Christopher Hitchens on American Politics [V498]

yes it's it's a it's an EEPROM the belt yeah I can Delta yeah I decided to wear words all of the French built in Bordeaux doing flowers typically and just let me know in you're speeding over speeding okay um well let's start with a with a general statement and you're probably in a good position to answer this because you are many cultures do you think there is an American style of politics political discourse I think there's a distinctively American style of politics that can be identified both in substance and in style the style is well-known internationally especially now quite widely emulated that's to say razzmatazz bands balloons rallies that pre-arranged photo ops well it's entered the international language the Israelis have their elections like that even the Russians have their elections now quite like that the British more and more have their elections in that style and the substance is one where the whole a despite the dramatization of the events is to create consensus that's to say to exclude issues that can set speed divide people and the encapsulating remark is the in elections most people run against the politics of division which is seriously gonna Gatien alittle idea because politics is division by definition well what is do you think that he'll serves Americans or what what do you think that why do you think that's the way well yes I think it's a pity in other words with elections should be so confused whilst in politics politics being just as excuse me I don't mean I think it's a I think boys needs to be regretted if the electoral process becomes turbulent politics if we define politics is the art by which people achieve self-government elections are nothing to do with government at all they may sometimes choose some of the people take part in governing they don't determine any of the principles published it's done only for any of the methods by which is done in increasingly it seems to me elections are referenda or pleather sites conducted by politicians to validate decisions for all positions that already made or taken thus they're not even really a spectator sport because there's a sinister under participation in it passive people are being conscripted into the process that they are not allowed to fully understand what is it that you find appealing you've been writing about American politics for quite some time what is it that you find appealing about it or whatever fascinating or Paul I think you like why do you what what rings your bell well I suppose that what what interests me is uses here's a society okay go ahead are we willing anything of those kind of things because any of your yeah that's a lot of times great look like yeah okay okay um the United States this country so various and dramatic with no one person can ever claim to have seen for that no others never will be anything it's full of color and instances everything just take this here everything from the Million Man March to the militia movement and huge conflicts with society very much divided and verified against itself and politics manages to exclude all of this completely by the time and elections conducted anything any of this drama color struggle incident texture has been completely bled out of the picture and one ends up with a certain kind of pre-selected consensus candidate in front of all candidates who found in determine to make sure that nothing disturbing and intruding on the picture do you think that's true I mean I would probably say that's certainly true of the national elections do you think that's true and smaller you know local races gubernatorial races city council races alkanes I should try to comprise your question my answer should not yeah that'd be well it should be yeah yes hey mommy be clear what yes of course what at the national level where the whole of consensus certain the hold of consensus and of management and smooth running operators is not as great at the local level specific national one I remember for example going to the gubernatorial election in Louisiana a couple of years ago where David you cognize to secure the Republican nomination and in New Orleans on the final day there was no question that there was an election going on and that there was quite a lot at stake in it and people minded sort of pre passionately about it what was sad I found was that some were saying by the time the polls have closed everyone knew what the result was there was no moment of going to a bar I went to a David Duke bar hoping to see the results come in you know among his supporters and see the atmosphere changes the different precincts reported and all of that kind of thing I think is the lifeblood of democratic politics and because the exit polls have told us everything we knew before we've got the first printout so I found that was sad because again it gave more than the impression sometimes that everything was being run in a parallel universe now if you talk to people who work in politics as I'm sure you know many of them they love this stuff I mean they and they're not there many of them upright people and they're but they're passionate about this they will move off to Nebraska to work on a campaign you know at the drop of a hat you know for not a lot of money they're getting something out of it yet the general public seems to have a completely different in different attitude towards towards the political system at least that's what we've been told how do you counselor just as the election often seems to take place in a parallel universe people who work in politics are a breed and race apart that's another symptom of what I mean there are those who are in politics in this or not there's no sense that politics derives from the electorate or politics derives from society there's a just little politicians and there are political animals and operatives I know people who live the campaigns who