Christopher Hitchens and Pat Buchanan - On C-SPAN program 'Events in the News' [1993]

christopher hitchens this may not be the proper way to open up one of these programs but it's the summer and the Presidents on Martha's Vineyard what's on your mind I'm waiting to become a father and I'm wondering how on earth we could have timed things so as to be in the last month of pregnancy in Washington in August I have to play the sprinklers on my poor wife all the time when is your child due September 13 so that's the that's the true and correct and full answer I'm afraid it's all about me okay let's then go to the second tier yeah if we go to politics what's on your mother I see well I'm obsessed at the moment with with Bosnia and especially with the defense of Sarajevo and I think people are becoming more and more aware of the fact that where they thought they were staying out of Bosnia and keeping out of the Balkans in fact very shamefully the Western governments have become intervention minded on the wrong side there now there are the guarantors of the Serbian victory and they're part of the encirclement of Sarajevo they've become with the United Nations forces actually part of the shortened armory of the siege and I think if people understood that they were in fact intervening and intervening on the wrong side there could still be outrage and I hope that there will be Pat Buchanan I'll ask you the same question what am i doing when my my question is what am I doing here Brian well he's up at Martha's Vineyard our president I think he picked a pretty posh place to go on political grounds I'm not sure it's all that wise to shift from Hollywood out to Martha's Vineyard but seriously on what Christopher says on Bosnia I don't think there's any mood in the United States at all for for intervention of any kind and I think the president has stepped in and stepped out and stepped in again it's been very very badly handled by the United States but I don't think at this late stage there's anything United States can do and I don't think there's anything the United States is going to do about Bosnia or about Sarajevo I think it's over well as you say there's no mood for intervention but I think that's the way people are justifying it to themselves some people have an uneasy conscience about it and they generally realized that they haven't kept they have in fact committed themselves to a policy that this policy is not neutral by any means so by all means per se the United States and the Balkans should never be mentioned in the same breath but be consistent I mean as it happens the decision has been made to get involved so the non intervention option doesn't exist well there isn't there is a sense in which you're correct there has been intervention in that we've denied the Bosnians and the Croatians earlier access to Western weapons at the same time the Serbs had total access to the Yugoslav weapons many of which were provided by the West and so there has been a tilt unacknowledged and unintended but clearly a tilt against the Bosnian Muslims by the by the West by and large I think Christopher the the West wanted it over and done with and the real problem in my judgment in is the Europeans themselves and particularly the Germans this historically was their area of responsibility them in the Russians and the Germans because of what happened in World War two are in self intimidated from doing anything and the Russians of course are collapsing so everyone looks to the Far Away Americans and the Americans have no vital interests there he appeared on one of the sunday shows yesterday I was yeah I followed my good friend Bob Dole he did look I made the second part of the story there Brian that's the King I think Bob Dole is clearly looking at 1996 and I think Dole would be a compromise choice for the Republicans I think he reaches out to both wings of the party or the many wings of the party right now and and I think he's certainly looking at it and he could make an interim Pope my guess is that what Bob Dole is doing and this is a prediction he'll announce in Iowa that he's going to run for one term when he said that here oh he said one term one term oh my goodness I don't never seen anybody pick up on he said it right here he said I will be CI you know I sort of thought it through and I think that sort of thing which would try to bring all the Republicans together we're very very divided now at the Cold War's over it had him surfaced the divisions but I think Dole would I think dole could beat Clinton I think practically anyone could beat Clinton and I think Jordan quote mister about Adrienne Pope's which know my field but I thought of God jealous just another of the members of the permanent Washington government party I think that would be his disadvantage she's just one of these guys who's always around and empowered no matter who apparently has won the election and I would like to think that would tell against him if I was a Republican I would be thinking very hard about mr. camp you you're exactly right about telling against down a Bob Dole I do think this under nothing he knew about he's been here thirty thirty some years and I think in 1996 the country always sort of looks around what's new and fresh and Republicans do as well and there's nothing he could do that is would be his principal disadvantage let me show you the front page of speaking of ninety-six why are we talking about ninety six you brought it up it is well Bob Dole spent a week up in Wolfeboro New Hampshire's he said he went up there for the fishing and and I think he sort of put a focus on 1996 by so doing the front page of the Philadelphia Inquirer has a recognizable gentleman here on the front page the sunglasses on two thousand people were waiting for him at Valley Forge he had seven stops over the weekend he's made sixty speeches this year mr. christopher hitchens comment yeah what i think he is the he is the sort of the picture of dorian gray up in the attic he's always talking about the crazy arms in the basement I'm more interested in the mad picture up in the the top story that's what's happening to American politics well anyone's looking is that this this is what what we see if we look in the mirror is people who basically fed up with democracy don't believe in politics really at all are still prepared to go for what mr. Perot if it was anyone else would call a quick fix a little little thing in this door I want to ask you about is that mother Devine was there at this Valley Forge rally the wife of father divine and endorsed mr. Perot do you know he made the headline here it said he drew two thousand people including mother divine did you know that mother divine was still around I did not know mother divine was still alive was still with us but I think Owen Ross Perot he is a Republicans principal problem I think in terms of uh of recapturing the White House he helps the Republicans as of 1994 because the damage he does to Clinton but by 1996 if he should get into the race I think he takes Republican votes and he's captured Republican issues whatever you say about Ross Perot I think he's on the on the popular side and the right side of NAFTA I think it ought to be defeated and I think not only for his reasons but for other reasons and I think out in the country Bryan that's what the real energy and fire and passion are for the defeat of NAFTA not for its passage speaking of NAFTA now Jeff Danziger does cartoons for the Christian Science Monitor he has a cartoon this morning it might take me just a little bit to read it but I want to ask you about this it let me show the audience quickly it's a quiz so yes no quiz and I'm gonna drop this so I can read it I may still have toe rings hey print and then what you do is you check off yes or no in these boxes now the first box here is are you in favor of the North American Free Trade Agreement yes or no and I'd ask you are you in favor of the North American free trading room yeah I think I am is mother fun are you know it's not a free trade agreement it's it's a farce it's a it's New World Order all right second box we'll get back to all the substance second box is have you actually read the north american free trade no but I have read excerpts from it it is it is almost between one and two thousand pages long and when you add the side agreements it's even longer I've had a friend call to get a copy of it Brian and he found out that I think you have to pay five hundred dollars to get it and only the John Birch Society has thus far purchased to copy and they are not amused by the North American Free Trade there is a fellow and I was listening to the radio when I was out in the Midwest but hey man Chuck Harper there's a Colin show national call-in show I think it was I'm not sure he's on on religious stations but I was listening to a religious station where he was on when I was out there and he said they sell it for something like twenty one ninety five and they're selling it under the government price so there is a movement out there somewhere mm-hmm important documents these days by the way for example the very important report of the truth commission in El Salvador which implicates United States policy from way back into high up it's almost impossible to get hold of a copy and translation I haven't read the Treaty of Rome either I should say well it's my turn of a of a common market in Europe I mean if I'm not in favor of massive this free trade agreement I'm in favor of a northern storm a streak for the British well I'm certainly antithyroid on my strategy I think yes that's right on my streak and that's what this is this is a must streak for North America Brian it's a free trade agreement would take you to pay I mean one two paragraphs to write the tariffs are gone and the quotas are gone all these pages what this is it's managed trade cartelized trade the the treaty supersedes state laws it invades American sovereignty you got tri national Commission's invading businesses with right to find the United