Power FM's Chairmans' interview | Part 2

the internet on YouTube as well as watching on ELCA before we took the break I just briefly wanted to touch on the the the power of identity and culture in driving and maybe to a certain extent to what extent does culture and identity drive business and/or politics and you'll just touched on you know African people say I can do that to people and celebratory corner of the Father loves today Parliament adopted the Commission on land explains respect to Africa that that wins we've we are we without composition I saw after forum clearly somewhere here without compensation we'll come back to that let's not read about African and nationalism what we talked about after telling us these are the other corner I'm proud of it I've even become a blue bull supporter okay which Bacchus Berta my wife's always been a global supporter of being at Pretoria University I was a province supporter that took a lot for me it's like I'm a buck supporter I mean our let her - cause I really you know it was a football team is quite interesting I'm excuse me yeah well I was just still doctor cause are the funny thing I get back to Joburg first time in my life and I've got a nice little Golf GTI and I've got a driver Jaffa Jaffa used to play for land a pirate so I'm sitting in the front we're driving through town and people are waving and I say - just I I didn't know people you would know me he said no no no no they're not waving at you they're waving at me so I became and I used to go to Pelican remember what some of the people here will know but to get back to we also felt oppressed and we still feel in danger in digital yes my granny yes and we stopped with Steve beacon our imagine kuzia she's probably the only person who can vouch with a family when I met the light steve biko after many many hours of discussions we kept the conclusion that we'll never have peace in this country if Afrikaner nationalism and black nationalism cannot come to a compromise now you know it was in 73 74 we study in 2019 mmm we'd better find that compromise and when you go to land I would rather move it to property Lance every moto facial and when I grew up we are taught 87 13 percents actually not true it's zero black people not allowed to own any land anywhere business so-called white areas people are not allowed to own land there were some things called black spots that I still don't know what they were but in the so called homelands it was the Chiefs and the King the kings and it was tribal and now up to bat 1870 1880 didn't really matter we lived in the world your standard of living was the same virtually the same didn't happen with you and be honest iris or London or in Paris or Karachi in certain societies made certain choices as to how to govern themselves and others chose another way and societies that had moved from nomadic to agrarian ja ja I now watch the clock let's get this his wave gets to land yeah and that had land titles and that had an independent judiciary and they started developing foster and people who stuck to communal land and no rule of law the land could be taken away started developing slower so and it's got nothing to do with black or white or pink or purple or genetics East Germany after the war and North Korea and South Korea if you go there like I had to the one perished these Germany you don't get up in the middle of the night for the states cows the state's cow is sick it dies if your cow remember now so the land issue is very emotional and it's emotional for blacks and for whites sorry the black people and the white people it snowflake generation again now we'll talk about that let's let's get but it's obvious that there has to be a redress but it was to property I grew up when the center of Stellenbosch was owned by the colored people just got taken away now when you think the most valuable and lives cities towns the type the center of town and ring estrade people just got moved so I'm gonna phosphorous your attitude view on expropriation with our conversation in America they've got a thing called eminent domain we if it's in the absolute public good land can be expropriated it's how it's done because the last ten years has not really been good in terms of state interference if you look at the fiasco we've had in a nutshell I what is the view on lenders profession without composition I don't think we'll ever have peace unless there is a proper redistribution I wouldn't say land I would say property you didn't need that property and that we grow the economy at such a right which is we're gonna have to grab 5% plus before we go we talk about economy so am i hearing to say property from a wealth creation and growth and sustainable point of view has got the address in and recognizing the emotive nature of land and as you understand the distinction between led overall from any motive point of the historical significance restoration of people's dignity perspective and what you can do with property so well why do you think I started business partners in 79 right to give people leases and why now I'm helping the free market foundation to give people title deeds right there is a property aspect of sorry which is separate from the land people have been living in these homes for decades on his lady 102 years old that they both these places on tight pieces of land on land that they didn't have the title deeds to hmm now they've got something they can give their children and grandchildren and it's not the question of doing it it's how it's done right because I owe you the committee sorry I've seen I've seen poo malanga in the owner bear son lien is a tribe and the chief of the tribe sells memberships to the tribe hmm people pay me ten thousand I joined close the kamati quarter then when the land is transferred they sell the water rights in their garden by twin cats and it collapses we bought the second kind factory there 20 years ago in there maybe even longer and Matthews pours I was the premier he asked me how we the biggest employer there and he asked me what can he do to encourage us to invest and create more jobs we did this study and we found out we could build a second kind in factory but we needed water say he went to negotiate it with