Speaker (Marcus): Wow! (Speaks in a different language – not transcribed). Hello, my name is Marcus. I'm from Osage Nation, Pottawatomi, Delaware
and Puerto Rican from my father's side. Thrilled to be here to have a conversation,
as we… as we close out ‘The Indigenous Day,’ we wanted to have an indigenous conversation. Indian… The Indian in somewhat of a capacity, we will
explain that as it unpacks. But first up, I got to bring my brother on…
on here. Six time Grammy Award winner multi-Platinum,
super accolades all over, halftime show at the Super Bowl; just came back yesterday from
the UK for the Black Eyed Peas album they're working on right now. I'd like to welcome Taboo from the Black Eyed
Peas. Speaker (Taboo): Oh ho! What's up relatives and all the people there
tuned in to this amazing experience. First of all, I want to take time to thank
Sadhguru and his team for making this possible. Marcus MC one thank you for… for moderating
and being part of this. You know, it's… it's been a blessing to
be able to be a voice to indigenous communities. Umm, you know, I am Shoshone, Hopi and Mexican
on my grandfather's side but I've always been an advocate, and… and educating myself more
about my history and my ancestry, and now to be able… to speak on Indigenous People’s
Day; I'm just very honored. And to speak to this amazing man Sadhguru
who's been on an amazing journey to learn about native culture. I want to say thank you again, I appreciate
that. Speaker (Marcus): That's awesome Tab and bring…
speaking of Sadhguru he's a yogi, mystic visionary, named one… one of India's fifty most influential
people, the recipient of three presidential awards. He's touched the lives of millions of… worldwide
through his transformational programs. He’s the author of The New York Times bestseller,
‘Inner Engineering ¬– The Guide to Joy.’ Sadhguru has been an influential voice at
major global forums. He's established the foundation as a non-profit,
the Isha Foundation, volunteer-ran organization operating more than three-hundred centers,
supported by over eleven million volunteers worldwide. That's just the tip of the accolades. If you find… if you can google him, there’s…
there’s like a whole bunch more of… of crazy global accolades to bestow on him. But also, I'd like to introduce him at this
time Sadhguru, if you'd like to make your way in here. Sadhguru: Namaskaram. And it's wonderful to be connecting with both
of you, Marcus and Tab. Well, I must say that I'm sorry that I had
not heard your music. Because (Laughs), you know, my life has been
so busy means three-hundred-and-sixty-five days, I am non-stop on. So there was a time when I used to listen
to western music, I was a kind of a, you know, I grew up in sixties, so rock and roll and
then blues and stuff. But the recent music of anybody's I've not
really heard. But just now, after they told me about you,
then I thought I’ll listen up something, then I heard this song, ‘Fight.’ And I thought that's a great message because
I've been talking about this continuously, how the most important transformative process
for any human being is to be conscious that we are mortal. If we are conscious that we are mortal, what
it means is, we understand that they… we have a limited amount of time and energy. Once we know we have a limited amount of time,
every day, every moment, if we are conscious, the way we will look at our life, the way
we look at every other life and what we would want to do with every other life and our life
will be completely different from what… how people are living right now. Because people are going about as if they're
immortal. That was a great message that you delivered
Tab. I'm sure, I think your crowd must be… your
followers must be very young people all over the world. And I'm… I’m glad that message has been delivered
to the youth of this world. Speaker (Taboo): Thank you. You know, we… our… our music has a…
a huge demographic of you know, from sixty, to fifty to thirty to... (Overlapping conversation). Sadhguru: Oh, you missed out on me eh (Laughs). Speaker (Taboo): I know man. I got to get you on to ‘Where Is The Love
(Sadhguru laughs),’ ‘Where Is The Love’ has a… has a great message, that's our…
our first major hit that… that, uh, you know, the world really gravitated to and had
a strong message, on the heels of 9/11, the tragedy that happened in 2001. But messaging has always been part of our
DNA, you know, Black Eyed Peas, we always make sure that we are socially conscious,
but also spread a message about our surroundings and what's happening. The fight was just a direct reflection of
the… the trauma that I experienced as a cancer survivor. I was diagnosed with cancer in 2014. I did twelve weeks of chemotherapy, I did
holistic healing and also chemo to try to offset the westernized medication. So I fought for twelve weeks, five days a
week, six hours a day. And I'm here, I'm here to tell you (Overlapping
conversation)… Sadhguru: Glad to… glad to see you here,
man. Glad to see you here, healthy and well. We're really glad to see that, I’m telling
you (Overlapping conversation)… Speaker (Taboo): Yeah man, thank you. Thank you. Sadhguru: From myheart I'm saying it's really
wonderful that you're back and healthy. And well again, back at your, what you are
good at (Overlapping conversation). Speaker (Taboo): You know, I kicked its butt
man. And I stood strong with this horrible disease. And I said, “You're not going to take me
out because I got more fight in me.” I'm a warrior. And I'm going to show this… this horrible
disease that I can beat it. So I took on the task of being a voice and
an advocate for you know, cancer awareness. And during my healing, after I beat cancer,
I went on… on a journey myself, kind of like what… what you're on and I went to
Standing Rock and Standing Rock being with my relatives and allies standing in solidarity
with the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe. It was part of my healing process. And it taught me a lot about reconnecting
with my roots, my native roots. It taught me about being a voice and an advocate
for indigenous communities. And that led me to be here speaking to you. And Standing Rock was that pivotal point to
be able to have that energy and that… and tap into that frequency of being a voice. Speaker (Marcus): Wow. You know, actually, if you don't mind, I think
that's a good… one of the things I'd like to make sure we frame as we spend this time
together is that this is going to be a fireside chat. This is a time for us to just to kind of talk
around… (Overlapping conversation). Sadhguru: Eh, only I got fire eh. You guys have no fire (Laughter). (Overlapping conversation). _____ (Unclear) got a fire going (Laughs). (Overlapping conversation)
Speaker (Taboo): You got the water (Laughter). Speaker (Marcus): Nice, water is life. Speaker (Taboo): Water is life – Mní wičhóni. Speaker (Marcus): Yes, ah but right off the
bat. I would… I would like toask Sadhguru about just real
quick… if we could just pull the elephant in the room real fast before we unpack a lot
of our conversational issues is just like... so we were named Indian, even though we're
Indigenous Americans, and… and we had different tribes, there's over five-hundred different
tribes in Amer… in the US. We're not all the same. There's many different diversities, but... And when you hear about indigenous people
of America being called Indian and you're from India (Sadhguru laughs), what… how
