TURBO vs EATON vs KENNE BELL vs VORTECH-4.6L 4V BOOST BATTLE! !

in a head head shootout run at the same boost same timing and same air/fuel who makes more power a roots blower centrifugal twin screw our turbos what kind of crazy guy would go through the trouble of running all the different forms of forced induction a roots blower a twin screw blower a centrifugal blower and turbos all on the same motor same boost same air fuel same timing who would do that this guy right here that's exactly what I did in this video we're gonna run a roots blower a twin screw blower a centrifugal blower and turbos all on a 2004 Cobra crate motor now we upgraded the crate motor with cams put it up on the dyno ran at n/a then ran all the different forms of force induction all the same boost same air fill same timing so everything was the same this test will show us not only which one makes the most power but the different power curves generated by each form you see one form isn't the best for all applications it's nice to be able to choose which one you want in this test we'll find out all those answers so let's take a look at the data and find out what happens before we get to the test remember this is another opportunity to apply the holder power boost formula now I've been using this form in since way back in 1990 whenever on my first test for Kip Kington at turbo magazine back then I had a vortex supercharged 5-liter Mustang which I still have oh gee original owner 5 liter LX it's a great car and I'm gonna do some cool stuff with it later on but I still have the car back then I ran a Vortech supercharger you on this thing it was my first opportunity to apply that power boost formula now I didn't come up with a formula obviously people were using it long before I did Corky Bell and Gail banks and even before those guys guys just names like Miller and often Hauser I mean everybody knew about this I'm just carrying it forward and it's my hope that if you haven't seen the power boost formula check it out the videos right here but it's my hope that people will carry this forward even after me but have the good character not to take credit for I mean I didn't come up with it those guys didn't come up with it the people before them didn't couple it basically just the laws of physics remember apply the power boost formula to all these combinations and let's see what happens our first comparison is we're gonna run the 4.6 liter 4 valve basically you know 300 for cobra crate motor that was way back in the days supplied by foreign bracing and we upgraded it with set of comp extreme energy there Exene 262 aah cams I'll put the specs up here on the thing so you can see what the specs were they picked up about 50 horsepower of the cams by themselves over the factory o3 Cobra cams so we ran those cams and what I'm going to do is will show the power gains offer by each form of forced induction and we're start out with the factory roots blower the blower that the supercharger that came on the o3 cobra motor so we'll show what happened and we're gonna run all of these forms of horse nuts basically at the same power levels close get and we'll go over it when we talk about the Boosters we'll show you what's going on it's real hard to get them all exactly the same because they're all different forms they have different pulley ratios all kinds of stuff so this was our naturally aspirated 4.6 liter 4 valve o 3 Cobra motor without the blower we ran with a 2000 2001 and a Cobra intake manifold made 425 horsepower and 389 foot-pounds of torque and here's what happened after we added the factory Eaton supercharger to the mix obviously we replaced the intake manifold so equipped with the Eaton supercharger obviously both peak horsepower and torque we're up quite a bit 559 horsepower and 533 foot-pounds of torque as you can see nice flat curve nice good power gain this was about in the 1011 pound range and we'll again we'll go over that when we talk about all the different boost curves so this is the factory roots supercharger now let's take a look and see what happened when we added the Kenny bill twin-screw supercharger now that we compared the factory Eaton supercharger on ro 304 cobra crate motor we removed that supercharger and installed Kenny bill twin screw now the Kenny belt twin-screw was a bolt-on deal so utilized the same factory lower manifold that incorporated the inner core and we're and ina water through the inner core on all of these situations except for the Vortech and we'll get to that when we deal with that specifically so here is the kenny bell twin screw all of these were run with the same time and all these had the same peak timing of about 23 degrees so here is our kenny bell twin screw think we got a little bit of maybe belt slippage at the very very top and with most of these especially these bigger blows like this kenny bell the eaton was or the Vortech was the same way the power curve is still climbing so if we would have continued to read this thing it certainly would have continued to make power or if we would have raised the booth which we did later on it would definitely would have made more power but equipped with the kenny bell we were at 617 horsepower and 522 foot-pounds of torque you can see a nice gain as we expected over the n8 combination the Katie Bell works really well nice efficient twin screw design generally considered more efficient than the roots blower especially of this