the Swaziland they're both dams we both the second sugar mow but we said we need to empower the local people so we got black people and well took a huge piece of land cut it up and gave title deeds to the people and gave the support services and again I'm sorry as a man you're going to be surprised but I went back five years later because I'd heard that one of the farmers was producing ice sucrose per hectare and the highest tonne per hectare better than we were at ESB so I got it and this person was a lady yes now that's true empowerment I created now I want to lock this you are not opposed to land expropriation without composition your question is how it's done writers is that is that a fair reflection or oh geez how do you recommend it should be done I think like the ANC like President ROM opposers explained it now what President of apasa is accelerating it is having disclaimers without causing disturbances to economic stability blah blah blah I mean table do you want to go to live in zoom or Venezuela no no no that's not the option that's blah blah we're not in the world of extremes sorry I'm interested in is because you're not opposed to it what are the key things that you would recommend as a South African on the how part what are the things that we shouldn't do in your view let's not fall into the trap of Zimbabwe and Venezuela which was you know everything looked good on paper but the games played on cross you know all these great cultures who work things out in theory hey you need trained people agriculture food rice the fascist system partner you need to be tough that's what the guys want your fun so not everybody who talks about expropriation necessarily want to be a farmer it doesn't follow that owner of our land translates you funny so then to follow you don't want to take productive forms and give it to people who don't want a phone that will be responsible exactly yes absolutely some of the things that would concern you absolute let's fast forward cuz I'm really worried about time chair what makes businesses work and what make good ideas for in a nutshell well obviously there needs to be an opportunity in the market it's no good trying to do something for which there is no market shop after that obviously strategic planning but all the best strategic plans in the world fall apart if there is not attention to detail and proper execution so it's it's a it's a very you know it's not a 10-minute conversation right but I would say tension to detail execution and yes but also but the paranoia is not bad hmm what do you mean well this entrepreneurs that I've met in my life all have a touch of paranoia not a lot of you Burris they always worry that somebody's gonna eat their breakfast whilst they're sleeping right you know I'm constantly worried and you've got to understand what your competitors are doing and where the markets are going right and you know 10 years ago well let's like the luxury goods business I never realized that will grow that fast hmm so we were lucky but in it's you know if there's a huge wave that you suddenly find yourself on you've still got to stay on the surfboard and and ride the wave so we were fortunate that we went into the right markets I was recently with an Tron in China and it's astonishing what's going on over there so we were correctly positioned in the right places at the right time with the right products that's interesting you say that cuz I mean when he took over when he talked about the Richmond the Rembrandt group overall I think the market cap was about two three billion you take over the Sun today we spoke about the numbers hundreds and hundreds of billions in market cap what makes yeah but that's in ramza yeah the government had something to do with if we took Swiss francs the underground net force Wow now we of course we stir and collapse versus the Swiss franc hey I still dreaming rents for now you know I know but but you've grown this thing you've grown this businesses what is it about you beyond the team that we work with what what do you think makes you you other than the paranoia what how did Harry Khattab in multiple markets where when you slip one of your shops one of your businesses the management is up the board is up your customers are up this is a 24-hour operation how do you stay sane rule 1 in life is to delegate stress [Applause] first people who get it's my wife and children okay right now joking aside it was easier before the internet and emails because nowadays people to send you an email and I pause the problem to you and they got so we have a rule no no remember one thing given whenever anybody comes into your office there's so purpose is to take the monkey off their back and put it on your back and if you let slip your office is filled with monkeys so rule one is if somebody comes in they've got a problem they want to take that monkey and put it on your shoulder take one out of your drawer put it on their shoulder let them leave with two now we have now it's simply we have a few rules rule 1 don't be afraid to make mistakes ok these if you're afraid to make mistakes all the time you're never gonna amount to anything rule 2 if you make a mistake admit to it immediately write to your superior because then you own that problem together if you keep it yourself you're either teen you try and fix it then it's your problem these normally any problem can be resolved if revealed early enough right rule 3 don't make the same mistake twice because then we think you're slightly you know but don't be afraid to make mistakes right and you know you spoke about mister miss among tossing away but I lost though Gaynor and I lost a very dear friend if I might be so bold in President Bush recently who is probably the last gentleman president now seriously was an absolute gentleman president in the United States and global leader and when Dan Quayle joined him the remember President Bush had been under prison Reagan for two terms hmm Dan Quayle asked him what must I do and he said be prepared and be loyal hmm be prepared and be loyal if you come to meetings be prepared right and if you don't know anything sigh so but be prepared and be loyal and I think cultures in companies are very important and when