Special Report: Trump pleads not guilty to charges that he tried to overturn the 2020 election

HAS JUST LANDED AT REAGAN AIRPORT IN WASHINGTON. HE WILL NOW HEAD TO APPEAR IN FEDERAL COURT FOR THE ARRAIGNMENT TO ANSWER FOR THE FIRST TIME. THE CRIMINAL CHARGES STEMMING FROM THE SPECIAL COUNSEL'S INVESTIGATION INTO ATTEMPTS TO OVERTURN THE 2020 ELECTION. THE FORMER PRESIDENT TRAVELING TODAY FROM BEDMINSTER TO WASHINGTON. THIS WAS NOT QUITE THE RETURN TO WASHINGTON THIS FORMER PRESIDENT HAD ENVISIONED FOR HIMSELF. THIS IS DONALD TRUMP'S THIRD CRIMINAL INDICTMENT. BUT THESE ARE THE MOST SERIOUS CHARGES THAT HE OR ANY OTHER PRESIDENT HAS EVER FACED. THE FORMER PRESIDENTS MOTORCADE WILL NOW TAKE HIM FROM REAGAN AIRPORT RIGHT THERE IN WASHINGTON, OF COURSE, THROUGH THE STREETS OF THE CAPITAL TO THE BARRETT PRETTYMAN, US FEDERAL COURTHOUSE. THAT'S JUST BLOCKS FROM THE WHITE HOUSE AND THE CAPITOL. ABC NEWS HAS LEARNED THAT ONCE HE IS THERE, HE WILL BE FINGERPRINTED BUT NOT PHOTOGRAPH OR HANDCUFFED. AND THEN HE WILL TAKE THE ELEVATOR TO A SECOND FLOOR COURTROOM TO BE ARRAIGNED BEFORE A JUDGE. AS YOU ALL KNOW, WE HAVE BEEN REPORTING HERE, IT WAS JUST TWO DAYS AGO, LATE TUESDAY, SPECIAL COUNSEL JACK SMITH FILED HIS INDICTMENT OF THE FORMER PRESIDENT ALLEGING TRUMP KNEW HE LOST HIS REELECTION BID BUT WAS DETERMINED TO REMAIN IN POWER AND THAT HE ALLEGEDLY ENGAGED IN A MONTHS LONG CONSPIRACY OF LIES AND ACTIONS TO CHANGE THE OUTCOME OF THE ELECTION. TRUMP FACES FOUR FELONY CHARGES. HE WILL ANSWER TWO TODAY. COUNT ONE, CONSPIRACY TO DEFRAUD THE UNITED STATES. COUNT TWO, CONSPIRACY TO OBSTRUCT AN OFFICIAL PROCEEDING. ALSO OBSTRUCTION OF AN ATTEMPT TO OBSTRUCT AN OFFICIAL PROCEEDING AND THEN COUNT FOUR RIGHT THERE, CONSPIRACY AGAINST RIGHTS. NOW THIS INVOLVES DENYING VOTERS RIGHTS TO HAVE THEIR VOTES COUNT, TO HAVE THE ACTUAL RESULTS CERTIFIED THERE IN WASHINGTON. NOW, THE INDICTMENT CLAIMS THAT THE FORMER PRESIDENT, QUOTE, TARGETED A BEDROCK FUNCTION OF THE UNITED STATES FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. THE NATION'S PROCESS OF COLLECTING, COUNTING AND CERTIFYING THE RESULTS OF THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION. THE INDICTMENT ALSO DESCRIBES SIX UNNAMED COCONSPIRATORS, WHO WE SHOULD POINT OUT AT THIS POINT ARE NOT FACING CHARGES, BUT OF COURSE, THAT COULD ALL CHANGE AS WE MOVE FORWARD HERE. THE INDICTMENT ALLEGES THAT TRUMP AND THE COCONSPIRATORS CREATED FAKE ELECTORS IN, QUOTE, SEVEN TARGETED STATES AS COMPELLED, QUOTE, THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO CONDUCT SHAM ELECTION CRIME, INVESTIGATE MENTIONS THAT HE PRESSURED VICE PRESIDENT PENCE TO, QUOTE, REJECT LEGITIMATE ELECTORAL VOTES AND SENT SUPPORTERS, QUOTE, TO THE CAPITAL TO OBSTRUCT THE CERTIFICATION PROCEEDING AND TO EXERT PRESSURE ON THE VICE PRESIDENT. AGAIN YOU'RE LOOKING AT LIVE PICTURES. THIS IS THE MOTORCADE TAKING THE FORMER PRESIDENT NOW FROM REAGAN AIRPORT WHERE HE JUST TOUCHED DOWN A SHORT TIME AGO TO THAT FEDERAL COURTHOUSE IN WASHINGTON, D.C. TODAY'S FILING IS, OF COURSE, THE SECOND FEDERAL CRIMINAL INDICTMENT STEMMING FROM JACK SMITH'S MONTHS LONG INVESTIGATION IN. AND WE ALWAYS TRY TO REMIND EVERYONE HERE THAT THESE WERE GRAND JURIES, JURORS WHO LOOKED AT THE EVIDENCE GATHERED IN BOTH OF THESE CASES AND HANDED UP INDICTMENTS IN JUNE. DONALD TRUMP PLEADING NOT GUILTY TO WHAT IS NOW A 40 COUNT INDICTMENT INVOLVING HIS HANDLING OF CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS AFTER LEAVING THE WHITE HOUSE LAST WEEK, THE SPECIAL COUNSEL FILED WHAT'S CALLED A SUPERSEDING INDICTMENT THAT ESSENTIALLY ADDITIONAL CHARGES, ADDING THREE MORE CHARGES AGAINST TRUMP, ALLEGING TRUMP HIMSELF GOT ON THE PHONE THAT AN AIDE THEN SECRETLY TRAVELED TO MAR A LAGO, WALKED THROUGH A TUNNEL WITH A FLASHLIGHT WITH MAR A LAGO'S PROPERTY MANAGER, TO FIND THE SURVEILLANCE OUTSIDE THE STORAGE ROOM WHERE THE CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS HAD BEEN PLACED TO ERASE WHAT WAS ON THE SERVER WERE ALSO CHARGES FOR THAT AIDE AND THE PROPERTY MANAGER AT MAR A LAGO. ALSO FOR THE ALLEGED EFFORTS TO DELETE THE SURVEILLANCE, WHICH, BY THE WAY, BECAUSE OF EMPLOYEE NUMBER FOUR IN THAT SUPERSEDING INDICTMENT, WHEN THAT EMPLOYEE WAS APPROACHED ALLEGEDLY SAYING, I DON'T BELIEVE I HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO THIS. THAT'S WHY IT'S BELIEVED AIDE JACK SMITH HAS SURVEILLANCE. ACTUALLY, THAT WAS NOT DELETED FROM MAR A LAGO. WE SHOULD MENTION THE TRIAL IN THAT CASE IS SET TO TAKE PLACE IN FLORIDA NEXT SPRING. THAT'S NEXT MAY, RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS RACE FOR PRESIDENT. BUT TRUMP ALSO FACES CRIMINAL CHARGES IN A SEPARATE CASE IN NEW YORK CITY. AS YOU KNOW, IN MARCH, A MANHATTAN GRAND JURY INDICTING HIM ON 34 FELONY COUNTS OF FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS. THOSE CHARGES STEM, OF COURSE, FROM HUSH MONEY PAYMENTS BEFORE THE PIVOTAL 2016 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION. SO LET'S CAREFULLY TAKE YOU THROUGH WHAT WE'RE GOING TO WITNESS HERE AS A COUNTRY TODAY. WE'RE WATCHING THE MOTORCADE NOW TAKING THE FORMER PRESIDENT TO WASHINGTON, AND WE HAVE BEEN ON THE AIR HERE AT ABC COVERING EACH ONE OF THESE INDICTMENTS AS BUT LEGAL OBSERVERS WATCHING THIS CASE SAY THIS IS THE ONE THAT MAKES HISTORY, NOT THAT THE OTHERS AREN'T HEAVY, THAT THE OTHERS AREN'T IMPORTANT. BUT THIS ONE IN ALLEGES A FORMER PRESIDENT FOR THE FIRST TIME IN OUR HISTORY, HE TRIED TO OVERTURN AN ELECTION THAT HE KNEW HE LOST. I WANT TO BRING IN OUR CHIEF JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT, PIERRE THOMAS, WHO WAS WATCHING ALONG WITH ME RIGHT HERE AT THE DESK IN NEW YORK WITH THE REST OF THE TEAM. AND PIERRE JACK SMITH'S MOTORCADE. WE ALSO LEARNED JUST MOMENTS AGO MAKING ITS WAY TO THE COURTHOUSE. IT'S BELIEVED THE SPECIAL COUNSEL WILL BE RIGHT THERE IN THAT COURTROOM TODAY JUST LIKE HE WAS IN FLORIDA. >> WE ANTICIPATE THAT HE WILL BE IN THE COURTHOUSE TO WITNESS THE PROCEEDING AND TO IN SOME CASES, LOOK DONALD TRUMP DIRECTLY IN THE EYE. DAVID, SUFFICE IT TO SAY THIS IS THE MOST CONSEQUENTIAL CASE THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT HAS EVER BROUGHT. AND IT WAS NOT TAKEN LIGHTLY, ACCORDING TO MY SOURCES, THAT THE SPECIAL COUNSEL HAD TO COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT DONALD TRUMP WAS A CRIMINAL PRESIDENT, THAT AT THE END OF HIS PRESIDENCY, FACED WITH LOSING, HE GOT INFORMATION THAT HE LOST AND THE SPECIAL COUNSEL AND AS YOU POINTED OUT ON TUESDAY, LOCKED IN ON THE NOTION THAT DONALD TRUMP WAS ALLOWED TO MAKE FALSE CLAIMS. HE WAS ALLOWED TO GO TO COURT TO MAKE THE CASE THAT HE WON. BUT THE MOMENT THE MOMENT THAT HE USED THE POWER OF THE PRESIDENCY TO TRY TO STOP THE CERTIFICATION OF HIS RIVAL JOE BIDEN, TO BECOME PRESIDENT, THAT THIS BECAME ILLEGAL. >> AND THAT IS A KEY POINT HERE, PIERRE, BECAUSE WHAT THE SPECIAL COUNSEL IT WOULD SEEM, IS TRYING TO DO HERE IS TO TAKE AWAY A KEY PART OF WHAT DONALD TRUMP'S DEFENSE WILL LIKELY BE, THAT HE IS CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECT CITED THAT SPEECH IS PROTECTED. BUT JACK SMITH ESSENTIALLY IS SAYING IN THIS SPEAKING INDICTMENT IS THAT YOU'RE RIGHT, YOUR SPEECH IS PROTECTED. YOU CAN EVEN MAKE FALSE CLAIMS. BUT THE WAY YOU FIGHT IT IS THROUGH LAWFUL MEANS. AND HE SAID, WHICH IS WHAT THE FORMER PRESIDENT DID, AND WAS UNSUCCESSFUL REPEATEDLY. AND IN MANY OF THOSE CASES WITH TRUMP APPOINTED JUDGES. ABSOLUTELY KEY THE FACT THAT FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP WENT TO COURT AFTER COURT AND WAS REBUFFED. >> AND THE OTHER THING THAT SOURCES ARE POINTING OUT WHEN YOU READ THE INDICTMENT, THAT THE SPECIAL COUNSEL TAKES GREAT CARE, GREAT CARE TO EXPOSE THE NOTION THAT DONALD TRUMP WAS PURSUING THE NOTION OF WIDE SCALE FRAUD IN STATE AFTER STATE AND IN TIME AFTER TIME, FOR EXAMPLE, THERE'S A CASE IN GEORGIA WHERE 10,000 VOTES, HE SAID, WERE PUT FORTH BY DEAD PEOPLE. BUT IN EVERY CASE, THE PEOPLE IN THE POSITION TO KNOW WOULD TELL HIM, MR. PRESIDENT, THAT IS INCORRECT. IT'S FALSE. SO THEY SAID HE HAD NO REASON TO SUSPECT THAT HE WON. >> LET'S LISTEN TO THIS FOR A MOMENT FROM THE CONTROL ROOM. IF WE CAN BRING UP THE AUDIO ON THIS MOTORCADE IN WASHINGTON. FOR THOSE OF US WHO HAVE COVERED WASHINGTON AND PRESIDENCIES, WE KNOW THE FAMILIAR SOUND OF THE SIRENS FROM PRESIDENTIAL MOTORCADES. THOUGH IT'S QUITE SURREAL TO HEAR IT PLAY OUT IN THIS SCENARIO. AARON KATERSKY IS AT THE FEDERAL COURTHOUSE IN WASHINGTON AS WE WATCH THESE LIVE PICTURES OF FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP'S MOTORCADE TAKE HIM TO THAT COURTHOUSE WHERE HE WILL BE ARRAIGNED JUST A SHORT TIME FROM NOW. WE HAVE JUST LEARNED THAT THE FORMER PRESIDENT IS ALONE IN THE MOTORCADE. THIS IS HOW IT PLAYED OUT IN SOUTH FLORIDA IN THE CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS CASE. AND AGAIN TODAY TO IMAGINE WHAT MUST BE PLAYING OUT IN HIS MIND AS THE FORMER PRESIDENT RETURNS TO WASHINGTON. AND AGAIN, THIS COURTHOUSE NOT FAR FROM THE WHITE HOUSE AND ACTUALLY JUST STEPS FROM THE CAPITOL AS WELL AARON. TAKE US THROUGH WHAT WE EXPECT TO PLAY OUT ONCE THE FORMER PRESIDENT ARRIVES. >> FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP, DAVID, IS NOW APPROACHING A COURTHOUSE WHERE WATERGATE DEFENDANTS WERE PROSECUTE DID. AND AS SOON AS HE ARRIVES, HE IS GOING TO SEE A SCENE OF PROTESTERS BOTH FOR HIM AND AGAINST HIM. ACROSS THE STREET, PROTESTERS HAVE BEEN BLARING MUSIC AND THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE WITH A GIANT SPEAKER SET UP ACROSS A PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE. AND HE IS GOING TO BE IMMEDIATELY TAKEN TO THE SECOND FLOOR FOR PROCESSING AS A CRIMINAL DEFENDANT. HIS FINGERPRINTS WILL BE SCANNED. HE'LL HAVE TO GIVE OVER SOME BASIC INFORMATION. HIS SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER, HIS ADDRESS. BUT AT NO TIME IS HE GOING TO BE IN HANDCUFFS. AND THERE'S NO NEED FOR A MUGSHOT, WE'RE TOLD, BECAUSE THE FORMER PRESIDENT, DAVID, IS ALREADY ONE OF THE MOST PHOTOGRAPHED PEOPLE IN THE COUNTRY. SO AFTER THIS QUICK BOUT OF PROCESSING, HE'S GOING TO BE TAKEN INTO A COURTROOM THAT'S NORMALLY USED BY THE CHIEF JUDGE IN THIS DISTRICT. HE'S GOING TO APPEAR BEFORE A FEDERAL MAGISTRATE ENTER A PLEA OF NOT GUILTY. AND HE WILL BE SEATED WITH TWO ATTORNEYS AT THE DEFENSE TABLE, JOHN LAURO, WHO WAS ONLY RECENTLY HIRED BY THE FORMER PRESIDENT AFTER HE RECEIVED A TARGET LETTER FORMALLY INFORMING HIM THAT HE IS A TARGET OF THE INVESTIGATION BY THE SPECIAL COUNSEL AND BY TODD BLANCH, WHO'S BEEN WITH HIM FOR INDICTMENTS PREVIOUS PLEA, OTHERWISE, IT'S THE TWO OF THEM, THE FORMER PRESIDENT. THERE ARE OTHERS IN THE MOTORCADE, PHD, POLITICAL ADVISORS, LEGAL ADVISORS. BUT AS YOU SAY, DAVID , HE IS RIDING TO THIS COURTHOUSE ALONE. EIGHT MINUTES. >> EXTRAORDINARY TO IMAGINE, JOHN KARL, WE KNOW THIS ROUTE VERY WELL OURSELVES. YOU KNOW, HE'S CROSSED THE POTOMAC NOW PAST THE JEFFERSON MEMORIAL ON HIS WAY BACK TO VERY FAMILIAR TERRITORY FOR HIM. HE'LL BE JUST A COUPLE OF BLOCKS FROM THE WHITE HOUSE WHERE OBVIOUSLY HE SERVED FOR FOUR YEARS, WAS HOPING HE WOULD SERVE LONGER STEPS FROM THE CAPITOL WHERE THE SCENE PLAYED OUT ON JANUARY 6TH. AND WHERE THE COUNTRY WITNESSED THE JANUARY SIXTH HEARINGS. BUT AGAIN, SOME OF THAT EVIDENCE THAT THEY UNCOVERED, PERHAPS THE FOUNDATION OF THIS INDICTMENT. BUT THE INDICTMENT GOES MUCH FURTHER. JACK SMITH HAS SHED LIGHT ON THINGS THAT WE DID NOT KNOW. AND ONE OF THE MAIN QUESTIONS GOING INTO TODAY IS JUST HOW MUCH MORE? WHAT DID JACK SMITH HOLD BACK? THAT IS A KEY QUESTION AS WE WATCH THIS PLAY OUT OVER THE NEXT SEVERAL MONTHS. >> JUST LAST NIGHT, HIS FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL, BILL BARR, SAID THAT HE BELIEVES THAT JACK SMITH HELD BACK QUITE A BIT. I KNOW THAT I HAD BIG QUESTIONS GOING INTO SEEING THIS INDICTMENT. ONE OF THE BIG QUESTIONS THAT I HAD IS WHAT ABOUT MARK MEADOWS? NO NO PERSON SPENT MORE TIME WITH DONALD TRUMP DURING ON JANUARY 6TH OR IN THE DAYS LEADING UP TO IT AS HIS CHIEF OF STAFF, MARK MEADOWS. WE'VE HEARD VERY LITTLE FROM MEADOWS OVER THE PAST SEVERAL MONTHS. WE KNOW THAT HE'S TALKED TO THE SPECIAL COUNSEL. WE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT HE'S HAD TO SAY, WHAT HIS LEVEL OF COOPERATION IS. AND THERE'S VERY LITTLE IN THIS INDICTMENT THAT SHEDS ANY LIGHT ON THAT. SO THERE ARE THAT'S JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF QUESTIONS THAT WE HAVE. ONE THING THAT IS NEW IN HERE IS THE TESTIMONY OF FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE AS AS YOU RECALL, PENCE REFUSED TO TALK TO THE JANUARY 6TH COMMITTEE. HE CHALLENGED THE SPECIAL COUNSEL'S RIGHT TO INTERVIEW HIM. IN THIS CASE, AT LEAST IN REGARD TO HIS DUTIES ON JANUARY SIXTH AND THE SPECIAL COUNSEL HAD TO HAD TO FIGHT IN COURT TO GET TO COMPEL PENCE. HIS TESTIMONY. SO WE SEE SOME VERY INTERESTING THINGS IN THIS INDICTMENT FROM MIKE PENCE, HIS TESTIMONY. BUT BUT THERE'S A LOT ELSE THAT YOU KNOW, WE KNOW THAT HE'S LOOKED AT THAT WE DON'T SEE IN HERE THAT WE HAVE YET TO SEE FROM JACK SMITH. >> AND AGAIN, YOU POINT OUT THAT MIKE PENCE, ONE OF THE THINGS IN THE INDICTMENT, OF COURSE, THE CONTEMPORANEOUS NOTES FROM MIKE PENCE THAT HAVE BEEN HANDED OVER TO JACKSON SMITH AND WERE NOW STARING DOWN AT A POTENTIAL TRIAL WHERE MIKE PENCE, THE FORMER VICE PRESIDENT, WILL BE THE STAR WITNESS IN THE FEDERAL CRIMINAL CASE AGAINST DONALD TRUMP, ALLEGEDLY ALLEGING THAT HE TRIED TO OVERTURN AN ELECTION THAT THE SPECIAL COUNSEL SAYS HE KNEW HE LOST AS WE LOOK AT THESE LIVE PICTURES, I WANT TO BRING IN JOHN SANTUCCI, WHO HAS COVERED DONALD TRUMP FOR US FOR YEARS AS A CANDIDATE, THEN PRESIDENT, NOW A CANDIDATE AGAIN. AND JOHN, EVEN WHEN YOU HEAR THAT THE FORMER PRESIDENT IS TRAVELING ALONE IN THIS MOTORCADE, TAKE US INTO HIS THOUGHT PROCESS AND WHAT'S PLAYED OUT SO FAR TODAY. AND THE OTHER QUESTION FOR YOU, JOHN, PEOPLE AT HOME ARE REALLY GOING TO WANT TO KNOW, DOES THE FORMER PRESIDENT UNDERSTAND, RECOGNIZE THE WEIGHT OF WHAT IS PLAYING OUT HERE TODAY? WE KNOW WHAT HE'S SAYING PUBLICLY, BUT PRIVATELY, DOES HE UNDERSTAND THE WEIGHT OF THIS? WELL, DAVID , I'LL GO IN THAT ORDER WITH YOU . >> SO ON THE LATTER QUESTION TO YOU, HE ABSOLUTELY UNDERSTOOD STANDS THE WEIGHT OF THIS. I THINK DONALD TRUMP WAS STUNNED, STUPEFIED WAS THE WORD I HEARD WHEN THAT TARGET LETTER ARRIVED JUST TWO WEEKS AGO TO HIS LAWYERS LATE ON A SUNDAY NIGHT. THIS WAS THE CASE. DAVID THAT HE WAS TOLD REPEATEDLY, THIS IS NOT GOING TO HIT YOU. DON'T WORRY ABOUT THIS ONE. SO THE FACT THAT THESE CHARGES WERE BROUGHT, THE FACT THAT DONALD TRUMP IS HEADING TO D.C. RIGHT NOW, DONALD TRUMP HIMSELF TRULY, FROM WHAT I HEAR, DAVID, CANNOT BELIEVE IT. NOW, AS FAR AS DONALD TRUMP'S DAY TO DAY, RATHER ROUTINE, AS ONE PERSON SAID TO ME, WE'RE KIND OF USED TO IT AT THIS POINT. DONALD TRUMP WAKING UP THIS MORNING IN BEDMINSTER, NEW JERSEY, PLAYING A ROUND OF GOLF AND GETTING OFF THE COURSE, DOING SOME CAMPAIGN CALLS BECAUSE DAVID, AS YOU AND I BOTH KNOW, HE IS A CANDIDATE FOR 2024 AND THEN GETTING DRESSED, GETTING IN THAT MOTORCADE AND BY HIMSELF AGAIN, DAVID, WHICH AS SOMEBODY ELSE NOTED TO ME, HE ENJOYS THAT RIDE BY HIMSELF. AND I SAID, WELL, HOW DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? DONALD TRUMP LIKES TALKING TO PEOPLE. AND THEY SAID, WELL, FOR THIS YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND IT'S A LITTLE MOMENT OF ACTUALLY REFLECTION FOR HIM. HE DOESN'T WANT TO BE BOTHERED DURING THESE TIMES, WHICH FOR A GUY, AS WE KNOW, WE'VE ALL BEEN AROUND DONALD TRUMP, DAVID, FOR MANY YEARS NOW. DONALD TRUMP LIKES FEEDING OFF THE PEOPLE AROUND HIM. HE LIKES ASKING PEOPLE FOR THEIR OPINIONS. SO TO THINK THAT HE'S ALONE RIGHT NOW, YET AGAIN , EVERY TIME WE DO THIS, DAVID, WE SAY IT'S ASTONISHING. BUT YET AGAIN, THE WORD IS VALID. IT IS JUST ASTONISHING. >> THAT IS STRIKING TO HEAR FROM SOME WHO ARE CLOSE TO THE FORMER PRESIDENT THAT HE ACTUALLY ENJOYS TRAVELING ALONE. WHAT JOHN SANTUCCI JUST REPORTED HERE. BUT ALSO THAT THE FORMER PRESIDENT CERTAINLY KNOWS THE WEIGHT OF WHAT IS PLAYING OUT TODAY IN FACT, JOHN HAD REPORTED BEFORE, ALONG WITH THE REST OF OUR TEAM, THAT THE FORMER PRESIDENT BELIEVED CHARGES WERE COMING IN THE MAR-A-LAGO CASE, BUT THOUGHT SOMEHOW THAT THEY WOULD SKIRT CHARGES RELATED TO TRYING TO OVERTURN THE ELECTION RELATED TO JANUARY 6TH, THAT SOMEHOW THAT WOULD NOT HAPPEN. BUT ONCE THAT TARGET LETTER ARRIVED, IT WAS PAINFULLY CLEAR TO THEM THAT CHARGES WERE IN FACT COMING. MARTHA RADDATZ, OUR CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANCHOR, I WANTED TO GET YOUR REACTION TO SOMETHING ELSE. JOHN SANTUCCI JUST SAID THAT EVEN THE TEAM AROUND THE FORMER PRESIDENT HAS BECOME SOMEWHAT USED TO THIS, YOU KNOW, IMMUNE TO THE HISTORICAL WEIGHT OF WHAT IT IS WE'RE WATCHING. YOU WERE THERE ON JANUARY 6TH. AND I KNOW IT'S SOMETHING YOU AND I HAVE TALKED ABOUT FOR QUITE SOME TIME THAT THE HOPE THAT AS WE REPORT OUT THESE MOMENTS IN HISTORY OUT AND IT'S OUR AIM TO REPORT THEM AS FAIRLY AND AS STEADILY AS POSSIBLE THAT THE COUNTRY DOESN'T BECOME IMMUNE TO WHAT THEY'RE SEEING. BECAUSE YOU CERTAINLY WITNESSED WHAT YOU SAW ON JANUARY SIXTH AND YOU'VE ALSO TRAVELED THE COUNTRY SINCE. AND YOU'RE FULLY AWARE THAT THERE ARE MANY VOTERS OUT THERE WHO STILL BELIEVE THAT THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN. >> ABSOLUTELY, DAVID. AND AS I WATCHED THAT MOTORCADE AND THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU JUST SAID, THAT HE WILL BE NEAR THE CAPITOL, HE JUST PAST THE JEFFERSON MEMORIAL . HE HAS THE WASHINGTON MONUMENT IN HIS VIEW. BUT MOST OF ALL, THE CAPITOL, THE WHOLE COUNTRY WATCHED THAT. I WAS THERE. I SAW THE CHAOS. I SAW THE VIOLENCE, BUT SO DID DONALD TRUMP WHEN HE WATCHED THAT FROM THE WHITE HOUSE. ABOUT 187 MINUTES FROM THE TIME HE GAVE A SPEECH H TO WHEN HE FINALLY TWEETED OUT FOR PEOPLE TO GO HOME, HE WATCHED ALL OF THAT AND THAT IS PART OF THIS INDICTED GIANT THAT THE PRESIDENT FUELED. AND THIS I TALKED TO AN OFFICIAL THE NEXT DAY WHO SAID, LOOK, I LISTENED TO THAT SPEECH AND DONALD TRUMP GAVE ALL THOSE PEOPLE ALL THE GREEN LIGHT. BUT YOU GO AROUND THE COUNTRY, I REMEMBER IN WYOMING LAST YEAR AND TALKING TO A MAN, HE SAID, OH, NO ONE, NO ONE WAS HURT. IT WAS FINE. THEY WERE JUST PROTESTING. AND I PULLED OUT MY PHONE AND SAID, LET ME SHOW YOU SOME VIDEOS FROM THAT DAY. AND HE ACTUALLY SAID, OH, OH, MAYBE I SHOULD TAKE A LOOK AT