Citizens' Rights During Police Encounters: Steve Silverman on C-SPAN's Washington Journal

now on your screen is Steve Silverman who is the founder and executive director of a group called flex your rights mr. Silverman what is that group flex rights is a nonprofit organization our mission is to educate people about how to assert their constitutional rights during police encounters and we offer practical information about what to say and what to do to in order to bring about the best outcomes possible in a very stressful situation what motivated you to found a group like that well you know the thing is most people during a police encounter will do one of two things that I found that and I found this from my you know early activism work that people will often either capitulate in every single way and say sure officer go ahead and take a look I don't mind or on the other end of the spectrum they'll get angry and antagonistic and frustrated and try to take it out on the police officer which can lead to absolutely terrible outcomes what I've tried to do is try to find that middle ground where you can confidently and calmly assert your constitutional rights in an assertive way that actually can protect your constitutional rights but what are some of our constitutional rights that we might not be aware of well probably the most common one that I've found is that most folks have don't have a clear understanding of for example the Fourth Amendment protection against unreasonable searches and seizures this is very important during a traffic stop traffic stop to represent about 52% of all citizen police encounters and during a traffic stop everything might seem to go well you might be getting pulled over for any number of reasons under the Sun and you get either a warning or a citation or even a ticket you of course should never try to talk your way out of a ticket or get angry about a ticket always be calm and cool but oftentimes though police will sort of pull a Steve Jobs and they'll say well wait there's one more thing we've had a lot of Gun Runners going up and down this Highway and or you know they'll say something like we're just we're looking out for terrorists you're not a terrorist are you don't have any guns or bombs in the trunk and 90% of the time so this sounds will say oh no officer sure go ahead and search and oftentimes if it's a you know young people particularly they'll say something like we're not looking for just a little bit of marijuana like I said we're looking for guns and bombs and that situation people will say sure officer go ahead and anything the police officer finds will be likely used against them and they'll find themselves getting arrested and then the officer you know the citizen will say but officer I thought you said you were just looking for guns and bombs you could tell that to the judge but you're under arrest and so in such situations whether or not you have anything on you it's very important to say officer I know you're just doing your job but I do not consent to any searches and what happens at that point is that a reasonable suspicion if you do not consent no that's a that's a that's a myth and oftentimes police officers will try to trick citizens into thinking that their refusal is actually evidence of a search police need to have what's called probable cause which is actual evidence that a crime is is taking place that could include something that they see or actually the smell of marijuana itself could be probable cause so that's certainly one good reason for young people understand that but if they if they say you mind if I take a look and you say no that cannot be used against you in court the next thing that's likely to happen also is it's very important to understand that you want to try to withdrawal yourself from the encounter people often wait for a police officer to give them permission to go so a very smart thing to say is officer again I know you're just doing your job but am I free to go now and police have to actually have a reason to they need reasonable suspicion which is a lower standard than probable cause to detain you to investigate you because they have reason to believe you might be involved in the crime but they do have a certain window which they can legally detain you so the right question to ask in that situation is officer am I free to go well how do you define and we're putting the numbers up on the screen if you'd like to talk with steve Silverman of flex your rights about civil liberties and police conduct you can see the numbers there on the screen but I want to point out that our fourth line is set aside for law enforcement officials and there's the number 202 five eight five three eight eight three we'd like to get your point of view certainly as well but but can't a policeman it maybe I'm being a little overly suspicious here but can a policeman say oh I had reasonable cause to stop this person I thought maybe they they looked drunk or you know they were rude to me well being rude in and of itself isn't isn't necessarily wouldn't constitute reasonable suspicion certainly it's not a good idea to try to escalate the encounter but certainly you know looking and appearing drunk is is reasonable suspicion to detain someone and ask them further questions but in so many of the situations that we were talking about what police are doing is sort of they're fishing for something and sort of the the the loophole to the Fourth Amendment protection against unreasonable searches and seizures that police are able to drive a Mack truck through is simply asking do you mind if I take a look and if citizens consent the search is legal so essentially there's no there's nothing you can do on that