CHEAP TURBO TEST-K24A2 BOOST RESPONSE TEST

[Music] today is awesome because it's a boost and we've got four different turbos that we ran on the k24a2 so let's check it out in this video as i said is the boost day we're going to check out four different turbos on our k24 a2 and the reason that i did this is we were trying to select a turbo for our big bang application where we're going to turn the boost all the way up and try to make as much power as we can now for that application we actually wanted a turbo that was specifically not responsive because what's going to kill this motor and probably break a piston or a connecting rod which is the thing i think is going to go in this combination we're going to break that with a big torque number so if we can limit the boost response we don't have power until the top of the rpm range and then we can get a big power without actually hurting the motor now that's the plan but this also gave us an opportunity to test a bunch of different turbos that i had and show response rate because on a typical street application you don't want a laggy turbo that makes a bunch of top end you want a responsive turbo that makes lots of boost down low so you have a lot of average power production the car feels better it accelerates harder it does all the wonderful things the downside to that is you know we all put a turbo on there i'm only going to run 10 pounds and then you know it would be better than 10 pounds is 12 pounds and then 15 pounds and then 20 and then pretty soon all of it so there's always a trade-off between response rate and ultimate power production so you have to choose your turbo wisely in this episode we're going to take a look at four different turbos so you guys can pick between the response rate and the absolute power let's check it out okay guys i'm real excited because it is a boost day today we're going to run boost on our k24 a2 not only are we going to run boost but we're gonna boost from four different turbos that's right i got to run four different turbos on this thing but before we could do that we had to make changes to our n a combination because when we were running our nak24a2 it had this uh small race header on it it also had kinsler stack injection on it we also had the skunk two ultra camshafts the stage twos and obviously springs and stuff so we could run those camshafts but run in that configuration with the kinzler injection on it with the stack injection the ir manifold this thing made over 300 horsepower so it did good made 303 horsepower and peak torque was at 209 foot-pounds of torque as you might see here we ran it all the way out to 8700 rpm but obviously as much as we would have liked to we couldn't run that stack injection with boost because we would have to configure some side of common plenum rather than do that we changed over to a couple of different intake manifolds before we added boost we added a couple of skunk to their ultra race manifolds or we did an ultra race and an ultra street because we had them both why not test them both here was the ultra race manifold compared to the stack injection you can see it lost power which we would kind of expect that kinser stack injection works really well on these hondas so it dropped the power down to 287 horsepower and you can see it lost power through most of the curve big change in runner we also have a common plenum there but while we were there we also tested the um ultra street manifold and it was a little bit better the red here a little bit better in the mid-range fell off a little bit at the top as it turned out we weren't going to be running this thing with boost much past 8000 rpm anyway because we didn't have to but it goes to show you how much power we lost going away from the kinzler injection and how much they are worth if you're running an all motor deal an individual run or stack injection obviously worked pretty well but now it's time for boost now that we've run our na stuff on our k24 a2 it's time for some boost so the first thing that we did was install a 62 millimeter turbo from precision turbo and unfortunately i do not have all the specs on that turbo for you unfortunately sorry about that guys but this particular turbo i've had for about 10 years this 62 millimeter from precision was used on a suzuki kazashi that we ran with the guys from suzuki back in the day it was a land speed project and we got this little suzuki kazashi sedan to go over 200 miles an hour out 200 miles an hour and set a record out at bonneville we turned this thing up just enough so it it would set the record and and break the record we went 203 or 204 miles an hour and it had a lot of power left because we had run to much higher boost on the chassis dyno but we only wanted to go out be successful set the record and then if need be have a bunch in reserve if next year somebody broke our record and then we could go back out and re-establish our record after we ran that that bonneville project suzuki didn't do that project anymore so i took the turbo set it in a box this was back in 2010 so recently when i was over at skunk 2 i took that turbo back out of the box dusted it all off from the from all of this asian dust that accumulated over the last decade put a little bit of oil in it spun the turbo put it on and then we ran it so the thing works well but what i wanted to do is compare this turbo to three other size turbos that are that are all bigger because we knew that we're going to run when we do this as a big bang thing and find out how much power this k24 a2 will actually take that little 62 millimeter is not going to take us where we need where we think