people come to meetings or they have to execute they really had better be prepared I want to move to that so I want to assume that some of these lessons you would have learned from your father some through your own journey I see your son now Anton you've pulled him plants and young teachers now saving on the board of Richmond and a young age let's talk a bit about succession keeping it in the family continuity in a nutshell you know whether it's an opportunity or a burden I don't know our colleagues that our company certainly expect that loyalty goes both ways so a lot of my colleagues have been with me 20 30 years and they trust us as good stewards and that we're not going to co-mingle our personal interests with the company's interests you know the company's the company it belongs the shareholders our own staffs our own we don't go mingle and certainly that respond way I can tell you you know I will constant attack biggest REM growl is really a holding company the response an operating company and holding company my colleagues expect of me to protect them so they can plan five years from cleef and arpel when we bought it didn't make any money who's not at all it took us five to seven years of cleaning up and planning now it is a very very successful company so being having a controlling shareholder means that some rather private equity or whatever it's not going to come break the company up and tear it apart for short-term gains so the advantages you can play platon longer but I've got to be very very careful that I don't make any commitments that he and his generation of gotta live up to right so because you're giving your family name so it's difficult and it's the fuel bit difficult for their generation what are them transformation in the context of our unequal economic landscape that's gonna live from a black perspective what does swishy mean - you know I have a good friends are no Sikh on any one of the five Khomeini brothers known as Street Fighter at four tiers you can imagine yeah any case and I've built they built a heck of a business and son or said to me I didn't want B II I just wanted equal opportunities and firstly obviously everybody must have equal opportunities but due to our landscape in our past it's not gonna happen but I don't think that handouts leave the recipient of the handout with any dignity I believe in and ups in leg ups and helping people start their own businesses you'll be surprised in this woman millions of particularly young black women and young men relate to that that's all they want their own favors they want an enabling environment now they saw every in economy as you know highly concentrated it's almost every industry would have the top three to five then you've got the public set of government people say if you don't have friends in government and you're not a political activist or don't come from a political active family forget about doing government with a state and then you go to the private sector still predominately white dominated you don't have networks you don't have relationships you work hard so you're stuck on the one side you stop on the other side study fully understand is the case study fully understood yeah fully understand how do you break that's a fully understand but as anyone have you ever asked me whenever anybody's asked me we tried our best I mean there is yummy there are lot of people up there colleagues of mine no no let's let's go practical so Jonnie Jonnie girondist CEO of rim grow I've seen Paul Harris on the board of there's quite a few on Greg ASEA can I can you put this to a test because up until tonight a lot of people didn't know what you look like what you sound like so if you said have you asked me have you asked Mike monopoly capitalists and at some time visible guys who operated reporter now we see you how do we how do we ask you what we do well what's the question so how do we get mr. Johan Rupert Jana Durant and a whole lot of other friends how do you get to do business with you how do you get to network with you can you can we do something well shall we do something okay I've offered that and put yourself in my shoes a little right I have a fringe Abu Musa we go back long ago from when Jabba was I mean in private sick them oh by the way Java and I have one thing in common he's chairman of the taxi Association and one of the first tenants of business partners was the taxi Association so also my own army we never questioned those red guys come they've got to go and remember that taxi Association no but well let's take job oh yeah he's suddenly Wasi yeah the roundabout and concise and he did what I did he messed around University a little bit and double stuff so one day live as he gets home and his father takes the car keys and he throws him out of the house that's you can't do that I mean you know give him a break we said nah I told him sorry somebody had given me a break that's when I went to New York social was you become my PA I'll sort you out you're gonna get up early in the morning it's not pouring no taboo now sans nothing when you get up you get up okay and he overstayed it was there much longer than a year now he's happily married job was grandfather he's doing very very well next moment he gets attacked now there is in the public sector how can your son work for white monopoly capitalists okay well it wasn't ten years ago yeah when he was in the private sector so now they attack people because less white because their children because something that happened eight years ago and it seems to me the revival black person as a friend that person is captured and attacked well you can tell Michael Jordan that he is captured because we friends or you tell it's it's bit of time that you guys have enough self-confidence that we interact yeah and that there no not always ulterior motive so now and my point is that a lot of professionals in this room those watching not looking for favors but access metals in business and most of it by the way is not just access to finance rights access to networks it's access to insides of people who run business for a while what drives the economy today your average young black professional does not have access in this economy both in the public sector