Clash of the Classics - 1964 Ford Thunderbolt vs. 1964 Olds 442

time flash hey everyone that's right at cypher class at the classics I'm Donnie and I'm Chris amen we welcome you to yet another episode of horsepower for an hour great to have you guys here this week if you're new to the show if this is your first time you're gonna find every week we roll that clock back we take a look at two classic models when we look at interior stuff exterior stuff we might look at wheels and tires very rarely do we look at paint color but we might have to start that at some point I just don't like it when the wheels match the paint color otherwise yeah that's a little silly but then we vote on the car that we like best and as always we welcome you folks to let us know which car you like head on over to our website horse power online.com or here on our youtube channel just go ahead and leave us a message these battles are fueled by the largest automatic transmission network in the world they are the automatic transmission rebuilders Association or simply the atra today's gonna be some fun it's all about the 1964 Ford thunderbolt battling the 1964 olds 442 I want to start with that thunderbolt now here's a car that we don't often see enough of we're at least 30 maybe 40 of these cars show of classic car shows every year and these cars are just few and far between I don't remember only one time right yes in fact it was it fabulous Fords forever the only time I've ever seen one and there's probably good reason because I remember the first time I heard the name Ford Thunderbolt you're like oh right cool we're getting ready to see a sweet car and you see like you're kidding right yeah they approved this to go off the showroom okay well back in 64 Ford was having a tough time keeping stride with some of those lighter dodge and Plymouth they're unibody designs so one of the solutions that engineering came up with was to stuff a big 427 into the smaller mid-sized Ford Fairlane that was the idea and they contracted with an outfit called Dearborn steel tubing put this company on the map immediately made them an overnight success and they produced a limited number of race-ready street-legal cars and they called them the Thunderbolt they did a heck of good job considering they had to make extensive front-end modifications to get the big block to fit correctly the high-rise manifold if you look in our illustration around the images that we have here in studio you'll see the manifold stuck out of the top of the car so far that they had to create a custom hood and then they had also developed a pretty elaborate exhaust system this sort of kind of snaked through the front suspension components and I think they did a really good job with this the air induction tubes I think you know the big tubes on each side of the engine that are supplying the carburetor with air pretty impressive for sure and this car ran exceptionally well quarter-mile times in the mid 11 second range at a hundred and twenty-two miles an hour and we have to remember here we are talking 1964 big-block 427 producing 425 horsepower with a nut busting four hundred and eighty pound-feet of torque here again like we see so many times in the 60s the engine seriously underrated actual real life power more than 500 horsepower out of this car for one little lie or less you could save fifty percent or more on your back yes that's indeed you know what's funny though is I want him to bring up with these this new small car huge engine thing I like to imagine somebody in the engineering department who was a little bit older and kind of jaded and kind of had a crotchety old vibe you know it's just like all these damn kids he always want these big motors in these little cars and we got a redesign why can't people just want the 1930 mercury you know it's low you know that you know that know that conversation these damn kids today it has been since the beginning of time I mean you know even in Shakespeare's time they're writing about kids today don't understand what it was like and you hear it so much you know is I just I like to imagine some old guy in the sixties bitching about that's not like the 30s anymore all you have to do is look across the table because I resemble that remark I hear myself saying that in the past and I whenever I hear myself saying it I try to kind of backpedal because I don't want to assume that attitude but often times I find myself going there but transmission options were either a four-speed manual or a cast-iron three-speed automatic differential ratios were either a 444 or a 458 there were some massive and I mean really huge traction bars underneath the rear axle trying to keep that thing stable and the idea worked because Ford finally had a winner with the ETS in the 11 second range Ford won and this was a highly coveted award they won the 1964 NHRA manufacturers cup award hot rod magazine warned and one of their monthly issues that the Thunderbolt was not suitable for driving to and from the strip let alone on the street for daily use here's a thing maybe that was a reason for some of the disinterest in the car back then I guess we'll never really know this goes back to the whole thing about marketing because where engineering does their job sometimes marketing fails and if you if you can create enough excitement about anything it doesn't matter what it is we see that in our society today you create enough excitement about it people will buy it yeah but the only problem is the people are fickle machines aren't you know engineering I'm not surprised they've they've consistently done their job by putting out a great product it's you know trying to sell it to these damn kids as our friend Vernon would say you know I imagine that would be a bit of a trickier job trying to appeal to them and and really you hate to say it this way more or less subconsciously manipulate someone into buying something I feel like is a harder job yeah when you say it like that it kind of seems yuck it's subconscious manipulation well Ford only produced about a hundred of these cars of the majority of the cars that are left in circulation are here in the Southern California area so maybe this is the year we'll see him on display I hope so original MSRP back in 64 was three thousand seven hundred and eighty dollars I want to make that number again I want to say it again so you hear it clearly three thousand seven hundred and eighty dollars here today and if we can get a drumroll we might need a drumroll for this the value is somewhere between two hundred and fifty thousand to three hundred and seventy thousand I was half expecting you to say $3,700 no no no no there wasn't any there's no chiding here this is unbelievable this car is really valuable that's an