Cleared Hot Episode 170 - Wil Willis

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listeners of the podcast 10 off your first month at betterhelp.com cleared hot my guest today is will willis you might recognize that name and the face if you watch the podcast on youtube from his work on television perhaps america's greatest rifle or special ops mission or most recently as the host of forged in fire but let me tell you right now there's a hell of a lot more to will than just that prior to even getting into the entertainment industry he served in the military first as an army ranger and then he transitioned to become an air force pj or para rescue jumper he's actually the only person that i know of that has made that transition from ranger to the air force and he explains why in the episode so i will not uh attempt to speak for him but all i can say is i was really looking forward to meeting and sitting down with will and he exceeded all of my expectations he is an awesome individual fascinating background and experience and with that i will shut up and let you enjoy episode number 170 with will willis now oh it could be the best start of a podcast ever yeah yeah yeah only one time just to know yeah just enough that is true how are you gonna know unless it's like a brussels sprout think about it you just suck on it a little bit if you really like it nibble it with your teeth and then uh swallow it why would you suck on a brussels sprout my dad used to boil the [ __ ] out of a man and i hated him i would cheek him and spit him out i could buy that i'd suck all the juice out cheek the brussels sprout like the the the the actual roughage and then i would spit it out when i left the dinner table they were terrible i used to hide spaghetti on the support beams underneath our table that's awesome yeah and well until the dogs got onto it and then my parents were wondering why the dogs wouldn't leave the table alone then they got under the table and then my career and crime came to an end at a young age my brother had a spanish rice incident where he uh took spanish rice-a-roni he literally put it on the floor thinking the dog would eat it the dog didn't reject it there were five of us but only one person you could blame that's where he was sitting yeah and my stepmother served it to him for breakfast it was disgusting in the modern day i think there might be legal ramifications for doing that but i can as a parent support that 100 you know i i can agree with the illusion that that's what you're gonna get for breakfast but they actually physically shove it down the kid's freaking throat that's where i think the legal ramifications might come in wow you're uh i'm jealous of your hair it's well out of regs uh you know it's glorious not in a year i haven't i haven't gotten a haircut in a year yeah and been quarantined i'm tempted to go back down that path too i had almost four years when i was in where we were on relaxed standards and it was amazing well below the shoulder blades flowing i could not i couldn't grow beard to save my life i could go undercover in an amish community or like impersonate abe lincoln but that's about it when it comes to a beard but that hair i miss it you know some you're surprised at how much how much hatred you can get you know with having long hair man it's like the bald community comes out against you yeah like there's always somebody like that balds versus the freaky yeah the hair guys and then like get a haircut hippie and i'm like nah i'm not gonna do that i miss it but i started doing uh jiu jitsu a couple years ago and it's not awesome for that yeah yeah it gets in the way it collects sweat and often times people will use it as like a door handle yeah yeah that's where cornrows come into play i'll cornrow my hair i don't care man like god here's a i i was working for a guy in navy seal who thought he was gonna use my hair as a hand hold when we were tussling in the yard one day and uh yeah i got strong roots baby like you grab on to it all day i don't care if once you if you're grabbing here that means you're opened up someplace else and he felt that you were yeah i mean if he's got both hands on your hair yeah at least you know where they are yeah well that means i'm going to punch him in the nuts so you just came from south carolina you said right yeah i got invited to um the soronex winter strong event um i love bert by the way he and i have passed crossed paths many times couple times at shot show a couple times uh through my buddy john welborn through the strength and conditioning world he's awesome dude he's one of the most uplifting individuals i've ever had the pleasure of listening to sp to speak you know he really talks a lot about community about working together to achieve common goals you know to help other people with their goals and uh you know i didn't know if i if i because i didn't know what i was getting into i got invited by way of neil camera who was invited by way of jason knight or you know the knife making community bird had invited him and it really is kind of like it's all about who you know you know what i mean and burke called me up and he asked me if i'd like to come out after talking to neil and i said sure i was like i'd love to come out and check it out but i think the week leading up to it i hadn't really gone out and socialized with anybody you know i have an end of the driveway policy if it's not important i'm not leaving the end of the driveway so is this a new policy no well since since flash was born you know back last march it seemed like flash was born covid hit it was the timing you know was amazing because i've been able to spend every day every day up until this weekend at home with my son and my wife you know working on our personal projects and and uh what a different experience compared to my older two kids and and the way that things were back then i can't say i've ever been able to do that yeah my kids are older now too and like we're talking about in the car you know divorce and custody limits the amount of time you can have and honestly at 17 15 and 12. let's just say the time with their dad may not be the apex of their priority list given the social circle so that's awesome that you were uh were able to be there yeah yeah and and you know it's a blessing and a curse you know i mean certain things have to occur for me to have that kind of time available but uh but uh you know mostly i just focus on the blessing part of it you know just just and and if you don't learn to do that i think especially as a veteran you can kind of you know go into some dark places but back to the bert soren thing yes i have many questions because i've never been and how long has he how long has he been doing it for do you know i think just a couple of years okay now he does a summer strong event it's a little bit bigger and and there's a lot more attendance but this was a really small event a good mix of veterans athletes different personalities uh i met some guys that were just straight construction guys out of colorado just really good individuals and you know you get kind of put into this environment where you just meet and talk to people who are kind of like-minded individuals you know i mean they're all about the outdoors they're all about you know fitness and doing things and and you know just kind of this energy uh gets generated and you don't know what it is but it feels good and i remember telling bert like the first morning that i woke up i walked down to his pond and there's an alligator in the pond and i'm like is that a real alligator i am i am in south carolina and they have alligators and i'm like is bert the kind of guy that would buy an alligator and put it in his pond yes he is and then i realized it was just a target my side isn't what it used to be but uh and then first thing in the morning there's guys down there shooting arrows at this target you know trying to so you can hit closest to the dot and i haven't been in that kind of competitive environment in a long long time and i was like well that's cool man reignited the fire yeah yeah and and i wasn't going to do any of the competition stuff i was like i'm going to stay away from that stuff you know i'm 40 something years old leave that for the young guys and then when it came time to compete i found myself kind of like i want to play and and the way that they did it was straight up grade school like i was down to like the last four to be picked up what kind of a competition were they doing you know it was it was a little bit of a run uh run lift shoot competition is what i would call it run lift shoot um a little bit of a run you had different stations where you have to do lifts with kettlebells and and stuff like that and i was a personal trainer at equinox uh for a while so i i got good fundamentals yeah and uh but like it seemed like the young guy's like i'm gonna do all 30 of these reps i'm going to do all 50 of these squats i'm sitting there i'm like okay i'm old enough to let you yeah and then i felt pretty useless until we started shooting and and then i was like okay give me that pistol they're like oh yeah that's right you you're the pj a little bit of experience and a ranger before that yeah yeah which i'm gonna be honest i have many questions i don't know of anyone who started off as a ranger and then went over to the pj's side of the house there's a lot of guys and guys with a lot more uh combat credibility than me i i think there's a guy webster we called him webb i think his first name was josh and he went on to work for uh rubicon team rubicon i think and um you know there were a few guys that came through when i was an instructor you know who were from the ranger battalion but i didn't care then i just like i don't care where you came from dj's now yeah what i will say is that in my mind now looking back combat to me gives nobody credibility i know some absolute [ __ ] who have a lot of combat and no credibility yeah because they're a complete and utter piece of [ __ ] as a human being behind the uniform and it uh it was a shift in mindset that i had posts getting out or towards the tail into my career i used to look you know you'd see guys in uniform just a quick glance over the left breast pocket to see yeah check the old rack and stack yeah yeah yeah where have you been what have you done at a at a wave top level and then realized that none of that matters you can really perform well in combat and not perform well as a human being i got my first exposure to that in the ranger battalion i was uh uh there was there was a guy and i'm not gonna say his name he doesn't i mean he's he's doing his time or has done his time but there was a guy there that uh was in combat was generally considered to have been a hero in mogadishu i got there right after and and he did some stuff that i'm not gonna get into and i went to ranger school with this guy and that's where i learned that's where i learned like this motherfucker's a piece of [ __ ] i don't care what combat he went through and you know the worst part about it dude he had his wife smuggle him cookies up to the mountains when he was in the gulag i mean that's acceptable hold on so far everything so far is fine yeah the ranger school sends him home and then somehow he got sent right back to the same phase and he got rolled in with me and i was coming out of the desert at the time and uh you know and then he got put with our platoon and i remember like he there was a point i think in our final ruck march where he just refused to carry something and and and i believe it was his saw and i ended up carrying his saw down the mountain those are just fine those aren't light people by the way he's not talking a band saw or yeah yeah you know like the m249 squad automatic weapon is what i'm talking about air cool belfay gas operated fully automatic machine gun if i from the open bowl position a rate of about 600 rounds per minute on cyclic you obviously paid much more attention than i did at that class because i know how to use it but i could not have rattled it i mean here's the thing anything that's uh is belt fed like your m249 your m60 your your 240 golf which is what we we ended up cracking the cracking open in the battalion when we replace the 60. it's all the same description the only thing that's really changes is are the rates of fire and maybe some of the some of the components like we didn't have hand guards on our 240s they don't get hot no no no not at all i think the m60 for me has the most beautiful cyclic rate of fire yeah man just a touch slower yeah it's so easy to control you know what i mean it's like shooting a bar yes when you shoot a b-a-r that rate of fire is like and like you can really follow through on your shots rather than being freaking shaken up you know what i mean like sometimes you grab those weapons with a higher rate of fire and it's like hanging on to a vibrator it's true i mean i mean don't get me wrong i've put a few rounds over the horizon with those things a little bit a little bit of creep yeah but i remember doing uh immediate action drills you know down man drills i used to love it when the 60 guy would go down i'd like rush over there yeah people were thinking i was coming to save him i'm like no well a lot of take that sling off your shoulder i want to shoot your gun well let's talk a little bit about what an immediate action drill is i mean what is that well and i mean i'm assuming that your background would describe it the same we're talking well this can be done vehicle or foot but i'm talking uh dismounted so we're usually in an element of 6 to 12 or 16 cut into two elements contact from the enemy obviously the first rule of the firefight is to win the firefight second rule should be maneuver so that is the immediate action drill immediate action shooting back and then it's you know they're at a simplest level uh fire maneuver so one element is going to shoot the other one it's going to maneuver generally linear you can go oblique if you want to but that's i mean that's what it is you know what same it's the same thing no matter how no matter how you look at tactics whether it's marine corps army navy air force the tactics are are the same the only thing that really changes are some of the weapons systems and some of the communication yeah the terms yeah the terminology and that's where things can get confusing but uh specifically you know you talk about the 60 going down that's the most casualty producing weapon on your team so of course the first thing you do is go over there and pick it up and put it back in the fight how do you do that how were you able to do that because you cross trained you know oh we had always the sharing of information you know the forced sharing of information like you have to learn this right now because it's important yeah they would send so we would go out to the desert there's a desert training facility camp billy macon out in the middle of nowhere near the chocolate mountains in cali okay never heard of those um yeah it's beautiful and i mean 300 degree range field of fire i mean you pretty much just don't shoot at the camp and you're happy okay yeah nice and so they would send the 60 gunners for god it must have been a week and all they would do i mean they were stuff feeding they were you know running out of you know because it comes for 60s it would come traditionally in a hundred rounds of belt fed and they would you know work on timing it and only leaving like a little bit of excess brass snapping it in there yeah yeah yeah dropping boxes in and i mean fixing malfunctions with screwdrivers changing out the barrels yeah well it's a crew served weapon you know what i mean some services in some services some sort in the army it was definitely a crew server weapon usually two guys manning that thing but but uh in the teams it's a yeah you're all in your onesie yeah yeah yeah so they would do that though and then we're off doing when i first got in guys we're still shooting m14s which that's a great rifle too oh yeah but you know m4s ars the carbine type stuff and then we would all come back together and the 60 guys would teach us the stuff they had just learned we would teach them and then cross train for a couple of days and then the instructor cadre just during those drills constantly guys going up and down forcing us to understand that weapon system and so now as a combatant you know that's when you start to realize that it's it's not just knowing one weapon you have to know all these weapons you have to know schemes of maneuver you have to know uh command and signal you've got to know how to communicate on the battlefield being being a warrior isn't just about the fight you know what i mean it's about being able to maneuver and think and react in that fight you know what i mean and being able to i'm big on weapons you know what i mean being able to pick up any weapon and put it in the action i don't got to know every little detail about that weapon all i have to know is the fundamentals of that system if you've got a belt-fed weapon i'm going to figure it out you know what i'm saying i need to introduce you to a man named brian shantosh okay he is a marine corps officer navy cross recipient for essentially taking the enemy's weapons and killing them with them in the early days of iraq and i'm probably butchering the citation horribly but i think i'm going to get the growth parts of it correct in a humvee ambush he had his humvee driver go directly at a trench line basically crash the humvee into a trench line yeah because that's what you do he exited the vehicle and personally cleared about 400 meters of trench i believe wow killing people all along the way with like aks i believe he just picked up an rpg-7 sent that bad boy downrange because he was winchester on his own rounds exactly exactly and that's what being that's what being an effective combatant is all about not just being an expert with your weapon system but also being able to to to just grab another weapon system and be an expert with that you've been trained how to engage you know what the i hate to tell people this sometimes because it seems to ruin their their idea of what an army ranger and air force pararescuemen or any of our combatants you know the idea of them but your job as a combatant is to kill quickly and efficiently in those combat situations you know what i mean and and you want to do it fast you're not going to draw it out there's not going to be a lot of dick dancing around you know what i mean you're on your trigger you put the targets down as quickly as possible and you nullify the threat as quickly as possible there seems to be this theory and that's true for knife fighting as well you want to know what a real fencer or a real knife sword fighter looks like watch guys fence in the olympics it's about precision it's about speed it's about ending it as quickly as [ __ ] possible that guy's a sword fighter the [ __ ] you see on robin hood that's not sword fighting that's tippy tap it's a dance it's a literal choreographed dance nobody's doing that stuff you know what i'm saying it's about engage maneuver engage maneuver and you know this yeah yeah i would describe my job as trying to be a jack of all trades a gross understanding of almost everything that we might be able to encounter yep and a mastery if i'm being totally honest of none of it yeah but an operational capacity across the broadest spectrum udo fisher was an old uh an old pj and he drew a picture of a guy you know and it's a 1950s style it's a pj he's wearing his beret and he's got a parachute on and then there's a med kit underneath the parachute then there's a snowshoe sticking out over here there's a ski over here there's you know scuba fins on his feet he's got a cramp on on another foot you know i mean there's ice climbing gear and all of this radio antenna sticking up like all that stuff i mean think about it if you're an expert in search and rescue and recovery who's also scuba qualified it's recovery anywhere anytime yeah any place using whatever means you need to get there that's why you're you know that's why you get your military free fall calls that's why you guys do static line calls that's why you get your scuba quality if you need to recover something that's the bottom of the freaking lake sea ocean whatever then you can recover that and it's not just personnel it's your recovery specialist anything that they need recovered you should be able to recover it agreed you know motorcycles quads you know all that stuff jet skis it all came along with it that was the fun stuff you know what i mean but at the end of that you got to be able to do your job you know yeah the tool you have access to is only as important or useful as the individual actually managing it right so it's really when you talk about jack of all trades which i call it jolt i put joe i think i even have it on my instagram i like that actually yeah uh you know that's that's what we were it was is para rescue jack of all trades it's right there on the poster and and i do feel like it's a like it's a gift and a curse at the same time what led you to that path my dad was in the military he was an air force guy i grew up on an air force base and um i lived next door to uh sr-71 mechanic and i thought i wanted to be a pilot because the sr-71s were flying over all the time i thought that was the most badass i was going to say they're badass it's like a sky dagger you know what i mean like it just looked freaking awesome i wanted to freaking go so fast it peeled my skin off how loud were those things they weren't they weren't really i mean you could hear them at night and you could see the purple afterburners in the sky and you like sr-71 and you felt really special because you knew it wasn't something that was happening everywhere it was a big time it's a spy plane you know and we had the u2s on on the base too spy plane so at beale air force base in california i think as a kid i felt like i was like the the son of like spies you know what i mean like all right this is what our parents did we spy on other countries you know and we collect information but my dad was just he was a calm squadron guy he was the first sergeant but uh the neighbor's dad was a green beret and i started hearing some some of these green beret stories while my my dad and this guy shot the [ __ ] back and forth across the across the the common carport because we live in a duplex right and i was like well that just sounds awesome that sounds like rambo [ __ ] because i i was a kid in the 80s rambo commando freaking die hard all that stuff you know one guy versus you know versus the world you know i was like man i wanna i wanna that sounds like rambo [ __ ] like that's legit rambo was a green beret maybe i could be a green beret so i talked to my neighbor about it and he said don't be an idiot go in the air force i said go in the air force they have special forces it's called pararescue you'll get a medical background you get to do all the same [ __ ] the special forces does but you'll get all the air force stuff i'm like well that sounds like a wonderful thing and i like the idea of being a paramedic you know or getting into trauma medicine and because my granny was a nurse and then um i took my asvabs for the air force in high school as a junior and then the recruiter changed and then the next recruiter was like you can't just be a pj if the air force needs cooks you got to be a cook and i said i'm not slinging chow for anybody it's not my jam it's not my thing there are a lot of people that are into it man my roommate's brother when i was in virginia beach he started slinging chow and became a chef in his cook for presidents you know i mean there is a career progression there just wasn't my progression so i left and i i was like ah screw it i'm not going to do it about a year later i'm air hammering cement out of the back of cement mixers on my job at the rock yard which my friends thought was hilarious because i'm dumb as a post [Laughter] he used to call me a rock you're a rock like and so i was at the rock yard in yuba city california and i'm air and it's [ __ ] like 106 degrees outside i'm in the back of this thing all day no ear pro just like air hammering this [ __ ] no ear pro well controversial move let's just say that when you're 18 it was provided but not used you know what i'm saying yeah so i crawl out of the back of this thing i'm super pissed off hot and sweaty and i drive directly to the army recruiter's office this is a this is i'm not i'm not going to tell you anything that's not true i drive directly to the army recruiter's office and i walk in and i'm covered and just dust and like it's streaked from sweat and just ass and the guy's like what high school did you go to i said i went to yuba city high school and he said your recruiter's back there and he's the head of the recruiting station and this guy is on the phone and i had the audacity to just walk into his office and sit down and i swear when i sat a little cloud of dust and the guy looks at me and he goes hey man i'm gonna have to call you back i got something i gotta deal with and he hangs up the phone and he said what can i do for you and i said i wanna jump i didn't say i wanna jump into planes i said i wanna shoot people in the face and blow [ __ ] up that's all i said i'm gonna shoot people in face and blow [ __ ] up he's like have i got the job for you he didn't hesitate man this guy was a recruiter's wet dream oh man dude oh yeah he showed me he took me into a little room popped in a vhs of rangers and one of the guys actually turned out to be my platoon sergeant later on but uh showed me a video of these rangers going down a river like you know freaking all the camel all the [ __ ] that we never did in the ranger battalion i never got on the zodiac and paddled down the river in the ranger battalion it never happened that's a good thing i missed out on nothing i did that a lot and you missed out on nothing yeah well i i got it as a pj believe me but uh but uh and you know they showed me all the [ __ ] blowing up and guys shooting guns i said that's it let's do that and he said when do you want to leave i said well get me out of here as fast as possible and so we started the paperwork and he said when's the last time that he said have you ever smoked weed ain't done any illicit drugs and i was like absolutely he goes well what drugs i said weed because you know you know alcohol of course because it was the 80s you know can you drink a beer with your dad and it was [ __ ] normal nobody gave you [ __ ] it's your dad um so i had smoked weed in hash like one time which is a derivative of the weed yeah yeah yeah i didn't know what the hell it was and it was not a good experience but uh you know he was like okay shouldn't be a problem you know whatever when was last time i said yesterday well he had me going to meps on friday oh yeah yeah so this is like a monday and he showed up at my work every day with like a gallon of water and would make me drink a gallon of water and he'd tell me to keep drinking water keep doing this and i went to maps on my dad's birthday and we were supposed