go anywhere for a campaign who indeed make their living that way the money is so sometimes are good it's not always like the starting rates are very great but the rewards can be enormous they love number-crunching they love to do exit polls they love to do opposition research they have a private language of course it's quite well expressed in a movie by Richard Gere poor power I haven't seen it but the life of Washington political operative they're very adaptable they'll work for any old campaign that if you wanted a good example such a person who's actually one of the refugees been able to invest this little wonkish world with star quality George Stephanopoulos is a regular example he was looking for a candidate about five years ago he was pretty sure Bush could be defeated he decided he wanted the kind of Italy Democrat he was pathetically work for Gephardt he had welcome to caucus he ended up working for Clinton it was an essential send in him he was just looking for a campaign he could join other Washington has thousands of his people and I do think that those who in the end get to vote have any idea of the life of those who decide what it is they're going to be voting about if anything do you think people like that who essentially are in a campaign gypsies do issues matter to them or are they basically just looking for a candidate can wait I mean what's more important for these people the thing that has often struck me in talking to the professional policy wonk or campaign gypsy is how little it matters to them even if their candidate should win I remember particularly having the ceiling in the close the Dukakis come in various people in Washington have been drafted it often from other senatorial campaigns to work for the campaign's if you talk to them about the upcoming debate with works and said look if you go Dukakis discretion oh sorry let's wait away with I'll go find him I can do that again okay yeah now if you feel a specific like about Stephanopoulos even though it's a good point I think it's going to be too specific we think so a bit I thought I could risk it because he is yes well-known going you know it's fine it just then to have a name like that and have next chapter name recognition decided once personal interests that we use this set models will never be the character in stone well like so the order if I don't have a few convictions I think I think they all do but I think that they are also exciting the fragment some of the powers going to be really amazing if you let me know when you're speeding against are kick all right where were we people I don't hear you say I was giving a use David good yeah it's going to be Tuesday its gravity specific oh gosh uh button well okay I'll have to mean I can be general I always feel I need to run home an example okay what should I do that one again yeah why don't ya just talk about you know issues and convictions among the people work in case I might be unfair to say we're not seem unfair to say that some of these professional campaign political junkies gypsies lunks whatever you wish to turn them have no convictions I'm sure that they must have privately I mean it's very hard to conceive the human being who doesn't but what you can't say I think is how little those convictions matter often to then in how they select which counties are going to work for or how they're going to present that candidate in point of fact I can remember very vividly in the closing stages of the bush Dukakis raise a number of people were being drafted in to to the campaign off other campaigns other states other Democratic resources came into Washington I went to parties where they were I would say to them look in this upcoming debate between the counties in Bush if the carriers to say this equal republish in a defensive posture he said that he would really embarrass him they really went listening at all wasn't because of my boring droning hypnotically del delivery it was because that I was completely missing the point of the campaign the point was entirely one of packaging presentation and so forth and and they would be willing to do this for any candidate tool and many of them indeed were talking about what their next campaign was going to be it having become obvious to them that this was something they just had to work out their contract on then go find someone else to work for it's like certain seedlings actually spread themselves this way and pollination this mattifying attach themselves to the fleece of passing dog or sheep and in that way distributing themselves well it's it's not unlike what are they doing why are they doing it then we just show that intervening door I think good we my little boy England okay okay so there you know so why do they do it if not to you know press their views on a wider wider problem mr. Ward just one of the right here not lists that would be produced by Washington once worth of Washington novel with the title honor power riches Fame and the love of women these the supposes rewards all the ambitions of every mad anyway I don't think many of those things come to the professional politician though it is possible to enrich yourself all the professional political operative I think they do it because I have really actually sometimes I mean I'm asking myself now of the ones I know I find a very difficult matter I'm Sophie associating excuses to you I think that they do it for the vicarious connection with power I think that to them just that picture on perhaps on the piano in later years whereas the candidate make his acceptance speech in off to the left of someone no one's bothered to identifying the caption that's their man that's that's enough some people that's a really quite point in the element and I think there are people who like to be first with the news probably one of the few advantages of the job is now if you live in Washington work on this kind of campaign you live in