back end when you are in court or you have a lawyer if you've consented to the search for example you've really put yourself at any disadvantage and again I would argue that citizens whether or not you think you have anything to hide you have every right to say officer I don't consent to search as I believed in the Fourth Amendment and I'd like to be on my way many times people think they do not have anything to hide whatsoever they consent to a search and something is found there that may have been left there by a friend a family member or even a previous car owner I've heard ridiculous stories of that nature and so in those situations when you have the right to assert your constitutional rights you should consider doing it you of course have every right to say sure go ahead it's up to you but at least you understand you know that it's a choice that you have whether to consent or not steve Silverman a lot of talk now about body cams on policemen we've got the dash cams Plus can when it comes to a citizen can a citizen record a policeman stop yes yes yes it's I think for one thing as a policy I think body cams on police is a fantastic idea it it's good for police and it's good for citizens it puts everybody on their best behavior as far as citizens are concerned citizens have the First Amendment right to openly record the police everywhere there's a lot of confusion about this a lot of citizens and police officers are confused about this you're still seeing videos of police officers arresting citizens for recording the police but this is actually in violation of the law there are about 12 states in the nation that have what are called all party consent rules and this actually causes some confusion because citizen because police think that oh wait you're violating my privacy you can't film it but actually the courts in those states have ruled that this doesn't apply to police officers on duty that citizens have First Amendment right to openly record the police in it and they should do that and they can use lots of technology and their smartphone in particular to do that and you say openly record exactly can't just flip on your cellphone video recorder right I emphasize openly because the courts have ruled that if you do it sir tisha Slee you could run afoul of these all-party consent laws I mean they're essentially intended to prevent people from surreptitiously recording conversations that are presumed to be private and so you want to when you record the police you want to act like a reporter because the sense you are a reporter you don't need to have a license to report the police or to be a reporter in general and you have every right to record you don't want to do it like a spy a final question before we go to calls and by the way our fourth line is set aside for law enforcement 202 585 388 3 is a number for you to dial in and give your opinion situations in Ferguson where the citizens were recording the police in the street during some of the riots and some of the situations there is that allowed can you videotape police confrontation ABB's yes you you can and and you know as far as the you know my the rules for recording the police that I have them the first one is know the law and as I I you know explain you always have the right to openly record the police another rule could be if the police order you to step back for example it's okay to do that I think it's okay to have some flexibility because for example you don't want to be obstructing the officer officers will sometimes take advantage of this little bin say keep stepping back keep stepping back and it's up to you to decide whether you want to keep recording or if you think you're too far out of you it's also important to note that even though it's perfectly legal to record police when you do record the police you should be prepared to be arrested and that's a little bit it doesn't really make sense a little bit confused because like I said the police are often confused about this law and police officers do have a lot of discretion to make arrests so it's up to you to decide whether you're willing to risk that in order to capture what I would argue would be police misconduct and if you use an app like for example Bambuser be a mbu ser I don't work for Bambuser but right now Bambuser is the best live streaming recording app and if you put it on as I didn't bring my phone because your producers that do not bring in your phone because it could ring and I appreciate that but what you can do if you have a passcode on your phone which I highly recommend everyone keep a passcode protection on their phone Supreme Court recently ruled that citizens need that police rather need to have a warrant in order to search citizens phone fantastic ruling but in the meantime it's still a good idea to keep a passcode protection your phone because sometimes police are the last to get the memo when it comes to Supreme Court rulings so when you use Bambuser for example or any live streaming app and you're recording the police the advantage of Bambuser is if the police officers unlawfully snatch your phone confiscate it or smash it to bits everything that you've recorded up into that point will be saved offsite and you can later access that video and the other benefit of keeping the passcode protection on your phone too is even if they snatch your phone and you hit the sleep button on your phone while using a live streaming app like Bambuser and police take that they won't be able to delete your video so as far as technology is concerned I would I consider that to be the best practice make sure you have a passcode on your phone and use a live streaming video app like bamboos are in order to preserve your video