does that? How does that hit you? And what… how does that make you feel? Sadhguru: Well, we are glad the guy didn't
land in India. And I’m sorry he landed here (Laughter). Speaker (Taboo): Oh, man. I love that you called him, “The guy (Laughter).” Speaker (Marcus): Nice classic man. So… So that leads to you traveling through…oh
you're right now on a twenty-two-day American tour, kind of where you're traveling, these
different indigenous communities. Can you tell us a little bit about like, what
sparked that and the places that you've been? Sadhguru: I must tell you this, this is in
2003, I was writing a book. So I went… somebody offered me a small cottage,
near the Center Hill Lake, in Tennessee, in… near Cookeville. So I was staying there and working on this. So one day I took out a walk into the forest,
and I just was walking. Ah, well, different people may understand
this in different ways. But I saw something, a kind of a frozen spirit,
just standing there, in such a state of shame, pain, resentment, of ah… this is someone
who held another person, a more important person like a brother but he could not protect
him, he was killed. And he just stood there and froze as a spirit. And the level of shame and resentment and
anger and a complex pain, above all. I have to tell you, in my life, probably that's
been the most painful moment in my life. I've never seen that kind of pain, that man…
that Indian spirit’s you know, the Native American spirit standing there like that. So then I wrote this poem, and I did something
with that force. Shall I read the poem to you? Speaker (Taboo): Please. Speaker (Marcus): Please. Sadhguru: It's called, ‘America’. The brooding darkness of these woods,
Fed upon the native blood, In the twisted tangle of the fallen wood,
The spirit of the fallen Indian stood. Oh brothers! Your identity a mistake. Those who oceans cross did make
The greed for golden land, Laid waste the spirit of wisdom and grace. The children of those who by murdered it take
Are taintless of their forefather’s mistake. But those who lived,
Fed upon the milk of courage and pride, Stand as spirits of defeat and shame,
Oh murdered and the murderous. Embrace me, let me set your spirits to rest. So, this… this poem is kind of saying what,
what happened there. But I'm telling you, that was the most painful
moment in my life. And on that day, I decided I should know more
about what happened. And as I explored this, I realized that this,
you know, this region in Tennessee was called as ‘Trail of Tears.’ And we were looking for a land to set up our
center, and we set it up right there at the beginning of ‘Trail of Tears.’ So where… I've spoken about this in the past, it may
be somewhere on the YouTube. I said, “It is not the beauty of the place
which drew me there. It is the pain of that place which drew me
there.” Because my work, my life is to see that people
can live without this pain. My entire life is just about this, that if
a human being is willing, he can be beyond suffering. There are ways to do that to oneself. Only when people are beyond suffering, and
they know the joy of being beyond suffering, will they walk full stride, because there
is no fear of suffering. And only when there is no pain and suffering
in you, you will not cause that to other people. You know the value of being happy, you know
the value of being joyful and peaceful. This is very, very important for every human
being. People keep asking me,“Sadhguru, what is
the solution for this problem, that problem?” See the problem is just this, everybody is
in pursuit of happiness, they are not happy. They're in pursuit of happiness, if they were
only joyful by their own nature. Just look at every human being, look at yourselves,
I'm saying, on a… in a moment when you're very happy, you are a wonderful human being;
the moment you are unhappy, you are capable of being a nasty human being. This is true for every human being, isn't
it? Speaker (Marcus): Yeah, true. Sadhguru: So, it is that moment in 2003 that
got me interested; since then I've been trying to look at you know, different aspects. I… even me, I had no clue there were five-hundred
nations, okay. In our minds, we think Native American means
Native Amer… okay, we heard a few names of Apache, Sioux, this, that, like this may
be four, five names. Rest of it simply its not there. I'm saying even with people who are well-traveled,
well-read, even with them, nobody knows about this. Only now, in the last few months since I've
been wanting to do this trip, I've been looking at this (Talks aside: Please) I've been looking
at this and I'm amazed at the level of you know, we've been to Cahokia; we are going
to the Chaco Valley. It's amazing as to how much has happened and
from 40,000 years. That's not a… four… Forty millennia is not a joke. Speaker (Taboo):Yeah. Sadhguru: You can’t obliterate a culture
like that. Speaker (Taboo): You know what, unfortunately,
here in the US, even Americans don't know what life on the rez (Referring to Native
American reservation) is like or about indigenous people, or you know, what native people, modern
day native perspectives. They've been so disconnected because Indian
reservations or rez-life is so disconnected from city life. And that's systematically been done, you know,
it's been, you know, years and years of treaties that have been broken… broken throughout
the years. And, you know, speaking about pain, something
that led me to Standing Rock was a, you know, wanting to be of service and lend my art and
my music to be a way to uplift the spirits of the water protectors. Because that movement, Standing Rock was started
by the youth. Speaker (Marcus): Yes. Speaker (Taboo): The youth were the people
that started that movement and we led with prayer. We never led with violence, we led with prayer,
we pray… we lead with… with love. And that was my mission. After I beat cancer, I said, “I want to
go…” something's calling me to go, to be of service and to do, to… to not only
to perform, but also to learn about, you know what life is like on the rez, learn about
my Standing Rock Sioux brothers and sisters, learn about different tribes, learn… the
elders, like speaking to elders and non-native people. And it was just standing in solidarity. And I learned a lot about myself. I learned, you know, for so many years, I've
been caught up in ‘I’ and about me and my career that when I went to Standing Rock
it like… it humbled me and I surrendered ‘I’ to become ‘We’ and ‘Us’, and
how can ‘We’ be of service to everyone, you know, with… with our platform and our
blessings, because, you know, I'm in pop culture because of music. But really, you know, if I just shined a light
on myself, I'm not… I'm not using this blessing correctly the
way that I should. And my grandmother instilled that in me, she
said, “Don't ever forget about your roots. Stay grounded, keep your hands in ma… into
Mother Earth.” And she was the strongest beacon of light
in my life. She was a strong native woman from Jerome,
Arizona. And I think that was her spirit, taking me
to Standing Rock and saying, “Look, this is where you need to be an advocate, you need
to be a voice and always,” you know, “Lend your… your… your voice to this, these
communities that need it.” You know, there's… always say, “The voice
of the voiceless,” because there's not a lot of people in pop culture that happen to