that sort of world very often you don't have to rely on the newspapers for information and that is a nice feeling and when you read the papers you as you know more than they do you can tell your relatives things in advance in your friends there is a thrill to that and I think it's very addictive to you know the idea of having that oxygen cut it off with a we've seen an appalling one and as a result people are willing to switch parties as well as candidates are necessary in order to stay in the game and I can think of many people who can but would you say they're looking for generally a moral profession or a cynical profession or going to be different constrictor let's we can paddle our politics yelling that just just analysis the behind these people will unlike every profession the question comes liberalism as with every profession the questions bound to arise does this profession have any professional ethics to it well no really because they would all have to say if they were honest and they will all say actually even if you don't ask them the winning isn't the main thing it's the only thing and that really employs its is absolutely true because there's no place for those who comes in second near Awards lobbyists will not call campaign donations will cease to arrive itself so yeah it's it's not cents completely unethical and well now hold it hold its data yet the country on a certain level functions fine I mean people sometimes feel like they're in these areas you need your met and they're represented so this is there something about the system that's working is it is it generally designed to just work this way and be a mess they'll you know soldier on there's a very famous description of democracy in the democratic process or the state of democracy by Winston Churchill in which he compares democracy to a water love raft it's very sluggish very hard to get to move anywhere or do anything but it's very very very hard indeed to sink it so in many ways there's an appealing mediocrity to American projects and they might begin an appealing indifference on the part of most people to the way in which its kind on most people as the bikini involves repeatedly confirmed our stupendously ignorant they very few people can name their congressman for example as a simple matter of fact very few people cannot be budged on an issue of a question it's very slightly also their arts will come out different there they're almost contemptibly easy to manipulate only nothing can be more disgusting and overhearing opinion poll experts tell you how they can achieve and condition a result from Semyon earth or shall we say not to be condescending ourselves very malleable and suggestible electorate and of course it's also very well known that the figures fluctuate but it can be nearly a half and sometimes more don't bother to read at all or ten don't even register to do so every time then the pundits will publish articles deploying this and saying people are too cynical as our project my view is if people believed in this person's any more than they do there would be cause further the cynicism level has got to be kept very high otherwise you would have to accuse ourselves of deliberately fleecing people are taking and growth right now we have actually encountered plates there are places in America where politics really is is something that everyone doesn't get involved the turnouts tend to be higher Louisiana where we live for ten years as one of those places like places in Rhode Island you can argue that that kind of involvement also goes hand-in-hand with a sort of general corruption but it in fact people are more involved is much less you know I see what what one anyway sorry places where there really is a lot of involvement in politics the less the level of cynicism is hot I mean it's correct question to cookie is a politician that's preserving the case in Louisiana nevertheless everyone was involved everybody knew who not only who their congressman was but who their assessor was I mean they elected you know they're 28 Assessors for the city of New Orleans it was a very sort of election heavy place do you have any idea why that might be I mean let me let me let me start if I'm just creating here too because in fact one of the one of the North common places of the pundits is that oh gee you know cynical apathetic that's bad for America to the naively expressed conduct view that it's pretty good so much cynicism there's an equally naive implied corollary which is that if it was more enthusiastic popular participation everything would be healthier actions no correlation thought in political participation and that will help we have before us for only recently behind us the examples of tiny ball in the boss tweed machine in New York very recently the Cook County Democratic Party in Illinois big turnout lot of participation great deal of corruption great deal of GRE great deal of demagogy great deal pan greasing and also a great deal of unthinking machine partisanship just a matter of getting out the roads as you know live or dead etc registered or unregistered those only vote off and all of these are signs of high conservation there are a couple of towns in America that still goes on that's worthy and there is one time where it seems to me there's a very high level of participation and a fairly low level of corruption and that San Francisco where politics is still quite a big local deal and everyone finds it even quite enjoyable and it's quite colorful and it seems to discuss and people even go from door-to-door canvassing for having seignior on propositions sometimes which a California speciality as well as the election time so but with that with that shiny exception I think I would have to say that participation and health are often inversely related let's talk about the necessary San Francisco specifically but one of the things that struck me I've been out there a lot