THAT. BUT THERE ARE OTHERS WHO WHO WILL SAY, NO MATTER HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN PROSECUTED, NO MATTER HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN PUT IN JAIL, THAT IT DOESN'T REALLY HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH DONALD TRUMP. WHEN I WAS WRITING UP TO THE CAPITOL THAT DAY AND HOLLERED AT SOME PEOPLE AS THEY WERE APPROACHING THE CAPITOL, I SAID THEY THEY BREACHED THE CAPITOL, THEY BREACHED THE CAPITOL, AND THEY SAY, WELL, WE HAVE TO DO WHAT WE HAVE TO DO. TELL ME IN INSTANCES THAT THEY WERE THERE BECAUSE DONALD TRUMP SENT THEM THERE AND THERE WERE ARMED PEOPLE, ACCORDING TO TESTIMONY THAT THEY THOUGHT WERE IN THE CROWD. AND AT DONALD TRUMP'S SPEECH. AND YET THAT CONTINUED. AND YET DONALD TRUMP SAID, GIVE THEM HELL, STOP THE STEAL. >> MARTHA RADDATZ WATCHING THIS PLAY OUT WITH US HERE TODAY AS WELL. MARTHA, THANK YOU. THE FORMER PRESIDENT THAT IS HEADED TO THE SAME COURTHOUSE WHERE MORE THAN A THOUSAND OTHERS, 1000 OTHERS HAVE NOW FACED CHARGES FOR THEIR ROLE IN THE JANUARY SIXTH CAPITOL SIEGE. TODAY'S PROCEEDING WILL BE OVERSEEN BY A FEDERAL MAGISTRATE JUDGE MAXILLA OBADIAH. SHE'LL OVERSEE THIS CASE. BUT LOOK AT THIS. THIS IS THE JUDGE WHO WILL THEN WE JUST HAD IT UP ON SCREEN. WE CAN SHOW IT AGAIN. JUDGE TANYA, CHUCK TODD, SHE'S AN OBAMA APPOINTEE. SHE WILL BE THE JUDGE WHO WILL BE OVERSEEING THIS CASE ONCE IT'S IN FULL SWING, IF YOU WILL. SHE'S ALREADY TRIED A NUMBER OF JANUARY SIX CASES. SHE'S ALREADY HANDED OUT VERY STIFF SENTENCES IN THESE CASES RELATED TO JANUARY SIX AND ONE CASE IN DECEMBER OF 2021 SAYING, QUOTE, IT HAS TO BE MADE CLEAR THAT TRYING TO VIOLENTLY OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT, NOT TRYING TO STOP THE PEACEFUL TRANSITION OF POWER AND ASSAULTING LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS IN THAT EFFORT IS GOING TO BE MET WITH ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN PUNISHMENT. THAT QUOTE FROM JUDGE CHUCK TODD, WHO WILL BE PRESIDING OVER THIS CASE, NOT TODAY, BUT ONCE THE CASE MOVES ON FROM HERE, YOU DON'T NEED ME TO TELL YOU THAT. AS WE LOOK AT THESE LIVE PICTURES HERE TODAY, THAT ALL OF THIS IS NOW PLAYING OUT AMID THE 2024 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, JUST AS IT BEGINS TO PICK UP STEAM. THE FORMER PRESIDENT BY FAR THE LEADING REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE FOR HIS PARTY'S NOMINATION, SOME 37 TO 40 POINTS AHEAD OF THE CLOSEST CHALLENGER ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, RON DESANTIS. HE ALSO IS BEING CHALLENGED BY WHO I MENTIONED WILL BE THE STAR WITNESS IN THIS CASE. IF THIS GOES TO TRIAL. MIKE PENCE, HIS FORMER VICE PRESIDENT, WHO JUST TODAY IS NOW SELLING MERCHANDISE BASED OFF OF WHAT WAS IN THE INDICTMENT AND I BELIEVE THE CONTROL ROOM HAS AN IMAGE OF THIS. BUT T SHIRTS AND HATS THAT SAY TOO HONEST IN THAT INDICTMENT, THE PRESIDENT IS QUOTED THE FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP, SAYING TO MIKE PENCE LEADING UP TO THE CERTIFICATION THAT, MIKE, YOU ARE TOO HONEST. AND MARY BRUCE, WHO IS OUR CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, COVERING THE RACE FOR PRESIDENT, WE SAW THAT MOMENT WITH MIKE PENCE BEING PRESSED BY VOTERS FOR HIS ROLE, NOT SUPPORTING HIM, BUT INSTEAD QUESTIONING HIM, SAYING BECAUSE OF WHAT YOU DID THAT DAY, WE HAVE JOE BIDEN AGAIN THIS POINT THAT THERE ARE STILL MANY VOTERS IN THIS COUNTRY WHO BELIEVE DONALD TRUMP'S WORDS LEADING UP TO JANUARY 6TH. >> DAVID, IN FACT, ACCORDING TO A NEW POLL OUT TODAY FROM CNN, ABOUT 70% OF REPUBLICAN VOTERS, REPUBLICAN LEANING VOTERS, STILL BELIEVE THAT THIS ELECTION WAS FRAUDULENT, THAT JOE BIDEN DID NOT LEGITIMATELY WIN THE PRESIDENCY. THAT IS THE ENVIRONMENT IN WHICH THIS CASE IS NOW PLAYING OUT. AND MIKE PENCE IS IN AN INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT SITUATION HERE. HE HAS LONG MAINTAINED AND DID SO JUST IN THE LAST 24 HOURS THAT HE WAS FULFILLING HIS CONSTITUTION DUTY BY GOING AHEAD AND CERTIFYING THE RESULTS OF THIS ELECTION. AND HE HAS RAMPED UP HIS RHETORIC. I WOULDN'T CALL THEM ATTACKS BECAUSE HE'S NOT NECESSARILY GOING THAT FAR, BUT WE HAVE SEEN HARSHER COMMENTS FROM HIM IN THE LAST 24 HOURS AGAINST DONALD TRUMP, SAYING ANYONE WHO PUTS HIMSELF OVER THE CONSTITUTION SHOULD NEVER BE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. HE IS, THOUGH, ARGUING THAT HISTORY THAT VOTERS NOT THE COURT, SHOULD HOLD DONALD TRUMP ACCOUNTABLE. AND THAT IS AN ARGUMENT THAT YOU ARE SEEING REPEATED BY OTHER REPUBLICAN RIVALS ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL. >> DAVID, THIS IS A VERY DELICATE DANCE FOR MIKE PENCE, WHO CONTINUES TO SAY, YES, THAT THIS SHOULD NOT BE PLAYING OUT IN THE COURTS, THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE SHOULD DECIDE. YET HE'S SELLING MERCHANDISE TODAY OFF OF THE FACT THAT HE WAS, IN THE FORMER PRESIDENT'S WORDS, QUOTE , TOO HONEST. AND AS WE LOOK AT LIVE PICTURES, WE'LL COME BACK THE MOMENT WE SEE THE FORMER PRESIDENT WILL STAY WITH THE LIVE PICTURES. BUT IN ADDITION, I WANT TO SHOW YOU THIS QUESTION I ASKED MIKE PENCE BECAUSE THIS GOES TO THIS QUESTION THAT WILL BE DEBATED. BUT THAT JACK SMITH CONTENDS THAT DONALD TRUMP KNEW HE LOST THE ELECTION. AND SO I HAD ASKED MIKE PENCE IN HIS FIRST INTERVIEW ABOUT JANUARY 6TH, I ASKED THE FORMER VICE PRESIDENT, DID YOU TELL DONALD TRUMP POINT BLANK, WE HAVE LOST HERE? HERE'S WHAT HE SAID. DID YOU EVER POINT BLANK SAY TO THE PRESIDENT, I WILL NOT DO THIS, I WILL NOT INTERVENE. WE LOST THIS ELECTION. >> I DID. DAVID, MANY TIMES. >> SO LET'S BRING IN OUR CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST, DAN ABRAMS, BECAUSE THIS WILL BE PART OF WHAT THE DEFENSE GOES TO WHAT WAS PLAYING OUT IN DONALD TRUMP'S MIND AS JACK SMITH TRIES TO MAKE THE CASE THAT IT WASN'T JUST MIKE PENCE, IT WAS A MULTITUDE OF PEOPLE WHO WERE VERY CLOSE TO THE FORMER PRESIDENT AND THE FORMER PRESIDENT HIMSELF WHO KNEW THEY LOST. >> AND THAT'S THE CRITICAL PIECE HERE WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE WITNESSES IN THIS CASE, THEY'RE GOING TO BE DONALD TRUMP'S INNER CIRCLE. THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO BE THE CRITICAL PEOPLE TESTIFYING IN THIS CASE. IT'S NOT GOING TO BE A BUNCH OF DEMOCRATS THAT'S COMING IN AND SAYING, OH, DONALD TRUMP WAS WRONG AND WE WERE BLAMING HIM FROM DAY ONE. THIS IS GOING TO BE PEOPLE WHO EITHER WORKED FOR DONALD TRUMP, WORKED WITH DONALD TRUMP, SUPPORTED DONALD TRUMP. THOSE ARE THE KEY WITNESSES. AND MIKE PENCE IS CERTAINLY GOING TO BE ONE OF THOSE STAR WITNESSES. AND I THINK I THINK IT'S ENTIRELY FAIR TO SAY THAT HE'S GOING TO BE THE STAR WITNESS, PARTICULARLY ON ON ONE OF THE COUNTS. RIGHT BECAUSE REMEMBER, THERE ARE KIND OF DIFFERENT EDGES AND NUANCES BETWEEN THE COUNTS HERE. RIGHT. ONE OF THEM IS WITH REGARD TO THE FAKE ELECTOR SCHEME. RIGHT. AND MIKE PENCE WILL BE A LITTLE LESS IMPORTANT WITH REGARD TO THAT ONE. HE'S MORE IMPORTANT WITH THE EFFORT TO TRY TO STOP THE ELECTION FROM BEING CERTIFIED ON JANUARY 6TH. ON THAT ONE, MIKE PENCE BECOMES A CRITICAL WITNESS. AND WHEN YOU'RE EVALUATING THESE TWO LEGALLY, YOU KNOW, YOU HEAR PEOPLE SAY, WELL, FREE SPEECH, FIRST AMENDMENT, ETCETERA, THAT'S A MUCH TOUGHER ARGUMENT TO EVEN MAKE WHEN IT COMES TO THE FAKE ELECTOR SCHEME. RIGHT. BECAUSE THERE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A FRAUD, RIGHT? A GROUP OF PEOPLE GETTING TOGETHER TO TRY TO PERPETRATE A FRAUD ON THE UNITED STATES BY SUGGESTING THAT PEOPLE IN VARIOUS STATES, REPUBLICANS, WERE THE ACTUALLY DULY ELECTED ELECTORS WHEN THEY WEREN'T DOCUMENTS BEING SENT IN, PAPERWORK TO THE UNITED STATES. THAT'S A VERY DIFFERENT CASE. IT'LL BE A DIFFERENT DEFENSE. AND SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ALL THESE CHARGES, I DO THINK AS A LEGAL MATTER, IT'S IMPORTANT TO SEPARATE THEM OUT BECAUSE THERE WILL BE DIFFERENT EVIDENCE AND DIFFERENT DEFENSES AND DIFFERENT WITNESSES WHO PLAY INTO EACH ONE OF THOSE COUNTS. >> AND AS YOU POINT OUT, FOR EXAMPLE, THE FRAUDULENT ELECTORS, THE FAKE ELECTORS, AS MIKE PENCE WILL PLAY A LESSER ROLE IN THAT ARGUMENT. BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE WERE ON THE AIR WHEN THE INDICTMENT WAS RELEASED JUST TWO DAYS AGO THAT JON KARL, IF MY MEMORY SERVES ME CORRECTLY, POINTED OUT FIRST, WAS THAT THIS IS AN EXAMPLE, DAN, OF WHERE THEY HAVE DIRECT EVIDENCE INVOLVED ING FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP BEING PART OF THIS NOTION TO CREATE FAKE ELECTORS, ALTERNATE ELECTORS FROM SEVEN KEY STATES AND THEY NEEDED THAT, RIGHT. >> IT CAN'T JUST BE. WELL, DONALD TRUMP WAS PLEASED ABOUT WHAT THEY WERE DOING AND HE WAS THRILLED ABOUT IT. THERE HAS TO BE EVIDENCE THAT HE WAS LEADING IT, THAT HE WAS MAKING CALLS AND THAT'S WHAT THE INDICTMENT SAYS, IS THAT HE WASN'T JUST A PASSIVE RECIPIENT OF GOOD FORTUNE WHEN HE WAS THE ONE WHO WAS LEADING, ACCORDING TO THE INDICTMENT, THIS EFFORT TO CREATE THESE FAKE ELECTORS, THEY CALL THEM ALTERNATE ELECTORS, THESE FAKE ELECTORS IN THESE DIFFERENT STATES. YES. THAT'S, YOU KNOW, ON THAT ONE, IF THEY HAVE WHAT JACK SMITH SAYS THEY HAVE, WHICH IS DONALD TRUMP MAKING THE CALLS, ET CETERA. IT'S ALMOST A HARDER DEFENSE. I MEAN, LOOK, THIS IS ALL GOING TO BE A TOUGH DEFENSE, I THINK. BUT THAT'S ALMOST A HARDER CASE TO DEFEND THAN THE ONE WITH REGARD TO JANUARY 6TH, WHERE DONALD TRUMP WILL SAY, I BELIEVED IT. I THOUGHT IT I WAS JUST TRYING TO ADVOCATE FOR WHAT I WAS BEING TOLD BY MY LAWYERS WAS OUR LEGAL RIGHTS WHEN IT COMES TO THE FAKE ELECTORS, IT'S TOUGH TO FIGURE OUT, LIKE HOW YOU CAN SAY, I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE OKAY FOR US TO SEND IN THESE DOCUMENTS WITH PEOPLE WHO WERE NOT THE DULY ELECTED ELECTORS AS BEING NAMED AS THE ACTUAL PEOPLE WHO SHOULD REPRESENT THE STATE. >> THAT'S REALLY FASCINATING. DAN AND I WANT TO I WANT TO ASK YOU FOR A FOLLOW UP TO WHAT YOU JUST TALKED ABOUT, BECAUSE YOU HIT ON ANOTHER KEY PART OF WHAT WILL LIKELY BE DONALD TRUMP'S DEFENSE. AND THIS IS ON THE LANGUAGE IN FRONT OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IN THE WEEKS LEADING UP TO JANUARY 6TH. AND, OF COURSE, THAT MORNING, YOU SUGGEST AND IT'S NOT A LEAP BECAUSE HIS ATTORNEYS HAVE ALSO SUGGESTED THIS ALREADY, THAT DONALD TRUMP WILL SAY, WELL, WAIT A MINUTE, I BELIEVE THIS. YOU KNOW, I BELIEVED THAT THERE WERE FRAUDULENT THINGS GOING ON WITH THIS ELECTION. AND IT'S REALLY FASCINATING THAT IN THE INDICTMENT, JACK SMITH SAYS HE HAS EVERY RIGHT TO SAY THAT PUBLICLY. JACK SMITH SAYS, GO AHEAD, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY THAT. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO ACTUALLY SPREAD LIES. BUT WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO IS FIGHT WHAT YOU BELIEVE IS FRAUDULENT THROUGH LAWFUL MEANS AND IN THE COURT SYSTEM, WHICH JACK SMITH SAYS IS EXACTLY WHAT DONALD TRUMP DID AND HE LOST, IT'S THE CONDUCT, RIGHT? >> NOT THE WORDS. IT'S THE CONDUCT. AND THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SHOW LEGALLY THAT HE KNEW THAT WHAT HE WAS DOING WAS CORRUPT, WAS WRONG. AND THEY BELIEVE THAT THEY HAVE ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO DO THAT. IT'S NOT GOING TO BE ENOUGH FOR JUST A WITNESS. RIGHT. TO COME FORWARD AND SAY, WELL, I TOLD HIM I TOLD HIM THAT THAT HE LOST. THAT'S NOT IN AND OF ITSELF. DONALD TRUMP COULD SAY, YEAH, BUT ALL THESE OTHER PEOPLE TOLD ME THAT THERE WAS FRAUD GOING ON IN THIS STATE AND FRAUD GOING ON IN THAT STATE. AND MY LAWYERS WERE TELLING ME THAT I HAD EVERY RIGHT TO CHALLENGE THIS. ON JANUARY 6TH. THAT'S WHY IT BECOMES SO CRITICAL WHAT THE EVIDENCE IS THAT HE KNEW THAT HE'D LOST. HE KNEW. AND THAT'S WHERE YOUR INTERVIEW WITH MIKE PENCE IS IMPORTANT. PEOPLE LIKE MIKE PENCE TELLING HIM, NO, THIS THING IS OVER. I'M BEING TOLD THAT I HAVE NO AUTONOMY HERE. THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT I CAN DO HERE. AND THAT'S GOING TO BE ONE OF THE BIG FIGHTS HERE. SO I THINK THE DEFENSE, WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND FIRST AMENDMENT IS MORE A POLITICAL DEFENSE. IT'S I THINK THE LEGAL DEFENSE IS MORE THIS IS WHAT WAS GOING ON IN DONALD TRUMP'S HEAD. HE WAS ACCEPTING THE COUNSEL. HE WAS GETTING FROM HIS LAWYERS. HE WAS ACCEPTING OTHER PEOPLE'S ACCOUNTS OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING. AND THAT'S WHY HE DID WHAT HE DID. >> AND THE LEGAL DEFENSE IS WHAT MATTERS HERE. YES >> GOING FORWARD. BUT HIS LAWYERS ARE CITING THIS FIRST AMENDMENT. I'M JUST SAYING IT'S NOT IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF A FRIVOLOUS ARGUMENT TO SUGGEST THAT, OH, IT'S FREEDOM OF SPEECH. I MEAN, THIS IS WHAT BILL BARR, HIS ATTORNEY GENERAL, SAID LAST NIGHT. AND HE'S RIGHT, WHICH IS ANY FRAUD INVOLVES WORDS. RIGHT JUST BECAUSE YOU USE WORDS TO COMMIT A CRIME, IT DOESN'T MEAN, OH, IT'S ALL PROTECTED BY THE FIRST AMENDMENT. YOU CAN STILL COMMIT CRIMES WITH WORDS. I MEAN, THINK ABOUT CONSPIRACY TO COMMIT A MURDER, RIGHT? >> YOU COULD ASK A HITMAN, GO AND KILL THAT GUY. THAT'S NOT PROTECTED SPEECH. BUT THIS QUESTION OF WHAT HE KNEW AND WHAT HE BELIEVED IS AN IMPORTANT ONE, I THINK THAT THERE'S ONE VERY CRYSTAL CLEAR EXAMPLE IN THIS INDICTMENT OF WHERE DONALD TRUMP WAS SAYING SOMETHING PUBLICLY, NOT ONLY THAT WAS FALSE, BUT THAT HE KNEW WAS FALSE. AND IT'S DIRECTLY RELEVANT HERE. AND THAT'S REGARDING ADDING WHAT PENCE WAS GOING TO DO ON JANUARY SIXTH. HE GOES THROUGH CHAPTER AND VERSE AND DETAILS SOME OF THESE MEETINGS THAT HAD BEEN PREVIOUSLY REPORTED AND TALKED ABOUT THAT PENCE HAS SPOKEN ABOUT ALL THE TIMES LEADING UP TO JANUARY SIXTH WHERE PENCE HAD TOLD HIM POINT BLANK, I DON'T HAVE THE POWER TO DO WHAT YOU ARE ASKING ME TO DO. YOU ARE ASKING ME TO SINGLE HANDEDLY OVERTURN THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION DURING WHAT IS ONLY A CEREMONIAL ROLE IN THIS PROCEEDING. AND PENCE TOLD HIM OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN THAT HE COULDN'T DO IT. AND AFTER ONE PARTICULARLY CONTENTIOUS MEETING ON JANUARY 5TH, WHERE PENCE SAID, I CAN'T DO IT THE DAY BEFORE, SAYING I WILL NOT HALT THE YES, I WILL NOT DO IT. DONALD TRUMP PUTS OUT A STATEMENT AND SMITH CITES IT HERE, PUTS OUT A STATEMENT THAT WE ALL SAW THAT NIGHT WHERE DONALD TRUMP SAID THE VICE PRESIDENT AND I ARE IN TOTAL AGREEMENT TONIGHT THAT THE VICE PRESIDENT HAS THE POWER TO ACT AND THAT IS NOT WHAT WAS GOING ON. AND TRUMP KNEW IT WAS NOT WHAT WAS GOING ON. >> AND OF COURSE, SO YOU CAN'T SAY HE BELIEVED IT BECAUSE HE HE DIDN'T HE HAD HE KNEW THAT IT WAS FALSE. AND THE KEY PERSON, THE OTHER PART OF THAT CONVERSATION IS MIKE PENCE, WHO ALSO SHARED THAT MOMENT WITH ME, FULLY AWARE OF WHAT HE SAID TO HIS BOSS ON THAT DAY, WHICH IS WHAT HE HAD BEEN SAYING, AS YOU JUST POINTED OUT, JOHN, FOR WEEKS, WHICH IS I WILL NOT STAND IN THE WAY OF THE CERTIFICATION OF THIS ELECTION. YOU'RE LOOKING AT A MOMENT FROM THE INDICTMENT THERE. BUT AGAIN, THESE ARE LIVE PICTURES IN WASHINGTON, DC, AS WE ARE ON THE AIR TODAY. WE KNOW THAT THE FORMER PRESIDENT IS NOW INSIDE THAT FEDERAL COURTHOUSE AARON KATERSKY IS STANDING BY OUTSIDE THE COURTHOUSE HOUSE. KATHERINE FAULDERS, OUR SENIOR REPORTER THERE WITH THE OUR INVESTIGATIVE UNIT IS INSIDE THE COURTHOUSE. THE MOMENT SHE EMERGES WITH COLOR FROM INSIDE, WE WILL GO TO HER. IN THE MEANTIME, AARON, WHAT'S THE BELIEF RIGHT NOW AS TO WHAT'S PLAYING OUT? >> THE FORMER PRESIDENT'S MOTORCADE WENT UNDERGROUND INTO A PARKING GARAGE, DAVID, SO WE DID NOT PHYSICALLY SEE HIM ENTER, BUT WE KNOW HE'S IN THE COURTHOUSE AND HIS FIRST STOP IS TO THE US MARSHALS FOR PROCESSING AS A CRIMINAL DEFENDANT, A PROCESS THAT HE'S FAMILIAR WITH BECAUSE HE'S DONE IT TWICE BEFORE IN TWO OTHER COURTHOUSES FINGERPRINTS, SCANNING, TURNING OVER SOME PERSONAL INFORMATION AND THEN HE'LL BE BROUGHT TO A SECOND FLOOR COURTROOM FOR AN ARRAIGNMENT OUTSIDE. AND THE FORMER PRESIDENT MAY HAVE SEEN THIS ON HIS WAY TO COURT. THERE ARE SUPPORTERS AND DETRACTORS OF THE FORMER PRESIDENT GATHERED, INCLUDING SOMEONE YOU MAY BE ABLE TO HEAR SHOUTING INTO A MICROPHONE DRESSED IN A REVOLUTIONARY WAR COSTUME. UM, HE HAS BEEN SINGING AND SHOUTING FOR THE LAST 20 OR 30 MINUTES OR SO, AND THERE ARE PEOPLE WAVING FLAGS. THERE'S AN INFLATABLE TRUMP BALLOON THERE ARE IMPERSONATORS, A MAN WEARING A JAIL COSTUME THAT WE ALSO SAW WHEN THE FORMER PRESIDENT WAS ARRAIGNED IN MIAMI FEDERAL COURT AND SO WITH EACH OF THESE, THERE IS A BIT OF A CARNIVAL ATMOSPHERE. BUT I THINK THIS ONE, DAVID, IS A BIT MORE SUBDUED. AND THAT MAY BE DUE TO THE LOCATION. THE FEDERAL COURTHOUSE HERE IS WITHIN SIGHT OF THE UNITED STATES CAPITOL. SO AS THE FORMER PRESIDENT'S MOTORCADE PULLED IN, HE'S VERY MUCH RETURNING TO THE SCENE OF THE CRIME. IT'S QUITE A JUXTAPOSITION, AARON, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE CALMNESS OF THE RELATIVELY, YOU KNOW, LAID BACK NATURE OF THOSE WHO HAVE GATHERED THERE TODAY. >> WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THAT BEING THE VERY ROUTE THAT SOME OF THOSE ON JANUARY 6TH TOOK TO GET TO THE CAPITOL, WHICH IS JUST STEPS FROM WHERE YOU'RE STANDING, AARON. >> REALLY, DAVID, THIS AREA WAS OVERRUN WITH WITH PROTESTERS AND AS YOU MENTIONED, MORE THAN A THOUSAND DEFENDANTS HAVE BEEN CHARGED FOR THEIR VARYING ROLES IN THE JANUARY 6TH INSURRECTION AT THE CAPITOL. AND DAVID, WHILE THE FORMER PRESIDENT ISN'T CHARGED DIRECTLY, HE IS NOW FACING CRIMINAL CHARGES, IN PART BECAUSE OF JANUARY 6TH. ELENA HARBOR, A SPOKESPERSON WITH THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN AND FOR THE FORMER PRESIDENT. >> LET'S LISTEN IN. THE FACTS. >> ON MARCH 17TH, HUNTER ACCIDENTAL ADMITS THAT IT WAS HIS LAPTOP FROM HELL. THE NEXT DAY, ALVIN BRAGG INDICTS PRESIDENT TRUMP, JUNE 8TH, ALINA HABA MAKING THE CASE THAT THIS IS POLITICALLY MOTIVATED, BRINGING UP THE CURRENT PRESIDENT'S SON, HUNTER BIDEN. >> AND WE SHOULD POINT OUT THAT WE HAVE REPORTED IN DEPTH ON HUNTER BIDEN AND HIS OWN LEGAL WOES AND THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, THEIR HANDLING OF THE PRESIDENT'S SON. BUT ON THIS DAY, GIVEN THE HISTORY PLAYING OUT IN WASHINGTON, WE REMAIN FOCUSED ON THIS FEDERAL CRIMINAL INDICTMENT. IN FACT, THE FIRST TIME THIS HAS EVER HAPPENED INVOLVING A FORMER PRESIDENT AGAIN, DONALD TRUMP INSIDE THAT COURTHOUSE WHERE HE IS BEING ARRAIGNED ON FOUR COUNTS RELATED TO HIS ALLEGED ATTEMPT TO OVERTURN THE 2020 ELECTION TO HOLD ON TO THE WHITE HOUSE, EVEN THOUGH JACK SMITH, THE SPECIAL COUNSEL IN