to go fishing but i went to meps instead in oakland i passed the urinalysis and and i enlisted in the army with an rgv4 infantry contract and when i was there at the meps i was like i want to be a medic because that pj thing was in my head i was like i want to be a medic you know can i be can i be a medic and there ain't no such thing as a range of medic either you want to shoot people in the face or you want to be a medic which is it going to be so i picked shoot people in the face because i was an angry young dude you know who just wanted to get out of his town and uh you know i was gone in three months in three months i was on on an airplane i went home that night my dad was pissed he's like you're supposed to go fishing today and i said well you know happy birthday you got rid of me i joined the army what did he think about that he said go to your room how old were you at this time i was 18 years old i was 18 years old and hey man i was already i was you know i was i had a job i had my own car you know i was i was i could have been living on my own you were adulting yeah and and he was like go to your room and i went to my room you know because he's my dad my dad's a very uh uh i was i loved my father but he was he was an individual you did not argue with yep and uh and uh so i went to my room and i'm sitting there i'm like what the [ __ ] i thought he'd be happy he joined the military and about half an hour later he comes over and he's got his coors light you know what i mean and he's like all right all right you went into the army i know you can pick your job what job did you pick i said i'm gonna be an airborne ranger he said you're the stupidest son of a [ __ ] alive and he walks away and he's pissed he's angry and then he comes back and goes i don't understand how you can throw yourself at a perfectly good airplane i was in the air force for 26 years and i can count on one hand the number of times i got onto a military aircraft i'm like on one hand pop like come on man he's like i want to head and and i mean he let it go and and i think ultimately he was really proud of me he was just really worried about me which is a natural parental instinct well i got a taste of that when my son joined the marine corps you know or enlisted in the marine corps unfortunately he broke his collarbone which delayed his enlistment you know he was in the delayed enlistment program broke his collarbone he had a little conflict with his recruiter about his shipment date and recovering and then he broke it again recently oh [ __ ] so he's uh he's been on the mend for a while so i don't i don't know what he's gonna do but i felt that pang of like i told you not to join the marine corps you know what i mean not because the marine corps is bad or anything like that just because i've been exposed to all of the services even the coast guard i've been exposed to all of it and i told him i'm like what do you want to get out of your military service you know after he told me i took him to the warrior games you know what i mean yep i was like here's the real deal buddy yeah this is yeah this is the real deal look at the stands how many americans do you see up there how many americans are supporting these veterans you know as they're running up and down the track i support them i'm a veteran i'm one of them i'm to me they're my brothers and sisters who got effed up in combat and i wish i could have freaking done something more fun i mean i feel pain for them you know it's that empathy right and then and then i was like but how many other americans do you see up in those stands right now it's the warrior games and he was like probably there's a ghost town yeah man it's ghost town he's like maybe maybe like 400 i said okay we'll be generous we'll call it a thousand we'll call it a thousand how many how many people show up for a football game where people are kneeling you know you know for the national anthem how many people show up for that and he was like a lot i'm like 25 000 50 000 you know whatever depends on what the stadium will hold i said know what you're getting into because if you think you're gonna go out and just be a hero to the [ __ ] country by kicking in doors and shooting people in the face that's not what it is you gotta go because you understand what you're getting into it's like if you feel like you need to get it on you feel like you got a fire burning in your belly and you need to go get it on and you're angry or or or you're passionate about what you're doing by all means go in the marine corps absolutely [ __ ] you want to go freaking be a savage be a savage go to the ranger battalion be a savage take that take that energy and and have somebody help you temper it you know what i mean what did he want to do in the marina or what does he want he want to do in straight infantry state straight infantry and it's what i did you know what i mean and and here's the thing he's an angry guy you know what i mean he's got a lot and he filled he's 20 now he's fit he's capable he's he's got a lot of uh a drive and determination you know he didn't do the best in high school but like i didn't either no it wasn't for me um and but he doesn't know he's at a at a time in his life where he's looking for leadership and he doesn't have it he's looking for mentorship and he doesn't have it he thinks you know all of this this anxiety that he has you know he's going to get it out by going in and getting it on and he'll get the leadership he'll get the mentorship and i i caution people the same way i've never tried to talk anybody out of military service all i will ever try to say is be sure you know you're what you're getting into there's great benefits from stable economics health care education lifelong stuff that can help you but understand the military will get their pound of flesh first oh yeah absolutely and you might end up in a place where you know just it's a profession of arms and never forget that exactly and and for me i grew up in it you know i grew up in the military you know it's like being a spartan baby you know what i mean when you grow up on a military base everybody's geared towards combat everybody's geared towards national defense i mean everything i don't care if you're a pack clerk you know who's just filling out you know making sure that i or you the the boots on the ground get paid i mean that's an important part of the entire process you know what i'm saying so you're part of that big machine the big military machine and i love it i love that culture the warrior spirit runs through every culture you know what i mean and there are people who are like us in every culture throughout the world and i love that we live in a country that can kind of take those individuals like us who have that and and shape us into capable leaders it's just unfortunate that sometimes uh it's too big almost you know i mean things get overlooked i was gonna ask as i'm listening to you describe that what are your thoughts on how because i agree with you the military is able to do amazing things with young men and women and to be able to mold them and direct them in that purpose how do you think they do if you had to give them a grade on their job when people are leaving the service to prepare them for the after f f f minus minus minus and and here's why i i in 2016 i was having a really hard time i was hosting forged in fire uh i had done a couple of tv shows prior i was having some real identity uh things going on because now my job was becoming full-time entertainment industry i didn't have time for my personal projects i was having trouble finishing my college degree and uh you know kind of on the outs with the actress that i was dating at the time and and uh you know it's in and out up and down and and i also was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder which dates back to my childhood you know and and and uh is enlightening you know what i mean what is that borderline personality disorder is a disorder it's an actual mental illnesses is what they call it's a mental illness that that develops in primarily females interestingly enough but i think it's overlooked in males a lot uh at this point and and it's uh one of the just it basically is a it comes from abandonment issues my mother left when i was very young four years old and the woman that stepped in was not a good person to us you know what i mean and my father wasn't the type of person that hugged you a lot yeah you know i mean i think that the the guys who came up during the vietnam era and went through uh service during the vietnam era they're different kinds of dudes you know what i mean my father among them he was in the first squadron of patrol boats in vietnam yeah he's where i heard about seals from because he was an insertion extraction platform for them yeah they're not emotional nobody was talking about like some of the uh some of the damage that was done and my dad had you know and they got treated like [ __ ] yeah they got back different than the oh yeah modern era of being a veteran yeah yeah yeah so my dad uh he just wasn't that kind of a guy so i had abandonment issues from a small time as a kid but you know these things coupled with you know abuse like physical abuse and then in just the way that we came up you know really developed uh a problem and and i didn't recognize it because when i joined the military all those things i want to do all the anger that i had all the impulse control problems that i had you know i i really became a junkie for like getting it on like just doing [ __ ] just getting it on just like let's be active all the time let's always be doing something and when i wasn't doing something i create something to to get into you know what i mean something to keep you know my impulses just firing firing firing all the time and then drinking you know substance abuse is part of this as well because now i've got something to blame my impulse problems on you know and and you see people do it all the time i was drunk you know what i mean like i was i was the drunk i was the guy that that would facilitate madness now nothing i ever did or facilitated resulted in any criminal charges or any kind of arrest i got arrested i got arrested one time but not charged i got handcuffed and taken home and and it was one of those things where i've done that once i think i was in handcuffs just as a precaution and then i decided i was uncomfortable and wanted to sit down so i pushed the handcuffs under my ass and uh was sitting on the trunk or on the on the bumper of the car and the cop thought i was trying to slip the cuffs and skip my forehead off the uh off the asphalt and so i was bleeding and then i think he felt bad after that and he offered me a ride home but still in handcuffs mind you and then by the time he got me home i had slipped at least one leg out and he had he was like what are you doing i was just drunk guy you know i mean just drunk nonsense mayhem and uh and and you know i i i struggled a lot and my relationships were terrible my per interpersonal relationships you know uh borderline personality disorder they they called the disease where you know the guy looks fine from far but you know once you get involved with them [ __ ] turns into a roller coaster ride so uh really hyper sensitive i can you know my emotional mood swings were crazy like hyper reactive and angry about something than laughing my ass off another second and and really i could move past anything that i was angry about like it didn't matter them oh i wasn't that angry about that so it would flash but then go away quickly flash and go away and you go through manic episodes as well where you know it's almost like a disassociative uh thing where it's almost like you're outside of your body looking in at yourself and you can see yourself kind of just like getting fired up and i'm not saying that the things that i that i get fired up don't have merit but i let them affect me so much more than a normal person would you know what i mean i like say uh let's say somebody called me you al-qaeda yep as a hypothetical as a hypothetical let's say somebody referred to me as a al qaeda mfr well you're gonna get a hypersensitive reaction you know what i mean and then in the aftermath i always you know there's always this remorse there's always this regret there's always this idea that like okay i shouldn't have handled it like that and it's easy to go back and be like yo i'm sorry man you know whatever but that's that swing that's that that's that hyper elevation and then afterwards boom right after you know just the mood swing that people are like okay this guy's [ __ ] crazy is there so the diagnosis is there a treatment that comes with that dialectic behavior therapy is is the best uh is the best treatment and i don't go to a group or anything like that and really what it is is talking about impulse control problems are my biggest thing uh the the compunction to like drive fast you know suicidal tendencies are part of this disorder as well i thought everybody thought about suicide my whole life i started thinking about it when i was very young very very as a when you say that do you mean you were thinking about the concept of suicide or you were thinking about killing yourself oh i was thinking about killing myself as as a very very young child you know what i mean i'm talking maybe as young as uh eight years old probably like if i just freaking took myself out of this equation i wouldn't have to deal with this stuff you know i wouldn't have to deal with this you know what's going on in my house my dad turned into kind of a little bit of a different person at some point uh and and you know where i shared a bed with him when i was really young and he was divorced and raising five of us on his own you know after he got remarried all of a sudden this distance was created and he became almost like an enforcer for uh abuse you know what i mean he come home from work and and uh i i mean for a while there it seemed like we were getting beat with a boat or a belt or there was a lineup like nightly and as a little kid you know even if it wasn't nightly it makes a huge impression on you you know you you don't love your parents you're scared of them you know what i mean and i was really scared of my parents i was really scared and uh there were broken arms and not mine my kid's sister had a broken arm one night and that was explained away somehow and and we went to school with welts and and bruises and and uh my dad had a belt that had the name terry on it and i called it the terry up your ass belt because his name wasn't [ __ ] terry the only thing he used it for was beating our asses so so like so and i think that you know at the time i mean it's just people doing the best that they can you know i mean so my dad he has a lot of issues and regrets about it and his that that marriage didn't last after we were all gone there was nobody else to to focus your issues on you know have you talked with him about oh yeah yeah yeah yeah we've talked with in a lot of things he didn't know he didn't know like when i was in fourth grade and i was emptying the dishwasher before school my mother for my stepmother for no reason just busted a glass on the back of my head had no idea that that happened because she said go take a shower whatever and you don't have to go to school today don't tell your dad i was too scared to tell i was scared of the repercussions that would come from her for telling him you know what i mean so he there were some things that he didn't know how did he rationalize the things that he did know for example the terry belt yeah well you know you kind of laugh it off and and then also you know there's the perspective like ah you were just a kid it wasn't that bad you know what i mean but here here's [ __ ] that yeah yeah but here's here's here's the truth of it it doesn't matter i mean when your parent is is is violent towards you for you know [ __ ] there was a twinkie incident in our house a twinkie incident where all five of us kids lined up like we were at the [ __ ] amusement park and got beat with a boat or over a [ __ ] twinkie you know what i mean there were there were there were all kinds of little things like that when i when i say i thought about killing myself when i was eight years old this is a [ __ ] true story my stepmother gave me a housekeep i was a latchkey kid i was first one home from school from elementary school every day i walk home and i'd open the door for everybody else i gave my stepmother the key she needed it gave it to her and then i went to ask for it back and this is after maybe a weekend i was like i need the key so i can let everybody in tomorrow i'm eight mind you and she's like i don't have it i'm like yeah i gave it to you i gave you the key and she's like no you didn't where's the key i was like i gave it to you so i get a beating for losing the key and i'm upstairs looking i'm in my room like looking for something that i know i don't have you know but i'm looking for it i'm dumping out my freaking toys probably doing the best you can yeah i'm rifling through my drawers looking for something that i know i don't have she calls me down to the dining room and pretends to pick up this key off the floor at the same time it's hung up on the key ring of her own keys and i see her taking it off of the key ring now i watched her put it on the key ring which is why is that me or you it might be me oh [ __ ] that might be me man i have my phone on silent key ring i have no idea where my phone even is perfect that's probably me then all right all right you're watching her put the key in there yeah i'm watching her put the key on the key ring and and i know exactly what's happening and she's like i found the key right here and me being the guy i am or the guy i even you know grew up to be i was like no you didn't it's right there in your hand and she's still struggling with it she's like no it's not she like turns snaps it off the key ring i get another beating for lying for lying and this kind of set the tone for like you know like if i'm going to get beat anyway i'm going to light beale air force base on fire like no it really did kind of set the tone for like you know i and i had two older brothers my parents and god bless them you know in in a lot of ways because they both had to work jobs to feed us you know i mean so we're at home by ourselves a lot my big sister really became the matriarch in our in our lives for me and my brothers my sister and what a burden to place on a teenage a teenage woman you know what i mean you know raising these other kids and and like really that was the our saving grace was my big sister she was the one that was like took us into a room was like it's not going to be like this forever you're going to get out one day and it's going to be amazing and we never heard from my mother again after i think i was like six or seven years old maybe you know so how um how is your relationship with your dad now great uh you know he lives in alabama he lives the kind of life that he wants to live i i tried to steer him in a different direction at one point you know what i mean like you know i didn't want him drinking and you know he drinks about 24 coors lights a day he's he's a good man my dad is a good man he's a good man he really tried his best i think that he was just a little sub i don't want to say submissive i think he was a little bit he didn't know what to do you know what i mean he's got five kids he couldn't do it on his own you know and he married this woman that he thought was going to be a certain way and she was another way and and i think with this his old school kind of mentality you just kind of tough it out i love my father more he's like one of the bravest individuals in some ways that i've ever met in my life and in other ways you know i think like why were you such a [ __ ] like why didn't you stand up for us why didn't you why didn't you step in and do the right thing you know i mean he broke a boulder on my kid's sister the beaudora that he beat us with our whole lives he was beating my kid's sister the week before i went into the army she's [ __ ] 16 years old and he's beating her with a boudoir and i can hear him saying stand up stand up stand up and at the same time i'm like i'm hearing him hit her like if you she's not standing up you're not hitting her on the ass with that [ __ ] boat or you know what i mean what's happening and i go to the freaking door and he comes out of the room and the boat or split in two not like snapped like a like in half it's literally split and it was one oh man i just remember looking in his eyes and i think that that's when something shifted in him and in me and i packed up my sister and i took her out of the house that day took her to a friend's house i said you can never go back there you can never go back to that house it's poison and my dad was doing what my stepmother wanted him to do you know what i mean yeah like the fight was between my stepmother and my sister my dad had no you know he's just how's her relationship with him now oh my kids sister and my dad you know what i'm i'm always i'm always amazed at how much my kid's sister is able to just she loves him just the same as i do you know what i mean she has no ill will towards him not and you can't you can't do that there's somebody you got to forgive people for yourself you know what i mean if you carry around all that trauma from your childhood all of that stuff you know what i mean and and you never are able to say okay on some level i understand where you're coming from you have to if you can't understand from some level maybe the frustration the undiagnosed conditions that they had uh uh if you can't understand that they were living in an era where they couldn't or weren't getting the help that they needed then then you can forgive that you can say okay i understand that i didn't know i had diet like but you know we're not diet but borderline personality disorder i didn't know about dialect behavior therapy i didn't know uh i didn't know about the medicinal effects of marijuana you know what i mean and and you know i just drank and my dad just drank and that's how you dealt with the stresses in your life and and uh and that's what it was and like i don't [ __ ] feel sorry for myself i don't because all of those things all of the trauma all the good because there was good too you know i mean all the good all the bad they shape you into the person that you are today and that person doesn't have to be a good person or a bad person or whatever it just has to be a person that you can live with i don't have to live my dad's mistakes you know i mean that doesn't have to be my mistake it's his mistakes did those experiences shape who you became as a father yeah but i also when i say i understand i understand i have a 23 year old and a 20 year old i started having babies when i was when i was 23. you know what i mean and and i made mistakes i made a lot of mistakes i made huge mistakes i spoiled my kids you know what i mean i i when i physically i did physically discipline my kids i i lost my [ __ ] one night with my son when right before he went into high school he he failed math or something and so i only had them for the summers and i actually only had them for six weeks because football camp would always like creep into the time that i spent with them so i'm trying to teach this kid an entire year's worth of math in six weeks which means he's getting up with me every day at like five in the morning he's getting his school books together while i'm getting ready to drive to camp pendleton to teach tactical emergency trauma care he rides in the truck with me doing math on my laptop online the whole way he gets to work he sits at my desk or outside the classroom a lot of times there's probably some guys out there that remember my son sitting outside of your classroom or at a desk outside while we did emergency trauma care stuff triple c stuff and uh he would do math and and it was and then when we drove home in the middle of the night or at the end of the night he would do math all freaking day long and it really he really got to a point where i was trying to get him to show his work man i was trying to help this guy get into high school you know what i mean like this is a huge impediment to your progression educationally yep and uh and there was one night that i just had enough man and i think i smacked him in the back of the head a couple of times i might even freaking smack him on the face you know and i don't remember exactly i know that i was getting really really at the end of my rope with this and and like i knew he was capable i knew he was competent he just wasn't inclined to do the work and uh so i'm making spaghetti and this pencil comes flying pencil hits the cupboard freaking lands and then uh he said he wasn't doing this [ __ ] anymore and i said you are doing this [ __ ] and he got out of his chair and the second he got out of his chair i felt like he gave me the up down sizing me up he's like i'm about what you weigh that 14's a big dude you know what i mean and it is but he's maybe 185 pounds i'm about 190 and uh but it's 185 pounds of chewed bubble gum like you know so he came at me and i knocked him down and i grabbed him by his hair and this i remember it in full detail smacked him three times hard and then i picked him up by his hair and i slammed him against the wall and i let go and he made a run for it he be-lined it for his bedroom and i chased him because now it was on you know what i mean now he ignited something in me that had been dormant for a while and he jumped on his bed and i grabbed him by his pants and i pulled him out of his bedroom by the back of his pants you know and he's hanging on to the doorway and i'm yanking and finally he lets go and i roll him over in his eyes man saucers right yeah and then i smelled that smell you know that smell you know that smell if you're a hunter you know that smell you know if you've ever been around somebody that's really scared you know that smell and i remember that smell from when i was a kid and uh i stopped and we called his mom and he said that i was being abusive and i you know i tried to laugh it off but but at the same time you know i mean looking back on it [ __ ] it was straight up man yeah it was straight up and and and then that's when i really i think i don't i don't know what year it was but it was it was 10 years ago roughly and that's when our relationship with my son got really ruptured and he didn't come to see me for about another 18 months after that he would not fly out to see me and i had to you know point all of that outward kind of what do you want to call it criticism back at myself and really reevaluate like what kind of a parent are you what kind of a parent are you going to be and um and and and i was struggling with a lot of things of struggling with my own transition from the military and uh it never again you know what i mean like never again and my other son saw saw the whole thing so i never had to again in a lot of ways yeah that's a tough journey of self-reflection though yeah and and i can sit here and i can