Chris Bache ‘Diamonds From Heaven’ Interview by Iain McNay

so hello and welcome again to conscious TV I'm in McNay a my guest today is Chris page hi Chris hang in and we found Chris quite recently he was doing a lecture in London and I read his short bio that came along with it the details for the lecture and I thought what a fascinating chap so I invited him and he very kindly agreed to come along and talk with us today Chris has written three books I only have two here that one is lifestyles a study of reincarnation in light of contemporary consciousness research and then this one here dark night early dawn steps to a deep ecology of mind and then the living classroom teaching and collective consciousness and then he has a new book which isn't published yet which is going to be called diamonds from heaven a 20-year journey into the mind of the universe so Chris let's start with you had these questions didn't you you've worked for many years lecturing in comparative religions psychology I think to some degree and then but there's the how you had these questions that were burning inside you well I was trained as a philosopher of religion and philosophers of religion our concern with the you know exploring the deeper questions of existence of the meaning of life and the structure of the universe and the limits of human consciousness and I had been these are the questions I've been trained as pursue in graduate school and then I came to my University Youngstown State University and just as I came there I encountered the work of stanislav grof and in psychedelic research and his book realms of the human unconscious this was 78 1978 and as soon as I read that book I was so deeply impressed with the caliber of the of the research that he had done and the caliber of his mind that I knew that I wanted to do this work and the questions you had were were questions with a variation about consciousness what are is what are its potentials and patterns what are its back are its boundaries these are slightly different from they're not the usual who am i what am i type questions yeah so these have been obviously working in you for a time for a time yeah yeah when I when I there were two people that I met my first year of teaching one was Ian Stevenson and his work on reincarnation research which opened up a whole world for me because I had never I finished graduate school as an atheistic Lee inclined agnostic you know Ian Steven dopant of reincarnation Stan opened up the opportunity to actually experience deeper dimensions of consciousness and by entering those dimensions and experiencing deeper dimensions of existence itself and that felt like the opportunity of a lifetime what philosopher wouldn't want to do that yeah the problem of course is this was 78 and they had been made illegal in the United States the first generation of work was over and we were 40 years away from the Renaissance of psychedelics that's taking place now so I was I made a difficult choice I decided to split my life on my public life in my public life I became I was a university professor I did all the things professors do I taught and published and served on committees but in my private life I began a private 20 year journey in using graphs methods of for me high dose LSD therapy 73 sessions over 20 years I worked for four years I stopped for six years and then I worked very intensely for 10 years so overall from 77 to 79 to 9 9 I did this work but because it was illegal and because if I had because if I had talked about this work I would have lost my job I had to keep quiet about it and it wasn't until after I retired and after I was passed the statute of limitations because I don't do this work now that I was able to begin to talk openly about what one can learn about consciousness and about the universe by following this particular method of exploration I think the interesting thing is you went into it as an adventurer but you went into it in a quite a discipline way in the organized way and the sessions were were all laid out I think your first wife was supporting you in the sessions and from what again I've learnt by talking to you in reading is that also the sessions in themselves were organized but not by you and so far they were sequential and it's like I didn't know so much about psychedelics I know lots of people that have been in LSD trips but it tends to be a trip yeah and another trip and it was for an adventure and it wasn't a serious study and you approached it as a serious study yeah and I think you talked about the big difference between doing that doing it for a recreational purpose yeah I've never taken LSD and gone to a concert I've never stayed up and talking with friends like this is a very specific methodology it's completely internalized it's Stan Groff's psychedelic therapy as he describes in his book psychedelic LSD therapy you're totally isolated you're cut off from the world you're you're in a private space you're lying down you're wearing eye shades you're listening to very carefully selected music my first wife was was and is a clinical psychologist and she was my sitter and you take the medicine and then you completely surrender and let it take you where it will take you and I did this work in contrast to current research with the Renaissance of psychedelic research which is very focused on healing agenda it which is important work very important a much smaller doses as well as much lower doses very low and gentler substances I did this work as a philosopher I wanted to explore the deep structure of consciousness that Stan had shown in his early work and the structure of the universe itself and I found that if you if you are willing to submit to this intense destructuring of consciousness you go through not just one death and rebirth but over time you go through a series of deaths and rebirths and deaths and rebirth that take you deeper and deeper and deeper into what do we call it the mind of the universe the mind of the cosmos the man's alive and in my experience I never controlled what was happening in the sessions I would try to set intentions but it working at levels this high which I don't recommend I mean I really because it was 500 600 I was working at five to