during elections I have a lot of friends who live there and it goes back to the whole thing what winning is the winning is the most important thing in politics and I certainly wear a lot of what I would consider to be somewhat idealistic campaigns that go on in San Francisco in some of the propositions it's to advance a particular point of view and there is often a kind of a ideological purity test that sometimes rains in situations like that and so when that when they lose which often happens when the ability when the the propositions are too pure there's a real kind of dissatisfaction with the process and that seems to me to be a fundamentally misunderstanding about how how the how the process actually works well if you guys have to watch these go on to say what you meant by ideological purity well I just noticed for example in San Francisco and in Berkeley Santa Monica I tend to know the left the left examples although I think it also exists on the right we're seeing that with anti-abortionist yeah where if you stake out a position on on an issue because you believe in it and you don't wide me the widen your possible catchment of votes then you end up sort of being right on the issue but you don't end up winning and for some people that that's the point and yes it seems that our political system does not reward that kind of that kind of approach that's one of the reasons why it seems to why the national campaigns are so bland and you and and you know they in fact because they're in to win they're not in there to necessarily make a political point or else you're like Pat Buchanan is going to you know if you like a communist much completing an idle but I will come yeah well that's fine and what you agree or disagree but I mean video wonder if I'm speaking to a point I think I am um in my country articles never know that say with you what is it that's only one I was thinking we usually get more silence and quite often choppers move at this high head yeah looking when you're really okay in my country of origin press you can tell is England projects is organized rather more dialectically that's to say the part that the party is a much more class-based version we've brought up the opportunity and debating society the shape of the chamber in Westminster where the benches face one another directly Prime Minister's question time debate disagreement confrontation formers it's a lot of those more apparent than real but it does set it to him in the United States the whole effort of projects and you can tell it from the shape of the Senate chamber House chamber is one of the search for agreement such a common ground the social consensus but you know one who's ever seen it were not in my lifetime really colorful debate going on these places they're there as sort of management committees of the consensus and of course they're also there to raise a great deal of money and then redistribute it more near to their own arts design this means that election times again the prize goes to the first and most convincingly appear to be all things to all men it's not by chance that's considered to be great skills it's okay so where do understand we're really hoping again sure I could have tried again in the Korean I think most of them was actually family using a but I was wondering from I took to wrong clearing the third world with maybe not yeah we let's get but yes yes is a in my country of origin which you can probably tell is England things are very slightly different in that you can tell from the shape of the chamber in Westminster House of Commons where the benches face each other and the two parties confront that the idea of cousin trust debates confrontation and so on there it can be more apparent than real is the very latest styles what sets attack very very different in the United States look again the shape of the chamber in the Senate or the house it's it's round you can't tell from where anyone sits as there is an aisle but you've a look at anyone across it everyone's facing as it were towards the middle and metaphorically that gives you a rough idea that the search of consensus dominates these meetings no one can remember in this generation of colorful debate going on Senate that's not the point of meeting at a point of meeting notes to have a general management committee for the consensus about and to raise a great deal of money and to distribute it of course to the friends and supporters of each participant elections therefore become a search for common ground and pundits will award and do award points to the person who can most convincingly persuade every elector that he or she is represented by the said candidate Bill Clinton it was obvious to me earn his title as frontrunner a title he got before single vote had been cast the prisoners which I will conferred on it before any American who had dropped a single ballot or the single lever precisely because of his ability to be protein to be all things to all men and women and it isn't therefore by chance that's raised with America's highest political skill very people complain the politics is too bland the politics is - singing Florence is too boring if you ask say a Ross Perot supporter wake him up if you have - no no just stop in water on the street and say don't you think that parties in America spend much too much time bickering among themselves rather than getting on with the nation's business that's too much I'll sit here the person will say yes I'll guarantee that you will leave a few more questions in between so the triggers and 12 is and then ask him don't you think the two major players are not too much alike you infallibly apply asthmatic and in fact it's very unclear very often when you have movements that say they wanted that party it's around clear to many people why they always said one reason weather was fair as we don't yet have two parties so third party movement something will fail by