older design on the on the factory Eaton used on this o 304 cobra motor so the twin screw upgrade would work really well now let's take a look and see what happens when we added the Vortech supercharger okay the last supercharger we're going to test is the vortex and Tripucka supercharger this is the power output of our naturally aspirated 4:6 and here's what happened after we added the Vortech supercharger so you can see the centrifugal supercharger has a rising boost curve and that's what the power curve looks like so the gains are not as great down low as we saw from the positive displacement stuff but out at the top at storms pretty hard and would keep climbing if we allow it to continue to rev past sixty five hundred cope with a Vortech it made 667 horsepower and 532 foot-pounds of torque and the fact that the peak horsepower and peak torque both occurred at the same rpm gives us an indication that there's a lot more left do we keep revving this thing now we saw something pretty cool with the Vortech and the way that this thing was designed the way the kit was designed by vortex is they included a fabricated upper intake manifold that basically bolted on to a factory lower intake of the oh three cobra motor so they can utilize the factory air to water intercooler but the problem is that that that plenum basically that was just basically basically to open plenum with the throttle body attached to it has no runner length in it so we did an interesting test later on at a higher boost level and I'm going to include that where we replaced all of that the this fabricated upper intake and the lower manifold and the inner core with just the Cobra intake and it obviously has runner like but does not have an inner core so that was interesting test you'll get to take a look at that in a second after we go through this and I included that to show you what happens when we do add runner like we just did it at a different boost level so it doesn't really compare the other things let's take a look now after running this in typical let's take a look at the turbos the final combination on our boost bash here on this 2003 through 2004 cobra 4.6 liter for valve motor was to install turbos now we installed a twin turbo kit from my good buddy Jimmy and Nathan out there at HP performance in Roswell in New Mexico they were doing the turbo kits back in the day that's not a pair of 57-millimeter turbos on it and with this combination we ran that factory 2000 2001 Cobra intake the same one that we ran on the NA motor it also had an air-to-air intercooler as opposed to the air to water used on the other supercharger stuff so again this is our na 4.6 liter low compression deal now we beat the heck out of this motor and I have to say it kept going I never looked at ring gap I never looked at anything and we ran this thing all the way up over a thousand horsepower on a number of times so here is our HP twin turbo kit with a 257 millimeter turbos peak power was 750 horsepower seven hundred forty nine point nine and peak torque was six hundred and seventy nine foot-pounds of torque as you can see you know big big torque from this thing plenty of power the turbo kit did really well in this combination and again we did not use the factory air to water inner core we use an air to air on this and we tried to keep the boost even with the other superchargers now we now have taken a look at these combinations we really need to compare them so let's start by taking a look at the boost curves of each one and then we'll take a look at the power curves of each one that should give us an idea what's going on but before that I want to jump back right now to the Vortech thing that we ran at a higher boost level and show you what happens when we change the intake manifold because this is stuff we find out while we're testing there's other stuff that happens that we learn from this was pretty cool this is a test we ran when we had the Vortech supercharger on our oh three oh four cobra crate motor and we had turned the boost up quite a bit this was in the sixteen seventeen pound range and the combination was making seven hundred and fifty eight horsepower and 615 foot-pounds of torque that's not really that important for this comparison but I want to show you what happened this is we were running a supercharger and blowing through the fabricated upper intake manifold that Vortech offers and then blowing into the factory air to water intercooler run on that oh three oh four cobra combination here's what happened when we took that whole assembly out including the intercooler and installed the factory 2000 2001 four valve cobra intake manifold now this combination ran with no inner core just the intake manifold so I want you to take a look and see what happened when we did that you can see a big jump in power not just not just at the peak which we definitely did make more power so it made 815 horsepower torque was up to 663 foot-pounds of torque but look at what look what it did everywhere for the entire curve I mean it picked up you know a solid 50 60 horsepower basically all the way through and the reason that it did that there are three things that change during this test one is we got rid of the inner core which is not great because obviously our chart temperature is going to be hotter and would be much better to have an inner core but when we put the new intake manifold on there was no inner core so that was a strike