tell people in in you know in a lot of ways it's funny you know when you talk about the big step he took towards you and he's gonna make this monster swing and i stepped on his foot and i pushed him down you know you know and then and then it was also the realization that he had no idea who i was we hadn't shared that much time together and i was like have you ever been in a fight before he's like yeah one did he kind of want and then we go down the hole have you ever been in a fight with a guy in high school a grown man a guy that shaves an army ranger an air force para rescue man you know i mean have you ever been in a fight you know if you've never fought those people why would you start with me you know what i mean like yeah don't pick a fight with somebody who's immersed themselves in a violent culture for a long period of time exactly and i'm not gonna sit here and say i'm [ __ ] uh i'm not tim kennedy i'm not the guy that's gonna go out there and freaking like rock somebody uh savage by the way i've rolled with him yeah i did not win yeah yeah i'm not that guy you know i got a little cauliflower ear from my days grappling and and stuff like that i was a ranger battalion champ but i'm not that i'm not the guy that's uh that's that's gonna win every fight that i'm in i just like it that's it you're not uncommon there i think that occupation draws people who have that experience or who have that uh no there you go the locks yeah yeah the people who uh they're drawn to it yeah it's part it's part of why you know when you're a recruiter like i want to blow things up and shoot people in the face he was like yeah let me finish soiling myself because you're a recruiter's wet dream and and i don't understand where that compunction comes from and i'm not a badass i'm not a badass am i a good shot yes do i understand weapons and tactics and maneuvers and stuff like that on a level that a lot of people don't retain yeah i do you know i retain a lot of stuff you know what i mean i i really do and and it's just part of who i am and um but i i will in no way ever [Music] say that i'm on the level as some of these other guys you know i i i respect them i've never met him or anything like that i respect him he's got an energy that is is is seems to be pinging right up there with with some other dudes that they broke the mold with him yeah yeah yeah yeah and and and i respect that too and i know he's worked in this business that i'm in the tv business and he's probably had a lot of the same problems that i've had in this business you know what i mean and that's where you talk about the transition nobody teaches you how to not be what they turned you into they spend weeks and months on the on-ramp and then i did um there was a five-day course of which i attended about four hours when i got out yeah yeah and here's the thing you're like i'm not going to that everybody tells me it's bs i already know how to write a resume and and that's what they're doing and they might say hey these people hire veterans these people hire veterans and then you're like i don't want to work for amazon dude yeah like i don't want to work for this multi-million dollar corporation that didn't even pay taxes last year like i don't want to work for them you know but but that's the job that's out there um i transitioned out of the army in 98 like i said how many so you did four in the army i did four years in the army okay i went in on october 20th of 93 17 days after mogadishu i i got out i think the official discharge date was either february 14th or 18th of 98. why'd you decide to get out i didn't want to sleep in the dirt anymore that wasn't in the video you watched oh i knew i know the moment i know the moment it's in my head we were on we were on a a training operation we're on fort benning you know what i mean we're doing the training we're basically road marching from range to range to range you know in the winter time and it's [ __ ] cold man it's cold it's nine degrees outside so it's pretty much like temperature but it's in georgia so it's like wet cold you know what i mean yeah and uh the packing list comes out and it's the rsop ranger standard packing list no snivel gear no [ __ ] you know yeah poncho lion no no no poncho liner was part of it good but like your smoking jacket that's snivel gear the poly pro top snivel gear don't have any unauthorized snivel gear boots jungle boots always that's yours jungle boots are just designed for you oh yeah your your bdus you know how you had the summer and winter weight ones yeah always summer weight 24 7. you had winter weight bdus but they just hung in your freaking wall locker you never used them you had six issue sets of summer weight bdu's and that's what you use for the field for starches and spits for whatever you know it was very very regimented attention to detail was everything don't have anything that's not on the packing list and if you have and if you've forgotten anything on the packing list you're aft you're getting your ass handed to you and that's okay i'd rather do a billion freaking push-ups you know what i mean and and take an ass to and then have somebody write me up some piece of paperwork and put it on a counseling statement you know what i mean like come on man now you're just documenting that i was dumbass one day you know and but uh but uh yeah we were on a bit we were in a patrol base again we're walking from range to range to range we had the radio set up i forget what it was i forget what kind of radio it was and we had a a revolving guard on the radio and uh so it was my turn for radio watch and i get up and i'm sitting there by the radio and i'm freezing my ass off and and nobody's calling and i'm just like [ __ ] hey it's so cold and like this is one of those nights where you pre-arrange a spoon with like two or three other guys like yo we're going to be [ __ ] spooning you want to come spoon later like in your squad everybody's like spooning up like the gayest [ __ ] i ever did was in the army i'll tell you that right now like i did some really gay stuff and it's fine it's fine i'm good with it i'm comfortable with myself but like but anyway so uh all of a sudden i started hearing these i was like oh [ __ ] somebody's awake i'm gonna go talk to that guy you know i'm just gonna walk the perimeter and talk to that guy and i walk over to this guy and he's laying on it's my platoon sergeant he's laying on the ground and this is the guy who's like [ __ ] that you don't need no god damn snivel gear i jumped into panama [ __ ] i was like panama was like 190 [ __ ] degrees you know what i mean like he didn't need your snivel gear yep and he's laying there on the ground like with his head on his rucksack underneath his poncho and poncho liner and he's in his dead sleep and it just kept happening over and over and then as i walked the perimeter there were other guys same thing yeah for absolutely no reason other than to say that sucked let's go drink a beer and talk about it you know what i mean how did i get enlistment short yeah i was like it doesn't make any sense and of course every time we got alerted it was the [ __ ] try to find some ammo that somebody didn't turn in or like we were counting to go to war palettes or it was all [ __ ] the haiti thing you know i remember being on the plane fully kitted up with the freaking rotors turning socom commander comes on board missions go missions ago hope you come back sign missions to go why would you say that missions ago and then he walks off and then as soon as he walks off somebody else comes on they're like all right we're spinning down you know what i mean and we're on two hour hold now we're on 24 hour hold now we're we're just counting ammo we're just counting ammo back into the bin so nothing really was like popping off and i felt like we were doing a lot of training with no really clear thing you know no thing that we were training for and then we worked with the pjs and i remembered back to those days of like the stories about the pjs and the medicine and then when i was working with them they all smelled like soap and had long hair and and you know they called each other by their first name and they had the coolest gear and they were getting free fall paying scuba pay and hazardous duty allowance pay and fly pay and all of this stuff and i was like well i'm getting 110 a month for jumping out of a plane and nothing else and i think i'd do a lot of hazardous duty i was like you know this is maybe the better option they're they're on the missions too yeah they're shooters too except they work in smaller teams and then of course you know you know the stories of mogadishu and stuff like that and and uh so when i got out that was actually my backup plan can you imagine that somebody saying my backup plan in life is to be a pararescuemen you know i got out and i was supposed to work for the devos family or i thought i was going to work for the devos families personal security detail and then they were like ah you know you're a little young you know you're kind your resume looks like a freaking mercenary resume you know stinger missile school would you put that on a resume but i did i put everything on the resume if i had that school i would put it on advanced military operations on urban terrain you know i mean like these are things that don't translate into the civilian world and they were like okay go to college well i had a new baby how am i going to go to college what am i going to do so i got a construction job when the job's over you go on unemployment that's just the way of things in michigan back then you know you go in unemployment or you get right into another job where you could be unemployed and i didn't like the stabili the instability i had a car repossessed i was like i gotta go with what i know which is what i grew up with military service so i went back into the air force and uh i was like i'm gonna be a pj smoking two packs a day [Laughter] i had no idea i had i'm gonna be i had no idea what the end doc was the recruiter was like ah you got to go to an end doc but that shouldn't be that shouldn't be a problem indock for the air force for prayer rescue you know the 10-week pool pre-scuba thing has like a 90 attrition rate and when people say how how do things compare physically it's the physically the toughest course of instruction i've ever been through in my entire life so you really did your research before going in no no no i i i i fly by the seat of my pants everywhere i go i have i i don't know what i'm doing most of the time how was it was it easy to get back into the military i'm assuming i mean it was an honorable discharge from the army oh yeah honorable discharge the boot camp portion of the air force or whatever i did skip boot camp but i lost a pay grade i was an e5 in the army e4 and then and they were like okay you know the the rank progression is slower in the air force they're gonna take away a pay grade but you'll get it right back when you test what a [ __ ] lie i couldn't even test until i had a skill level commensurate with my grade in my chosen career field the pipeline for pararescue is [ __ ] a a year and a half to two years long just to get your three level what is the pipeline the pipeline is base when you become a pj they want you right out of pj school to be fully capable of integrating with any special operations team so and and fully capable as a rescue specialist so you go to a 10-week indoctrination course which is an attrition course just like buds would be and for that 10 weeks you know there's a lot of pool work there's a lot of physical activity there's a lot of mental development it's a great toughness yeah and uh it is a grind to see if you can handle the op tempo and and the stresses that come with being a pair of rescue men and me being price service very easy but we did lose we only graduated 18 out of i think 120 that started and if those 18 even fewer became pjs because after that you got to go to the army scuba at the time for me down in key west we lost a couple of guys there then you got to go to airborne school you know behavior problems you lose a couple of guys there you know survival school up in washington i went to the army seer so i didn't have to go just like airborne school i'd already done that in the army and then at the time you went to samsi the special operations combat medic course in fort bragg and you did the half course you didn't do the full course is this equivalent to 18 delta uh yeah you start the 18 delta course but before they get into their rotations like doing the pa level stuff they pull you out you get in you get the trauma you get the er rotations up in new york ambulance rides and stuff the ambulance rides you get all that stuff and and back then they were doing the paramedic licensing as well so you know you went to that course of instruction you lose a few guys because they're teaching at the time they're teaching dirt medicine and street medicine at the same course so you had to deconflict those things and how you handle all that trauma and uh there was a lot of medicine that was revamped since then you know i mean i went in 98 99 time dude what's coming off the battlefields in both iraq and afghanistan has i remember when i first got in and even my sister who's a nurse practitioner if you use the word tourniquet they're like oh yeah yeah yeah like you better get that thing off yeah and now it's like um tourniquet there tourniquet there turn it there turn it there like get those suckers on there yeah well you know and the the the tourniquets even at the time like the one that i carried around was an issue ranger it was a tourniquet it wasn't a tourniquet it was that thing with the with the little teeth and you pulled it yeah yeah it was it was garbage it would have been a [ __ ] show yeah but anyway so after you do your your your medic course you know you had the free fall school and then you eventually you arrive at the pararescue school which is a hundred days where you take all these little individual skills that these guys went out and got certified in and you combine those into what what a pararescueman does which is search and rescue and recovery so you do all of that stuff before you get bored yeah is that pju yeah pju pju the pj school it's uh the para rescue and combat rescue officer course of course when i joined pararescue there were no officers well now there's crows you got to deal with those it was part of the appeal i think for me having carried a lieutenant's [ __ ] coffee into the field as an rto i i had a healthy amount of disdain for some of the officer corps i had great officers too though you know what i mean yeah and uh but but i like the idea of an all-enlisted career field you know what i mean like because i felt like it was even more focused on just the jays you know i mean like if if my boss is a pj and and that's his whole job and he's an enlisted guy then he understands me implicitly and the pipeline and how the sausage is made all that stuff yeah so what do you do with pju well it it's a combination of all that stuff i think it initially starts off with pj medicine and i and i don't remember the flow exactly like i said it's been since 2007 since i was there but it starts off with like pj medicine and then you get into jump operations and and mountaineering and land navigation stuff that you know they should know but you know survive there's a little bit of survival in there as well uh assisted evasion because that's what we do with pilots who punch out you know you seem bad to one the whole idea is like hit the ground recover anybody that you got to recover or if they're if you cannot airlift them out to be able to assist their evasion uh so you become an invasion expert you know what i mean and and um so there's an evasion portion and then there's weapons and tactics where we take the guys out to the range and it's a for a lot of guys it's their first exposure to shooting because they don't shoot in basic training in the air force really no no they do duck hunt man it's like it's a pretty solid game though well i mean they might have changed it since then but when i was in the air force they were still the aetc was running the shooting range like it was duck hunt and then when you did do your air force nine milk walls it was pretty much a joke i think the the sp the security forces sf yep were the only the different type of essex they were the only guys that were really keeping up regular quals besides pjs you know um and and there could have been other career fields in there but uh so it was like taking a guy who had maybe never even really touched a beretta or touched an m4 carbine and and teaching them in two weeks how to shoot tactically how to get into a stack even you know kind of the basics of cqb is introduced and then there's also an ftx portion where they're supposed to start working as if they're pjs now when i got there uh i got there right after 9 11. they wanted somebody with tactical experience to come in and help with this uh you know kind of revamp this this new program and i didn't know what to do because i hadn't necessarily been deployed myself so i started just running a lot of long range overland movements and operations recovering in casualties and then actually like if you set it up so there's two clicks to your ex fill you got to carry that guy two clicks you know what i mean and it was a hike look it was brutal it got to a point where i built it up so much that the guys were jumping into magdalena out in new mexico doing in the field planning and then executing 17 kilometer overland operations to recover pilots and do evasion stuff and then and then the operation would be ongoing i ran it almost like a mini ranger school i would just keep it going and keep it going and keep it going and just really put these guys under a lot of stress because that's the only thing that i could do and then a guy named rich oberstar came in later and he revamped that whole program and turned it into what they were seeing downrange he's like okay you know now we're bringing in more helicopters you're standing alert you know and they built it up into what it became but like when oe when it all first kicked off i mean the information i have was like you know was like robert's ridge that's how things were going down you know i mean so i taught tactics like that yeah i taught i taught guys how to shoot maneuver lay down bases of fire shift fire lay in intermediate support by fire positions i taught infantry style tactics and then tried to incorporate the pararescue job into it when in reality what rich did when he came in was flip that all around he's like this is what pjs do and we know all these infantry style tactics it's amazing how much it shifted from the early days yeah to even a decade later or beyond we had a massive uh i would say tactical shift in somewhere between i'd say six seven or eight yeah due to people catastrophic loss of life yeah and like you know maybe we shouldn't be using vietnam era tactics exactly going forward maybe we should reevaluate why we're running into every room as opposed to clearing it from the threshold of the exactly exactly so and and that's what we're teaching you know we're teaching the idea that you know one man through the door freaking take the path of least resistance and then you're just button hooking or or following you know what i mean and you moving to points domination in the room and then uh you know i started talking to some guys and that's what i learned and that's what i was teaching and then you start talking to guys who are out there actually throwing lead and they're like nah we don't do that [ __ ] anymore yeah you don't don't run into that room anymore yeah yeah yeah and and a lot of things changed and it was nice to nice but at the same time i ended up at the pj school for so long for so long that it soured me i within a year and a half of being there i was just dying to leave i was just dying to leave i was like i gotta get out of here i can't i hated the students i hated them i hated them i hated i hated the training environment and then i knew the guys were out there deploying and i wanted to deploy even i even got on the horn with the 2-4 and like started trying to get myself onto a deployment like not even talking to my commander you know i was trying to back door the system every way i could i put in a package for the 2-4 without a commander's recommendation letter that came in back and bit me in the ass i mean i ever see that happening and i think that with the leadership that's like cut that [ __ ] out and you keep trying to do that it it really does it really does put a damper on their opinion of you you know what i mean regardless of if you're going to do your job and you're good at your job every day regardless of that you're a freaking pain in the ass and i was and i am i am a pain in the ass i want what i want and and that's why i think eventually i decided to leave you know because my personality fit in in certain ways when we're doing operations absolutely [ __ ] dude i'm i'm there i'm with you i'm on point off duty in the office anything like that disaster disaster like my friends are my friends in spite of i will tell you right now that the all of my friends from the military all my closest homies are friends in spite of things that i did not because of you know i i was this great you know guy outside of work you know what i mean i try to be i try to be but ultimately i was really selfish impulse control again was a huge problem and uh just a handful like my commander hey i saw you riding your motorcycle without your helmet you know this weekend and you know that's against you cmj so like put your helmet on roger that sir you're just mad that you have a [ __ ] bike instead of just saying yes sir moving out if i follow the rules like everybody else i said it's because you have a [ __ ] bike sir they remember those you know what i mean and and uh and and and and then nothing's ever my fault back then and and so i'm sitting here you know just being honest about like who i was and and what kind of an operator i was i think it was the kind of guy that you know when it came to like jumping out of planes and doing the do and and stuff like that guys were happy to happy to work with me you know freaking good to go when it came to interpersonal relationships or hanging out with me you know uh outside of it was more like let's see what [ __ ] happens like this guy's gonna explode let's wind him up and point him yeah and that's another thing dude that's another thing i would fight everybody's battles for them i if you had a problem with the chain of command and i liked you and you told me about your problem with the chain of command i would [ __ ] light the torch i would light the torch and i would lead a charge man i would freaking there was there was man are we getting is this going to go forever we can go as long as i love to tell stories man i love to shoot [ __ ] away there is a time that our chief came to us at the pj school and he wanted to have a vote on whether or not a female who was assigned to the unit got a beret in a shadow box when she left the unit and everybody in the room was opposed to it we all knew it but captain obvious here is the only one that was like well chief let me tell you and and i gave him my opinion i was like look you were at the pj school where these guys worked their asses off they worked their asses off and they put up with a lot of [ __ ] including like hazing from this guy you know what i mean and and to earn that beret they earn that beret and it's something that they don't wear when they go to combat i used to tell them all the time the bray isn't it your job doesn't stop when you don that beret it's just something that tells other people from a really far distance that you're special because you are [ __ ] special you know what i mean i was like and now we're going to give that to somebody who hasn't earned it in a shadow box that's something you give to a guy when he retires beret in a shadow box a flag rack of ribbons you know the standard i was like there has to be some amount of respect for the things that symbolize us you know and and i might not have said it as nicely but that's definitely what i meant when i said well he pulls me out of the room afterwards and he was like i need you to support me on this because everybody else will support me and i said absolutely not i'll support you on any lawful order but you're asking me my opinion and you're asking the opinion all these guys who've earned this beret i said it's just a beret and a shadow box to her when you tell me it's just a beret in a shadow box to her it is to everybody else that doesn't have one it is but to the guys that actually [ __ ] earned it is so much more than that yeah and that's why when the army switched from the black beret to the tan beret i was in the air force by then and i was stationed in iceland i remember i called my homie and i was like yo man like what's going on and i called him on the unit line you know what i mean it's a 505-5454 4353 if anybody wants to call it ranger battalion anyway i called them and i was like what's going on and there was they had a gag order put on them they weren't allowed to say anything and he was like look man if you call me at home i'll tell you all you want to know about it he's like but i'm not going to talk to over a live line and uh there was a lot of stink about it that this new uh uh what do you want to call them the new commander the overall arching general yeah commanding general had just said hey man everybody gets a black beret now well it doesn't mean anything to you it doesn't mean anything to any of the guys that didn't have one before that it's just a uniform change for them it's another you know 21.95 they got to shell out for a new a new cover but to a but to a ranger man what an insult yeah what an insult definitely and those are the types of political decisions that you also have to live with and deal with in the military you got somebody who doesn't have any idea of culture or tradition and some or something like that or it doesn't care about it who makes a blanket decision like that and and you're like okay you know this is what i got to roll with now and we're still dealing with that stuff today there's a shitload of guys you know female rangers i've had my ass kicked by my big sister who i know if she wanted to be a [ __ ] ranger all you guys suck her big penis she's gonna freaking get like she's gonna like this i've seen her take grown men and dump them right on their [ __ ] skulls she did judo with us when we were kids she's a badass she had three wild-ass younger brothers she had to [ __ ] reign in if she wanted to be a ranger she could absolutely do it i got my ass kicked by a chick when i was a freshman in high school i tell you every dude whose ass i've kicked since then you got your ass kicked by a guy who got an ass kick by a chick there you go so like it happens it happens so the culture changes and it's like how are you gonna shift with that culture you know i mean how does that affect you and how long did you stay in as a pj for the