Can the Mind Heal the Body? | Episode 1401 | Closer To Truth

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THE MIND AFFECTS THE BODY. STRESS TRIGGERS SICKNESS, SHORTENS LIFE. TRANQUILITY PROMOTES WELLNESS, LENGTHENS LIFE. HOW WE THINK CHANGES HOW WE FEEL. PSYCHOSOMATIC MEDICINE IS MODERN MEDICINE. "PSYCHOSOMATIC ILLNESS" DOES NOT MEAN "IMAGINARY ILLNESS," YET THE FIELD IS FLUSH WITH CHARLATANS, CRACKPOTS, BUFFOONS WHO CAN TAKE YOUR MONEY AND HARM YOUR HEALTH. WHAT WORKS AND WHAT DOESN'T? WHAT'S SCIENCE, AND WHAT'S NOT? THE MIND REALLY DOES AFFECT THE BODY, BUT HOW? HOW DOES IT WORK? WHAT ARE THE MECHANISMS? NEURO-CHEMICALS, HORMONES, GENERATED BY THE BRAIN. BUT SOME CLAIM SOMETHING MORE, SOMETHING SPECIAL ABOUT CONSCIOUSNESS. HOW CAN THE MIND HEAL THE BODY? I'M ROBERT LAWRENCE KUHN, AND CLOSER TO TRUTH IS MY JOURNEY TO FIND OUT. ABOUT ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE, I'M SOMETHING OF A SKEPTIC. SO MANY CLAIMS, SO LITTLE PROOF. FOR GOOD REASONS, MODERN MEDICAL SCIENCE CONSIDERS ONLY THE PHYSICAL BODY AND BRAIN IN EXPLAINING HOW MENTAL STATES AFFECT SICKNESS AND WELLNESS. THERE'S AN ALTERNATIVE VIEW: CONSCIOUSNESS IS DEEPLY FUNDAMENTAL, AND IT DIRECTLY AFFECTS OUR BODY. I AM INVITED TO A SYMPOSIUM, SAGES & SCIENTISTS, FEATURING THOSE WHO PROPOUND THE PRIMACY OF CONSCIOUSNESS. IT'S A COLORFUL GROUP, BELIEVERS ALL, INCLUDING SERIOUS SCIENTISTS. "GIVE THEM A CHANCE," I THINK TO MYSELF. "MAYBE I'LL LEARN SOMETHING." I BEGIN WITH THE FOUNDER AND GUIDING LIGHT OF THE SYMPOSIUM, MY HOST, THE INDIAN-AMERICAN HOLISTIC PHYSICIAN DEEPAK CHOPRA. DEEPAK, IT'S COMMON KNOWLEDGE IN MEDICINE THAT THE MIND HAS A VERY STRONG INTERACTION WITH THE IMMUNE SYSTEM, WITH OUR SENSE OF WELL-BEING, AND OVER TIME THIS HAS BECOME CORE WESTERN MEDICINE. HOW DO YOU REFLECT ON-- THIS IS SOMETHING THAT YOU'VE WORKED ON-- HOW THE MIND CAN ACTUALLY HEAL AND HELP THE BODY? DEEPAK CHOPRA: FIRST OF ALL, ROBERT, IN THE DEEPER DOMAINS OF CONSCIOUSNESS, MIND AND BODY ARE THE SAME THING. MIND IS THE SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCE OF CONSCIOUSNESS, AND THE BODY'S THE OBJECTIVE EXPERIENCE OF CONSCIOUSNESS. AND I EXPERIENCE THEM BOTH IN CONSCIOUSNESS. IN THE WESTERN SCIENTIFIC SYSTEMS OF THOUGHT, THERE'S BEEN A SEPARATION BETWEEN THE MIND AND THE BODY: THE CLASSIC CARTESIAN DUALISM. HOWEVER, IF YOU TALK TO SCIENTISTS THESE DAYS, THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN THE CLASSIC CARTESIAN DUALISM. SO THE MATERIALISTS SAID THERE'S ONLY