because if you have video evidence of police violating your constitutional rights you are going to be in a much stronger position than if it's simply your word against theirs let's take some calls we're going to begin with Angus and Greensboro North Carolina Angus good morning dawn oh the pleasure of watching your hours with our show yesterday on Washington general and you know a detective on there fog with the marshal's office and one of the comments that he made that I thought was very important was that the 50 the couple of calls being is a catch-all phrase that the police used to stop anyone they want you in other words the probable cause that I stopped you is because forever and that is something that has not been the some extent contested are dealt with and and law enforcement because when you go to court actually be the victim or not the victim but the the culprit has three people that he has to fight against that is the police and the jail in other words you had convinced three organization a three superior element of his innocence and if you got the DA on the behind the police and the Jared that is also back and hit police you're almost ready yet a third disadvantage just by the fact that you did it all right we got the points mr. Silverman right I mean the thing with our information with flexure into focus is much more on the front end of things is what to do during that police and kind of the things that you have the power to say or do that can affect how things then play out on the back end and at this point you're going to have a criminal defense lawyer as your advocate and they're going to be essentially doing surgery you know with your case and so what happens there is going to depend in very much not entirely but very much on the things that you do and say and so oftentimes police when it comes to probable cause will try to trick you into thinking that they have the right to search you for example but don't assume whether or not they have probable cause that's not really for you to decide that ultimately be for the judge to decide at that point the best move is to simply say officer I know you're just doing your job but I can't let you in my home without a warrant officer I know you're just doing your job but I can't let you search me or my car I don't consent to any searches and that will be your best protection and criminal defense lawyers who review our work always say the same thing that most of their clients actually fail to assert their constitutional right to refuse searches which makes their job a lot more difficult in court Bob is calling in from Margaretville New York Bob you're on the air yeah I'm listening to mr. Silverman here and you know I live in a small town upstate New York and all the time we're getting up here is well we pulled you over for a license plate like perhaps that was out he really wasn't out all right you're not allowed to leave the vehicle State Police having a problem with the courts the focus parently are prosecuting enough people to keep the state police happy so one mile over the speed limit this small rural town you're it now they pull you over now they ask for problem when can we search your car you ask why well probable cause you look like somebody who may have committed a crime somewhere else in the area Bob have you got personal experience no I haven't I know many many many people who have though and I it's got a response from our guests absolutely Bob you know the fact is oftentimes policing in the United States is entrepreneurial and you know a lot of these small towns police officers see people you know traveling up and down you know a highway there as as a revenue generator and oftentimes use what are called pretexts to stop people police officers have a lot of discretion to pull a car over for any reason under the Sun and this is just something that motorists have to appreciate and so when you are in that situation even if you think that essentially that you are being perhaps you are being profiled in some way the fact is you don't always know what is in the heart and mind of the police officer and what's going on you know in you know with their culture and their police department at that situation the best thing to do is to always remain calm and courteous and be prepared to assert your constitutional rights don't consent to any searches if you start being interrogated say officer I really don't want to answer any more questions am I free to go and if something happens and you do wind up getting arrested the best thing to say at that point is nothing except I have nothing to say until I speak with my lawyer and then you keep your mouth shut until that happens William is calling in from Greenbelt Maryland here in the Washington area and he is in law enforcement William what's your what kind of law enforcement do you do County County believe okay you've been listening to our conversation this morning what are your thoughts well my question is I'd like your guests to speak on the fact that driving is a commercial term and that what what what they're actually doing is they're saying that you are making money on the roadways so they're enforcing commercial walls thank you very much did you follow that not really well I will say this that I presume the off of the officers from PG County police department PG County Police Department is has notoriously been one of the most corrupt police departments in the country actually when it comes to transparency in terms of covering up incidents of police abuse for example there was a horrible situation a few years to get where a college park student was celebrating after the University of Maryland won a basketball game against Duke and what happened