THIS CASE, BELIEVES DONALD TRUMP KNEW THAT HE HAD LOST THE ELECTION. OF COURSE, THAT WILL BE A KEY PART OF THE PROSECUTION'S CASE. AS WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT WITH DAN HERE. ALSO KEY IS THE SCHEME TO SET UP FAKE ELECTORS FROM SEVEN KEY STATES IN THIS COUNTRY TO TRY TO OVERTURN THE RESULTS. JACK SMITH MAKING A DIRECT CONNECTION THROUGH PHONE CALLS INVOLVING THE FORMER PRESIDENT. AGAIN, THERE WERE QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THEY WOULD SOMEHOW FIND EVIDENCE DIRECTLY LINKING THE FORMER PRESIDENT TO THAT STRATEGY OF PUTTING IN PLACE FAKE ELECTORS TO REPRESENT THESE STATES AND THE ACTUAL OUTCOME FROM THE STATES INSTEAD OF AN OUTCOME THAT WOULD HAVE GIVEN DONALD TRUMP THOSE PARTICULAR STATES. I'M CURIOUS BECAUSE WE HEAR ABOUT COCONSPIRATORS, DAN ABRAMS. THEY HAVE NOT BEEN NAMED, OBVIOUSLY, THROUGH WHAT'S IN THE PUBLIC REPORTING AND REPORTING FROM ABC NEWS. WE KNOW WHO SOME OF THEM ARE GIVEN THE EVIDENCE HERE. THEY HAVE NOT YET BEEN CHARGED. WE DON'T KNOW IF THEY WILL BE OR HOW MUCH EVIDENCE DO YOU THINK JACK SMITH IS STILL HOLDING CLOSE TO THE VEST HERE? >> WELL, LOOK, I THINK IF THEY WERE GOING TO CHARGE THESE CONSPIRATORS, THEY PROBABLY WOULD HAVE DONE IT. MEANING THAT'S NOT ALWAYS THE WAY IT HAPPENS. BUT IN A CASE LIKE THIS, I WOULD EXPECT THAT IF THEY WERE GOING TO CHARGE THE OTHER COACH CONSPIRATORS, YOU SEE UP THERE, RANGING FROM RUDY GIULIANI, JOHN EASTMAN, SIDNEY POWELL, ETCETERA, AT AND IF THEY WERE GOING TO BE CHARGING THEM, I WOULD HAVE EXPECTED IT. NOW, IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THEY COULD STILL GET CHARGED? YES IT IS STILL POSSIBLE. BUT YOU KNOW, ANY GOOD TRIAL LAWYER WANTS TO HOLD BACK SOMETHING. RIGHT. AS A PROSECUTOR, YOU HAVE TO TURN OVER EVIDENCE, SOMETHING CALLED DISCOVERY. YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LET THE DEFENSE KNOW WHAT THE ARGUMENTS ARE. YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE. YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO TURN OVER TO THE DEFENSE KEY PIECES OF EVIDENCE TO THEM. BUT THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THAT YOU HAVE TO DISCLOSE EVERY SINGLE ARGUMENT THAT YOU'LL MAKE IN THE CONTEXT OF THE CASE. SO I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH HE MAY STILL HAVE IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, VIDEO, AUDIO, ETCETERA. BUT THE DEFENSE WILL KNOW THAT WELL BEFORE THE TRIAL, IF ANY OF THAT EXISTS. SO THERE WON'T BE SURPRISES AT THE TRIAL. SUDDENLY, YOU KNOW, THE VIDEO SHOWS UP AND THE DEFENSE WASN'T READY FOR IT. THAT WILL HAVE HAD TO HAVE BEEN TURNED OVER. >> AND WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE JUDGE, TANYA CHUTKAN, IN THIS CASE? WE KNOW THAT SHE WAS APPOINTED BY THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION. GIVEN THAT SHE HAS PRESIDED OVER JANUARY 6TH, RELATED CASES THAT SHE'S HANDED DOWN VERY STIFF SENTENCES. WE SHOULD POINT OUT THAT THAT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT THAT THAT IS CHARACTERISTIC OF HER COURTROOM ONLY EVERY FEDERAL JUDGE IN THIS DISTRICT HAS PRESIDED OVER A JANUARY 6TH CASE. AND MANY OF THEM, MANY HAVE HANDED DOWN VERY STIFF SENTENCES, INCLUDING REPUBLICAN APPOINTED JUDGES AND JUDGES APPOINTED BY DONALD TRUMP. >> YEAH, LOOK, WHEN YOU LOOK AT HER BACKGROUND, RIGHT, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE WHO OVERSAW PUBLIC DEFENDER'S OFFICE, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT TYPICALLY WHO DONALD TRUMP WOULD PROBABLY GOING TO WANT AS THE JUDGE. BUT THE BIGGER PICTURE QUESTION IS HOW MUCH POWER, HOW MUCH CHAIN CAN THE JUDGE MAKE IN THIS CASE? HOW MUCH INFLUENCE CAN THE JUDGE HAVE? THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT THIS JUDGE IS GOING TO HAVE CONTROL OVER IS THE TIMING. IT IS CLEAR THAT JACK SMITH AND THE SPECIAL COUNSEL WANT TO MOVE THIS QUICKLY. IT IS CLEAR THAT DONALD TRUMP'S LAWYER BELIEVES THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A VERY LONG PROCESS TO PREPARE FOR TRIAL. THAT'S GOING TO BE THE FIRST ISSUE THAT SHE HAS TO RESOLVE AND THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE IN THE SHORT TERM IS HOW MUCH TIME YOU GIVE THE DEFENDANT TO PREPARE VERSUS WHAT IS AN APPROPRIATE AMOUNT OF TIME TO KEEP THIS THING MOVING WITH VOTERS KNOWING THEY HAVE TO MAKE A BIG DECISION IN 2024. RIGHT. DOES IT HAPPEN BEFORE THE 2024 ELECTION? >> AND DOES IT? >> YOU KNOW, I INITIALLY I THOUGHT, YES, BUT THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE I HAVE TALKED TO, INCLUDING SOME WHO HAVE PRACTICED IN HER COURT, THINK THAT IT'S LIKELY THAT IT WON'T. OH, INTERESTING. YEAH. I MEAN, I STILL THINK THAT IF SHE DECIDES SHE WANTS TO MOVE THIS QUICKLY, SHE'LL BE ABLE TO. BUT WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE IS IF SHE STARTS MOVING THIS QUICKLY, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE THE TRUMP TEAM TRYING AND APPEALING AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE FOR ANY RULINGS, ASKING FOR PERMISSION TO APPEAL PARTICULAR RULINGS. ET CETERA. IN AN EFFORT TO FURTHER DELAY THE CASE, YOU KNOW, IT REALLY IS. THIS IS THIS IS ONE OF THESE THINGS WHERE THERE IS NO WAY TO ANSWER THE QUESTION DEFINITIVELY. YOU HAVE TO LET IT PLAY OUT AND SEE HOW SERIOUS IS SHE ABOUT MOVING THIS REALLY QUICKLY AND THAT AND THAT IS THE ULTIMATE INTERSECTION OF POLITICS AND LAW. >> I WANT TO BRING IN SARAH ISGUR, WHO WAS WITH THE TRUMP JUSTICE DEPARTMENT AND, SARAH, I'M CURIOUS, HOW MUCH OF AN IMPACT DO YOU BELIEVE THE JUDGE COULD HAVE ON THIS CASE? >> WELL, YOU KNOW, AFTER THE JUDGE WAS SELECTED DOWN IN FLORIDA, THERE WAS A LOT OF CONVERSATION ABOUT WHETHER THAT WAS TOO FRIENDLY TO DONALD TRUMP. AND SOMETHING I POINTED OUT AT THE TIME WAS THAT IN FACT, THIS CAN BE A PROBLEM FOR A TEAM. YOU KNOW, YOU GET EVERYTHING YOU'RE ASKING FOR, THEN THERE'S NO REAL ISSUES FOR APPEAL HERE. I THINK TRUMP'S DEFENSE TEAM MAY WELL SEE AN OPPORTUNITY WITH A JUDGE WHO WOULD OTHERWISE BE HOSTILE TO THEM. THEY'RE GOING TO THROW 99 RIDICULOUS MOTIONS AT THIS JUDGE TO THE POINT THAT YOU CAN GET INTO A SENSE THAT ALL OF THEIR LEGAL ARGUMENTS ARE MERITLESS. BUT NUMBER 100, SHE RULES AGAINST THEM. THERE'S YOUR ARGUMENT FOR APPEAL. WELL, AS DAN WAS SAYING, THERE'S YOUR ABILITY TO DELAY THIS TRIAL FURTHER. SO SHE'S GOING TO HAVE TO STAY ON HER TOES AS WELL. >> AND SARAH, YOU'RE AN OBSERVER, OBVIOUSLY, OF THE JUSTICE SYSTEM, HAVING WORKED IN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION BEFORE THAT. IT'S IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT, AS WE DID JUST MOMENTS AGO, THAT ALL OF THE JUDGES IN THIS DISTRICT HAVE PRESIDED OVER JANUARY 6TH RELATED CASES HERE. >> ABSOLUTELY. AND YOU KNOW, THIS JUDGE, I THINK, HAS OVERSEEN 58 SUCH TRIALS WHILE DONALD TRUMP HAS NOT BEEN INDICTED FOR THE VIOLENCE RELATED TO JANUARY 6TH, THE INSURRECTION AT THE CAPITOL, LIKE THOSE DEFENSE COUNTS HAVE, THESE JUDGES ARE ALL INTIMATELY FAMILIAR WITH WHAT HAPPENED THAT DAY. FROM A LEGAL STANDPOINT AS WELL. SO IN SOME SENSE, THAT'S ALREADY BAKED INTO DONALD TRUMP'S TRIAL, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE PROSECUTION ACTUALLY HAS CHARGED HERE. >> AND ASHA RANGAPPA, FORMER ASSOCIATE DEAN OF YALE LAW SCHOOL, A LEGAL PROFESSOR, WILL BE CHECKING IN WITH HER A BIT LATER FOR HER PERSPECTIVE, BECAUSE THE QUESTION FOR SO LONG HAS BEEN, WOULD IT BE SIMPLY THE PEOPLE WHO SHOWED UP AND MARCHED ON THE CAPITOL AT THE REQUEST OF THEIR FORMER PRESIDENT, WHO WAS STANDING BEFORE THEM AND SAYING, WE MUST, IN SO MANY WORDS, TAKE BACK OUR COUNTRY? WE REPORTED ON IT, ON ON THAT DAY. BUT JOHN, CARL, A LOT OF PEOPLE ASKED, WILL THOSE WHO DELIVERED THAT MESSAGE BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE OR AT LEAST PROSECUTED FOR THOSE WORDS AND ACTIONS? THE STRATEGY LEADING UP TO JANUARY 6TH? OR WOULD IT BE SIMPLY THE PEOPLE WHO, YOU KNOW, TOOK ACTION ON THAT DAY AT THE CAPITOL, BROKE WINDOWS, TOOK AIM AT OFFICERS WHO WERE GATHERED THERE AND WE SAW MAKE THEIR WAY THROUGH THE THROUGH THE HALLWAYS OF THE CAPITOL TO NANCY PELOSI'S OFFICE, FOR EXAMPLE. AND IN THIS CASE, IT'S A QUESTION NOT ONLY MANY AMERICANS HAVE ASKED, BUT EVEN SOME OF THE OFFICERS WHO CAME UNDER ATTACK ON THAT DAY. >> YEAH, AND LET'S LOOK AT KEVIN MCCARTHY'S WORDS. I MEAN, THE NOW REPUBLICAN SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE, WHO WAS THEN THE REPUBLICAN LEADER IN THE HOUSE ON JANUARY 13TH, EXACTLY ONE WEEK AFTER THE ATTACK, STOOD UP IN THE IN THE WELL OF THE HOUSE AND SAID DONALD TRUMP BEARS RESPONSE ABILITY FOR WHAT HAPPENED HERE. IT WAS GLARINGLY OBVIOUS THAT THE PEOPLE WERE AT THE CAPITOL BECAUSE OF DONALD TRUMP. I MEAN, THEY WERE CAN CARRYING TRUMP BANNERS AND TRUMP FLAGS THEY DRAPED MASSIVE TRUMP FLAGS OVER THE EASTERN FRONT OF THE CAPITOL RIGHT BY WHERE THEY BARGED THROUGH AND BROKE PAST CAPITOL POLICE OFFICERS TO GET INTO THE BUILDING. HE WAS THEY WERE THERE. WHETHER OR NOT YOU THINK IT WAS INCITING IT AS A AS A IN THE LEGAL SENSE OF THAT WORD, THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT THEY WERE THERE BECAUSE HE ASKED THEM TO BE THERE. AND ONE OF THE THINGS JACK SMITH DOES IN THIS IN THIS INDICTMENT POINT IS HE GOES THROUGH ALL THE TIMES IN THE WEEKS LEADING UP TO JANUARY 6TH WHERE HE ASKED PEOPLE TO COME TO WASHINGTON, THE FAMOUS TWEET ON DECEMBER 19TH, WHERE HE TELLS PEOPLE TO COME AND SAYS IT WILL BE WILD. BUT THERE WERE MANY OTHER EXAMPLES. ALL'S OF THAT. SO YES, WE'VE HAD ALL THESE OTHERS. THE FOOT SOLDIERS, IF YOU WILL. BUT NOW WE AT LAST TWO AND A HALF YEARS LATER HAVE THE PERSON THAT WAS AT THE AT THE YOU KNOW, THAT WAS REALLY CALLING THE SHOTS. IF NOT THE SHOTS IN TERMS OF THE VIOLENCE ON THE HILL, CERTAINLY CALLING THE SHOTS IN TERMS OF THE OVERALL EFFORT TO OVERTURN TURN THE ELECTION RESULTS. >> AND WE HEARD IT SO MANY TIMES, JOHN, AND COVERING THESE CASES THAT EACH ONE OF THEM AND WHEN YOU HEAR THOSE NUMBERS, YOU KNOW, HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF CASES, YOU MENTIONED FOOT SOLDIERS IN LAY TERMS. THESE WERE SUPPORTERS OF DONALD TRUMP WHO TIME AND TIME AGAIN SAID, YOU KNOW, WE WERE FOLLOWING THE WORDS OF OUR PRESIDENT. WE WERE WE WERE DOING WHAT HE HAD ASKED US TO DO. AND QUITE FRANKLY, WE SUPPORTED HIM. THAT WAS THEIR DEFENSE. AND WE HAVE THAT MOMENT ON JANUARY SIXTH. YOU KNOW, THERE WERE MANY MOMENTS LEADING UP TO JANUARY SIXTH, BUT OF COURSE, THERE WAS WHAT HE SAID THAT MORNING, AND LET'S LISTEN. >> WE'RE GOING TO WALK DOWN AND I'LL BE THERE WITH YOU BECAUSE YOU'LL NEVER TAKE BACK OUR COUNTRY WITH WEAKNESS. YOU HAVE TO SHOW STRENGTH AND YOU HAVE TO BE STRONG. WE FIGHT LIKE HELL. AND IF YOU DON'T FIGHT LIKE HELL, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE A COUNTRY ANYMORE. >> AND I'LL BE THERE WITH YOU. AND OF COURSE, JOHN, ALSO IN THE INDICTMENT, EVEN THOUGH THERE ARE NO CHARGES FOR INSURRECTION PER SE, BUT IN THE INDICTMENT, THEY DETAIL HOW LONG THE PRESIDENT SPENT IN THE WHITE HOUSE IN THAT ROOM OFF OF THE OVAL, WATCHING ALL OF THIS UNFOLD AND NOT TAKING ACTION TO TRY TO HALT IT. >> NOW, IT'S IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT AND TRUMP SUPPORTERS WILL SAY THIS EVERY TIME THAT SOUND IS PLAYED, THAT TRUMP ALSO IN THAT SPEECH SAID FOR PEOPLE TO BE PEACEFUL RIGHT NOW, IT WAS ONE LINE WHERE HE MENTIONED BEING PEACEFUL AND IT WAS MANY, MANY OTHER LINES WHERE HE TALKED ABOUT FIGHTING LIKE HELL. AND WE HAVE TO TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK. BUT BUT HE DID SAY PEACEFUL. BUT WHAT THIS DOCUMENT DOES IS IT TALKS NOT ONLY ABOUT WHAT TRUMP DID WHILE THE ATTACK WAS UNDERWAY, WHICH IS DO NOTHING TO STOP IT UNTIL FINALLY, AT 417 THAT AFTERNOON WHEN MORE THAN TWO HOURS AFTER THE CAPITOL HAS BEEN BREACHED, THE BARRICADES HAVE BEEN HAVE BEEN BREACHED, HE TELLS PEOPLE TO GO HOME. BUT EVEN AS HE TELLS PEOPLE TO GO HOME, HE SAYS, YOU, WE LOVE YOU. YOU ARE VERY SPECIAL. BUT WHAT JACKSON DOES IS HE TALKS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THE VIOLENCE TOOK PLACE AND AFTER THE CAPITOL WAS CLEARED OF THE PROTESTERS. WHAT DID DONALD TRUMP DO? HE CONTINUED TO IN THE ALLEGATION HERE IN THIS INDICTMENT, TRY TO EXPLOIT THE VIOLENCE AND TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE CHAOS AT THE CAPITOL BY CALLING LAWMAKERS TO TELL THEM TO CONTINUE TO STOP, TRY TO STOP THE CERTIFICATION OF THE ELECTION. AND, DAVID, THIS IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT'S A SERIES OF PHONE CALLS THAT ARE PLACED BY TRUMP FROM THE WHITE HOUSE, FROM THE WEST WING AND BY RUDY GIULIANI. HIS PRIMARY LAWYER AT THIS POINT. AND IT TALKS ABOUT AT 6 P.M. REMEMBER, THE CAPITOL WAS CLEARED. BY NOW, HE TRIES TO REACH OUT TO TWO UNITED STATES SENATORS. AND THEN FROM 659 TO 718, AGAIN, THE CAPITOL HAS BEEN CLEARED. THEY HAVEN'T STARTED TO RE THEY HAVEN'T STARTED THE CERTIFICATION PROCESS AGAIN YET . BUT COCONSPIRATOR NUMBER ONE, THAT'S RUDY GIULIANI PLACES CALLS TO FIVE UNITED STATES SENATORS AND ONE US REPRESENTATIVE. AND IT GOES THROUGH AND TALKS ABOUT WHAT WAS SAID ON THOSE CALLS BECAUSE GIULIANI ACTUALLY MISTAKENLY LEFT A VOICEMAIL MESSAGE ON THE WRONG SENATOR'S PHONE AND IN THAT MESSAGE, HE'S ASKING THEM DELAY. DELAY. DELAY THE PROCEEDINGS. DON'T LET THEM CERTIFY BIDEN'S VICTORY YET. WE'RE STILL BRINGING IN EVIDENCE . AND THE WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL THAT EVENING, PAT CIPOLLONE, GETS WIND THAT THESE CALLS ARE GOING ON. I MEAN, AGAIN, THIS IS AFTER THE RIOT. THIS IS AFTER THE CAPITOL HAS BEEN ATTACKED AND THEY'RE STILL MAKING THIS CALL. THEY'RE STILL TRYING TO STOP THE CERTIFICATION. CIPOLLONE THE WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL, THE TOP LAWYER IN THE WHITE HOUSE, CONFRONTS DONALD TRUMP ABOUT THIS AND ASKS HIM, PLEASE DROP THE OBJECTIONS. IT'S OVER. AND ACCORDING TO THIS INDICTMENT THAT TRUMP REFUSED, JOHN KARL REPORTING OUT A KEY PART OF THIS INDICTMENT, WHICH IS JUST ONE MORE EXAMPLE. >> ALL OF WHAT JACK SMITH AND HIS TEAM HAVE UNCOVERED THERE ARE SEVERAL EXAMPLES OF THIS IN THIS 45 PAGE, WHAT THEY CALL A SPEAKING INDICTMENT, WRITTEN ESSENTIALLY IN LANGUAGE THAT ALL OF US CAN UNDERSTAND. THE VOTERS AT HOME ACROSS THIS COUNTRY. HE CAME OUT BEFORE THE CAMERAS AND ASKED THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, AS HE DID WITH THE MAR A LAGO CASE, TO READ THIS INDICTMENT AS PURPOSELY BEEN WRITTEN IN TERMS THAT ALL OF US CAN UNDERSTAND, NOT THOSE OF US WITH A LEGAL DEGREE, A LAW DEGREE. THANK YOU, DAN ABRAMS, THOUGH, FOR BEING HERE. ANYWAY, YOU HELP US ALONG EVERY STEP OF THE WAY. BUT AGAIN , JOHN KARL POINTING OUT AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT JACK SMITH HAS UNCOVERED. THE QUESTION IS HOW MUCH MORE DOES HE HAVE AND HOW LITTLE IS HE GOING TO SHOW TO MAKE THE CASE AND THEN PRESENT THROUGH THE COURSE OF DISCOVERY AS THIS MOVES FORWARD, AS DAN RIGHTLY POINTS OUT, THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE A SURPRISE FOR THE DEFENDANT. YOU KNOW, THE FORMER PRESIDENT ONCE THE TRIAL BEGINS. BUT IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THAT JACK SMITH IS GOING TO PRESENT EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW BEFORE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. WE DO KNOW, AS YOU LOOK AT LIVE PICTURES THERE AT THE FEDERAL COURTHOUSE IN WASHINGTON, THAT JACK SMITH, THE SPECIAL COUNSEL, IS IN THE COURTROOM. HE IS THERE ALONG WITH THE FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP, AND THE TWO LAWYERS WHO ARE GOING TO BE SEATED BESIDE THE FORMER PRESIDENT, JOHN LAURO AND TODD BLANCH. NOW, WE KNOW THE PRESIDENT TRAVELED DOWN WITH A TEAM OF FOUR, ALTHOUGH IN THE MOTORCADE ITSELF, TRAVELING FROM REAGAN AIRPORT TO THE COURTHOUSE . IS DONALD TRUMP TRAVELING ALONE, JUST AS HE DID IN SOUTH FLORIDA. THAT WAS REPORTED OUT EARLIER BY OUR TEAM. JOHN SANTUCCI ACTUALLY REPORTING OUT THAT THAT IS THE WAY THE FORMER PRESIDENT PREFERS TO DO THIS IN THESE MOMENTS. AND NOW THERE HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF THEM, WHICH IS ANOTHER THING TO SORT OF TAKE INTO ACCOUNT AS WE WITNESS WHAT'S PLAYING OUT ON THIS DAY. THERE YOU SEE IT ON THE SCREEN THERE. OBVIOUSLY, JACK SMITH, THE SPECIAL COUNSEL IN THIS CASE FROM UPSTATE NEW YORK, WENT TO SUNY ONEONTA HERE IN NEW YORK BEFORE GOING TO HARVARD LAW. WE KNOW HIS LEGAL BACKGROUND, TRIED WAR CRIMES AT THE HAGUE BEFORE BEING APPOINTED BY MERRICK GARLAND AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL. AND WE KNOW THAT THAT APPOINTMENT CAME AMID THE TALK THAT DONALD TRUMP WAS GOING TO BE RUNNING FOR OFFICE AGAIN, RUNNING FOR THE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENCY AGAIN. AND THAT'S WHEN THE ATTORNEY GENERAL CAME OUT PUBLICLY AND SAID WE NEED TO DISTANCE THIS JUSTICE DEPARTMENT FROM THIS INVESTIGATION. WE ARE NAMING A SPECIAL COUNSEL AND JACK SMITH WAS THEN NAMED ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE OF YOUR SCREEN. THERE IS THE TRUMP DEFENSE TEAM AGAIN, TRAVELING WITH SEVERAL LAWYERS. BUT THOSE ARE THE TWO LAWYERS WHO WILL BE SEATED AND BESIDE THE FORMER PRESIDENT. THE FACT THAT JACK SMITH IS IN THAT COURTROOM TODAY, NOT A SURPRISE TO YOU, PIERRE THOMAS, BUT IT DOES SIGNAL SOMETHING IMPORTANT. >> TWO THINGS. AGAIN HE WANTS TO EMPHASIZE TO THE PRESIDENT, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, I'M THE ONE WHO DID THIS AND I'M GOING TO PROSECUTE YOU FULLY BEFORE A JURY. SECONDLY IT'S A SIGN OF SUPPORT TO HIS STAFF THAT I BELIEVE IN WHAT YOU'VE DONE. I BELIEVE IN THE WORK OF THE FBI. I'M HERE TO SAY WE STAND BY THE CASE. WE'RE CONFIDENT IN OUR CASE. YOU DO THAT. IT'S RARE FOR SOMEONE OF HIS LEVEL TO BE IN THE COURTROOM AT THIS STAGE. THE OTHER THING, DAVID, THAT I WAS STRUCK BY, AS WE'VE BEEN WATCHING THIS UNFOLD , SOURCE SAID TO ME, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THIS INDICTMENT, YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT TWO THINGS. NUMBER ONE, WHAT HAPPENS IF THINGS UNFOLDED, IF THE WAY FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP WANTED THEM TO? WHAT HAPPEN IS, IF MIKE PENCE SAYS, I WILL NOT CERTIFY THE ELECTION, WHAT HAPPENS IF THE FAKE ELECTORS ARE ALLOWED TO FORM AND BE COUNTED? THE SOURCE SAID THE COUNTRY WOULD HAVE BEEN PARALYZED AND PARALYZED. IMAGINE DAY AFTER DAY WITH THIS NOT CERTIFIED AND THE COUNTRY IN LIMBO AND THE SOURCE SAID JACK SMITH AND THE TEAM FOCUSED ON THAT AS WELL, THAT IF THIS HAD UNFOLDED THE WAY DONALD TRUMP WANTED TO UNFOLD, THE COUNTRY WOULD HAVE BEEN PERHAPS IN CHAOS . AND THE OTHER THING IS, A FEW MOMENTS BEFORE WE WENT TO AIR, I TOOK THE OPPORTUNITY TO GIVE A CALL TO HARRY DUNN, ONE OF THE OFFICERS WHO WAS IS INJURED, NOT INJURED, BUT INJURED PSYCHOLOGICALLY BY THAT DAY. AND HE SAID HE PLANNED TO GET OFF WORK AND TO GO DOWN TO THE COURTHOUSE. HE WASN'T SURE IF HE WOULD BE ABLE TO GET INTO THE COURTHOUSE. AND, DAVID, I WAS STRUCK BY THE FACT THAT THIS MAN IS STILL LIVING WITH THE IMAGES OF THAT DAY, THE FIGHTING THAT HE TOOK PART IN BEING CALLED THE N WORD MULTIPLE TIMES THAT DAY, THE TEAR GAS THAT HE DESCRIBED, ASKING THE QUESTION, IS THIS AMERICA? AND THE FACT THAT HE STILL DEALING WITH THIS AND WANTS TO BE AT THE COURTHOUSE TODAY REALLY STRUCK ME BECAUSE IT'S A REMINDER, 140 PLUS OFFICERS WERE INJURED THAT DAY. AND WHAT THEY DESCRIBED AS MEDIEVAL CONFLICT, HAND TO HAND CONFLICT. AND THERE'S STILL THE PERSONAL AND EMOTIONAL TOLL THAT THAT DAY TOOK. >> WE HAVE JUST LEARNED THAT THE FORMER PRESIDENT, DONALD TRUMP, IS NOW IN THE COURTROOM. WE KNOW JACK SMITH, THE SPECIAL COUNSEL IN THAT COURTROOM AS WELL. WE KNOW THAT TWO ATTORNEYS HAVE JOINED THE FORMER PRESIDENT AT THE DEFENDANT'S TABLE AND JOHN SANTUCCI, YOU HAVE BEEN REPORTING FROM SOURCES VERY CLOSE TO DONALD TRUMP. WHAT THIS FORMER PRESIDENT AND THIS LEGAL TEAM IS MOST NERVOUS ABOUT. >> YEAH, DAVID, THE BIGGEST THING FOR TEAM TRUMP RIGHT NOW IS THE INDICTMENT AND THE UNNAMED COCONSPIRATORS, THE SIX OF THEM. SO, DAVID, LIKE US, LIKE WE'VE BEEN REPORTING OUT, TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO IT IS. DONALD TRUMP'S TEAM RIGHT NOW HAS BEEN DOING THE SAME THING FOR THE LAST SEVERAL DAYS OVER AT BEDMINSTER. THEY'VE BEEN TRYING TO PIECE TOGETHER WHO THE OTHER INDIVIDUALS ARE. AND AS ONE SOURCE SAID TO ME, THE THING HONESTLY RIGHT NOW, GOD FORBID ONE OF THEM IS ANOTHER. MICHAEL COHEN. AND WHAT I MEAN BY THAT, DAVID, IS MICHAEL COHEN, AS WE ALL FAMOUSLY KNOW, WAS DONALD TRUMP'S FIXER. ANYTHING THAT DONALD TRUMP NEEDED TAKEN CARE OF? MICHAEL COHEN PROUDLY SAY, PUT ME IN. I THINK HE ONCE DESCRIBED HIMSELF AS DONALD TRUMP'S PIT BULL. THAT PIT BULL FLIPPED ON DONALD TRUMP. HE'S PART OF THE REASON WHY MANY OF DONALD TRUMP'S LEGAL TROUBLES HAVE COME TO FRUITION. SO RIGHT NOW, DAVID, THE PROBLEM FOR TEAM TRUMP IS THAT COMMUNICATION WITH SOME OF THE FOLKS OF THE SIX IS STILL GOOD. THERE'S STILL A RELATIONSHIP WITH RUDY GIULIANI. OBVIOUSLY THE TWO OF THEM HAVE BEEN FRIENDS FOR NEARLY 30 YEARS. BUT WITH THE OTHER INDIVIDUALS, DAVID, THAT IS A CONCERN RIGHT NOW FOR TEAM TRUMP. OBVIOUSLY THOSE CONVERSATIONS THAT WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT WITH PIERRE, JOHN AND DAN, THOSE ARE THE SCENES. THOSE ARE THE PROBLEM INCIDENTS, IF YOU WILL. JACK SMITH'S INDICTMENT LAYS IT OUT VERY CLEAR. SO THOSE ARE THE MOMENTS THAT ARE A PROBLEM. AND IF ONE PERSON CROSSES OVER, IF YOU WILL, AND SAYS SOMETHING THAT COULD CAUSE DONALD TRUMP EVEN MORE PROBLEMS, AND THAT'S WHEN THIS IS GOING TO GET SERIOUS. >> JOHN, I'M CURIOUS WHO YOU THINK THE TRUMP TEAM IS MOST CONCERNED ABOUT. IS IT MARK MEADOWS, THE FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF? WE KNOW WE HAVE SEEN HIM JUST BRIEFLY IN RECENT DAYS BEING PRESSED BY REPORTERS ON CAPITOL HILL GOING INTO A DOORWAY. WHAT DID HE SAY TO THE SPECIAL COUNSEL? WHAT DID HE SAY BEFORE THE GRAND JURY? OBVIOUSLY MAKING NO COMMENT. AND NO ONE REALLY HAS HEARD FROM MARK MEADOWS IN QUITE SOME TIME, WHICH MUST BE ONE OF THE EXAMPLES OF PEOPLE THEY'RE MOST CONCERNED ABOUT. >> DAVID, I DON'T THINK ANYBODY COULD BE CROSSED OFF THAT BINGO BOARD. AND AGAIN, LOOK AT MICHAEL COHEN AS AN EXAMPLE. MANY PEOPLE SAID TO ME IN REAL TIME WHEN THAT STARTED YEARS AGO, OH, WE'RE FINE, MIKE, MICHAEL WOULD NEVER GO AGAINST HIM. LOOK WHAT HAPPENED. MARK MEADOWS, ANY OF THEM. RUDY I THINK ANYONE IS A POSSIBILITY. DAVID IF ANYONE COULD AVOID GOING TO JAIL, NOBODY'S GOING TO DO IT. I THINK THE ONLY PERSON THAT HAS EVER REMAINED SILENT SO FAR IS PAUL MANAFORT. LOOK WHAT HAPPENED. HE DID GO TO JAIL. IT TOOK HIM SEVERAL MONTHS, ALMOST I THINK TWO YEARS LATER TO GET A PARDON FROM DONALD TRUMP. HERE'S THE PROBLEM. IN THIS NEW WORLD ORDER, DONALD TRUMP CAN'T GIVE ANYBODY A PARDON. HE IS NOT THE PRESIDENT. RIGHT NOW. DAVID. SO IF ANYONE WAS TO FALL IN LINE AT THE END OF THE DAY, THEY'RE LEFT ALL ON THEIR OWN. >> A REMARKABLE SCENE PLAYING OUT IN WASHINGTON, D.C. AT THIS HOUR. RELATIVELY CALM CROWD GATHERED. THERE. YOU CAN SEE TRUMP FLAGS FLYING. JOHN SANTUCCI REPORTING HERE MOMENTS AGO THAT THE TRUMP TEAM MOST CONCERNED ABOUT THOSE WHO COULD FLIP ON THE PRESIDENT, THAT FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP, THEY HAVE TRIED TO ENGAGE HIM AND REMAIN IN CONTACT WITH MANY WHO WERE IN THAT INNER CIRCLE, PARTICULARLY IN THOSE FINAL WEEKS LEADING UP TO JANUARY 6TH. AS JOHN POINTS OUT, THE CONVERSATIONS CONTINUE WITH SOME, BUT NOT WITH OTHERS, WHICH ALWAYS MAKES YOU WONDER IF YOU'RE PART OF A LEGAL TEAM, A DEFENSE TEAM. WHAT WHAT COULD BE PLAYING OUT WITH SOME OF THOSE KEY PLAYERS? MARY BRUCE SITTING HERE AT THE DESK WITH US AND MARY, THE OTHER JUXTAPOSITION WHEN, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THE CROWDS GATHERED ON JANUARY 6TH AND NOW INSTEAD IN THIS VERY SAME PLACE, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE NOW SEEING INSTEAD OF THOSE WHO ARE MARCHING ON THE CAPITOL. THE OTHER COMPARISON, THOUGH, FROM JANUARY 6TH IS WHAT WE HEARD FROM REPUBLICAN LEADERS IN THE 24 HOURS AFTER WHAT WE WITNESSED AT THE CAPITOL. JOHN KARL MENTIONED IT EARLIER, KEVIN MCCARTHY AMONG THOSE WHO SPOKE OUT MOST FORCEFULLY ABOUT WHAT HE BELIEVED WAS WRONG, UNJUST AND THAT DONALD TRUMP SHOULD BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT PLAYED OUT AT THE CAPITOL. FAST FORWARD TO NOW AND A VERY DIFFERENT MESSAGE WE'RE HEARING NOT ONLY FROM SPEAKER MCCARTHY, BUT FROM THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AS A WHOLE ON CAPITOL HILL, THE COMPLETE TURNAROUND IS NOTHING SHORT OF ASTOUNDING. >> I THINK, WHEN YOU CONSIDER WHAT WE ARE SEEING TODAY AND WHAT PLAYED OUT IN THE DAYS IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE ATTACK ON THE CAPITOL, I THINK BACK TO INAUGURATION DAY, DONALD TRUMP LEFT WASHINGTON A POLITICAL PARIAH. I REMEMBER SITTING THERE IN FRONT OF THE CAPITOL AS THE CEREMONY WAS GOING ON, LOOKING UP AND SEEING DONALD TRUMP'S HELICOPTER DOING A FLYOVER AS HE LEFT WASHINGTON. OF COURSE, NOT ATTENDING THAT CEREMONY, THE FIRST PRESIDENT IN 150 YEARS NOT TO ATTEND THE CEREMONIAL TRANSFER OF POWER. HE WAS DRIVEN OUT OF TOWN. YOU SAW REPUBLICAN LEADERS, INCLUDING KEVIN MCCARTHY, SAYING POINT BLANK THAT HE BORE RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT HAD HAPPENED AT THE CAPITOL THAT DAY. FLASH FORWARD TO TODAY AND DONALD TRUMP IS RETURNING TO WASHINGTON, NOT IN A WAY THAT HE HAD HOPED. CLEARLY, THIS IS NOT HIS OWN INAUGURATION. HE'S NOW BEING ARRAIGNED FOR THE THIRD TIME IN LESS THAN FOUR MONTHS, BUT HE IS RETURNING DEFIANT. THE OVERWHELMING FRONTRUNNER IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY WITH THE SUPPORT AND BACKING OF LEADERS LIKE KEVIN MCCARTHY, WHO ARE NOW COMING TO HIS DEFENSE, GETTING IN LINE WITH DONALD TRUMP'S ARGUMENT THAT THIS IS ALL POLITICALLY MOTIVATED, THAT THIS IS A POLITICAL VENDETTA, THAT THIS IS SIMPLY JOE BIDEN AND DEMOCRATS TRYING TO WEAPONIZE THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. IT IS A REMARKABLE TURN OF EVENTS AND I HAVE TO SAY, YOU KNOW, AS A LIFELONG WASHINGTONIAN, IT'S PRETTY REMARKABLE TO SEE THESE SCENES. YOU KNOW, THIS WAS A CITY THAT, LIKE THE COUNTRY, WAS COMPLETELY ROCKED BY JANUARY 6TH. WE ALL REMEMBER THE NATIONAL GUARD COMING IN. WE REMEMBER THE BARRICADE THAT WERE PUT UP AROUND THE CAPITOL FOR WEEKS. AND THAT IS ANOTHER CONCERN OF THE TRUMP LEGAL TEAM HERE, THAT THE JURY THAT THEY ARE GOING TO FACE CONCERNED THAT THIS WILL NOT BE A FAVORABLE JURY TO HIM, THAT THEY LIVED THROUGH THIS PERSONALLY, PERSONALLY, IT IS VERY RAW FOR MANY WASHINGTONIANS. STILL. >> I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE CURRENT PRESIDENT, JOE BIDEN, WHO HAS TALKED INFREQUENTLY ABOUT DONALD TRUMP USING HIS NAME AS IT PERTAINS TO THESE FEDERAL CRIMINAL INDICTMENTS. HE HAS TALKED LOOSELY ABOUT WHAT PLAYED OUT ON JANUARY 6TH. IT'S THE AMONG THE FIRST KEY IMAGES OF THE CAMPAIGN LAUNCH, HIS LAUNCH FOR REELECTION ON. BUT HE HASN'T TALKED SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE FORMER PRESIDENT. WE HAVE LEARNED THAT THIS WAS PART OF THE DISCUSSION WITH FORMER PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA, WHO, OF COURSE, JOE BIDEN SERVED UNDER AS VICE PRESIDENT WHEN THEY HAD LUNCH JUST IN RECENT DAYS. AND FORMER PRESIDENT OBAMA HAD CONCERNS GIVEN THE NUMBERS WERE LOOKING AT IN THIS COUNTRY RIGHT NOW, IF WE CAN SHOW THE POLLING AS WE LOOK AT THIS LIVE PICTURE, THE CURRENT POLLING, WHERE IT STANDS FROM THE NEW YORK TIMES THIS WEEK, THE NEW YORK TIMES SIENA POLL SHOWING THAT DONALD TRUMP AND JOE BIDEN, IF THE ELECTION WERE HELD THIS WEEK RIGHT NOW, IT IS A DEAD HEAT IN THIS COUNTRY, 43, 43. YOU READ A LITTLE DEEPER INTO THE DATA POINTS. IT SHOWS A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO WERE NOT HAPPY WITH DONALD TRUMP, WITH WHAT THEY WITNESSED JANUARY 6TH, HINTING THAT THEY WOULD NOT VOTE FOR HIM AGAIN, BUT NOT WILLING AND NOT WILLING TO SAY THEY WOULD VOTE FOR JOE BIDEN. SO THERE IS A LITTLE BIT OF ROOM IN THAT POLLS. I KNOW THE DEMOCRATS WILL POINT TO, ALTHOUGH YOU HAVE TO WONDER IF YOU'RE THE SITTING PRESIDENT. THIS IS THE THIRD INDICTMENT OF DONALD TRUMP. YOU HAVE THE IMAGES OF JANUARY 6TH AND YOU'RE STILL IN A DEAD HEAT, 4343. AND THIS IS WHY THE FORMER PRESIDENT, BARACK OBAMA, IS SO CONCERNED. WELL, LOOK AT FACE VALUE. >> YOU WOULD THINK YOUR POLITICAL RIVAL HAS NOW BEEN INDICTED THREE TIMES. YOU WOULD BE ATTACKING HIM ON IT. JOE BIDEN ISN'T DOING THAT. HE IS STAYING FAR AWAY FROM ALL OF THIS BECAUSE HE IS WELL AWARE THAT DONALD TRUMP IS CAMPAIGNING OFF OF ALL OF THIS. AND JOE BIDEN DOESN'T WANT TO SAY ANYTHING THAT WOULD FUEL TRUMP'S ARGUMENT THAT THIS IS SOMEHOW POLITICALLY MOTIVATED. SO INSTEAD, THE WHITE HOUSE STRESSES OVER AND OVER AGAIN THE INDEPENDENCE OF THIS JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. BUT THERE ARE CLEARLY CONCERNS AND BARACK OBAMA IN A LUNCH RECENTLY REPORTEDLY SAID TO THE PRESIDENT , YOU KNOW, THAT HE IS CONCERNED ABOUT TRUMP'S POLITICAL DOMINANCE. THAT'S NOT TO SAY THAT HE'S CONCERNED ABOUT JOE BIDEN'S ABILITY HERE IN THIS CAMPAIGN, BUT THAT HE IS CONCERNED ABOUT HOW DONALD TRUMP CONTINUES TO JUST SOAR IN THE POLLS. AND THOSE NUMBERS, 43. THAT IS A VERY CLOSE, VERY CONCERNING MATCHUP, I THINK FOR A LOT OF DEMOCRATS. SO BARACK OBAMA IS OFFERING ALL THAT HE CAN TO HELP AND ASSIST IN THIS CAMPAIGN. HE, OF COURSE, IS ONE OF THE MOST POPULAR FULLER SUPERSTAR OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. HAS TO GET HIM OUT THERE AND HELP JOE BIDEN IS SOMETHING THAT I THINK THE BIDEN CAMPAIGN, OF COURSE, WOULD WELCOME. BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE WONDERING, HOW LONG IS JOE BIDEN GOING TO WAIT BEFORE HE GOES AHEAD AND ATTACKS DONALD TRUMP ON THIS? AND OF COURSE, WHILE HE HASN'T GONE AFTER DONALD TRUMP ON THIS, HE CERTAINLY HAS BEEN VERY CLEAR ABOUT WHAT HE THINKS ABOUT TRUMP'S ROLE IN JANUARY SIXTH, THE ATTACKS ON JANUARY 6TH, PLAYING A PROMINENT ROLE IN HIS REELECTION CAMPAIGN IN JOE BIDEN IS ONCE AGAIN ARGUING THAT THIS ELECTION IS ABOUT A BATTLE FOR THE SOUL OF THIS COUNTRY AND THE FACT THAT JANUARY 6TH IS NOW GOING TO BE A DOMINANT TOPIC OF CONVERSATION BECAUSE OF THE WAY THAT THIS CASE IS GOING TO PLAY OUT, I THINK IS SOMETHING THAT WILL JOE BIDEN CERTAINLY HOPES WILL HELP HIM GOING FORWARD. >> A MOVING STRATEGY DAY TO DAY, I'M SURE WITHIN THE WHITE HOUSE AND WITHIN THE BIDEN CAMPAIGN. HOW MUCH TO SAY AND WHEN TO SAY IT. BUT VERY INTERESTING TO HEAR THAT HE HAD LUNCH WITH FORMER PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA, WHO SUGGESTED THAT AT SOME POINT HERE YOU MIGHT HAVE TO ENGAGE MARY BRUCE, THANKS FOR THE REPORTING ON THAT. YOU'RE LOOKING AT LIVE PICTURES AGAIN, THE FEDERAL COURTHOUSE IN WASHINGTON. WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE PROCEEDING IS UNDERWAY. DONALD TRUMP NOW SITTING AT THE DEFENSE TABLE IN THE MIDDLE OF HIS ATTORNEYS, TODD BLANCH AND JOHN LARO, JACK SMITH ALSO IN THAT ROOM, OUR REPORTER IS INSIDE THE COURTROOM REPORTING THAT JACK SMITH COULD BE SEEN LOOKING ACROSS THE ROOM TO THE DEFENDANT. BUT OBVIOUSLY THE FORMER PRESIDENT, DONALD TRUMP, WHILE TRUMP WAS SEEN WHISPERING WITH ONE OF HIS ATTORNEYS, TODD BLANCH, WE'RE TOLD THAT THE FORMER PRESIDENTS HANDS CLASPED AT THE TABLE AND WE HAVE BEEN REMINDED IN THESE SCENARIOS OF THE PUBLIC VERSION OF DONALD TRUMP AND WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT, SORT OF THE BRAVADO, THE POLITICAL TALKING POINTS AND THE SIGNALS OF STRENGTH PUBLICLY BE. AND THEN WHEN YOU LOOK AT THOSE IMAGES FROM INSIDE THE COURTROOM, ALTHOUGH WE DON'T HAVE LIVE CAMERAS, THOUGH, WE'LL GET SKETCHES AFTERWARD. BUT WHEN WE HAVE SEEN INSIDE THE COURTROOM, JOHN SANTUCCI, THAT IS A MUCH DIFFERENT VERSION OF DONALD TRUMP AND SOMEONE WHO YOU CAN SEE GENERALLY IN THEIR FACIAL EXPRESSIONS AND THEIR BODY LANGUAGE THAT THEY UNDERSTAND THE WEIGHT OF WHAT IS PLAYING OUT. >> ABSOLUTELY, DAVID. AND WE'RE LEARNING IN REAL TIME JUST FROM OUR FOLKS THAT ARE ABLE TO WATCH THAT FEED. ALEX MALLIN AND MIKE LEVINE ARE PUTTING OUT REPORTING TO OUR TEAM RIGHT NOW SAYING THAT TRUMP HAS LOOKED AROUND A LITTLE BIT, HAS TALKED TO HIS ATTORNEY, IS, BUT HAS BEEN RATHER SILENT, RESERVED AND DAVID, UNFORTUNATELY WITH FEDERAL COURT THERE ARE NO CAMERAS IN COURT, AS WE KNOW. BUT WE HAVE SEEN THAT IMAGE BEFORE OF DONALD TRUMP AT A DEFENSE TABLE. WE SAW IT AT MANHATTAN. THAT ONE STILL IMAGE OF DONALD TRUMP THERE, RATHER QUIET, RATHER RESERVED. DONALD TRUMP, DAVID, QUITE FRANKLY, THE MOST PEOPLE NEVER GET TO SEE. BUT REGARDLESS, IN ALL THREE INCIDENTS AND FROM OUR TEAM'S REPORTING, THEY CAN SEE INSIDE FEDERAL COURT RIGHT NOW THAT DONALD TRUMP, THE DONALD TRUMP THAT IS SITTING THERE, TAKING IT ALL IN, IT ALL WEIGHING ON HIM, A SILENT DONALD TRUMP. THAT IS THE DONALD TRUMP THAT IS THE COURTROOM GUY. >> JOHN SANTUCCI DESCRIBING WHAT WE HAVE SEEN FROM THE FORMER PRESIDENT BEFORE, ALTHOUGH WE HAVE YET TO HEAR THE FULL READOUT OF HIS DEMEANOR INSIDE THIS COURTROOM, THOUGH, WE JUST HEARD FROM JOHN AND FROM OUR TEAM REPORTING IN THAT HE IS FLANKED BY AN ATTORNEY ON EACH SIDE AND THAT HE IS LOOKING AROUND THE COURTROOM SOMEWHAT. JACK SMITH WITH HIS EYES TRAINED ON THE DEFENDANT, JACK SMITH, OF COURSE, THE SPECIAL COUNSEL, THE FORMER PRESIDENT, BEFORE REACHING THAT COURTROOM WAS PROCESSED. THAT OBVIOUSLY MEANS FINGERPRINTS WERE TAKEN IN THIS CASE, HAD TO GIVE OVER PERSONAL INFORMATION. NO MUGSHOT, NO HANDCUFFS, NEITHER THERE WERE EXPECTED. OBVIOUSLY, WE'RE DEALING WITH ONE OF THE MOST RECOGNIZABLE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD. AND THIS HAS PLAYED OUT BEFORE, SADLY, IN SOUTH FLORIDA AS WELL. AND A VERY SIMILAR SCENE THERE. NO MUGSHOT, NO HANDCUFFS, BECAUSE IT WAS SIMPLY NOT NECESSARY. I WANT TO BRING IN MARTHA RADDATZ IN WASHINGTON WATCHING THIS PLAY OUT WITH US AS WELL. AND MARTHA, JUST TO PICK UP ON THIS DISCUSSION WITH MARY BRUCE A MOMENT AGO AND THE TO THE ABSOLUTE REVERSAL OF WHAT WE SAW FROM REPUBLICAN LEADERS IN THE HOURS AFTER JANUARY 6TH AND WHAT WE'RE HEARING FROM THEM NOW. AND TAKE THAT A STEP FURTHER TO THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES WHO WOULD LIKE TO BEAT DONALD TRUMP FOR THE REPUBLICAN NOMINATION. THE VERY DELICATE DANCE THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT EARLIER THAT THEY'RE PLAYING ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL, SOME THAT HAVE ACTUALLY SAID WE WILL PARDON THE PRESIDENT AND THAT, OF COURSE, INCLUDES DONALD TRUMP. >> IF DONALD TRUMP BECOMES PRESIDENT. AND YOU JUST SAW THOSE POLL NUMBERS, HE HAS SAID HE WILL GIVE A FULL PARDON TO A LARGE PORTION OF THE JANUARY 6TH RIOTERS AND AN APOLOGY FROM THE GOVERNMENT. THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO STORMED THE CAPITOL, WHO BROKE WINDOWS, WHO BEAT UP POLICE OFFICERS WHO WERE CHANTING HANG MIKE PENCE. DONALD TRUMP SAYS HE WILL PARDON THEM IN FACT, THAT IS PART OF HIS CAMPAIGN. AN HE GOES OUT ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL AND THEY RUN A VIDEO. AND IN THAT VIDEO IS WHAT IS CALLED THE J. SIX CHOIR. THE J SIX CHOIR IS 20 MEN WHO ARE IN PRISON RIGHT NOW FOR JANUARY 6TH, SINGING THE NATIONAL ANTHEM . DONALD TRUMP IS PORTRAYING THEM AS POLITICAL PRISONERS AS AND AGAIN, IF HE BECOMES PRESIDENT, HE SAID HE WILL PARDON A LARGE PORTION OF THEM. >> DAVID SOME OF THIS MIRRORS, IT SEEMS, SOME OF THE STORIES YOU'VE COVERED AROUND THE WORLD. MARTHA, WHEN YOU TRAVEL AS OUR FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT AS WELL, SORT OF STRIKING WHEN YOU DESCRIBE THE SINGING FROM BEHIND BARS AND THE PROMISES THAT HAVE BEEN MADE, SHOULD THERE BE A REELECTION. BUT THE LARGER QUESTION HERE AT LEAST IN THIS MOMENT, IS HOW THE WORLD IS WITNESSING IT. WE KNOW OBVIOUSLY , IT WASN'T JUST THE NATION STUNNED BY WHAT PLAYED OUT ON JANUARY 6TH. THE WORLD WAS WATCHING THAT MOMENT. THE SEAT OF DEMOCRACY. YOU KNOW, THE EXAMPLE OF DEMOCRACY. THE UNITED STATES. AND HOW IS THIS BEING VIEWED TODAY AROUND THE WORLD? >> THEY WATCHED ON JANUARY SIXTH AND WERE APPALLED AND ALLIES TODAY ARE APPALLED AS WELL THAT A FORMER PRESIDENT WHO WAS PRESIDENT AT THE TIME HAD THIS ASSAULT ON DEMOCRACY AND IS ACCUSED OF TRYING TO OVERTURN AN ELECTION. THIS REMINDS ME, CERTAINLY OF AUTHORITARIAN REGIMES THAT WE ALWAYS SAY, OH, WELL, MAYBE HE DIDN'T REALLY GET ELECTED. THESE ARE DEVELOPED IN DEVELOPING COUNTRIES. THIS IS THE KIND OF THING THAT HAPPENS. IT DOESN'T HAPPEN IN THE UNITED STATES, BUT IT HAS HAPPENED NOW , I WAS STRUCK, DAVID, TO I WAS THINKING ABOUT THIS A LOT THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS AND HOW THE WORLD VIEWS THIS. I WAS THINKING OF NATO AND THEY HAVE NOT YET INVITED UKRAINE FOR EXAMPLE, TO BE IN NATO BECAUSE THEY HAVE A FEW MORE STEPS TO TAKE WITH THEIR GOVERNMENT. BUT THE NUMBER ONE THING YOU HAVE TO DO TO BE A MEMBER OF NATO IS UPHOLD DEMOCRACY. >> MARTHA RADDATZ WITH US HERE THIS AFTERNOON. MARTHA, THANK YOU AS ALWAYS FOR YOUR INSIGHT. I WANT TO BRING IN OUR SENIOR POLITICAL DIRECTOR, RICK KLEIN, WHO YOU AT HOME WILL KNOW FROM ELECTION NIGHT, STANDING