six hundred micrograms yes yeah which now that I'm through it and looking back I really don't recommend working in a sustained manner with levels at high would be much gentler than myself if I were doing it again but at the time I didn't you know I was young and I took good care of myself I really very good care and everything was very methodical I kept detailed records within 24 hours of every session making a complete phenomenological record keeping track of all the variables of all the dates and then and I studied the sessions over years because these are complex experiences what I found was that if you open yourself deeply you enter into a conversation with the universe and the universe is interested in deepening your experience of it and so the universe takes you in and teaches you and and trains you and and softens what needs to be softened breaks what needs to be broken in order to allow you to entered more and more intimately into the deep structure of reality but you see doesn't it take a certain courage from you as a human being to allow that to happen because you've got no idea where it really leads yeah it does and this is one of the great gifts at Stan Grof gave me in reading his work one of the deep gifts I he gave me was to trust the process if you submit to it if you let it take you where it will take you no matter how terrible it becomes no matter how inscrutable the process if you surrender to it it will always culminate it will take you to a breaking point and then it will catch you you it you will die and then you will awaken into a different condition a different reality as a different being in a different dimension of existence Oh what do you mean that you will die what would it actually mean in a tangible way in order to experience intimately the the deep nature of reality you can't take your ego into that reality and have a transpersonal experience the only way to have these to enter into these realities is to become a citizen of those realities and our time-space identity just by the conditioning of time and space is keeps us small and in order to enter into X vast expanses of reality we have to let go of that which keeps us small so literally you go through a psychological death in the ego death it's very common and so ego death so it's a death of a construction of who we think we are yeah who we become through our conditioning yeah so I I was a white male highly educated philosopher concerned with the meaning of existence the universe broke me by turning into the exact opposite of all of those it it for hours and hours I experienced being female being poor being women of color and being women who had no interest in philosophy whatsoever which is perfectly fine accepted it completely negated my sense of who I was and when I finally yielded and let it let that happen and it allowed myself to become a woman it took me in the most marvelous experience of hundreds and hundreds of women's lives teach showing me just giving me the experience of being feminine that I wish every man had the opportunity to experience women as deeply as it gave it to me and when you say you yeah during these adventures that's cool and what is the you because if the ego is dissolved what is the new that's having this experience yeah that's that's one of the linguistic puzzles that kind of every mystic also always has to address that I is not this I but it is continuous with this I but it's not this I and so the first death is the death of ego there is continuity of awareness there's Conte there's continuity of a memory but discontinuity of capacity so when you die and wake up in a different reality you you remember who you are but you are not who you were when you were a human a time-space human being you you literally have become a different kind of being for six to eight hours at a time I wasn't I mean Chris base gets shattered and you literally learn how to be a different kind of being and then once you stabilize consciousness at this post egoic level and you go through various purification and transformative processes eventually if you keep pushing keep going deeper it will ask you to surrender even more deeply and it will you have to give up something more fundamental than your personal identity and when you do and you wake up into that next reality you're not chris beige you're not even who you died how Chris beige died into you are a different entity when you come back there is a thread of a memory but you are literally remembering having been different beings or different dimensions of being you see so it's the transformation happening within the trip or is it happening after you come back or is it back it's both it's it's certainly both and you know there's a lot of discussion of psychedelics and enlightenment and death psychedelics lead to enlightenment and what's the relationship and is it counterproductive is it productive and and these adventures were not aimed at enlightenment I mean they started that way the I started because I was interested in enlightenment and I thought I could do these sessions and ego would die and I would get to enlightenment faster but that turned out it changed very quickly because after I went through my first egodeath instead of personal transformation the story opened up into a story of deep Collective transformation I began to enter into what I call the ocean of suffering where I began to enter into what the Buddhists would call the hell realms just the the deep deep suffering that still lives within the collective psyche and this went on for two years and so many sessions and so many years involved so many people that it eventually shattered my perception of what was going on it it wasn't aimed at my personal transformation it was aimed at the transformation of some aspect of the collective unconscious of humanity and then after that after I went through that and after that culminated I entered into archetypal reality and when I entered into archetypal reality I went through a phase where I had to cease to be a human being and I discovered that there there is a human identity which is deeper than your individual human identity and just as I had had to die as Chris Bosh in order to become something larger I had to die as a