♪♪ amna: A deal on the debt ceiling and the 2024 presidential race ramps up. At the end of this is a week in politics, we turn to the analysis of Capehart and Abernathy, Jonathan Capehart and Gary Abernathy. Welcome to you both. We have avoided economic disaster with the debt ceiling deal. People on both sides of the deal seem unhappy in some way, which as the saying goes, probably means they did something right. From the democratic point of view and the president's point of view, was it a good deal? Jonathan: It was in that the bill that passed as part of the debt ceiling had lots of drastic cuts to social programs and a lot of the president's priorities. This deal does away with a lot of those things. They had to make concessions, work requirements and other things, but when you look at the details of the bill, particularly the one where it says congress has to go through the appropriations process, has the 12 appropriations bills and if you don't do it by the end of the fiscal year, there will be a continuing resolution and it will be set at fy 22 or 23 levels good that's a huge victory for a democratic president dealing with a Republican house. Amna: Gary, how do you see this? Was this a good deal for the Republicans to make? Gary: I agree it was a good deal for president Biden. It was also a good deal for Kevin Mccarthy. Particularly president Biden. Not necessarily because of the details but because a deal was made, a truly bipartisan deal. A lot of times we call things bipartisan because they pick off one or two or three votes of the other party, usually Republicans and people say that was a bipartisan vote. This was I any definition a bipartisan vote in the house and senate across the board and that's something president Biden can and will take a lot of credit for and rightfully so. It's been a long time. I'm old enough to remember when these kind of things happening congress more regularly. I was a very small child. [Laughter] But it was kind of nice to see that again. For Kevin Mccarthy, he delivered not just a majority of a majority of Republicans, he delivered a super majority of Republicans in the house. A good day for both Mccarthy and Biden. Amna: There were a lot of questions about house speaker Mccarthy would be able to handle the far right neighbors of his conference. In particular when you heard him talking to reporters after the bill passed the house, it told you everything you needed to know about how he felt in the moment. >> This is fabulous. This is one of the best nights I've in here. I thought it would be hard, I thought it would be almost impossible just to get to 218. There was a whole new day here. Amna: Is that a man newly empowered, no longer worried about being removed from speakership? Jonathan: I think so. This is how I know speaker Mccarthy is extremely happy. I don't recognize that voice. That voice is three or four octaves higher than I have ever heard it. Let me give him his props. The guy got the gavel after 15 ballots. Everyone underestimated him and said he was going to be led around by the far right and the house freedom caucus, and to Gary's point, the fact that the bill passed the house with a super majority of Republicans, that over 300 votes with more Democrats voting for it than anticipated or expected, that is a big win for bipartisanship but I think it is a political win for the speaker that should put to rest this idea that this is a guy who is literally a vote away from being ousted. Amna: Do you agree? He has the same narrow majority, the same members unhappy with the deal earlier remain unhappy with it. Gary: I've got one name for you -- Jim Jordan. He voted for this bill. When he gets Jim Jordan to vote for this bill, the founder of the freedom caucus, I believe, it's hard for other freedom caucus members to really mount much of a defense against Kevin Mccarthy. I agree, I think he strengthened himself and I don't think Republicans have the stomach right now for the tour moral -- turmoil they went through in January when they elected him. Amna: What does this say about the process more broadly when you take a step back? That's the big question now. Coming out of 2011, a lot of conversations about lessons learned and the Republican take away is this is how we have leverage and do this every time. Did negotiating with Republicans further empower the opposition to do this every time? Jonathan: They might think so but you can't continue to hold the American economy and the global economy hostage to try to get through your fiscal priorities that you can get through in the normal appropriations process. Amna: They came very close. Jonathan: But they didn't succeed. I think going forward the president should investigate whether he can use the 14th amendment, do a filing. Let's test the question. I also think after the next election if there is a democratic house and the president wins reelection and the senate remains in the house of Democrats -- in the hands of Democrats, there should be a debate about whether the debt ceiling should be done away with altogether. Honestly I think it should. We should do away with the hostagetaking. Amna: Gary? Should we do away with the debt ceiling? Gary: It's an interesting question because it is such an exercise in brinksmanship every time we have it. Let's be clear, nothing in politics is beyond dealmaking. Some people want to say hostagetaking. That happens on both sides. Every bill is an ability to horse trade and so on. Republicans were very smart, I'm going to say Mccarthy was very smart, in knowing how far to go. You could push it too far. Who would have gotten blamed for this not happening? As always, it would've been the Republicans blamed for this falling apart and the debt ceiling not being lifted and all of these things that would have happened as a result of that. But listen, every opportunity, everything in politics is an opportunity to make a deal and this was good. Republicans knew how far they could go. Joe Biden, a dealmaker from the senate, was never a verse from the beginning from saying we will have to make a deal. He had memos from his party saying don't deal with them at all, do a clean bill, and he said no. He likes the art of making deals and that is ok. Amna: Let's turn to 2024 because we expect more presidential campaign announcements on the Republican side next week, including Mike pence, Chris Christie and Doug burgum. They will join the field of candidates that includes Ron Desantis, Nikki Haley, Asa Hutchinson, Tim Scott and Donald Trump. Jonathan, take a look at that entire field and how do the new candidates set themselves apart? Jonathan: Chris Christie, easy. I know what lane he is in. He is that car in the motorcade that is the demolition car. Motorcades have a car on the lookout for anything trying to disrupt a presidential motorcade. That is the car that has for that destructive car. That is Chris Christie. He will be in the campaign and on the debate stage taking wacks at Donald Trump. As someone who knows Donald Trump well, ran against him, worked with him, did debate prep with him before, so he knows them really well. It's the perfect way to take him down. Former vice president Mike pence, I don't know what his lien is. He's running in a party that has been remade in the image of the man who is a cited insurrectionist who ran through the capital screening hang Mike pence. I don't know where his votes will come from. Amna: Gary, is there a lane for Mike pence in this Republican primary? Gary: I agree that there is probably not. I also disagree that I don't think there is a lane for Chris Christie either. This week we were asked to look at the Republican field. A lot of readers don't think they are right thinking but right-leaning columnists, but most of us agreed that the Maga lane is the only lane. It's just a matter of can anyone other than trump be the guy standing at the end? I think it will come down to trump versus Santos -- de San tis. Can Desantis make the case that he is Maga enough to build the following and move them away from Donald Trump? Because Desantis is definitely more electable in November. He's got to make the case, you may love Donald Trump, but he cannot win in November. I think that's what this primary is going to come down to. Amna: Jonathan, there is a long way to go, cannot say this enough. But Gary is right and we've all seen it in the polls, trump and Desantis made the front runners for now. How are the Democrats looking at this, and in particular, how is the campaign of president Biden looking at, as we've seen some of the presidential matchups so far, recent polls, how president Biden would fare against former president trump, and there was one showing him against Ron Desantis as well. We should note that the margin of error is about 2.3%. How are Democrats looking at that? Jonathan: I think Democrats are still champing at the bit to run against Donald Trump again. I think the president is clear eyed and focused that no matter who his Republican challenger is going to be, probably former president trump, the mission is to remind people about who we are as Americans and what we stand for as Americans, no matter Republican or Democrat. We stand for the rule of law and treating each other with respect and kindness and dignity and respect the freedom and liberty of all of us. I think as long as he stays on that message, no matter who he is running against, he stands a better chance of being reelected. Amna: Jonathan Capehart and Gary Abernathy, thank you for joining us today. ♪♪