and the private sector can you do something about it can you and I do something about it can the people in this room with access Beach ideas I just why don't you get a group of young professionals and I'll get a group of business people who we can meet at the courthouse excellent and you know if you want a network at work you bring your friends I bring my friends and we do this thing and my friends are not about fit personal friends so so what you say yeah what you're saying is and I want I like I like public I like commitments like this if we're to put together is Paul 98.7 a group of very hardworking and most of them have started Jean great work they know their story they are highly competitive they are very intelligent if we're to get them together and I said you bring the following people dude let's say on a quarterly basis so bring in 50 20 guys look I never problem as long as people understand that they're no overnight successes dance overnight now the size that I'm talking about I exist you know that right there premieres what is that a lot of jean gardens are very good haha on a serious note I want to commit firstly firstly firstly it was the people from the Eastern Cape that must eat then the people from chi said in that must eat and now it's the shotgun vendors so I'll make sure that in this crowd most of them I hear and also watching you spoke about you don't believe in hands down leg up so let's start so I make up something all right I want commitments we saying yeah and yeah is the meaning to the even the northern kite okay I cannot tell you I've said to you before we honor the wrong errors we only football stars rugby source cricket stores my errors of people and I've said it to you Doctors Without Borders we actually go in to work with Ebola patients and teacher teachers who go to bad areas good teachers who go to bed near areas we under pay them and when I talked about the national core sorry when I'm telling you so I would like a thing about national consensus yeah it's not just creating opportunities that's the easy but right you are have quarterly yeah why don't we talk about how we're gonna fix our educational society did you engage do you engage with government I'm toxic right.you shotguns it might be toxic Sundance well vendors so no vendors just conveyed Morrison's aim down no no these a little wind up with a read somebody might be missing no no on a serious note do you in the last time I engage was under president Baek yeah not not the evidence polity President Zuma well k let's move on and I don't I actually feel sorry phrases uma why I don't hate him yeah I hate what he allowed to happen to the country that I hate okay but I don't I think he was used if you had a day a month to run government what are the three things you do and what are the three things you read in lays in a nutshell we don't know what of time first thing I would do is I would do what President Reagan did and do a fireside chat and take my filler South Africans into my conference and tell him exactly what's going on I have a problem that all of our politicians for the last 10 years have treated the voters like fools folk they're still not fools voters are highly intelligent and we've got to treat the people out there they teachers they they're people all over the country that are looking for leadership and be honest with him and be transparent with him and then identify three or four things that everybody have to agree upon I don't care whether you or the right to the Ghengis caramel lift of March said two people must agree that we've got to grow the economy we've got to create jobs through growing the economy we have to fix our educational system you know what really irritates me given the corruption didn't steal from us in the room no children go to a private school you don't take the train you don't take the taxis you don't go to a government hospital corruption stole from the very plot they are the people who can't get into trains in the western cut they're being burned by the people who sewage everything is falling apart so I'm not the victim of the thievery you use the poor people who are in charge three things you do education consensus less talk I would get the people together which people are these now all the politicians okay if I'm the press yeah firstly I'll say there's no more elections like in China or in Russia that would be the first rule no more elections right okay that's well they would be in politics right decisive but we have won lost jobs yeah one lost jobs if we don't get together and fix this I'll give you the alternatives we the fix our own economy oh and that goes for all the trade unions every single trade union listen everybody has by because when Christine Lagarde arrives trust me she's gonna be far for tougher than any four-year ally of Pravin Gordhan we don't agree the coroners but so so it is people are trying to fix the place you you are a watchmaker you sell watches I respect time in a nutshell what do we do to fix this economy or an hour of time any of you you're in charge remember what are the tangible things so so what are the Lohan Phillips confidence okay how do you form for us how did you that Oh stick to the rules at leopard Creek I didn't deal with the post post-liberation government the municipality we gave their money even though providing our services then I change the law no they tell me I owe them 60 million which national a purse as usually gleefully put out ad through I build a hydroelectric plant on my fault in a deal with the DTI in the middle of the deal that China's the rules so I said I'll carry on so stick to the raft I draw electric plant I could not operate it's been there for three years because I had to bribe somebody somewhere so that water is running into the river and you want me to give you advice stick to the rules number one number two they about 15 things but one create investor confidence to create investor conference three create investor and how did you that by not calling people comrades on TV do you really think an American fund managers gonna say ah I want to go invest with that comrade I understand the struggle context of corn rights that people were comrades in the struggle that I buy but