States government 20 million dollars per offense with the fines rising I mean this is New World Order Henry Kissinger has said as much and that's what's going to kill it I think because Republicans when they find that out they'll break with it on those terms because what they think it is now is free trade and it's not Geoff Danziger by the way his third box second was have you actually read the treaty club its third boxes if not you know anyone who's actually read the North American Free Trade Agreement yes I think I want to the one I've been quoting is James Sheehan of Competitive Enterprise Institute and we're trying to get copies out of my foundation American cause yes I'm pretty sure that so Nathan gardels the editor of new perspectives quarterly which is a fine magazine in California has read it and they've also conducted some very excellent interviews from both Canada Mexico and the US on the pros and cons of this and they they take a radical free-trade position which I think has been left out of the argument you'll see traders are they mean I know Murray Rothbard is friend of mine Lou run well radical free traders would take away all barriers militantly opposed to this treaty by the way there are two more boxes and you'll see the attempted humor on the part of Geoff Danziger his next box is if you don't know anybody who knows someone who has read the treaty do you know what know someone who knows someone who knows someone who is actually read the treaty the point being is that Geoff dancer if do you think this is fluid the vote count on this is I think it I think it is very fluid think that some Democrats who are now against it I think mr. Clinton will be able to purchase the way he did on his tax bill and many Republicans who are now for it as sort of a general proposition that it's free trade I think will break against it I think it's going to go down to defeat I think that the confusion between free traders the Platonic idea of this free trade agreement will probably tell against this agreement sure both of you are doing lots I hesitate to show this cover because for obvious reasons I wouldn't hesitate it's not a political cover what's in it that you had to do it my column which school cultural elite this month is about Hillary Clinton and the politics of meaning it's about the rather bizarre correspondence has been going on between her and the cackle Michael Lerner a very bright guy who edits of magazine called to curb which is of a Jewish liberal magazine and it's investigating the Clintons search for a catch phrase to describe their administration and say the politics of meaning which is Lerner's slogan might possibly become me but i don't think it will it's sort of backfired did it not I mean there was a couple of months ago there was a number of columns on Hillary in the relationship and Lerner got himself in a bit of trouble back here and D say well done has been attacked in the press a lot for trying to make too much of the relationship and I I don't know if it's if it's true that he's being dumped some people say the White House doesn't take the hairiest calls anymore but and anyway the White House is notoriously fickle to anyone who has ever tried to be its friend as many people can testify did you talk to Michael her sure yeah what what is the politics of meaning well the idea is that materialism and self-interest are such strong forces already in the country and in society that they barely need state and government endorsement and that what what are more spiritual politics would mean these are not my words but mister learners would involve government support for more altruistic behavior for example people who do voluntary work should be honored more than they are people who do boring work blue-collar work should be honored more than they are people who are racing families in difficult conditions including non classic nuclear families should be honored and supported more than their fairly bland in a way well the idea solidarity and the common good would be more of a theme than the the lone individual struggling away what you think well as it described there it's I think there's some very valid points there are a lot of people who do tremendous work and are not certainly not rewarded financially as well as they you know a rookie shortstop for the Detroit Tigers and and that's fair enough but I think it'd be a terrible mistake to give government in the business of trying to reallocate the rewards in society especially the economic rewards that's the back door to the socialism some of us have opposed yes but it's also a way of stopping well short of it I think I mean if you really want to be cynical about it what if you if you don't intend to redistribute the wealth as I'm sure mr. Clinton does not and hasn't got a socialist bone in his body then why not indeed go around giving people lectures on why aren't you more spiritual and less materialistic I think I think the working class is very right to be material that's not the normal terroristic or not that's a business of Bill and Hillary Clinton and and the cadres they brought to Washington to find meaning in my life look up to the White House I don't think so and I think most people have other ways to find meaning in their life than looking to government or politics at all it's interesting that we mentioned my vineyard earlier iron shepherd Malthus linear this yet another attempt by Clinton to make himself subliminally reminiscent of JFK and unlike Kennedy hasn't yet found as a slogan to campaign on here's a picture speaking of Martha's Vineyard the President and Vernon Jordan out on the Golf Links mm-hmm I didn't know I've been to Martha's Vineyard once and I did not know there was a golf course one day on there's more than one yeah there's another picture of the present what do you think of this man what do I think of Clinton I think Clinton is a man who's trying very very hard to be liked I think he's probably a good individual and in the sense that he I don't think he's ruthless or mean but I I think he adheres to a lot of ideas that belong to the 1960s and really have no relevance to our time and I think he's trying to impose these on society and I think it's gonna backfire this is a picture of the president with two young ladies that are meeting the president for the first time mr. Hitchens I've already made all the flesh pressing jokes about Clinton that I can that I can think if you want I think there's something completely Hollow at the very center of the guy neat needing to be like doesn't quite cover it I mean he has an absolute desperate need to be to be loved and approved of which I think it's a bad sign an individual very bad I think there is a hollowness at the core also I mean this is why I ALS's search for the politics of meaning in Hillary Clinton's a very bright woman and Bill Clinton every I mean he tried the New Covenant if you remember at the convention didn't that didn't fly he hasn't come up with any sort of defining Great Society or new frontier all morning in America you should excuse the expression thing yet and I think perhaps for a while the meaning might do it Deaver had a court to Center Christmas morning in America you know it's already apparent to me that you two don't differ a great deal on President Clinton at least I don't hear much support from either one of you is that right because I think can't think of anything less support okay we're gonna have to shift gears in on the audience because I can hear the clintonites out there on the ceiling right now saying there they go again we're going to switch things on these numbers this morning let's set up the numbers so that we can make the west coast number pro Clinton folks so that we can here give them a chance to we'll show the numbers on the screen and it'll upset the people that are now getting a ringing sound but that won't last long anyway with the way the telephone company cut you off after 40 rings so complicated but the West Coast number for Bill Clinton the East Coast number against Bill Clinton or anything but for Bill Clinton then we'll make sure that we hear a lot of you out there that are in favor of the present your what else are you doing you got a radio show every day Chris and I are gonna he's gonna co-host the show with me today it's the mutual Broadcasting System how many hours of exposure you're gonna get on a national basis today there'll be an hour to have here and we'll do the three hours on the radio that's for another column and you do crossfire at night are you still permantly at asta crossfire uh yes I am I do it excuse me every other week John Sununu sits in my chair on opposite weeks and we just in seven weeks into the radio show and mutual but it's joined very well we got a hundred and twenty two stations around the country you have a book so I do what is this book it's a collection of my stuff it's a vanity book really what does that mean means we printed that collected but my favorite stuff for myself I mean sort of just an exercise in conceit but it's cool for the sake of argument it sticks up for the smokers and drinkers of the country that's why the cover is such as a debauch it it's a record of the Reagan era in all the criticisms I had of that and as a Bush period and some warnings about Clinton and then some literary stuff and some foreign reporting mainly from the Balkans and from Kurdistan what happened to the book whatever they said it for this book yeah I did fine bookstores everybody doesn't have a price on no I think that's almost I wrote it and almost finished it and this was in March before we went back on crossfire and back to the column and I haven't decided whether I'm gonna go ahead with it or not really yeah there's a lot of things in there you go back and it tears off some bandages back in the campaign of 1992 and I'm not sure that I want to do that right now I'm glad doing the record and I have an offer and I'm considering whether or not to go ahead with it tears off some bandages me even criticism your