Christo Wiese on Shapeshifter with Bruce Whitfield

shapeshifters this is the money show is brought to you by albuterol do great things as you come here as you can hear we are doing an outside broadcast this evening with the inner city ideas cartel that's owned by nvd property it's a fabulous venue in downtown Cape Town and we decided to go on a road trip okay about one kilometer from our Cape Town studios but still it's a road trip nevertheless because we've been righted Christo visa it's the second time this year that we've invited Cristo visa join us and the other time we invited him he cancelled at very short notice but then he was a man on a secret mission James Bond style to save South Africa from a ratings downgrade he was part of the team asked by private Gordon to go to London to try to convince the ratings agencies to please hold off on the downgrade I think he succeeded he's described as a bit Sam Walton a bit Warren Buffett but he is 100% Christo visa and he's with us this evening do you know within the closest billion just how wealthy you are you know people make the common mistake that they always look at only one side of the balance sheet I see the essence yes they don't see the liabilities I once had to address the Cape to unplaced up and somebody made the mistake of referring to my status as a billionaire I said you know you guys obviously don't know how to read a balance they they weren't very happy with a comment and then I say to them but you are in very good company there's neither dust my wife is that a good thing or does she just look at the asset side of things well I mean like most people certainly newspaper people she probably only looks at the one time great Chris Bishop the editor of Forbes Africa once got shouted at by Alico done whatever under estimating Ali code unquote as well he's regarded as Africa's wealthiest man they say that you're the third wealthiest person on the African continent are they right or are they wrong I have no idea because I would like to quote to them what a chap mantis hunt I think yes his name they tried to corner they were a very wealthy family and they tried to corner the solar market and came unstuck and lost billions he was then called to appear before a congressional committee and the chairman said to mr. hunt tell me how much are you worth and Buckland said I don't know he said but you know if you don't answer the question I can hold you in contempt of Congress how much are you worth is it mr. chairman I don't know because my experience has been that generally people who know how much they worth are not worth a hell of a lot when were you born into a commercial family yeah you know typical small town business family happy on uppington yeah and and what kind of business were your parents involved my dad owned a garage and he was also a Kalahari farmer which was quite typical of uppington in those days and mum my mum ran her own business later on she had a florist shop and a bridal shop okay a bit in the center of uppington social life there absolutely no you grow up in Abington do you got schooling up it I went to school until what we then called standard 8 yet I called great in and for my final two years of schooling I went to Paul boy's eye and there's that way you got Stellenbosch University in your blood because you went there to study law now I've interesting I I come from what used to be called a blue top family and my dad held a very strong view that good United Party kids who went to stellenbosch became nets and you wouldn't have that so for my first year at university I went to Cape Town University okay and then what what led to the change well my less than illustrious academic record made me return to uh pendan with the firm conviction that I was not cut out for academic I wanted to be a businessman so my dad said well that fair choice and he went and bought a business a radiator repair business now radiators were repaired probably they still are with carbide which is a very odd thing yes and my dad bought a little building in Upington which I swear to you was the only building in Upington where the Sun was shining 24 hours a day plus the heat of the car buyer that kind of made me think that maybe studying is not such a bad idea so you dropped out of UCD what were you studying at UC - I always thought I was studying in law ok but it turned out that in those days when you registered you win from their tables art and you went and registered for the subjects that you were contemplating doing it turned out somewhere half way through the year that I've ever registered for law ah but I went to certain classes particularly where they were good-looking girls I would but that didn't improve the academic you know so we went back to helping too but then returned to San Abbas where you do to graduate with the Lord of revenge idea but you didn't practice law immediately you went back to uppington there's there's quite a lot of chewing and throwing into a cousin's business now this cousin had an idea and it was a tiny little business I think 10 outlets call pep yeah by the time you know I got involved in business there were in fact only five outlets okay and the idea that the cousin a cousin by marriage had was that he was very aware of the fact that people on low budgets with very little disposable income had great difficulty dressing themselves