was the the young man was skipping along and a police officer beat severely beat the young man now dinner Lee in there because well at first of course the police the PG County Police Department claimed that the young man assaulted the police first and they charged him with with numerous violations and later the closed-circuit camera revealed that in fact the police officer was the one who attacked the young man moreover apparently it was a a wife of a PG County police officer that was handling those cameras and actually was actively covering up the release of those cameras and none of the police officer the wife were ever held accountable and this is something that seems to happen repeatedly within the PG County Police Department Prince George's County parents George all right William isn't with us anymore otherwise we'd get a response from him on that IDI in Wildrose Wisconsin by the way that student soon didn't he and he wanted the students sued and he he won and interesting enough that the police officer was never was never charged I believe that the judge in that case actually was once married to a PG County police officer and then tossed the charges inexplicably and so there there has not been justice in that I would argue but this seems to be something that is a habit among Prince George's County police and prosecutors Wildrose Wisconsin Democrat n good morning hi um I have a a minor law is it's a felony but it's a selling pot charge from 20 years ago and I got a letter yesterday in the mail stating that I had just been to a DNA test even though I've I've had even a traffic ticket in 20 years and I had no record before then and I believe my crime was before the Supreme Court said that DNA databases work ok is this legal or is the state of Wisconsin just allowed to go back retroactively lis and get everybody that's ever been convicted of a crime and have them come in for DNA to be honest said I don't know the answer to your specific question but and I oftentimes don't know the answer to specific legal questions like that but that is a question where my response would be talk to a lawyer before you do anything flex your rights 10 rules for dealing with the police number 1 always be calm and cool you have the right to remain silent you have the right to refuse searches don't get tricked into waiving your rights determine if you're free to go don't do anything illegal don't run never touch a policeman report misconduct be a good witness and you don't have to let them in your house and we have this tweet from V a Texan saying why is the Washington journal having this tips for criminal segments are we giving tips for criminals here the information we teach is basic constitutional rights this information or something up is the same thing that lawyers and police officers teach their own children will flex your rights we believe that this information should be available to everybody moreover I think that everybody should be prepared to assert their constitutional rights regardless of whether they are or think they're doing anything illegal because otherwise we have a society where everyone is presumed guilty and police can stop anyone for any reason Under the Sun can go into anybody's home in order to search them because they might have a hunch that they're involved in something illegal this is exactly what the founders fought a revolution to stop Dave is in Alexandria Minnesota independent line Dave you're on the air yes my experience was that I was I must steep hill between Long Prairie Minnesota in Little Falls Minnesota and I saw a bunch of cattle farmers cattle dime across the road well I went down I saw highway cop ahead of me about a half a mile yeah in the down the hill and he had a somebody pulled over there well I went down there and I parked the quite a distance of ahead of him because I didn't want him to get spooked by somebody else coming to talk to him so then I started walking toward him before I even got toward him he had a Taser on me and threatened to use it on me well I mean I had never had done nothing except one and I tell him about these cattle that it were loosened crossing the road so anyway what happened is that entity and I got hired problems I he could have killed me with that Kaiser but anyway then I reported it later to his superior and his superiors just blew it up its superior in Saint Cloud Minnesota just blew it up and I thought you know here they are pulling a Kaiser I knew you hadn't done a damn thing that gave me the impression that I'm never going to stop and tell a cop about anything anymore there's no doubt about it I mean a bad police encounter can have these other other incidental effects is that people are going to be less likely to trust the police and I think it's a good thing that you reported the incident even though it seems like you didn't get any redress or even apology I think it's still worth reporting a common incidence of police misconduct like that because the fact of the matter is very few people do and most people are simply afraid to report policemen sky so Dave I really I applaud you for having the bravery to at least stand up for yourself and and and and report that to the local police department because even if it didn't seem like you got any redress from that it's possible that that officer may have been chewed out by his superior officer I don't know but it's still something that's worth doing Steve Silverman do we live in more of a police state than it used to be or do we live in a police state I don't think we I don't think there are an increased number of police incidents what we certainly do have is increased number of police of that police behavior that is caught on video and