own party I'll say yes and that's where it is and it's in the conservative movement in the Republican Party both Novak has a column this morning by the way that says that there's a real split in the Republican party and no one quite knows what they are and if Bob Michaels many of you saw Bob might his comments last week to the Peoria what was your reaction to that well he said he saw the Republicans as never more partisan and and militantly partisan toward the Democrats and Clinton as they are right now and I think that's not Bob Michaels cup of tea and I think he left the impression that he may not run again for raw majority or minority leader and may not even run again in 1994 I think he's very right about the militancy among Republicans I don't take that necessarily as a bad thing I didn't see Bob Novak's column this morning but Brian that is the truth if you take issues like the cultural war immigration illegal immigration interventionism in Bosnia and abroad freedom NAFTA Republicans are all over the lot they're only unifying force that got right now is opposition to Clinton especially on taxes let me tell our audience once again because of the situation with our two guests you never quite know what before people get here exactly how they feel we've got a line those of you who are Provo Clinton are in favor of this president like what he has to say it's short we're gonna have a line set aside so you can call up and get into this and defend him and and tell us what you think and get the positive side of this I should say that I was really crushed by mr. Buchanan's last book because I used to go around saying Pat Buchanan the only people he likes it seems to me a General Franco Gerry McCarthy and Cardinal Spellman and then in his book opens by saying these are the only three heroes have really had so I had to stop saying all this Douglas MacArthur was in their report case closed two familiar faces on the cover mm-hmm and also and this is about documents coming out coming out today today there's no blockbuster headline in this I haven't had time to roll these the documents that Oliver Stone got the Congress to disgorge I believe there's 100,000 pages CIA mmm-hmm but the reason I show you that cover is that there's there's john kennedy on the cover here it is 30 years later and then the washington post decided today to do this here's a picture of Bill Clinton and John Kennedy and they basically say that because at this boys nation event in the Rose Garden started his career and got him excited about politics they look at what's happened here in the last 30 years to government and you can see those you all can see those better than I can let's start up here at the top can you read it can you can you read from here now yes the government spends a small proportion of economic output on the military okay this is 63 and it goes all the way over it's spending on the military has been cut in half I think it was about 9% under Kennedy and it's about 5% now now what's this one that is probably domestic spending it's mandatory social spending mandatory special social spending as GDP it's almost tripled these are constant dollars by the way and since the $3 almost it's yeah I think that's the share of gross national prosecuted a Mansouri it's soared here let's go down here to this one let's see well the government has taken on increasing burden of maintaining incomes that's yeah it kind transfers I guess one last one down here in the midst of these changes the federal debt has exploded and you can see what's happened and that's in real terms is it real dollars yes that's almost eight fold I think and it goes on to say when JFK Day I trusted the government soared after years of war Watergate and dampening economy Clinton faces skeptical public look at this one up here this is where the that see people's faith in government has gone down there it's secure I think you have to put the the Kennedy Eisenhower terms almost together and when you do I think there was tremendous there was enthusiasm about government to his belief especially in Eisenhower's era and in the early Kennedy era and I think that's true the Vietnam War adversary journalism the Watergate affair all the rest of it what do you think of the comparison I hope the other figures are more accurate than that one I mean because I can't believe that 78% of Americans ever really said yes I trust the federal government most of the time I mean it's a non American thing to say people aren't really like that people are more skeptical it is true that having been lied into a war principally by Kennedy as a matter of fact by in Vietnam and lied to about it all the way through by Johnson and Nixon the people began to look more skeptically with the government with everything I mean I would say that's very positive finding that automatic trust in the word of the state axiomatic trust in the word of the state has gone down that's that should be a positive statistic right I just wish it wasn't true well there's no doubt you can trace it back to Vietnam and they and the link to the war I don't I think that's a great myth to say that we were lied in to the war I was writing editorials in st. Louis before Canada 62 and 63 we were writing now not only weekly but several times a week about Vietnam and it was it was widely debated in this country the wisdom of going in there clearly the Tonkin Gulf episode was a lot of larkey and it was a lot of malarkey involved but I mean the idea that America somehow slipped into that war is nonsense when Richard Nixon when we got in the White House in 1969 we'd been at war basically for about five years if you go to the Vietnam Memorial and look at the names see how's the the earliest ones appear in the mid fifties when General Lansdale was running a covert operation in Vietnam that no one was ever allowed to argue about the Michaels are being killed in support of the French empires attempt to partition and repress Vietnam and there was no one was ever consulted about I don't know how you could repress North Vietnam any more than it was repressing its own people well they was a couple of quick thanks for we go the phones this is a McNelly cartoon today you can see the bumper sticker says annoyed with Clinton retroactive to January first I take off on the retroactivity of the tax you know I think if there's three things or there are several things that conservatives I think the retroactivity feature of the tax bill could well be repealed I heard that Democratic senator from Conrad burns was denouncing it calling for a constitutional amendment I'll bet if they put that up for a vote the retroactivity feature will be repealed yeah I think that's right yeah okay of all the Democrats who I meet I just want to know what was all this about a middle-class tax cut I mean it wasn't my idea but it was Clinton the other day he had the nerve to say that during the whole campaign he never heard anyone even talking about a middle-class tax cut well no not except for him every day several times can't tell the audience that we want to hear from the pro Clinton folks we'll give you plenty of time to respond I know past is prologue you're hot right now wondering why we don't have somebody here defending the president strongly and that's just one of those things that happens it's not on purpose yesterday's New York Times portrait of a White House aide and snared by his own perfection this is a long take out you don't want to be read it thank you I didn't read data but I did read the take out a week ago I believe it was on in the Washington Post which I thought was very well done is it worth a front page New York Times absolutely no time I think it's done I think it's okay I kind it's extraordinary to me the amount of attention has been given to this guy he wanted the job okay he was being long-term political crony was the president he's been used as a huge excuse in a self-pity and introspection all across the town as if Washington was too hard on the permanent government as if people work in the White House have a hard time working on out all over housing the absolute opposite is the case he's very lenient town on people in power let me ask you both quickly about this I've taken a yellow pen to show how many times the Wall Street Journal is mentioned in this piece and it's all about the let me hold it up a little bit farther yeah it's all about how those editorials might have had I think that is really a cheap shot on the Wall Street Journal law clearly Wall Street Journal was picking up on the whole issue of the rose law firm and but web Hubbell and Bernie Nussbaum got worked over far more than Vincent foster I didn't know who Vincent foster was when you read that he took his own life I'll bet not I'll bet most of the journalists in his town didn't know who he was there's something in the in that individuals own personal psyche that caused him to drive up to Fort Marcy Park rather than just quit and go home I mean he had a nice wonderful family he was not hit that he was brushed he didn't get the treatment that our good friend ed Meese has gotten in this town or a Johnson Chris has a quite extraordinary look at me GK Chesterton used to say that the job of journalism was to tell the public Lord X is dead where they never knew Lord accent being alive and I think that that is very often true of these power brokers but I think it was the Wall Street Journal there it's a vicious paper in many ways was perfectly entitled to investigate the cronyism of Clinton's system in Arkansas our two guests this morning Christopher Hitchens who writes for the Vanity Fair has a book out and does a lot of other writing and Pat Buchanan who you see on crossfire has his own radio show on the mutual Broadcasting Network neutral Broadcasting System Goodwin MBS and it's time for the phones our first caller is from Houston Texas go ahead please yes I have two questions for Pat please sort of neutral questions in retrospect Pat would you deliver the same speech that you delivered to the