple of different kinds of counts give me a second to put this on a tripod so we can stop the movement and we'll get back to you let's start with one that you've probably never seen this is one that was designed by me a couple years ago this is what I call a crown collet and you'll see why I call it a crown colony looks like a little crown one of the benefits to a style like this and this was used in a milling machine fixed to a fixture plate very tight tolerance because this was holding a poly part and we could not have the part migrated down into the collet so the recess that you see in the mess center here the aluminum is the actual stop the OD of that particular stop that this spins on is the minimum diameter that this could close to we did not want it to start the part the cap itself has the closure feature on the inside so it's tapered and the stroke of the close was regulated by the cap itself as an internal stop so it would only go down so far and once you torqued it that's it it squeezes down brass comes in contact with the aluminum the crown closes into the minor diameter the part registers on the backside like the stop here so there is no migration of the part into the fixture and all the work was done on the top that can't be very specific because it's probably proprietary information and I'd rather not violate that but that's what I call a crown collet and I've used this several times this particular concept and it works quite well if you have a delicate part or a part that really needs to be controlled feature-wise this is the way to go hey let's look at some of the others let's take a look at some of the most common Kaulitz you're gonna find in a machine shop at least in my machine shop if you're running a lathe you've got to be very familiar with this guy right here this is a 5c collet it is only split from one side normally split three ways and that means that it acts like a hinge back here and in a little while I'm going to post an animation and show you why this may not be ideal for heavy load applications it has an internal thread on one end you can set a stop and as the stock size varies this will go further into the receiving taper adaptor that will be on your machine so if you haven't watched the video that I posted called great setups crappy results and the reasons why take a look at that video it's going to open your eyes to a couple of problems you may have with collets like this these are available incrementally in 1/64 increments starting I believe at 164 going all the way to about an inch and an eighth but as you get into the larger sizes the amount of penetration you get on the collet gets smaller because you are restricted with the inner diameter of the rear so comfortably you can pass one-inch material through this and through your drawbar if your spindle is large enough ok 5c collet nothing special you're going to find these on most mills this is an r8 style collet and if you were to adapt something like this to a lathe with a block or a piece of stock or whatever you want to make please realize that these are pulled with a solid drawbar whereby the 5c collet is a hollow tube which allows for much longer stock to go through it I mean up to 12 14 feet whatever you want to put through it you can put through a 5 C an r8 style collet like this as a solid drawbar and would restrict you to the depth of penetration for whatever material you put into it these are available in 1/8 increments and also split only from one side these are er series Kaulitz most commonly found on milling machines and I have to say that these college probably have a greater grip range than a 5c collet or an r8 collet because they're split from both sides as you can see that the splits in the face of the collet are also present on the rear of the collet so when this collet closes the entire body of this College shrinks down uniformly retaining the cylindrical footprint of the through bore so you're not going to have tangental contact with something like this if you use it on a bigger than intended part or a smaller than intended part this is an ER thirty-two size and these are good I believe up to three-quarters or seven-eighths of an inch you can put into an ER thirty-two if I'm wrong on that somebody please correct me and this is an ER 16 now the body size or the number of the ER 32 whatever and the bigger the number gets the larger the through-hole capacity gets it has no bearing whatsoever on how small you can get because these columns hold exactly the same size diameter but you can see this one is concerned larger if you're going to make a collet Chuck if I was going to make a collet Chuck for my machine something quick and dirty I would probably use an ER series collet because it's a lot stronger and alls I would have to buy and there's a reason for this would be the collet nut itself an ER series collet nut has a feature on the inside that grabs the ER series collet and that's because the ER series collet is not pulled from behind down into the holder like an r8 or a 5c collet it's pushed into the taper by the cap so when you unloosen the cap and I know when you loosen up the cap with the spanner wrench or pins or however you're going to drive it the collet itself would have a tendency to want to stay jammed down in the taper so these call-outs incorporate a draw feature that will pull the collet out of the taper and relax the grip on whatever you've put in there in the same way it works the exact same way for the small ones this is a collet nut for the sixteen and they snap in which makes these a little bit harder to expand beyond the size range that they've called out but as far as squishing these things down and grabbing the part you can collapse these things all the way till there's no slots whatsoever and they'll still stay round these are fantastic little Kaulitz so as far as buying something to set up a college system in your machine if you're not going to buy a taper adapter for your spindle and add a quick change or a draw tube drawbar tube just buy one of these get this thread specs and make yourself a block that this fits right down into screw it on boom you're golden buy these as you need them and you get more size range out of these two you get about it I would say you could probably squeeze thirty thousand or differences on a five or on an ER series collet 32:16 they work very well I've never seen one of these in a tool holder and this is the tool holder for the CNC and to get a little off track there but there's a reason for it you could if you made something like this for your lathe you wouldn't have to have all this fancy stuff on it could be completely syndrich or you could have an internal thread where you thread something down block it in from the side and when you put your collet in your material would bump against that solid stop and regardless of what happens to your collet the collet will migrate as this as the collet tries to tighten up on your material but the part itself is not