MATTER. AND THE OTHER PEOPLE SAY THERE'S ONLY MIND. WELL, I'M SAYING THERE'S NEITHER, OKAY? OKAY. NOW IF YOU LOOK AT THE WORD "HEALING," IT'S A VERY INTERESTING WORD ETYMOLOGICALLY. HEALING, HEALTH, WHOLENESS. SO IN MY VIEW, IT'S HOW YOU DEFINE HEALING. HEALING IS THE RETURN OF THE MEMORY OF WHOLENESS. IT'S A STATE OF PRIMORDIAL BEING. IN THAT STATE OF PRIMORDIAL BEING, THERE'S SELF-REPAIR, SELF-ORGANIZATION, SELF-EVOLUTION-- ALL THE ATTRIBUTES OF CONSCIOUSNESS. WE'VE KNOWN FOR 30 YEARS THAT WHEN PEOPLE ARE STRESSED THEY HAVE HIGH CORTISOL LEVELS, THEY HAVE HIGH ADRENALINE, AND THEIR PLATELETS GET STICKY, AND THEY GIVE YOU A HEART ATTACK BECAUSE THEY CLOG. SO YOU LOOK AT IT FROM A CONSCIOUSNESS PERSPECTIVE, HEALING IS THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL EXPERIENCE. UNLESS YOU'RE BORN WITH A CONGENITAL DEFECT OR SOMETHING, YOU'RE ALREADY HEALED. YOU'RE WHOLE. YOU HAVE NOT STARTED THE MISTAKE OF THE INTELLECT THAT SEPARATES YOUR MIND FROM THE BODY. IT'S A STATE OF HOMEOSTASIS. HOMEOSTASIS IS A STATE OF DYNAMIC NON-CHANGE IN THE MIDST OF CHANGE. AND IT'S A FUNDAMENTAL STATE. SO YES, IT'S NOT THAT THE MIND HEALS THE BODY. WHEN YOU GET OUT OF THE WAY OF BOTH THE MIND AND THE BODY, THEY BOTH HEAL THEMSELVES. ROBERT: SO HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN? DEEPAK: IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT IT IN A VERY SIMPLE LEVEL, WHEN YOUR MIND IS AGITATED, YOUR BODY'S AGITATED. BECAUSE THEY'RE BOTH THE SAME THING. OKAY, MENTAL ACTIVITY IS TURBULENT; YOUR BODY GETS TURBULENT. YOUR MENTAL ACTIVITY IS INFLAMED-- HOSTILITY, ANGER, GUILT, SHAME-- YOUR BODY GETS INFLAMED. OKAY, THAT'S ON ONE LEVEL. YOUR MENTAL ACTIVITY IS ONE OF PEACE, THEN THE BODY GETS QUIETENED BECAUSE THE MIND IS QUIETENED. OKAY, AND THEN THE SELF-REPAIR KIND OF MECHANISMS COME IN. LOVE--NOT LOVE AS A MERE EMOTION, BUT LOVE AS THE FUNDAMENTAL TRUTH THAT THERE'S NO SEPARATION. WHEN YOU EXPERIENCE THAT, THEN AGAIN, SELF-REPAIR MECHANISMS KICK IN. I THINK WE HAVE TO REDEFINE WHAT HEALING MEANS. WE HAVE TO REDEFINE WHAT HEALTH MEANS. BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN BE PHYSICALLY HEALED AND STILL HAVE THE FEAR OF DEATH AND LIVE MISERABLY. RIGHT? IN FEAR, AGITATION. IS THAT HEALING? I DON'T THINK SO. YOU CAN BE PHYSICALLY HAVING A TERMINAL ILLNESS AND COME TO PEACE WITH YOUR MORTALITY BECAUSE YOU KNOW THERE'S AN ASPECT OF EXISTENCE THAT IS IMMORTAL. SCIENCE IS NEVER GOING TO GO AWAY. NOR IS THE YEARNING FOR MEANING, WHICH IS A VERY