human being per se I had to go completely outside any reframe of reference of humanity to move into bestest I could determine it was archetypal reality different dimensions of archetypal reality and it and each of those every step deeper is a step into a much more intense modality of energy so every step deeper is a step into a very very intense energy field so intense that in the beginning it can be shattering and very hard to maintain coherent awareness but I found that if if I went back again and I went back again over a year I went back again systematically about five times a year that you go through a purification process and a clarification process that you're you learn how to stay conscious in levels of reality that at the beginning you could not stay conscious in that you have to practice yeah I think to give it some context you did 73 trips yeah over 20 years I would never say trips good so what you would use the word Hashem's 73 sessions over 20 years yeah and then each session no matter how long the gap was sequential yeah so what would happen is that the end of one session the next session you would start where you left off the previous one approximately there's you know sometimes you have to sort of see the whole sequence before you understand the logic of the flow yeah it wasn't it was kind of like a keeping a dream journal it it's there is a logical flow that you can identify but sometimes you have to kind of go several layers down before you can see the overarching story yeah yes no I understand yeah and and you you had you took the time in between to kind of to integrate absorb what had happened and also you at you were saying last night when we had dinner that there also your body had to not as if it was recovering as such now but the body was adapting because the energy you're in yeah when you're in the session it's such a powerful energy and you know you've got this you've got the absolute coming in to some finite vessel which has to be able to accommodate that energy and that that was that was quite a big thing wasn't it huge yeah because every step deeper is more intense and you when you go into these states you open up into vast fields of consciousness and the energy is just huge and it's running through your system and you have to prepare your body to go into that states and then after your system shrinks down after the session you have to then continue to work with your body to help it absorb the the experiences health in a healthy manner you really have to stay clean in your in your heart habits and in your meditation and your in your yoga practice and in all the structural aspects of your body and I I found out my system had kind of a natural capacity to let go and I never had any trouble coming back and there was a natural congealing but you have to monitor your system very carefully throughout and I would have a session I would write it all up and I would have two or three months to think about it absorb it to ponder it follow its teachings because it gives you teachings yes and then I would open up again and the process would repeat itself in this manner because you also talked about those layers of conditioning yeah that you're letting go of yeah and it's not like you are saying I'm letting go yeah in the sessions the letting go is happening yeah because you're you there's an allowance there yeah I surrender it to the universe or this creative intelligence takes me in usually what happens in a session is the first half of the session is spent in some form of intense purification and then it reaches a peak and you're drawn then into the second half of the session which is some type of ecstatic experience some deeper immersion into the divine and then a series of teachings and then the system slowly closes down and do you remember all those teachers when you come back I do Wow now it have to qualify that just a little bit many layers and you go through this death rebirth cycle death rebirth and if you if you stop there you stay at that level but if you keep pushing and driving in it that's one of the things I found about the high dose LSD work it's just huge power it keeps pushing you to your edges to your outer limits when you break into a new level when you first break into a new level it's a different system different rules it works by a different process and when you first break through often recall is hard and you mate you get pieces you get aspects but they don't always go here in a way that makes sense to you so your your account will have sessions I will have gaps but if you go back again and you go back again and you go back again you train yourself how to stay conscious in that level of reality you go through purification and more purification and eventually you're able to maintain coherent cognition at that level of reality at that point the pieces begin to cohere you get a more coherent map of what's going on you get a clearer stabilized vision and this is one of the differences between therapeutic work and tripping it if you trip you may touch these places you know here there but if you want to have sustained conscious experience at various levels of reality you have to pay your dues and you have to work to be conscious at that level when you do that you come back I am able to bring it all back and when I write my account I found that I there's a technique I used which was the day after a session you're kind of a porous I would play the music that was used in the session in exactly the same order in which it was played and I would write the session up listening to the music that I had used in the session so it would kind of put me one foot in one foot out and I would I could get back into the space and it would help me remember and help me remember and I would get it down in print always and pushing it but with work with careful attention in the session and afterwards you can retain it I think one of the things that I particularly liked when I would know it was it I was think it was in the The Dark Knight book was that you you you kind of you've stressed that you cannot waken fully awakened individually because you had the realization you know that at the absolute level which you were you you you were visiting certainly