expensive POS right there and indeed but before we go any further I want to talk about the largest automatic transmission network on the planet they are the automatic transmission rebuilders Association a tra makes our class to the classics possible big shout out to them no one knows transmissions better than a tra you got a transmission problem got head on over to a tra comm there you'll find a service provider member near you all right dude let's talk about 1964 old 442 one of my favorite Oldsmobiles probably a lot of people's favorite automobiles because this wasn't Grandpa's car but in 63 Pontiac was set to release the performance oriented version there tempest GTO and Oldsmobile felt compelled to answer with their own performance version here again we're going to talk about marketing and engineering but before we go there this package that they came up with I used a 330 cubic inch v8 with a high lift camshaft and a four-barrel carburetor they stuffed all of it into a Cutlass platform and this new engine was rated at a minimal 310 horsepower it's probably more like about 370 but they rated it at 310 the engine with the four-barrel was made it to a Chevy 4-speed with a custom dual exhaust and hence the term for four to never it was pretty good the option was about an additional $285 or so depending on the dealership that you visited but about a $285 option it included a beefed up suspension and then the upgraded and this was back in these days 1964 the upgraded tiger pot tires the standard 254 rear diff was a bit tall but even so the car still turned a respectable 15 second quarter mile at about 90 miles an hour but the strange thing at least in my opinion is where Pontiac was aggressive pitching the GTO back there in fact it was all about the GTO to the youth market this thing's a factory hot rod you know they called it to go but it was actually the the tiger platform Oldsmobile was very subdued very tentative in their advertising the only advertising I was able to find and I hope that you are able to find something more was a couple of cops this is for 1964 a couple cops in a four-door f-85 it didn't even have the 442 badging on and that seems strange to me I mean why would you not push the car yeah and the only other real piece of advertisement I found which I personally enjoy because there's a nice little bit of musicians humor in there it's it said the new sound from Detroit is a combo of four for two and it's got a you know a little silhouette of a band in the back and it's got the car in the front and I have to guess that they're punting on the Nashville number system with you know musician saying you know foreign key Gigi is one and six and whenever so it's four four - that wouldn't be a very good musical progression but I think that's what they were going for but still like again marketing cuz you know performance buffs people that were into the performance world they I mean and I understand it you're not looking at all just being a serious contender in the performance more especially if you're trying to market to the younger crowd what's the opposite of young yeah you know like in the Oldsmobile was for the older crowd yeah and at least apparently yeah and yeah well ol could have and I think should have done a bit more enthusiastic job in the marketing Pontiac sold listen to this 32,000 GTOs in 64 conversely also Beale only moved 2944 to the same year that could have easily been substantially higher I mean maybe even ten times as higher if the right marketing strategy would have been implemented I mean it's interesting as we do more and more of these clash battles and I'll say it again we've said it in weeks past the one thing that seems to be constant and recurring and it's across all manufacturers is a lack of marketing brilliance at key moments perfect example of that few years ago we did a pretty intense research and and and showcasing of the 40s and 50s dodge trucks brilliantly designed I mean they kicked some butt lowering the cab to inches so ladies could get in and out easier widening the seat two or two and a half inches so that you had more room for your extra you know your third person you got you could have that extra slice of pie before getting ya mom and dad and the baby in the front Donna that got communicated none of that was communicated to potential buyers again engineering does their job most of the time marketing and sales that seems to be where the weak link exists but original MSRP on the car was $3500 today a good number to valued somewhere between twenty to thirty thousand dollars so now it's time for us to tell which car do you like and why do you like it I'm gonna have to go for 42 despite the you know basic PR fumble I really like the the styling of it you know and and I gotta say as weak as an attempt it was I did like their little new sound from Detroit is 4 4 2 I kind of appealed to me yeah it's kind of cool I agree with you the 442 is unfortunately and there there are other you know the later in 67 I think 68 they made some changes and some of those cars are become hugely valuable but still even all the way through the end of the 442 run you know marketing gets a big D - maybe even an F couldn't give them an F because they did sell some so we'll give him a D - mine and give you a D for effort there you go right and because they just did not for engineering was determined to present to the motoring public an option that would at least rival Pontiac GTO then by all means you'd have to let someone know let's build it and keep it a secret that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever or the guy in charge of promoting it was probably getting ready to retire he's all jaded anyway because it's not 1936 and he doesn't care maybe there's a mean that's a matter a lot of possibilities we'll never know the reason why but I'm with you I like the 442 folks let us know which car you like I'm pretty sure that the 442 will win this battle but we'll have to wait and see today's class of the classics made possible by the largest automatic transmission network in the world they are the automatic missionary builders association or simply put the a tre with certified service providers all across America it's easy to find peace of mind when it comes to transmission service and repair next time you're having a transmission problem you even think you got a trans problem head on over to a tre com there you're gonna find a plethora of transmission service providers in your area that's it folks we'll see you next week [Music]

Channel: Horsepower for an Hour

Views: 86,263

Rating: 4.1186442 out of 5

Keywords: clash, of, the, classics, atra, 1964, ford, thunderbolt, oldsmobile, 442

Id: 5CRp2o1WSRQ

Length: 14min 1sec (841 seconds)

Published: Thu May 31 2018