disseminated through YouTube and this is a very positive thing so it sometimes seems like oh my god the police are out of control over living police state but I really think that it I don't think the statistics bear out that there's an increasing number of instance but rather incidents that would have been swept under the rug that would have been a story between the citizen and the police officer we're in court the courts have generally taken the side of the police officer in such situations but now that they're caught on video in fact is video brings us closer you know it reveals the truth and the truth can help bring us closer to justice wild and wonderful tweets in and I believe she's a lawyer and I shall let us know if I'm telling it wrong no need to get wordy with a police officer the answer is as soon as you present me with a search warrant I mean in in your hum yes I think in the home police cannot enter your home without a search warrant unless of course you open the door say sure go ahead and come on in oftentimes the police won't say you mind if we take a look inside now we won't come in unless you know without a search warrant unless you give us consent it sounds a lot more like a command go ahead and let me in you know you don't mind if I take a look inside and they might even sort of maybe even for push their way in a little bit in in your home the home is your castle and the Supreme Court has essentially ruled as such the police with very few rare exemptions can enter your home without a warrant so if police are trying to knock on your door and ask them to come on in to take a look around off officers I cannot let you inside without a warrant keep that door locked Howie Philadelphia Republican you're on with steve Silverman of Flexer rights yes come on and gentlemen and mr. Silverman I appreciate your space on people power we seem to be rolling on the Supreme Court you see all these politicians they forget our execs and the thing is that everybody has all these ideas but nobody wants to give her the FDR and Bill Clinton's war on crime we don't want your razor war on drugs that the situation is just out of control what do we gonna do about this and one last thing please vote for on Governor Corbett thank you very much there's no doubt about that the the war on drugs fuels so many of these sorts of of police encounters where police are are searching you know for small amounts of drugs and that they have they have tangible benefits to them and themselves in their departments to to make as many arrests to show the numbers this is no doubt about that the war on drugs feels so much of these violations of people's basic rights and nowhere is this more present than in New York City where with their with their stop and frisk program where you have you have a whole generation of young black and brown men who are growing up feeling that it is basically a matter of course that police officers will stop them for a little or no reason and Pat them down and hassle and humiliate them and have them go on their way and a nine out of ten situations they find absolutely nothing on them and so that's a huge problem and that is so much fueled by the war on drugs and war on drugs policing with which creates these perverse incentives for police departments to stop and frisk so many people ami tweets in that the tips for criminals comment guy on twitter who assumed citizens or criminals is the precise reason we all need to know our rights Tracy and Cleveland Ohio Democrat I'm calling regarding the police department and their that people will get pulled over and it will say that they were pulled over for racial profiling now a lot of times there's a a reason that our police officers have pulled them over whether they signed more than active warrants or their suspended license whatever the problem may be but not a cydia I was a Councilwoman here for 13 years and I have found I would get upset because we wouldn't see these people we'd let them see us but we wouldn't defend ourselves or the police officer who put themselves every day in the line of duty where he could get killed because it was cheaper for us to pay somebody off than it was for this to go before our insurance company to pay whatever it would cost and our city was in financial problems at the time and they said well maybe we'll do it when we come out well we are now out and we are still not letting these people the same we're not allowed to defend ourselves against these people are the allegations base that it's cheaper just to pay it than it is to go to the court system and I am we got the point Tracy Tracy I think you're putting the blame on the wrong place and I understand you know if you're running a city you're looking at you're looking at your dollars you don't want them spent inappropriately but I think it's wrong to blame citizens who are able to successfully sue the police it's very very challenging to sue the police and win full civil rights violations so when when city officials are upset about the the dollar amounts of the checks that they have to cut to citizens who have their rights violated the place they need to look is at the police department and look at changing their practices in their culture and it could often start with firing the police chief at the top who is allowing this but even more importantly oftentimes police chiefs who try to implement more law based policing are often the ones who wind up at a disadvantage because the police unions have so much power in terms of what police chiefs can do which includes most oftentimes they can't even fire police officers who clearly are violating citizens constitutional rights so like I said the place you want to put the blame is on