and their children properly clothes were just too expensive and he thought there must be a way of providing clothes for people like that cheaper and that that was basically the idea and I often tell people that those of us who are fortunate enough to have grown up without hand-me-downs or you know second-hand clothes or clothes that have been AL up quite a bit have no idea what it does for the dignity of a person if he is properly dressed may not be fancy clothes but clean and proper clothes and that was his idea which was you know obviously a brilliant entrepreneurial idea but you didn't like playing second fiddle to him did you no I was very happy we by the time I left the business after seven years it had been listed on the stock exchange and therefore it kind of lost some of its magic as a family company was now a public company and I looked at the situation and I had three reasons why I wanted to make a change the first one was as I say the company had kind of changed its character that second reason was that the need the founder was the number one guy and although my family VIN already or I already then was the largest shareholder I would not have had it any other way he was a better number one than I would have been but I also knew that I was not really cut out to be a number two men and the third one was I wanted to get married so I thought I needed a more stable life that's what I would going practice law at the K bar and and go home you know 30 times or 30 nights of the month and not in the way I used it so those were the reason how long did you practice more for from 1974 until 1980 but in that time politics got into your blood you say you're part of a blue top family you actually were ran for you went you won't want to become parliamentary candidate how far did you get down that line in 1977 well it let me give you that little background there my wife's a late father that was a very well-known politician who and so when I married her she said to me look I've been watching you I mean for a number of years that it took me to convince her ready and she said you're obviously a guy who gets involved in many things and I'm quite happy with that but two things you may never do the one is you may never go into politics and number two is you may never make movies now the politics I understood the movies I didn't understand but eventually I did get into funding a movie made by a friend of mine and then I knew that invariably the producer and the actresses get together so oh all the directors director producer well I was young it I certainly didn't make it with the actresses but and but then the United Party ceased to exist in 1974 and there was a split and force there was then the prime minister when the opposition was in total disarray called the snap election and they were the PFP where my father-in-law it was a leading figure with this that was then called that was called the PFP does the PAP n New Republic party it was the PFP the New Republic party in the SAPD South Africa party so some of the blood supper went to the ASAP and that's the guy that I stood against John Wiley he joined that grouping I joined my father-in-law's grouping and then there was the Nutella crowd they were the inert being so I stood as a PFP candidate fontelle slobbered phone be I was in London he said look we're looking for candidates would you consider being a candidate in Stellenbosch said well I'll think about it I called my wife and I told her and she immediately said that's fine because she knew as a rock as a Broadway was never childhood when it's gotten lost so I ended up standing in Simon's down against John Wiley we refer to me as that Prague from C Point and I say to him John I'm the bull from up into a minute but any case so politics didn't really work out then in 9:20 go back to pepper I went back at the beginning of 1981 in charge is number one yeah I bought out the founders shares which made me the controlling shareholder and I became the chairman of the company at what point do you and white abyss on tire because you see an opportunity in this period top right the shop is an existing business when you buy in there as well yeah well whitey Besson and I were friends at University his dad was also a blue top member of parliament called Jack Bassam okay and I might tell him funny store buy drive to tell a funny story not the time for funny stories years ago whitey Busan and a very large bonus it's like 15 or 20 years ago and he's bonus he earned a large bonus every year he does okay and he deserves it but so he got this enormous bonus and everybody went crazy about this so I started noticing that when we were at dinner party people would ask me crystal how are you and YT related so obviously I knew what they were getting at but then I had an interview and I didn't quite know how to deal with it because how do you you know expunge this perception but then I had an interview with a chap from well-known business publication and he about executive pay and I knew where he was going to get to so in the end he got to this he said mr. visa are you and mr. boo song related I said we're not related we're very close friends but we not related at all he said but you married to his sister aren't you I said no not as far as I know but and he said yeah but your wife's maiden name was also Busan wasn't it I said yes it was