certainly part of the time but it is all one so when you come back to the human vessel it makes thee it makes a real myth that someone can awaken individually yeah when the next person isn't fully awake how can that be that an individual awakes yeah another individual doesn't awake yeah you know the the metaphor that I like to use when I'm teaching this with my students is the metaphor of the leaf leaves and the tree's leaves if you imagine leaves being individually conscious and yet they are manifestations of the consciousness of the treats of both and so we are both individually conscious and there is a story of the individual evolution but if you really kind of dig deep and you ask well what is an individual then you encounter these kind of the collective psyche you know the consciousness of the planet the consciousness of the galaxy and from and then deeper into as you say the absolute what I call my beloved meanness in it individual awakening is really kind of it's a it's just a mistaken inference it's true that if you don't if you don't work individually you don't make progress and yet when you make progress you are actually drawing into your work I think you would touch the consciousness of many people and many people's consciousness are represented in your work so it's impossible to put a boundary on Awakening and the universe doesn't in this sense doesn't even think in terms of individuals I mean it does but it also thinks in terms it's interested in awakening the entire species it's not interested in awakening this religion and that religion or this planet this this continent that continent it's interested in taking the whole of the human family into its evolutionary progression and that's so that's I began to realize I wasn't doing these sessions for my personal work I wasn't doing it to you know for my personal healing or my personal transformation yeah it started with the questions but the adventure that you far beyond yeah those initial questions yeah and then beyond even Collective transformation it just became an adventure in knowing the universe just an adventure in being drawn deep into intimacy with the creative intelligence and drawn into causal reality into oneness into Shunyata emptiness and into the fertile void into the satchitananda you know the existence before existence just one adventure after another deeper and deeper and there I have an acute sense of that the universe loves to be known I mean the universe wants to be known so any part we are the universe with we are part of it's snowing and when we when we return to source when we begin that journey back to point of origin we are met with the what do you call it again it's we are met by this massive supreme intelligence this extraordinary compassion and loving beyond imagination and it's so happy that part of it has come back to experience it and to know it and it wants to show you creation it wants to show you what has been going on because we're it's been working for billions and billions and billions of years and we are just getting to where in the last few thousand years we can begin to open up deeply enough to consciously participate and to see the creative process and it's so happy when we do that and do you have a view on so your your adventure took you to these this knowledge this experience and yet there's other people that go the path of contemplation and meditation so they have very similar experiences yeah the deep do you feel that your way was slightly different I know in terms of substance it was but do you feel that realizations and the knowledge of your way was that different from from the way of contemplation and meditation no I think that not the cosmology that came out of this work is not different than the cosmology that you see in the great contemplative traditions the great spiritual traditions you know all honor to the great masters who have done this under the very power of their own daily practice means and I taught courses in mysticism and meditation and the great spiritual sages were always my teachers and always my masters and they kept me but what they described and what I experienced seemed to fit hand in glove hmm so I don't there's nothing new there the only thing new is that we have a different method who could let them someone of modest spiritual capacity if they have sufficient determination and courage just to submit to the regimen even someone of modest spiritual capacity like me might have temporary experience of these things now as Houston Smith said a mystical experience does not a mystic make you know so you can't take these experiences in and use them to maintain but that consciousness permanently it would be so good if you could but by going back and forth and back and forth and doing the practice you're doing your work in the daily way hopefully more and more of it internalizes itself in your being and and you grow you grow yeah I think one of the interesting thing was that you midway through through this adventure you wrote this book yes the the living classroom yeah which was about the about what was happening with you with your students yeah and you don't mention psychedelia - yeah secretary experiments at all in this yeah and yet something very special what's happening between you and your students yeah do you want to talk briefly about Lawrence I wrote living classroom towards the end of my teaching career and and I don't mention psychedelics at all because it's not about counting psychedelics it's about consciousness but the backstory to it is I was teaching and I was doing my private work and I never talked about my psychedelic experiences to my students I never you know I just kept a firewall between my professional life and my personal work but what I found over time was that my students were being activated by my private work that when I would go into deeper states of consciousness or go through some death rebirth process they were spontaneously being activated in their own life in ways that I began to recognize were parallel to what was happening in my and another thing began to happen when I was lecturing on something and I would just need an example to make a point about and I would just pause and wait and I would think of an