when cabinet ministers start talking to people who weren't in the struggle who bought their struggle uniforms at pit core no nizina we're easy now okay we ever buy them I didn't want us move on so one stitch your story stick to your story so consistency matters yes instill confidence yes tangible example of how instill confidence the economy well we let prison bake it down because he created and I said it to him privately I said I'll say it United fixin Aria for business to invest but you know what I I think we couldn't believe our luck and we should have invested more from the private sector during that period but before foreigners invest I look at us yes they will look at us whether we invest but then you know we need a little bit of love from the government and not being told you what monopoly capitalists it said so president gamma pasa at the investments on it spoke about the need to break what did you call it the barriers of the world ancient business and government right he's already shown his hands are you able to with your influence or relationships also show your part of the hand what is your responsibility when the president said here it was hilarious everybody says the Oppenheimer's and Fireblade blah blah blah then Jack Bauer Ives guess what his whole entourage have the luggage pulled apart by customs everything opened he's not used to that so now how do you treat somebody arrives firstly you treasure people who come and create jobs by college there's gotta be a point where individuals like yourselves call the President and say from my village point these are the gaps let's help reinforce surely as somebody who loved the skull then what happens then is that you listen then he is captured no no forget about that president Baek he wasn't scared problem prison baekje those meetings all the businessman were yaar Bruce all they did is they tried to do business with a strike the white person Sussman nobody told him the truth I did and a few others you Oster ever you asked the people they exchanged powerpoints it was not a dialogue a proper dialogue you need a proper dialogue but for that both parties need to trust the other side's bona fides and this to me is really the tonight right if you don't trust business bona fides as I said Texas that dog won't hunt it won't stop it once thought and it's like both parties distrust each other and and you capable of understanding the responsibility to say where are they call me white monopoly or whatever there's an administration in place now and then there will be other administration but what is my responsibility as a leader in your letter Duncan post this buck down there's a misconception that it's big businesses role to create jobs it's big businesses role to make products and to do services so well that it can compete internationally because the consumers who go into all the supermarkets don't ask I want to buy that thing because it's a nice guy they wanna buy the best product if we do that and we succeed then we can employ people at proper salaries not slave wages then you can pay taxes your colleagues can go and spend then it's a virtuous circle government's called create jobs if governments could create jobs they wouldn't be in unemployment anyway it's small and medium enterprises but in order to do that we need to cut the rate type do you know what those thugs at czars did to the small business environment last year by withholding the vit do you have any idea what happened to the small businesses in this country when 20 odd billion got withheld I mean they should all go to jail for just that cut the red tape help the small business people when I say small business small and medium they create jobs worldwide I wish we had another five hours but we've also challenged powerlessness to submit their questions in the bulk of the stuff that we spoke about tonight automatically would be content that came from them tan is your is an amazing storyteller I couldn't listen to all that so pity that the stuff that you manufacture tells me a different story they watch us so I'm gonna ask I have uncovered also part business and Tybee so-called Danny also power perspective you invited listeners do you have quick questions and hopefully your hand will behave and get to the point I J I've got one of our powerful food here dr. Tandy and I'm sure dr. time do you have a question I've been told you have a question judging by how you've looked at me you probably don't oh do you doctor fee straight to the point thank you very much your hand I'm with my husband tonight and he tells me in 1980 you signed a lease for him to start his business in a white area today things have changed and I want you to just tell us what it is you believe can be done especially in the space of ICT infrastructure or large networks getting access especially to black people low LSM in the townships so that's a parlous not very disappointed a point the first point to Jack do you have another question from in of our listeners yes yes yes yes I've got QL massiela comma Shang from Mamelodi Joe Oh No thank you very much might sound very controversial but I want to say the following the very academic in how you articulate your arguments the first thing is you you speak about the market capitalization which relates to the total assets a company that their trades on a stock exchange then the net worth speaks of your business the assets it has and the monies that you have together with the business now your academic way of responding to questions that the Chairman is raising becomes very uncomfortable one is from your own articulation comes a sweet sound but at the same time there is also a bitter sound it's painful you speak of fair the agricultural sector that for you to be able to participate there you need to be strong I drove from confess today I saw hundreds of our people who are very strong who work in those firms strong in strength physically but the farmers that you are referring to are not strong they can't work in the Sun like our people do they are only strong financially so black farmers or black laborers in those farms are the ones that are supposed to be benefiting moving to the second dimension Allah I'm gonna ask you what is the essence of your