IN FRONT OF THE WALL, IF WE CALL IT ALL DIFFERENT THINGS. BUT BUT THE MAP AND SO CAREFULLY GUIDING US THROUGH AS THESE ELECTION NIGHTS UNFOLD AND WE'RE WE'RE SO I DON'T WANT TO GET AHEAD OF OURSELVES, RICK BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE AT HOME JUST ASKING THE QUESTIONS THAT WE SHOULD BE ASKING ON THE AIR, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A COUPLE OF CRIMINAL FEDERAL CRIMINAL INDICTMENTS NOW, AND THEY ARE SIGNIFICANT AND HISTORIC. WE'VE NEVER WITNESSED THIS BEFORE AS A COUNTRY. SO A LOT OF QUESTIONS THAT WE JUST HAVEN'T SEEN BEFORE. DONALD TRUMP HAS ANSWERED A COUPLE OF THESE QUESTIONS. YOU KNOW, ON A RADIO SHOW IN RECENT DAYS, HE WAS ASKED POINT BLANK, IF YOU'RE CONVICTED IN EITHER OF THESE CASES, WHAT HAPPENS TO THE CAMPAIGN FOR PRESIDENT? AND DONALD TRUMP WAS VERY CLEAR IN HIS ANSWER, YEAH. >> AND LOOK, TO MARY'S POINT EARLIER, DONALD TRUMP HAS ONLY GOTTEN STRONGER. HIS BELIEFS HAVE GOTTEN STRONGER INSIDE HIS OWN PARTY. IF YOU LOOK BACK TO RIGHT BEFORE THAT FIRST INDICTMENT IN CONNECTION WITH THE HUSH MONEY PAYMENTS IN NEW YORK, HE WAS LEADING THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY FIELD BY ABOUT 20 POINTS. RON DESANTIS IS CLOSEST RIVAL. FAST FORWARD TO RIGHT BEFORE THE FIRST INDICTMENT FROM JACK SMITH. HE WAS LEADING BY ABOUT 30 POINTS AS OF TODAY, ACCORDING TO OUR FIVETHIRTYEIGHT POLLING AVERAGE , HE'S LEADING BY ABOUT 38 POINTS. NOW, YOU CAN'T SAY THIS IS ONLY BECAUSE OF THE INDICTMENTS, BUT CLEARLY, HE THEY HAVEN'T HURT HIM POLITICALLY. AND THE MORE YOU SEE THE OTHER CANDIDATES FEED INTO THE ARGUMENT THAT THIS IS A WITCH HUNT OR THIS IS PART OF A TWO TIERED JUSTICE SYSTEM, IT ONLY STRENGTHENS HIM POLITICALLY. AND IN FACT, REPUBLICAN VOTERS HAVE SAID CONSISTENTLY IN POLLS, NOT THAT THEY THINK THIS WILL HURT HIM POLITICALLY. THEY CONTINUE TO BELIEVE THAT HE IS THE STRONGEST CANDIDATE TO TAKE ON JOE BIDEN, THAT HE IS TO BORROW A COMMON PHRASE, THE MOST ELECTABLE CANDIDATE. SO THE ARGUMENT, THE OTHER CANDIDATES ARE MAKING, EVEN AS IT GETS SHARPER FOR HIS RISE, MIGHT BE EVEN STRONGER BECAUSE SO MUCH OF WHAT THEY'RE SAYING RIGHT NOW IS FUELING THAT KEY ARGUMENT THAT HE IS ONLY NOW ENDURING THESE MULTIPLE INDICTMENTS BECAUSE OF WHO HE IS AND WHAT HE IS TRYING TO DO ON BEHALF OF HIS SUPPORTERS. >> AND WE JUST DON'T KNOW BECAUSE, AGAIN, THIS IS UNCHARTED TERRITORY. WHAT WHAT A AND I DON'T WANT TO GET AHEAD OF OURSELVES, BUT A POTENTIAL CONVICTION WOULD DO TO SOME OF THOSE NUMBERS. IT IS HELPING THE POLITICAL CAMPAIGN IN THE SHORT RUN. WE JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT IT WOULD MEAN DOWN THE LINE, GIVEN WE DON'T KNOW HOW EITHER OF THESE CASES WILL PROCEED. I DID WANT TO ASK YOU, THOUGH, YOU MENTIONED 37, 38 POINTS AHEAD OF RON DESANTIS, WHO IS THE CLOSEST CANDIDATE BEHIND DONALD TRUMP. HISTORICALLY SPEAKING, RICK HAS ANYONE EVER MADE UP THAT GROUND? NO NO. >> THIS IS THIS IS A LARGER LEAD THAN ANY CANDIDATE. REALISTICALLY CAN BE EXPECTED TO SURRENDER. IT WOULD TAKE CATACLYSMIC EXTERNAL EVENTS FOR YOU TO NORMALLY THINK. NOW NOW MAYBE WE SEE THAT MAYBE A CONVICTION OR MAYBE KIND OF THE ACCUMULATED WAIT, WHAT WHAT A NUMBER OF CAMPAIGNS HAVE TOLD ME IS THAT THEY ARE BANKING NOW ON TRUMP FATIGUE. BUT THAT'S ESSENTIALLY HOPE. THAT'S NOT A REAL STRATEGY. THEY'RE HOPING THAT THOSE TRUMP VOTERS ARE GOING TO TIRE OF HIM, WORRY ABOUT THE BAGGAGE, AND THEN LOOK TO PARK THEIR SUPPORT SOMEWHERE ELSE THAT ISN'T REALLY A FULLY FORMED CAMPAIGN STRATEGY. AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH SO MANY OF THESE CANDIDATES. IT'S ALSO WHAT MAKES MIKE PENCE A LITTLE BIT INTERESTING IN THIS MOMENT. AS WE REPORTED A LITTLE BIT EARLIER, HE'S GOTTEN MUCH SHARPER IN HIS CRITIQUE OF DONALD TRUMP IN THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS AFTER THE INDICTMENT CAME OUT, NOW SAYING FLATLY THAT ANYONE WHO'S ENGAGED IN THE KIND OF CONDUCT THAT'S ALLEGED IN THIS INDICTMENT SHOULD NEVER BE PRESIDENT. >> BUT WHEN YOU'VE GOT A CANDIDATE IN DONALD TRUMP WHO IS AHEAD BY ALMOST 40 POINTS, IS THAT ALSO A GAMBLE ON THE PART OF MIKE PENCE IS 100? >> LOOK, PENCE RIGHT NOW IS STRUGGLING TO EVEN QUALIFY FOR THE FIRST PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE JUST THREE WEEKS FROM NOW. HE NEEDS THE TRACTION, AS DO SO MANY OF THE OTHER CANDIDATES. AND THEY'RE MAKING THESE KIND OF BANK SHOT CALCULATIONS ABOUT HOW YOU CAN DO IT. NO ONE IS ABLE TO OR IS PROVEN TO BE ABLE TO DEFEAT DONALD TRUMP. HEAD ON IN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY. AND AS OF NOW, I DON'T SEE ANY OF THE CANDIDATES WHO ACTUALLY HAVE A STRATEGY THAT CAN GET FROM HERE TO THERE. >> THAT'S JUST AN EXTRAORDINARY SCENARIO THAT RICK KLEIN, OUR CHIEF POLITICAL DIRECTOR, IS LAYING OUT HERE. THE NUMBERS BEAR THIS OUT FROM THE LATEST POLLING. DONALD TRUMP BY FAR IS THE LEADING REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE IN THE RACE FOR PRESIDENT, LEADING RON DESANTIS, THE CLOSEST PERSON BEHIND HIM BY 37, 38 POINTS. HISTORICALLY SPEAKING, NO ONE HAS EVER BEEN ABLE TO MAKE UP THAT GROUND. IT WOULD SEEM, AT LEAST SO FAR, THESE CASES AGAINST DONALD TRUMP, THESE INDICTMENTS HAVE ONLY HELPED TO SOLIDIFY HIS BASE TO MAKE HIS CASE. AND YOU'VE HEARD WHAT HIS ARGUMENT IS, WHICH IS THAT THE BIDEN JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS TAKING AIM AT DONALD TRUMP PRECISELY BECAUSE OF WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW IN THE MIDDLE OF A CYCLE, THE RUN FOR PRESIDENT ALL OVER AGAIN AND AGAIN. WE'RE JUST IN UNCHARTED TERRITORY AS WE WATCH THESE CASES NOW PLAY OUT ON TWO DIFFERENT PATHS. THESE TWO FEDERAL CRIMINAL INDICTMENTS, THE ONE IN SOUTH FLORIDA, THE ONE THAT WILL PLAY OUT RIGHT HERE IN WASHINGTON, D.C, WHICH, OF COURSE, IS WHAT YOU'RE WATCHING LIVE PICTURES OF RIGHT NOW. ANY MOMENT WE ARE EXPECTED TO GAIN MORE COLOR FROM THE COURTROOM. WE KNOW THE PROCEEDINGS HAVE BEGUN. DONALD TRUMP HAS BEEN PROCESSED IN WASHINGTON JUST A COUPLE OF BLOCKS FROM THE WHITE HOUSE, ALSO JUST A COUPLE OF BLOCKS FROM CAPITOL HILL. HIS RETURN TO WASHINGTON OBVIOUSLY NOT THE KIND OF RETURN THAT HE WAS HOPING FOR TODAY IN MAKING THIS TRIP FROM BEDMINSTER TO REAGAN AIRPORT IN WASHINGTON. THEN THE MOTORCADE DRIVING HIM ALONE, DRIVING HIM ALONE ON THE WAY ACROSS THE POTOMAC, PAST THE JEFFERSON MEMORIAL, PAST SO MANY OF THOSE MONUMENTS THAT WERE A TEMPORARY HOME TO DONALD TRUMP FOR FOUR YEARS AS HE MADE HIS WAY TO THIS FEDERAL COURTHOUSE TODAY TO ANSWER FOR AN INDICTMENT, THE KIND OF WHICH WE HAVE NEVER SEEN HERE IN THIS COUNTRY BEFORE, A FORMER PRESIDENT BEING ACCUSED OF TRYING TO OVERTURN AN ELECTION THAT HE KNEW HE HAD LOST TO TRY TO HOLD ON TO THE WHITE HOUSE. I WANT TO BRING IN AARON KATERSKY REPORTING OUT MORE COLOR FROM INSIDE THAT COURTROOM AS WE GET BITS AND PIECES FROM OUR REPORTERS WHO ARE INSIDE. WHAT HAVE YOU LEARNED? AARON DAVID, FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP IS SEATED AT THE DEFENSE TABLE FLANKED ON EITHER SIDE BY HIS ATTORNEYS, JOHN LAURO AND TODD BLANCH. >> HE'S BEEN SEEN CONFERRING MAINLY WITH BLANCH SHUFFLING PAPERS. BUT THERE WAS A MOMENT AND IT ONLY LASTED A FEW SECONDS, BUT IT WAS UNMISTAKABLE WHEN FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP APPEARED TO LOOK STRAIGHT AT SPECIAL PROSECUTOR JACK SMITH THE LAST TIME THEY WERE IN THE ROOM TOGETHER WAS JUNE 13TH IN MIAMI FEDERAL COURT AFTER THE INDICTMENT HAD BEEN HANDED UP IN CONNECTION WITH THE CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS CASE DURING THAT APPEARANCE, IT DIDN'T APPEAR THAT THE TWO MEN LOCKED EYES HERE. SMITH HAS BEEN SEEN STARING AT TRUMP. AND AT A DIFFERENT POINT, TRUMP HAS BEEN SEEN STARING AT SMITH WITH HIS HANDS KIND OF CLENCHED. BUT AT THE DEFENSE TABLE. AND IT WAS A MOMENT THAT THAT CLEARLY SHOWS HOW PERHAPS ANGRY THE FORMER PRESIDENT IS WITH THIS PARTICULAR INDICTMENT AND THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR WHO HAS BROUGHT IT, WHO HE IS ACCUSED OF TRYING TO UNDERMINE THE ELECTION BY SPECIFICALLY PROSECUTING THE REPUBLICAN FRONT RUNNER. THIS PROCEEDING IN COURT IS STILL WAITING FOR THE APPEARANCE OF THE FEDERAL MAGISTRATE WHO WILL HEAR TRUMP'S PLEA OF NOT GUILTY . MAXILLA UPADHYAY IS NOT THE JUDGE WHO IS ULTIMATELY GOING TO HEAR THE CASE. A FEDERAL MAGISTRATE THERE APPOINTED BY OTHER JUDGES. THEY'RE NOT SUBJECT TO POLITICAL APPOINTMENTS, AND THEY HANDLE MAINLY MINISTERIAL DUTIES. AFTER THIS, WE EXPECT THAT THE JUDGE, TANYA CHUTKAN, THE DISTRICT JUDGE, TO TAKE OVER THE CASE. SOMEONE, DAVID, YOU'VE POINTED OUT, HAS HEARD A NUMBER OF JANUARY 6TH CASES AND WHO HAS RULED AGAINST FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP IN THE PAST IN A CASE INVOLVING THE JANUARY 6TH CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE, WHEN TRUMP TRIED TO WITHHOLD DOCUMENTS, SHE RULED AGAINST HIM, WRITING PRESIDENT ARE NOT KINGS. DAVID >> THE MOMENT YOU LEARN MORE, AARON, RAISE YOUR HAND. WE'LL COME RIGHT BACK TO YOU FOR ANY KIND OF REPORTING FROM INSIDE THAT COURTROOM. I WANT TO BRING IN ASHER RANGAPPA, ASSOCIATE DEAN, FORMER DEAN AT YALE LAW SCHOOL, CURRENT LAW PROFESSOR, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT ASHA, ALWAYS GREAT TO HAVE YOU WITH US. AND I WANTED TO ASK YOU HOW DIFFICULT A CASE WILL THIS BE TO PROSECUTE ON THE PART OF JACK SMITH? AND THEN ON THE FLIP SIDE, HOW DIFFICULT WILL IT BE TO DEFEND THE FORMER PRESIDENT. >> WELL, BASED ON THE EVIDENCE THAT'S IN THE INDICTMENT, I THINK THAT HE'S GOT PLENTY OF WITNESSES AND DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE AT HIS DISPOSAL. AND WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT UNLIKE THE MAR A LAGO CASE, THIS WON'T ENCOUNTER THE SAME KIND OF PROCEDURAL HURDLES BECAUSE IT DOESN'T INVOLVE THINGS LIKE CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS. SO I THINK THAT HE HAS THE POTENTIAL TO MOVE FORWARD ON THIS. AND I THINK THIS ONE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ART INDICTMENT THAT WE HAVE SEEN SO FAR. REMEMBER THAT THE MANHATTAN ONE IS FROM BEFORE TRUMP BECAME PRESIDENT. THE MAR A LAGO CASE IS AFTER HE LEFT OFFICE. THIS IS ESPECIALLY SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE THIS CONCERNS HIS ACTIONS WHEN HE WAS PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. HE WAS USING THE LEVERS OF POWER TO TRY TO WEAPONIZE THE PEOPLE UNDER HIM. THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, THE MILITARY. IT'S AN ABUSE OF POWER. AND I THINK IN MANY WAYS IT HAS A THROUGH LINE FROM IMPEACHMENT TO NOW, BECAUSE YOU'LL REMEMBER THAT MANY OF THOSE REPUBLICANS WHO REFUSED TO VOTE TO CONVICT HIM SAID THAT THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM IS THE RIGHT VENUE FOR THIS. AND HERE WE ARE. AND THIS IS AN IMPORTANT HISTORICAL RECORD FOR WHOEVER OCCUPIES THE OVAL OFFICE MOVING FORWARD. >> ASHA, STICK WITH ME HERE. WE KNOW THE JUDGE HAS JUST ENTERED THE COURTROOM ALL RISE, COULD BE HEARD. PROCEEDINGS EXPECTED TO BEGIN AT ANY MOMENT NOW. THIS IS ABOUT 20 MINUTES NOW AFTER THE FORMER PRESIDENT, DONALD TRUMP, ARRIVED IN THAT COURTROOM. AGAIN, THE JUDGE IS NOW IN THE COURTROOM. ASHA, I WANT TO BRING THIS BACK TO YOU. YOU JUST LAID OUT A SCENARIO BY WHICH JACK SMITH COULD TRY TO MOVE VERY QUICKLY TO PROSECUTE THAT. AGAIN, THIS DOESN'T INVOLVE, YOU KNOW, BOXES AND BOXES OF CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS LIKE MAR A LAGO, WHICH COULD GET DELAYED IN THE DISCOVERY PROCESS AND IN MOTIONS TO THE JUDGE. THIS CASE IS CLEAR CUT NOW, HAVING SAID THAT, WHAT WHAT DO YOU THINK WOULD BE THE FORMER PRESIDENT'S DEFENSE AND HOW DIFFICULT WILL IT BE TO DEFEND HIM. >> I THINK THAT IT LOOKS LIKE FROM HIS PUBLIC STATEMENT HE IS TESTING OUT A FEW DIFFERENT DEFENSES. THERE'S THE ADVICE OF COUNSEL DEFENSE THAT THIS WAS HE WAS JUST RELYING ON THE ADVICE OF HIS LAWYERS. THE INDICTMENT MAKES CLEAR THAT HE WAS AN ACTIVE PARTICIPANT IN THIS SCHEME AND THAT HE KNEW THAT HE HADN'T WON THE ELECTION. AND YOU KNOW THAT I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT WILL GO VERY FAR, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE HE WOULD HAVE TO TESTIFY IN HIS OWN DEFENSE AND DISCUSS THE CONVERSATIONS THAT HE HAD WITH HIS COUNSEL, WHICH WOULD, OF COURSE, WAIVE ATTORNEY CLIENT PRIVILEGE. THE OTHER DEFENSE THAT HE SEEMS TO BE FLOATING IS THAT HE TRULY BELIEVED THAT HE HAD WON THE ELECTION. AND AGAIN, THIS IS REALLY A NONSTARTER FOR THE KINDS OF CHARGES THAT ARE HERE, BECAUSE BECAUSE WHAT IS BEING CRIMINALIZED IS NOT THE LYING. IT'S THE USE OF ILLEGAL MEANS AND INTIMIDATION TO OVERTURN THE ELECTION. THE ANALOGY HERE WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU BELIEVE THAT YOUR BANK ACCOUNT CONTAINS $10,000 MORE THAN IT ACTUALLY DOES, YOU CAN USE ALL KINDS OF MEANS. YOU CAN TALK TO THE MANAGER, YOU CAN TAKE THEM TO COURT. YOU CAN'T GO WITH A GUN TO THE BANK AND ROB IT JUST BECAUSE YOU THINK THAT YOU SHOULD HAVE MORE MONEY AND SO I THINK THESE DEFENSES ARE GOING TO NOT GET VERY FAR. IT WILL BE VERY DIFFICULT FOR HIM. I THINK, TO DEFEND AGAINST THESE CHARGES, ESPECIALLY IF MANY OF THESE COCONSPIRATORS END UP COOPERATING WITH THE SPECIAL COUNSEL. >> AND AGAIN, ASHA, THAT GOES BACK TO THE POINT THAT JACK SMITH SPELLED OUT THAT THAT THE FORMER PRESIDENT HAD EVERY RIGHT TO SPEAK PUBLICLY, TO EVEN TALK ABOUT YOU, TO SHARE FALSEHOODS, IF THAT'S WHAT HE WISHED. BUT THAT THE WAY TO ARGUE THIS IS THROUGH LAWFUL MEANS. JACK SMITH SAID HE DID A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT WAYS AND IN MANY CASES IN FRONT OF TRUMP APPOINTED JUDGES. WHAT, MORE THAN 60 CASES WE'VE REPORTED OUT BACK DURING AND RIGHT AFTER THE 2020 ELECTION AND THAT THEY DID NOT RULE IN HIS FAVOR, SAYING THAT THERE WAS NO AND WE HEARD THIS FROM BILL BARR, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, WHO WAS SO CLOSELY ALLIED WITH THE FORMER PRESIDENT FOR SO LONG, SAYING THAT THERE WAS NO SIGNIFICANT EVIDENCE SHOWING THAT THERE WAS ANY SORT OF FRAUD TO THE LEVEL THAT WOULD HAVE CHANGED THE OUTCOME OF THE ELECTION. >> YES. AND ON THAT POINT, DAVID, I WANT TO JUST ECHO BACK TO WHAT MARTHA SAID EARLIER ABOUT HOW WE SEE THESE COUPS IN THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES. THIS THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF A SELF-COUP, AN ATTEMPT TO STAY IN POWER. IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT TO GET IN POWER, BUT WHAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT HERE IS IT FOLLOWS A PATTERN THAT WE SEE ACROSS THE GLOBE. YOU KNOW, MILITARY COUPS ARE OUT. WHAT'S IN IS USING LEGAL COVER TO GET IN OR STAY IN POWER. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE INDICTMENT HIGHLIGHTS, WHICH I THOUGHT WAS FASCINATING, WAS THE USE OF THESE LAWSUITS, WHICH YOU JUST MENTIONED AS A WAY TO CREATE COVER FOR THESE FAKE ELECTORS TO BE MEETING AND CREATING FAKE SLATES. THEY WANTED TO ACT AS THOUGH THE OUTCOME OF THE ELECTION WAS IN DOUBT AND TO GIVE THIS LEGAL COVER THAT JOHN EASTMAN PLAN IS A LEGAL BLUEPRINT. YOU KNOW, THEY'RE TRYING TO CREATE THIS VENEER OF LEGALITY TO ENGAGE IN AN ILLEGAL TAKEOVER OF POWER. AND I THINK THAT THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND WHEN READING THE INDICTMENT THAT ASHA RANGAPPA, FORMER ASSOCIATE DEAN OF YALE LAW SCHOOL, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT, WITH US FOR OUR COVERAGE HERE TODAY. >> ASHA, THANK YOU, AS ALWAYS. WE KNOW THAT COURT PERSONNEL INSIDE THE COURTROOM JUST ANNOUNCED MOMENTS AGO THE CASE, THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA VERSUS DONALD J. TRUMP. WE UNDERSTAND THERE'S ANOTHER WOMAN AT THE PROSECUTOR'S TABLE, AN FBI AGENT OUT THERE AT THE PROSECUTOR'S TABLE, JACK SMITH, THE SPECIAL COUNSEL, ALSO IN THAT COURTROOM. AS WE REPORTED HERE, DONALD TRUMP, EACH SIDE OF HIM ARE HIS TWO ATTORNEYS WHO ARE SITTING IN COURT BEGINNING THE PROCEEDINGS. THE JUDGE SAID TO DONALD TRUMP, GOOD AFTERNOON , MR. TRUMP. AND THEN HE WAS SWORN IN FOR THE BEGINNING OF THIS ARRAIGNMENT BEFORE THE JUDGE. WE HEARD ASHA TALK ABOUT POTENTIAL DEFENSE STRATEGIES HERE. DAN ABRAMS AND AS WE AWAIT TO GET MORE COLOR FROM INSIDE THAT COURTROOM, FROM WHAT YOU'VE HEARD SO FAR, WHAT IS THE STRONGEST DEFENSE DONALD TRUMP'S TEAM CAN PUT FORWARD? >> THE STRONGEST LEGAL DEFENSE IS GOING TO BE THAT THAT HE BELIEVED IT, THE STRONGEST LEGAL DEFENSE IS GOING TO BE THAT HE DISCARDED AND REJECTED THE ACCOUNTS, THE CONCLUSIONS IS THE ADVICE FROM MANY OF THOSE AROUND HIM. AND HE ACCEPTED. AND IT'S NOT JUST ACCEPTING ADVICE OF COUNSEL. IT'S ALSO HE'S GOING TO SAY HE BELIEVED ACCOUNTS THAT WERE COMING IN FROM THE VARIOUS STATES ABOUT MISCONDUCT GOING ON AROUND THE ELECTION. HE WAS TOLD THAT ET CETERA. AND THIS BECOMES WHY IT'S SO IMPORTANT TO SHOW THAT HE KNEW THAT THAT WASN'T TRUE. NOW THERE'S SOMETHING ELSE THAT'S INTERESTING HERE ABOUT THE OTHER JANUARY 6TH CASES, BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THAT A LOT AND WE'VE BEEN TALKING A LOT ABOUT THE TIMING OF THIS CASE. HOW QUICKLY COULD IT MOVE? COULD IT HAPPEN BEFORE THE ELECTION? ONE OF THE REASONS ONE WOULD THINK THIS CASE COULD MOVE A LITTLE MORE QUICKLY IS THAT A LOT OF THE LEGAL ISSUES HAVE BEEN RESOLVED AND HAVE BEEN LITIGATED IN CONNECTION WITH THE OTHER JANUARY SIXTH CASES. SO SOME OF THE QUESTIONS ABOUT CAN YOU USE IN FACT, ONE OF THE LAWS IS THAT DONALD TRUMP IS CHARGED WITH HERE HAS BEEN LITIGATED ABOUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN, WHAT IS THE DEFINITION AND WHAT IS THE STANDARD. THOSE ARE THE SORTS OF THINGS THAT TAKE TIME AND THAT HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN RESOLVED TO SOME DEGREE IN CONNECTION WITH THE OTHER JANUARY 6TH CASES. AND VERY LIKELY SOME OF THOSE ISSUES RESOLVED IN JUDGE CHUCK KIN'S COURTROOM BECAUSE SHE'S PRESIDED OVER MANY OF THESE JANUARY 6TH CASES ALREADY. RIGHT. THE FIRST RULING THERE, THEN THEY GO TO THE APPELLATE COURT IN PARTICULAR, SORT OF A DEFINITION OF HOW HIGH A STANDARD IS THERE FOR OBSTRUCTION OF A OF A PROCEEDING. I THINK THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT. BUT LOOK, YOU KNOW, THE DEFENSE IS GOING TO BE ARGUING, AS ASHA SAID, A WHOLE LOT OF DIFFERENT KINDS OF DEFENSES HERE. YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT IT'S NOT QUITE AS CLEAR CUT AS ASHA THINKS IT IS. I THINK THAT THIS IS A THIS IS A STRONG CASE THAT HE'S GOT. BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME WIGGLE ROOM HERE. THERE'S GOING TO BE MUCH MORE WIGGLE ROOM HERE, I THINK, FOR THE DEFENSE