we might need to go so what i wanted to do is demonstrate the response rates of all these turbos because we actually don't want a very responsive turbo when we're doing a big bang we just want a big peak number and not a big torque number but i want to show you what this turbo would do and run on our custom i'll show you a picture here of the custom super richie turbo exhaust manifold which is basically the stock exhaust manifold that we welded pipe to and then i added a bunch of other extensions that i had laying around we had two turbosmart wastegates and while it looks terrible and everyone's going to say yeah you need a dedicated you know stainless double throw down racing turbo manifold the reality is that this works just fine and if you look at the comparison between the n a number versus the boost and the power output on the turbo combination it's going right in line so at this kind of power level even that kind of manifold design actually works fairly well but i want to show you guys this is our this is our turbo combination this is at about seven pounds you know made over 400 horsepower made 420 but what we can do is i'll show you what happened we we went up and boost even though this has um the stock uh exhaust ours stock uh head gaskets on it's like bolts stock rod bulls always stock pump all of that stuff and we're not turning it all the way up yet until we uh take care of some of that stuff but i'll show you what happened when we turned the boost up we went up to about 15 pounds or so so these are at a couple of different boost levels you can see it's it's doing exactly what it's supposed to it's going you know it's kind of going up and up and we eventually got to the point where you know at about 15 or 15 and a half pounds this thing was making over 600 horsepower made 605 so the little 62 millimeter was actually you know fairly responsive it had a good torque curve i mean it had over 400 foot pounds from about 52 or 5300 all the way out past 77 or 7 800 so it had kind of a broad tert curve which is kind of what we expect when we're doing these turbo honda things so let's take a look at our next turbo the next turbo we installed on our k24a2 was our gt45 clone that everybody sells on ebay we bought this one this one was from dna and we bought it for a hundred and sixty three dollars and i've used this little ebay gt45 turbo on everything i mean i've run it on four eight five three six liter six two ls combinations we run on 454 big blocks i ran both as a single and a twin on the big block i ran it on the buick 455 i ran it on and we're getting ready to run on a 500 inch cadillac i run on five liters and hemis i mean you name it we've applied this turbo to basically everything the reason i've done it is because it's so cheap i mean it was 163 dollars and so i wanted to run this and see how it compares to these other turbos on our k24a2 because it's nice to have a really cheap turbo option and as it turned out it worked fairly well on this combination um obviously we made 287 horsepower at this boost level we were 463 horsepower probably in the 8 pound range unfortunately i didn't have a lot of the data logging i was running this at skunk 2. i don't have a lot of the information that i normally have when i run at westec but for what i'm trying to do here today that really wasn't a problem we'll be able to compare all the turbos and i want to show you the response rates of the different turbos we'll talk about that a little bit but let's take a look at um what happened like the others when we just basically turned up the boost on this thing and it works fairly well this little ebay gt45 so you know more boost more power and we didn't crank this one all the way up either we you know we we could keep going up up near 600 horsepower we stopped at about 587 because we had a lot of turbos that we wanted to test we had um three other or two other ones that we wanted to test beside this but you can see that as we turn the boost up you know it the response rate is the same down here from as we're starting our load at 3000 rpm so we're seeing the same boost rise and then if we set our boost low it continues out with this purple line as we go up we get the green as we go up even more we get the red and that's the nice thing about turbo stuff and why everybody likes forced induction because if we just keep adding boost we just keep adding power and all these turbos were wrong with our air-to-water intercooler running basically dyno water i think it was about 80 or 85 degree water running through our inner core so it kept things nice and cool we also ran all these tests on e85 these were run at 17 degrees of ignition timing and then obviously we played with the vct the variable cam timing to try to get things as responsive as they as they could all of the turbos were run with the same uh cam timing and ignition timing to make their our response rate test kind of accurate but here's the ebay gt45 turbo and it has plenty of potential in fact that turbo probably has more ultimate power potential than that little 62 millimeter does we've run this ebay gt45 turbo on a small 48 up near 800 horsepower so it has the potential and on a smaller motor that probably would be even better because i think on our gt45 we typically run out of exhaust flow before we run out of compressor flow so let's take a look now at a 7875 gen 2 from vs racing so the next thing where i installed was a 7875 gen 2 turbo from byron over vs racing he sent that out we did done a bunch of als testing i've used it again when i have a turbo we use it on a number of different things so i thought i would apply it here