Republican convention again and in the same manner and number two here in Houston your radio show is in directly opposite Rush Limbaugh's you know what do you think of that let me ask you first though caller what did you think of Pat Buchanan's speech at that convention I agreed with the critics what's that critics the critics that said it was sort of being spirited and not really catching me it made a lot of people angry now what do you think which program do you choose to listen to the Rush Limbaugh Show or the Pat Buchanan show well I am now a listener of Limbaugh show mainly didn't disagree with him he makes me angry and I listen mostly as I tried to work they play Limbaugh from 5:00 to 7:00 on the station that I listen to again they played three times a day and I listen as I go to work in the morning and it really pipes me up as I as I go to work they say don't need any caffeine in your coffee no thank you for your call mr. Buchanan well the the speech has delivered when it was delivered that night combination of that night George Bush rose ten points in the polls the night of the Buchanan Reagan speeches I see Chris smiling over here and actually when George Bush got up to speak on that Thursday night of his convention according to ABC he was only two points behind and he'd been 25 points behind several weeks before now there's no doubt that subsequent to the convention the media has trashed that address a weekend week out day in day out it's become one of the most famous addresses and I had not anticipated it would be brilliant did not anticipate oh I thought it was a good speech it was a strong speech endorsing Bush it did everything the bush people asked me to do in the speech they saw it beforehand no one thought it would have the impact that it did would you do it again oh yes I would do it again would you change some words perhaps so maybe you'd have something more something some change at the end but the point is that that I think what caused this great collision is the fact that it it hit a core of truth there is a cultural war going on in this country for the soul of America and I took a stand for our side and the vast majority of the national press are on the other side of these moral cultural social issues got to grab some calls we haven't heard Ferrari and Champaign Illinois go ahead please good morning would the Republicans wanting to be President it's no wonder the propaganda machine is out in full force and yes I forgot to mention the fat guy whose program is incidentally produced by Roger Ailes the Republican in its maker and you mr. Hitchens seems to be the past year gradually going toward the right really looking for a pro Bill Clinton calls but anyway I think she took that is a pinnacle but she's studying this how to hurt somebody I I guess what she means by it is that I'm not very much fond of the president then are you so she was still you know I would never discern that accusation is it sometimes made well in whatever tone of voice it came and I've often taken the opportunity to reaffirm it I think the fact is people are Democrats I mean some of them completely incurable all they can ever say to you is well considering the alternative and what I want to say to them is the alternatives what you want to be considering with otherwise if you still think you've got a pendulum are there any alternative will indeed be the extreme let me talk about rush a minute because she brought him up again I think rush is partly responsible for the problems Bill Clinton has today I mean he has an enormous audience 20 million a week he provides a certain amount of he provides entertainment value but what he does is he gives people out there at the grassroots many of whom are Democrats confidence in their own convictions he persuades him they were conservatives it's his show that's the reason my show is on the air mutual wanted something to go opposite Rush Limbaugh who's got the nation saturated with 650 stations and I think Rush has done a phenomenal job a phenomenal job for the movement and I think again just as I think a lot of women move to the left in a way from the Republican Party's a consequence to the Phil Donahue's and watching all those shows in the morning I think rush is responsible for some of Clinton's problems well nope tension was moving to the right from the New Hampshire primary onwards in fact has been moving to the right since the mid 80s am i taking a lot of Democrats with him there who don't realize that's where he's been taking them the limbo phenomena I think it's self contained I I must say love him or hate him I can't listen to him I can't watch him I don't understand what the fascination is but I was standing in a hospitality room not long ago where two Democratic senators were waiting to go on the air and all they were talking about was what are we going to do about this guy he's put the fear of Christ into the Democrats I think that shows how feeble they are you know they are moving move on the hill to try to write the Fairness Doctrine into law I think was dumped during the Reagan years and because their rush alone three hours a day is too much for them to handle I think it maybe if somebody want to balance when asked both of you where are the Liberals on radio let's go to Morehead City North Carolina go ahead please [Laughter] just like everybody else up there all right thanks for the call your principal the trilateral commission of course is is David Rockefellers organization sort of an extract out of the Council on Foreign Relations remember I've been not there never been invited not even to a meeting I think the woman has a valid point there is to me sort of a supranational establishment in this country that really would like to see the United States of America Europe and Japan sort of merge as the core of a new world order in which American sovereignty is diminished and America's freedom of action is circumscribed and people individuals who are much more comfortable flying to Paris or Rome or Tokyo than they would be in Boise Idaho or st. Louis Missouri it is a bipartisan establishment that includes members of both parties of both party you will find it 100% behind NAFTA a 100% for globalism 100% for intervention ISM and I don't think it represents the core of America which is populist and conservative and I think the woman has a valid point you remember have to be a brisk I think Andrew did say that I've always found people got about the tri-racial commissioner are probably prone to paranoia it is of course the case that there is a ruling class in this country and and that it has allies internationally and that can be analyzed out in the open you can read its proceedings in the Wall Street Journal and so forth the people who believe that this sort of hidden cabal of Rockefellers and Wall Streeters and so on it always just short of saying that there's the protocols of the Elders of Zion it seems to me Little Rock Arkansas good morning good morning how do you feel about the president well I'm from Little Rock and I don't like him I don't have you didn't have a used point while he was here this morning I just I guess you've already instituted the Fairness Doctrine I saw you do this the other day when you did these phone numbers you know it's it's like you think that everything has got to be devised to be fair I mean everybody's phone is the same I've been down in for eight months trying to get in no I don't think that at all first of all this isn't supposed to be a balanced program here and as you see we have two gentlemen they're not in favor of the president that's not their fault that's our fault so we try to make sure that we hear here people who are in favor and I'm not gonna let you stay cause you did a couple things wrong including calling on the wrong line twice because Little Rock calls in on the other line it's called a Walnut Creek California go ahead please you're on the air yeah thank you are you in favor of the President yes I'm in favor the president all right dude let's hear why that guy on your right tremendously that Pat Buchanan I think he stinks I can't stand him on crossfire when he's on there he just turns my stomach up along with that fat guy in some other program all right let's hold it there and let me ask you about the present you tell us all now why you like the president and what you think of the job he's doing well I'm at the Republican I don't think the Republicans that ever done anything good for this country I'm not sure that I like everything of the president but I'm so much better than Republicans I every place I go in California the rich have got richer they got all their big yachts and big homes and that my working of every Friday are they working on a place feed the homeless last Friday we served 345 in disparate California a very little place it's a poor getting worse all the time Pat come on yella come out and visit us how some of the people living there are rock bottom paddy I know they are retired and I'm trying to help well good for you but I know you are well I know they're on rock bottom and I spend a lot of time in New Hampshire a year and a half ago and that state was in far tougher straits than I've ever seen any American state visited in the campaign and you're doing a good job if you're feeding the homeless but my friend I don't think Clinton's I mean you talk about the big yachts we put a big luxury tax on those and in 1990 and after doing that I went down to buy water boats down in Georgia and you found out all the workers down there they were building one boat where they used to build 12 a year and these kinds of taxes and things don't create jobs nobody's ever taxed themselves into prosperity collar what do you like to tell us what you like about the president please why did they raise the tax of the Republicans raise the taxes on their little man last time you lower them from 70 to 28 yes you did you know them from 70 to 28 on a rich and you raise them for mine from 10 to 15 plus you who I couldn't deduct a lot