against it but what it had going for it is that we had now runner length from that factory intake manifold and that's what you're seeing here this whole change in the shape of the curve is from actually having a runner length at present because before that that o3o for Cobra lower manifold is basically just open there's no runner in it at all and the fabricated upper intake that they supplied with that vortex supplied with the kid was again just a common plenum that directed the air to that factory inner core so there was no runner link and now that there was this shows of this shows what a big change runner link has on the effect of the power curve so picked up power through the whole thing so imagine how much better this combination would feel now if we added an inner core on top of that this combination would get even better but it shows the importance of runner link and is something that we found out while we are running this test that we had no plan on testing but it's just a way that it turned out sometimes you know stuff happens by mistake it's cool okay to keep things going on this test on our oh three oh four Cobra motor we're going to take a look at the boost curve supplied by each one of the different forms of forced induction we're gonna run the roots blower the twin screw the centrifugal and the turbos and provide the boost curves for each one and then we'll follow that up with the power curves that are associated with those different moose curves so that way you can get pair each one of those and not just as a comparison like we showed before to the NA combination now another point I want to make is that the boost curve supplied by these and the relative power curves can be carried over to any engine family I mean a roots blower acts the same way on this 4.6 liter 4 valve mod motor as it does on any other motor same with the twin screw same with a centrifugal and same with turbos as long as you select the turbos the turbo size incorrectly and I know this because I've run this test which not a lot of people have done and I've also run this test a number of other times I also ran this exact same test on a 1.6 liter B Series Honda application way back in the day they didn't have a twin screw application so I was forced to run it with roots blower a centrifugal and turbos and then I did the same thing with a roots blower centrifugal and turbo on a small-block Ford 302 and trust me this is what they do so on our 4.6 liter Cobra motor this is the roots blower had a slight rising curve in the middle and then a falling boost curve probably because the supercharger sizing was not able to support the power level that we were asking it to support now we could certainly turn the boost up but it basically it would just kind of elevate this whole curve now obviously this supercharger the factory supercharger was designed to feed the factory power output now they left some in reserve obviously but there's a limit to how much you can take these two so now let's take a look at the boost curve supplied by we'll compare this to the one supplied by the kenny bell so the kenny bell because i limited the boost to a maximum of in this case eleven point seven five to twelve pounds i was trying to keep these all exactly the same but as you see we had a slight rise on the katie bell and this is this is really the best that I could do this is as close as I could get them all but because we were limiting the peak boost because the Kenny Bell had capacity and kept rising the boost curve kept rising unlike the Eden which was falling I and just have to adjust these pulleys and try to get as close as I can and because we had to do that with the Eaton it's showing a much better boost response down low and the blower guys the different manufacturer who will argue about this left and right well you needed to have the boost the same at the top that way our our roots blower looks even better or you need to limit it that way the twin screw looks better you know I'm not interested in that this is what we did and this was the test this is what the two curves look like so now let's take a look at the centrifugal so we'll add the Vortech to it and you can see a big change with the Vortech the Vortech only was making about two pounds or so down at 20 500 rpm and was only making peak boost at the very peak rpm so it has a rising boost curve you guys let me know you may or may not like that you may want the instant boost response of the route stuff we know that Vortech and Paxton and ProCharger and all that stuff those guys run really fast and they certainly did back in the day with the these other three Cobras and they're still doing it now so obviously the combination works and the interesting thing is if you take a look over here at 6400 rpm where the crossover was between the Vortech and the Eaton supercharger in terms of boost you would think that that's where the crossover and power is now keep that in mind because that crossover point is important what this will show is that the Vortech combination actually becomes more effective and more efficient than the roots blower does and it happens before that boost crossover so that's kind of cool stuff now let's take a look at the boost curve supplied by the turbos so you can see I try to keep all the booths curves as close as I could at the load end point of 2500 they're making about 4 pounds and then they come up and start rising up and by 4000 we kind