going to migrate into the block because the stop is on the collet block and not the collet that would be one of the drawbacks to the 5c style collet as the collet grips down and slides in the stop goes with it so if the stop goes with it and this is your zero plane as the collet moves the part was going to change in its length sometimes longer sometimes shorter depends on the OD okay you're serious super strong much greater grip range between them if you're going to make any investment at all I would say buy the cap make everything else that would be dirt-cheap buy these as you need them do not buy these size-specific if you can buy the ones that come in a range it'll tell you you know 140 to 115 or 780 to 680 see if you can find the ones that come in a range you'll probably spend a whole lot less money and be able to squeeze a lot more stock watch out for the through-hole size no your application on the jobs that you're gonna do know how long the parts are that you're gonna work with know your budget this will help okay let's look at the animation I'll show you why these are so much stronger than the 5c and the r8 what we have here is a wooden cross section of how any college system is going to work this would be the nose cone taper whether it's a pallet chuck whether it's the nose cone spindle nose cone for your machine this is the cross section of the collet this is the material with the collet like this which is pivoting about the back solid in the back solid in the back it's only split part of the way down like a 5c or an r8 collet you can see that the performance of that particular collet under nominal ideal conditions will be congruent on the taper and along the material OD completely along the material OD this assures that the material doesn't flop around now these types of Kaulitz are designed specifically for nominal size material and cutter shanks so let's put something in there that's not this is not a half inch but let's call this a half inch blank let's knock this out and put in something a little bit smaller I'm gonna show you that it's a little bit smaller okay let's call this 492 just because that's halfway between the 164th incremental college size you would get put it in there you're putting your material up in your stock rack and say hey this material fits in this collet okay let's stick it in there and close it as you close it you can see all kinds of interesting things happen here the geometry intended to be congruent on the outside of both sides is out the window you have gaps up in the nose you have gaps in the rear and you have wiggle in your material because it's only held at the tip this is if you put a smaller material in a nominal size collet okay one more time squeeze it down let's take it out and squeeze it down and see how it really reacts you can see what's happening there you can see the taper and it's just nothing good is gonna come from this let's put bigger material in I'll put the half-inch back in there bring it down to congruent show you that is congruent let's take a bigger piece not much bigger nonetheless you're looking for material you say let's just stuff it down inside this collar right here the laws you stick it down in there now you have completely opposite what you just had the collet hits on the outside and the material hits on the inside also not good this is going to cause a taper in your part that's going to cause chatter it's going to cause all kinds of problems and you're not going to know why if I had to say okay we don't have a collet for that particular size like this right here wrap your part with paper wrap it with stainless steel foil wrap it with aluminum foil anything that you can measure and make sure that it gets close and then when it comes together it's going to come together and perform like you want it to one benefit only one benefit to using a collet that is too big let's do a smaller material using a collet that is too big for a piece that's bent let's say you have a six inch long ride that you've already choked up on it in the machine pop the center drill in it and you extend it all the way out close it again and it's wiggling it's not going to go straight because the collet if you're using a nominal size collet it's going to hold it straight and the end of your material is just going to whip by using the next size up when you close that collet on that material it's going to hold at the very front and allow the back to move a little bit so you can bump it until your Center is running true take a very light cut until the next nominal size collet then reverse your material and the next nominal size collet and squeeze it like you should so there's a time and a place to cheat with college of different sizes but the 5 C Series style collet and the r8 size Kaulitz are designed specifically for ideal nominal conditions of stock size and cutter diameters there you go okay let's put the ER series collet style in here which closes front and rear and look at the difference with the collet being split in the rear and the front very much like these guys here like I showed you before these are split eight ways from the front and eight ways from the back there is a much greater grip range on the collet like this than the standard 5c or the r8 and this is why because when they move they move parallel the front and back can close at the same time so it doesn't matter if it's the half inch nominal size that it's intended for or bigger size for the smaller size there you go it's always going to be congruent because it's moving along a wedge configuration you're not getting any of this because there's a hinge thing going on it's hinging but it's hinging in the front and back at the same time therefore it closes parallel alright guys well for what you've seen I guess you could probably decide on what type of collar would best suit your application and no reason that you can't make an adapter if you're within the ER family if you have an ER college series or a New York College sized call it Chuck that's a larger size no reason you can't make an adapter for the smaller sizes as well but know exactly what's going to happen when they start to move in my grade based on the diameter that you're holding anyway I hope you got something out of that there's a lot of different kinds of different sizes some are stronger than others back that's why milling machines use ER series and on a 5c or back type of style anyway hope you liked it hope you got something out of it leave me a question comment thumbs up if you like put yourself until prime man's innovation is Austin Texas about you

Channel: Joe Pie

Views: 158,806

Keywords: joe pie, joe pieczynski, advanced innovations, advanced innovations llc, shop tricks, shop hacks, machining, machine shop, how to machine, 5c, r8, er, collets, lathe, lathe collets, collet selection, collet conversion, about collets, collet mechanics, how do collets work

Id: 7ENSGgeiOVI

Length: 21min 27sec (1287 seconds)

Published: Sat Aug 04 2018