not that i think that this turbo is ideal for this as we found out it works very well i've never seen compressor maps on any of these turbos to know exactly how to you know apply them at the right pressure ratio and stuff but you know i the other the other way to get around that without having the maps is actually to put them on there and test them and hey let's see how they work how much power do they make is it following the formula because basically the formula is that if you have an n a motor and it makes 300 it should make near 600 at 14.7 pounds of boost you've doubled the atmospheric pressure you can double the power output at that atmospheric pressure when everything is right and since we're running e85 and we have an intercooler that shouldn't be any problem doing that as a matter of fact we can do even better than that a lot of times on good combinations like like a k series and especially if we get the charge temperature down low which we will be doing when we run the big bang on this thing i'll be running ice water on the intake manifold so that we can make sure we can get to the highest power level we can without worrying about detonation but on our 7875 gen 2 turbo this thing worked really well you know we're over 460 horsepower or so at seven or eight pounds and then like with the others we went up and boost and up and boost and made more power so you know more boost more power more power more problems suppose we go up and up so again like the others we ran this up at uh you know five that this one was 588 but it certainly had a lot more left we know that because that's a the 7875 is certainly a thousand horsepower turbo so it would certainly make enough to to support whatever kind of power level we could possibly get i think out of this um k24 a2 with a stock bottom end it's certainly capable of pushing this thing up into four digits um we just wanted to kind of show the response on this and as you can see you know we're going up and up and boosting going up and up in power so good things are happening again that's why people like these turbo things because if a little bit is good then a lot is better and we run that run the boost up right up to the point where we start getting in trouble so let's take a look at our final turbo from force performance our final turbo came from robert over at force performance it was a 75 82 with a 110 ar so it was a pretty good size turbo especially on the hot side what we wanted from him was we told him what we were trying to do that we wanted a turbo that was capable of a thousand horsepower and something that was maybe softer on spool because we don't want to have a big torque number on this thing we just want to have a big peak number which is obviously not what you would want for most kinds of street applications and that's the kind of the cool thing about this test is i'm going to show you in just a minute in in the last segment the response rates of these two of these four turbos and you guys can take a look and say hey for the street in this kind of power level i would want this one and this particular turbo is probably not the choice for a k24 a2 certainly not something for the street unless you're trying to make a ton of power and then which case this is probably going to work fairly well but this allows you to select which one would be good for your particular application that's why it's good to see more than one kind of turbo but we selected this one to work for our big bang deal to give us a really high peak power and a soft spool and kind of that's exactly what it did so we ran this combination again at seven or eight pounds and it's making good power and i'll show you the different boost levels that we ran this thing at so as we went up and boost obviously good things are happening and one thing that's interesting on this one i'll show you when we're done adding all these up here nice little railroad tracks on our turbo combination the interesting thing about this particular turbo is unlike the other ones that were kind of falling off at the top this one was wanting to make more and unfortunately i don't have the data that i need to kind of tell you what's going on there i don't have the back pressure that i would normally have um we didn't make changes to the tune the airfield was the same the ignition timing was the same the cam timing was the same so since it's doing it with one turbo and not the other it obviously has to be a function of the turbo which might also be a function of the back pressure you guys can let me know what you think this thing was obviously wanting to get with the program and as we'll take a look now we can kind of compare the four different turbos at the same kind of boost level and same power level to show you the response rates you can kind of see what's going on so it's really cool stuff so now we've taken a look at all of the turbos run at various boost levels and you can see that the power is going up obviously as we add boost and they all have plenty of potential and work out very well let's take a look at the response rates of all the turbos so we can kind of compare them in the area that guys should be interested in kind of for street applications so this is our 62 millimeter turbo so now let's overlay that against the the gt45 so red is the gt45 so when you look in this range here from like 3500 up to up past 5000 up to the 5500 range you can see that the the gt45 was a lot softer on the spool this is just the horsepower curve what i'll do at the end is we'll switch over to the torque curve it just gets really busy if we have both of them up there especially if we have multiple