Can you Worship both Norse and Irish Gods Jon O'Sullivan Irish Pagan School

and a pagan person worshiped the north Pantheon and the Irish Pantheon at the same time well dag de Aus falure hi hello and welcome John O Sullivan from the Irish Pagan school here and that is a c or question that we had over on the IPS Tik Tok uh but I thought though I answered it there I might actually come here and just take a bit more time to expand on it a little bit further because it's quite common actually that people would have experiences with more than one Pantheon or have cross Pantheon relationships in their spiritual processes so um to dive in with the traditional answer NE answer not hard to say yes it's 100% possible to have a spiritual path that includes more than one Pantheon in fact anyone who identifies as Pagan because Pagan is not one particular form of religion it's an umbrella term that kind of defines a number of different Pathways of spirituality but those defined as Pagan are share four common traits one of which is a belief in polytheism so if you don't believe in polytheism you're not practicing a pagan pass but if you do believe in polytheism polytheism is literally the belief in multiple deities and so if you practicing polytheism with a belief in multiple deities but you don't acknowledge the existence of other cultures multiple deities then you're doing it wrong so okay in my opinion you're doing it wrong um because because one of the core fundamental practices is that there is multiple deities and those deities kind of grow and expand within the cultures in which they come from and this is where we get a lot of confusion because the from our stats from our perspective here at the Irish Pagan School a deity cannot really be devoid from the culture in which it is expressed and though there are similarities between certain similar cultures who have certain similar deities doesn't mean they're the same deity and part of the problem that we have seen in the past um as far back as Julius Caesar's domination of Europe is this need to force all deities or all expressions of divinity to conform to one ideal um Julius Caesar literally wrote about it himself he referred to this concept of a dispar d i p a t or which is a sky father and according to his religious expression his belief was that oh every kind of culture had a sky father and all you had to do really was find out who that is in the other cultures and then you can map how that fits which is where we end up with such terrible kind of cross comparisons of the dagda being the same as Odin or the Daga being the same as Thor or Lou being the same as Apollo or like Odin being the same as Zeus you know they're fundamentally different expressions of deity based on the culture that they come from and so from from us here you can't really eradicate you it it it doesn't make sense to separate a deity from the culture in which they grow and they express now if you want to get into the psychology of stuff you can go back to archetypal ideals and through archetypal kind of understandings of the psychological construct of how our brains work we can then draw comparatives or we can say that this kind of fits this this kind of fits that but forcing that kind of archetypal basis to then Define the deity you're missing a trick as well because the the concept of archetype isn't to Define things to the lowest common denominator so they make sense it is to just allow you a framework for you to explore your own perceptions of things in a way that you can then delve deeper and build a better connection with and that is how we teach it at the school so to bring it back to our core topic and to avoid the psychology too much um yeah we were asked is it possible to have an expression of Faith or spirituality or spiritual pathway practices of paganism with more than one Pantheon in this instance Norse and Irish and do they conflict which was the extra part of that question so yeah absolutely really what it comes down to at the end of the day it is your own spiritual life and as much as I'm a person in the internet as much as I'm an educator in Irish mythology spirituality and culture it's not for me to tell you how you are going to practice your spirituality in your own way now I will go one step further and say it's also not for you to then Define The Core Concepts of a deity or Divinity that differ from the mythology or the culture in which they are expressed so anyone who's looking to explore spiritual pathway in multiple directions between different pantheons has pretty much doubled their workload because the only way to do it honorably and ethically is to embrace the culture embrace the mythology learn the stories get to know the information about that deity from its own cultural context and through then you then have a better idea of how to approach and how to interact with that expression of divinity so pretty much you've signed up for double the work one of the other things I have come across um and it it frustrates me to a certain degree is how certain individuals treat their spirituality or treat their divinities like they're a pick and mix like they get to have a bit of this a bit of that they'll take a bit of this and I'll take a bit of that all of which is this concept of take take take how the deity fulfills something for me and how I take from that relationship as opposed to build a partnership or build a connection which is what we teach at our school I've been around people who are sharing their alar space with me and again they're entitled to do it the way to going to do it but they are like I put this on this Altar for love and that's apod I put this on this Altar for you here and that's you know wisdom I put this on this place over here and that's for this and they're literally just putting coins in a machine and expecting blessings to come out instead of building an actual dialogue Building A Narrative of experience with an expression of divinity which allows for a deeper kind of understanding of what that deity is agenda is what their insights are what their perspectives are and how we then as individuals in our world can align that for ourselves with them and their cause but again you're going to do it your way but what I would say is you need to be cautious and careful because we have had people come to us in the school saying oh this has happened and this has gone wrong and I don't know why this is happening in my life and invariably we take them through the process asked a couple of questions well how do you express your spirituality when where what is your alter space like how are you kind of communicating with deity and it turns out that they have missed a step somewhere along the way and they're not engaging as honorably or ethically as they could or they're confusing or altering energies by just dumping it all into one place and expecting