the police department in their practices because the police departments are respecting citizens constitutional rights you won't have to be cutting these checks to citizens who have their rights violated Victor is calling in from Meridian missus it says that you are retired law enforcement Victor from what are you retired I'm retired from the Pass Christian Police Department I was a lieutenant I would over I was chief of patrollers old petrópolis and training you want to talk about corruption the guy that's chief of police right now when I got hired January 15 1975 he got hired about nine months later he went through the police academy while he's a convicted felon it served time Louisiana for burglary and then corruption from then on it was just I was very aggressive officer I did things by the book and this guy would be trying to get these drug addicts and drug users off the charges and so I Victor if you've listened to our conversation this morning what do you think about Steve Silverman's group flex your rights you are is he fair to the the police side of this view when I think he is um I was I always went by the book they even had a mayor that tried to get rid of me he he vote he he won by a landslide just because they say he would get the people convinced that it he promised to get rid of me and I went by the book but he was constantly trying to find some reason somebody filed some little complaint that they felt like they would miss mistreated he'd go after me with vengeance and he's never win but Victor is it easy for a policeman in your view to use the reasonable cause are the reasonable suspicion standard - perhaps search a car perhaps stop somebody well what I used to do is if I smelled marijuana coming from the vehicle that's probable cause without a search warrant I I would tell tell the guy what he's done wrong put a lot of times I'd see paper rose on the dash of some best like substance like back in 79 I stopped to lawyers and I thought I'd smoke marijuana but it wasn't burn it okay Oh at the end of that no I could tell y'all I had a lot of sergeants I'd one sergeant want to take over uh police explorers and then we had like about five boys 33 girls wanted to be cops one day and he wanted to take over he ended up promising these boys if they gave him sex that he promised them a job well he got caught up with and then he lost his job he got fired that's Victor and Meridian Mississippi retired law enforcement anything you'd like this bond to there mister so absolutely Victor and you know there's an important place for for whistleblowers and police departments and oftentimes police officers who do blow the whistle are the ones who can speak the best about the fear of retaliation from their fellow police officers so I appreciate you standing up for people's rights within the department that being said all of our information that we do put out is vetted by police officers in fact a former major Neill Franklin from the Baltimore Police Department himself actually a whistleblower within the department was an on-set consultant to make sure that all the police in the scenes did everything appropriate the Chief of Police of Columbia Missouri Chief Burton actually uses ten rules for dealing with police as part of community outreach to educate citizens about their Constitution rights but because he believes that police who actually do follow the Constitution do the best policing and that gets down to the question or concern that a lot of people who purport to speak on behalf of police departments claim that you know the the Constitution in many ways is like is a loophole and you know people are always falling back on their constitutional rights the founders crafted the Bill of Rights not to create loopholes but rather to create a template for good policing the Fourth Amendment requires evidence in order to investigate that is a template for good police procedure and behavior Steve Silverman was a campus coordinator for stop the drug war org and he's worked as an intern at families against mandatory minimums have you been arrested I have not been arrested I've been lucky I had a near miss one of this happened when I was a at college at University of Maryland I got an early morning phone call from a friend of mine my friend Steve a different Steve actually he said you got to come see my dorm you got to see what you got to come here his voice was definitely very concerned so I trudged through the snow and he opened the door and his rookie and his roommate revealed their room had been tossed I mean normally they didn't keep the Tydeus dorm room but every drawer that could be pulled off was turned over and someone had shredded their mattresses look like someone was searching for a microfilm or something like that it turned out the night before they got a knock on the door and it was the police they had smelled marijuana and sure enough Steve and his roommate consented to the search they admitted everything and the police found a little pipe with a little bit of marijuana residue thing after that was I was more angry about this incident then than even my friend was and that sort of was the spark that kind of led me down to learn a little bit more about police procedures and and help me reveal that very few people understood the most basic rules of police procedure and one that often times doing things that put them at a terrible disadvantage you've released several videos you've got a DVD here we want to show you it on YouTube as well a lot of videos right our two videos our original was called busted the citizens guide to surviving police encounter we had former longtime executive director IRA Glasser as our star narrator in that we released ten rules