runs which we're going to have four of them so that's the gt45 versus the 62 millimeter now let's look at the 78.75 so the 7875 again they're all comparable and this difference up here in in peak power is just maybe a slight difference in the in the boost curves because it's hard to get the boost levels exactly the same and really we're concerned more with the spool rate but you can see that the the low speed response of the bigger turbo the 7875 compared to the gt45 and also compared to the 62 millimeter now again we didn't choose these turbos for this application a lot of these are ones that i just have laying around i'm just trying to show the difference so we're not saying hey you need to use this one or you need to use this one it just helps to show you guys what's going on so the final one is the one from force performance that we had that we expect that has a really big hot side so again that's the softest of the of the four and again we that was by design we want that to happen so we can run a really big power output without having a ton of torque down low but this goes to show you what the important thing when you're picking a turbo and sizing it for your combination so if you're looking at something that you want to make six or even 700 horsepower let's say with something like that 62 millimeter or something you know if you're looking if you want good street response there are things that you do to get that thing to be more responsive obviously you size the turbo correctly the little 62 millimeter in blue here is the better choice here you can easily make as much you can easily make this power level you can easily make higher power levels with that with that turbo as well and you'll have much better response than something that's going to be bigger when you get something bigger where you're looking for you know high three three-digit or four-digit power levels you start sacrificing response that's part of the deal now the way that you can help that obviously is with cam timing if i was building a street motor i probably would stay with stock cams or stage one cams for a turbo application i would also might think about the the intake manifold if you want to have really good response then the long runner factory intake manifold that we had on this k24 a2 this jdm version actually would work really well it helps turbo response but it will sacrifice power higher in the rpm range if you're wanting to run this thing to 8000 rpm maybe a little shorter runner like this skunk manifold or or a civic manifold would work well so those are all things that you can do so now let me um let me change this over to torque so you guys can kind of see what's going on so this is the torque curve and it's kind of even more pronounced with the torque because you know below 5252 you have a bigger change in torque than you do in horsepower but it's more prevalent look at the torque production like the difference between the spool rates of these turbos now i know a lot of guys are saying well yeah but you can tune around that with variable cam now all of these things were optimized for that already this is a spool rate this is a function of the turbo sizing and the power output of the na motor on this combination so smaller turbo is more responsive you can make plenty of power so size the turbo for what you want to do if you want to make 600 wheel horsepower then size your turbo for one that's going to be efficient in that range offer good response because here's what's going to happen even if one makes a little bit more power at the top this response rate is going to dictate who wins in that race because more average power is the one that wins let's get to our conclusion okay guys what'd you think about the test of our four different turbos on our k24a2 obviously boost that always adds power but it's important to look at the results of this test and go hey i want this turbo with this kind of response and i'm going to balance the response with the oh the turbo response of the boost response with the ultimate power output so make sure to choose your turbo wisely but there are other things that you can do to improve the power output of your turbo combination doesn't matter whether it's a honda or a ford or chevy or whatever it is what you do is improve the power output of the n a combination so anything that you do to your n a motor will yield power gains once it's under boost so if you change the cam shaft or the intake manifold runner length or port the head everything that you do to improve the na power output will allow that motor to make more power at any given boost level and obviously more power always good so make sure to like share subscribe ring the bell do all that stuff obviously i have more testing coming up on this k24 a2 we are going to take it apart we are going to put ring gap in it i'm going to put headsets on it we're going to use very good gas and i'm going to make sure that i have all of the data that i normally have when i run at westex because i want to have boost before and after the intercooler i want to have charge temperatures i want to have back pressure i want to have all of that data so not only can we try to make a big number so what do you guys think do you think we can get to a thousand horsepower we turn this thing all the way up i want to get to a big number but i want to have all the data to go along with it thanks for watching guys

Channel: Richard Holdener

Views: 82,811

Rating: 4.9347444 out of 5

Keywords: TURBO, K24A2, BOOST, INTERCOOLER, RESPONSE, SPOOL, EXHAUST MANIFOLD

Id: 3hWjxU8wzgQ

Length: 21min 33sec (1293 seconds)

Published: Wed Nov 18 2020