example and I would use the example and students began to come up to me after class and they began to say you know it's funny that you used that example because that's exactly what happened to me this week and first this happened I thought well okay coincidence but it kept happening it kept happening and the deeper I went in my work these synchronicities began to touch very very deep pieces of their life and it was like there was a radar operating that was connecting me to where they were hurt what they needed to hear the the some healing that they needed some idea that they needed and when they would hear them their life being suddenly in the room they could not help but get involved deeply and when I began to see that this was happening pretty regularly I began to realize I have to understand this I I have to not only do I have to understand it but I have to figure out how as an educator how to work with it do I need to protect them from what's happening do I need to build barriers or how can i how can I be myself and teach in a way that's safe for them and yet also allows me to just be Who I am what I am and that's what the living classroom is about it's about consciousness in its natural condition is boundless and endless and doesn't have firm membranes and edges there is a private consciousness of a sort but in its end consciousness is like a lake you throw in a stone the ripples spread out and so I developed a strategy a set of strategies for how to work with consciousness in the context of rooms of people groups of people and I also found out that there there is a field energy I mean I'd read Rupert Sheldrake and his work in morphic deals but I had always thought of morphic fields in terms of species whole species but what I found is that there are feels that congeal around courses there feels that congeal around students in a room and if you teach the same course year after year after year there's a feel that congeals and get stronger that reflects the learning of all the students who have taken that course with you and that field accelerates the student the learning of students who take the course five or ten years down the road and and so once you know that that's happening you can begin to work cooperatively strategically with those fields so there's just it's a whole different modality of pedagogy you might call it instead of a newtonian pedagogy it's a quantum pedagogy so for example I found it's important to close those fields at the end of the course so if you open the room into kind of the collective energy of these fields students get very deeply touched I mean they get deeply activated but at the end of the course I found that I found that students were kind of showing up in my office after a course was over and they just kind of wanted to talk or and at first I thought oh that's nice they had a good course but then I began to realize now something's wrong they were caught they were still stuck they were still connected to the field but they didn't have any place to take it so I began to realize not only do you open these reveals and work with them skillfully you have to close them skillfully so you have to go through a process both socially in the room and sort of shamanic lis and spiritual practice to close the fields because you don't want to encourage that type of dependence I want my students to be independent I want them to take the learning go to their next course integrate what their next professor has to share on their own field and find their own and I want them to free in the world and so it's just lots of you know there was a lot of learning I think there was one interesting example you used in the living classroom about how you found that when a student would ask you a question if you didn't reply straight away you just were open for a few seconds you'd see like this door open yeah and a whole new dimension to the answer to the question would come yeah well it's like I found if I stopped and instead of saying the first thing that came to my mind cuz you know pretty much every question they ask is something you've already heard before but if I stopped the I visual it's suddenly I saw a little blank a door in the back of my mind and a piece of paper came through the door and I read the paper and it was a different answer and so when if I if I tried it all of a sudden they the eyes would light up and the energy of the room would light up and we would we would go in a new and novel direction and and so my teaching began to be a dialogue between organized I organized how to do a lot of notes and really thoroughly organized but then this improvisation and my understanding is the improvisation that was coming through this deeper consciousness connection was what happened when my mind was put into the context of our collective mind and the teaching came out of a dialogue between the minds who were there and my mind who was there and you also talked about how the students were changing you oh yeah yeah felt that and he talked about there's a quote from the book over the years the students broke me down and rebuilt me yeah that's quite radical to say these students broke you down and rebuilt you yeah I've always was always blessed with really good students they they were willing to engage deeply the questions that I asked and we danced we danced together and in that process they they opened up my heart they they invited me into the room and they let me into their lives you know not in a counseling kind of way but in an intellectual and in a philosophical inquiry kind of way and we work together and in that process they taught me about this hidden territory in the room they taught me what could happen when good people of good hearts came together in this adventure and and they did they broke me down I learned for example at first I thought you know I would a student would ask a question and I would have an answer only because of an experience that had recently happened to me our book I just recently read our session I just had and I thought oh that's interesting I do the work and suddenly the universe has this capacity to use my knowledge to seed knowledge in somebody else's life and then I began to realize they had it all backwards that sometimes