it to work because when we talk about altars for example an altar is a physical place where you go to engage in spiritual activity the altar needs to work for you but it also needs to work for the deities that you are communicating with and so it's important to make sure that you are clear on what energy you're directing into what relationship I joke about it like you know polytheism you may as well be engaging in polyamory because you have to engage in multiple different relationships at different times with the same level of respect honor communication and interaction if you're going to maintain that healthy level of connection with the expression of divinity you're looking to engage with so specifically down to the North and the Irish um there is no conflict really in the fundamentals of pursuing your relationship with those two pantheons Ireland itself like the first recorded in Invasion or arrival of Vikings into Ireland was in 800 Common Era so thousands of years ago we have records of Vikings coming into Ireland and they didn't just come to raid and then off they came and they stayed they used Ireland as a place to transport via whole different areas around Europe and beyond for their shipping and for their trade so much so that places like Dublin and Waterford Cork and limmerick all of these places are built on rivers and for the main reason and on the coast because it suited the Vikings they were Viking kingdoms initially they were Viking settlements and it didn't just arrive in 800 Common Era we have records of them all the way through for 500 plus years being in Ireland not just kind of coming and going but establishing being part of the the place and that's where we get to this concept of hiberno Norse because there was an interaction between the cultures to such a degree that there was blending cultural blending is going to happen it is normal it's natural when you have people different cultures sharing and engaging with open and openness and honesty and a respect for things now of course that doesn't mean there wasn't conflict they absolutely straight straight up was conflict we can look at that very clearly with the very famous battle of clarf just outside of Dublin in the 10 hundreds 10 1060 or 1070 and that's the one that ended the the dominance of Brian baru the very famous Irish King but it was a conflict involving Viking warriors so that didn't end Viking Ireland they then carried on they stayed and Vikings did actually trans like convert convert to Christianity because we know from the records that that's the rise of dominance of Christianity is very much core with in that medieval period although the first arrivals of Christianity can be traced back to 400 Common Era when we have places like Shel v hill or Gan Bara which are hermitages in remote places in Ireland so the expression of spiritual Pagan pathway involving both Norse and and Irish culture and Irish deities is completely normal makes a lot of sense um talking about inter integrated ancestry it's entirely possible that someone can trace their ancestry back to Scandinavia and to Ireland and that's where you're going to have those interactions about pursuing a relationship with deity but it is important to make sure that you're acknowledging the fact that you have to put the work in to acknowledge not just your the expressions of the deity as you currently understand them but understanding them deeper as they are known in their cultures in their Origins where they actually come from in the landscape that they come from or the mythology that they come from because that's the only way you'll be able to build a deeper connection now I have explored North pantheons myself and it was one thing that I was very confused about before I even knew the name Daga there was my awareness of his energy was around me but I was not pursuing a pagan spirituality I didn't Define myself as Pagan back and then I didn't even Define myself as Christian because I had fallen very much out of favor with the abuses performed by the Catholic Church on Ireland and I was like okay well I can understand some of the Core Concepts of like love one another don't be an treat people like how you'd want to be treated I'm down with that as part of a spiritual pathway but I've had gotten into place of like acknowledging that there multiple different Pathways I got copies of multiple different relig religious texts some of which I shouldn't have had a copy of but thank you very much for those who shared so I could actually expand my perceptions and expand what I understood of as spirituality and that's when I began to see that there was some other energy around me and I thought it was Odin I initially thought it was Odin there was this particular form to the but didn't the Odin didn't fit for me either especially when I went and read the mythology went and I I bought as many books as I could I went to the library I read much about it and the more I read about Odin the less and less I knew this energy around me was him like the the more I knew about Odin's mentality his approach to things the way he interacts I then knew that this energy was noden so there was something else involved and that's where it led to my belligerence about it and the D that had to borrow bothered the Morgan so the Morgan would get her priest to say his name out loud in front of me and which is a whole other story but in there knowing the name I then had something to identify the energy and that allowed me to then understand to begin the next phage which was learning everything I could from the culture from the mythology from the folklore about dagda and so that's what I'm talking about it is embracing that level of energy and effort and work to make sure that you're honoring that connection and that relationship I have since explored relationship and kind of question and interaction with the rest of the two of the Dan and I have unique experiences to me with other deities of the two the Danon but the one that I have the strongest connection with the one that I feel most in tune with is the dagda and that's why I work for him I am the dagda bir and it's how I defined my relationship with him no one turned around and said you're the dag the bird okay no one in this world turned around and said that but I was like exploring stories I was trying to figure out my relationship with him through the mechanism story cuz that's how I've always done us and then one day he's like well you're my bird and I'm like yeah yeah okay and then I had to make a website my partner was like you oh these stories are great you really should put them on a Blog somewhere and I was like I don't know how to do that five minutes later they're like there you go here you have a Blog now that's where you put your stories and it became dag thee bird.com and I have become comfortable referring to myself as a part