of other stuff so my taxes doubled Pat I only made around 20,000 a year now are they six million in in that bill of eighty six six million poor were dropped off the tax rolls and and excuse me but Tip O'Neill said it was the most progressive piece of legislation he had ever seen come through the Congress but I agree there were a lot of things wrong with at 86 bill some of the real estate provisions and others which I think were damaging to the economy and those of us who were behind it have to take responsibility comment sir I always want to ask her people who are Democrats like that I people assume you say I'm a Democrat I don't like the Republicans how they explain if things are so bad that the Democrats have controlled Congress for most of the post-war period and what they think about mister Clinton hiring David Gergen who was the guy who sold the Reagan budgets to a credulous press and a lot an electorate and a gullible Congress as his as his public face for his administration I think until people work out that there is a one-party system in Washington they're gonna carry on making slight fools themselves when they call into shows like this because they all they really do believe that there's a partisan fight on the hill and then I have to take one side or another and it just isn't so I think that that you saw in 1991-92 and the election in Pennsylvania Harris Wofford when they in effect rejected the establishment Republican candidate you know the corridors of power fellow in our campaign in New Hampshire even in some of David dukes there were just a rejection of the establishment Louisiana in Terry Browns campaign and certainly in prose campaigns you've got manifestations of just what you're talking about the American people are fed up with Washington they don't trust Washington you saw Brian's poll they don't believe in the establishment of either party I think you mentioned that i bob dole this will be his most difficult problem in 1996 this country is ready for something new and I think Ross Perot is now the man who's riding the quest crest of that way but others could let's go to Santa Fe and this should be a pro Bill Clinton call well I am a Republican I'd like to point out to the pompous gentleman there who was talking about deficits and debt and government spending if we would have continued at the rate of increase in yearly revenues into the federal government that we were going out which was about five percent instead of the rapid doubling of revenues we had in the last 12 years these deficits would be worse because the Great Society great debt program were instituted they were mandated spending so when you want to blame the Republicans for breaking the bank keep in mind who instituted all of these programs that have failed miserably the reason I'm pro Clinton is because the American people have this rule they're very docile and passive they need a a problem to get out of hand before they do anything about it and the best thing to do is put a liberal in the White House have a liberal Congress and just let them go for it and he'll be just like Jimmy Carter you'll do more for the Republican Party will have three Republican presidents after this and it just seems to me that the the Democratic Party has Republicans should keep score I mean ever since the Civil War the Democrats have been on the wrong side of virtually every issue in okar you're really saying your for Bill Clinton because it helps a Republican after them us that we can see what is happening I mean I school choice is the next thing the Democrats are wrong about whether it's Vietnam slavery Great Society program again I'm gonna let you go this is a very frustrating morning for me I cannot get this thing balanced I wonder if trying to find fans but you know you saw that I think you're I think you're overdoing it by the way awful here's a guy who like all presidents has a huge publicity machine run for him as far as I I think by taxpayers expense has a huge spin-doctor system run out of the White House I don't see why one needs to keep on being fair to people who work in power you want to give up the hunt or shall we try for one more we're gonna try for a minute California that do you see the field pole over the weekend you think it was something like yes the wealthy 7% felt he did an excellent or good job and it was the lowest rating of any president at this period in his presidency since fields been taking polls and of course he tilts a little bit toward Democrats the field poll does I think and he's in terrible Clinton's in terrible trouble in the one state he's got to have two Bob Novak looking for the calm here this morning to suggest though that because of where he is and because the way the Democrat Party is that he will come right down the middle and go back and if you get parole if you get parole in the race it could very well happen can you see Ross Perot as a Republican I certainly can if you get six or seven people running and Ross Perot gets his organization ginned up in Iowa and New Hampshire I can see him everybody else out of money let's try one more New York City hi are you Bill Clinton all right tell us why can you turn did you did you and and do you like basically what you seen him do the first part of this year [Music] old are you 25 do you listen to Rush Limbaugh or Pratt you can on the radio [Music] where do you get your information about things that you like to know about and things you agree with who do you agree with in the media possible information altogether we're talking about the general okay thank you I think he is she said he's well-intentioned and he's trying to do his best I think that has come through I really do I mean I think he's extremely earnest I think he wants to do what's best for the country as he sees it I just think he's a prisoner of a lot of old ideas despite the the new Democrat which was a put-on and I you agreed with what chris said earlier I don't think there's any inner core and and the idea that this tax thing is gonna work itself nope said my piece on that I mean I it makes me sad when I hear people buy the previous cooler because you know these people they look for sincerity in politicians that's looking for it in the wrong place they should people should do their own thinking I mean I used to depress me Terry during the campaign he would hear people say well I'm gonna vote for Clinton I'd say why why is that and they'd say well because it's time for a change and I would say did you make that up will by yourself or do you hear it somewhere people are actually regurgitating slogans I just think people have to realize that if they put their trust in but anyone in this way they are in there inviting disappointment but you know those slogans are thought up by the spin doctors in response to focus groups and people are telling well let's go change in there okay let's just feed a line right into this let's let's take an issue that means a lot to you give us one thing that means what's the most important issue in your opinion tax balance the way that taxation and the equity of taxation means not me alright let's let's just ask both gentlemen here let me start with Christopher Hitchens ha what should the tax rate be for it should it be progressive and at what rate the first just want to say I don't think mr. Bennett I have agreed on anything so far it's only it's the deceptive good manners of this show so that I think may give you that impression we haven't reveal anything except that we don't think very highly of the president's character second I think marginal aggressive tax rates it's largely phony because I think it's politically true that people who would willingly pay more money if they thought the money was going to the alleged cause or problem or location do not trust the people who raise the money in other words they don't they don't believe that the object which the taxes are raised as the object which they will be diverted and I think while that's true and I have very sympathy with people who suspect that it is the argument about the rates will be obliterated by all the arguments about the loopholes and everybody knows that the people who are well-off can afford to pretty much set their own tax rate which began I agree with the caller to this extent I think that that that people should not be taxed if you could ideal system they would not be taxed on what are the necessities of life for them and their family sort of a family tax right and then above that I would have a flat tax all the way down the line until you get to the very wealthy you have enormous discretionary income and maybe something on top at the top of that because you have to have you got to compensate for what you can get through the Congress and I would get rid of all the deductions and except for the family exemptions across the blue like the surtax I would have a sort of a zero rate up to a certain level say 12,000 for a family of four then a flat tax of 10 percent up to a couple hundred thousand in a tax rate of twenty percent of all the way above that get rid of all the forms and all the deductions and all the rest of it which is not dissimilar to what Jerry Brown is running on during the campaign and one one attraction of that I thought was the following it would have obliterated this whole terrible class of accountants and lawyers and special tax advisers who represent a part of the economy themselves and second it would have ended this almost tyrannical relationship people have to the well the IRS has to be people are afraid they don't know whether they're breaking the lawn I'll get computer messages constantly from these IRS they're written in computer form it's not an individual writing you could get rid of a hundred thousand a RS agents a lot of tax lawyers and accountants all the rest of it put the form on one sheet of paper the way it was I've got a 1938 form on a single sheet of paper and and that would be Lancaster Pennsylvania first of all I find it astonishing that Christopher Hitchens is actually