SPIRITUAL THING. NEITHER ARE GOING TO GO AWAY. AND SO, MIGHT AS WELL BRING THEM TOGETHER TO HEAL THE WORLD. ROBERT: DEEPAK'S VIEW IS THAT CONSCIOUSNESS IS REALITY, THE ONLY REALITY, AND THAT EVERYTHING ELSE, THE ENTIRE PHYSICAL WORLD, COMES FROM CONSCIOUSNESS. CONSCIOUSNESS AS REALITY HAS A RICH TRADITION IN EASTERN RELIGION AND PHILOSOPHY AND IN THE IDEALISM SCHOOL OF WESTERN PHILOSOPHY. I'M ATTRACTED BY CONSCIOUSNESS AS SPECIAL. AND I HAPPEN TO ENJOY SPARRING WITH DEEPAK. BUT I CANNOT DISMISS THE INDEPENDENT REALITY OF THE PHYSICAL. SO IF THE MIND AFFECTS THE BODY IN SOME PROFOUND WAY, HOW COULD IT WORK? BY WHAT MECHANISM CAN THE MIND AFFECT THE BODY? A COLLEAGUE OF DEEPAK'S CLAIMS TO KNOW. HE'S PROFESSOR OF NEUROLOGY AT HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL, AN EXPERT ON THE GENETIC CAUSES OF ALZHEIMER'S DISEASE, RUDY TANZI. RUDY TANZI: LET'S START WITH THE BASIC FACT THAT WITH YOUR MIND AND WHAT YOU ARE SIMPLY THINKING OR INTENDING OR IMAGINING, YOU CHANGE PHYSICALLY THE NEUROCHEMISTRY AND THE GENETIC ACTIVITY IN YOUR BRAIN. WE KNOW THAT'S THE CASE, RIGHT? YOU CAN SIMPLY SAY I WANT TO RECALL A SUNSET I SAW ON VACATION, AND YOUR VISUAL CORTEX IS ACTIVATED AS YOU SEE THAT SUNSET. THAT'S MIND OVER BRAIN. SO IF YOU CAN DO THAT, IF WE KNOW THE BRAIN IS THIS HIGHLY FLEXIBLE, PLASTIC ORGAN, REMODELING AND RESHAPING ITS NEURAL NETWORKS AND MEMORY MAPS ALL THE TIME, AND THEY RESHAPE SIMPLY WITH JUST WHAT YOU THINK AND WITH YOUR INTENTION. YOU HAVE AN INTENTION TO SAY I WANT TO BE A BETTER PERSON TODAY, YOUR NEUROCHEMISTRY AND GENETICS CHANGES IN RESPONSE TO YOUR MIND. THAT'S PSYCHOSOMATIC. IT'S NOT FOR DISEASE, THOUGH, IT'S FOR WHO I AM, HOW, HOW DO I BEHAVE IN THE EVERYDAY WORLD? NOW, CAN THAT THEN BE TRANSLATED TO DISEASE? THAT'S MORE DIFFICULT. DISEASE IS TOUGH. CAN YOU CURE YOUR ALZHEIMER'S DISEASE WITH YOUR MIND? WELL, YOU KNOW, STUDYING ALZHEIMER'S, I SEE IT AS A VERY FORMIDABLE FOE, AND I HAVE TO RESPECT IT AND SAY I DON'T THINK SO. BUT MAYBE SOMEDAY, WHEN WE'RE A BIT MORE EVOLVED, AND WE CAN MORE NATURALLY GUIDE, INSTRUCT, LEAD OUR NEUROCHEMISTRY AND GENETICS WITH OUR MIND, MAYBE SOMEDAY WE'LL PREVENT ALZHEIMER'S FROM OCCURRING IN THE FIRST PLACE WHEN WE LEARN MORE ABOUT HOW LIFESTYLE INTERACTS WITH PATHOLOGY AND THE DISEASE. WE'RE NOT THERE YET. ROBERT: WHEN YOU SAY THE MIND, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? BECAUSE MOST NEUROSCIENTISTS WOULD SAY THE MIND IS JUST THE SUM TOTAL OF THE OUTPUT OF THE BRAIN. SO YOU'RE REALLY