better part of ten years i would say between uh nine i guess two enlistments on active duty and then and then i did a reserve enlistment it was supposed to be six years but ended up just being one what uh what was it that made you or what was it that changed your mind and you decided to hang it up and move on okay so i wanted to leave the pj school and the only way that i could seem to do that on my terms was to just leave active duty uh they wanted me to re-enlist a year out from my from my ents yeah my ets date and you know there's a bonus calculation all that stuff everybody's got a timeline in their head if i do this many years to this date and that and i'll get that money and it takes me to this retirement right so they were gonna they wanted me to re-enlist and leave me a year short of retirement you know a year short of 20. and i said look i said i'll re-enlist at the end of this year i'll even do a no-cost to the government move to my new assignment i said and i'll re-enlist there at the end of it and then that way i'm maximizing my bonus and it takes me to 20 and then if i want to get out i can get out no no you can't you can't do that and i'm like well well what are my options here as i and they were like well you can turn down the assignment which means you got to probably stay at the pj school for another year and i said but i can re-enlist at the end of that year and and and then get reassigned or whatever and i had a i had a new assignment that was like they were assigned to moody moody air force base you just have to re-enlist to take the assignment this is the leverage that they have also known as the dangling character yeah yeah man like here's the assignment that you're asking for that you want you want to go there but we want to make it so that we pay you less and do all this stuff and and i tried to like negotiate with these guys and you can't negotiate in the military so i was like well what happens if i just turn down the assignment i said well then you're up for force reduction i said and then what happens then they said well you probably won't be force reduced because you're in a critically manned career field i said okay i'll roll the dice we'll see what happens so within about a month a forced reduction letter comes in and they're like well you can go to your commander and your commander can maybe waive this so i went to my commander's name was joe barnard at the time and i think he i know joe do you know joe yes so joe's doing the forge school down in uh down in uh uh tennessee now he's trying to help uh with some kids there and he was my instructor at the pj school and he had heard some stories about me and my my attitude and antics and behavior and he had heard that willis is a [ __ ] [ __ ] and i i was i was i had no time for [ __ ] i'd like well you and i this laughing thing back and forth man i if you if i didn't know you for a year rich oberstar can tell you this he came to the unit i went through pj school around the same time as him we're in some of the same courses of instruction he showed up at the pj school i just watched him for a year i was like let's see what this guy's all about and i swear to god for a whole year that's a long grace period and then after a year you know i was like okay he's here to make changes he's here to make things legit he's here to freaking really work because there are a lot of guys that were there to take a break because i had never been over or anything like that i didn't need a break i needed you know i needed somebody that was motivated in my opinion to like really get after these guys really push a really great course of instruction and and so you know i i didn't really talk to anybody and they're like yeah well this is a [ __ ] [ __ ] joe came out to the range one day and i'm teaching i'm teaching pistol pistol uh stuff and you know it's it's a pretty dynamic course of instruction for the students you know safety is a huge thing and i used to kick guys off the range for doing stupid [ __ ] send them straight back to the barracks i'm like you pointed a weapon at your own [ __ ] face yeah you're done training i had a guy i'm not kidding i had a guy changing magazines on his nine mil and he's doing a uh he's doing like a an admin reload or whatever it is or attack he's got a round in the chamber yep drops the magazine tack reload attack reloading and he grabs a full magazine and he's got uh the one magazine in his hand he's got the full pistol in this hand he's like what do i do with this [ __ ] magazine and he looks at his vest and i'm watching this happen and he reaches with this hand grabs the velcro tab lifts up stuffs the magazine and drops it back down and gets back on his gun and i didn't say anything while i was happening i [ __ ] froze you know what i mean yeah because you're you're watching something happen [Music] and then the second he got back into that position i was like go ahead and freaking drop your magazine clear the same thing that bad boy i was like you're off the range as a year off the [ __ ] range now that's the kind of guy i was so joe shows up to evaluate you know my course of instruction and then afterwards he takes me you know behind a connex box you know and he's like he's like look man heard a lot of stories about you coming out here he's like i know you were one of my students you know you've been at this [ __ ] pj school for a long goddamn time he said uh you just keep doing what you're doing you know i don't care if you're a [ __ ] dick i don't care if you're a dick as long as you keep teaching on point like that he's like just keep doing what you're doing stay out of trouble roger that sir move on you know move on and and we had that relationship and when it came time to re-enlist you know for that forced reduction thing joe was my commander and he's like look man you either want to be in the air force you don't i'm going to force your hand on this he's like i'm not going to make this decision for you you have to make the decision and everybody knew that i had been in beer fest kind of [ __ ] around on leave you know what i mean and everybody knew that i had gone to command directed anger management where i was kind of turned on to like the idea of learning to express myself through acting classes and that i had gotten a few calls about because new mexico at the time was like popping off with some stuff so i'm not going to say that outside of the air force there wasn't this interest in in this other thing you know what i mean so i i think uh he did that and and i was like look sir i was like uh i said i feel like uh i feel like i'm not appreciated you know what i mean in in the sense that you know why can some it seemed like there was some favoritism in a lot of ways it seemed like there was i i just felt and again this is my borderline it's all conspiracy theories up here you know what i mean like oh they're doing this to me because this that the other thing and there's a lot of pointing fingers and i never really pointed the finger back at myself and said you know you would probably be so much easier to work with if you got your personal life under [ __ ] control you know what i mean and it wasn't it was out of control man my personal life was a [ __ ] mess and i dr and and it ended up eclipsing other people's personal lives and getting involved in other and other people getting involved in my [ __ ] and uh so it almost like a pariah you know i mean like don't [ __ ] talk to that guy he's you know great on great when you're freaking at the unit but outside of that is trouble you know so and then even when i got to la there was a lot of that there was a lot of that like i couldn't let go of the that dude that i was off duty i mean that was my identity it'd be a [ __ ] wild ass the wild ass drunk is getting into [ __ ] and fighting people up and down the streets of albuquerque like so you know it's only when you're laying on the floor surrounded by your friends pissing on your own [ __ ] chest i'm talking like straight up in the air and onto your own chest and you wake up from that and you realize man i have i have really hit rock bottom like this is this is it i have not experienced that i'm gonna take your word for that particular evolution yeah what a small world man so i met joe working with um young pjs in crows at the end of their pipeline so i did about two years of military free fall instruction and it was and it was a bridge gap between what they got at the end of the pipeline and then really trying to get them operational you know all hey ho so jump clear and pull getting to the stack navigating landing appropriately and then moving on with that so the ast the ast portion so ast came online somewhere i want to say between 2005 and 2007 when i got out and that was all run out of herbert field air force base they were sending all the pjs and all the combat controllers and all the crows there where they furthered their their their education so this was way later this is like 14 15 16. oh okay yeah and i work for a private company oh okay so they and they outsourced it and joe was the skipper i met him for the first time i think in the middle of nowhere in wyoming where they were doing this remote camp where we flew in a huey yeah and we would go jump out of a huey to these unknown dzs and yeah i worked with him for a few years he was awesome i really like joe here's what i like about joe joe also has some things and it had some things in his background like pj legend wise that weren't necessarily you know cast the greatest light you know what i mean like i trust men more with the touch of dirt under their fingernails well i mean there was there was an incident with another pj where they were jumping together and the other guy where the other guy frapped in and and so i think that there was a little bit of that shadow that followed joe around a little bit um i know that he didn't get along with the first chief that i worked for at the pararescue school um and and i know that he had had some personality conflicts i loved joe joe reminded me of a ranger you know what i mean like when i when i was a student and he was my instructor he reminded me of like a like a no [ __ ] kind of guy you know what i mean and he would you could see him off to the side laughing and joking with the other instructors and having a good time you're like okay this is a guy who's you know when it's with the students it's about that relationship student instructor i'm going to hammer your ass or whatever but he's really a real guy i i think i tried to do the same thing with the students and they came back to the school to fight me you know what i mean they're like [ __ ] this guy i'm gonna kill him so it sounds like you made the choice on your own to get out because you were yeah eye on the ball out in the los angeles area well yeah i ray colon lopez who's now the chief master sergeant of enlisted affairs at the [ __ ] white house or something like that he's got some crazy made-up title i'm sure he wrote it for himself and sounds amazing i mean yeah i mean ray colon lopez came from the 24th sts to the unit and uh you know he's he's a very he's a very he's very good at the business of the air force you know what i mean yeah very very good at the business of the air force as proven by his position now you know and he he showed up to the pj school and we had some conflicts you know he and i and uh he was always upset or angry about some uh what i call political [ __ ] political [ __ ] fire extinguisher training you know what i mean like like you haven't done your [ __ ] fire extinguisher training you gotta be signed up i'm like [ __ ] dude unknit your eyebrows relax you know we'll we'll get to that [ __ ] all-important fire you know so so he had to enforce a lot of things he didn't like to enforce and and you know he was a little bit of a cowboy too like hey we're going to do the point break jump today we're jumping it lake mead 12 9 9 9 9 and we're going to do a jump with fins and all that stuff i'm like okay great you have the waterproof altimeters i'm jump master too i know my rigs and he's like he's like no man we're gonna count it off i was like you're gonna count on [ __ ] you are yeah i was like you're gonna count off five hundred [ __ ] halo jump rubbing it's like i was like no i said according to the regs you cannot do a jump over i think it was five thousand feet at the time five thousand feet without waterproof altimeter so unless you have waterproof altimeters we're jumping at 3 500 feet today and it's going to be standard ramps procedures and he looked at me and he was like you're going to have to show me that in the reg so i showed it to him and he's like damn dude you know your [ __ ] and i was like yeah but i was also the dick for for pissing on his [ __ ] point brake jump parade we got waterproof altimeters and then we start jumping and then the pppm the parachute program manager that came up from lachlan is duct taping fins to his legs which is something that we had thrown out i like we don't do that anymore look at this [ __ ] it's like he's over i was like you're listening to this guy who's the pppm but look at him duct tape and those fence to his feet it's like it's unauthorized you don't do that oh he's the pppm it's fine no it's not sure that works sure [ __ ] we jump this guy's freaking fan comes unraveled and he's like awesome and he flips over onto his back because i'm like that's a horseshoe oh yeah that's a horseshoe he flips over on his back and he manages to get it cut away you know what i mean but that's the kind of thing i felt like i was battling with a lot of time like yeah i'm a cocky dick but there's regs you know what i mean and in the ranger battalion that's one thing that was really enforced you could be a cocky dick you could be whatever you could be a [ __ ] bird whatever but when it comes to like conducting operations or or when there's regs that are set you follow the regs you know what i mean you know and for me i thought that some regs applied and didn't of course there's the motorcycle thing there's the hypocrisy i mean there is the hypocrisy you know yeah i'm not talking about looking for gray area yeah black and white is very similar you're not doing a [ __ ] halo jump or you're gonna count it off yeah yeah and so and so there were little moments like that and ray you know i think once he found out that i was getting out he sent me a sarcastic email from this company that was looking for a pj the host of show called true stories of pararescue and the email said this looks like it's right up your alley hollywood hollywood now my teeth didn't even get fixed until i was in my 30s so like the idea of being hollywood to me was ludicrous like i was the guy that chewed through the [ __ ] concertina wire like i was my call sign in the army phil simpow made this one up was this because my teeth were all over the [ __ ] place snaggletooth yeah exactly so uh so the idea of being hollywood or anything like that was just like whatever but uh i called the guy i called this producer i said you know my name is will willis i'm a former army ranger air force parrot rescue man i have a lot of experience speaking in front of people having hosted or emceed graduations and and you know just teaching in general and you know there's a certain amount of confidence that comes with you know being a an operator and you're older too it's older yeah and um and they were like well you know do you have a reel and i was like i didn't know what that was but i do i mean i have a fishing reel yeah exactly i was like i don't know what that is and they told me they told me what it was and i filmed a jump i filmed a jump i hosted a jump we talked about the parachutes we talked about the little wing suits and stuff that we were wearing at the time and then uh and then i did i jumped out of the airplane and i did a little wrap up you know what i mean three minutes edited it on my home computer shittiest footage you've ever seen your entire life like just like and and the guy who's filming it is literally holding the helmet of his you know skydiving rig you know what i mean and uh i put it together and i sent it to these guys and they were like it's [ __ ] fantastic probably the first time i've ever seen anything yeah yeah they're like that's amazing [Laughter] when are you coming when are you going to be in la again i was like oh as a matter of fact i was going to be there tomorrow as you're looking for like really i'm like absolutely my brother lives in california northern california i was like my brother lives in california i'll be there tomorrow i said would you meet with us i said absolutely hung up the phone made a freaking flight flew out to burbank these guys picked me up from the airport uh drove me to these offices in burbank where i met you know the owners of morningstar entertainment and i sat down with him i talked to him and and gary and panini they were really nice mom-and-pop operation i had some crazy ideas and then i got driven to this location where they handed me six pages of script about cortez's push into into the america you know into into you know the united states how he got as far as plot twist yeah right and they're like memorize this and they drove me up this hill and to this location that looked outdoorsy and i memorized all this dialogue about cortez you know it's like an operation you know memorize these facts real quick and uh and i regurgitated everything they said on camera and and they're like take your shirt off and i'm like okay this is starting to feel a little bit like that modeling gig i did and at that point they're out there for me i'd have been like yeah see it was like down to down to my a shirt what some people would call it wife beater i guess down to my a shirt and i'm kind of doing this thing and and uh and they're like they wrapped it up and we go to get something to eat and i remember that i was like take me to mcdonald's i need some cheeseburgers five cheeseburgers that's my standard so i get five cheeseburgers from mcdonald's and these guys are like you're gonna eat that [ __ ] like hell yeah i'm gonna eat it this is joy for me pure joy mcdonald's to me is bliss so i freaking go back to the studio wrap things up catch my flight out in the afternoon about a week later i get an email it's a contract to host a tv show a tv show not anything specific and i said generic host contract yeah generic host contract it paid 1500 an episode if they ever made an episode of anything like in and i sent it to a lawyer because i don't know anything about lawyering legalese or anything like that and and he was a like a like a what do you call it real estate lawyer or something and he was like dude it looks like a real contract to me i'm like should i sign it he goes is anybody else offering you a contract to be on tv i'm like no he go sign that [ __ ] [Laughter] so i did and i sent it back and then i filmed the sizzle for deadliest warrior that's where i met david baker from forged in fire for the first time in march of 2007. he is the recreation of the weapons recreation yeah he's the old fat guy that looks like colonel sanders okay yeah david who you're talking about yeah you know exactly what i'm talking about it's the best way i could describe him and then uh and then there's uh and that's where first time i met him and learned about what he did for a living at the time it was just props and stunts yeah you know what i mean he made props or provided props and stunts and that's what he was doing there he's providing the the sword that we're using for our deadliest warrior whatever and uh it wasn't a sword that he made it was something he commercially bought and and uh and uh you know so whatever i met dave and and and then fast forward we filmed the sizzle and then that turned into a sizzle for spec ops mission and then deadliest warrior became a thing but with different hosts because i ended up doing spec ops mission for the military channel and i never caught a single episode of that so what was that all about you know it was all it was really they wanted to they wanted call of duty in real life i think is what they wanted did they realize that call of duty doesn't exist in real life no and i no matter how many times i tried to explain it to them it was really like you know you're going to be a big you're going to be a big star you're going to get 10 of everything that we make off of this you know what was the premise the premise was is that it was a demonstration of military special operations capabilities and a force on force uh conflicting objective environment i guess it was a war game it was a simulated war game where but you only had you i just me just me and and every i had a pilot one time who i picked up and was able to help me like flank a guy you know what i mean um but it was just me you know against these other guys and and there was very limited intel you know and so when i came into this i tried to do like a five paragraph operations order for these for these guys like this is how this is gonna go down dude within two minutes they were like what the [ __ ] are you telling us right now like we got cameras and [ __ ] to deal with like you just do what you do and you film it and you you just produce everything and and you won't get any credit for it so uh sounds about right so that's that's how it went you know and and there was a navy seal whose dad had been one of the founding members of dev you know what i mean he he was there and he was the military advisor and everything was a little bit behind as far as weapons and tactics you know i'm bringing what kit that i had available to me you know we're trying to make deals with black hawk or anybody that would supply this kit and and it's a lot of times it's about sponsorship and advertising and and then that's when you start to learn about demographics and and ratings and and you're just trying to not look like an [ __ ] yeah like i just don't want to look like don't make me look like an [ __ ] like nobody does this stuff what you're asking me to do is outrageous you know what i mean and i did the best that i could with what i had and and believe me the hate the hate that came out from the military community uh no no because my homies were super supportive like all my guys oh my god all my dudes that love me in spite of were like dude it's cool man it's cool you know yeah it's fine you know and you're like look man i'm just trying to make a living you know i'm just i was driving a cab in between episodes i was driving a taxi cab in between episodes or i'd get the the odd contracting gig here and there but it was like okay i can't contract all the time and do this and drive the cab and be in the reserves and and like it turned into a huge juggling match which ultimately i think just the dream itself killed my marriage you know what i mean the idea of like i'm doing this whole totally different thing that that well and and my infidelity you know i'm going to be honest with impulse control problems uh those are the things that killed my marriage you know what i mean and and me i've always just been say yes to more things say yes to that and you know i tried it and i didn't like it and it didn't go well and i got angry and i fought with producers and directors and christopher barnes god bless his heart man he was he he was the the most patient producer or director i've ever worked with like this guy was like okay okay well okay like anything anytime i was losing my [ __ ] he was like okay man and he and he provided a lot of mentorship that i didn't realize was like that was great until later you know what i mean a lot of times when you're in it you don't see it and i mean i threatened to throw them into san pedro harbor i was like riding this [ __ ] zodiac i'm freezing my ass off i'm hopped up on [ __ ] vicodins because i had [ __ ] my back up we're doing like i forget what we were doing like it was like sandpage we couldn't dive in san pedro harbor there's no way it's like you have to call people and freaking get authorized you want me to dive san pedro harbor by myself with this like drager system and you know all this stuff so what could possibly go wrong yeah what could possibly go wrong so they had to and this is what another thing that i hated about hollywood they're like well we want to simulate you using this stuff because the guys provided it you know we want to simulate it and i was like i was totally against it i'm like you should go simulate uh going and [ __ ] yourself yeah yeah and i didn't want to do it but do you know a navy seal named damian warner by name i don't know him personally i know him personally i [ __ ] love this guy i love the chat i love that everybody calls him turkey dinner you know what i mean i i love him and and you know he's a guy that got out and maybe not everybody loves him but i i really do enjoy the conversation i had with him and he was one of those guys i was sitting at dinner with him and he was asking me how filming was going and i'm telling about it we're of course teaching a live tissue course so like i'm i've got a foot in two different worlds a real world in the [ __ ] fake world two very yet diametrically opposed words diametrical there's no violence of action at all in anybody's vocabulary in in the in the producer world or director world um so i'm talking to him about this and he's like look bro you already sold out you already sold out he's like sell out all the way to any of these [ __ ] guys that are throwing stones at you pay your bills i said no nobody stepped forward and said hey man i'm going to help you out with your child support this month or hey man i'm going to help you out with your car payment this month nobody ever said hey man i'll give you a job so that you don't have to do this thing that i hate that you're [ __ ] doing nobody ever said that they just said you're a [ __ ] piece of [ __ ] this is garbage you're horse [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ] you i hope you die like [ __ ] like some of the worst things that somebody who doesn't know you can say and you're like what man and it hurts man like you don't think that it does you know but it you learn to like blow past it i guess you know but i'm not good at it because i do have a personality disorder that makes me [ __ ] engage [Laughter] so so uh you know i did it and i didn't like it and but it sometimes was fun sometimes wasn't but i was learning about filmmaking at the same time and which is what i really had an interest in was storytelling everybody knew that i was the guy when it came to like movies if you had a question about a movie [ __ ] come and ask me i'll hook you up the line the person the actor the freaking sometimes the director producer like i was into it i had like 400 dvds when people had three and um and that was my hobby storytelling writing freaking you know bullshitting you know and that's what i was good at and and what i really realized that i could get into in the entertainment business so really at the same time i was doing my thing i'm watching all these guys just like you watch your leadership you know who's good at what what does that guy do what does that guy do