be native, that can actually speak to the world as a… on a global stage. And I'm just using my platform to be able
to give back to indigenous communities. And that's how me and Marcus, you know, we
came together because of that, you know, and I kind of brought him out of retirement, because
he hung up his cleats as he says in music (Sadhguru laughs). Sadhguru: Marcus (Laughs). Speaker (Taboo): He stopped doing music. Sadhguru: This guy is retired, I can’t believe
that (Laughs). Speaker (Taboo): He retired, you know. I was like, “Who are you, Michael Jordan?” So he… he purchased _____ (Unclear) (Overlapping
conversation). Sadhguru: I must tell you, where… wherever
reservations and other places I go, this is one question that's coming to me, “Sadhguru,
how should we… you know, frame our future? What should we do, our youth?” So I've been saying this exact same thing,
I said, “It's very, very important. You are part of the mainstream. At the same time, you don't give up your roots. You must go through modern education, you
must make sure that you're successful, you are part of the mainstream. You don't become an archival people. You are not archive. You are not somebody’s archive, you're not
some kind of an exotic archive to look at. You are living people. You belong to this generation. But at the same time, don't give up the roots
because if you leave your roots, the tree will anyway die.” Okay? Today you can… the leaves may be green and
tomorrow it will become brown that is in no time. But the important thing is roots are nourished. So it's important that in your reservations,
you must educate your children in your language, in your spiritual process, in whatever mysticism
and exploration that was happening and the culture, but at the same time, you must do
well in the modern world, because you are living people, you are not an archive for
somebody to come and look at you like you're from another time. You are not from another time. You are from here, now. Speaker (Taboo): Yeah and you know, it's…
it's a balance for me man, being, you know, having both perspectives, my… my Mexican
side, which is Meshika, which is indigenous, as well, because of my grandfather but my
grandmother was like my mother. So she always spoke highly about her native
roots. And I've always balanced it being a city kid
from Los Angeles but now really wanting to learn and educate myself, and not being afraid
to not know everything. I don't know everything. I'm not the all-knowing Native guy, I'm not
that and I never claim to be. And I humble myself in front of people that
may know more than me, because I just want to learn, I want to be a student of learning
and always trying to… to do better. And if there's moments where I make mistakes
and I don't follow the right protocol and I learn how to bounce back from that, that's
just me being human, and not being afraid to be… to have imperfections and have flaws. And go about mistakes and things that we…
you know, as we learn, and we try to educate ourselves, we're not going to know every single
aspect, but I just man, I'm a student, man. And even with Marcus, I ask him for advice. And I ask him, “Hey, is this the right thing
that I should be doing?” And he's like, “Hey, this is… this is
how we should maneuver. Let me… let me bet it out for you.” Because like I said, I… I'm unapologetic, about not knowing. Because, you know, I was not from the rez,
I didn't grow up on the rez and I never claim to be. But what I do claim is that I'm a student,
and I love learning about my culture, love learning about, you know, being proud about
being Mexican and being native, and learning about the indigenous sides and always wanting
to put that in the forefront, because we forget about our roots a lot of times, and that's
exactly what you were saying. We're in this modern day time, we're in the
US and sometimes we get caught up from being so American that we lose track of our culture
and our heritage. And that's not what I'm… I’m here for. I'm here to educate my kids and so that they
can know, “Look, my dad didn't just leave a catalogue of music. He left a legacy of understanding his culture
and being proud of both of his cultures.” Speaker (Marcus): Wow. Sadhguru: I… ‘I do not know’…‘I do not know’
is the greatest possibility. When you see, ‘I do not know’ the longing
to know, the seeking to know and the possibility of knowing is alive. The moment you say, “I know,” you're finished,
you are a conclusion (Laughter). Speaker (Taboo): Exactly. Ooh yeah. And that is so profound. Sadhguru: Let's listen to the retired man. Speaker (Marcus): Oh, I'm just sitting (Sadhguru
laughs)… I am sitting _____ (Unclear) what you guys
are saying, it's so good. I was going to pick up off from where you
were talking about, as far as the global perception of… of this romanticized view sometimes
comes across as you know, we think Native American or indigenous, you think of this
romanticized picture of us that like there's one fit for all. There was a study, one of the largest studies
that was recently by _____ (Unclear) saying that the number one challenge the indigenous
communities face here in America is not diabetes or access to proper schooling or healthcare. Instead, it was invisibility, us being removed. I loved how you said not to be archival, not
to be a museum piece but to be active in today. What would you… what kind of advice would you give someone
when, when it comes to trying to take control of their narrative and writing their own story? Sadhguru: See, today, if you have to write
your own story, first thing is you must be educated in today's language, today's culture,
today's literature, very, very important. At the same time, as I said, your roots must
be strong to write about that, otherwise, you yourself may get lost. This is… this is a problem in every culture. I'm saying it's not just here in North America,
in every culture people trying to become modern, they lose their very, you know, roots. So keeping this balance is very important. This is why… anyway usually the schools
are only eight months. I think the Native American reservations all
together should come to arrive at some kind of education system of your own, where at
least for two months in a year, every child till they become fifteen years of age attends
this two-month summer schools or whatever, where I know this may be a controversial thing
for me to say and it's not in my place to say this. But I'm saying this out of concern, not out
of some kind of creating some uniform thing. I know every tribe is distinctly unique and
you know, there are… languages are different, cultures are different but still we have to
arrive at some common thing, because cultivating and retaining five hundred ways in today's
world, is going to be extremely difficult. Five ways, at least we can do, maybe three
ways we can do, one way would be easy, but maybe it's not acceptable to everybody. But we must arrive… the community should
arrive at some kind of thing, that some common practices can be merged together and all Native
American children are learning those aspects, maybe a few aspects of their specific tribe,
but the larger aspect of the indigenous people must become common, somebody should do a framework
of this education, at least two months in a year, they must do that and they must be
proud to wear your kind of clothing, your kind of te…you know, whatever, the… which