definition question I throw something on over here the only type of person that says paint our political system joined the great issues at the time I mean worth debating emails gay narratives we're debating you know the future of public television were debating abortion harmful dermatitis of the list tomorrow eh good question it could be it can be said as I said earlier about the immense drama and variety in color of night and life in politics and society can be said look issues get debated or rights passionate exchanges on abortion for example tremendous quarrel with the memory of affirmative action an amazing in the eyes of the rest of the world struggle over homosexual marriage much else besides you can name your own flavor hits it certainly these things get discussed they don't come up in elections they're their own Institute of candidates in the presidential year is to make sure that an issue dies before it can become something that might conceivably upset is a terrible time mr. Clinton's first move where the gameaddict question came out was to say just give me a bill and I'll beat I'll put this ELISA to sleep I want it that way out the same with a nasty world or the other issues will that just happened sorry so yeah welcome yeah new year well sir yes permanently well it was kind of earlier it kind of expend a great deal of time making certain issues a knocked on the head before they can disturb an electorate or disturb the campaign it's the ability to do that as a very highly prized ability an immunity in a party manager taking an issue out of politics making sure that it doesn't become a partisan question any notice if we look at the language to what what is being admitted here is that some rigid effect to one-party system and there's a party of permanent power and influence of Washington party a Beltway party that other words are the t-shirts about them widely believed around the country happen to be true now actually yeah we're going to change station you anticipate my next question I just want to make sure that it's not particular eyes to the Vela you can stay in Washington but then duplicated in 50 it could I speak about what Angela's of political community I mean as a city there's an example or you don't want it to be that specifically when you put this up but after you know you can absolutely arm it's happened in other societies it's happening other modern societies and other times that permanent government's permanent oligarchies or elites or semi dictatorships even my general develop early regime in France would never dream of dispensing with elections indeed they're quite like having elect the one a particularly problem like is a referendum or clever side where the issue is determined in a glance and you can say yes or no to it well of course everyone says you couldn't possibly imagine that happening in the land of the free and the home of the brave and I don't think it has happened yet but I think there is more truth to the comparison than many people would be quite ready to admit if you look at just this year this presidential year by the time most primary voters had a chance to exercise their franchise the candidate had already been chosen there wasn't in fact anything to vote about and certainly was no issue in Washington DC which is a city as well as a political community now it's an actual society we don't know anyone in Congress but we do have primaries it was actually close to Council the primary to translate some money because there wasn't anything to vote about that there was thought that would look bad I mean for the look of the thing we can't have a nation's capital saying let's cancel the election for lack of funds lack of interest so there was a primary and eleven thousand people in the nation's capital turned down now that's less than what pollsters would call because I love the way they use this term the margin of error if you have do you have any other science by the way or pseudo size that determines whether it's a margin of error can be intelligent in advance it's quite extraordinary and is accepted for doing so but maybe I'm wondering from the point the fact is that elections are about themselves they take place in a parallel universe run by a special and distinct class of person and the electorate is simply the raw material for this demonstration effect for this referendum of clever signs on the state of spread now talk about the that was excellent talk about what the status quo is who's in the states if you wanted to draw those a versa used to be a confidence I used to be a competition I think it was started by Richard Reeves to the scarlet who was this year's chairman of the board of the American establishment for many years it was won by a guy in there when I fell off which made it all better John J McCloy was definitely the chairman of the board the awareness knowing some people used to think it was Henry Kissinger but probably if it's someone you've heard of it's not the right guy the permanent political class power class in Washington is composed of all would have to include at any rate this is not exhaustive it's inclusive the transfer continent and everything that goes under the generic title of the procurement community is I've actually heard it call vulgarly termed the military-industrial complex by President Eisenhower the legal community especially the trial was they the people who sources are on Kate Street the law firms to which politicians retire when they're out of office and plan their comebacks that's where they go routes the lobbying firms which can always offer a politician money which is not wrongly described as the Mother's Milk of the cortex though it's not described as such with sufficient embarrassment in my opinion these lobbying firms are tremendously important and they can convince legislators that they've gone into the wrong profession why not why don't you come and be with us they would