PUSHING FORWARD ISSUES AND IDEAS THAT, YOU KNOW, WOULD PROBABLY COME BACK TO HAUNT US. IN FACT, I THINK THAT’S WHETHER WE ARE TODAY. >>> HI, EVERYONE. THIS MORNING NEW YORK CITY, AS FIB AGENTS RAIDEDED HOME AND OFFICE OF RUDY GIULIANI, CEASING HIS PHONE AND ELECTRONICS DEVICES. TODAY’S DEVELOPMENT SIGNALING A MAJOR TURNING POINT IN THE INVESTIGATION BY THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK, WHICH IS LOOKING INTO GIULIANI’S DEALING WITH THE UKRAINIANS. "NEW YORK TIMES" FIRST TO BREAK THE STORY, QUOTE, THE FERRED AUTHORITIES HAVE LARGELY FOCUSED ON WHETHER GIULIANI ILLEGALLY ON WHETHER GIULIANI ILLEGALLY LOBBIED ON BEHALF OF UKRAINIAN OLIGARCHS. VICTORIA TENSING, WHO WAS CLOSE TO GIULIANI AND HAD SEVERAL DEALINGS, HAD HER HOME SEARCHED BY FEDERAL AUTHORITIES AS WELL THIS MORNING. ATTEMPT TO OBTAIN SEARCH WARRANTS HAVE BEEN UNDERWAY FOR MONTHS, ACCORDING TO "NEW YORK TIMES." THEY REPORT THAT INVESTIGATORS HAD BEEN MET WITH PUSHBACK WHEN TRYING TO SECURE IT PREVIOUSLY. UNDER MR. TRUMP, SENIOR POLITICAL APPOINTEES AND THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT REPEATEDLY SOUGHT TO BLOCK SUMP A WARRANTSU WARRANT. AS MERRICK GARLAND WAS CONFIRMED, THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT LIFTED ITS OBJECTION TO THE SEARCH, RAISING ALL SORTS OF QUESTIONS ABOUT ATTORNEY GENERAL BILL BARR’S INVOLVEMENT, HEAVY-HANDED INVOLVEMENT. WE DO KNOW LAST YEAR THAT BARR PRESSURED JEFFREY BERMAN TO STEP DOWN. BERMAN REFUSED, AND THEN WAS FIRED BY DONALD TRUMP. WE HAVE MORE QUESTIONS THAN ANSWERS AT THIS HOUR. THAT’S WHERE WE BEGIN WITH SOME OF OUR FAVORITE FRIENDS AND OF OUR FAVORITE FRIENDS AND REPORTERS. LUCKY FOR US, ALL THREE MSNBC CONTRIBUTORS ARE HERE WITH UGH FRANK, I START WITH YOU TODAY. WE SHOULD MAKE PERFECTLY CLEAR THAT JUSTICE DEPARTMENT DOESN’T GIVE A WARRANT. THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT GIVES PERMISSION TO INVESTIGATORS TO GO TO A JUDGE TO SEEK A WARRANT. IS THAT RIGHT? CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT PROCESS OF WHAT YOU NEED TO CONVENTION A JUDGE TO SAY YES? >> I THINK THE PROCESS IS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR YOUR LISTENERS TO UNDERSTAND. WHY? I’M SURE THAT ANY MINUTE IN AND OUT WE’RE GOING TO START HEARING CLAIMS OF WITCH-HUNT AND DEEP STATE WITHIN THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT A U.S. MAGISTRATE OR FEDERAL JUDGE HAD TO SIGN OFF. HERE’S WHAT THE FBI AND PROSECUTORS HAD TO CONVINCE THAT JUDGE OF. IT’S TWO PARTS. FIRST, THAT THERE’S A CRIME THAT’S OCCURRED WITH FEDERAL JURISDICTION, AND SECONDLY, THIS IS IMPORTANT, THAT THE EVIDENCE OF THAT CRIME IS IN THIS PLACE WE WISH TO SEARCH. THAT HAS TO BE FRESH INFORMATION. THAT COULD BE SOMETHING THAT’S A YEARS OLD OR EVEN USUALLY SIX MONTHS OLD. IT’S GOT TO BE UPDATED THAT THOSE DEVICES, THE RECORDS, THE ELECTRONIC STUFF, THEY’RE RIGHT HERE. WE KNOW THEY’RE RIGHT HERE. SO YOU LED OFF CORRECTLY. THERE HAS BEEN INDICATION THAT FOR MONTHS, MAYBE AS FAR BACK AS DECEMBER, THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK WAS PEATTITIONING TH DOJ IN WASHINGTON TO GO AHEAD WITH THE SEARCH. FOR WHATEVER REASON, TIMING OR WHATEVER, MIRACULOUSLY IT TOOK A NEW ATTORNEY GENERAL AND NEW DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR A SIGN-OFF. BECAUSE IT HAS LAWYERS, IT