because I am a Storyteller I share that information I share that story so that people can understand that di in the cultural context of his mythology and also in a modern context of someone who's living and practicing haen spirituality focused on a relationship with the Daga that is what I do that is how I do it now I've written stories about Odin I have had there's one particular story it's called the n wave where I was wondering how Odin and the Daga would interact and it was on my mind for a while so I did the thing that I do best which is sit down and figure it out in story and in the story I wrote about Odin coming into Ireland for the first time in meeting the Daga right there on the coast and it was entertaining for me to explore that based on what I knew about both of those deities and how they would interact so if you're interested you can find that on D of our if you want to read that story but to bring it back to this particular person the question is about how a relationship can work with cross Pantheon processes and whether there would be conflict so it does come down to knowing the information to help you define and understand what you mean by conflict and whether or not there is some underlying shifts in energy that are required to maintain space for those relationships independent of each other I'm not going to say that you can't put you know Freya and you know Bridget stuff on the same alar space I'm not going to say you can't put dag and Odin in the same space I'm not going to tell you to avoid putting Loki and Mon and mcleer in the same place I think that'd be hilarious and part of me is actually I I sent that in the Tik Tock video when I responded and since then part of my brain is like mana and Loki what would that conversation be like and the only way I know I'm going to be able to deal with that is to write the story so we'll see if that that occurs in the future CU it's still ruminating but it is about understanding the nature of divinity as expressed within the culture of the cultural context and I know I'm saying the same thing but it is crucially important to do that so that you can then honorably and honestly approach that connection of relationship for yourself and for the deity because if you treat a deity like a pick and mix put in bless put in prayers and get out offering or get a blessings it might work but you're doing yourself a disservice by not exploring the possibility of deeper connection deeper understanding and that's all we teach at the Irish Pagan school all of our classes about here's the information here's the and we have been accused of being academic but part of it is to make sure you have the grounding in the Academia you have the grounding in the original lore in the the core stories that Define these deities within the culture that they come from that means that as you grow in your relationship as you begin to kind of develop things for yourself as you begin to explore your relationship in the Irish other world in guided meditation in offerings practices alter work whatever it actually is you're doing it with the right framework you're doing it with the right structures so that you're not going to be confused you're not going to be misconstrued you're not going to be led astray by something pretending to be deity when it's not because that can happen or you know we get so caught up in our own imagination or creativity in our own kind of Concepts we're not able to clearly discern when it's our own make believe and when it's actually our unconscious mind speaking to through our subconscious into our mindscape from deity and those things are very markedly different experiences so it's a great question it really is I answered it in brief over in the Tik Tok again if you're not over in Tik Tok all you got to do is go over there and search Irish Pagan school you'll see this mug and I try and respond to questions over there as best I can and here I still like to turn up and take that bit more time you know point at the resources show you where the information is and get into things a little bit deeper a little bit chunkier so if you haven't subscribed to the Tik Tok do it if you haven't subscribed here and you're inclined to carry on please feel free to do so if you're looking to know more go to the AR pag and school and even if you can't afford a class with us we have over years worth of free resources available for you Irish Pagan do schoolfree boom years for worth of free resources from classes meditations to like book recommendations something you could tip away at to explore your own relationship it's there you want to know about ancestry all you go to do is go to Irish Pagan do school/ roots and there's a workbook there for filling in and exploring your connection and exploring the concept of how your ancestry comes and should inform your relationship with yourself and with your spirituality if you want to get into some kind of practical process you want to actually take it deeper in what is paganism fundamentals Irish pan. school3 days and you can get three days worth of information emailed directly to you something to do each day to understand and build fundamental foundational stuff around your spirituality all of this we want to we do to try and avoid misinformation to try and help people establish a protocol of self exploration self-discovery for their spirituality so that they can do it from an educated point of view so that they can do it from an honest deep point of view and avoid casual shallow interactions with themsel or with deity anyway thank you very much for asking the question I do appreciate it hopefully some of this has been interesting or curiously inspiring for you if you have any questions throw them in the comments I'm always happy to come back and do my best to answer them if you aren't subscribed do make sure you follow up and connect with the information we we do this all the time because it's it is a joy but it's also part of the calling to get real information out there it's protocol it's mandatory 101 stuff according to the God that I work for and the God my partner works for to so thank you very much for being here look after yourself and until the next time SL goodbye

Channel: The Irish Pagan School

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Keywords: irish pagan school, druid, celtic pagan, irish pagan, paganism, witchcraft, pagan religion, tuatha de danann, celts in ireland, druid religion, druid magic, irish religion, modern druids, lora o'brien, jon o'sullivan, morrigan, dagda, irish language pronunciation, druidry, the morrigan goddess, gods and goddesses, celtic mythology, irish folklore, fairy faith, pagan priesthood, irish witchcraft, sidhe, morrigan irish, irish author, Norse, Irish, Pantheon, Odin, Dagda, Norse mythology

Id: 540jFf3cj5g

Length: 21min 1sec (1261 seconds)

Published: Fri May 17 2024