have this map would have to include well sorry I'm just running out of steam now just ok that's ok well we have no Terry affiliate lawyers your lobbyist obviously business didn't mention that the others are obvious when the word Lobby perhaps needs a little bit of unpacking almost every business worthy of the name in the United States has its own antenna being very good quiches are yelling real helmet the word world Lobby which is on everyone's little if it's tab little unpacking every business interest in the United States worthy of the name either has or is its own lobby and everyone knows you can walk down what they call Gucci Gulch in the Senate where the lobbyists wait in there the spangles loafers to catch the elbow and seldom fail and you can say those four guys with tobacco there's the guy with National Association Manufacturers there is the guy who represents not legal groomin and it's very well other still indeed and they you know which table they have in which restaurant as well as if you care and afternoon about slightly so you have to include them in the permanent government then there are the professional political consultants these people are very important and they come in with very high price increasingly and they stay in Washington all year round and politicians come and go where they come and go to see these guys and then increasingly important I think and increasingly a thing unto itself is the opinion poll industry you might think it's being overestimated as a foursome thought it's as a matter of fact if anything's being underestimated at this kick area in fact I'm not I'm not here you know but I think they're back I wouldn't worry about the effect just to check for example the effect of the opinion poll industry or my own profession it used to be that newspapers would hesitate to commission opinion polls of their own with hesitate to publish opinion poll results especially when vote was close and would certainly hesitate to put them on the front page or put reporters biologics on them as if they were actually used now about any hesitation at all any newspaper that short of the story any day can simply make one up they commissioned their own at all they put their own reporters names on it and very often the swing or trend for we darling and now why don't we I think I think we're getting we're getting a mother I'm worried about getting a little too I think if you were moving more force against idea there is a political class and a political client really isn't affected by elections beyond just what you know I mean that's a little bit simpler and probably closer Louisana yeah no no I agree I mean I'm trying to the problem we're intervene you at a state as stayed in the production where we have a lot of material already assembled so we one play to our strengths yep and the very visible I'm sure you see that it was he said because it's the puzzle trying to get as we have this marvelous theme in Texas okay with the lobbyist you know you know the camera they let the camera onto the floor of the state Senate in the Statehouse so you can get everybody's arm twisting and all you know is what we saw and it is wonderful so to hear you commenting on you win an election you come to the tool brothers of film campaigning that's what I that's that's that's great yeah if you are if you are mr. or mrs. American Rosa then elections are seasonal thing in your life you know to expect a presidential one every four years everybody knows not to do that the more highly evolved political animals know what the periodicity of Senate and House races and even local wants are but they're there they are they come and go for the political class it's the campaign's government it's always election time it starts the day or electrically have to start amassing for one thing your treasury for the next run and that means a very great sense of discrimination in the sort of attention you'll pay to who and to whom and for what and that's that's the second nature of politicians it's not was breathing and you can see it on their faces of marketing it's also true of the political consultants of the law firms in the lobbyists every day at election dinner and that I think is why they hold all the cards when it comes around to the time for participation to be invited now it's your turn we've given you action the least you can do is letting it hurt that doesn't sound too cynical will rather get some job well it does sound cynical it does have cynical and and why should you know why should somebody who's you know twenty years old maybe working-class doesn't at this point have a have a bright outlook why should they then participate at all we should then just stay home or what's the alternative they're not about knowledge do they go and foment a revolution what's the philosophy ously the beauty of it the beauty of the the beauty of the arrangement is it's apparent openness anyone can join American elections are for all and the an argument which everyone knows is worn as smooth level is well if you don't like it you can go the other way of study around party or run yourself and many people have tried isn't very way to you have succeeded because they don't Italy and you don't little you get into it what the odds are and Halleck how well arranged the game is for long time in verticals it would be wrong to try and convince people that there was nothing they could do though a sense that well I can only one really pronounced remember signal be seriously though it's like if what is what is what is one to do if if the system is a tactic it is a system stacked against you or or is there or just something sort of trickle through a revolution is probably not going to be a real feasible answer in this country when we've been much closer to it before than we have nowadays needlessly as well it used to be I'm not a communitarian but it used to be that there were other levels of political