of have all of the boosts on these two 57-millimeter turbos and then it just carried straight across because that's what we had our wastegate set at and it worked very well now the other thing to point out with the turbos is that they have kind of an artificial load imposed by the dyno so this response is probably better on the engine dyno that it would be on the chassis dyno or on the street so it may tend to favor the positive-displacement supercharger combinations even more now that we've taken a look at the Boosters let's take a look at the power output okay to finish things off with our test here on our o 304 Cobra motor here are the power curves that are associated with the boost curves that I just showed you this is the Eaton factory Eaton supercharger on the oh three oh four Cobra motor that's the horsepower curve and here is the Kenny Bell and if you remember on the if you look back rewind the video a little bit you can see that the crossover point for that where the candy bells started making more boost than they eaten was much higher than the same crossover point this crossover point here is 46 or 47 hundred rpm and if you take a look at the boost curve it was much later than that what that means is the candy bill started making more power than the eaten before it started making more boost so that's an important point and we're gonna see that again right now when we add the Vortech supercharger see didn't make nearly as much down here as the as the positive displacement blowers but a crossover point where it started making a little bit more boost than the eaton supercharger or a little bit more power than the then they eat and supercharger was 5600 and if you remember the crossover point for where it started where the boost was equal was much much higher than that so that combination started becoming more efficient much earlier than we see just as there as just because of the boost now I think that the Vortech would have been even better if we remember if we took a look at the effect of that intake manifold having more runner length so if we would have run it like we did with the turbos where we ran that long runner intake and an inner core the Vortech would have shown better and unfortunately there's no way to run the other positive displacements within your runner length because they kind of are what they are they run that factory manifold so now let's take a look at the turbo it's our twin 57 s from HP performance and if you take a look at that that kind of shows what turbos are capable of even though the boost was comparable as a matter of fact on the turbo is actually just slightly lower than the others the combination of having the long runner intake it had an intercooler an air to air which was just blew air through in the dyno cell but it had a very good boost curve very very good response certainly after 4000 rpm but the combination of the runner lengths not having parasitic losses associated with driving the blower mean that the turbo stuff made a lot more power than any of the others I mean it was by more than a hundred horsepower on some of these and again all of the airfield you know eleven seven eleven eight timing on all these was the same twenty three degrees total so this is a function of the difference between the you know some of this is going to be parasitic loss some of it is intake manifold also because that's probably I would I would assume 50 or 60 horsepower of this is probably the long run or intake manifold versus the others that don't have that so here's the test all the forms of horse induction you guys can pick the one you want and run with it let's get to our conclusion okay guys so what's the takeaway from this video well for me there's a couple things first off I like the fact that we have choices sure the turbos look great there's no parasitic loss that make the most power but guess what turbos aren't the answer to everything I mean look at the factory stuff they choose that positive displacement roots blower for a lot of factory applications and it works well helps them reach the power level that they need twin-screw even more efficient centrifugal big top-end charge and turbos obviously they always work but I like the fact that we get to choose between all of them if there was only one choice there would be no choices the second thing I like when when the factory builds factory forced induction motors whether it's a supercharger or a turbocharger I love it when they do that look at all the modern stuff a new zr1 new shelby a new Hellcat all of those are factory forced induction motors and I like the fact that they do that because it gives us the ability to upgrade them even further whenever the factory makes a forced induction motor they always leave room on the table for us to make the combination even better way to go factory more and more force induction motors that's what we want our Mertz our older guys thanks for watching let me know if you guys want to see this applied to a different engine family LS guys did do I need to run this test on all the LS applications let me know thanks for watching guys make sure to LIKE share subscribe ring the bell do all that stuff I'll keep the videos coming thanks for watching

Channel: Richard Holdener

Views: 123,057

Keywords: TURBO, BOOST, SUPERCHARGER, ROOTS, CENTRIFUGAL, VORTECH, 4v, Ford mod motor, cobra

Id: h4OHdC3nAFk

Length: 22min 9sec (1329 seconds)

Published: Mon Feb 24 2020