comment elated I hear the background which makes the essence is your hand repaired with much respect sincerely things and believes that white privilege is an entitlement if he really thinks that the economy of this country can be changed when we get out I challenge him and yourself that we go to Manila we go to social movie with the net wealth of over six hundred and eighty seven billion he needs to commit to those black industrialists violent townships Drive any donation I thought I made it clear that's not my net worth and and it's not a very academic thing its effect it's it's unfortunately it's not academic its what the total company market Capiz that belongs to the pension funds and it belongs to P I see and I've tried my best and I really quite frankly I don't know about people my people who work with me or happy they've all got homes I look after their kids I give them bursaries and I'm not father Christmas that can look off to the whole country I've been luckier that I thought I would I made more money than I thought I would and that I often think I deserve and my mother taught me to share and I really give away a lot more money then I spend on our family I give away and quite frankly I don't need lessons in in sharing because I know what I do and luckily the people close to me know what I do so do I respond to dr. T is that what they call you I can't believe they're after 40 years I finally see your husband again Gaynor he was a partner of brand Poulos when we started black wave in the salmon in in the cotton Center correct and she you tell me now she's a miracle doctor not sure why construction businesses yeah but she's got a construction business now your good news is you've got ya need around here you've got Peter I see er and I think Jeremy was was going to come so you've got the people from the IT business because as we as a project round out fiber dark fiber and try to get it schools in universities and now we're trying and then Polaris's here a Paul is very generous he is the founder of rain and the rain Paul would also like to get give back a lot correct Paul so that's how you network right so so to power people and I am going to ensure that we commit jr. and his group on his friends and when I do this publicly and transparently I'm committing him to the power leg of something like that right so we will openly and publicly say particularly black women and men who have started something have taken it to a certain stage and when I take it to another level this is a commitment we're making you may head right well I'm never sure with given okay so so Jane grn ah right right and our friends and quartermaster let me finish I've let you get on with your food for the whole night we'll come up with a program and call it a power leg up where we identify these hard-working people who have built something up to a certain age that meets the leg up whereas through access on access to markets or access to capital or access to whatever this is a commitment we're making tonight we were literally choice another corner I would like to say I'm non-racial I'll do it for Indians for Cape coloreds for majority black will do two reflects Rico South Africa well will represent the demographic or sort of you want enough freedom owners money no no okay LaRocco more whole ayatö move uh Lula favorite colors from Jimmy's a lot what you look like I love your voice on the radio my understanding is that the rim chemical group and the Ridgemont rate within themselves before they can obtain resources from the third party right so my question to you all my pitch was can you teach has that as black people to adapt that methodology that you use to trade within ourselves and also to actually trade with an African brothers because now in actually getting handouts from China and different countries and you not literally gave me anything from that so I want you I challenge you to actually treat teach us that methodology to trade within ourselves as black people and as African people that's before J response one of the things like me was actually understand the question yeah you do not I'm saying I wanna I wanna let up what all things you was ask me the very uncomfortable question was but given how is it that you've allowed in black townships and a lot of rural areas the most particular Africans companies that have made a lot of money post 94 and making money of black people where the black businesspeople she's asking related to that there's a lot of vertical interval in integration within your businesses from the moment you child that she can process it until it gets to Nando's and we eating all of that stuff essentially any tips and the thoughts you Elijah in relation to that are you talking vertical integration one of the profits and trading and doing business amongst ourselves that's part of what she's referred to I don't understand trading and doing business amongst ourselves like you know you guys do all the Africans do you like pie from each other cell with each other in our given now if you think you you've got to be integrated buddy nano set of three corners don't want other africanus to succeed okay is this a lived experience oh of course you really think there is not an enormous amount of jealousy it's the same a part I would say from the Jewish community where they actually do support one another don't get this thing that it's this that their jealousies in Australia it's the you know the tall poppy syndrome so you'd say vertical integration when you talk chickens the Rainbows opposition is in America who dumped chickens eeeh it is not a local chicken farmer at all it's tons and tons and tons of chickens subsidized in the United States and remember they're only impressed that only the quarters which we like so it's dumped here so again I think communication just right communication and sharing experiencing experiences will get rid of a lot of these fallacies but just remember the consumer is the king and queen they decide what they want to buy and in the end the consumer will decide they want the best product at the cheapest price and the best service at the cheapest price so so and I know I'm not a TV person so at exactly what our pasts the TV card is supposed to pull off