but my wife stems from the beautiful but what if you know I've before her but I thought the soundbite would now make people realize that although I married a bassam now we're not related as they wanted to lead nepotism into said it no no wait but it has been an extraordinary close business relationship and and you guys have worked together for decades to your mutual benefit yeah yeah and hopefully the benefit of many other people boost replied today employs one hundred and thirty six thousand people it's a company that we bought in 1979 for an it 1 million rand it now has a market capitalization of almost a hundred billion there and it doesn't all belong to me you've got fifteen percent of it yeah okay so we got that part of the equation sorted out right um you've never been obsessed though with control I mean the Ackerman's for example that they can pay of being obsessed with control through Pickwick than doing that structure at the moment you've not been obsessed with control you we've been happy to let the business grow and bring out our shareholders hello my obsession of control is just a little more hidden ooh because I do not by and large get involved in businesses that I do not control so explain then well in the case of shop right hmm you pointed out that I own I own a little bit more than 15% of the equity 18:20 are 18 to 19 okay but I vote for t3 ah but it is at the end it's crucial is it not yeah absolutely crucial not because of ego or anything else I have a very firm belief that businesses do best when the people who take the decisions have real skin in the game number one number two it gives comfort to talented management like whitey Besson I cannot see somebody like whitey Besson working for a faceless bunch of shareholders he knows that if he has a problem is a person he can come to he can come to get a quick decision it's a different world when you have a controlling share of but how much longer can you be that controlling shoulder you watch 74 for this year yeah whitey is 69 Oh whitey turned 70 70 this young I mean you're the dream team that has grown in this business how long do you both continue for well whitey suffers from an ailment that I think I also suffer from to an extend and that is that we will live a belief that we will live forever that's part of the reason you know it's a personality thing but both he and I realized that our shelf life is getting smaller but there is a huge difference whitey runs a business which requires enormous energy I don't run businesses you know I sit in an office called the Chairman's office and if you ask whitey I'll tell you this little story a mutual friend of ours came to me one day he said you know Whitey's son worked for me for a while and one day I called him in and I said tell me does your dad whitey does he ever discuss business with you and he says yalom he's a very nice of the console that's a yahoo me does is it now what does your dad teach you about business it is well well my dad said you must just watch whom Kristen he has never worked a day in his life and he hasn't done too bad but the portion nostra these are the people of Stellenbosch this mafia seminars mafia and they are you attacked crowd in selling bottles I get the sense you like to compete against one another you like to take deals away from one another it's quite a feisty set of friendships yeah well I mean first of all I'm not off stellenbosch I live in Clifton so I'm not really a aren't you part of their clique well Marcus Lester yeah well because we all studied it still and most probably that's why people call call people are still in moss mafia the thing about Stellenbosch is it is and always has been an extremely clicky town you know they were the academics the professor's and the doctors and they were kind of like a little group apart and then there were the their immigrant people you know they ruled the roost there were as far as business is concerned and then they with the rich wine farmers they don't exist anymore today a rich wife Alice there are lots of wine farmers are not reach I'm one of them and so so in the UT you had these different groupings so it's a very difficult town to define as a single community yeah so yeah I suppose you know I am friendly with the guys like Gd tell me about a bet you once took with GT Ferrara well interesting story GT in those days particularly there was a very careful guy and I wanted to do a certain deal but I needed to buy a block of stock that they owned first RMB RR and beading and it this was in 1996 just to give context right and the purchase consideration was 1.4 billion rand and i invited GT for lunch and I said GT I want to buy this block of stock of yours but before we go any further just though I don't have the money but if I buy it from you I will get the money and I will pay you and he said now I'm quite happy to do to sell you the block but what is your plan I said well this is my plan he said you'll never make that plan work it'll never work said well I'm convinced it will work so can we take a bit on it yeah what should we bid a bottle of wine yep I said yeah but here is my condition the loser can and must buy the bottle of wine from my wine cellar at Landsberg GT said but what is your price what do you sell the one that I said well in those days 60 ran the bottle but the loser gets it at cost price we should