advocating a flat tax as somebody in with his background he should certainly know that's regressive and actually that's what we have in this country because the most dominant tax to the average person is not the income tax as everybody knows a Social Security tax about 8% on the employee about 8% on the employer which would otherwise go to the employee roughly about 16% per individual I'm a Democrat and I'm an actual authentic Democrat I'm a businessman I believe that Clinton did something very courageous and the Democrats did something very courageous by passing this bill which redresses a serious imbalance in taxation I don't shed one single tear for people making over $200,000 a year who might have to pay a little more in taxes the propaganda machine which mr. Buchanan's a part of that came down on this tax act and tried to spread the notion that this country was going to die as a consequence of what of the tax Act mr. Goel saying was the most outrageous tax in the history of the world or something to that effect did nothing but attempt to engender a panic in our business community and almost succeeded I'm happy to say that it didn't I I think that that's probably what the Republicans would like panic in the business community to give them back to the White House but I think that we have to commend mr. Clinton for his his courage and the Democrats for their courage voting this in the face of the Rush Limbaugh panic attack let me concede one thing there's no doubt that Clinton's astonished me he did abandon that to middle-class tax cut he said in the campaign clearly I will not raise taxes in the middle class to pay for my programs he broke the pledge there is no doubt about the boldness of what he did I was astonished that he put forward all these taxes into an environment which is really hostile to taxes it's bold and one thing it has accomplished it's restored clarity to American politics that was lost with the budget deal of 1990 where Bush and the Democrats got together so you've got Republicans are a low tax party again an anti-tax party and Democrats are a high tax party we're gonna see if it works hold your comment here because we little behind on calls Denver Indiana I go ahead please yes sir thank you for allowing me to call I am Pro Bill Clinton mainly because he seems to be a decent Christian without being a hypocrite about it I didn't have a problem with the Republican convention last year with you mr. Buchanan I had a problem with the timing of putting mr. Regan on so late the night but nothing that you said particularly offended me but I do have a problem with Pat Robertson and the more radical right-wing of what used to be my party the issue of public prayer in schools for example we've got to have public prayer in schools or prayer in public schools excuse me it's it's a burning issue with those people and yet when I open my Bible and I read Matthew 6 the person who founded my church Jesus Christ himself tells me the people who pray in public whether it's in the church or on the street corners or hypocrites we're supposed to pray in private in the closet God hearing us in a secret rewards us openly the same thing with donating money to the church in public and yet a couple of months ago I turn on the TV and Pat Robertson's on TV begging for money for the church people like that him and Jerry Falwell I never see him in a suit that looks like it costs less than $1,000 and yet his Christ Himself tells me it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to get into heaven hold on a second mr. Hitchens I was waiting for the proteins and yes but I mean I I didn't I didn't where to begin well I have no quarrel with him about prayers I think that is what is interesting to me and what I think is revealing is that um is this the schools they want the prayer and if people said there should be prayer on the planes or prayer in the Train so prayer in the workplace everyone would say well you know your you're invading our privacy of course they want it to be while they still can have impressionable minds and I think that that clearly exposes the totalitarian character of Christian fundamentalism but they what they want is voluntary prayer in the public schools voluntary Bible instruction and what they want is a lot of parents want their children educated and the convictions in which they were raised and the beliefs they were raised the traditions they were raised and the religion they were raised and since public schools are mandatory and since they take enormous amounts of money they feel that a compromise in a legitimate compromise is voluntary prayer and voluntary Bible instruction to public schools and I agree with him 100% one one point Ronald Reagan got on immediately after me the problem was that I went on 30 minutes late because a lot of the speeches before me went over some of the five minute speeches when seven minutes seven minutes speeches went 10 minutes but he came on though just a couple of minutes after me Riverview Florida go ahead please this morning and a mr. Buchanan I've looked up juice for a long time and I and I realized that there's a lot of people out there that are left-leaning socialist and and they hate to hear anything that you have to say but the truth hurts a lot of times basically I called I'm a small business person and he was on the business how in the world could anybody who owns a business think that the Clinton tax plan is good and especially anyone who would think that they're gonna be taxing the rich the consumer and I will continue to do that until I go out of business and I can't you know I can't get the prices that I have to have we have you do buy health insurance for all right thanks what about let me ask you the mandated employer possibility of employers having to to insure everybody that works for them like this gentleman of the Vincent health plan is to complete fraud from start to finish the fact is that everybody knows there's only one possible solution to this problem which is to have national health service and single-payer system everyone yes at least like Canada and everyone who's been asked and every time they have been asked has come up with a pretty unanimous finding on that and that's the only option that the pension task forces it as we used to call itself the forest or the sergeant's be disbanded said it would not consider the so called Hillary tax on small businesses a 7 to 10 percent of payroll would be a total disaster it would kill this man's business and I've talked to others small businesses he would really [ __ ] the small business community they're the ones Brian who created all the jobs in the Reagan era they're creating all the jobs right now as Xerox dumps 10,000 onto the market General Motors downsizes IBM let's go a hundred thousand over a decade it is small business it's going to save this country economically that's the cutting edge of technological change and if the Republican Party's got any sense they will go for a repeal of Clinton's taxes Federal Way Washington you're next good morning Brian hi Brian I gotta take a little bit with you because you seem to be having too much fun with the imbalance okay that Network I would like you to take off a Robert dole Republican leader and give his real title the same thing with Michaels all right because you give you give the Republican parity right there and when I listened to EIB Network they refer to listen to c-span and it seems like you're not like you were joined in the propaganda machine it may not be super so Bryant that's the way it's coming across let me let me just get two cents in here every single time Bill Clinton says anything anywhere in this country that we can get a camera there we carry it how much more can we carry from bill clamp well your show this morning you know it's laughable I understand I understand you say you're striving for balance I understand striving for balance for a year okay I understand listen let me ask you again if the president every time the president was to say something he can be heard here in its entirety on this network how much more can we do this is a mistake this morning neither one of the gentlemen anything to do with it I apologize to you in the audience that's where we changed the call so we could hear from you all right but you're changing horse in the middle of stream you know last last show I tried to catch you I couldn't get on when you sat there for an hour with the guy from that wrote the book against Anita Hill and you lamb blasted her for 45 minutes under the under the guise of Ginsberg I'm talking about Ginsberg you did it again with Warren hatch well you want to you want to produce on that show but I try to get in on that one all right I see you give parity tiller to the Reaper to minority our leaders right now and it's where Pat Buchanan I can see how he should be a Catholic in a Republican perhaps he should reread the spiritually corporal works of mercy what do you mean by parody by the way well when you when you call Robert dole Republican leader when he's the Senate a Minority Leader all right he doesn't deserve the title when he's a headed I'd say when he's in the Senate and these are those Bob Michaels at any place you see Spanish the only one that does it all right now that rap that when when the people from EIB come here they don't see that they I have the minority view they see the day that they have a equal view and to me that that pop again do you think is no longer reporting let me ask you though but Bill Clinton won the last election how much impact did that have on the election the Democrats have been in power here since 1955 or whatever there's people are saying they're Democrats that aren't all right and you got the boll weevils in the house right now that vote against everything Clinton does I know you're black man I thought the boll weevils mean to me and they don't they don't mean democracy to me I understand Democratic Party I understand what you're saying but I don't understand why it's so the