and because we ran out of time set you know on the radio point of view I'm gonna ask us to push it until half past so that we can conclude some of those questions and either you decide if you want to stay or until a pass or or if you're moving on with us ways I'm told that Iman wisdom and you've got a question in - our talk show is just brilliant just like she's she's hot she's amazing don't sell me too hard because maybe you know dr. Rupert won't like what I'm about to say my mother raised me well doctor Rupert's that when you invite someone to your home for dinner you're a hospitable and you treat them with the utmost respect but what I will let you know is that the way our conversation is landing tonight is not landing well out there in fact sitting here listening to the conversation myself I feel like am I am I in the wrong place am I in the wrong room and I hear you know Laughton affirmation for some of the things that you are saying what would you say to south africans for whom your message jars in the way that you deliver who feel that the message of communicating is that why people have to be caretakers of black people in our country or that black people when they get wealthy will buy BMWs and hang out at - by the way - boo is trending so you put them on the map as a nightclub I don't know how long I don't know how many times it's a taboo but actually I'm saying how do you breach that because it's it's to me a classic case of cognitive dissonance you're in a context in which you converse in the way that you do you're obviously comfortable of doing that which is why you're doing that here this evening but I wanted to send you a signal not a signal from mama a signal from the outside how do you breach that divide with that sentiments amongst a lot of people who are listening that you're out of touch a little bit with how South Africans will be receiving your message which comes across as in and I'm use I'm hearing the word racist coming across from the tweets that I'm reading back I just like for you to just share from your own perspective as honestly as you have this evening I've been accused of a lot of things luckily oh so they also think so yeah this was I've been accused a lot of things luckily my age group know that I'm not racist I've been accused of a lot of things but the people who are now in their sixties know that I'm not a racist and you know it's that old thing so when you run out of arguments the older is when you are against apartheid you a call a communist now if you're against corruption how do you defend against being called a racist yeah how do you defend it you can call anybody a racist right luckily I've never been called that in public never been called that in private and luckily my friends know that it doesn't exist and I actually take a bit of exception to that so so so what I'm hearing you man if you can check the mic again you saying wait a man am i hearing you to be saying the lounge there reference to BMWs they taboos stereotypes black people as people who consume and splash is that maybe yeah please please please go ahead that is the echo and bounce in our society at least for the people that are communicating with me well I didn't say black people I said people do you think white kids done through the same do you think I'll generation of children done to the side what I'm trying to say is a previous generation didn't do it there was a totally different generation people who grew up in the depression simply they is globally a sense of consume now that's all I said to him and if people want to think that if they want to take it personally they should really question as to what the parents gave up or what the grandparents gave up and what they gave up are not talking in general I'm not saying color buyers race bias sex bias the people that are doing the worst of the people the United States that will leave a dirty planet borrowing unbelievable amounts of money and leaving debts to their children so I'm sorry if it came across as racist it's not racist okay it is a philosophy that people must understand that you can't consume now and pay for it tomorrow so untold that our MSC of education is spoke a lot about education or they didn't expand on its west by NASA okay our sold and then who is this person that this research with another powerless unless way to ask a question with it yeah thank you my name is Ronnie Mackenzie I'm a farmer and I appreciate what you were speaking about on farmers in that debate it's unfortunate what how you've presented everything you'd be regarded very arrogant firstly and money comes with arrogance in most cases but that being I want to put you to challenge on one thing you've got the money and I'm sure you can buy a South African seller to sell us at a loss and still make a profit probably speak a bit slowly I'm also struggling to hear you you said money comes from arrogance and then I say money can cause a cause Erica's okay yes I'm saying to the Honorable dr. there that likely you can buy the country and still sell us at a loss and still make a profit that's why probably you can speak as you just feel that you can speak and some of us appreciate cash is king you're speaking about issues of it now paying now for what you get for which is good being a farm I want to put you to challenge as a black farmer we come across a whole lot of Africans that are very arrogant that feel very entitled that feel the industry it's all about them and it's not about blacks so I want to say to you and that the repeat that as a black farmer we would like to actually be part of what endemic are is talking about on the legs up issue and present to you the challenges on access to markets the challenges of price taking we are those that want and believe in coming up with our own parallel structures we don't believe in buying into what is already of the existence okay we believe that we can as black people we don't want to be baby set by your ten creeks of ugly essays out there we don't want to be baby set by your your hand reports we can give us the resources we will show you magic thank you so so you speaking about by giving us the resource is saying you give an example of access to markets as an example I just wanna