how do i get that guy's job because he's above the line he's getting paid residuals on this [ __ ] and i didn't realize that i was producing my own content i didn't realize that i was my own cameraman i didn't realize that i should have been also on the ticket and they all realized that though but they have clarity the first the first tv show i ever did i got paid 9 500 you know what i mean in total and then when i kind of raised to think about the residuals the 10 back end if you read the contract it's after recoup of the cost to make the show guess what they never recoup the cost and it's 10 percent of net not gross you know so i think i got one residual check for 13 and then i signed up to do another tv show with the same production company called triggers weapons that changed the world and i got paid a little bit more same 10 thing that i knew i wasn't going to get paid on but at that time it was a part-time gig because i was now the director of operations for this company and they were filming on the weekends and when i had available time it's according to my availability and it was just it was more of a standard hosting gig but now i'm hosting a show about guns oh my god what a community you know i do i don't know everything about every [ __ ] gun no does anybody nor does anybody but if you got your favorite and you know everything about every guy yeah god help somebody else touch you and i maybe covered it very kind of loosely oh my god i had a guy called washington man hunter on the i'm going to [ __ ] dime him out washington man manhunter i don't know what that means but that was his his uh his screen name on the field and stream website i did a i did an article for field stream where they sent me a bunch of questions i typed up my responses i sent it back well they edited my responses and you know in the military timelines and all of that [ __ ] counts what do you think they edited out all those little details i went to this during this period of time this during this period of time this during this period of time and then this guy a washington man hunter comes out of the woodwork i'm in dc going to the nra museum to to do the second season of of triggers they're doing a whole [ __ ] premiere at the nra museum which was awesome by the way my brothers and sisters have flown out to dc my roommate at the time had come up you know my my my girlfriend's mother had come down it's a big [ __ ] deal and this article comes out and my brother's like dude if you read the blogs have you read the comments i'm like no i haven't read the comments man and and he's like don't don't read them well now you have to why the [ __ ] did you tell me not to read them because now i'm going to go yeah now you have to so i go and i start reading these comments man and this one guy kicks off this whole thing and he's like this guy's a [ __ ] fraud it's like no [ __ ] way yes was he an army ranger and an air force para rescue man and did all this [ __ ] during these periods of time yeah he's a [ __ ] horseshit hollywood [ __ ] stolen valor and look man that's all i got at this point i didn't deploy i don't have [ __ ] rack of red ribbons and metals and [ __ ] purple hearts and [ __ ] blown off limbs or or horror stories like that i just got my dd214 in what i legitimately did in the military and this guy's [ __ ] trying to strip it all away and say that was garbage and that's the first time that i ever responded to somebody on the [ __ ] internet and i lit them up i was like [ __ ] you dude i was like here's what happened and i posted the entire interview as i wrote it yeah and then i was like you want to come at me come at me man and he did he tried to snap back a couple of times really yeah and then finally somebody was like will's right during his era guys went to [ __ ] ranger battalion before they ever went to ranger school you know that was his big hang up yeah was the idea i've worked enough with rangers yeah yeah yeah all the time yeah yeah yeah but this guy in his day he didn't go to [ __ ] ranger battalion or whatever and i think he's probably a vietnam era guy where there was no ranger battalion you know the third ranger battalion didn't even come on line until october 3rd in 84 84 october 3rd which is ironic because mogadishu was october 3rd of of 93. it's those guys the uh we'll call them legacy soldiers yeah who don't realize that there's an evolution past when they're yeah ets was yeah and and and so that's when i really became like one of those one of those guys that's like look man i've got the legitimate [ __ ] you know what i mean you want to look me up you want to look up my background just my military background go for it all day long i got the dd214s i kept all my [ __ ] tight i'll show you my freaking my little book that i got taught to maintain with all my certificates my three-ring binder all my orders everything i got the orders that sent me and five other guys to fort benning you know from oakland i have records of that stuff where's yours bill where's yours don't come at me cause i'm not showing up coming to anybody else i don't come at anybody else unless it's just [ __ ] right away you know what i mean if it's [ __ ] to my face right away but i don't go out and say oh [ __ ] andy stumpf is full of [ __ ] you know what i mean because some people i don't know anything about you but i know that you were a seal and then i listened to one podcast you did and i make all these judgments about who you are as a [ __ ] person the only time i'll go after people is when they'll say [ __ ] like yeah i served in vietnam at seal team three i'm like oh you mean the seal team you got commissioned in the [ __ ] 80s yeah and and i've called people out on stuff you know what i mean like i when i was doing my we talked about the veteran transition i did a documentary in 2016 called the transition project i rode a motorcycle across the country a cafe racer with a [ __ ] bar sweet on it and i interviewed marty scoveland jr lindsay hardin i just saw her at sorenex i interviewed antonio ruiz who's the founder of a regroup foundation um one of the guys from team red white and blue in colorado i talked to him and and i just started meeting all these veterans and i show and it was just like anybody wants to talk i'll talk to you because i needed to talk to somebody and and then i met this guy who in vegas he was like yeah i was in the battalion you know whatever here's what i'm going through with the with with the va and stuff and and all these claims and then when i met him and i went to a coffee shop with him and his daughter and his weird friend and some of the things that he was saying didn't really start a job unwind a bit yeah and i'm at the end of this ride you know what i mean and i'm in vegas and i'm meeting up with tyler gray you know who you know is a legit ranger and i had met while i was teaching emergency trauma care stuff he and i got injured on the same target did you really yes i did not know that man people don't realize that he and i know each other what a [ __ ] wonderful human being that guy is i love that guy i got shot in the courtyard he got injured on the other side of the door that i was gonna be holding security for the breach on i did not know that yeah so i was in town and i'm visiting you know you know this guy and i'm also supposed to meet up with tyler who's a legitimate ranger growing up in afghanistan and then i got this schmuck who's telling me a line of [ __ ] and i just walked out and and i asked him to leave the coffee shop i said i need to talk to you outside and when we got outside i was like i didn't want to embarrass you in front of your daughter i said but what you're telling me is a lie you're [ __ ] lying to me there's no reason to lie to me about any of your [ __ ] military service there's no reason if you're in the military and you're having a hard time you're a veteran there's no reason to inflate anything you did i i'll be the first person to say i'm the most highly trained unopened gi joe in the [ __ ] world you know what i mean i've had more [ __ ] combat training than anybody who's never gone to combat i like that unopened gi joe yeah man i'm on the shelf i'm just some collector's item you know like look how good that [ __ ] gi joe looks man let's put him on camera you know i mean but the real g.i joe is like over here he's had his [ __ ] legs switched out with another gi joe's [ __ ] legs and that's the real guy the guy that's [ __ ] been played with hart you know what i mean so i always recognize that and this guy to be claiming that he was anything other than what it was i just called him out on it and and i was like you know uh we're not gonna talk we're not gonna i'm not gonna do an interview with you and i said and you should be ashamed of yourself you know what i mean because if you're ashamed of your service the service that you did then you should be ashamed of yourself nobody should be ashamed of their military service unless they did something that was illegal or compromised their integrity you know overall while they were there so i couldn't agree you know and then i had a guy in cocoa beach florida when i was driving a cab a pj student this is hilarious a pj student uh tell me a story about me to me as if as if the thing that he was telling me happened to him and me together and my my homie jim sluter was is the guy he's the one that brought the kid over he's like you got to hear this story you got to hear this [ __ ] story i'm assuming this man knew and jim jim knows who i am but you know long hair [ __ ] i'm driving a cab and basically i'm like smoking a cigarette not pj like at all i mean i'm in the dregs now and this guy launches on this story about how i gave him a heart palpitation well he you know by pt and him while he's at the pj school or something like that and i'm listening to tell this story it's a true story it's a true story a student started throwing multi multi-focal pvcs you know when i had him doing lunges for leaving his id card adrift in like the copy machine you know what i'm saying like i had him doing lunges and he started throwing pvcs and when we went to the hospital i took him to the hospital he ended up having a cardiac a heart condition well this guy is telling me this story as if he was the guy and i and jim is laughing because he's really he's he's come he's got a lot of comedy going but i'm just straight-faced listening to this because i can't believe it's happening and jim is dying he's dying he can't hold it in man and the more the gym laughs the more this guy ramps up the story right because that story tellers will yup and uh and um and then he gets to the end of the story and i said you're a [ __ ] liar he goes what are you talking about what the [ __ ] you you i said i'm well well it's a [ __ ] that's like you're a [ __ ] liar you just he's told a whole fabricated story it's a true story but you weren't there it wasn't you it was another [ __ ] guy how can you sit there and tell me that story to my face and jim [ __ ] fell he fell on the floor of the bar he was laughing so [ __ ] hard what did that kid do he walked he was ashamed he [ __ ] walked away and i was like get the [ __ ] out of here like there was nothing else to be said after that it's not i don't even remember the guy's name there's no debate there's no debate to be had there's nothing it's just like go go away now like it's stupid like what what and i'm not saying i've never walked into a crowd and like said some stupid [ __ ] where everybody's like okay you need to shut the f up like you're a [ __ ] like you are a social hand grenade get the hell out of here i have been that guy but i'm also the guy to be like oh yeah it's dumb i shouldn't have done that yeah so um yeah there's a lot of stuff like that how did forged and fire come about i was going to college it's really here's how i think it came about and then there's how it did come about i was going to college for film and and i had left everything contracting everything to just focus on college and and i was living off the va i mean it was rough it was rough uh you know i had no money i was starving i took a job at a gym i'm [ __ ] personal trainer and you know i fired clients i was like i'm not working with you anymore you i'm and people were paying that's the move though yeah that is the move yeah get rid of the [ __ ] bags uh yeah and and but my my my management didn't see it that way they were like you could understand that you were probably a subcontractor yeah exactly because they're charging 150 bucks a month to work out with me but i'm only getting 29 of them you know what i'm saying and that is yeah so so uh you know when i fired a client for like just being lazy like i'm not gonna freaking waste my time to to come here and just chit chat with you you know as a female client and i'm like it's not my bag i don't care you're not good looking enough for me to freaking come here every day and just watch you schlep around like you're here to you hired me for a purpose and that's the kind of attitude i brought to the training game like i'm ready to work and um and uh so anyway i was doing that [ __ ] i got fired from my personal training job for not being a team player in other words not making them more money and uh and i was cool with that because i had just picked up some contracting work you know work you know again teaching t triple c and but it was a conflict because i would have to drive and then come back to college and then my college was pretty strict about not missing classes and stuff like that and tell you the truth i'd rather be you know focusing on my education when you say film are you talking about the mechanics of how it is made i mean what do you i went to film school specifically to become a screenwriter okay you know what i mean and and but the film school that i went to the new york film academy it was the first bachelor's program that they had for screenwriters so it's me and two other veterans two navy brothers and then uh and then five other guys you know from from all over the place and let me tell you they were introduced to a whole different way of like behavior in the classroom expectations in the classroom you know if you shut up without pages you're supposed to have 10 pages you should open up pages and be like dude what the [ __ ] you where are your pages like i wrote 10 where you where are your pages i just couldn't come up with anything i'm like great garbage i don't care you know what i mean so we me and the navy guys we i think we made it fun because we were a little bit appropriately irreverent but at the same time you know we were also very professional like i would have the guys over to my house you know doing writer's groups and stuff like that i i took it seriously you know i really wanted to be a screenwriter in the business and uh and then you know i think when i was going to college in the middle of that summer i had an agent from the other two shows that i did and he saw me at the gym one day like schlepping around picking up picking up [ __ ] lazy [ __ ] weights like re-racking weights for people and he saw me and he was like almost ashamed you know what i mean and i had turned down jobs like are you tougher than a boy scout i'm like this is just a show that's supposed to make adults look like [ __ ] i'm not involved in that i turned down some stuff outright and stuff that was like guaranteed money and so he didn't understand my attitude towards the business because when i got into it i was like i want to be successful i want to make money i want to be able to sustain myself in this business that's what i'm that's what i'm all about and he probably heard that me and you'll take everything i'll take anything and everything that comes across the table and he's a good guy really good guy i got along with him well but i think we had differences of of opinion and and what directions i should take my career in you know and he's the experienced guy he reps some big big names and uh and so finally he hit me up with this thing and he's like yeah forged a fire once the you know there's this thing forged in fire fly out to fly out to new jersey do a screen test and and see if they like you so i did it and um i had i looked exactly like i do right now i put my hair up in a ponytail i showed up with a beer and you know i i like jewelry i don't know why i like jewelry like and i think i had like my dog tags on and there was there's another thing hanging around my neck and then of course i got like rings on every finger and and um and and and david baker was there and jay nielsen was there and i knew david from 2007 and then you know i kind of learned about the concept of the show we did a screen test and i got along with david i got along with just like i had before i got along with jay as a knife maker and i was really honest i was like i know a little bit because of dungeons and dragons i played that [ __ ] man somebody told me it was about devil worship i was like i gotta explore this you know what i mean like let's get into it i said yes to everything man so uh so i i went and you know i i went there with a with a small working knowledge of what's going on like i said ham and line the first time instead of hamon line you know i didn't know how things were pronounced and they corrected me and it was funny and we had a good time and and they and they hired me but you know nobody knew what it was gonna be you know it's just chopped with swords you know chopped with knives and and it was uh you know that's how he got hired here's how i think it really went down are you ready for this yes in 2015 i wrote a a treatment and did a sizzle for a show that i wanted to call what it takes it was all about a competent military competition style show that kind of pulled guns back from the forefront of things and and kind of push forward all of these other capabilities that guys have to have to be successful in special operations and the whole idea is you break you know these competitors down into teams who have a proctor or or somebody that shepherds them through and teaches them everything that they need to know as if it's a you know an indoctrination course or a buds or something like that but like pulling guns back from the forefront and it was so well done between me and my manager at the time that we got some meetings you know we got some meetings and and i was able to pitch it uh to a company and uh i remember damon zwicker was in the room and then there was an executive named corey henson and me and russ we went into the room and man i was ready i was ready i'd even rehearse the pitch you know what i mean like and when i get into a room like and i'm excited about something i i can really throw down you know and so i get in and we got the video prepped i have like all of this you know that i've got the the pitch deck put together and i pitched this whole show this is 19 maybe yeah right around 19 december of 2015. and um and we get into a conversation and then and then corey's got a handbag that damon kind of moved out of a chair and put on the floor she's like oh don't put that handbag on the floor you should i put it up here on my desk and then my partner or manager russ saw that it was an expensive handbag because oh typical [Laughter] and he's in the middle of a divorce this guy he goes oh typical and i give a double take she was like what and he goes oh yeah my my soon to be ex-wife same [ __ ] the expensive stuff on the floor don't put it on the [ __ ] floor damn it like put it up put it make sure you take care of that it's being really sarcastic kind of a dick thing to say at an awesome time and and damon looked at me because they hadn't met russ yet and i'd met damon before and and i i think i'd run into cory maybe one time through some audition stuff and damon looked at me and he looks at russ and and he kind of gives this weird look and corey didn't know what to do and and we just kind of barreled through you know i mean just kind of pushed through and that the pitch ended up she had a lot of questions we went for a whole hour you know i mean if you got a if you've got a meeting that goes for a whole hour or somebody listens to your garbage for an hour it's a good start it's going pretty good and then when we're leaving like you know we're we're leaving russ pulls out his phone and he starts showing trying to show corey all of his wife's expensive shoes and he's kind of it's like kind of having this [ __ ] talk conversation and me and damon had already stepped out of the room and i'm kind of watching this through the doorway and damon's like get them the [ __ ] out of there and so i go in and i grab rest i was like russ we're [ __ ] leaving and i grabbed him and dude that was the end of our professional relationship me and russ i couldn't believe you know how offensive he was being in that meeting so i sent corey an email about a week later said hey i'm following up and she sent me a nice email back yeah we're going to be looking at this into the new year we really like the concept you know you know uh it will reach out to you then well come january there's an article on deadline or whatever freaking entertainment magazine there is that she's left this uh agency where we pitched this thing and gone over to fox okay she left them with the fox i'm like okay whatever about a month later i get the call for forged and fire i fly out i do the thing i meet the the producer there and we develop a relationship and i just move forward as if nothing's happening and then we come up for season two of forged and fire same producer same uh supervising producer comes in and he starts talking to me about this new show that he's working on with uh paul cena john cena john cena with john cena he's like i'm working on this new show it's called american grit i think that's cool he's like it's really kind of this like military thing where there's these military mentors and they're taking these guys and they're teaching them all this stuff and and uh it's a really great show and i was like that's [ __ ] funny i said i pitched a show just like that to corey henson at whatever production i liked this i think it was in december of last year he goes that's my boss oh [ __ ] i [ __ ] you not he said that's my boss i was like are you [ __ ] kidding me and this guy had been kind of like pulling little bits of like i had been getting like oh yeah this the other thing you know through our relationship we had talk tactics we talked weapons we talked about some of the difficulties of filming special ops mission you know what i mean like we had talked about a lot of this stuff and uh and i remember corey saying that they were looking for a vehicle for john cena you know back when i pinched it you know she's like he's one of these guys that we like and i was like oh yeah it looks you know whatever and um and i'm not saying that that's how it went down because any at any given time there could be any number of guys who are out there pitching shows and they could be similar but i talked on the phone to brent montgomery i showed corey hanson my stuff you know what i mean before i got hired so then i get hired by the same company that's filming this show with john cena and i'm like in a position where like well do i make a stink do i say anything do i say that like hey guys i think you might uh like maybe cross the line a little bit or or is this my idea or i mean i didn't know how to address it and and the the thing is is that you just say okay i mean christopher barnes swore up and down that he pitched friends you know before it was a thing but he wasn't sure because there's so many different ideas out there so i just let it go i was like you know i don't really want to piss off the company that i'm working for you know what i mean and and i just kind of you know stuck with the forged and fire thing but i think that that's how it happened i that's how i think that it happened i think they that they had i had pitched this show they were going to run with it with somebody else but if they hire me and i'm working for them i can't make us think about it because you know they could i don't know and again this is me being a conspiracy theorist but there are so many connections in so many little things in conversations that i had with all of the players involved besides who was actually on screen i'm talking about the behind the scenes players yeah that were high enough up to make me believe like i think this was my idea you know what i mean and that's where guys get really wary about hollywood they get wary about sharing ideas and stuff like that and uh and and and it's maybe true maybe it's not i'm not sitting here making accusations because foreign fires is is the show that built my house you know i live in the house that i live in because of that show and and i appreciate uh that it did go for as long as it did for me you know what i mean and when did you start filming it what year 2015 april of 2015. and seven seasons you did right yeah seven seasons uh and plus the beat the the beat the judges competition the first six or eight episodes of that so it had to have accelerated pretty quickly because that's only we're talking what a five-year time period seven plus seasons yeah well what what ended up happening was you know the first season was eight episodes excuse me the first season was eight episodes because that's how they do everything yeah they gotta make sure there's an appetite you're gonna dip our toe in the water it was eight episodes nobody knew how it was gonna go you know i was standing at the end of that table for the entire time that the guys were forging you know what i mean so it's a lot of standing for me where the other dudes are like sitting down and i've never stood in one place for so long in my entire life that's why you had that little rubber pad that they tried to camouflage by making it the same color yeah yeah that was the that was the answer to the standing stand on this it's what chefs use you know i mean but like even still like if i took a step to the left or right in that first season they'd be like we'll get back on your mark get back on your mark so there was a little bit of growth with how i work i operate how i host how i move and and like you know the even the direction of the conversations at the table you know what i mean like just do what you do well captain of the ship you don't know anything about knives just ask questions [Laughter] so i did so i did and that's what we did and and i learned a lot and and and the judges learned a lot but i'm also the kind of guy that questions things you know so there was a lot of conflict the first season the show the last episode i can remember we were having a deliberation and in no way am i a judge i'm not a judge i'm not arguing with anybody about about uh your decision compared to his decision when it comes down to it i want to get down to the logic behind the individual decisions the why and doug markita actually threatened he's like oh i'll go to my car and i'll get my sword and you get your sword and we'll have a [ __ ] sword fight nah he's like this is my [ __ ] that's a hard pass on that and it was like first of all you don't