the Republican leaders thing why that upsets you so much because because it's a subliminal suggestion to someone that this view is shared by more than actually is you know it's not the truth okay and I'm glad he knows what the spiritual and corporal works of mercy are most Catholics forgot that long ago he's I bet he's my age you have any comment I do I don't see why you should apologize telling me on got the guest Matt I mean what can we say call her wealthy balance is a ludicrous concept anyway he's gone it's he it would be absurd to expect in any battle of ideas for people to come out in some sense 50/50 the point about but what is as it should be dialectical to coin a phrase and and that this should be argument now what you usually get with balance is you get one moderate Republican versus one moderate Democrat on those shows most of the time and they're all members of the permanent consensus that's what people should be protesting about well I think we make a mistake by using the word balanced but we really want to do here what we try to do is let the audience hear as many different ideas as is possible that's why I keep bringing up the fact that everything Bill Clinton says it's heard here I mean this show here isn't that important the grand scheme of things what's important is that you'd be able to hear every possible idea that comes out of this town and we can physically get on the network I don't have a chance of not knowing what Clinton thinks well I do think Chris represents a left point of view which is very dissatisfied with Clinton almost as much for different reasons as the as the right is I should tell the audience those those folks out there that are upset with us this morning that hendrik hertzberg will be our guest next Monday on this show who is I don't want to put words in his mouth but I think it's fairly obvious that he's a very strong supporter of Bill Clinton he runs to New Yorker magazine let's go to New York City next you're in favor of Bill Clinton we understand all right let's hear it I don't think I am 58 years old I have voted in every election I'm from New York City college educated and sorry Mr Hudson I am an attorney I don't think in all of all I don't think in all the President presidential elections that I have seen of this point in my life and I do remember the Roosevelt he is have I seen a president lambasted in the press the way that I have seen this president we are six months into an election you have made a huge argument out of play a haircut on a runway now you mean to tell me Reagan never did that well Bush never did that and you mean to tell me that if you think that Bill Clinton got hit hard you should have been in Richard Nixon's White House from about 1973 March to 1974 of people talking he did I didn't use the kind of language that he used he did I didn't bring down his presidency he did you can say all the things that the press was against him and we have this literal with liberal media's establishment I'd like to see it we have rush limbaugh we have you now we have brought fire which is you and mr. Sununu I would like to turn on a radio and you're being unfair to Tinsley oh no no no I'm saying Kinsley and I can't think of the NBC guy from Meet the Press Tim Russert in Russia right exactly now please this man is six months into a presidency he has a very very hostile Congress whether or not you can say Democratic Congress Democratic president I'm not sure that the woman I'm not just let me finish for a minute I'm not sure that that's a fair characterization when Senator Nunn doesn't support his president then I'm not sure because he's from Tennessee and if you did if you wouldn't go with a BTU tax because of the oil interest of Senator Boren now I watched no why did President Reagan succeed with a Democratic House and getting his program through in 1981 and President Clinton who's got a Democratic House and Senate come so close to failure I think the answer is two things one Reagan's leadership people believed in him they don't tell you something the reason Ronald Reagan thought his programs through was very simple there were very high interest rates the country wanted all of this military equipment now we first find out 12 years later this SDI stuff is a bit itchy itchy I'd like to know the hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars that that put us into debt with only by certain the Russians gotta let you go grab a call from New York City hold on Christopher Hitchens you're next go ahead please I made a mistake you know Brian actually you could have just fouled up there to Martha's Vineyard to any one of those press people if you wanted somebody on Clinton's side I can't believe this this bellowing that's been going on today a few weeks ago you had kondraki and Stephen Roberts on this show then he says I had Andrew Sullivan Clarence page now come on give me a break so I I can't understand this anyway I don't even care about it but I want to bring up something else and that is Janet Reno I have been increasingly disturbed that Janna Reno is turning into a stage prop for Clinton every time you turn around and he's putting on weather so little shows where he brings out all the white house people in these chairs and he makes some soil announcement everybody's applauding and there's that Gore gazing fondly at his daughter just like Nancy Reagan used to do you know I wondered who he'd get to do that and there he is and leading the applause and everything and there is Janet Reno now I thought well he's just dragging everybody any can in Washington a rule applauded what they had that press conference about Vincent foster this was at the Justice Department she wasn't there who conducted this with that Haman the assistant and two of the most incompetent people after watching the twin towers the FBI guy in New York and the chief of police in New York such professionals such wonderful information they gave out then you have this stupid it was like the original original amateur hour well why she thanks mr. hitch so I don't get my trance on you do on the gondola tax consensus she doesn't like Clinton claim to me yes and I and I hate these press quarters where one looks moistly at the president and so on and I hate I hate everything about the supreme control system in Washington and I loathe the packaging and I think that the woman who ran before actually the same one how dare the press go on about their Force One holding up the traffic and so on what did we get out of there we got David Kagan as if you don't mind my saying so the figure face to watch is a face it seems to me of Lloyd Bentsen I mean when when Clinton picked him to run the treasurer you knew at once what sort of regime this was going to be and if you want to look back at the calamitous budget of 81 the one which David Gergen going excuse me and David Stockman sold and David Stockman who designed it admitted was a fraud was was a political use of insolvency to try and destroy the Democratic Party and try and trap the Democratic Party in a spending box that was only possible in the Senate because of people like Lloyd Bentsen the Democrats got that budget through for Reagan and it was the Democrats who did the savings and then scandal it was the Democrats who the district committee who made trans Thomas a charge and it was all of these things so you still get people ringing up saying that the press is partisan against the Republicans or Democrats do people still believe that there is a healthy two-party competition we've got to move to the next coal but I want to ask you what time today can people continue to listen to this all day show will be on from 12:00 to 3:00 on mutual broadcast in Westwood 122 stations I'm not sure which one and any particular 12:00 to 3:00 this afternoon East Coast time Memphis Tennessee go ahead please yes sir I'm calling because I have a problem with the perception that Ronald Reagan and George Bush word the president so the military branch of of American service country President Bush during iran-contra and also the Iraq aid incident and my problem is that while we were overseas serving supposedly serving and defending the country they were selling arms to I was in Beirut Lebanon when the Marine Corps and Navy personnel were annihilated by a bomb under the Reagan administration and I support Bill Clinton for the point that I just want to departure from the rhetoric where we say there were national defense and we're for the service members and such like that and behind closed doors we sell arms to thanks he's exactly right was regard to the sale of weapons to the ayatollahs Iran it was utterly foolish to think we were dealing with moderates it was a contradiction of what we'd been saying publicly we were doing it was wrong and it was always said that the sale of the weapons to the Ayatollah was wrong in a horrible mistake what I do think is once we got the money from I'm sending the money to the Contras I make a speech in Lafayette Square in defense of Oliver North saying if North was clever enough to figure out how to take the ayatollahs money and give it to the Contras to kill Nicaraguans that was fine by you it wasn't in Lafayette Park he was down in Miami and I said if he did rip off the Ayatollah and sent the money to the Contras I'm glad that's where the money went but as for the sale of weapons to the Ayatollah the Kolar is exactly right Palm Beach Florida go ahead please hello Palm Beach hello Palm Beach are you there where are you calling from please Kansas City Missouri Kansas City you're on the air hello okay well I'd like to say is that when you start talking about conservatives and liberals and all that and why people like Clinton and why people don't like quinton you're not even talking about a representative portion of this country you're talking about people that voted which probably make about 25% of the people when people say they don't like Clinton sometimes they're saying they don't like they don't think he's doing enough they don't mean that they're