I was having the experiences I was having and reading the books that I was having was reading because there was a questioning student who was coming to me in the future so that my learning was actually being seeded by their desire to know and once you let go at that level once you stop thinking that you were the orchestrator of this entire enterprise that it's really a collaborative enterprise right from the start then and you realize that your learning and teaching is so deeply embedded in their learning and teaching then there is a self in that you know where are the boundaries of the self you know it just becomes a dance of presences in the room and and when life uses you in that way when life kind of uses you in that delicious way to when that cross fertilization takes place it's the sweetest feeling in the world to me you know you're just part of something larger are you released to it and they relief and they release to it and they took me there I could not I could not go there by myself they took me there and then at some point a great sadness came upon you on your adventure talk about yeah as years past you found yourself entering a deep sadness your enthusiasm for life was fading you began to feel separated and marooned reached the point when you realize he was just waiting to die to return to your beloved yeah that was after I stopped the journey yes so I have to kind of fill in a little bit of a blank and then I can say what happened after the burning in the book I tell the story and diamonds from heaven I tell the story of ego death moving into the ocean of suffering and then moving into archetypal reality and and then moving into causal reality and it's having these wonderful unitive experiences and and I I was completely satisfied at that point I mean you know to merge so deeply but there were still five years in the journey ahead and what happened is I went through yet another cycle of death and rebirth and I was taken into a domain of light that was so clear so exquisitely just clear clear beyond imagination Buddhism calls it dharmakaya the absolute reality of clear light and over five years and 26 sessions I was taken into this reality four times just four times and in between those four sessions there was tremendous purification you know and and so it was you literally in these states of awareness you become light you just dissolve completely into light and you and you have the qualities of light and the boundlessness of light and the you just dissolved in the into the crystalline nature of the divine now I don't mean divine in any theistic sense or in any conventional sense but I don't know how else does what other vocabulary to give to it in each of those four adventures going deeper into the divine there were a series of things that happened and then the divine began to come deeper into my body but then I reached a point after being handled very carefully and broken down but handled carefully and then this consciousness camp brought me to the end of my work it just it brought me to the end it gave me a an overview of all of my sessions from the beginning to the end to show me the whole pattern to put all the pieces together and then it gave me a last set of instructions as I was about to leave I didn't know it was over but it called it and so I knew I knew I had to stop my work and and the primary reason I stopped the work was because it became too difficult to come back from the light it became so painful to come back into time and space after having dissolved so completely into this infinite white and okay I want light comes in many many little it comes in early on it it has layers and layers and layers but the diamond light is what I call the diamond light is a particularly it's a particular advanced form of the light it's a very very deep expression of light so I stopped my sessions and I had always been integrating my sessions carefully all the way through but what I found was when I stopped my sessions and I thought I would now because I had done this work carefully I would be able to just enjoy the fruits of that labor but what I found over time is that a deep sadness settled in over me and over time I began to realize I was suffering from a loss of communion I I just there was such a longing for that light and I could I did not have the spiritual maturity or the spiritual capacity to incarnate that light in my physical existence and I've reached a point where I began to realize I I was just waiting to die I was taking care of my students taking care of my family I was doing the things that I would do but in my heart of hearts I was waiting to die so I could return to the light and I began over the years I began to realize that this is not right this is not the way it's supposed to go somewhere along the way I made a mistake I must have made a mistake because this is not the way it's supposed to be so I really went back and re-examined the whole process and I began to realize that you could say I was suffering from too much God but since the physical universe is a man is the the divine as well I'd say I had lost balance a balance between transcendence and imminence I had plunged so deeply into the transcendent divine that I lost my foothold my place in the imminent divine and that's that's incredibly valuable the eminent divine is so valuable SOI I had to make a concerted effort to congeal my life and to come to terms with being where I was as I was and to continue the process of doing my spiritual practice so that I could let the divine the the light enter more deeply into my body and into my consciousness so it's a it's an ongoing process I mean it's it's a work still in process yes but you you you say talk about in the book the but was not published yet yeah Diamond Thomas from heaven yeah the it's the fact the human things like the family yeah it was so important to you oh yeah in helping you sort of refine the ground yeah and finally pleasure again in human things yeah because yes you were almost blown away that what was there but there's so much beauty also in a human realms that somehow they're these are my words rather than yours which been taken out of significance but in themselves they're wonderful absolutely I mean my