represents your culture. I'm sure if like you are a musician, you brought
this music now. Suppose you get some designer or some famous
people to wear those kind of clothes and go to important events. So it should become the fashion, I'm saying. It, it should become the fashion in United
States and in the rest of the world to wear Native American kind of clothes and those
aspects, actually without knowing from where it comes. I see in India in many homes, they got dream
catchers. I asked them, “Where did you get this?” They have no clue. They said, “I saw somewhere and I bought
it.” So I'm saying it's very important, certain
products, certain clothes, certain aspects must go. I, I myself bought some, you know, the pottery
now. It's incredible. It’s incredible means I'm telling you, I
have traveled all over the world, what they have done with horse’s hair, and the pottery
in that Lakota Sioux region is unbelievable. I know the Hopis are doing something fantastic
with pottery. But this has not found international market. These are all different ways. Today, it is all about branding. I know you guys know more about branding than
me. But I'm telling you, it's all about branding. I don't think Native American people, their
products, their language, their clothing has been branded properly. I think it needs branding. Speaker (Taboo): Well, can I, can I interject
on that? There's… there's a… there's a certain
level of protocol and respect that comes with appropriating native patterns or clothing
or designs. And I've learned this myself, you know, just,
there's a certain way to approach that conversation. It's a very sensitive conversation and we
have to be empathetic about the intergenerational trauma that has existed throughout the years
of the native people, especially from, you know, getting stuffs, land taken, and, and,
and just like, basically bullied throughout the years, and the genocide that has occurred. I'm not trying to be like a downer or anything,
I'm just trying to keep a one hundred and be as real as possible, because this is a
conversation, and I welcome all conversation. And since you said that, I just wanted to
clarify that there's a certain protocol that I'm learning about, there's a certain way,
you know, when you're using a pattern or design, that sometimes certain tribes or certain,
certain people may get offended by that if you're non-native or if you're not from that
tribe. So that's a very sensitive landmine that we
have to be careful about. And that's something that I always talked
to Marcus about. He's like, “Hey, what do you think about
this?” And he was like, “Now, let me check that
out.” Because, you know, this design goes with this,
this tribe, or this Pueblo design, or this, you know, Northern, Northern Plains design. So it's just learning and, and not wanting
to appropriate it, you know. Sadhguru: See, I, I heard about the sensitivities. Yes, I appreciate that very much. That's why I said maybe it's not in my place
to even say anything about it. But at the same time, my concern is that it's
important that… see, you're not going to educate the world about five hundred tribes,
it's not going to happen. Let's understand this. See, it's like in India, we have 1900 language…19,000
languages. Do you believe that today in the world, we
can make literature out of 19,000 languages; we have reduced it to twenty-four or twenty-six
now, okay. These are the twenty-four official languages
about literature and other things are being spread. But 19,000, how do you do it? So in ancient times, it was all distinctly
separate languages. So we have brought it down to twenty-four. There is a huge loss in that, there is no
question. There's huge loss. Similarly, this five-hundred, if they all
are very proud of maintaining their individual identity – I understand that pride, I know
especially when people have suffered that pride is very important. But for the future generations, I feel it's
important. Some melding needs to happen, because you
cannot present five-hundred different aspects to the world, it's extremely difficult. Yeah… I would say it would be fantastic if all these
tribes or these leaders meet for a conference once a year, and see how can we, you know,
how can we make this a futuristic thing? Don't… (Overlapping conversation)
Speaker (Taboo): I love that. Sadhguru: See what's happened in the past,
nobody can fix the past, all right? We cannot fix what happened yesterday. What we are trying to do is that the future
is good for the next generation of people. That is what is most important. Right now, you talked about the land. See, the land, what happened in the past – well,
there's no point talking about it. But the reservations were made. But now people are selling away the reservation
land and after fifty years, there'll be no reservation because everything is sold out. So it's important that… I've mentioned this before, but I will say
this again, I know this may cause a certain amount of political whatever, but I'm saying
this, that as national parks are protected, reservations must be protected. Now the problem is for economic reasons, a
Native American person wants to sell his land, why should you stop him that’s the argument. I'm saying he should be allowed to lease it
for a maximum of fifteen years. In his life, if he doesn't want to do anything,
he leased it out for fifteen, twenty years, whatever the period they fix, is fine. But the next generation must have the land. If he sells it away, it's gone. It's gone means it's gone. Language is gone, culture is gone, spiritual
process is gone, your ways of doing things is gone. If land goes away, then it's that's it. Okay. That is complete decimation. So land must be kept, it's very important. Even if it is a tenth of the land that you
had earlier, at least that piece of land must be kept for good, it should not be sold. Working for a law like that would be only
possible if all these five-hundred or whatever the significant number, maybe hundred of them,
come together, hold annual conferences and demand what they have to demand. Because once the land is sold, it's finished. Speaker (Taboo): I wish, I wish our leaders
thought like you, man, we're in a “F-ed” up situation, to be honest with you with a
whole leadership of this country. And if we had more people speaking like how
you think, and people's empower, then we would move forward. And I think more tribal communities would
feel inclusive and be part of the conversation as opposed to being separated and divided. And I think more people have to have that,
that initial force in love and lead with love, and try to bring people together that one-world
mentality, because that's how we think. We think one-world mentality, how do we bring
people together? How do we make sure that we lead with love
and not have an opposing force of negative frequencies, I just want to be positive and
bring love to the world. And if it's attach… attached to music, attached
to some conversation and communication, I think that's the best way to approach things. And unfortunately, we're going through a situation
of having an election that is going to come up November 3rd. And we need people to activate, to really
go out there and vote and do make their point. I'm not trying to make this a political thing. But what I do want to make is let people know
how important it is to be a voice and to lead with love so that people can have that same