have a [ __ ] sword in your car because you don't have a car here and this i said this to him i was like second of all i would [ __ ] shoot you because i'm not an edged weapons expert i i i do guns i manage distances in a different way i said but if you're getting this angry you know about what's going on you know you're this passionate about it you gotta you gotta explain yourself you know what i mean you gotta be able to break it down and and that's what i i would say that's what i'm an expert at is just getting to the root of things by irritating somebody to the point where they just scream out why they're making the decision that they're making and if i don't understand you i'm just gonna keep asking you questions like like a little kid who just doesn't give up you know and um so you know at first it was uh it was heavily it was just me learning about the process of knife making and and then also i didn't like how reality tv a lot of times with like some of these shows turns into a catty little [ __ ] fest you know what i mean between the contestants you know what i mean and then and and i didn't want that i was like you know you guys are here to highlight something that's supposed to be really [ __ ] cool i mean the idea of learning to make a knife and it dates back to antiquity you know what i'm saying like like be professional when you're out there you know do you don't get to quit nobody gets to quit unless they're having a [ __ ] heart attack which is happening i saw somebody quit on the show oh yeah yeah one guy was like absolutely not and i don't [ __ ] blame him i i actually don't blame him there was a guy that was a master smith and the weather was [ __ ] sweltering he's an older guy and it was a coal forage day and he was just one of the hottest most wretched days that you can possibly imagine we were shuttling the smiths in and out of like air cond poorly air-conditioned buildings and he just had enough i said you already got a name you already got a name you're already successful guy you know you don't no reason to die out here you're not proving that you're a good knife maker right now you're proving that you're a good competitor you know what i mean that that's really what it is it's like the the stamina and all that stuff you're proving that you're good at the forged of fire competition like ben abbott you're good at the forged and fire competition you know what i mean but you were never a professional knife maker before that you were just some engineer and like hey let's say you were making really nice knives for your friends and neighbors you you weren't in you know that's not what you're doing it for a living you know what i mean when forged and fire started validating smith's as professionals that's when i had a real [ __ ] problem like if your validation as a knife maker came from competing on forged and fire i'll say it to this day it's still not a great validation because you just made the best worst knife that day or the least worst knife i was going to say it's not like you're giving them uh the amount of time that they had to craft they're basically jamming ten pounds of [ __ ] in a five pound bag as quickly as possible exactly and there are guys that are really exceptional at it did great work but even bert foster when he was there if you picked up one of his finished pieces from the time competition the the actual in our forge time competition it was not it's a [ __ ] show it's not a [ __ ] show but like you know there's flaws you know what i mean like like he's got the best forged and fire knife yeah that i've ever seen you know just don't look at it too closely yeah but again if you give them three hours exactly but that's part of the competition though so here's a stress a question for you on this because again having worked on a tv show which i'll never do again i understand how much shooting actually goes into a 44 minute episode we're talking days so of course when the show starts it's like your time starts now and the clock starts going down is that actually done in a day well the actual forging when the clock is running i we only stopped the clock or reset the clock a few times and it was after a heavy deliberation between the judges and the producers you know what i mean like if we put more time on the clock or something like that is and there were times that we we had to extend the time because nobody was going to finish the challenge like you had to extend the time another 30 minutes um so there were times that things like that were done it was talked about with the smiths you talk about it with the judges with the producers is this fair is it legal what we're doing according to the rules and stuff that we've laid that's right because there's a cash prize at the end of the day there's a cash prize right so like is it legal what we're doing in in legalities when it comes to uh those kinds of cash prize shows that's federal law you know what i mean like you're getting into you're getting into uh some federal stuff you know what i mean felonio you know if you start violating that stuff you're going to jail you know so uh i remember quiz show back in the day it was a huge hoax they were giving the guy the [ __ ] answers yes yeah so it's that that's why all this stuff exists now you're not defrauding the american people [Laughter] so so then uh you know so every now while the clock was running that [ __ ] was real like that i mean i wouldn't necessarily be there for the whole three hours standing up like we were in the first and second seasons well i mean because there's i'm assuming there's multiple cameras yeah yeah do they go three hours straight or do they get that oh they're swapping out the camera guys and i'm gonna say this for all of the heartache that i have with maybe some of the upper echelons of television production and the politics behind it the [ __ ] boots on the ground guys the camera guys the freaking audio the pas the kid that's pouring freaking chips onto a paper plate for everybody to kind of just because he doesn't know any better to kind of everybody eat from the same paper plate you know like all those guys they're jobbing out you know they're the 12 hour a day guys you know so again like when i'm bitching about like how things are on set or how slow things are these are the people that are actually jobbing out behind the scenes they're the privates the sergeants there you know they're the guys that are making it happen and then they just throw me up there for a few minutes and and uh you know in a lot of ways you reap all the the scrutiny and glory from that in in in a lot of ways when in reality the focus should be on those dudes that are out there banging on those [ __ ] knives you know what i mean and and all of those camera guys all of the all of that crew that goes into those 50 people i [ __ ] love them man and it was like a forged family and when they had issues like with getting travel pay or or you know stuff like that when we moved from new york where they all lived to connecticut and they still commuted to come up and work with us you know not getting travel pay and stuff like i i was the guy that said something i was like these guys should be getting this because the uh uh swag you know [ __ ] tv show swag you've seen it [ __ ] handed out yeah were buying all the swag we bought all this way anything that you see that has forged and fire on it me and mark ida were buying that [ __ ] and handing it out to the crew and yeah i intentionally skipped over some [ __ ] one year yeah you don't get a hoodie pal you know what i mean like no because this is this is actually what you should be doing you know what i mean like we're seven seasons in and doug's buying the hats for everybody you know what i mean and it's just one of those atta boys that you're not entitled to you know what i mean but there's there just wasn't enough attaboy for the crew like good job you guys are doing amazing even like they're supposed to be they're the spokes that make the goddamn wheel turn anyway yeah even like rap parties the director you know fawns trinidad i [ __ ] love this guy and he he was a guy that's like please man just like keep it contained you know like one of the best [ __ ] directors i've ever worked for one of the most low-key guys he handles everything in stride and you want to talk about working with extreme personalities fawns is the dude you know what i mean and and even fawns you know would would like fork out of his own pocket for like a wrap party you know what i mean like we're going to go to the bar to drink limit whatever and you know whoever wanted to go could go and and kind of decompress from the season because there is a lot of stress and strain that comes from being every day on that set you know making that show and it is dangerous in a lot of ways people fall people get hurt weapons break doug markite is in the hospital again doug marcotte's brother cut his fingers off you know what i mean there's stuff that's happening i got hit in the dick with a spiked bat on one of the unveils it wasn't strapped down it swung around and hit me right in the crotch and then i picked the bat up and like beat something with it and it was like hey tie this [ __ ] down you know what i mean i was angry but at the same time you know i mean things happen and you go with it and or you don't yeah and uh and i think for me it i love the crew i love the crew i love like working with those guys and and some of the producers were absolutely great too but at the end of the day you know it does get to a point where you know i told an executive producer i said don't think i'm not watching everything that you're doing everything that you're doing every move you make every decision that you make and how you're maneuvering things around on this set i'm sorry i should say supervisors and producers i said don't think i'm not gonna i'm not watching that i said i'm a smart guy and you're doing what i want to be doing one day i want to be writing and producing my own stuff i said i'm watching you know so just keep that in mind you know what i mean i'm not just some dude that sits up here and is content to say something that you've scripted for me i i mean i'll read through the script but i'm not going to say exactly what you want me to say i'm going to make it mine you know and and anything that was at that table uh rarely scripted the conversation it never scripted i'm gonna say between me and those judges every now and again i'd hear something maybe through my tinnitus you know producers screaming out to ask one of the judges this one thing and i would get irritated if we covered it already they've already covered that i'm not asking again but you have to understand that they just need to see me asking that again so they could put that content on if a camera wasn't on you did it actually happen yeah and so that's the balance that you have to maintain you know what i mean and and understanding that there's a relationship between not only what's going on competition wise and the integrity of the competition but also what's going on business-wise and like how are we going to turn this into a show you know what i mean if three guys quit you know when one guy wins i mean that's not really and the guy wins by default it's not really a tv show you know so they always had to fight that battle and um and again integrity is a big thing for me it's huge for me and i have been a man of little integrity at times in my life i have been a guy who lied i've betrayed i've been stabbed i've been lied to i'm a human being man and i'll tell anybody like yeah i [ __ ] up a lot of things i did some shitty things but at the same time i can acknowledge that i can go back to those individuals and be like hey yeah i was [ __ ] terrible man i still got to talk to roger sparks about like the way that i felt about our interaction as a student instructor when he had already been deployed as a marine and stuff like that i was [ __ ] hard on that guy when he came to the pj school and he got concussed one night pretty badly on a jump that i jump mastered but we got bad wins and then later on he ended up having some other things where he was paralyzed for a period of time and stuff like that and for some reason i always go back to that jump that night and i called that guy a [ __ ] and everything else in the world to try to motivate him to keep going you know i mean negative reinforcement was my thing so anyway uh uh you know i've i've been that guy but integrity is a big deal to me you know what i mean and and that american flag hanging on the wall behind me on forge to fire is my american flag and you know it represents not just me but my belief in my values my country my my uh it's just a lot represents who i am as a person and every time that that's behind me i remind myself like uh you know be the better version of yourself you know what i mean don't be the guy that sells out all the way you can't be the guy that sells out all the way you can be there's just consequences yeah and um and i'm just not and then i started to realize that maybe the most important thing to these producers wasn't my true and valid opinion on everything from safety to weapons engagement and my knowledge of combat it was just the titles that went along with my name and the naked face that they could put next to the bearded faces you know what i mean it's about demographics it's about hitting those hitting those uh you know those numbers we already got three guys with beards shave yours off i've never been felt more emasculated in my life than when i showed up on set one season and i had a beard and it was very neatly trimmed and uh the supervising producer just came in didn't even pull me off to the side in front of the whole crew he's like shaved that beard and i said not gonna happen and he said you have to i said no i don't i don't have to shave my beard it's like i'm not i'm not shaving it and so we filmed the whole day with me into the beard well that night i get a call from my agent i get a call from the supervising producer from before you know the guy who had worked with me on the first two seasons and they were like you have to do this i'm like i don't have to i said you know would you tell a woman you know that some okay if a woman had grown a beard would you come in and tell her [ __ ] shave it off would you would you i mean are we crossing on and and like it's a bad parallel but it's about the overstep it's about the overstep it wasn't even like hey man you know let me explain the situation to you can you please shave the beard off it was just like shave that [ __ ] beard yeah absent any explanation or why so the next day i shaved the beard so i shaved the beer that night next day how the [ __ ] are we gonna film what happened on day one there's no continuity i showed up the entire crew was flabbergasted they're like dude you you buckled i shaved i'm like well i talked to my wife and she said you know better to have a job than not have a job and and so i did but it was offensive to me you know i mean and there were little offenses like that little things where where somebody who had never been trained for combat said well in combat stay in your lane pal that's not your lane you're not a combatant at all nor have you ever been so for you to say in combat and act like you have any kind of valid uh a points to bring up i'd like to see the credibility behind that where's your certificate of training from the boy scouts of america where's your certificate of training from from any thing that you're saying you have trained combat or trained for combat in like did you go to an advanced fencing course let me see the let me see the cert you know what i mean and then you can say in combat yeah you know i mean even and i had a lot of heartache with these guys you know what i mean and i and and there is a lot of ego involved in the knife making community there's a lot of ego and uh just like any other community you know these guys [ __ ] give each other [ __ ] and and they give each other a hard time and but i think i think ultimately you know getting somebody to stay in their lane even me having received more classroom instruction than anybody on the making of knives and swords in the history of the world i'm going to go ahead and say nobody's just stood there and listened to lecture more than me about knife making it doesn't make you an expert just because you're just because you're uh next to it or learning about it even i could not agree more yeah so for so for these guys to start giving their expert opinions on combat operations or expert opinions on trauma even you know i'm a tactical emergency trauma care specialist bro i'll tell you how jesus came back from the dead using nothing but a what i learned using nothing but what i learned as a combat trauma specialist i will tell you how jesus came back from the dead and i can also explain how it's a miracle because it was it's a miracle of medicine is what it was i mean it's a sucking chest wound that got sealed that's it it's a sucking chest wound and and and an asphyxia it was relieved the second they took him down from the cross and put his arm down and that skin covered that hole wrapped them up protected them from hypothermia put them into a hole where they're sealed shut permanently and it took him three days to dig his way out i have now thought about that from that perspective a lot of people are gonna be really pissed when they hear that that's how i explain the resurrection of jesus christ but i wrote a whole paper on it and submitted it to george washington uh some guys i knew at george washington university and i was like i think that this accurately explains the resurrection of jesus christ using trauma care you know the whole idea of like uh you know he was already dehydrated he had already been beaten he was already hypovolemic he was already pre-hypothermic and then you hang him on a cross crucifix means to asphyxiate you know what i mean you hang him on a cross to asphyxiate and then when he's not [ __ ] dying you put give him a sucking chest wound makes him look dead rapid shallow respirations decrease free or increasing heart rate so fast you probably can't even feel the pull all those things all those signs of shock and the second that you pulled him down and that mobile skin covered that injury on his chest you just sealed up that wound you just sealed up that wound and then you wrapped them up in cloth and you put them in a nice toasty cave i'm going to be honest with you this is a topic i didn't think we were going to cover today no no no but i don't know i don't even know how we got here but what i'm saying about expertise yeah but but you're talking about you like your expertise and staying in your lane well i have studied trauma care for so long that i can take all of those principles that i learned and apply them to something like that and say this is a reasonable explanation that doesn't involve you know some people's perception of uh of the miracle okay and and and it and it was a miracle in some senses but uh you know that's how it was explained to people back then you know what i mean and so you have this expertise in all these different areas and and and and you like i start learning you know about knives from these guys and then i talk like i'm an expert which could have been offensive to them you know what i mean but it's my job as the host of that show to question everything that those guys say why why why does this matter more than that why does this matter more than that and then i have again the type of memory where i'm just going to remember everything that you say every justification that you have every time that this blade wins over this blade for that reason i'm freaking logging all that in my head because i've done military weapons testing i've done testing and evaluation i know about measurement measurement of performance you know i mean i was an instructor at the pj school i had to go to all those air force egghead courses where you had to learn about all that crap and then somebody just on wim says well they can't the handle's more comfortable and you know in combat it's really important to have a comfortable handle on your weapon what is the goofiest [ __ ] you saw occur during those seven seasons you had to have seen some hilarious [ __ ] occur in that forage yeah because i'll be honest with you i view forged and fire almost as a comedy i watch it like we were talking about earlier today i can't [ __ ] believe the number of people who given a a ridiculous timeline go i've never tried this before but i'm gonna go with this new technique well that's that [ __ ] falling apart i just i die laughing well that's i mean it's not funny because it's tragic at the same time i see it you know what i mean complete humor because i am not the one living through it i i dude so it got to a point funny for me not funny for them i get it exactly like i always tell my wife like there are things in this world that like when they're happening worst thing ever worst thing [ __ ] ever but when you get through it you look back on it it's hilarious hilarious best thing ever [ __ ] happening or whatever while it's happening terrible you know what i mean that's that's how that's how you know people who are good at dealing with trauma move forward you able to laugh and move on but um the i guess the funniest [ __ ] i don't know it's just little snippets here and there i don't know that there was any one moment it was like so hilarious that i that i could get over it um you know again i think that i was more concerned about somebody hurting themselves there's a lot of [ __ ] in that room that could damage people severely i i mean i was so worried about these these wild ass guys like hurting themselves with with equipment that they were either unfamiliar with or completely ignorant about you know what i mean i've never like you said it in the car i've never run a welder before yeah yeah yeah like okay and it got to a point or a power hammer yeah that was another one that surprised me well and here's the thing there's a ten thousand dollar power hammer in the back of the forge not everybody can afford to have one of those that does explain quite a bit of that actually and and then so i think the funniest thing some of the guys were [ __ ] hilarious because i love it when they crack back you know when you're talking [ __ ] and they can hear you and then they crack back to you perfect i love that stuff but it doesn't always make the show you know what i mean because you know they're trying to you know tell a certain story yeah you know and it's the same story over and over here i am here's what i've gone through here's what i'm trying to do today and and i hope to be a great competitor in all this and and then and then the judges judge you know uh i i never understood how a guy could show up after five or six seasons of this thing being out there not knowing how to forge weld you know that that could be one of the bigger complications that could be how about is likely going to be built into the competition so you've already set yourself up for failure that was the funny stuff to me like how a guy could just come in and like totally set himself you know what we had one guy come in during one of the partner competitions and he was a high energy guy he got in there he was forging and carrying on and like having a good ass time and then the next day he [ __ ] bolted i gotta leave i gotta leave now i'm like did you kill somebody last night what happened like the next day he showed up for competition they made it through round one and he just had to leave and he [ __ ] got on a plane and left and left his partner stranded like working by himself that [ __ ] to me is funny that stuff is slick and his buddy went on to do the the finale no way by himself yeah yeah yeah he i don't think he won but like man like you know it was those kinds of things like wild things that would happen and i always talked to the smiths before they went in i'm like this is not that [ __ ] and moan show understand that you know what you're trying to sell is yourself this is your business this is your work you're not going to make the greatest knife you ever made in your life you're just trying to do the best you can with the time that you have focus on your work don't worry about anybody else in the competition just you do your thing you know what i mean yeah and and of course i told you know you'd prep them because they these guys are staying in a room that is half this size for the entire time they're there it's like being in seer school man there's like riding on the walls like two other dudes that escaped they got they got their freaking episode number up how many days they were there you know freaking escape routes drawn out it was just it was insane and um and and that's where they spent all their time you know and and i felt bad for them in that sense that they were corralled like that i felt like it was really an injustice to the stars of the show you know and and then so when i talked to him it was all about like patience dude like it takes 250 hours of footage to make this show what it is and there's a lot of sets and resets and lighting and and camera stuff that's to be taken care of and while i'm explaining it to them and getting them to understand it i'm also a hypocrite and that i don't understand why the [ __ ] it's taking so long to get those cameras moved around [ __ ] mechanically how long would it take you to record an episode is it a couple four to five for me personally it was uh three to four days for an episode because you would have the first round yep and then you would have the second round and then the guys went home for their their whatever they'd come back for testing well you know it i think when we first started up it was like four to five days you know you the three hours to forge was a whole day there's a whole day of filming you got in you shot clean reads you know to make sure and when clean reads that's just me on camera doing the intros the outros you know some of the the weapon stuff like when the weapons up there sometimes the smiths wouldn't be standing in front of me and you do like a clean read through you know i mean so if i miss anything or make a mistake you know they got it and then they bring the smiths out and that was usually my best stuff to tell you the truth i loved it when like interacting with the smiths because i'm tired of talking to you guys tired like so tired of it you know after after so many years and and uh so like the smiths i really enjoyed interacting with the smiths more than anything else and i and and i was all about learning from the crew at the end like next thing you know i'm like hanging out with the camera guys and i'm like hey how does this work what is this what's that you know what lens do you have on there you know what are you doing when you're not working on forged and fire would you be interested in kind of doing a thing with me independently and then there's also the contract stuff like what can i do independently and for a long time i couldn't do [ __ ] i couldn't even be in my own documentary that i filmed