for dealing with police in 2009 ten rules is sort of the newer it's it's much more polished it's maybe a little bit more mature probably the more appropriate one to show in in high schools for example but both videos are available on YouTube we've cut them up into a bunch of clips each both of them are 40 minutes each so we've got dozens and dozens of Clips answering specific questions on our YouTube channel at YouTube / flex your right store we've gotten about 35 36 million views since we've released those Damon is in Prospect Kentucky on our Republican line Damon you're on the Washington journalist Steve Silverman good morning I'm really enjoying this segment and not the comment I'd like to get from your guest is about what I consider one most blatant disregard for citizens rights is a I guess it falls on the guise of what they call civil forfeiture what people law-abiding citizens are driving down the road with cash in their pocket and the police are pulling them over and I guess with no proof of anything just saying I think that's drug money so I'm taking it and it is literally highway robbery in my opinion and apparently what rights does the citizen having that the last time I checked carrying cash is not illegal and these people are directly benefiting from that if that money was going to go to charity or something they had no ulterior motive it might be more palatable but the police departments that are taking this money are directly benefiting it from that so they can buy themselves new vehicles etc etc there is a guide it's well documented cases of this and somebody need to be standing on a mountaintop ringing a bell I find this extremely disturbing and the police departments know that it's so prohibitively expensive and convoluted process to get your money back you're essentially guilty until proven innocent that a lot of people just it's easier to walk away and forfeit the money and the police departments know this and I would really like a law enforcement officer to call in and comment on this and defend this it's indefensible in my opinion and there's all one of the new shows again why didn't we're running a little tight on time so we're going to leave your comment there and have mr. silver I think Damon to that did just a perfect job of describing the the problems with the with asset forfeiture and how again this is part of entrepreneurial policing where police are pulling people over and they're asking oh you've any cash in your car and if you're ever in that situation again a good idea to say officer I know you're just doing your job but I really don't want to answer any questions am I free to go because if you admit to having cash in your car it's possible they might go ahead and search you and confiscate that cash and it's it's a it's a Kafka esque process of trying to get your money back that is essentially that has been stolen from me because technically the the crime is against the money itself it's a very strange system and it's nearly impossible for citizens to get their money back because usually the amount it would cost in court fees and lawyers in order to get this money back is so prohibitively expensive that they walk away meanwhile police departments are using this to get you know military equipment and the sort of toys that that they want to have that they otherwise wouldn't be able to justify paying for based on the budgets that they have you probably saw this this late summer Sunil Dutta is a policeman and a professor of homeland security at colorado Tech in he's in LA or was an LA police officer for 17 years the title of this editorial hour article I'm a cop if you don't want to get hurt don't challenge me working the street he writes I can't even count how many times I wished curses screaming tantrums aggressive and menacing encroachments on my safety zone and outright challenges to my authority in the vast majority of such encounters I was able to peacefully resolve the situation without using force I thought that was a very interesting article in fact he even goes on to sort of provide sort of a flex your rights template where he says you have the right to refuse searches and I which was sort of an interesting juxtaposition because he sort of opens up with do whatever I say and so it seems to be a little bit of a contradiction I thought the arc his his op-ed was a little bit on the end kind of blaming the victim I mean I just I don't begrudge people who feel upset at the point of a police encounter and get a little bit upset and I don't think that even talking back to a police officer in any way or voicing discontent with the situation should ever be used to justify any sort of physical force against a citizen unless the officer actually feels that the citizen is is threatening to them wallace is calling from dallas texas retired law enforcement wallace wood from what are you retired i retired in 1996 I had cancer I was a police officer in Arizona New Mexico and Texas and I personally speak to mr. Sullivan's comments about confiscation of money if a person was stopped and had excess cash land it was it was painted and sometimes it did not make it into the evidence what I know this firsthand the problem I have with some of the contemporary law enforcement practices here in Texas there has been several incidents where people have billed I guess what you could say is misconduct and the police have paid a camera or Victor just confiscated the camera or confiscate vegans and I did have a problem with that even though I was the police officer for 30 years well Wallace do you do you feel that citizens have enough civil rights when it comes to interactions with the police uh yes no I think they don't assert their rights