perspective about “Hey, can we sit in a room and come up with ideas to move forward
and not be so divided and separated?” So that I love that, I commend you Sadhguru
for thinking like that. I love that oneness mentality. We need more of that. Sadhguru: Well, I think this, this whole thing
may be coming from the fear of what's happened in the past, which is very much understandable
because of such terrible things have happened. There may be fear-based approach to this in
the elderly people who… whoever in the last generation. But this generation of people, at least the
laws are now equal, all right? The, the Indian people or the Native American
people are as much citizens of United States as anybody else. That has been leveled out now since 1978 or
whatever. So now that you are this, it's very important
that you must vote because right now, your numbers may not be big enough to make a difference
in the presidential election but at least in the local senate body election, municipal
elections, in this you must participate, because without participating in a democratic process,
you cannot decide or determine your future. You cannot decide… decide your destinies
if you do not participate in the democratic process. Well, the larger election, the presidential
election, you may not have the numbers to determine anything there as such as, as far
as I know, I may be wrong. But I'm saying more than that the local elections,
who’s your… who's your local congressman, who is your senate representative, who is
your municipal representative, this is very important. And I mean the people must participate in
that. If you think putting together a conference
of at least the major elders, in a quiet way we can do it, we don't have to do great publicity
or anything, if we, if you think like that, if you think we can contribute…(Overlapping
conversation) Speaker (Taboo): I would, I would love to
be part of that. Sadhguru: Ahh? Speaker (Taboo): I would love to be part of
that conversation. Sadhguru: If you think we can contribute it
in any way towards that, we will be most willing, because these people need to be freed from
the fears of the past and they must plan for their future. This is very important. Speaker (Marcus):You know, speaking of love,
land, and leadership, and an example of, you know, some of the… where all those qualities
have kind of came together with the Black Hills, you know, that their land has been
monetized and the government has issued that… set aside billions of dollars and the tribe
has not received it, have not taken the check, because they don't… like you said, they don't believe that the
land can be put a price on. And so that leadership, there is the kind
of leadership that is a good example of when you lead with love and respect, the, the power
of the land, speaking of the land that you were just at – I've been to Bear Butte,
I've tied tobacco to the trees, I've spent time there and I know personally the power. If you wouldn't mind expressing a little bit
about what that time was like for you, in those sacred spaces. Sadhguru: Ha, I have too much to say about
this. To make it brief, I will stick to one point. Mato Tipila in my experience, in the entire
North American continent, at least in United States and Canada, I would say is probably
the one most powerful space that you can see in this part of the world. Speaker (Marcus): Wow. Sadhguru: It has a dimension. See, in the yogic dimension, we look at it
as human body, the energetic body of the human being is like the cosmos. It has one-hundred-and-fourteen you know,
energy points. Of these, two are outside the physical structure,
rest are inside. So these one-hundred-and-twelve are made into
seven categories, which are generally in America known as seven chakras and things like that. Of these seven, there is one in the throat
region, which is called as vishuddhi. I would say for ninety-nine percent of the
people, this vishuddhi remains in the seed form; it never sprouts, because it is a power
center. If you know something about Indian culture,
the first yogi in India, was called Adiyogi, which means the first yogi. Actually we have erected a hundred-and-twelve
feet tall face, which is the largest face on the planet, actually. I don't know if you've seen that.You can see
that image in the this thing. It’s a hundred-and-twelve-feet fall… tall
bust. Because he is the first yogi, to honor him
because he gave us the technologies for well-being – how to handle human well-being from within. So in this, he's also called a person who
is powerful in his throat and his throat is blue and there's a snake around his throat. All this imagery. Why this is so is, this dimension, we called
vishuddhi, is one dimension which in the throat center needs maximum amount of skill and capability
to evolve. What I saw… I was there on the full moon night in Mato
Tipila, it was explosive dimension of vishuddhi or the throat center. Anybody who has done any kind of a little
bit of search in… with that energy around, would naturally become… an exploration of
mysticism is very natural. Because this culture, the Native American
culture has not written down anything, everything is oral culture. Now, if one person has realized something,
unless he finds another person in the next generation to pass it on, it kind of gets
lost, which is also a good thing in a certain way because written down distortions will
happen. But when the cu…when the entire culture
went through an upheaval for generations of people, eight, ten… probably eight to maybe
ten to twenty generations went through a whole upheaval, that culture could have been broken. But even now I am saying, especially Tab,
you're a singer, you must spend minimum three days at this Mato Tipila, especially on the
full moon night. I'm telling you, you will realize something,
something tremendously powerful. Anybody who realizes or opens up the throat
center, their ability to connect with life – I'm saying when I say connect with life,
you can touch beyond your physical reach, literally touch. So this dimension of life is very, very rare. There are various centers in the world which
activates different dimensions. But the throat center, being this powerful,
is hardly two, three places in the entire globe, I'm telling you. I was just amazed – the way it is reverberating
with this dimension of life is just absolutely amazing. I do not know how it has happened. Nature has done it. In India, we create our own structures, you
know, we create consecrated structures to reverberate this kind of energy. But what we make is of small proportions. But here it is standing in such a magnificent
form. And this in many ways… I have spoken in detail about this, I don't
want to go into the detail. This in many ways, whether tribes were from
the plains or from the mountains, from the coast, wherever they were, this has influenced
the entire culture in a huge way. Because when I hear the Native American voices,
what I see… see I have, I have no scripture in my head, I don't have any bookish knowledge
or religious knowledge. All I have is, I can feel the place with my
eyes closed. One thing that I see with the voices, the
way they're going about is there's… they're expressing their voices, along with the geometry
of the land. When you produce a sound which is in sync
with the form that you see, then we say this is a mantra, because now the combination of