THAN THERE IS IN THE DOCUMENTS CASE. THE DOCUMENTS CASE IS SO STRAIGHTFORWARD. IT'S ABOUT WHAT DID YOU HAVE THESE DOCUMENTS? DID YOU REFUSE TO TURN THEM OVER? DID YOU TRY AND DESTROY VIDEO OF SURVEILLANCE VIDEO? ET CETERA. WERE YOU TRYING TO PREVENT THEM FROM GETTING THE STUFF? THAT'S PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD IN TERMS OF LEGAL QUESTIONS HERE, THE QUESTIONS OF INTENT, FRAME OF MIND, FRAME OF MIND, INTENT, THESE DO BECOME SIGNIFICANT ISSUES. AND AS I TALKED ABOUT, BIGGER ISSUES ON SOME OF THE CHARGES THAN ON SOME OF THE OTHER CHARGES. BUT YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO DISTINGUISH FROM THE POLITICAL DEFENSES WHICH ARE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE JUST THEY'RE JUST OUT TO GET US. THEY JUST WANT TO PREVENT DONALD TRUMP FROM WINNING, BY THE WAY, WHICH IS AN INTERESTING ARGUMENT, THIS IDEA THAT, OH, THEY'RE TRYING TO INTERFERE IN THE ELECTION AND YET ALL WE EVER SEE EVERY TIME AN INDICTMENT HAPPENS IS DONALD TRUMP GO UP IN THE POLLS AT THE JUDGE'S REQUEST, JUST MOMENTS AGO, DONALD TRUMP OFFERED HIS FULL NAME IN COURT, SAYING, YES, YOUR HONOR, DONALD J. >> TRUMP, JOHN, HE ALSO GAVE HIS AGE IN COURT 77. THE JUDGE IS NOW, WE ARE TOLD, READING THE CHARGES TO THE FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP. AGAIN THIS IS WHERE IT STARTS TO COME INTO FOCUS, JUST THE HISTORIC NATURE OF WHAT IT IS WE'RE WATCHING UNFOLD. AND JOHN, YOU AND I LOOK TO EACH OTHER WHEN WE HEARD HOW LONG THE FORMER PRESIDENT HAD BEEN LEFT TO WAIT FOR THE FEDERAL MAGISTRATE. AGAIN, THIS IS THE JUDGE, AT LEAST IN THIS INITIAL PHASE, WHO'S PRESIDING BEFORE IT TURNS OVER TO JUDGE TANYA CHUTKAN IN THE FUTURE. BUT JUST THE IDEA, THE FORMER PRESIDENT SITTING THERE WAITING HAS TO SPELL OUT HIS NAME, CONFIRM HIS NAME, CONFIRM HIS AGE 77. THAT'S ALSO A VERY HARSH REMINDER TO THE FORMER PRESIDENT HIMSELF THAT THIS IS SERIOUS. >> HE HAD TO SIT AT THAT TABLE FOR 20 MINUTES, DAVID. HE HAD TO SIT AT THAT TABLE FOR 20 MINUTES WAITING FOR SOMEBODY ELSE. AS DONALD TRUMP NEVER WAITS FOR ANYTHING, HE'S ALWAYS THE BIGGEST GUY IN THE ROOM. HE COMES IN. EVERYBODY'S WAITING UNTIL HE GETS THERE. AND IT'S LET'S GO. HE HAD TO WAIT FOR 20 MINUTES. AND THEN OF COURSE, THE FAMILIAR CALL WE HEAR EVERY TIME WE'RE IN A COURTROOM. AND THE JUDGE COMES IN. ALL RISE. DONALD TRUMP, LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE IN THAT COURTROOM, HAD TO STAND UP. AND YOU KNOW, GIVE DEFERENCE TO THAT JUDGE. AND REMEMBER, HE'S NOT FREE TO LEAVE. HE IS HE'S NOT IN HANDCUFFS. BUT HE'S UNDER ARREST. HE HAS TO BE THERE FOR THIS ARRAIGNMENT. >> THE JUDGE JUST ADVISED THE FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE PENALTIES HE COULD FACE IF CONVICTED, COUNT ONE. THE JUDGE SAID UP TO FIVE YEARS IN PRISON, COUNT TWO, UP TO 20 YEARS IN PRISON, COUNT THREE, UP TO 20 YEARS IN PRISON, COUNT FOUR UP TO TEN YEARS IN PRISON. THE FORMER PRESIDENT, DONALD TRUMP, ACCORDING TO OUR REPORTER IN THE ROOM, WAS LEANING FORWARD IN HIS CHAIR, LISTENING INTENTLY TO THE JUDGE AS SHE WENT DOWN THE LIST OF EACH COUNT AND THE POTENTIAL TIME IN PRISON THAT SOMEONE CONVICTED OF THAT COUNT COULD FACE. THE JUDGE ALSO READ DONALD TRUMP HIS RIGHTS IN CONNECTION TO THIS CASE AND ASKED IF HE UNDERSTANDS THOSE RIGHTS AGAIN. PIERRE THOMAS, THIS IS THE KIND OF MOMENT THAT REINFORCES REALLY THE WEIGHT OF WHAT IT IS WE'RE REPORTING ON HERE TODAY. >> DAVID, THERE'S ALWAYS THAT PREGNANT MOMENT IN A COURTHOUSE WHEN A DEFENDANT WALKS IN AND SITS BEFORE A MAGISTRATE OR A JUDGE WHEN THE CHARGES ARE READ AND THE POTENTIAL PENALTIES, PENALTIES ARE LAID OUT. IT'S A MOMENT WHEN YOU'RE THERE COVERING IT, YOU TRY TO PUT YOURSELF IN THE POSITION OF THE PERSON HEARING IT. THIS IS A FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES HEARING, HEY, IF YOU'RE CONVICTED AND AGAIN, PROSECUTOR HAS TO PROVE HIS CASE IN COURT BEFORE A JURY. BUT IF YOU'RE CONVICTED, YOU COULD FACE UP TO 20 YEARS MAXIMUM IN PRISON. JUST THINK ABOUT THAT. WE HAVE JUST BEEN TOLD, PIERRE, THAT THE FORMER PRESIDENT HIMSELF SAID NOT GUILTY TO EACH OF THOSE COUNTS IN THE COURTROOM. >> ALEX MALLIN ARE PART OF OUR REPORTING TEAM THERE WITNESSING THIS, SAYING DONALD TRUMP HAS SAID IN COURT HIMSELF NOT GUILTY , NOT THROUGH HIS JUDGE, NOT THROUGH HIS LEGAL DEFENSE TEAM. THE TWO LAWYERS ON EACH SIDE, BUT HIMSELF SAYING NOT GUILTY IN THAT COURT. BUT IT IS STARK. JOHN. KARL TO HEAR UP TO FIVE YEARS FOR COUNT ONE, UP TO 20 YEARS FOR COUNTS TWO AND THREE EACH AND UP TO TEN YEARS FOR COUNT FOR. >> I MEAN, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT I MEAN, THESE ARE MAXIMUMS, BUT THOSE ARE ALL LIFE SENTENCES, AS YOU KNOW, IF AND MAXIMUMS ARE RARELY WHAT YOU WOULD SEE HERE. BUT I WANT TO POINT OUT ANOTHER ASPECT OF THE DEFENSE, DAVID. SURELY THERE'S THE FREE SPEECH DEFENSE THAT THEY'VE SIGNALED THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE. THERE'S THE ADVICE OF COUNSEL, DEFENSE. THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE. THEY'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT STATE OF MIND. BUT THE OTHER ONE IS DELAY OR DELAY OR DELAY. DELAY AND THAT'S THE THAT'S THE CENTRAL STRATEGY, I THINK, IN EACH ONE OF THESE CASES IN NEW YORK, IN THE CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS CASE, AND IN THIS CASE, TO DELAY THE PROCEEDINGS IN EVERY POSSIBLE WAY IN THE HOPES THAT HE WILL WIN THE REPUBLICAN NOMINATION AND THAT HE WILL WIN THE GENERAL ELECTION. AND THEN HE CAN CALL IT ALL OFF. >> IT'S SOMETHING THAT HAS WORKED FOR DONALD TRUMP MANY TIMES IN THE PAST. >> YEAH, I MEAN, THIS IS THIS HAS BEEN HIS STRATEGY SINCE LONG BEFORE HE WAS IN POLITICS. >> THINK ABOUT THIS. IF HE DOES WIN RIGHT. AND THE NEW YORKER GEORGIA CASE IS CONTINUE BECAUSE HE CAN'T JUST END IN THE NEW YORK OR THE GEORGIA CASE. THOSE ARE STATE CASES BROUGHT BY STATE PROSECUTORS. HE COULD PROBABLY FIGURE OUT A WAY TO END THE FEDERAL CASE. I THINK THAT'S PRETTY CLEAR. BUT WHAT HAPPENS THEN? I MEAN, HE'S HE'S PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND GEORGIA FOR, LET'S SAY, THE GEORGIA CASE HASN'T GONE TO TRIAL. AND THE GEORGIA PROSECUTORS ARE INSISTING WE STILL WANT TO MOVE FORWARD TO PROSECUTE THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. I MEAN, IT'S A SCARY THING TO THINK ABOUT. >> WELL, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE HE HAS SHOWN THAT HE IS WILLING TO USE THE POWER OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND THE POWER OF THE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENCY TO FURTHER HIS OWN ENDS. SO, I MEAN, HOW IS THE IS DONALD TRUMP AS THE NOW 47TH PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES GOING TO WILLINGLY AND, YOU KNOW, GO DOWN TO FULTON COUNTY, GEORGIA, AND STAY ON TRIAL? >> NO, I THINK THAT'S I THINK THERE'S NO WAY. >> RIGHT. SO YOU'LL HAVE ANOTHER YET ANOTHER CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS, AARON KATERSKY OUTSIDE FEDERAL COURT IN WASHINGTON. >> HE'S REPORTING LIVE FOR US. AND AARON, AS WE'VE BEEN REPORTING HERE, EACH COUNT LAID OUT BEFORE THE FORMER PRESIDENT PLEADING NOT GUILTY HIMSELF IN THAT COURTROOM, UTTERING THE WORDS WHILE STANDING BEFORE THE FEDERAL MAGISTRATE WHO HEARD THE PLEA. >> AND FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP IS USED TO HAVE PEOPLE STANDING BEFORE HIM, BUT HE HAD TO DO IT FACE THE JUDGE AND ENTER THE NOT GUILTY PLEA TO EACH OF THE FOUR COUNTS AFTER THE JUDGE HAD READ THEM ALOUD AND AFTER SHE HAD TOLD THE FORMER PRESIDENT THE POTENTIAL PENALTIES THAT IF CONVICTED, A TOTAL OF 55 YEARS, IT'S UNLIKELY THE FORMER PRESIDENT WOULD SERVE ANYTHING CLOSE TO THAT, IF ANY TIME AT ALL. IF CONVICTED OF THESE COUNTS. BUT IT WAS A STARK REMINDER OF THE CONFLICT FACES. THE FORMER PRESIDENT ALSO HAD PREVIOUSLY TO ENTER HIS AGE 77. HE HAD TO REMIND THE JUDGE OF HIS MIDDLE NAME, JOHN, WHEN HE FIRST APPEARED BEFORE HER. AND NOW THIS PROCEEDING SHOULD BE WINDING DOWN. WE MAY HEAR WHEN THE NEXT DATE IS BEFORE THE DISTRICT COURT JUDGE. THAT WILL BE ULTIMATELY HEARING THIS PROSECUTION AND THEN THE FORMER PRESIDENT IS EXPECTED TO QUICKLY RE DEPART THIS COURTHOUSE AND RETURN TO BEDMINSTER, NEW JERSEY. BUT DAVID, JUST AN EXTRAORDINARY PROCEEDING IN THREE SEPARATE CASES, IN THREE SEPARATE CITIES. THE FORMER PRESIDENT HAS PLEADED NOT GUILTY TO EACH AND EVERY EACH AND EVERY CHARGE HE'S FACED AARON KATERSKY OUTSIDE THAT COURTHOUSE, THE FEDERAL COURTHOUSE, JUST STEPS FROM THE CAPITOL IN WASHINGTON. >> WE'RE GETTING A READOUT OF WHAT'S DESCRIBED AS A SOMEWHAT AWKWARD MOMENT INSIDE THAT COURTROOM WHEN THE FORMER PRESIDENT WAS ASKED TO SAY HIS NAME. HE APPARENTLY STOOD UP AND WALKED OVER TO A MICROPHONE AT THE COUNSEL'S TABLE TO SAY HIS NAME. IT WAS THEN THE JUDGE SAID HE DIDN'T HAVE TO STAND THE FORMER PRESIDENT WALKING BACK TO HIS SEAT, SITTING DOWN AND THEN PROCEEDING TO SAY HIS NAME, HIS AGE, PLEADING NOT GUILTY HIMSELF. WE ARE LEARNING TERMS OF RELEASE AT THIS POINT. AND JOHN KARL APTLY POINTED OUT A MOMENT AGO THAT, AGAIN, HE'S NOT HANDCUFFED. THERE'S BEEN NO MUG SHOT. BUT HE'S IN ESSENCE, UNDER ARREST IN THAT COURTROOM. THEY HAVE JUST AGREED TO CONDITIONS OF DONALD TRUMP'S RELEASE. AND LET'S BRING IN JOHN SANTUCCI. WHAT'S THE TEAM LEARNED ON THAT, JOHN DAVID, WE'RE LEARNING FROM OUR ALEX MALLIN AND MIKE LEVINE THAT ARE WATCHING THIS IN REAL TIME AT THE PROSECUTION AND THE DEFENSE HAVE AGREED ON SEVERAL CONDITIONS. >> ONE, DONALD TRUMP MUST NOT VIOLATE ANY OTHER FEDERAL OR STATE LAWS. TWO, DONALD TRUMP MUST APPEAR IN COURT AS REQUIRED. OBVIOUSLY WILL BE YET TO SEE A CALENDAR ON THIS CASE. DAVID TRUMP MUST SIGN AN APPEARANCE FOR BOND. AND AS ONE OF THE PROSECUTORS PUT IT, HE MUST NOT QUOTE, COMMUNICATE ABOUT THE FACTS OF THE CASE WITH ANYONE. TRUMP KNOWS TO BE A WITNESS EXCEPT THROUGH COUNSEL ROLE OR IN PRESENCE OF COUNSEL. AND DAVID, THAT ONE IS DUE APPLICATIVE TO THE OTHER CASE THAT WAS BROUGHT BY SPECIAL COUNSEL JACK SMITH. THE DOCUMENT RETENTION CASE WITNESSES THAT ARE INVOLVED IN THAT CASE CANNOT TALK ABOUT THE CASE WITH TRUMP. WE SEE HERE IN THIS CASE NOW ON THE EFFORTS TO OVERTURN THE 2020 ELECTION. SAME THING DONALD TRUMP CANNOT TALK TO ANY OTHER WITNESSES THAT ARE KNOWN TO HIM AND HIS LAWYERS. AND THAT IS OBVIOUSLY AS WE TALKED ABOUT, DAVID, SEVERAL WEEKS AGO HERE WITH YOU, THAT'S GOING TO BE A PROBLEM FOR DONALD TRUMP, BECAUSE THE ONE THING WE ALL KNOW, DONALD TRUMP LIKES TO DO IS TALK ABOUT HIS CURRENT SITUATION WHEN HE TALKS ABOUT THESE CASES, IS TALKS ABOUT WHAT COULD BE NEXT. HOW IS THIS PLAYING? FOR ME, IT'S A PHRASE WE HAVE HEARD MANY, MANY TIMES OVER THE YEARS FROM DONALD TRUMP , THAT ONE IN PARTICULAR, DAVID , THAT IS GOING TO BE A PROBLEM FOR DONALD TRUMP. BUT IF HE WANTS TO AVOID ANY FURTHER ISSUES, HE'S GOING TO HAVE TO STICK TO IT. >> SO AS A FOR AN EXAMPLE, DAN ABRAMS, IF DONALD TRUMP WANTED TO TALK TO MARK MEADOWS, LET'S SAY HE CAN ONLY DO IT THROUGH COUNSEL OR IN THE PRESENCE OF COUNSEL, HE CAN'T PICK UP THE PHONE AND CALL MARK MEADOWS TO TALK ABOUT THIS CASE. >> ANYTHING RELATED TO THE CASE THAT DOES NOT SURPRISING, RIGHT? NOT SURPRISING. BUT REMEMBER, YOU STILL HAVE TO GET CAUGHT, RIGHT? I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I HATE TO PHRASE IT AS AS IF IT'S SO CAVALIER BECAUSE IT'S NOT. BUT, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE THE SORTS OF ORDERS THAT HAVE HAPPEN THAT AS LONG AS SOMEONE DOESN'T REPORT IT, AS LONG AS HE DOESN'T SAY IT IN PUBLIC, AS LONG AS THE WITNESS IS STILL ON THE SAME PAGE WITH DONALD TRUMP, NO ONE'S REALLY GOING TO GOING TO KNOW ABOUT IT. BUT WITH THAT SAID, WHEN IT COMES TO SOME OF THE WITNESSES WHO ARE NOT CURRENTLY, YOU KNOW, AT MAR A LAGO ALL THE TIME, PEOPLE WHO HE'S NOT REGULARLY TALKING WITH, IT'S A CLEAR STATEMENT FROM THE COURT. YOU BETTER NOT ENGAGE IN ANY WITNESS TAMPERING AND EVEN MORE THAN THAT, YOU JUST BETTER NOT TALK TO THEM ABOUT IT AT ALL . I MEAN, THINK ABOUT IT IN A TRIAL VERY OFTEN, WITNESSES AREN'T EVEN ALLOWED TO SIT IN THE COURTROOM WHEN OTHER PEOPLE ARE TESTIFYING BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT IT TO IMPACT THEIR TESTIMONY. RIGHT. SO WITNESSES ARE OFTEN ASKED TO LEAVE THE COURTROOM OR NOT ALLOWED TO WATCH THE PROCEEDINGS BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT THE PROCEEDINGS TO INFLUENCE THEIR POSSIBLE TESTIMONY. YOU HAVE A SIMILAR ISSUE HERE, WHICH IS PUT ASIDE, EVEN WITNESS TAMPERING. YOU JUST DON'T WANT WITNESSES IMPROPERLY INFLUENCED BASED ON CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THE CASE. >> WE'RE JUST HEARING, DAN, THAT A HEARING BEFORE JUDGE TANYA CHUTKAN, WHO IS THE JUDGE WHO WILL TAKE OVER THE CASE FROM HERE, THE OBAMA APPOINTED JUDGE WHO HAS OVERSEEN A NUMBER OF JANUARY 6TH CASES, HAS HANDED OUT A NUMBER OF STIFF SENTENCES TO PEOPLE INVOLVED WITH JANUARY 6TH. SHE WILL PRESIDE OVER THE TRIAL. THE HEARING IS SCHEDULED FOR AUGUST 28TH AT 10 A.M. SO THE END OF THIS MONTH AT THE LATEST OF THREE DATES OFFERED AS OPTIONS. SO AGAIN, THE MAGISTRATE OVERSEEING TODAY'S HEARING, THE LATEST DATE OF THE THREE DATES OFFERED AS OPTIONS FROM PROSECUTORS WAS SELECTED. PROSECUTORS HAD WANTED THE HEARING TO BE EARLIER. BUT AGAIN, THE NEXT DATE KEY DATE ON THIS CALENDAR AUGUST 28TH, FIVE DAYS AFTER THE REPUBLICAN DEBATE IN IN MILWAUKEE, THE FIRST REPUBLICAN DEBATE, WHICH AGAIN, WE DON'T KNOW IF DONALD TRUMP IS GOING TO DECIDE TO SHOW UP. >> YEAH, I WOULDN'T I WOULDN'T EXPECT HE WOULD BE AT THIS PARTICULAR HEARING. YOU KNOW, THIS IS THIS IS GOING TO BE A FIRST MOTIONS HEARING, ETCETERA, TO SET SCHEDULES, ETCETERA. SO YOU KNOW, I DON'T I DON'T EXPECT THAT DONALD TRUMP WOULD BE AT THIS PARTICULAR WILL. >> WE HEAR IT THAT HERE AT THAT HEARING WHEN THE PROPOSED TRIAL DATE WOULD BE. YEAH THEY MAY HAVE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT IT, BUT ANY PROPOSED TRIAL DATE IN A CASE LIKE THIS I THINK IS FAKE AT THIS POINT. >> IT'S A TARGET DATE. IT'S A HOPE. IT'S A WISH. AND IT'S GOING TO TOTALLY DEPEND ON WHAT HAPPENS. SO, YOU KNOW, WHEN PEOPLE SAY EVEN IN THE NEW YORK CASE, RIGHT, THERE'S A THERE'S A TRIAL DATE SET FOR MARCH. YEAH. IN THE OTHER DOCUMENTS CASE WITH JUDGE AILEEN CANNON, THERE'S A DATE SET FOR MAY. I DON'T VIEW THOSE DATES AS, AS ALL THAT REAL AT THIS POINT. THOSE ARE THE TARGET DATES. THAT'S THE DATE THEY'RE SETTING AS OF RIGHT NOW. I'D EXPECT IN PARTICULAR IN THE FLORIDA CASE, SHE'S GOING TO END UP MOVING IT AGAIN. SO INTERESTING. IMPORTANT TO KNOW WHAT THE POSSIBLE DATES ARE, BUT DON'T BANK ON THEM. >> AND ONE THING WE CAN BE CLEAR ON, I MEAN, THE IDEA THAT BOTH OF THESE TRIALS, JUST THE FEDERAL CASES THAT JUST THESE TWO FEDERAL CASES, THE IDEA THAT BOTH OF THE TRIALS COULD TAKE PLACE BEFORE THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, I MEAN, THAT'S GOT TO BE IMPOSSIBLE. >> THERE'S NO WAY THERE'S BE A MINOR MIRACLE IF ONE OF THEM CAN HAPPEN. >> CORRECT. >> BUT CORRECT. AND AGAIN, ONE COULD. YES, ONE COULD. I MEAN, AGAIN, IT'S STILL A YEAR PLUS AWAY. YOU KNOW, BUT I THINK IT'S CERTAINLY POSSIBLE THAT ONE OF THEM WILL HAPPEN, PROBABLY LESS LIKELY. BUT I THINK IT'S INCREDIBLY UNLIKELY THAT BOTH SO DOES JACK SMITH PUSH AHEAD THROUGH BOTH OF THEM AND THEN TRY TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHICH 1 OR 2. >> HE AT SOME POINT HAS TO MAKE THIS A PRIORITY OR, YOU KNOW, DECIDE, WELL, IT'S GOING TO BE UP TO THE JUDGES. >> I MEAN, HE CAN PUSH ALL HE WANTS. >> OBVIOUSLY, JACK SMITH WOULD LIKE TO MOVE MORE QUICKLY. HE MADE THAT VERY PUBLIC IN BOTH OF HIS PRESS CONFERENCES BEFORE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, WHICH WHICH REALLY WEREN'T PRESS CONFERENCES. THEY WERE PUBLIC STATEMENTS. TO READ THE INDICTMENT, I WANT TO BRING IN JOHN SANTUCCI. JOHN, AS WE HEARD THERE, IT'S JUST A COUPLE OF DAYS AFTER FOR THE REPUBLICAN DEBATE. HAVE YOU RECEIVED ANY NEW GUIDANCE ON WHETHER OR NOT DONALD TRUMP WANTS TO BE ON THAT STAGE WITH THE OTHER REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES? >> WELL, DAVID, WE KNOW FROM A REPORT IN THE NEW YORK TIMES JUST A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO, EXECUTIVES AT FOX NEWS ACTUALLY MADE A TRIP OUT TO BEDMINSTER, NEW JERSEY, LOBBYING THE FORMER PRESIDENT TO PARTICIPATE. I'M TOLD, DAVID, HE'S STILL NOT COMMITTED TO IT AND HE'S WAVERING. HE'S ASKING ANYBODY THAT HE'S BEEN AROUND AS OF LATE. DAVID WHAT SHOULD I DO? SHOULD I DO IT? YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON IT? AGAIN, AS AS WE OFTEN KNOW. BUT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS DEFINITELY WEIGHING ON HIM. I'M TOLD THE FORMER PRESIDENT IS REALLY IN A TOSS UP. HE'S THOUGHT ABOUT DOING COUNTER-PROGRAMMING, SOMETHING ELSE INSTEAD OF THAT NIGHT. BUT, YOU KNOW, DONALD TRUMP KNOWS TWO THINGS. IF IT'S A SHOW, EVERYONE'S GOING TO WATCH, HE CAN'T HELP HIMSELF. SO I DO THINK IF HE FEELS THE CRUSH OF IT AND I THINK THAT THE DATES BEING SO CLOSE TO EACH OTHER WITH EVERYTHING HERE, AS JON KARL JUST POINTED OUT, IS REALLY SUPER IMPORTANT BECAUSE DONALD TRUMP, IF ANYTHING KNOWS HOW TO THROW OUT A SHINY OBJECT RIGHT. HOW MANY TIMES WAS THERE SOMETHING WHEN HE WAS IN THE WHITE HOUSE THAT WE WERE ALL TALKING ABOUT AND THEN HE'D DO SOMETHING ELSE TO MOVE US FORWARD? I COULD SEE A WORLD THAT WHEN WE START TO LOOK AT THIS CALENDAR, IF IT FALLS AROUND OTHER EVENTS, THAT WE'D BE SURPRISED HE'D SHOW UP TOO, GIVEN THE OTHER THINGS GOING ON RIGHT NOW FOR HIM, HE'D ABSOLUTELY GO. SO I THINK IT'S SOMETHING CERTAINLY POSSIBLE, BUT WE'LL HAVE TO SEE SOON. >> I THINK IT'S A VERY STARK AND IMMEDIATE EXAMPLE OF THE COLLISION OF THESE CRIMINAL CASES AND THE CAMPAIGN FOR PRESIDENT. WE'RE SEEING IT ALREADY IN THE FINAL DAYS OF AUGUST, THE FIRST HEARING IN THIS CASE, WHICH ARGUABLY IS THE MORE SIGNIFICANT WHEN WE LOOK BACK AT US, HISTORY NEVER BEFORE HAVE WE SEEN A FORMER PRESIDENT CHARGED CRIMINALLY AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL WITH TRYING TO OVERTURN AN ELECTION TO TRY TO HOLD ON TO POWER IN THE WHITE HOUSE. THE SPECIAL COUNSEL ALLEGING THAT DONALD TRUMP KNEW THAT HE HAD LOST THE ELECTION. AND THAT IS WHAT THESE FOUR COUNTS STEM FROM. THE OBSTRUCTION COUNTS, OBVIOUSLY HAVE TO DO WITH THE CERTIFICATION OF THE ELECTION. AND THE OTHER KEY PART OF THIS PROSECUTION WILL BE THE FAKE ELECTORS SCHEME. AND IN THE 45 PAGE INDICTMENT, WHICH CERTAINLY DOESN'T LAY OUT ALL OF JACK SMITH'S EVIDENCE, AS WE WOULDN'T EXPECT THAT WOULD BE THE CASE. BUT HE DOES LAY OUT EVIDENCE THAT HE HAS. HE BELIEVES THAT DIRECTOR LEE