know that's fair enough so we shook hands on the deal and on the bed and then I won the bid because you want the bet Senor your deal worked out I a dealer word and I paid him his money good and he gave me the shares and then it came to settle the bet and now he took out his wallets no we were at a dinner actually and he's before we went to this formal dinner he said well you know how much do I owe you I said well my accountants can send you the invoice but the cost price of every bottle of wine in my cellar at Landry is ten thousand six hundred and forty-three then how do you get to that I said I bought the farm a bullet to sell it and I've bottled so many bottles of wine so I just made the sum any case so at this formal dinner he told the story and then he said you know I was fairly and squarely taken I'm now handing the cheque to presto in front of all of you guys he gave me an envelope I walked back to the debt to the table tore open the envelope there was a little note he said Cristo here is the money for the bottle of wine but in order to save you bank charges you will notice that I made it payable to your wife my wife just you know been gave it to some charity so that's the story but the cost price of a bottle one have you do you make money out of wine or you just do it for fun because of course Laurence foot is your father that's your property yeah you bottle sparkling wine you bought a range of wines but your sir run markets there and let up officers and sorts of things would suggest that the the wine business remain stuff it was very tough I mean I certainly there are people who do make money out of wine I'm not one of them because you know they've been so many changes in the wine market but there are people who make money and I think we are now beginning to lose less money on our wine business at Lansford which is a which is progress good progress is always good random in the front row you've got a question for for Christo visa this evening hello I'm with the technological advancements like Amazon delivering things with drones and Google's self-driving car where do you see retail in 10 years or 15 years in there to long term well retail like most industries you know but retail perhaps more so than most any business that is constantly in evolution things change I mean you know from the time I grew up the way we ran shops and the way we done them today I mean it's the east to the west this whole thing about e-commerce and Amazon and so will the jury is still very much out on where it will end you know people quote these fantastic growth rates etcetera etcetera and every clever retailer today sees himself as a multi-channel operator it's no more only the store you have click and Collect you have you know internet buying you have we sell a lot of stuff out of our new loop chain in the UK through Amazon and some of these others I mean they get the product from us so but I personally my children accuse me of being old-fashioned because I also have a healthy skepticism about climate change so they say I just don't understand these things but I have a healthy skepticism as to whether this all these modern methods and driverless cars and what will put the old traditional shops out of business but there are a lot of changes happening and very difficult to forecast but I certainly don't lose sleep over it as I said inter alia because we know that we have to be multi-channel I once asked why to pass on whether or not he was on Twitter he says no but I employ somebody who does that stuff through services built South African businesses over the last four decades with enormous success um you've survived the Rubicon speech you've survived the uncertainty in the run-up to democracy you've survived 9/11 9:12 crisis after crisis after crisis and many South Africans get very unsettled at times of political uncertainty of social uncertainty you seem to look through crisis Duty crises bother you know they don't really bother me these perceived crises because you know I often tell people when they get a bit despondent about South Africa that I've now lived long enough to have seen these perceived crises I'm in 1948 when the Nets came to power a lot of people lift up after again because they thought these guys can't run a modern industrial economy then in 1960 with sharper people fled I mean they they gave their properties away Rembrandt the Rupert's bought Fleur Duke up for a song I mean most beautiful own and then came 1976 with the Soweto riots again I was a beneficiary of that because I bought a business from somebody who had given up on South Africa and I bought it at a bargain price and then the Rubicon speech and then the declared speech and then the run-up to the 94 election when people were hoarding bully beef and candles so we've seen all that and what gives you the courage to look through what other people see as huge obstacles I suppose you know it's just growing up in a place like uppington inter alia growing up in a tough part of the world and growing up in a home where one had very strong values installed and I often quote my my late mother she died four years ago she always told me crystal you worry about those things that you can do something about and then you do something and the rest you can't break your header you can't make the whole world good just do what in Afrikaans we say but you aren't