sound and form are working together, and suddenly it becomes an explosive force. So when I see the Native American music and
the terrain that they were looking at, and making these sounds, not always words, just
sounds because sound is important. Words are made up in our mind, sound is real. Sound is a reverb, and sound has a geometry
of its own. If you utter the right kind of sounds, it
will touch the forms, it will embrace the forms – in this there is tremendous power. This is where I see the entire Native American
spiritual process is rooted. Whether people have physically been there
or not, it doesn't matter. Because even without physically being there,
you can connect with this. If you connect with the land, you can connect
with this dimension. And if you connect the land and the sound,
you will definitely connect with this Mato Tipila because this is not a physical thing. There's an energetic dimension to that. See, we are… we have a physical body, but
without the life energy, what is this physical body, it's just rot. All right? So what is a stone? A stone is nothing unless it has an energetic
body. Here there is an energetic body expressing
this dimension of the throat center in the human system in an extremely powerful way,
which is… I have never seen a place like that in my
life. I've, I've traveled literally everywhere,
I'm telling you. So, that's been one of the most profound things
and Cahokia also was a great thing for us to see because we discovered certain things
that what they have done there, and some things that have gone right, some things that went
wrong there. That's a different aspect. But this Mato Tipila is a must for every indigenous
person, it's a must whether they go there physically or otherwise, they must connect
with this. This is where the power is.The basis of your
culture in some way energetically is here. And with connecting with that could also be
the liberation for the future. Speaker (Taboo): Yeah, that's, that's actually
the good medicine that we speak about frequency and sound. You know when you speak on waveforms in the
way that we… with our technology, when we, we record our music, we use pro tools and
we use sound waves to see the, the different tones, the tonality, the delivery of your
vocal, or even a melody and when you say that, it reminds me of how music and, and, and color
and emotion and all that how it all comes together and has a higher frequency that when
you tap into it, it's like a spiritual connection that I feel when I step on stage. When you said about the, the you know, the
chanting with the prayer song that, that, that you heard, it reminds me of the moment
that I spent at the camp at Standing Rock and listening to the, the sacred drum circle,
and the, the prayer songs and the different frequencies and sounds that I heard, and how
I felt connected to my ancestry even more, because there was a sound that, that it was
very new, but it was so connected, and I felt like I had heard it before. But it was something new, was a new frequency
that I tapped into and it was a higher frequency that I never even knew that I could tap into
spiritually. And, you know, it was, it was, it was native
relatives that took me there, you know, and I wasn't on peyote or any type of hallucinogenic
or anything like that, it was just natural. It was a natural connection with Mother Earth,
the tones, the music, the melody, the chanting, the prayer song, the good medicine, that,
that people always talk about. Sadhguru: See for every sound, if you feed
a sound in an oscilloscope, it gives out the form. That means for every sound, there is a form. Similarly, for every form, there is a sound
attached to it. What I see is they, the ancient people of
this land, are uttering sounds, looking at the land, and literally kinding… kind of
making a map of the land in a sound form, the geometry, or the symphony of the… geometric
symphony of the land and the sound matching together, and which has been the basis of
powering this thing. I think this is one of the reasons why being
here for thousands of years they didn't want to build anything because when in one part
of United States the Chaco Valley is built the way it is built, others could have learned
in no time, in a couple of generations, they would have picked it up. It's (it?) looks like consciously they did
not want to damage the land, because their whole thing was feeling the land with sound
and you know empowering themselves with that. In this process, this Mato Tipila is a significant
influence. Speaker (Marcus): Wow. Now so… Sadhguru: And what a tragedy that it's being
called as Devil's Tower today? Speaker (Marcus): Oh, yeah. _____ (Unclear). So, so, with, with native music and indigenous
music, _____ (Unclear) some other aspects that are, that are considered sacred. I know in any music, there's spirituality
that uses… utilizes consecrated sounds, how would you balance maintaining the integrity
of the sacred sounds while keeping them relevant globally? Sadhguru: See, the power of the sound is not
about ancient or modern. As I said earlier, see we are now we are speaking
English language. Language is a conspiracy between two people. Suppose both you guys start talking in one
of the native languages, I will just gape at you, because it's a conspiracy between
both of you that, “If I utter this sound, this is what it means; If I utter that sound,
that's what it means,” this is how we learn language. So, words are made up by us. But sound is an existential reality. So, this sound if you utter it in a certain
way, it doesn't matter which part of the world you are, what you are, when the sound mix…
when I said you can actually touch people, let us say ten, twenty, fifty-thousand people
are there in your concert. If your… if your vishuddhi power is on and
you utter sound with that, I'm telling you, you can physically touch every one of them. And that experience, no matter who the hell
they are, where they come from, they will not miss it, and they will never forget it. Speaker (Taboo): Wow. Yeah, I feel that with hip hop culture as
well. You know, like me and Emcee One can say a
line and you can like… just because you know hip hop culture Emcee One, you can complete
the line. Like if I said, “The hip, the hop, the hippidy
hip hop, you don't stop…” Speaker (Marcus): Rock to the bang, bang boogie. Speaker (Taboo): So, _____ (Unclear) your
boogie to the boogie there, boogie that be. Speaker (Marcus): Hey! Speaker (Taboo): Right? What you hear is not _____ (Unclear), I am
rocking… Speaker (Marcus): …to the beat (Sadhguru
laughs)! Speaker (Taboo): There it is. Hip hop culture has been immersed with sounds,
rhythm, rhyme patterns, cadences, and that's the beauty of not only our personal connection
with our culture, but also this, this musical culture called hip hop, and that's the thing
that brought us together – is because we love you know, rapping and break-dancing and
DJing, and we appreciate the elements of hip hop. That's the reason why I think language, we
don't need to like a kid from Japan that doesn't speak English, he could be a B-boy, and we
could speak on the dance floor and just breakdance and have that same camaraderie and, and share
that same language in that frequency on the dance floor, or Emcee, he knows cadence, he
doesn't necessarily have to be rapping in English, he could be rapping in Spanish. And you just know cadencing and hip hop culture