make sure I understand you look it's not necessary about access to I'm guessing as an example we are the market first and foremost right and advantage has been taken on us because we lack resources which in the main is capital I can to enable us to move forward catcher thank you all right and I'll take the last comment from unbeli the president of the black management forum where's Andy Lee let's keep the type refer to we've got literally eight minutes to go thank you given I'm actually very offended by the assertions that were made by mr. Ruppert but the issue here is not about him I think for the first time ever if black people in this room and outside there don't realize that they are on their own there will never be any other time they will realize thank you so ideally before Yousef masks you to be a little more direct what do you mean the reality here given is that we have the opportunity to understand what our white counterparts think support us the second thing is that we control the legislation in this country for us to advance ourselves we need to clench the levers of legislation and regulation that will control what happens with capital with opportunities with business prospects I thank you to a very refined my if I may respond I'd really like you to think that I came yet say we must speak with open minds and that goes both ways and I listen to you and I'm scared I'm sorry that I offended you you have offended me at BMF for the last five years I did not react I did not tell you you were wrong you've insulted me you've said things in public I'm talking as a group I say I know BMF yeah you see each other and now they've had personal insults I'm opening to seyn I'm saying our country's got very serious problems right and best illustrated by the clear division tonight it's clear a threat there's clear animosity insults quite frankly if that's the attitude I can tell you we're going to have serious problems in this country how do you let that get well I've offered from my side but they say if I if I say things on this on that I'm arrogant quite frankly I'm very happy not to get involved so so so I'm very very happy to actually spend time with friends and children and not to help because if you get insulted I mean in many other countries but yeah is that like that we've had about five or so six people some people talking to you as challenge you to get more other people and that's the nature of this conversation right the nature of this platform is that you have the benefit of insights but also the intelligence to decide what you take out of it right but if the conversation like this does not happen know you don't know who so with the limited time that we have I'm sorry given yes I've said to you the big problem this country yeah instead of people debating facts they get personal are they get emotional no and they attack their children and they attack individuals and that's a Donald Trump type style yes and it got elected but if we want to go to that kind of thing where people attack people instead of debating the issues I think all of us are adult enough to debate issues but why get personal all the time and this goes in all directions right and we carry on like this the other side loses interest you know the funny thing there very quickly now and the funny thing about about our country is that indeed each party each side's male female black white young old amongst generations each aspect of our society actually does have what they feel is a legitimate gripe against the other across gender lines of course age lines are called cultural lines the question and the point I was trying to make is that the essence of this conversation is to see their time here better feel better they decide with what we now know so what you call the egg and attack the benefit of what you have what somebody said there are certain things that you've said that of friends then the benefit that we have we still are in this place in this country what is to be done now in your burning remarks you said I'm tired of speaking people speaking across no no you've just had a perfect example representing no a perfect example right of the new and this is global culture if you lose your argument you call the other side arises even if you've not had an argument even if you've not had a debate it's the Trump style you insult people why not have a debate why not discuss the issues like adults these I can tell you our children are going to suffer if we don't figure this out right figure it out if we don't figure it if you don't figure the sauce the context of the emotions if we don't figure out why people feel a certain way within a certain posture a certain language if we don't figure why do we respond the way we do when certain things are done or not done said or not said indeed if we don't figure out why people feel a particular way why people were certain outlook to certain things why certain languages may be found to be offensive I have to agree we're in trouble but here's the good news as you conclude I want to thank each other for doing something you've never done and will never do again maybe not maybe not maybe for six years literally a two-hour conversation we said how you feel what do you think I in settle for us as power 98.7 we trust the intelligence of our listeners of viewers of this country to decide as individuals and as constituency's what it means to them because you can't tell anybody how to feel and how to think but we definitely believe as a platform given the platform to incur to to engage directly you are better off than you were a day before and indeed you can make informed decisions about yourself about your people about your country my last point whatever I was dealing with South Africa we happen to share the space and the air and it therefore remains our responsibility to leave this place better than it was yesterday ladies and gentlemen thank you so much for honoring our conversation for listening and for watching mr. Ruppert diaspora taking my brother thank you so much [Applause]

Channel: eNCA

Views: 175,540

Rating: 4.323741 out of 5

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Id: lnrK863tSRA

Length: 73min 24sec (4404 seconds)

Published: Tue Dec 04 2018