I've had many dealings with law enforcement since I retired and I've been picked about a problem but that doesn't mean that probably going to burn people not aware of their rights or or just basic is not aware of their rights thank you sir thank you else I appreciate that and I think that's it's important message to pass on I'm gonna get lots of calls and emails from parents you know including you know black ministers recently you know in wake of Ferguson who they crave this information you know now so more than ever because they just want their their their sons and daughters to come home safely and there's there's a time and every parent you know once they're there their kids turn about 16 years old and they're driving where suddenly for that for the young emerging adult suddenly the officer friendly isn't necessarily going to be as friendly when they're pulled over and they have that moment where like realize wait a second this person might not be looking out for me and they're interrogating me and presuming that I'm guilty and they're asking me to consent to searches and I think that that's a problem and that should be something that that police departments should change I think that people should continue to feel that sense that they are engaging with someone who is like an officer family who's actually there to protect and serve rather than to try to shake them down steve Silverman you pointed out the Prince George's County Police as a not such a good example in your view is there a police department that is a good example of I believe the Seattle police chief at cameras am taught my head but has been very very positive in the way that he's interacted with citizens including even Occupy protesters you know instead of bringing out em rats and Bearcats and the like has made sure that the the officers look like police officers should their faces revealed and made some interesting sort of common saying like this mentality that police officers have where their end goal is to avoid being hurt and it's important you can appreciate that and but it oftentimes leads to this this sort of absurdity where police will put themselves behind these these protective walls and miners distant vehicles and dehumanize themselves and that in itself creates more of an escalation and so when police officers act like the police and they show their face and assume that you know what there could be an increased level of risk to the police department but that's something that police officers do and he said essentially that you're not to the to his Police Department said you're not being you weren't drafted and that's something I understand that it's easier for a police chief or a police officer to say to another police officer and I'm like this is this guy hanging out here telling police officers that they should put themselves at greater risk but that's part of of the job is assuming a certain level of risk and to put yourself behind these walls and protective you know driving around in your car and not having the windows down or being on the beat actually isn't any making the community any safer but is actually building walls that is actually making it harder to do good engage policing because if people don't trust the police they're not going to work with police when they actually do need the police and that's terribly disruptive and according to the Officer Down Memorial Page in 2013 84 police were killed in the line of duty 36 by gunfire 19 by automobile accident you can see down the list via vehicular assault is another one struck by a vehicle but the 36 killed by gunfire I mean does that is that a number that we should we should give the police some slack here well say hey we are threatened out they don't really like to get into into the game of how dangerous this place in fact policing is a somewhat dangerous job but if you put it a lot of continuum of jobs that people have it's not one necessarily one of even I think the top five I mean feel um bare jack cab driver convenience store owner these are all occupations that you're a lot more likely to be killed by violence and so when police officers put up an you know saying our job is so dangerous therefore we need to have additional protective gear we need to have mine-resistant vehicles it's almost always a play in order to justify expenditures that that do not enable for better face-to-face policing and Jon and North Carolina's tweets in you had talked about one website he says record into ever everything is in the cloud best app ever and our friend evil bastard says my phone is set up so any photos or videos are automatically backed up to Google Steve Silverman flex your Rights is the organization the website flex your rights org thank you very much thank you Peter we're going to turn our attention to some of the new mortgage rules that were announced by Mel watt who's head of the housing authority here in Washington DC former congressman from North Carolina we're going to have the president and CEO of the Mortgage Bankers Association out here in just a minute

Channel: Flex Your Rights

Views: 164,678

Keywords: Washington Journal (TV Program), C-SPAN (TV Network), Police, Cops, Flex Your Rights (Nonprofit Organization), Bill of Rights, civil liberties, police misconduct, police abuse, Police Brutality

Id: CBkxscI2DDM

Length: 49min 45sec (2985 seconds)

Published: Tue Nov 04 2014

Reddit Comments

[u/HurricaneSandyHook]

Around the 16:50 mark a cop calls up with a strange comment/question that neither of them have a clue what he is even talking about. I think he is trying to say that cops have the right to generate revenue because driving is a privilege. Anyone else know if that is what he was getting at?