family was always the my my rock my students and my family I have three children and and just always coming back wherever I was on Saturday Monday I was with my classes and I was always with my children like these flowers on the table what magnificent expressions of creation there are and the the diamond luminosity the light is magnificent we have a huge tremendous hunger to touch these realms and return to them but the physical world is the manifestation of that reality in tangible form and so Nature has been a tremendous balm for me it just just nature the starry sky being in the woods being in nature being with people this is another aspect of that sadness the sadness wasn't just loss of communion the other installation you the sadness is in our culture I wasn't allowed to talk about these things you know in traditional culture you bring your visions back to the elders who help you understand them and because your visions were are not meant for you they're always collective but in my culture I wasn't allowed to talk about my sessions I couldn't bring these visions back I couldn't teach from them I couldn't share them with my colleagues and that sickness of silence just added to my sadness it just isolated me and it makes you sick inside living in a psychedelic closet is just as injurious that's living in any other closet where you have to deny yourself in order to live in your culture writing diamonds from heaven was really my step back to the world and sharing these visions doing what I was designed to do to be a teacher I find I share just to just bring them forward just to let hopefully they'll be of use to people hopefully they'll find them helpful since some way and to be able to begin to share them to bring them back to be able to speak without reservation of about my experiences and and it's my experiences are not important in that what's important is all of our experiences I mean I what's important is that all of our experiences of the transcendent reality or these realities be put on the table we look at them together and we find out what's important what's not important so I don't have any attachment to my I don't own these experiences yeah but it took you you you you you says you also seen in him on the books that at the end of the 20 years yeah you were told or you felt it would take 20 years of integration yeah and actually the 20 years is up next year it's getting close yeah yeah 20 life yeah at first when after I done the sessions and when my meditation spirit told me 20 years in 20 years old they would take 20 years to absorb them now I'm coming close to those 20 years that I'm thinking that might have been optimistic because these things are so deep if sometimes it feels like it will take many lifetimes to absorb them and that really rate I have really basic questions how do you experience how do you integrate infinity into finite structures yeah you know some of my experiences involved going far into deep to what I call deep time outside of time and space deep into the future deep into different dimensions of time how do you integrate those breaths of time into Monday Tuesday Wednesday consciousness you know and in the end where I am now I don't think you can the only thing we can do is integrate our finite existence into the infinite so we do our practice we surrender which we make ourselves available we do everything we can to respond to the needs of the present and if we do that consistently hopefully then the infinite becomes a deeper and deeper living reality in our conscious awareness yes and again I was saying to last night that it's not so much just the experiences you had which are amazing experiences I find for myself it just I get to understand something or have an experience or had a realization and it can take me years to properly integrate that yeah I realize it's still hanging around in a form that yeah isn't totally something I can absorb and I just think I just feel more and more on there a kind of a spiritual journey people often give themselves too much of a hard time yeah if they think well yeah I kind of got that I must move on and now I must get something else or I shouldn't be clear you know you do your best but you know as you found out it's a process it takes time you cannot force these things you can be available you can do the you can do the meditation and there look after yourself and there many other supportive work in the same time it does it's it's a slow and gradual process you you can't cheat nature it takes time you can kind of push it but in the end you have to let nature take its course yes yeah okay Chris I'm looking at the clock and nature's taking its course and yeah time needs better thank you up thank you so much Ian it's so good to have this conversation with you thank you for it thank you for coming along to conscious TV and I'm gonna mention your new book which should be out sometime next year next year something diamonds from heaven a 20-year journey into the mind of the universe and then the three books already out dark night early dawn living classroom which we touched on about halfway through the interview about Chris's teaching and the first book which I have naturally like Michael's life cycles a study of reincarnation in light of contemporary consciousness research so if you're interested in Chris there's a lot to read there's also I think on your you've got a website yet but there is an option there is um a lecture you did in in Prague yes is about an hour long which I found very useful for picking up the details of Chris's psychedelic adventuring international transpersonal conference last September in Prague right yeah okay yeah so there lots of fun I think I'd like to explore this more on conscious TV so if you've got the ideas of people that we should look at interviewing them then get in contact you bet okay thanks again Chris Thank You Ian thank you for watching and I hope we see you again soon goodbye you

Channel: conscioustv

Views: 24,174

Rating: 4.884058 out of 5

Keywords: Chris Bache, Diamonds from Heaven, LSD, Lifecycles, Dark Night, Early Dawn, The Living Classroom, Diamonds From Heaven, Stan Grof

Id: yewNM9smrqo

Length: 54min 55sec (3295 seconds)

Published: Wed Jul 04 2018