has that same type of connection. Speaker (Marcus): Like a frequency. Speaker (Taboo): It is frequency. That's why I always talk about frequency,
man. Sadhguru: Tell me when you're going live next
time, maybe I'll be there eh (Laughs). Speaker (Taboo): Sure man. Maybe we could do something together (Sadhguru
laughs). We have like a cool seminar in a hip hop show
at the same time, and we'll have like, you know, a cool performance and have like a Q&A
thing like right now, so that we can take this on the road and do some cool collaboration,
because that, that's, this is kind of new for me, man, to be able to speak to an amazing
person like yourself, you know, I'm a hip hop kid. And yes, I'm native and Mexican. But at the end of the day, I love hip hop
culture. And I love breakdancing and emceeing and songwriting
and DJing. And for me to be having this conversation
with you, it's just another notch on my belt of amazing moments in my life. So, you know, and I'm not trying to, you know,
like, juice you up or anything but this has been amazing, man. Um, it's very informative. I'm learning a lot. I'm listening. One thing is to listen and to absorb the information
and welcome the information. And that's something that's important to me
is I want to be a student of the world and listen to perspective. And, and, and, you know, sign… sound-minded
people like yourself, who are, you know, exploring the US and exploring indigenous communities,
and I really appreciate them and we know… we need more people like yourselves and we're
very glad to have this conversation. Sadhguru: I will send you two books. One is ‘Inner engineering,’ another is
‘Death.’ Okay, I released a book called, “Death:
The inside story.” But for Marcus, I will send you… send him something more crazy because he needs
something more crazy (Laughter). Speaker (Taboo): Oh, Man! Sadhguru: You're also in Los Angeles, Marcus? Speaker (Marcus): I'm actually in Oklahoma,
Oklahoma City. Sadhguru: Okay, hey, we are passing through
Oklahoman sometime in the next week. Speaker (Taboo): Got to connect! Speaker (Marcus): We're going to have to,
we're going to have to connect then. Speaker (Taboo): You know, something I would
like to speak on, it’s been there and we're celebrate... I know, it's almost, you know, nine… ten
o'clock. But we celebrate Indigenous Peoples’ Day
today in Los Angeles. And I was very honored to be part of the first
Indigenous Peoples’ Day celebration in 2018. My group, Black Eyed Peas, we performed along
with our mentors Redbone PJ Vegas and his dad, Hmm, Pat Vegas. And we had all these amazing native artists,
on the Tango land, the tango people were represented, the Gabrielino people represented from…
from Los Angeles. And we had all these, these beautiful energies
there for one cause. And that was to celebrate and honor indigenous
people from Los Angeles, but also around the world. And we abolished the Columbus Day here in
Los Angeles. So, to be able to be participating in… Indigenous People… Peoples’ Day, three years in a row. And unfortunately, this year, because of COVID,
we weren't able to have the festival or the concert. But I just wanted to say thank you for acknowledging
Indigenous Peoples’ Day, because, you know, a lot of people don't really know what that
means. And for us, we're still trying to get the
message out, we’re… we're trying to have more states and cities come along and… and…
and see how we can honor the first people of this land. Sadhguru: We are making about ten to twelve
hours of video of this travel, so, many aspects of indigenous life. And we will make sure that this reaches the
world to whatever extent it can and we will give you access to this also so that you can
do what you can because this is very important that people should know about a civilization,
which has existed for over fifteen millennia, is not a small thing. You can’t just forget about it just like
that. Speaker (Taboo): Yeah, yup. We invisible no more man; we were trying to
you know, be the, the bridge between modern day, you know, people and allies and relatives
to be able to honor and celebrate our ancestors and our rela… relatives from the past. And that's important. And this is something that for me as a forty-five-year-old
man and I have my own kids and I have my wife and you know I try to, try to be as open minded
and, and as informative about this modern day life that we're living, but also like,
educating my kids about the past, because they don't teach that in American textbook,
they don't teach that in American studies about the history of Native people, they just,
they give you this facade about, you know, pilgrims and Native people on Thanksgiving,
and that's what you learn about. So unfortunately, you know, we don't have
access in, in, in American schools and in, in academics to have that type of reality
and, and historical, actually, real conversations. And that's something that I'm trying to educate
my kids about Thanksgiving and this misconception about pilgrims and Native people (Sadhguru
laughs). Sadhguru: Tab, one important thing, one important
dimension, which could be very major thing in the world, particularly in California,
and everywhere else in the world now is – see, today, everybody's talking about ecological
concerns and environment. But environment is only in a textbook, or
its (it?) lives in a school or a university. But the significance of Native American people
is it lived in their hearts, environment was in their hearts – till this happens, till
this happens to this generation and the next generation, unless ecological concerns are
living in our hearts, not in textbooks as some abstract science, till that happens,
there is no solution. So, this is one line of Native American life,
which can be brought forth in a very strong way. And everybody will stand up for this because,
entire world knows now this needs to happen. I am very much a part of various aspects of
United Nations agencies doing this, we are partners with them. And we have major ecological movements in
India, one of the largest in the world called, “Rally for Rivers” where one-hundred-and-sixty-two
million people participated in this moment of thirty days, hundred-and-sixty-two million
people. Okay, that's a largest moment ever, for ecological
aspects. So, bringing out Native American culture,
as the most eco-friendly way of living, not only of living, the most important thing is
they carried it in their hearts, not in textbooks, not as an abstract science. This one angle could make the entire indigenous
population very relevant for today and tomorrow. Speaker (Marcus): Beautiful. Speaker (Taboo): Yeah. Hey, we always talk about that… Marcus, we will talk about being city like
in the city life, and you know, being me, I was born in East Los Angeles in, in a predominantly
Mexican-American community, where there wasn't a lot of native connection. And my grandmother was the only type of connection
that I had to my native roots. Because like I said, I was born in the city. So, I had to go on my own journey to figure
out, “Hey, what I come from?” asking questions, you know, wanting to find
out about Jerome, Arizona, where my grandmother was from, find out about the roots. And even to this day, people try to question
as you call it, _____ (Unclear) the Indianess, right, they try to question and, and say,
“Well, you know, what…” there's this thing called blood quantum, that they tried