LINKS FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP TO THAT SCHEME TO SOMEHOW COME UP WITH DIFFERENT ELECTORS TO REPRESENT THOSE STATES SO AS TO REPRESENT DIFFERENT OUTCOMES THAN ACTUALLY WHAT PLAYED OUT. I WANT TO BRING IN RICK KLEIN BECAUSE, RICK, I'M JUST THINKING THROUGH IN MY HEAD AGAIN, THIS THIS IMMEDIATE EXAMPLE OF THESE TWO THINGS COLLIDING. THE CAMPAIGN TRAIN AND THESE CRIMINAL TRIALS. I KNOW MIKE PENCE IS WORKING VERY HARD TO GET HIS REQUIREMENTS MET SO THAT HE COULD BE ON THAT REPUBLICAN DEBATE STAGE. SO YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE POTENTIAL, RICK, OF HAVING MIKE PENCE UP THERE WHO COULD BE THE STAR WITNESS IN THIS CASE, AND DONALD TRUMP, WHO IS THE DEFENDANT IN THIS CASE, SHARING A SPOT ON THAT STAGE AND THEN A JUDGE WHO JUST SAID YOU CAN'T COMMUNICATE ABOUT THE FACTS OF THE CASE WITH ANYONE. TRUMP KNOWS TO BE A WITNESS EXCEPT THROUGH COUNSEL. WELL, YOU KNOW, I DON'T EVEN WANT TO MAKE ANY KIND OF JOKE HERE. LIKE YOU'D NEED COUNSEL IN THE AUDIENCE TO SORT OF NAVIGATE THE WHOLE THING. BUT I MAKE THIS POINT ONLY BECAUSE IT'S A STARK EXAMPLE OF WHAT WE'RE GOING TO FACE COVERING, REPORTING OUT AND WHAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WILL WITNESS OVER THE COURSE OF THIS CAMPAIGN AND THE MONTHS AHEAD. DAVID IT'S MIND BLOWING. >> THINK ABOUT IT, MIKE PENCE JUST YESTERDAY SAID HE'D BE OPEN TO TESTIFYING AGAINST DONALD TRUMP. HE IS KNOWN TO BE A POTENTIAL WITNESS. THE JUDGE IS JUST ORDERING HIM NOT TO HAVE ANY COMMUNICATIONS WITH POTENTIAL WITNESSES. WELL, WHAT ABOUT IF AT A REPUBLICAN DEBATE JANUARY 6TH COMES UP, ARE MIKE PENCE AND DONALD TRUMP NOT ABLE TO ARGUE ABOUT IT WITH DONALD TRUMP? FORCE, FORCE A JUDGE TO POTENTIALLY REVOKE THE TERMS OF HIS RELEASE IF HE GETS INTO A BIG PUBLIC ARGUMENT WITH MIKE PENCE OVER WHAT DID OR DIDN'T HAPPEN ON JANUARY 6TH. AND THAT'S TO SAY NOTHING OF THE FACT THAT THAT DONALD TRUMP OFTEN SAYS THE QUIET PART OUT LOUD. HE'S GOING TO GIVE INTERVIEWS. HE IS GOING TO POST ON HIS SOCIAL MEDIA CHANNELS, AND HE IS GOING TO SAY A LOT ABOUT THE FACTS OF THIS CASE, MUCH OF IT UNTRUE, NO DOUBT, AS HE HAS SAID BEFORE, AND ALL OF THAT GETS GET GRIST FOR THE MILL. NOW, OBVIOUSLY, HE CAN MAKE PUBLIC STATEMENTS. NO ONE IS GOING TO INFRINGE ON HIS FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS, BUT IT JUST TELLS YOU WHAT THIS REALLY MEANS IN PRACTICE WITH THESE WITH THE POLITICAL AND THE LEGAL CALENDAR BEGINNING TO COMBINE, TO COLLIDE, IT MAY BE THAT DONALD TRUMP IS NOT ABLE TO COMPLY WITH THE LETTER OF EVERYTHING THAT IS BEING LAID OUT FOR HIM BY THIS JUDGE, AND IT COULD EASILY LAND BEFORE A JUDGE AGAIN. AND THERE'S GOING TO BE LOTS OF TIMES THAT HE'S TEMPTED AS HE IS CHALLENGED ON THE FACTS OF THIS CASE AS A CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT, IF NOTHING ELSE, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO ASK HIM THESE QUESTIONS. HIS FELLOW CANDIDATES ARE GOING TO ASK THEM THE QUESTIONS IF THEY SHARE A DEBATE STAGE. AND YES, IT COULD BE PENCE AND TRUMP GOING HEAD TO HEAD ON A DEBATE STAGE LONG BEFORE PENCE IS ON A WITNESS STAND. >> STICK WITH US HERE, RICK. WE'VE JUST LEARNED THE PROCEEDING IN COURT HAS WRAPPED UP. WE WILL HEAR FROM OUR REPORTER INSIDE THAT COURTROOM THE MOMENT THEY COME OUTSIDE. SO STAY TUNED HERE. LET'S GO RIGHT BACK TO RICK KLEIN BECAUSE RICK, ONE QUICK FOLLOW UP. WHAT DOES MIKE PENCE STILL NEED TO DO IN ORDER TO GET ON THAT DEBATE STAGE? >> HE'S GOT TO GET ABOUT 10,000 ADDITIONAL DONATIONS. HE HAS SAID THAT HE HAS HAD A SPIKE IN DONATIONS IN THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS. AND YOU MENTIONED EARLIER THE FACT THAT HE IS ACTIVELY RAISING MONEY OFF OF THIS INDICTMENT, INCLUDING SELLING THAT HAT WITH THE TRUMP QUOTE, SAYING THAT HE WAS TOO HONEST. THEY ARE LEANING IN ON THIS CHANGING THE CAMPAIGN MESSAGING RIGHT BEFORE THE IOWA STATE FAIR NEXT WEEK. HE IS HOPING THAT THIS GETS HIM OVER THAT MARK A COUPLE OF CANDIDATES ARE IN THE SAME POSITION. THEY WANT TO BE ON A DEBATE STAGE WHETHER OR NOT DONALD TRUMP IS THERE. >> AND DONALD TRUMP KNOWS FULL WELL THAT A LOT OF EYES, IF YOU'RE TRYING TO REACH A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF EYES, A LOT OF EYES WOULD BE TUNING IN TO THAT DEBATE IF PEOPLE KNEW THAT THERE WAS THE POTENTIAL AND AGAIN, THIS IS JUST THE FIRST EXAMPLE OF THIS, BUT THE POTENTIAL TO HAVE DONALD TRUMP AND MIKE PENCE SHARING A STAGE WITH ONE SERVING AS THE DEFENDANT IN THIS HISTORIC CASE, THE OTHER PERHAPS THE STAR WITNESS AGAINST HIM. YEAH WHAT A SHOW IT WOULD BE. >> AND OF COURSE, WITH LEGAL CONSEQUENCES ALONG THE WAY. AND IT'S HARD TO IMAGINE THAT THIS WON'T BE ONE OF THE CENTRAL, IF NOT THE CENTRAL ISSUE OF THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY FROM HERE ON OUT. THE FACT THAT HE FACES THESE MULTIPLE INDICTMENTS AND THE FACT OF HIS ACTIONS WHEN CONTRASTED WITH PENCE'S ACTIONS, THERE'S AT LEAST ONE OTHER CANDIDATE IN TIM SCOTT, WHO IS ALSO A WITNESS TO THE EVENTS OF JANUARY 6TH, IS UTTERLY EXTRA ORDINARY TO THINK ABOUT HOW HE IS NOW BEING PROSECUTED FOR THE VERY EVENTS THAT THE NATION WITNESSED AND SOME OF THESE RIVAL CANDIDATES WITNESSED TWO AND A HALF YEARS AGO. >> RICK KLEIN, OUR POLITICAL DIRECTOR. RICK, THANK YOU. STICK WITH US HERE. I WANT TO BRING IN AARON KATERSKY LIVE OUTSIDE THE COURTHOUSE. WE UNDERSTAND THE FORMER PRESIDENT HAS LEFT THE COURTROOM. AARON, AS WE KNOW, WE'VE HAD A READOUT THAT THE COUNTS WERE READ BEFORE THE FORMER PRESIDENT. HE WAS ALSO REMINDED OF WHAT THE POTENTIAL PRISON SENTENCES COULD REACH THE MAXIMUM SENTENCE IS NOT EXPECTED , BUT IT IS REQUIRED OF THE JUDGE TO LAY IT OUT FOR EACH COUNT. AND THEN THE FORMER PRESIDENT PLEADING NOT GUILTY IN HIS OWN WORDS. WHAT OTHER COLOR CAN YOU OFFER AND HOW SOON COULD WE EXPECT TO SEE ANY IMAGES OF THE FORMER PRESIDENT? >> WE EXPECT THE FORMER PRESIDENT TO LEAVE THE COURT ANY MOMENT NOW, DAVID. AND WHEN HE EMERGES FROM THIS COURTHOUSE, HE IS GOING TO WALK INTO A OR AT LEAST SEE FROM THE WINDOW OF HIS MOTORCADE A SEA OF SUPPORTERS WHO'VE BEEN BLARING MUSIC AND CHANTING SLOGANS FROM A GIANT SPEAKER SET UP ACROSS THE STREET. THERE ARE A NUMBER OF HIS SUPPORTERS HERE WAVING FLAGS AND DENOUNCING THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, MERRICK GARLAND. THERE ARE ALSO DETRACTORS OF THE FORMER PRESIDENT WHO ARE CARRYING SIGNS SAYING LOCK HIM UP. WE HAVE SEEN THIS KIND OF CARNIVAL. FOLLOW HIM FROM NEW YORK TO FLORIDA HERE TO WASHINGTON, DC. BUT DURING THE MOTORCADE AWAY FROM COURT, HE IS GOING TO SEE ALL OF THESE PROTESTERS WHO'VE COME HERE TO SEE HIM ONCE AGAIN, THE CENTER OF THE SHOW. >> DAVID, OUR TEAM INSIDE THAT COURTHOUSE, AARON KATERSKY OUTSIDE AARON, THANK YOU. WE HAVE LEARNED THAT SPECIAL PROSECUTOR TOM WINDHAM APPROACHED THE BENCH AND REQUESTED OF THE FEDERAL MAGISTRATE, THE JUDGE OVERSEEING THIS FIRST HEARING, A SPEEDY TRIAL. WHILE DONALD TRUMP'S LEGAL TEAM REPEATED, HE REFUTED THAT REQUEST, ASKING THE NEED FOR A FAIR TRIAL AND AN AMPLE OPPORTUNITY FOR THE DEFENSE TO REVIEW A MASSIVE AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE TO BE ENTERED BY THE GOVERNMENT. THIS CASE WILL BENEFIT FROM NORMAL ORDER, INCLUDING A SPEEDY TRIAL. THE SPECIAL COUNSEL PROSECUTOR, TOM WINDHAM, ARGUED. THE JUDGE RESPONDED TO WINDHAM BY SAYING THE COURT WOULD ENSURE A FAIR TRIAL, BUT THE JUDGE NOT ELABORATING WHAT A FAIR TRIAL MEANS WITH RESPECT TO THE TIMELINE. SO, AGAIN, THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR, A MEMBER OF JACK SMITH'S TEAM IN THIS CASE, APPROACHING THE BENCH, ASKING FOR A SPEEDY TRIAL. ALL THIS IS AN EXPECTED DEVELOPMENT THAT THE REACTION TO THAT FROM DONALD TRUMP'S LEGAL TEAM, THEY REPEATEDLY REFUTED THIS REQUEST, ASKING THE NEED FOR A FAIR TRIAL AND AN AMPLE OPPORTUNITY, AGAIN, TO REVIEW THE SIGNIFICANT THE MASSIVE AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE OF THE WORDS FROM THE READOUT TO BE ENTERED BY THE GOVERNMENT. AND THIS IS AN ARGUMENT THAT WE EXPECTED FROM DONALD TRUMP'S LEGAL TEAM AND QUITE FRANKLY, NAT ABRAMS. IT'S ALSO AN ARGUMENT WE EXPECTED TO HEAR FROM JACK SMITH, THE SPECIAL COUNSEL SPEEDY TRIAL, DONALD TRUMP'S TEAM SAYING, WHOA, IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE FAST. IT JUST NEEDS TO BE FAIR. WE HAVE A LOT OF EVIDENCE TO GO OVER AND REMEMBER THAT THE, YOU KNOW, THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO A SPEEDY TRIAL IS THE DEFENDANT'S RIGHT. >> IT'S NOT THE PROSECUTION'S RIGHT. >> AND USUALLY THAT'S BECAUSE THE DEFENDANT MIGHT BE IN PRISON, YOU KNOW, TO GET THEM OUT OF PRISON, THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO DEFEND THEMSELVES. >> EXACTLY. THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO HEAR THE EVIDENCE. THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO LITIGATE IT. ET CETERA. SO WHILE IT'S INTERESTING THAT SPECIAL COUNSEL SMITH AND HIS TEAM ARE ASKING FOR A SPEEDY TRIAL, I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S GOING TO HAVE THAT MUCH OF AN IMPACT BECAUSE THE DEFENDANT REALLY DOES HAVE MORE CONTROL OVER HOW QUICKLY A TRIAL MOVES. NOW ULTIMATELY, IT'S UP TO THE JUDGE. THE JUDGE IS THE ONE WHO WILL DECIDE HOW QUICKLY DOES THIS TRIAL MOVE FORWARD. WE NOW KNOW THAT PROSECCO SHOOTERS WANT IT TO MOVE QUICKLY. WE KNOW THAT THE DEFENSE WANTS IT TO MOVE SLOWLY. NOW IT'S GOING TO BE UP TO THE JUDGE. >> AND IT WAS INTERESTING, THE JUDGE SAID THE COURT WILL ENSURE A FAIR TRIAL, DID NOT ELABORATE ON TIMING. RIGHT. >> BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO WAY THAT THE COURT CAN TODAY SAY, OH, WELL, THIS IS GOING TO BE TWO MONTHS FROM NOW OR TWO YEARS FROM NOW, HOW LONG THE CASE IS GOING TO TAKE. SO THIS IS, YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE INITIAL PROCEEDING HERE. SO I DON'T THINK THAT THAT PARTICULAR STATEMENT FROM THE SPECIAL COUNSEL'S OFFICE AT THIS TIME IS GOING TO HAVE MUCH SIGNIFICANCE. >> WE ARE EXPECTING THE POSSIBILITY, AND WE DON'T KNOW FOR SURE THE POSSIBILITY THAT WE MIGHT HEAR FROM THE FORMER PRESIDENT IF AND WHEN THAT HAPPENS, WE'LL LISTEN TO IT. WE'LL DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT TO BRING THAT TO YOU RIGHT HERE WHILE WE'RE ON OR WHETHER WE DO IT AS PART OF OUR COVERAGE ON WORLD NEWS TONIGHT. IN THE MEANTIME, THE OTHER QUESTION, JACK SMITH, WE HEAR FROM HIM SO INFREQUENTLY, ONLY TWICE NOW, ONCE ON THE MAR-A-LAGO CASE AND ONCE IN THIS CASE. HE'S ESSENTIALLY SAYING THAT DONALD TRUMP SHOULD BE PRESUMED INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY IN A COURT OF LAW AND ALSO MAKING THAT THE SAME REQUEST HE MADE IN THE MAR A LAGO CASE TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO PLEASE READ IN SO MANY WORDS THE 45 PAGE INDICTMENT HERE. >> DAVID, HE REALLY IS JACK SMITH TRYING TO DO THIS BY THE BOOK. HE'S TRYING TO SAY, YES, I'M AGGRESSIVE. YES, I'M PURSUING THIS CASE. BUT HE IS PRESUMED INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. HE WANTED TO DO THAT. HE'S EMPHASIZED THAT TWICE, AS YOU SAID. AND, DAVID, THE OTHER POINT I'M LOOKING AT THOSE IMAGES OF STREETS CLOSED, A GANTLET OF SECURITY AROUND THE COURTHOUSE. IT'S JUST ANOTHER REMINDER THAT A FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES IS IN A FEDERAL COURTHOUSE IN WASHINGTON, D.C. FACING POTENTIAL CRIMINAL CHARGES. THIS IS ALL BECOMING FAMILIAR BECAUSE WE'VE SEEN IT PLAY OUT IN NEW YORK AND FLORIDA AND NOW WASHINGTON. BUT THIS IS STILL REALLY EXTRAORDINARY WHAT WE'RE WITNESSING. >> AND NOW WE'RE WATCHING THE MOTORCADE. TRUMP DEPARTING THE FEDERAL COURTHOUSE, NOW BACK IN ROUTE TO REAGAN AIRPORT, WHERE THE PLANE AWAITS. THIS WILL BRING THE FORMER PRESIDENT BACK TO BEDMINSTER AGAIN, I SUGGESTED THE POSSIBILITY WE MIGHT HEAR FROM DONALD TRUMP IF WE'RE ON THE AIR. CERTAINLY WE'LL LISTEN TO THAT FOR YOU AND BRING THAT TO YOU IF IT HAPPENS AFTER OUR COVERAGE HERE TODAY. CERTAINLY THE TEAM WILL HAVE IT ON WORLD NEWS. KATHERINE FAULDERS WAS INSIDE THE COURTROOM. SHE'S NOW OUTSIDE THE COURTHOUSE. AND KATHERINE, TAKE US THROUGH WHAT YOU WITNESSED. >> SO THE FORMER PRESIDENT WALKED INTO THIS COURTROOM AND THIS IS NOT A MAN WHO WAITS FOR MEETINGS VERY LONG AT ALL. HE SAT THERE FOR 25 MINUTES. THE FORMER PRESIDENT, BEFORE THIS STARTED, JACK SMITH, WAS IN THE ROOM WHEN TRUMP CAME INTO THE ROOM. HE BEING THE FORMER PRESIDENT, LOOKED AROUND THE ROOM. HE LOOKED AT WHO WAS THERE. HE DID LOOK IN SMITH'S DIRECTION. HE MOUTHED THE WORD NOT TO SMITH, BUT GENERALLY TO THE COURTROOM. HE SAID HI. HE LOOKED IN THE DIRECTION OF SOME OF HIS OTHER ATTORNEYS WHO CAME IN. I WILL SAY THAT. SMITH JACK SMITH FROM MY VANTAGE POINT, I WAS ABOUT TO ROWS BEHIND. SMITH DID APPEAR TO LOOK IN TRUMP'S DIRECTION. A LOT OF THE TIME. TRUMP DID. I COULD SEE HIS FACE FROM WHERE I WAS SITTING. DID A GLANCE AT HIM QUITE A FEW TIMES. IT'S UNCLEAR IF THEY MADE ANY EYE CONTACT. THEY WERE ABOUT 20FT IN MY ESTIMATE, APART FROM ONE ANOTHER. BUT DURING THAT 25 MINUTES, AS TRUMP AND HIS LAWYER SAT THERE, HE WAS JOINED BY HIS LAWYERS AT THE DEFENSE TABLE, TODD BLANCH AND JOHN LAURO, WHO THEY HIRED TO LEAD THE JANUARY 6TH LEGAL FIGHT. HE THE WHOLE TIME MOST OF THE TIME, I SHOULD SAY, ENGAGED IN CONVERSATION OFTEN WITH HIS COUNSEL, DIDN'T SEEM ENTIRELY SOLEMN IN ANY WAY. THE TIMES WHEN HE DID SIT THERE SILENTLY, WHICH WAS NOT VERY OFTEN THIS IS, OF COURSE, BEFORE THE JUDGE CAME IN, HE HAD HIS HANDS CROSSED. HE LOOKED OVER AT PROSECUTORS AT THE TABLE, LOOKED AT JACK SMITH A FEW TIMES THERE, BUT HE DID ENGAGE QUITE A BIT WITH HIS LAWYERS. NOW, THE INTERESTING THING TO ME, WITH THE ENGAGING WITH THE LAWYERS WAS THEY DID HIRE THIS NEW LAWYER, JOHN LAURO, WHO IS SAID TO BE LEADING THE JANUARY 6TH EFFORT HERE. HE DIDN'T ENGAGE WITH HIM MUCH. TRUMP DIDN'T HE ENGAGE WITH HIS OTHER LAWYER, TODD BLANCH, MOST OF THE TIME, OF COURSE, YOU COULDN'T HEAR WHAT THEY WERE SAYING. IT SEEMED ANIMATED AT TIMES. HE LAUGHED. AT TIMES. I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT THAT TRUMP HIMSELF ENTERED THE PLEA OF NOT GUILTY. HE STOOD UP WHEN HE DID THAT. HIS ATTORNEY WAS AT THE MICROPHONE. AND I WILL SAY THAT JACK SMITH DID TALK TO PROSECUTORS ALSO MOST OF THE TIME. HIS SPOKESPERSON, TRUMP SPOKESPERSON STEVEN CHEUNG, WAS IN THERE. NOW, THE JUDGE READ TO THE FORMER PRESIDENT IN COURT THE COUNTS COUNTS ONE THROUGH FOUR, ASKING HIM IF HE UNDERSTOOD THESE COUNTS. HE LOOKED AT HER. HE SAID HE DID UNDERSTAND AND THE COUNTS. WHEN THE JUDGE WAS SPEAKING, HE LOOKED AT THE JUDGE THE WHOLE TIME. THERE WAS ONE INSTANCE WHERE THE JUDGE WAS READING THE CONDITIONS. IF HE WERE TO VIOLATE, IF TRUMP WERE TO VIOLATE THE CONDITIONS OF HIS RELEASE, WHICH INCLUDES INTIMIDATING WITNESSES, FOR EXAMPLE, SHE SAID IT COULD RESULT IN CONSEQUENCES IF YOU VIOLATE THE TERMS OF YOUR RELEASE. AT ONE POINT, SHE SAID, CONSIDER LICENSES LIKE YOUR ARREST TO WHICH HE SHOOK HIS HEAD IN FRUSTRATE. THEN YOU COULD TELL AT ONE POINT HE WAS READING THE INDICTMENT. THE INDICTMENT WAS IN FRONT OF THE FORMER PRESIDENT AND HE WAS FLIPPING THROUGH IT. HE WAS READING IT. AT ONE POINT. HE SIGNS PAPERS. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THOSE PAPERS WERE. ALSO IN THE COURTROOM, DAVID, AND THIS IS SIGNIFICANT. IF YOU'VE BEEN FOLLOWING ANY OF THE LITIGATION ON THAT. WE'VE BEEN REPORTING ON ON OUR NETWORK, THE CHIEF JUDGE FOR THE COURT WAS IN THE COURTROOM. THIS IS HE'S BEEN HEARING CASES UNDER SEAL WHERE TRUMP'S LAWYERS HAVE BEEN ARGUING THAT THEY DON'T WANT CERTAIN WITNESSES TO TESTIFY AS IT RELATED TO JANUARY 6TH. THERE WERE MULTIPLE JUDGES IN THIS COURTROOM AND THEY HAVE ALL HAD 1ST JANUARY SIXTH CASES BEFORE THEM. SO HE WAS IN THERE FOR QUITE A BIT OF TIME. HE DID LOOK OVER OF COURSE, AT THE SPECIAL COUNSEL. UNCLEAR WHETHER THEY MADE EYE CONTACT. AND THEN, OF COURSE, LEFT THE COURTROOM WITH HIS ATTORNEYS. >> KATHERINE, A COUPLE OF FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS GIVEN THE COLOR THAT WE HAVE REPORTED OUT WHILE YOU WERE INSIDE THE COURTROOM. AND AGAIN, WE'RE LOOKING LIVE PICTURES OF THE MOTORCADE, THE PRESIDENTIAL MOTORCADE, IF YOU WILL, A FORMER PRESIDENT COMING BACK TO WASHINGTON. AND WE POINTED OUT A NUMBER OF TIMES, AS WE'VE BEEN ON THE AIR THIS AFTERNOON, CERTAINLY NOT THE RETURN DONALD TRUMP WAS EXPECTED OR HOPING FOR, BUT HAS RETURNED TO WASHINGTON TO FACE THESE HISTORIC FOUR CRIMINAL COUNTS AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL, ALL ACCUSED OF TRYING TO OVERTURN THE 2020 ELECTION. THE SPECIAL COUNSEL MAKING THE CASE THAT THE PRESIDENT KNEW THAT HE HAD LOST AND CONTINUED TO WORK TO HOLD ON TO POWER. AND THE WHITE HOUSE ANYWAY, WITH HELP FROM SEVERAL COCONSPIRATORS NOT CHARGED, AT LEAST AS OF YET. AND AS WE WATCH THIS MOTORCADE TAKING DONALD TRUMP BACK TO THE AIRPORT, WE ARE GOING TO MONITOR THIS TO SEE IF WE ARE GOING TO HEAR ANYTHING FROM THE FORMER PRESIDENT BEFORE HE BOARDS THAT PLANE TO GO BACK TO BEDMINSTER. THOSE OF YOU WATCHING IN THE EAST HERE SHOULD ALSO STAY TUNED FOR YOUR LOCAL NEWS. THE MOMENT WE WRAP UP OUR COVERAGE HERE. ONE OF THE QUESTIONS I HAD FOR YOU, KATHERINE, WAS THE DESCRIPTION THAT CAME FROM THE COURTROOM OF, YOU KNOW, AND OBVIOUSLY THIS HELPS TO PUT INTO STARK REALITY THE WEIGHT OF THIS, HOW DIFFERENT THIS IS GIVEN THE FACT THAT WE HAVE A VERY PUBLIC VERSION OF DONALD TRUMP. THE COUNTRY KNOWS HIM VERY WELL. PEOPLE EITHER SUPPORT HIM OR THEY, YOU KNOW, ARE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE PROSPECT OF HIM BEING PRESIDENT AGAIN. YOU KNOW, TWO VERY DIFFERENT CAMPS IN THIS COUNTRY. BUT WHEN YOU HEAR ABOUT HIM WAITING FOR 25 MINUTES FOR THE JUDGE TO GO IN, AND THEN THERE WAS ANOTHER MOMENT DESCRIBED AS SOMEWHAT AWKWARD WHEN HE GOT UP TO GO OVER TO A MICROPHONE TO SPELL OUT HIS NAME, IF YOU WILL. THE JUDGE TELLING DONALD TRUMP THAT WASN'T NECESSARY. HE COULD RETURN TO HIS SEAT. >> YEAH, THAT WAS A BIT OF AN AWKWARD MOMENT IN THERE. TRUMP GOT UP AND TRIED TO GO OVER TO THE MICROPHONE. SHE SAID THAT WASN'T NECESSARY. BUT THE REASON THAT THAT HAPPENED IN THE COURTROOM WAS BECAUSE THE MICROPHONE WHEN THE FORMER PRESIDENT FIRST SAT DOWN AT THE TABLE WAS RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM. AND AT TIMES, AS YOU COULD NOT EXACTLY HEAR WHAT THEY WERE SAYING, BUT IT TEETERED ON THE VERGE OF BEING AUDIBLE AND YOU COULD TELL TRUMP OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T WANT ANYBODY IN THE COURTROOM TO HEAR WHAT HE WAS SAYING. SO HIS LAWYERS ACTUALLY MOVED THAT MICROPHONE TO THE END OF THE TABLE. SO, OF COURSE, WHEN TRUMP THOUGHT