phantom to do do what your head it's a kind of a way of doing the other thing Bruce I've never been able to understand what the benefit is of being negative or being pessimistic how does that help you or anybody else to focus on the negative rather than the positive the last time we asked you to come here you canceled because Pravin Gordhan gave you a call and said please come and help we're facing the potential downgrade yeah you responded immediately you talked to us yeah sake of the country we understand yeah when you look at the situation we find ourselves in right now yeah with some severe political issues how do you look through what we going through right now first of all I look at history and I look at the crises that South Africa come through you know you think back to a little more than 100 years ago after the anglo-boer war scorched I mean there were the Afrikaner people that lost everything that they'd fought for that they'd built up over 200 years how must the world have look to them and look what happened and so we can go through the Great Depression and the droughts and the political uncertainty and what have you and we got through all that so why won't we get through this one it might be a tougher in a certain sense but at the end of the day I have a very simple belief that East Lee teachers are something there and secondly South Africans are essentially good people and thirdly the world wants us to succeed that was my impression on this road show we saw 250 investors plus the ratings I did and the general feeling was that people want South Africa to succeed they made it very clear from the ratings agencies and from investors that the prerequisites for them to hold us in good favor are political stability that's why what's happening at the moment is a little bit unsettling but again it's not the end of the world and if you look at other parts of the world I personally am a little bit more than disappointed that this lady toccata diese that they've now indicated to be the ANC candidate is one of the 80 ANC caters with a very good track record she was a good minister yeah she's a decent person she is a principled person she immediately designed when Thabo Mbeki was recalled yeah so she's got that kind of background not it's hugely disappointing then when such a person is a candidate there's this kind of reaction but to come back to my point political stability fiscal consolidation and policy certainty if we get those things right and a lot of them we could get right very quickly I mean policy uncertainty is something that the politicians can cure very quickly you know this whole debate about once about always in power yeah APR 10 2015 3 in December as well John Carney the actor and you roughly the same age he was on the radio on Monday telling us his perspectives about money he said the thing that motivates him is he's frightened of being 80 and poor now yeah even though you've got a lot of debt and you're not shy of debt I don't think that that's what motivates you what keeps Christo visa age 74 never worked a day in his life yeah going well first of all what else would I do blues I mean it's a simple I enjoy what I'm doing I enjoy working with people in many instances a lot younger than I am I still have a feeling that it may be small but I make a contribution and and as I say at the end of the day I can honestly say I love what I'm doing ladies and gentlemen please will he give a very warm round of applause to Chris Davis's been very generous with my decision when his past for 21 some interesting wines and also just some real optimism about the future of South Africa when many of us get really gloomy about the state of affairs in South Africa because Lovisa explains how he sees through a lot of the noise that we face on a regular basis I have blown it Franklin I am so sorry I think I've missed it a quick question from Franklin quick question before we let him go Dan's cursor with your accumulated wealth would you envision existing businesses or would you sort something from scratch i I think I can honestly say I do both you know yeah that that's the honest answer we we invest and we also do start in some of these companies grassroots operations but you could you build the shop ripe EPCOR sign of empire from scratch today Brian Joffe he told me he couldn't build their best but best from scratch today could you yeah but Brian Brian built a different you must there are huge differences I mean the PIP group started as one small shop in Abington and grew shop by shop by shop for 30 years or so before it started well not quite to visit board shop right in 1979 14 years after starting but it was there was one central business that you built brick by brick store by store then you start expanding doing bigger deals like ultimately the big deal with Stein of yeah but that's a 50-year story I think you can still today in South Africa and there are many people out there starting businesses with one single store and building it I see them you can't be an overnight success it just takes 50 years that's the problem ladies and gentlemen Crysta visa money show shapeshifters

Channel: CapeTalk

Views: 36,001

Rating: 4.7253218 out of 5

Keywords: Christo Wiese, Bruce whitfield, Shapeshifter, The Money Show, 702, CapeTalk

Id: Ty3mmJSi47M

Length: 34min 51sec (2091 seconds)

Published: Fri Jun 24 2016