participation in American life the word labor unions for example is very important there were civic associations local with neighborhood initiatives giving much more than the illusion of participation development giving people actual control over these the immediate effects of their their lives and experiences something about personal on America seems to have abolished or here a very clearly erroneous even the sense of community from which judgment participation could be expected to arise partly it's a physical fact I mean the way that roads have been built for example and has had a tendency to break up what used to be traditionally called a tightly knit it's a separate citizens rather from one another the way that the work has evolved is to make it much less a collective undertaking as it happens also the present time the discipline of scarcity and of unemployment means that people who go to work or principally worried about keeping that job and then not in trying to be as it will get a name for being a problem later at the office or at the plant or if it may be in other words if you are someone like myself who comes from a radical tradition believes in the possibility of collectively organized revolutionary Democratic effort and you look out over the social landscape it's difficult not to believe that somehow isolation is your fate now once we argue however that there are groups today which in many ways do provide that that collective action they just happen to be on the right and they happen to be religious but you know there's certainly and we've come across them you know like people in Minnesota they were never in politics they got they get energized by an issue usually abortion of course and they're very much it's mom-and-pop and it may be the labor unions of the of the 90s you know now one but the resize what would have to make one exception I think to the what the communitarian to the known is the decline of building leaks and the decline of consultation and civic and calming of life and that grant exception would be the churches are only this cuts both ways that I mean if you go to the A&E okay so I'll start again it's African aMDA heavenly and there's a passive people carefully check new things I said it there is one very famous television camera there's one very salient exception to what communitarians lament not to say the decline of everything from labor unions to building leads to fall where things that used to make up a Norman Rockwell sense of of a social America and that's the churches the churches are tremendous mobilizer they there were a lot of initiatives begin and there are local so a lot of the debates actually take place if you're running in Los Angeles because you're running in California at all you silly not to go to the AME Church for example and see real old-style African American energy political spiritual being mobilized and historical to traditional cultural of a lot music shouting holla we were used to hearing wrong speeches disappointed with the preacher isn't in good voice great stuff the same is true in large areas of the country also for the conservative wing where the organization of party is one of the first things that they have to be good at knowing how to play the old time gospel knowing what strikes people as moral this is issues of life and death abortion obviously is the common at Leeds but the procedure stop abortion is obviously the best known of these and probably the most intoxicating but issues of values how the children are raised how traditions are passed on our traditions are inculcated and also how communities define themselves people wanting to run petering out okay well I says let's look at any of your business whether or not that was fine but let's put an ending on that is that well that to me I mean my observation is that those people now finding themselves in full voice or fuller voice than they used to they are getting they are influencing elections they are getting their candidates in which of course is not necessarily the benefit of those unless they don't believe in their in their values but nevertheless the system such as it is actually appears to be working for them it is working on a grassroots level I mean yes the the per se of church or piety based politics is this not only is it very good at election times in mobilizing people getting them out to vote giving them a sense the morals and ethics are issues and can say whether they are or not and in giving them a sense of their own identity not just for themselves without against others but they also fulfill the you can just you know get don't you just don't work really just ignore I will tell you if it's like a degree okay so I was thinking you always go the extra couple seconds and there okay stop so okay there just because you never know I know start again the potency and efficacy of church fete the potency and the efficacy of which Michael church based or piety based politics is this not only is it a very good mobilizer at election times that can define an issue it can make it moral it can give people a sense of it's their duty divert it also give them a sense of their identity not just in and of themselves but as against others we are the Christians say we are the soldiers of Christ but it can also supply that missing element of local participation the feeling of belonging or the feeling of community and the feeling of court it is an expression on it now whether or not that's been manipulated because of perhaps not for me to say I think it would be the most important question but whether or not the feeling it gives people is genuine and gain might not be for a secular commentator to make the caller but that is increasingly important and it is filling out large bits of what is otherwise a somewhat vacuous political process is a fraction Commissioner is that one more question which is I think what we talked about before we turn