in 2016. really yeah not without their consent not without not without the the sign off of the production company because they own you you know so there was there was a lot of like every time i renegotiated it seemed like there was i'm not good at negotiating contracts because it's not what i do you know i mean it's not what i do i know what i think i should be getting i know what i think you know uh other you know what i think my performance is worth but does that line up with their budgets and stuff like that so there were a lot of battles uh my agent i think was really at the end of his rope with me at the end because i'm a little bit of a prima donna you know what i mean for for four years my my trailer this two by [ __ ] six trailer that grady powell now sits in is on top of the the [ __ ] trailer that is also the [ __ ] box with everything which is everybody on set all 50 plus people the smiths everybody shits in this [ __ ] box all day long which is fine because i got my own little private toilet right there too but like in the middle of the summer time it's leaking freaking you know human fluids and stuff like that i'm not staying in there i'm not standing there i'm going to wander around your set i'm going to wander around your set and i'm going to get in the [ __ ] and i'm going to take knives off the wall to go freaking take pictures of them someplace else and i used to tell them i'm disruptive i'm not i'm not i'm i'm more of a disruptive force in that sense you know i couldn't be in that one little space and it and it really started to get to me even even like the one bedroom apartment or the two-bedroom apartment that you provided you know i mean living in new york is one of the most lonely places in the world you could live i lived in a hotel for the first two seasons and then we had some apartments after that and i was able to bring my wife you know but she's it was different it was a different kind of thing and you're doing it all the time all day every day somebody picks you up at home drops you off at home you don't have a car there you take a subway everywhere you want to go stanford connecticut was a commuter city and then my wife got pregnant and i couldn't get my own projects off the ground and i was really frustrated with a lot of things and and i i wanted time i wanted some time to like work on i thought that i was for a long time i got really separated from my background you know i mean from my brothers you know what i mean i wasn't doing the emergency trauma care classes anymore so i wasn't getting that connection to the to the dudes to the fellas doug markita was like my connection to veterans but he's very busy posting on instagram he's doing it right now i guarantee you uh you know there's only so much i could talk about knives and swords you know what i mean that's somebody else's area of expertise like you know i i know a lot about it you know i can make a [ __ ] great knife i i guarantee you i can't ask jason i he freaking him between him and jay nielsen and even ben abbott and and dave they freaking got me spun up i can make a good knife you know what i mean but is that what i was going to do for a living is that what i'm an expert at absolutely not absolutely not so i i was very restless and i had gone and talked to one of the executive producers at a e about like some of the things that i wanted to do some of the projects that i wanted to do and and he didn't seem like he was very receptive to those ideas and if he was receptive he's like ah maybe we could like turn it into some commercials for veterans day or something like that and i'm like nah you know i think this is a subject that deserves a little bit more attention this veterans transition project and and uh you know i had my wife and i had filmed a documentary about her family's business and i think it's interesting and definitely relevant in today's culture about the marijuana industry and uh and there just wasn't a whole it's just be the host of forged and fire just just shut up and you know we'll get you a commercial we'll have you do a commercial for dodge or ram or something like that and you're like okay that's cool i [ __ ] love that it's great i get to do a dodge commercial get to do a ford commercial i get to go to the ford factory hell yeah man that stuff was awesome awesome let's talk more about the job let's talk more about like what's going on let's talk a little bit more about expanding about moving into different areas like because this forged fire for me was getting very very stale yeah and it took up so much of my time and it took my my wife and i away from our family and our home and and uh and with the baby coming i think it it and she started having seizures and stuff like that uh in the third trimester of pregnancy and then you know we're doing the beat the judges there were some huge personality conflicts that came up uh and i'm going to go ahead and say that i was the person that pushed those conflicts because i felt like we were we were shifting from some things that had made us successful and um and i was very adamant and very open about how i felt about things i'd never threatened to kill anybody i'll say that like doug's the only person ever threatened to kill anybody that i know it was me but uh but it turned into a thing where you know i was really butting heads with the producers on set and then i started quoting some contract stuff i was like according to paragraph yada yada yada yada they probably didn't like that no no you know and and then it turned i started to feel a little bit like a like i was trying to you know really talk to my chain of command and they weren't listening and that's how i felt that's why i only did one year in the reserves you know i mean they never gained me as a as a as a reservist i was a civilian for a year jumping out of their planes and doing operations and doing free deployment prep i did 100 man days in the reserves technically a civilian technically a civilian the holy violates paperwork you know what else one signature on one piece of paper and when and and i was supposed to have a bone there was a lot of stuff that came down and i went to my chain of command and it was they were just like you know you got to sort it out you sort it out just sign it i'm like well what about the year that i did what about all this stuff what about all this time that i put in what about my bonus that i was supposed to get at the end of the year you'll get it next year famous last word if it was your money and your issues and and stuff like that to be a whole different story so so i started to feel a lot like that you know what i mean with with the show i started to feel a little bit like um like they were and again this is just me i felt i felt like there was some manipulation going on and i was very vocal about it very vocal about it i felt like guys weren't staying in their lane and i was very vocal about it and i brought up to david baker the fact that he was doing an entirely different thing in 2007 than what he was doing now you know what i mean i've met you i know you i know what you've been doing up to this point you know what i mean i went to his shop when he was filming deadliest warrior when he was doing all the weapons for deadliest warrior and it the way he was making weapons then was a lot different than the way that he started making weapons with forged and fire yeah and i can say that as a prop maker he probably learned a lot from the real knife makers that were out there uh and then i had a huge problem with a two-time champion uh forged in fire being one of the judges i'm like his only validation comes from our show but somehow that has turned into some sort of qualifying thing you know what i mean i got my fortune fire badge i'm ready to be a [ __ ] ranger now you know what i mean i got my ranger tab i'm a ranger and then and and the forge of fire champion thing again it is a great accomplishment you know what i mean in a time competition but that doesn't make you an expert at what you do and ben abbott is a [ __ ] amazing smith an amazing bladesmith he does highly technical work i think he's i think he's great and i think he does a great job of explaining himself i don't know if he's necessarily the best guy for that job you know what i mean in a lot of ways and i didn't think that he was but we rolled with it you know what i mean i don't know how he ended up taking over half of what jay nielsen was supposed to come back and do after his injury but it happened you know what i mean and then and then when we got into the beat the judge's competition you had the judges judging one another and right from the get-go i was against it i was like the judges should not be judging one another baker and abbott are next-door neighbors hey familiar the familiarity is going to naturally lend favoritism to one guy or the other and then there's the egos that are involved you know what i mean like all the judges are competing that that make blades you know what i mean and there's been a lot of and i'm the biggest for stirring a pot i i do i compare all of them to each other is that you think that's what jay would do do you think that that's what ben would do well ben jay said this jay ben said that dave freaking you know i would pit them against one another because that's my job you know to get them to freaking look at things from different perspectives and and to also ignite that conversation you know what i mean to question the decisions that they're making you want to know why at home right yeah why are you making that decision so do i and when i don't understand it or it doesn't jive with the the standard that's been set i had a huge problem with that you know what i mean it just because was never a thing if you were making that decision based on skills that you don't have i had a huge problem with that you know i even doug mark haida at the end he tried to talk to me at the gym one day and i was like look here's the problem that i have i was like everybody here is talking about the efficacy of these weapons in combat and how they work in combat and in combat keeps coming up and i was like and quite frankly i was like not a single one of us not even [ __ ] me knows about what it's like to be in [ __ ] combat i was like even you i said you're an edged weapons expert doug that's great yeah with a [ __ ] current when did you become an expert with a [ __ ] claymore you know what i mean like you've got your opinion it's based off a certain amount of [ __ ] knowledge but your word isn't isn't like set in stone it's not it's not like you're you're moses or something you know what i'm saying like there is room for questioning a lot of this stuff especially when it when it goes against your own decisions in the past ben abbott wore a shirt with something that i said with a quote from me on it that says uh performance is secondary or looks or secondary to performance he has a shirt he had a shirt made that he would wear around looks her secondary to performance will willis i'd say in that beat the judges competition that [ __ ] did not apply it did not [ __ ] apply and i had a huge problem with it i had a huge problem with it and i said the judges shouldn't be judging one another we should have brought in past champions or other knife makers to come in and judge you know what i mean i i a lot of times it was i mean i got into big arguments i got into big big arguments and when i started quoting contracts and talking about game manipulation and and talking about um and talking about uh paragraph 7a you know what i mean like yeah i was like i don't want to be involved in any of this stuff well now that you have what seems like some open runway in front of you and choices to do what you want what are your plans what do you want to do well you know i started this thing in 2016 called the veteran transition project you know it was originally the american walkabout where i was driving across the country and i was trying to get my head on straight i think more than anything and i was talking to veterans about their successes you know transitioning out of the military and i never really have finished that project you know i mean even some of the files are so old now they're like corrupted so i i'm going back through and i'm trying to try to fix this documentary and follow up on my promise to people i did a crowdfunding campaign i still got all the money from that crowdfunding campaign just sitting in a bank account you know what i mean to to to get this thing done and i hired an editor and i got an editor to work on it and it just didn't turn into what i wanted it to be you know and it's hard to watch yourself go through this stuff but what i want to do is kind of the same thing but with my wife and son take them to meet these veterans who are doing great things and have these interesting jobs or who are who are doing these great programs not just veterans anybody that's part of that same community and looking to inspire and lead the people around them and just kind of do uh you know like what you do here but on the road you know what i mean like you know i like talking to people i like learning new things i like asking questions and um and i like and i like traveling around and when i think about what i'm really good at uh it's a story that's it i'm i'm good at the story and i like to hear them just as much as i like to tell them and i think everybody out there has an interesting story to tell it's about getting to the root of what that story would mean to somebody else or the rest of the the rest of the world you know i do not believe that everybody has an interesting story no i feel like there are some [ __ ] dum-dums out there yeah but even that's interestingly how the [ __ ] did you end up walking down the street at 6 00 a.m in a night gown with feet so [ __ ] black they look like the asphalt that i'm driving on and uh you know how does that happen that's an interesting story i want to be a fly on the wall and this is a true story i saw this woman just walking down the road in san diego 6 a.m night gown young woman feet the color of the freaking road you know what i mean and she looked rough and all i wanted to know was like when you walked out of the door this morning what made you think that was okay to just be wearing a nightgown like i i just wanted to be there for that decision meth is a hell of a drug yeah but the actual decision like the point where they're like nah this is okay again meth is a hell of a drug you never know what uh who's making the decisions yeah but even that in and of itself is an interesting story there are a lot of guys that have that have turned to drugs you know i told you how i started smoking weed again even that is an interesting story to me and somebody else might find it applicable you know how how did this help you out you know and and uh you know so that's that's what i'm all about i'm all about like a good story telling stories i'm doing some advising stuff or you know for uh for some films um i had a guy reach out to me who i really respect uh in the industry i've never met him i just respect him for his legacy i guess uh reached out to me and and has been asking me to to work with him on some projects you know bringing what little military experience i have to his projects just to add a little bit of uh what he would call no [ __ ] you know like just the noblesville desperately needed in that industry yeah i've done a little bit of ta type stuff hey man you want to talk about a battle between authenticity and entertainment yeah entertainment winning out 90 of the time because that's what you're doing it for you're doing it for entertainment and and anybody that's watching any movie that has military [ __ ] in it it's not always authentic even that navy seal movie that came out that was all a hundred supposed to be a hundred percent real documentary are we talking about charlie sheen no no no no we're talking about another one active valor active valley [ __ ] show out development yeah yeah even that one my big brother forced me to go watch that with them you're never gonna get that time back and this is one of the arguably one of the worst movies ever created and that's you know that's the thing that's the thing we're really good at what we do when it comes to like actions on the objective understanding again weapons and tactics that part of the movie was great the acting portion and that's what i was going to say spoiler alert people they weren't actors not necessarily the best at acting like we know what we're doing correct you know what i mean and and and and and there were some during the military free fall thing when they're supposed to be hay hoeing and they're like got their masks off and [ __ ] like when i saw that right away i was like well that's horse [ __ ] because you have to pre-breathe for 30 minutes on the first round before you ever go up yeah i was like so you're not having that conversation with the [ __ ] at 30 grand it's not [ __ ] happening six minutes yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and and so again even when they're you know flying that flag that says authentic military tactics so you're like not so much we tried we tried dialogue is tough with that horse bag on your face yeah yeah and then look at and then look at john wick everybody thinks that's that's what tactical shooting is supposed to be and you're like this is a [ __ ] comic book you do realize yeah that this is a comic book and if you can view that movie through the lens of a comic book it's amazing it's [ __ ] amazing but if you try to view it through the lens of authenticity it's it's a little bit rougher those things are kicking your ass i know i don't know what's going on with them it's like my hair is rejecting them i've enjoyed it though for the last few hours watching you back is there a left and a right on these sons of [ __ ] you get to choose i'm not somebody you it's like my hair like even a hat nowadays my hair just pushes it away like no don't cover the flow how many uh jumps do you have over 200 over 200 i jump mastered more than i ever jumped you know what i mean because uh because you would just do multiple passes with students but over 200 jumps was one of my favorite aspects of the job i see first time i did a free fall jump i was like yep and this is definitely a path that i want to pursue i i i had 40 jumps i think 42 jumps coming out of the ranger battalion so when i got stationed in iceland right out of pj school uh within six months of getting there they had a jump master slot open up at the combat uh control school but you still had to have the army requisite 40 jumps well most of these guys had like a [ __ ] ton of free fall jumps but no static line jumps they weren't quite there but i had them i was like i got the jumps they're like you're going to jump master school after six months at the unit so there's a little bit of resentment there right animosity yeah a little bit of resentment but i was like hey guys i was a ranger before too don't forget i'm not just some guy that's right out of the schoolhouse and and so i went to the combat control jump master school and uh with guys like uh chris tellsworth and uh you know mike atkins god rest him in uh you know didn't tellsworth serve at the 24th yeah he was so it was mike so they were at the 2-4 when i went with them so chris was uh he augmented our squadron with him quite a bit i believe he was the jessica lynch pj if i'm if i'm not necessarily right i was just outside the door yeah yeah we were there together on that yeah so there you go yeah the degrees of separation get smaller and smaller yeah crazy small i was actually blown away when you threw out joe barnhart's name yeah yeah yeah joe yeah i i like joe a lot in in in and again chris tellsworth i liked him a lot and and you know these are all guys with different personalities you know what i mean in in i never imitated anybody else's personality but there were times that i wish that i could be more like a mike atkins you know what i mean more times i wish i could be like more reserved and less of a uh i guess what you would call a mary andrew you know i mean i'm one of those guys that like i love to laugh and have a good time and shoot the [ __ ] but and then when it's time to work it's time to work you know i you know i'm the last guy running to my run into the helo because i was shooting the [ __ ] with somebody inside you know that but i get it yeah i'm the guy that everybody hates what the [ __ ] man this [ __ ] guy yeah where can people find you we've been at this for over three hours have we yes i told you i like to talk man that's actually i'm sorry no that's a good podcast guest yeah well a bad podcast guest would be somebody you ask a complicated question to or an open-ended question the answer is no like [ __ ] yeah no i i i to my own to my own probably detriment i talk too much you know but um people can find right now i'm just doing like an instagram thing you know i i turned off my comments a while back after somebody was like i hope your wife and baby die in a car accident that's a rough one and i didn't like that so i turned off comments for a a long time and and i really started thinking about like is this necessary you know for me to to to be involved with people that i don't even know you know is it right for them to be able to come at me and say things without it and like look man my homies like if if i ever did anything to offend you or i [ __ ] something up and you come at me and you're like dude you're [ __ ] [ __ ] and you did this i'm like okay yeah i deserve that but if you don't know me you've never been around me never worked with me you know because there are a lot of guys that know me from like what other guys have said yeah you know what i mean and you've got a lot to say about it you better freaking do your homework you better pack your bags and you better be ready for some snapback because what i decided when i turned my comments back on was that i wasn't gonna just let somebody say whatever they want to me i would call them out on inappropriate stuff if you if you come out you say oh you're a [ __ ] idiot i hate you well that's great you know i'm glad like last night's a perfect example somebody was like you write or [ __ ] [ __ ] die on my instagram something like that like you're just saying it's something ridiculous like you're a big rooster that's what he said you're just a [ __ ] rooster i don't know what that means and that's what i said i said i don't know what that means but if it's supposed to mean that i'm a big [ __ ] you're right and you noticed and then heart heart heart kiss kiss kiss whatever which probably twisted that person into orbit yeah yeah yeah so it's it's those kinds of people that i have a problem with it's those kinds of reactions i'm all about having it and i curse a lot and just because you curse doesn't mean that you're being disrespectful it's part of our vernacular now everybody does it you know what i mean uh uh i'm gonna say everybody does it there isn't anybody that i know that doesn't let one slip every now and again and uh and and i use it as a verbal pause i'm a [ __ ] chicken from way back [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ] you know i do it yeah and and i have a way of like talking that is very much my own and but it doesn't mean that i'm trying to be disrespectful to anybody you know and i and i'm never out there looking to tear anybody else's freaking uh struggle apart you know and that's what a lot of times people people are looking to do they're looking to take what they're feeling take their emotion and project that out into the world and i understand it i really do i understand where you're coming from but projecting all that emotion uh and all of the fear and all the hatred and all the anxiety and stuff that you have you projecting it out into the world to people who cannot do anything about it is is the wrong answer you know what i mean if you want to have a conversation back and forth about a difference of opinion that's fine we can do that and i can tell you where i'm coming from you can tell me where you're coming from and [ __ ] i'm wrong a lot i put out bad numbers about aids a while back and i'll come back and tell you like i was wrong about that here's a website where you can find all the information i'm not an uh uh i'm not google you know what i mean so a lot of times you know i'm just pulling information or where i'm paralleling something you know off the top of my head and people want to say oh guy you're tom brokaw you should have done your research i'm not [ __ ] tom brokaw i'm some douche bag who freaking force gumped his way into television you know and and and for you to to to sit in your home and say like uh you should be this or you should be that you know how many people i've had i've had tell me that they're disappointed in something i did but based on my military background you smoke weed you should be ashamed of yourself you're an army ranger an air force prayer rescue men i'm like and those dudes probably need weed too you know what i mean yeah you know better than antidepressants i'll tell you that uh better than alcohol i never freaking tried to fight a whole bar full of people when i when when uh when i was high you know what i mean what i what i did was i turned all of that stuff inward and i became very self-reflective and i learned to i learned to live with myself because all of that other crap is running that's just you running from yourself the drinking the whatever that's you running from everything what we did for me was help me to slow down and and really think about you know what's going on inside of me and how i could be a better person in the world and that's what i'm kind of trying you know i want to inspire people i don't want to tear anybody down i don't want to denigrate anybody's character or their background you know you got guys out there that are claiming to be you know uh stuff that they're not you know and if you need to do that for you you know in your heart of hearts you need to tell yourself that tell yourself that don't tell other people that you're something that you're not you know what i mean uh there's there's a certain amount of freedom and and relief that comes with being honest with yourself you know i mean i can be honest with myself i was uh i was an okay ranger and i was an okay pj uh i was stellar at some things and then other things i was [ __ ] absolutely terrible about at in interpersonal relationships were never my strength but to be able to say this is what hand i played in those things and be honest with myself about it has given me uh so much peace in my soul about things that that now i just want other people to realize that like you can be a complete [ __ ] up man you really can you can you can drop the ball on every decision that you ever had to make but if you freaking just stop and you draw a line and you say i'm not going to do that anymore or i'm not going to participate in that kind of behavior that kind of thought pattern anymore and you legitimately take steps in a different direction you can become the person that you imagine