to dissect and try to say, how much blood you know, quantum do you have? Or how much native blood do you have? And in actuality it's like, it shouldn't matter
about a blood count or, or, you know, something that, that a lot of people get so caught up
in, and it's like, like, for me, I'm like, trying to… trying like I said, I'm trying
to be a student and trying to learn as much as possible. And I don't get caught up in a lot of it. But sometimes I have to call Emcee One and
be like, “Hey, Emcee One, is this… is this noise that I need to, to, to unpack?” And he's like, “No, you just got to can't
mute the noise, man.” Because you're going to get hit left and right
with all this nonsense, and there's going to be people that are going to try to bring
you down, there's going to be people that are going to support you, there's going to
be people that are envious, because you are, all you want to do is help them be a voice. And that's something that's very important
to me. So, you know, I think Marcus has been one
of those people that that's a go-to person. Because like I said, being a city kid, not
knowing everything about my native roots for wanting to learn, I do ask those questions. And I have a lot of mentors, and I have a
lot of people that inspire me, and keep championing me to gain more knowledge. Speaker (Marcus): What I appreciate about
you Tab is your willingness to… to be a student and, and we're all students because
I'm not an indigenous expert, no one, none of it, we're all on a journey. And that's always impressed me that your…
your stage, that your platform you could if you want it to feel like, like we said earlier,
you could have already said, “I know,” instead of “I don't know.” So, with these last two minutes, we got to
split it up between you guys. I realized there's between the two of you
guys there could be countless people watching this and also with the, with the, with the
recordings to come. So, also disclaimer, “I do believe that
Sadhguru, you were invited to the Bear Butte, and then that place that you described is
so powerful, you were there on invitation if I if I'm correct. And so this last couple minutes, what would
you want to say to those that are watching as we leave them with your final message,
your final thought?” Sadhguru: See, what I see is a there is a
whole lot of people are soaked in a certain level of defeatism you know, kind of resentment
and anger. No, this should go, we must come out of this
strong and well, because you are the original people in this land, there is a value for
that. And it's a long culture behind millennia of
culture. So as a part of this, I'm seeing, we must
offer tools for them to walk out of this mental blocks that they have. So as a part of this, I am announcing now
that we have what is called as Inner Engineering Online program. So, we are… for anybody who is indigenous
people, we won't check your blood, this thing, if you say you are an indigenous person, we
will give seventy-five percent discount; that twenty-five percent we are charging just to
get commitment, so that they don't take it too easy, it is a limited amount of this thing
– twenty-five percent, at twenty-five percent of the cost, I will offer this Inner Engineering
Online program, it is just they have to go to innerengineering.com, and they will know
all the detail, they can acc… It's a seven-session thing. It's a self-empowering program. More than anything, it's about engineering
yourself in such a way that your mind, your thought, your emotion, your body is not an
impediment in your life. Your body and mind should work for you. Unfortunately, for most people, their own
minds work against them. So, to release them from this, I want Native
American people to go through this. And for this purpose, I will offer a seventy-five
percent discount so that all the youth must go through this, because they are the future,
and they should be able to present this culture in a very proud but in a way that it merges
with everything else in the world, not sitting separately. Sitting separately is not going to help. We must ma… See, Mahatma Gandhi said this, “We must
open the windows and doors of our home where the breeze from every other culture should
pass through our home. But it should not blow away our home.” That's very important. But it every cu… breeze from every culture,
every nation, every religion, whatever there is, must pass through our home, but it should
not blow away our home. That is what I would say to the indigenous
people. It's important. You allow the today's… whatever the culture
of today, whatever is happening in this country and the rest of the world, you must embrace
that, at the same time, not blow away your own teepee, it's very important. Speaker (Taboo): All right, so I'm going to
say this, and I'm going to speak from the heart, because, you know, I'm very thankful
to all the viewers and everyone that tuned in. And I'm looking into this camera, and I'm
saying, “Thank you Sadhguru,” for even thinking of me to be part of this conversation. Because you could have went (gone?) with anybody. And something, you know, those higher power
that brought us together to have this conversation, I believe in divine intervention. And this is something very divine, because
just speaking to you, as, as the chief said, I saw your spirit. And I saw how much you illuminate and how
amazing, how much power you have to bring people together, to show love, to show empathy,
to show respect for all these cultures and different… and wanting to learn. You know, I feel like although you have so
much wisdom, you two are students, and I love that about you, I love the humbleness, I love
the, the vulnerability of you as well, because with all this wisdom, I see a sense of humility
with you, and I appreciate that. Because sometimes you meet people when they're,
they’re, you know, sometimes they're on higher frequencies, and you can't really connect
with them. But the conversation was at the same level. I learned, you spoke, I spoke and we had an
amazing ping pong session as they call it. Marcus, thank you for being a moderator. Thank you for being a brother. And I appreciate you asking those questions. And what I would like to leave this conversation
with is a blessing, a blessing from creator to all of you. Please love one another, respect one another
and make sure that you lead with love at all times. This is important. We need that more than now, because ‘hate,’
we can't have that, we have to have support, appreciation. And I think if we lead by example, I think
other people will appreciate and lead with you. And, and you know, being a voice to indigenous
people, it's been a blessing because I learned a lot of ways to educate, but also to inspire. And I think this conversation was an educational
conversation, but I also got inspired to continue leading, to continue being a voice. So, I'll leave you with that, and I'll leave
you with one more thing. The road to success is always under construction,
and we are the architects and the pioneers of that path. Love you guys. Sadhguru: Tab, we'll send you a link to the
innerengineering.com. Please explore that possibility. And we will be breezing through Oklahoma and
we will clash with Marcus of course (Sadhguru laughs). Speaker (Marcus): Yes, definitely. Speaker (Taboo): Thank you guys. Speaker (Marcus): Thank you very much. Sadhguru: Thank you very much. Speaker (Taboo): Thank you so much. Wonderful. Sadhguru: Wonderful. Thank you.