HE HAD TO SPEAK, HE THEN GETS UP AND GOES TO THE MICROPHONE. AND THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT OF A DANCE AND AWKWARD MOMENT, AS WAS DESCRIBED BY YOU IN OUR REPORTING IN THE COURTROOM. OF COURSE, HE SAT DOWN AND ANSWERED THESE QUESTIONS THAT THE JUDGE READ ALOUD. HE SAID THAT HE UNDERSTOOD AND THAT THE COUNTS AGAINST HIM, THAT HE UNDERSTOOD, FINDS HIS CONDITIONS OF RELEASE, HIS RIGHTS. FOR EXAMPLE, HE SAID TO THE JUDGE, I DO. HE WAS WATCHING HER THE WHOLE TIME AS SHE SPOKE AND APPEARED, YOU KNOW, TO ANSWER ALL OF HER QUESTIONS IN FULL AND LOOK AT HER THE WHOLE TIME. NOW, AT TIMES I WILL SAY THAT WHEN THE WHEN THE JUDGE ADDRESSED PROSECUTORS, YOU COULD SEE THE FORMER PRESIDENT GLANCE OVER AT THEIR TABLE. AND ALSO JACK SMITH . >> DAVID, EVER THE ASTUTE OBSERVER, KATHERINE FAULDERS, WHO APTLY DESCRIBED THE SCENE, THE AWKWARD MOMENT, BUT EXPLAINING TO US HOW AND WHY THAT PLAYED OUT. AND IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE NOW WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT A LITTLE MICROPHONE THAT'S AT THE DEFENSE TABLE, YOU DON'T WANT ALL OF YOUR CONVERSATION WITH YOUR DEFENSE LAWYERS TO BE HEARD BY REPORTERS IN THAT COURTROOM FOR SURE. AND SO PERHAPS THAT WAS HIS GUIDING PRINCIPLE WHEN HE WENT BACK OVER TO THE MICROPHONE WHEN THE JUDGE WAS ASKING HIM TO TALK. IN THE MEANTIME, KATHERINE, TO SOMETHING MORE SERIOUS THAN THAT MOMENT I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT. WE HIT ON THIS A MOMENT AGO, AND THAT IS THIS ALMOST IMMEDIATE DEBATE FROM BOTH SIDES ABOUT THE TIMELINE HERE. WE HEARD A MEMBER OF JACK SMITH'S TEAM ASKING THE JUDGE FOR A SPEEDY TRIAL, MAKING THE CASE INITIALLY FOR THIS TO MOVE AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. OBVIOUSLY HE THE DONALD TRUMP'S TEAM REFUTING THAT IMMEDIATELY AS WE WOULD EXPECT THEY WOULD. THE JUDGE RESPONDED TO CONCERNS FROM THE DEFENSE, SAYING THERE WILL BE A FAIR PROCESS AND A FAIR TRIAL IN THIS COURT. I AM CERTAIN OF THAT IS WHAT THE FEDERAL MAGISTRATE JUDGE SAID. DONALD TRUMP'S LAWYER THEN RESPONDED ABOUT THE SPECIAL COUNSEL AND SAID THEY'VE HAD THREE AND A HALF YEARS TO INVESTIGATE THIS MATTER. AND ALSO THERE ARE A NUMBER OF AGENTS AND LAWYERS THAT ARE ASSISTING THE GOVERNMENT IN THIS PROCEEDING. AND ALL WE WOULD ASK FOR IS THE OPPORTUNITY TO FAIRLY DEFEND OUR CLIENT. BUT IN ORDER TO DO THAT, WE'RE GOING TO NEED A LITTLE TIME TO THAT. THE JUDGE THEN RESPONDED TO RAISE ANY CONCERNS WITH THE DISTRICT JUDGE OVERSEEING THE TRIAL. AND OF COURSE, WE KNOW THAT'S THE JUDGE SET TO TAKE OVER AT THE HEARING . AS AS I UNDERSTAND IT, KATHERINE, WHICH IS NOW SET FOR LATER THIS MONTH. >> YEAH, THE NEXT HEARING, DAVID, IS SET FOR AUGUST 28TH AT 10 A.M, I BELIEVE THAT'S WHAT WAS AGREED UPON. BUT THAT ARGUMENT THAT YOU LAID OUT THERE, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE'RE NOT JUST HEARING FROM TRUMP LAWYERS IN THE JANUARY 6TH CASE. AND BY THE WAY, SO SOON, GIVEN THAT THIS OCCURRED BEFORE THE MAGISTRATE JUDGE. BUT IT'S ALSO THE SAME ARGUMENT YOU'RE HEARING IN THE MAR-A-LAGO DOCUMENTS CASE. IT'S A BIT OF A BACKWARDS ARGUMENT, SOME LEGAL EXPERTS WOULD SAY, BECAUSE EVERY DEFENDANT IS ENTITLED TO A SPEEDY TRIAL. ALL THE TRUMP LAWYERS OBVIOUSLY WANT TO KICK THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD WITH THIS. THEY MENTIONED THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE ALL SORTS OF DISCOVERY THAT THEY ARE ENTITLED TO AND THEY JUST WON'T BE ABLE TO GET THIS DONE IN A SPEEDY FASHION. OF COURSE, GIVEN ALL THE OTHER TRIALS AND HOW HIS POLITICAL CALENDAR IS CONVERGING WITH THE LEGAL CALENDAR, IF YOU WILL. SO THEY HAVE TO FILE A ADDITIONAL BRIEFS WITH THIS DISTRICT JUDGE AND YOU WILL SEE THOSE ARGUMENTS, OF COURSE, LAID OUT BY PROSECUTORS AND BY TRUMP'S LEGAL TEAM. I THINK THAT THEY WILL BE PRETTY SIMILAR TO THE ONES WE'VE SEEN ALREADY. NOW, WHETHER THEY REQUEST AN INDEFINITE TRIAL DELAY, FOR EXAMPLE, AS THEY DID IN THE MAR A LAGO CASE, THAT'S TO BE DETERMINED. BUT I'M TOLD AT LEAST FROM SOURCES, THAT WE COULD EXPECT SOMETHING SIMILAR AT LEAST FROM THE TRUMP LEGAL TEAM, AS WE'VE SEEN PREVIOUSLY. >> DAVID, STICK WITH US. KATHERINE, WE'RE WATCHING LIVE PICTURES OF THE MOTORCADE BRINGING DONALD TRUMP BACK TO REAGAN AIRPORT. AND FOR THOSE OF US WHO KNOW WASHINGTON WELL, WE ALL FEEL LIKE WE'RE ESSENTIALLY GOING TO THE AIRPORT HERE ON A RAINY SUMMER AFTERNOON IN WASHINGTON. THERE YOU SEE THE PLANES OFF IN THE DISTANCE. SO WE'RE JUST MOMENTS AWAY FROM SEEING WHETHER OR NOT DONALD TRUMP WILL MAKE ANY SORT OF STATEMENT BEFORE HE BOARDS THAT PLANE HEADING BACK TO BEDMINSTER. ONE LAST QUESTION FOR YOU, KATHERINE, AND THEN WE'LL LET YOU GO AND GATHER ANY MORE REPORTING YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET YOUR HANDS ON. BUT WAS THE OVERALL DEMEANOR OF DONALD TRUMP WE'VE NOW WATCHED THIS PLAY OUT IN A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT CASES. IS THIS ONE, OF COURSE, ITS PLACE IN HISTORY AND THE LEGAL CONSEQUENCES LARGELY BUILT, NEED TO BE MUCH MORE SIGNIFICANT THAN THE OTHERS. WHAT WAS HIS DEMEANOR IN COURT TODAY? >> ABSOLUTELY. AND I WILL SAY DURING THOSE 25 MINUTES, HIS DEMEANOR WAS ONE THAT HE TALKED TO HIS LAWYERS THE WHOLE TIME. IT WAS FASCINATING TO SEE. THERE WAS VERY LITTLE TIME IN THAT COURTROOM WHERE TRUMP WASN'T CONSULTING MAINLY WITH HIS ATTORNEY, TODD BLANCH. OF COURSE , WHEN HE WASN'T TALKING TO HIS ATTORNEY AND ASKING QUESTIONS THAT WE COULDN'T HEAR, OF COURSE, BECAUSE THE MIC WAS MOVED, HE SAT THERE SILENTLY, STARED DOWN AT HIS HANDS, LOOKED AT THE PROSECUTOR'S TABLE, BUT AGAIN, VERY LITTLE TIME THAT HE WAS IN THERE WHERE HE WASN'T TALKING, WHERE HE WASN'T LOOKING AROUND, SCANNING THE ROOM, APPEARING TO ASK WHO WAS IN THE ROOM IF HE DIDN'T KNOW WHO THE PEOPLE WERE. AT ONE POINT. AND AGAIN, YOU CAN'T HEAR HIM, BUT IT SEEMED AS THOUGH HE WAS ASKING HIS ATTORNEY WHO THE OTHER PROSECUTOR WAS AT THE TABLE WERE. OF COURSE, TOM WYNDHAM IS ONE OF THEM WHO HAS BEEN LEADING THE JANUARY SIXTH EFFORT. BUT THERE WERE TWO MORE. IT APPEARED THAT HIS LAWYER WAS TRYING TO EXPLAIN THAT. AND I JUST THINK IT'S WORTH EMPHASIZING, AS WE'RE SEEING THESE IMAGES HERE, THE FORMER PRESIDENT MIGHT GET OUT OF THE CAR AND POTENTIALLY SPEAK. BUT YOU MENTIONED PLACE IN HISTORY, AND THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO PUT THIS IN PERSPECTIVE, OF COURSE, HE'S APPEARED IN COURT MULTIPLE TIMES NOW TO ENTER NOT GUILTY PLEAS. BUT I WILL TELL YOU THAT FROM WHERE I'M STANDING, I CAN SEE THE US CAPITOL, THE BUILDINGS WHERE ARE ARE NOT FAR APART AT ALL. THEY ARE ABOUT MAYBE A FIVE MINUTE WALK FROM WHERE I AM TO THE US CAPITOL. SO A SIGNIFICANT PLACE IN HISTORY. OF COURSE, GIVEN THE VICINITY TO WHERE WE ARE. THANK YOU, KATHERINE. >> SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT QUITE A BIT THIS AFTERNOON. DONALD TRUMP BROUGHT BACK TO WASHINGTON TODAY TO FACE THESE CHARGES NOT FAR FROM THE CAPITOL, WHERE THE COUNTRY AND THE WORLD WITNESSED WHAT PLAYED OUT ON JANUARY 6TH. THIS IS REAGAN AIRPORT. YOU'RE LOOKING LIVE AT DONALD TRUMP SET TO BOARD HIS PLANE. WE ARE TOLD THERE IS A POSSIBILITY HE WILL MAKE SOME SORT OF STATEMENT HERE BEFORE HE BOARDS THAT PLANE TO HEAD BACK TO BEDMINSTER, LIKELY GAMING OUT WHETHER OR NOT TO SAY SOMETHING. AND LET'S JUST WATCH HERE FOR A MOMENT AS THIS PLAYS OUT. LET'S LISTEN. I'M NOT GOING TO LIVE IN HERE. OUR TEAM TELLING US THAT IS WALT NOT DONALD TRUMP'S AIDE HOLDING THE UMBRELLA FOR THE PRESIDENT, WALT NAUTA, OBVIOUSLY A KEY FIGURE IN THE CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS CASE IN MAR A LAGO, CHARGED IN THAT CASE, AN ADDITIONAL CHARGE JUST IN RECENT DAYS WITH THAT SUPERSEDING INDICTMENT. AND JACK SMITH ALLEGING THAT WALT NOT.A HOLDING THE UMBRELLA, MADE THAT SECRET TRIP TO MAR A LAGO. GOING INTO DETAIL IN THAT INDICTMENT. AND YET ANOTHER CASE THAT THAT WALT NADA AND THE MANAGER THERE AT MAR A LAGO WALKED DOWN THE TUNNEL WITH A FLASHLIGHT TO TRY TO FIND THE SURVEILLANCE CAMERA THAT WAS TRAINED ON THE STORAGE ROOM, ALLEGEDLY THAT HAD BOXES OF CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS ASKING EMPLOYEE NUMBER. FOUR TO DELETE THE SERVER. HERE WE SEE THE FORMER PRESIDENT, DONALD TRUMP, NOW RUNNING FOR THE PRESIDENCY. AGAIN, APPROACHING THE CAMERAS. AND LET'S LISTEN. >> WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THIS IS A VERY SAD DAY FOR AMERICA AND IT WAS ALSO VERY SAD DRIVING THROUGH WASHINGTON, D.C. AND SEEING THE FILTH AND THE DECAY AND ALL OF THE BROKEN BUILDINGS AND WALLS AND THE GRAFFITI. THIS IS NOT AT THE PLACE THAT I LEFT. IT'S A VERY SAD THING TO SEE IT WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT'S HAPPENING. THIS IS A PERSECUTION OF A POLITICAL OPPONENT. THIS WAS NEVER SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN IN AMERICA, FOR THIS IS THE PERSECUTION OF THE PERSON THAT'S LEADING BY VERY, VERY SUBSTANTIAL NUMBERS IN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY. AND LEADING BIDEN BY A LOT. SO IF YOU CAN'T BEAT HIM, YOU PERSIST . SHOOT HIM OR YOU PROSECUTE HIM. WE CAN'T LET THIS HAPPEN IN AMERICA. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THESE ELECT DO YOU WANT THESE TRIALS TO HAPPEN BEFORE THE 2024 ELECTION? >> ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS FOR DONALD TRUMP AS HE BOARDS THE PLANE. AND WE HEARD HIM THERE MOMENTS AGO. THAT IS VERY RARE FOR DONALD TRUMP, FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE ASTUTE VIEWERS AT HOME AND SO MANY OF YOU ARE WITH US EVERY STEP OF THE WAY HERE, FOR THOSE OF US WHO HAVE COVERED HIM, KNOW THAT HE OFTEN TAKES EXTRA QUESTIONS. IT'S SOMETHING THAT SOMETIMES HE CAN'T HELP HIMSELF. BUT TO TURN BACK AROUND. BUT THAT MIGHT BE A SIGNAL IN THE FORMER PRESIDENT, KNOWING THE WEIGHT OF THIS DAY AND MAKING A STATEMENT AND NOT TAKING THE BAIT ON ANY OF THOSE QUESTIONS SHOUTED HIS WAY. BUT YOU HEARD DONALD TRUMP SAY THIS IS A THE PERSECUTION OF A POLITICAL OPPONENT. HE TALKED ABOUT THE DECAY HE WITNESSED IN HIS SHORT TRIP HERE TO WASHINGTON AS A SWIPE. OBVIOUSLY AT THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION. HE POINTED OUT THAT HE'S LEADING SIGNIFICANT HE USED HIS OWN ADJECTIVE ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, WHICH IS TRUE. HE IS LEADING RON DESANTIS, THE CLOSEST OPPONENT FOR THE REPUBLICAN NOMINATION, BY ABOUT 37, 38 POINTS IN THE LATEST POLLING. HE SAID HE'S LEADING. HE INSINUATED THAT HE'S LEADING JOE BIDEN SIGNIFICANTLY AS WELL, ALTHOUGH WE KNOW THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE CASE. THEY ARE EVEN ACTUALLY IN THE BIGGEST POLL TO BE RELEASED THIS WEEK. THE NEW YORK TIMES SIENA POLL, IT'S 4343 WITH A NUMBER OF PEOPLE STILL UNDECIDED, UNWILLING TO SAY THAT THEY'RE GOING TO VOTE FOR EITHER ONE OF THESE CANDIDATES IN A NUMBER OF OTHER POLLS DOES SHOW A MUCH CLOSER RACE BETWEEN DONALD TRUMP AND JOE BIDEN AND JOHN KARL. THESE ARE THE TALKING POINTS THAT WE HAVE HEARD, NOT A NOT A TERRIBLE SURPRISE. I THOUGHT WHAT WAS TELLING, THOUGH, WAS HOW BRIEF THIS WAS AND THAT HE DIDN'T TAKE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS . >> AND TO SEE WALT NOT HOLDING THE UMBRELLA FOR HIM AS HE GOT OUT OF THAT LIMOUSINE, I MEAN, WALT NOT A HIS PERSONAL ASSISTANT, BUT ONE OF HIS MOST LOYAL AIDES, IS NOW HIMSELF, FACING LEGAL JEOPARDY AND THE REAL POSSIBILITY OF YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS IN PRISON AND STILL THERE BY HIS SIDE. BUT, DAVID, HE CLEARLY WAS GOING TO MAKE HIS POINT. I'M BEING PERSECUTED BECAUSE I'M RUNNING AGAINST JOE BIDEN. I'M BEING PERSECUTED BECAUSE I'M WINNING. HE'S NOT WINNING AGAINST JOE BIDEN. THAT'S A VERY CLOSE RACE. IF IT COMES TO PASS. BUT HE WANTS TO PLAY THE VICTIM AND HE WANTS TO TELL HIS SUPPORTERS THAT THEY'RE COMING AFTER ME BECAUSE THEY REALLY WANT TO COME AFTER YOU. AND IN FACT, IN RECENT DAYS ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL, HE SAID, I'M INDICTED FOR YOU. THAT'S EXACTLY HE'S EXPLICIT ABOUT IT. AND HE'S ALSO EXPLICIT IN SAYING THAT THIS IS HIS RETRIBUTION CAMPAIGN. HE IS GOING TO CAMPAIGN TO HAVE TO DESTROY HIS ENEMIES. THESE ARE THE WORDS HE USES. AND HIS ENEMIES. HE'S NOT TALKING SIMPLY ABOUT DEMOCRATS. HE'S TALKING ABOUT ABOUT HIS ENEMIES. HE SEES IT IN THE FBI, AT THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, AS HIS ENEMIES IN THE SPECIAL COUNSEL'S OFFICE. >> PIERRE THOMAS, WE DID NOT HEAR FROM JACK SMITH TODAY. THAT WAS NOT EXPECTED. AND IN FACT, IT COULD BE MONTHS BEFORE WE HEAR FROM JACK SMITH AGAIN, IF AT ALL. >> I'VE BEEN TOLD BY HIS PEOPLE HE SPOKE WHEN HE HAD TO. YOU WON'T HEAR HIM UNTIL THEY SPEAK IN COURT. AND, DAVID, I THINK THE REALITY TODAY, NOTWITHSTANDING THE POLITICS THAT WE NOW SEE A CRIMINAL CASE REGARDING WHETHER DONALD TRUMP TRIED TO STEAL AN ELECTION, NOW FULLY ENJOINED PIERRE THOMAS WITH US AS WELL. >> ONE LAST THOUGHT HERE FROM MARY BRUCE, OUR CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT. ANYTHING FROM THIS WHITE HOUSE? >> STILL NOTHING FROM THIS WHITE HOUSE. AND I DON'T THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SEE ANYTHING FROM THIS WHITE HOUSE. BUT AS IF THERE WAS ANY DOUBT THERE, IT IS CLEAR DONALD TRUMP IS LEANING HARD INTO THIS. THIS IS WHAT IS GOING TO DOMINATE THE NEXT YEAR AND A HALF, BOTH CLEARLY IN THE COURT SYSTEM AND ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL. YOU HEARD DONALD TRUMP THERE ARGUING THAT WHAT PRESIDENT BIDEN IS DOING IS IN HIS WORDS, SAYING IF YOU CAN'T BEAT HIM, YOU PERSECUTE HIM. THAT IS GOING TO BE THE ARGUMENT GOING FORWARD. AND IT'S NOT JUST THAT THE LEGAL DEFENSE IS GOING TO DOMINATE TRUMP'S CAMPAIGN. I THINK THE QUESTION GOING FORWARD IS WHETHER HIS SUPPORTERS TIRE OF THAT, WHETHER AT SOME POINT THERE IS THAT FATIGUE. WE HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING. WILL VOTERS START TO SAY, I WANT TO HEAR A LITTLE BIT LESS ABOUT DONALD TRUMP AND A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO FOR ME, THAT IS WHAT JOE BIDEN IS HOPING THAT THEY WILL START TO WONDER WHAT CAN THE NEXT PRESIDENT DO TO MAKE THEIR LIFE BETTER AND JOE BIDEN IS HOPING THAT THAT LEAVES ROOM FOR HIM TO BE ABLE TO SHOW HOW HE CAN GOVERN. >> AND THE FIRST AND IT'S A MAJOR ONE. THE FIRST MAJOR LEGAL ARGUMENT WE SAW PLAY OUT IN THIS HEARING TODAY, AND THAT'S OVER THE TIMELINE. DAN, YOU HEARD THE JACK SMITH'S TEAM ASKING FOR A SPEEDY TRIAL, MAKING THEIR CASE TO THE MAGISTRATE. THE DEFENSE TEAM JUMPING IN, REFUTING THAT REQUEST, SAYING, LOOK, THE SPECIAL COUNSEL'S HAD BLANK AMOUNT OF TIME TO GET READY. THEY'VE HAD A NUMBER OF AGENTS HELPING THEM INVESTIGATE. WE NEED A SIMILAR AMOUNT OF TIME TO HELP DEFEND OUR CANDIDATE. AND IT'S GOING TO BE THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT DECISION THAT THIS JUDGE HAS TO MAKE AT THE OUTSET, WHICH IS HOW MUCH IS SHE GOING TO PUSH TO MOVE THIS CASE FORWARD QUICKLY, AS THE PROSECUTION WANTS, VERSUS ALLOWING FOR MORE DELAY? >> BUT ONE MORE BIG PICTURE THOUGHT HERE. IT IS CLEAR THAT THE APPOINTMENT OF A SPECIAL COUNSEL DIDN'T WORK. AND WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS THE POINT OF IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A SENSE THAT SOMEONE IS COMING IN FROM THE OUTSIDE SO THAT THERE ISN'T A PERCEPTION IN OF THE BIDEN JUSTICE DEPARTMENT PROSECUTING. THAT'S WHY YOU APPOINT A SPECIAL COUNSEL. AND IT IS CLEAR NOT JUST FROM DONALD TRUMP'S OWN WORDS, THAT WE JUST HEARD, BUT MANY OF HIS SUPPORTERS AND MANY REPUBLICANS AND MANY OTHERS ACROSS THE COUNTRY WHO FEEL THAT IT'S STILL THE BIDEN JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WHO'S PROSECUTING HERE. YES. THE SPECIAL COUNSEL ULTIMATELY REPORTS TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, BUT YOU'RE HOPING THAT THE APPOINTMENT OF A SPECIAL COUNSEL ALLOWS PEOPLE THE ASSURANCE THAT IT'S SOMEONE FROM THE OUTSIDE. AND I THINK THAT'S BEEN LOST HERE IN THE DISCUSSION OF THIS. PEOPLE FORGOT THAT. OH, AND BY THE WAY, THERE'S ALSO A SPECIAL COUNSEL STILL INVESTIGATING PRESIDENT BIDEN IN CONNECTION WITH THE DOCUMENTS CASE. THAT WAS ALSO APPOINTED. AND I WILL TELL YOU ONE MORE THING. I THINK THAT IF THE DOCUMENTS CASE HAD NOT HAPPENED AND THE CASE WE'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW NEVER WOULD HAVE HAPPENED EITHER, BECAUSE IT SURE SEEMED LIKE MERRICK GARLAND WAS READY TO MOVE ON FROM DONALD TRUMP AND JANUARY SIXTH AND THE OVERTURNING OF THE ELECTION. THEN THE DOCUMENTS CASE HAPPENS . HE APPOINTS A SPECIAL COUNSEL AND THE MINUTE YOU APPOINT A SPECIAL COUNSEL, THE SPECIAL COUNSEL GETS TO DECIDE WHERE DO YOU GO WITH THE CASE? NOT WHAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND I THINK WHAT YOU'VE SEEN HERE IS THE SPECIAL COUNSEL NOW MOVING FORWARD WITH A CASE THAT, YOU KNOW, AND THAT I THINK THAT MERRICK GARLAND WAS RELUCTANT TO BRING. AND IT IS NOW BEEN BROUGHT AND IT HAS AN ENORMOUS IMPACT ON THE COUNTRY. >> THERE'S NO QUESTION HISTORY MADE TODAY IN WASHINGTON. DAN, THANK YOU. MARY BRUCE, JOHN KARL, PIERRE THOMAS AND I KNOW MARTHA RADDATZ, RICK KLEIN WITH US IN WASHINGTON, PRESIDENT DON TRUMP, THE FORMER PRESIDENT RETURNING TO WASHINGTON TODAY TO FACE FOUR COUNTS IN THIS FEDERAL CRIMINAL INDICTMENT THAT ALLEGES THAT HE TRIED TO OVERTURN THE 2020 ELECTION. JACK SMITH, THE SPECIAL COUNSEL, ALLEGING THAT DONALD TRUMP KNEW HE LOST THAT ELECTION BUT PROCEEDED TO WORK WITH COCONSPIRATORS ANYWAY TO TRY TO HOLD ON TO THE WHITE HOUSE, HOLD ON TO POWER. AND WHAT WE HAVE NOW SEEN IS THAT THIS ESSENTIALLY THE TRAIN HAS LEFT THE STATION HERE. WE ARE LOOKING AT A REPUBLICAN DEBATE IN JUST A COUPLE OF WEEKS. AND THE FIRST HEARING IN THIS CASE TO HAPPEN JUST DAYS AFTER THAT REPUBLICAN DEBATE, WHICH SETS UP ALL SORTS OF POTENTIAL SCENARIO AS WE COVER NOT ONLY THE RACE FOR PRESIDENT, BUT ALSO THESE FEDERAL CRIMINAL CASES NOW UNDERWAY AND HOW THE TWO MIGHT INTERSECT. BUT THEY WILL INTERSECT, BUT HOW THEY INTERSECT. WE WAIT TO SEE AND WE'LL REPORT THAT OUT FAIRLY AND CAREFULLY BECAUSE I HAVE THIS TEAM RIGHT HERE. OUR COVERAGE CONTINUES ON ABC NEWS LIVE ABCNEWS.COM. AND OF COURSE I'LL BE BACK A SHORT TIME FROM NOW WITH WORLD NEWS TONIGHT FOR MANY OF YOU HERE IN THE EAST, YOUR LOCAL NEWS TEAM IS STANDING BY. I'M DAVID MUIR. I'LL SEE YOU AT 630. >> THIS HAS BEEN A SPECIAL

Channel: Denver7

Views: 314,092

Keywords: president trump charged, president trump charged on 4 felony counts in attempt to overturn the 2020 election, trump charged

Id: DDoujVoS16U

Length: 131min 59sec (7919 seconds)

Published: Thu Aug 03 2023