conservatives that means they're going more liberal also when Clinton came out and started telling my people needed jobs the media jumped on him real quick talked about we needed reduce taxes forget all that one month later they turned out and said they were saying everything was already first then a month later nonsense there weren't any jobs what's going on to me it sounds like whenever they start talking about people that are working they forget it when they start talking about people with money then it becomes a problem all right we're gonna let that stand we're behind on costs I'm gonna grab Joliet Illinois I go ahead please hi I'm scared to death hang in there with me don't be we're all getting beat up Robert Novak's hometown I believe excuse me that's why we know that it's hometown isn't it all right I didn't know that I made it Chicago and I'm just looking out here because that's where we worked anyway there's two points in Reader's Digest this month there was a statement it was an excerpt from a Washington Post article and it says basically Clinton line let's get that one on the table and dismiss it the second thing is I'm a lifelong conservative Republican I had lunch the other day with a lifelong conservative Republican lawyer he's voted for Clinton I voted for Pirlo I am now working actively for a black liberal Democrat we just the good guys from the bad guys we've got to get rid of the labels there are no more conservative liberals Republicans or Democrats there are law-abiding people and people who don't obey the law there are people who are willing to work and people who aren't and when the politicians get that point all right back to Omaha Nebraska [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] you know call her the reason Russia's got an audience is because a lot of people believe what he says and they agree what he says now Bill Clinton did say I will never raise taxes on the middle class to pay for my programs that tax on gasoline is directly on the middle and working class and the tax on Social Security recipients above $32,000 is directly on the middle class also Bill Clinton didn't tell the truth George Bush said listen we've figured out your program and it means you're gonna have to tax folks all the way down to $36,000 to get something and they all said that was a big lied it turns out it was the exact truth Marietta Georgia you're next yes good morning Brack I am Pro Bill Clinton I do agree with some of your points with NAFTA I disagree with some of your social positions but uh we have a working president I think you have to admit that that's right and I think that's one of the better things on c-span is after say the for Surrey summit or is economic summit the open mic at the end of the program the hurdies people talk about the president and how he's trying and you know they've never heard somebody's this articulate before as far as these small business people call it and you know with their restaurants or dry cleaners and they're talking about they're not going to hire people with this new tax plan their minimum wage jobs pad we don't want those jobs we need good jobs in this country but you know how can they create jobs if you take away their profits in taxes of small business my friend let me ask mr. Hitchens to jump in here on this she'd been very patient I thought the lady before was was very good about the the limbo factor but I thought her energy and passion were wasted on Clinton I thought it was um the he he doesn't deserve the support of someone who's in the can primaries I would have been very strongly in favor of Jerry Brown yeah how about I asked you earlier about the liberal talk shows are there any I think there's a lot of liberal populist talk shows yeah I think there are some around sure you can you name you know with me on are see he's up in up in Boston there a number of them in Boston it's really I think Jerry was proper oh because we carried his show here on the day of the election when they read these very Pro McGovern very Pro McGovern 1972 it's very simple there is no one no one has a regular spot on a major TV show or a measure off their page who has politics that are to the left of say water Mondale people with people with left positions like my own my own you just do not have a regular slot on America you know pitching about it was after all mr. Buchanan's very sweetly asked me on his radio show today yes I myself am on occasionally but and I didn't want to seem whining about it but the fact is the the left position you know you got a California Michael Jackson it's very balanced in California but I'll tell you this Christmas is for conservatives see this is our men of the right see this is our way around the op-ed pages of the portion post for example it goes from maybe doesn't go to your left but it doesn't go beyond Charles Krauthammer and the neoconservatives either on the right side nor does the New York Times and these radio shows are the way the Conservatives make an end run around the big establishment media in this country and this is a free market on the these radio shows how many shows do National Review contributors have now on public broadcasting seems like three or four to me Charles Krauthammer is the person it's quite hard to flank on the right it used to be the mayor greenfield would also have on that page William Buckley and a natural but there are some times now they've know the guy Washington Sanders true but there's no there's no liberal replacement st. Louis Coleman the pricey st. Louis thank you for waiting because those system took away their personal freedoms in the name of the big brother government your system guess where they come for their open-heart surgery and that sort of stuff they come down here that's been disproved to many many times away in the case of those who take I mean I'll have to refer you there's a very good study of this you're coming out of the Jessica Mitford is writing in California comparing this Canadian question I mean the the Canadian system is not not ideal but it's a huge improvement on the shambolic chaotic shameful system that we have here with local turn of any coverage at all last call Tampa Florida yes of you and your program this morning I I find that and I've been watching you for several years and I I tuned you in every chance I get I think you run a fair program and I just want to say that I'm a retired businessman and I must say that when Ronald Reagan came in in the eighties I had three laundromats that there were said I was running and the tax rate that I was paying I it was I couldn't believe it how much money they had cut my tax and my problem with it was that at the time I knew the government was running a deficit and I thought to myself this is stupid because there's a businessman I you know I have to watch my death you know and for the next 3-4 years you know I made a fantastic amount of money out of my learning math and but in the meantime the debt is rising and rising and rising and I was worried about it constantly about our national debt the only thing that I really liked about Clinton is that he has focused in on the problem the Republicans somewhere another don't care about the national debt you guys have never talked about it over the years except for a few people here and there would talk about it but nobody has ever talked about the national debt until Clinton come along and now Perot alright thanks sir well look the look the Democratic Party has controlled the House of Representatives which has the power of the purse as you pointed out ever since nineteen fifty one fifty six and and they have collaborated in every single spending scheme if there's one criticism that's valid of the Reagan administration throughout it is we did not use the veto power consistently and regularly to cut back to spending Ronald Reagan wanted to cut back too many deals you should you should get that book the education of David Stockman and some William Greider wrote some connection of really interviews with the Stockman giving away the secrets of what them the poverty and deficit trap really consists of Christopher Hitchens has an article in this month's Vanity Fair Michelle Pfeiffer on the cover and he also has a new book out published by versatile published were they from its the imprint of new left books and London originated it's distributed here by route rich and you can hear both of our guest today mr. Buchanan and mr. Hitchens on the mutual Broadcasting System around the country about twelve noon today East Coast time is mr. Hitchens to be with you all week I know he's here today and we'd like to have him having one representing a left point of view just as you have here today there's a little item in the US News this week that says that Nancy Reagan tried very hard to get a hold of the White House and the president during the budget thing to register her opposition and that she couldn't get through it's too busy she couldn't actually tried to register opposition to the tax bill to the to the budget bill it's right here in the US News astonish that she could not get through and it says that she called the regular numbers he said later on however lines were or jammed and then she called Bob Michel and expressed her concern that gergan working on that right away yes I mean she obviously was some consulting the wrong astrologer I would have predicted that she could get through I'm saying it was just wish didn't ask me Christopher Hitchens is a native of Portsmouth and Hampshire let me call the division in the country of County County County Hampshire and England Patrick Buchanan who's a native of Washington DC our guest thank you all very much in to our audience thanks for your patience and have a good week

Channel: CaNANDian

Views: 127,664

Rating: 4.8631349 out of 5

Keywords: Christopher, Hitchens, and, Pat, Buchanan, On, C-SPAN, program, 'Events, in, the, News', Brian, Lamb, Bill, Clinton, Bosnia

Id: JCS6ZLFvVeo

Length: 88min 12sec (5292 seconds)

Published: Mon Sep 24 2012