the camera on if you can just sort of think for a moment as a summa devoted op ed leader yes thinking what are some of the little comforting nostrums in and homilies and sort of things that our pundits like to tell us tell us about our system that it was to comfort us when things don't go our way what am i favored I'll tell you one of my personal favorites is every time there's a doesn't change of party at the presidential level there's always a little explosion of columns about the system worked without a shot being fired it's not you know that looked like a Hugh sidey special you know so I'm just curious and it trying to take the long view of these things that may be necessarily specifically about equipping the riddle or anything but just just what if anything comes to mind yeah a great deal of the work country you were might very well say I think the whole work and enterprise of countries that it really is really fine okay I know it's my fault I'm hypersensitive so I've aged a very large part of the work funded for you might even say the whole project of country is that reassurance of telling people that basically they're in good hands and the system works my favorite is always the period just after the transition team at left town and the inaugural and you know you I'm sorry I can't do with that yeah okay I mean are going to just tell you I mean are are are essential I think our central message of the series is not to be too cynical about the system but on the other hand the last thing we are is pollyannas and we do want to sort of have these some of some of the more more pretentious stuff you know punctured some yeah balloons that the thumb-sucking stuff right now a very large part of the job of pundit fate you know you might almost say the essence of the job under clean modern world is that reassurance telling people that they're in good hands that the system works my favorite time is always just after the transition team is less we never think that'd be epic but darling what did you tell them wave firm that's always it's very you're taking that I can hear them and their family can hear me darling I'm a lot more forgiving now that I have my oh no it's never regarding what comes as you now realize you are the person who use not to want to have sit next very hectic grits a very great deal of the work content free you might even say little project of planetary is that reassurance of telling people that everything is fine there the system works that they are in good hands I always love it when the marriage of Hearts comes of the inauguration of a new president and you can count on it the commentator will remind the audience how lucky they are to see all it's happening without shopping file and how it's one of the splendors and glories of United States but it's always been able to have successful smooth transition I can remember for example David Broder who must be asked as the Dean of the Washington fan autocracy when President Reagan accused the press of increasing his difficulties at the time of the around Contra affair wrote an indignant column saying couldn't understand that anyone could say this that he knew as he spoke for all his colleagues when he said that they would do anything to put this unpleasantness behind the American people and get on with the job in governing and renewing America in other words not subconsciously but explicitly and consciously taking upon himself the responsibility of consensual or the smooth functioning democratically undisturbed government you can look to the language in other ways and see the same process of work the word partisan is always used as a term of pejorative the world by partisan is always use a terms of approbation the word divisive is the worst thing can be applied to a politician as if politics was not directly my definition and the the entire language of consensus can be read once you've mastered it which is doesn't take frightfully long in every headline in the New York every op-ed piece in The Washington Post everywhere the press accept accepted the cartoonist and even many of those cartoons are content to represent politics as a duo Gina fat donkey and fat elephant so while you have why every car I did I'm not institution the leaf I hardly ever write butter that's actually the one thing you can't get involved ident I wasn't didn't know why live in Washington exam bench to the products and it's um it's the hardest place in the world to get into a political conversation people will discuss anything bath party if you define that as a difference of how things ought to be done that's I don't remember the last time I had a real political long image the discussions all about who's in who's out who's up who's down as why should they not be because that is what politics has become but if you want to argue about how things ought to be done how they might be different your for people's eyes glaze over immediately they realize wheel businesses nothing too smart so that have to go in New York or San Francisco okay anywhere no no that's great now look I was going to say let's get some room tones without a child well we probably have it somewhere in the few must actually you have to assert because we do a lot of pausing I'm sorry that's it so no it's it's really fun

Channel: People Like Us - The CNAM Channel

Views: 64,473

Rating: 4.8802137 out of 5

Keywords: louis alvarez, andrew kolker, cnam, paul stekler, american politics

Id: rvmjgw8wxW0

Length: 54min 3sec (3243 seconds)

Published: Wed May 24 2017

Reddit Comments

[u/TheSunaTheBetta]

Posted to this sub a couple of months ago. It's an interesting watch.

[u/izumo13]

I love the pause he has at 34:00. He turns and gives a big grin, looking over at his daughter, giving her a very mildly stern warning of "Antonia..." and the interviewer comments on how good she's being. He was probably awesome to have as a dad.

[u/PastyFool]

Thanks for posting.