that you would be when you were [ __ ] 12. nobody imagined that they were going to be abusing drugs as a meth addict or a crackhead or anything like that when they were a little kid i had a vision of the type of person that i wanted to be when i grew up and that's another reason i joined the army i wanted to be a [ __ ] tough guy i want to be a badass i wanted to be somebody who other people would would follow and respect and and like stuff like that and i always wanted to lead and i was always not ready you know i mean i was always like two two maybe a little bit too uh ambitious and then and then as you get older and you experience the setbacks and and and you realize that you know you're not always right all the time you're not always you know you're not always you know going to be perfect you know what i mean and and even like the things you know what the scariest thing is the things that only you know about yourself that's the scariest [ __ ] and when you really start to confront that stuff and you start being honest with yourself about this things that only you know about yourself that nobody else knows about you you know that's when you can say all right i'm i'm moving in the right direction you know and and that's what i had to do i'd start really being honest with like uh you know the things i impulse control you got problems man you get drinking problems you get this you got that and like when i was really honest with myself and i was like i do i do have these issues and you had and you had to find a different way to engage it that's that's when i found out that like i want to i just want to help other people to to i'm not a mental health expert you know what i mean i just want to help other people realize that there is help out there there is a community of people who are just like you who have who have stumbled fallen [ __ ] ate [ __ ] like been pissing on their own chest in the middle of a [ __ ] party and and still managed to somehow continue to move forward in a direction that was positive and i'll say that after my motorcycle ride in 2000 in 2016 after i met with marty and and lindsay and antonio and i learned andrew bennett who was on the extortion 17 uh uh recovery and i met with these guys and i and i and i listened to their stories and the difficulties and successes that they were having that's when i was like okay this is a message that i want to take to to the world this is the message that i want to bring to the community is that they no matter what organization you're aligning yourself with whether it's wounded warriors or you know any of these other organizations that that are there to help veterans they're out there and they're out there to help you and and and that's where i give the military an f plus or f minus like how come you're not following up with veterans you sure worked your ass off to freaking get them in you know what i mean months years even i mean think about guys taking the latest or taking the asvab in 11th grade that recruiter will follow you around for a [ __ ] year making sure that you're staying on top of things maybe yeah all that stuff they freaking really shepherd you in and then they indoctrinate you and they teach you all of these things you need to be able to do to facilitate the military mission but the day that you retire ets freaking get booted whatever all of that support that you thought you had diminishes by i'm going to say 95 just to throw out a big percentage that sounds i'd say it's higher and then and then you got nobody your homies they're still running around doing the do if you stay in like if you stay in virginia beach and you're retired you know what you're getting you're getting a big [ __ ] slap in the face every time these guys come back from some kick-ass [ __ ] deployment and they're telling you about it and you're like oh man [ __ ] dude i wish i was on that but i was you know i was at home depot all day you know or or or you know or that sort of thing you know and and um and it's it's kind of sad that the military you know also gets rid of guys that aren't ready to go you know those dudes that are [ __ ] like badass hardcore warriors that have been in for like 20 years but their rank isn't commiserate with like how long they've been on you got to make room for the young guys you know like like this guy's a badass warrior that's not that's that's i don't think that that's a general conserve for life you know but but a guy who's like a master sergeant who's an amazing leader and and has inspired other people to be great leaders and who's still running and gunning like a brian moser or somebody like that and i say brian moser because he's the chief of the team up one of the pj teams up in long island you know this is a guy who i highly respect he was a marine before he's still a pj and i know he can still do the do but at 30 years guess what bro see you see you you know what i mean and and my dad retired after 26 i saw his transition he was like picking corn not sure what he's gonna do he had one foot in the old world never really used a computer you know means all of his personnel management skills were obsolete uh uh and and that's what happens to guys you know what i mean you get out and you don't have this you don't have this like set of standards and regulations and books that are going to tell you what you need to do and when to do it and how to dress and and how to lead and and then you just try to take the things that you know about what's effective and you apply it to whatever situation that you're in right now and the first time you call somebody a [ __ ] idiot on camera like because they because they're being a [ __ ] idiot you know it doesn't go over well yeah you know and and it's uh and it's it's something that you just say offhand dude you're a [ __ ] idiot yeah everything that you just said [ __ ] idiocy you're a [ __ ] idiot and you move on because it's a common greeting that doesn't mean that i don't think tomorrow that something that you're gonna say is brilliant you know what i mean it's just a way of expressing yourself or you know that's the kind of culture that we build where where you can be like that with one another even the females man i don't care what anybody says i've worked with a lot of females in the military not as many as some because it was special operations you know pj's all male you know ranger but times definitely all male they won a female round for miles he had to leave base for for that kind of entertainment victory drive yeah so anyway no i'm saying uh i'm saying that uh you know the the thing coming back to the female thing is uh [ __ ] what was i going with that i started thinking about victory drive and i'm assuming that's where the strip clubs were yeah the more you tip the more erotic your experience becomes that's that was the that was the motto that was the model the more you tip the more erotic your experience will get there's probably a victory drive in most cities or towns that have a military installation yeah yeah yeah and you know i'm not gonna i'm not gonna lie to you i was i was there for the full experience you know what i mean see it all when i see it all i wanted to do it all if i had been deployed to southeast asia i would have went to those places that you only hear freaking fantastical outrageous storytales about i would have gone i've been like i have to see this with my own eyes you know any anything you know somebody tells you a volcano's erupting in iceland i'm going to go [ __ ] look at it i want to see that yeah i can get aboard with that yeah closing thoughts by will willis oh [ __ ] man uh it doesn't have to be deep you know what man we here's the thing find comfort in your own skin by by really being honest with with yourself about who you are and and who you want to be in your life and and if you don't want like the person that you are that you have been or that the decisions that you've made uh one come to terms with those decisions they happen you know i mean you can't change anything that's already happened like a [ __ ] sorry i can't i don't have a time machine if i did i'd go forward i don't know that i'd go back but uh but you know try to be if if you're going through something reach out to your homies try to be a better person every day and that goes for everybody try to be a better person every day if you're if you're already the pope he's still trying to be a better person every every [ __ ] day and and and understand that everybody in the world is going through something like you said like there are some people out there that are [ __ ] idiots correct and they just are and that's how it is and there's nothing you can do about them and uh i just try to understand where they're coming from i'm not saying that i disagree with you or that they're not idiots but uh i've been that person i'm i'm i've learned everything that i do every every hard lesson i had to do it twice you know so you know i'd never judge anybody i really don't i really even if somebody's a [ __ ] serial killer i'm like at the end of that like dude you're maybe just supposed to be a predator i don't i don't know there's a psychology in there that in and stuff like that what you did is wrong absolutely but is it your fault that you are the way that you are you know what i mean is there something that could have been done to manage this stuff i tell people that i'm i was probably as a kid one bed wedding incident away from being a serial killer i think you know cruelty to animals i kicked a few cats and freaking blew up bull frogs and did nasty [ __ ] i was abused as a child what else is a serial killer freaking uh trait you know all of these traits no idea all these tricks oh i've done a lot of psychology i've read up on a lot of psychology because i'm always like what the [ __ ] is wrong with me and um and uh so you know even even with that stuff you know like how did it go the other way you know what i mean with the amount of of abuse the you know whether or not and and look my brothers and sisters will will say ah that didn't happen like that sometimes you know that didn't happen like that i'm like to you maybe it didn't happen like that to you but that's how i perceive the situation and and and uh and but i don't think any of them would disagree with me that's for sure especially about my stepmom but uh but uh i think that uh in the end everything comes out in the wash everything comes out in the wash in the end in the end at the end of your life when you get there you gotta be able to look around and and and just understand that you did your best you know i mean hopefully you did your best and and to me that's heaven knowing that when i leave this world i did my best i i fell in the house i was jackassing around with my wife and i and i smashed my head into a step and i was bleeding it was bad i knew i was [ __ ] up i knew i was concussed uh and you know my wife is there we're in this mountain home all by ourselves is the middle of winter time and i tell her you're just gonna braid my hair together you know we're not going to the hospital you're just going to braid my hair together cover you know as a stitch and we're not going to the hospital so i go upstairs and she's got me you know she's braiding my hair and looking at it at this cut i'm feeling it man i'm feeling really really woozy like i [ __ ] myself up and i've never been knocked out before and i started walking out of the bathroom i said hold on i just got to go lay down or something she's like don't lay down don't lay down and i passed out my face the last thing i remember is my face like hitting the door jam and i and i felt it i remember feeling like it definitely hit me it wasn't painful i just the feeling of like rocking back and i was out i was out and i woke up and my wife was over the top of me and she's freaking out losing her [ __ ] and i'm so i'm so unconscious that my heels are tucked up underneath my ass and i'm laying on my legs you know what i mean and i'm completely limp i just remember coming too and she's over the top of me and i grabbed and i said it's okay babe nobody had more nobody's ever had more fun than me and she's like what she's like i was like if if if i die right now and i was i was [ __ ] loopy man like i was out of it i was like if i go right now it's okay i want you to know that this has been the greatest adventure ever and that you know you know i i just told her all this and like even right now like i really meant it i was like if if this is it man i'm okay with it it's okay i remember telling her like it's okay if this is it like i had a good time i had a good time and i'm ready and i i've always had an obsession with like what's what's after you know man i don't know what it is i'm not a religious guy per se i'm very spiritual but i've always had an obsession with like like i told you i started thinking about suicide when i was when i was eight you know and and and it just kind of has followed me around this idea of death and this obsession i think about it all the time think about it all the time like how's it going to happen i hope it happens all of a sudden you know what i mean i hope it's just one of those even like with with the hope it's not a wood chipper yeah feet first but even that like okay that's how it went down but you know it's always been like that like when it when it happens it's gonna happen you don't get to choose unless you commit suicide which i'm not down for i mean i did i had a pistol in my mouth when i was in high school and i've told people about this on instagram and and i didn't do it and i and i don't think that i could ever do it and i've been close and i've called you know my big sister and i was like here's what's [ __ ] going down right now like i am losing my [ __ ] and you know i had to have that talk down and had that had to reflect on all of those feelings and and things that you go through and and people are like how could you that you have all these things you have all of these things and all of these things in your life how could you still well that's the illness you know for me you know that's my that's my own that's my own problem to deal with and not for not for anybody else to judge and and i think that i had i think that we have a lot of people out there that are scared to engage on problems like borderline personality disorder or or or depression or or and i think a lot of guys especially where we come from have borderline they've got fear of abandonment issues they have impulse control problems they have substance abuse issues and somehow you've gotten yourself into a career field that feeds your impulses and rewards them and rewards them you know what i mean like jumping out of [ __ ] planes i mean how many times have you been on the dz after a jump and you're all just jacked you're all just jacked you got that adrenaline yeah exactly you got that adrenaline rush you're all just checked and it's the same every time almost every time you get that same feeling every time but then you just want it more and more and more and more like it's a drug you know what i mean and i i used to tell my students like when you when you're looking to step off the end of that ramp i guess you got to be okay with dying you got to be okay with it because you jump in a chute in the air force at least that somebody else [ __ ] packed and who knows what kind of day that guy had when he packed your parachute so when you make that decision i hope that you're ready you know i mean i hope that you've got everything squared away and i hope that you know you're not leaving anything you know left behind because i don't feel like i don't feel like there's anything in the world that i've wanted to do that i didn't chase after and accomplish in some way and and i think that it's important for people to do that it's okay to do that uh i've been called selfish a lot i'm sure you have to i have yeah and and and but here's the thing man like you got to do what's going to make you happy and if you're denying that in a lot of times that's what causes depression you know what i mean and and also unanswered sort of internal issues again it's okay that you're a dude that you're a guy or that you're a hard charger a woman who's going through stuff you know i mean everybody is everybody's going through something talk to people be honest with people about how you're feeling about things you know what i mean be honest with people about like your past you know what i mean and there are still some things i won't talk about with people like i'm gonna talk to you about everything like some of the things are just for me and the other people that were involved uh even the forged and fire thing me talking about that i think this is the first time i've ever talked about publicly you know what i thought of the entire process and why i think things went down ultimately i got a call on april 1st and they were like we're letting you go because of covet cutbacks but that is counter to what happened prior to that you know what i mean there was there were other things that happened and i can say yeah i'm a hard guy to work with there were personality conflicts i can be honest about that stuff uh what's alarming is when you don't get that honesty from the other side you had keith berry on here right yeah i went to some seat with keith berry and uh you know there's a lot of stuff in the military like what keith berry went through yeah that isn't just exclusive to the military you know i mean it happens in a lot for sure and if anything that that idea of persecuting that guy keith berry came from outside of the military and was kind of uh it was just the period of time that we were in and it's just like uh it's just like the violence thing because i draw a doodle on a script in my trailer and leave it there it doesn't mean that i'm a [ __ ] violent person it means that you came in saw some of my private thoughts on a piece of paper circulated around and uh and made people scared of something they shouldn't have been scared of you know and and those are the kinds of things that are upsetting you know that that upset me you know here i am dealing with my issues and and uh and my problems now somebody from the outside is like uh making some sort of judgment about it and i think that that's wrong i'd never judge anybody who came to me said this is what i'm going through here's the real deal problem and and i want you to help me out with it or or uh you know i understand that you know this is what's going on so much i want to say there's so much like three hours is not enough time man like well then that just means we do round two oh well let's we let's do it let's do it i could do round two doesn't i mean i'm here i'm here i i i mean today i mean i'll have you come back up yeah that's fine i enjoy talking and and i enjoy talking about all this stuff and and you said closing thoughts about half an hour ago that's okay i'll let you go man so my closing my closing thoughts are this and this is where you can find me i'm gonna i'm trying to get a a road show going uh basically where my wife is a director she directed our documentary a hell of a producer she also writes children's books we're just kind of doing our own thing like how do we make money as a family how do we go into a family business and and and sustain ourselves you know doing what we love to do creatively and for me it's about storytelling i want to be able to uh write movies and direct movies and produce movies i want to be able to uh uh do my own content re you know reality content my own shows like uh if i want to like let's say me and you we want to go snowboarding for a day i want to be able to do like go out and say hey me you know me and andy we're going snowboarding we're going to talk about xyz you know we're going to do the same thing basically you and me are doing here just with some physical activity involved or if you're a knife maker and i come to see you well let's [ __ ] make a knife and talk about some of the [ __ ] neil kamamura talks about pts and and depression and suicide while he forges the knives you know and he talks to veterans about this stuff he's not a veteran what is he bringing to the table this is the stuff that i that i'm really interested in is people helping other people you know elevating one another as human beings i'm so tired i'm so tired of the division the forced division the injected division uh being a military brat i everybody's just got a different candy coated shell i think we i think of everybody as an m m and everybody's got a different candy coated shell but you're all peanuts and chocolate on the inside you know what i mean and and we're all just being consumed we're all being eaten up by time and time doesn't give a [ __ ] if you're the [ __ ] uh the [ __ ] green eminem or the brown one you're gonna get eaten up and and that's how it is and you just want to do the best you can with the time that you have and and and then legacy what do you want to leave behind what kind of what kind of things do you want to leave behind for your kids you know i think everybody in a lot of ways is worried about legacy especially as men i mean what am i leaving behind is there going to be a name am i going to survive they say you die the last time you or the second time you die is when somebody speaks your name for the last time right so like how long does that go and i would say that um not very far maybe two generations yeah yeah i mean if if you're you know what kind of impact are you going to have on the world is it going to be a positive impact or a negative impact i got a i got a high school teacher joe grape and he doesn't even know that i know his name probably and he was my baseball class coach not even my baseball coach i couldn't make the team i was too small but he was he was my baseball class coach and he called me mooseness because everybody called me moose when i was growing up and and he was one of the most supportive uh individuals that i've ever met my entire life you know he didn't take any [ __ ] he was a super fit guy he loved baseball and i would say that he i looked at him like a father figure without ever acknowledging and never did anything outside of school with him never saw him one time outside of school ever and that guy had a huge impact on on me i'd rather be that kind of guy the kind of guy who people were like yeah man that guy he my brother is one of those guys he's a school teacher up in northern california man the best the best kind of guy his students reach out to me like dude your [ __ ] brother's my teacher is the best it's awesome and he is he's [ __ ] amazing those kinds of people inspire me you know what i mean i'm selfish [ __ ] you know what i mean i'm just trying to figure out how to how to how to pay my bills without working for you know somebody that i disagree with uh uh you know you're doing a good job doing a good job me me i'm trying to figure out how to how to how to find a group of people that i don't disagree with too much that i can that i can work with and do creative stuff um and and it's it's a tough business because like let's say yeah it's a tough business to get into and we can we can talk about that some other time but um yeah man just try to be a better person every day and instead of denigrating you know the people around you for not being the same as you try to try to elevate a little bit you know what i mean go the other direction you know kill him with kindness kill him with a freaking hug and a kiss man why not i used to ram in colin lopez he used to hug and kiss that guy all the time man he'd be [ __ ] all pissed off be like dude you just need a hug man come on come in here and get a hug it's one of those things somebody somebody a civilian guy introduced me to this idea but another dude offers you a hug and you're like i don't want to hug but he hugs you anyway you still feel kind of good afterwards accurate you're still both smiling at the end of it and you're like get the hell off me but like you feel kind of good at the end of it and i think that's it we need more hugs you know what i mean we need to give more hugs to people be like it's okay man that you're upset it's okay that we disagree that's that's just the way of the world we're not always gonna see eye to eye on [ __ ] and um and uh let's just try to be better people for everyone moving forward you know that's my that's my final thought i can't add into that that's awesome thank you for taking the time to come up here i appreciate it man no man thank you for having me and i didn't know what this was going to be like [Laughter] we talked about a lot of crazy [ __ ] man i it wasn't too crazy right no did i incriminate myself on any level i'm not a lawyer jeff jeff i'm sorry that's awesome thank you thank you again to babel for supporting the podcast babel is the number one selling language learning app today or whatever day you listen to this when you purchase a three-month babel subscription you'll get an additional three months for free that is six months for the price of three just go to babel.com and use the promo code cleared hot okay once in from the north i've got the west bank of the river who's going to give it to you in the grove roger give me that gun run ladies and gentlemen thank you thanks for taking the time to tune in whether you're listening on an audio only platform or you're watching on youtube i appreciate that you take the time every week to tune in people ask me a lot what can they do to help me spread the word and the answer is actually embedded in the question the biggest thing you guys can do to help me if you enjoy the podcast and you think it would be helpful to others is subscribe and share with other people and if you have the time go on to apple podcasts and leave me a rating and a review if you think the podcast sucks tell me it sucks and leave a zero star review or the lowest stars possible if you have a question comment or suggestion you can go to clearedhotpodcast.com and there is a contact me button right there which will land in my inbox and the last thing if people are interested in helping out what you can do is fly the old flag and by that i don't mean an actual flag because i don't have any of those i'm talking about t-shirts or sweatshirts or hats whatever it may be again cleared hotpodcast.com click on the shop tab and hopefully something in there looks like it would be an item you would like to wear around town and then you could tell people what it is when they ask you but that is it the biggest thing i can say is thank you i truly appreciate it until next time see ya

Channel: Cleared Hot Podcast

Views: 296,774

Keywords: andy stumpf podcast, andy stumpf, podcast, world record, jre, military, powerfuljre, andy stumpf wingsuit, navy seal, united states navy seals (organization), cleared hot, cleared hot podcast, andy stumpf cleared hot, joe rogan, fitness, motivation, us army, wil willis, wil willis cleared hot, wil willis andy stumpf, cleared hot wil willis, andy stumpf wil willis, army ranger, Pararescueman, Special Ops Mission, Triggers: Weapons That Changed the World

Id: WxGqyj1tckA

Length: 216min 38sec (12998 seconds)

Published: Mon Mar 01 2021