GOES TO A SPECIAL UNIT THAT SAYS, OKAY, WHAT IS THE PROCESS HERE? FBI AGENTS WHO SERVE THAT SEARCH WARRANT CAN’T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE SUBSTANTIVE INVESTIGATION. WHY? NOW THEY’RE GOING TO START LAYING EYES ON POTENTIAL ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED INFORMATION. THEY SERVE AS A FILTER TEAM. THERE’S LOTS OF PROCESS, LOTS OF STEPS HERE, AND IT ALL PLAYED OUT THIS MORNING. >> WHAT ARE THEY LOOKING FOR, FRANK? >> THEY’RE LOOKING FOR EVIDENCE OF A CRIME. PIECING TOE WHAT WE KNOW IS GOING ON, AND NOW PIECING GOING ON, AND NOW PIECING TOGETHER THE FACT THAT VICTORIA TUNGSEN WAS SEARCHED, AND RUDY GIULIANI WAS SEARCHED, WHAT DO WE KNOW THAT’S PUBLIC INFORMATION? THERE’S UKRAINE IN THIS MIX. THERE’S POTENTIALLY THAT FOREIGN MONEY WAS PAID TO THEM. WE KNOW FOREIGN MONEY WAS PAID TOO THEM. FOR WHAT? YOU MENTIONED IT IN YOUR OPENER. LET’S FIND SOME DIRT ON JOE BIDEN. 248 THIS WILL GO BEYOND THE FOREIGN AGENT CASE. THIS ISN’T JUST A LOBBYIST WHO FORGOT TO FILE PAPERWORK. THIS OPEN PANDORA’S BOX ABOUT THE POTENTIAL OF FOREIGN MONEY COMING INTO THE 2016 CAMPAIGN, TO DIG UP DIRT ON JOE BIDEN, AND POTENTIALLY HUNTER BIDEN. LET’S NOT FORGET WHO DOES LET’S NOT FORGET WHO DOES VICTORIA TUNGSEN REPRESENT? DIMITRI, A OLIGARCH CLOSE TO VLADIMIR PUTIN. >> I DESPERATELY WANT TO TURN TO CHUCK AND BILL BARR. YOU HOPE THIS RAILROAD TRACKA QUESTION. FRANK IS THE ONLY PANELIST WITH FBI EXPERIENCE. I’M GOING TO STAY WITH YOU FOR ONE MORE HERE. WITH THE CRIMINAL -- THE CRIMES IN THE CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION ASIDE FOR A MOMENT, WE NOW HAVE A JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WHO HAS LIFTED AN OBJECTION FROM THE PREVIOUS MANAGEMENT AT DOJ TO PURSUING INFORMATION THAT MAY HAVE AT ITS ROOTS FOREIGN MONEY, THAT MAY BE COMING FROM VLADIMIR PUTIN, THAT WAS EXPLICITLY TO SMEAR JOE BIDEN AT THE VERY, VERY BEGINNING EVERY THE PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN. WHAT ARE THE NATIONAL SECURITY IMPLICATIONS OF WHAT THIS INVESTIGATION UNEARTHS? >> YEAH, THE ANSWERS ARE GOING TO START COMING HOPEFULLY NOW, ANSWERS THAT EVERYBODY HAS BEEN LOOKING FOR. IT’S GOING TO BE SLOW AND METHODICAL. IT’S COMPLICATED BY THE FACT THESE ARE LAWYERS, AND LAWYERS FOR THE PRESIDENT, BUT LOOK, I’M FOR THE PRESIDENT, BUT LOOK, I’M ASSURED AND ENCOURAGED TODAY THAT THE PROCESS IS CONTINUING, THAT SOMEONE IS TRYING TO GET TO THE TRUTH. THE SO-CALLED NO COLLUSION HEARING YOU’LL KEEP HEARING, THAT THE MUELLER REPORT FOUND NO COLLUSION, WHICH I DISAGREE WITH. I THINK THEY’RE HEADED IN THAT DIRECTION. IF INDEED FOREIGN MONEY IS FLOWING THROUGH SURROGATES INTO THE 2016 CAMPAIGN, THAT’S WHERE THIS COULD BE HEADED. >> NOW, CHUCK ROSENBERG, I FEEL LIKE THESE COMMENTS MAY LAND LIKE BODY BLOWS ABOUT THE DEPARTMENT YOU REVERE AND SERVED IN, BUT BILL BARR’S PUBLIC FACING BEHAVIOR, WHO MEDDLED IN THE STONE AND FLYNN CASES IN A THE STONE AND FLYNN CASES IN A MANNER THAT SO REPELLED CAREER JUSTICE DEPARTMENT -- WHAT WAS HE DOING BEHIND THE SCENES? WHAT QUESTIONS DO YOU HAVE, BASED ON TODAY’S REPORT? >> YEAH, ONE OBVIOUS QUESTION IS WHETHER PROSECUTORS IN THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK, NICOLLE, WERE REALLY BEING INTERFERED WITH AT A POLITICAL LEVEL IN A POLITICAL WAY FROM THE LEADERSHIP OF THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, RIGHT? YOU MENTIONED FLYNN AND STONE. I THINK THOSE ARE REALLY IMPORTANT ANALOGS. WHEN BIG BARR INTERFERED IN THOSE CASES, WE HEARD LOUD AND CLEAR FROM THE MEN AND WOMEN IN THE FIELD ABOUT WHAT WAS HAPPENING, AND WHY IT WAS UNACCEPTABLE. WE HAVEN’T QUITE HEARD THAT OUT OF THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK. WE KNOW THERE WAS SOME, I GUESS, HOSTILITY BETWEEN THE FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY JEFFREY BERMAN, WHO HAS A VERY GOOD REPUTATION AND THE POLITICAL LEADERSHIP OF THE DEPARTMENT, BUT NO RECENT IG NATIONS, LETTERS, FILINGS THAT INDICATED THAT THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK PROSECUTION TEAM FELT THAT ITS CASE WAS BEING MISHANDLED OR POLITICALLY MANIPULATED. SO A REALLY IMPORTANT QUESTION FOR ME IS, WHY THE DELAY? WAS IT NEFARIOUS? OR NON-NEFARIOUS? DID IT HAVE TO DO WITH ACCRUES PROBABLE CAUSE, THE LEGAL THRESHOLD YOU NEED TO GO IN THAT FRANK SO ABLY DESCRIBED? OR WAS IT SOMETHING ELSE? I THINK THAT’S THE IMPORTANT QUESTION. SITTING HERE RIGHT NOW, I DON’T KNOW THE ANSWER TO IT. >> LET ME STAY WITH YOU ON BILL BARR’S INTERSECTION. DONALD TRUMP TOLD PRESIDENT ZELENSKY OF UKRAINE TO COORDINATE WITH RUDY GIULIANI COORDINATE WITH RUDY GIULIANI AND BILL BARR, NOT JUST RUDY, BIG BILL BARR. BILL BARR ACKNOWLEDGED AN INTAKE PROCESS TO VET THE INFORMATION. BARR HAD A PROCESS SET UP FOR THE UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE TO INTAKE INFORMATION THAT WAS COMING THROUGH RUDY FROM UKRAINIAN OLIGARCHS WITH TIES TO PUTIN. WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT? START AT THE BEGINNING, CHUCK. >> START AT THE BEGINNING AND GO FOR THE NEXT SEVERAL HOURS, NICOLLE. WHAT’S WRONG WITH IT IS THAT RUDY GIULIANI WAS PROBABLY THE SINGLEMOST UNINFORMED AND UNRELIABLE SOURCE OF INFORMATION IMAGINABLE. AS WE SEE THIS PLAY OUT NOW, HE WAS A CONDUIT OF INFORMATION FOR RUSSIAN INTELLIGENCE, WHICH IS ABSOLUTELY ASTONISHING. IF YOU JUST STOP THERE, RUSSIAN INTELLIGENCE WAS INFLUENCING THE INFORMATION THAT RUDY GIULIANI WAS FEEDING TO THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO TRY TO SEEK DIRT ON A POLITICAL OPPONENT OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. SO, MAYBE BILL BARR, AND I’M DONE WITH GIVING HIM THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT, WAS TRYING TO MOVE GIULIANI OUT OF THE WAY AND SET UP A SEPARATE CHANNEL FOR ALL THE NONSENSE HE WAS FUNNELING TO THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, OR MAYBE THEY WERE TAKING THIS STUFF SERIOUSLY AND THOUGHT THAT GIULIANI NEEDED A VOICE AND HAD TO HAVE A MEANS TO RELAY RUSSIAN INTELLIGENCE TO PROSECUTORS, WHO, BY THE WAY, THANK GOODNESS, AS FAR AS WE KNEW, NEVER ACTED ON IT. ALL OF THIS IS REALLY MUDDLED RIGHT NOW. IT’S A BIG BLACK BOX, WE ONLY SEE LITTLE, LITTLE PIECES OF IT. BUT AGAIN, TO FRANK’S POINT, TODAY WAS A BIG DAY, AN IMPORTANT DAY. WHATEVER WAS HOLDING UP THAT INVESTIGATION IS GONE, AND PROSECUTORS IN THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK, THE CAREER FOLKS, THE MEN AND WOMEN IN THE FIELD WERE ALLOWED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THEIR FBI COUNTERPARTS. IT WILL TAKE A LONG TIME. ATTORNEY SEARCHES ARE COMPLICATED. THE FBI AND THE PROSECUTORS NEED A FILTER TEAM OR CLEAN TEAM TO