SAYING THE SAME THING, THAT THE, THE BRAIN IS CHANGING THE BRAIN. RUDY: IT'S-- THE MIND AND THE BRAIN ARE A SELF-ORGANIZING SYSTEM, OR WHAT'S CALLED A RECURSIVE SYSTEM. IF THE BRAIN CREATES THE MIND, THE MIND MUST IN TURN CONTROL AND CREATE THE BRAIN. ANYTHING YOU THINK, AS A PERSON, ANY THOUGHT YOU CREATE IS GOING TO COME BACK TO THEN CONTROL YOU, OKAY. IT'S JUST, IT'S JUST A BASIC RULE OF BALANCE IN THE UNIVERSE. SO IF YOU APPLY THAT TO THE BRAIN AND MIND, ANYBODY WHO SAYS THE MIND IS JUST A PRODUCT OF THE BRAIN MUST, ACCORDING TO THE RULES OF SELF-ORGANIZATION, SAY THEN THE BRAIN IS THEN A PRODUCT OF THE MIND. IT'S, AND IT'S A LARGE FEEDBACK LOOP. ROBERT: BUT IN THAT LARGE FEEDBACK LOOP, YOU DON'T NEED ANYTHING OUTSIDE THE PHYSICALIST WORLD. YOU DON'T NEED ANY NON-PHYSICAL CONSCIOUSNESS OF ANY KIND. RUDY: ALL YOU NEED IS AN EXPLANATION OF WHAT THOSE SENSATIONS AND QUALIA ARE IN THE MIND THAT YOU CAN RECALL. WE HAVE A PRETTY GOOD IDEA IN NEUROSCIENCE OF HOW THE BRAIN RECALLS THOSE EXPERIENCES. WE DON'T KNOW HOW THOSE EXPERIENCES ARE CATALOGUED AND STORED IN FAT, PROTEIN AND WATER. WE JUST, WE JUST DON'T KNOW YET. SO I, I THINK THAT IN TERMS OF THE MIND, THESE ARE THE, THE PRODUCTS OF CONSCIOUSNESS, SO I LIKE TO THINK OF US AS AT THE VERY ROOTS OF OURSELVES, IN OUR SOUL, AS JUST PURE AWARENESS, ONE WITH GOD AS PURE AWARENESS. AND IF, IF ALL, IF EVERYTHING STARTS WITH JUST PURE AWARENESS, AWARENESS MUST BE AWARE OF SOMETHING, AND IT CAN ONLY BE AWARE OF ITSELF, THAT'S ALL THERE IS. I DON'T PERSONALLY BELIEVE IN A PHYSICAL WORLD. OKAY, AS I TAP A TABLE, FOR ME, BELIEVING THAT THERE ARE PHYSICAL, SOLID THINGS FLOATING AROUND IN SOME BIG MAGIC HOUSE CALLED THE UNIVERSE, AND THEN IT ENDS AND THEN THERE'S INFINITY AND NOTHINGNESS IS LIKE BELIEVING IN SANTA CLAUS. IT'S MUCH, MUCH EASIER TO FATHOM A UNIVERSE OF CONSCIOUSNESS, WHICH IS PRODUCED AS AWARENESS FINDS AN OBJECT IN ITSELF. SO AS AWARENESS BECOMES AWARE OF ITSELF, WHICH IS ALL IT CAN DO, THAT'S ALL THERE IS, CONSCIOUSNESS IS CREATED, WE USE OUR NERVOUS SYSTEMS, OUR BRAINS TO DO THAT. WE'RE A SELF-ORGANIZING SYSTEM OF CONSCIOUSNESS THAT'S BECOMING MORE AND MORE COMPLEX, MORE INTELLIGENCE, MORE DENSE THROUGH THE TIMELINE TO BECOME MORE AND MORE SOPHISTICATED VEHICLES OF DELIVERING AND INTERPRETING CONSCIOUSNESS AS AWARENESS BECOMES AWARE OF ITSELF. ROBERT: I LIKE SELF-ORGANIZING SYSTEMS-- A NEW PRINCIPLE TO DRIVE TOWARDS ORDER AND COMPLEXITY, YET WITHOUT DESIGN, INTENT OR CONTROL. BUT SELF-ORGANIZING SYSTEMS ARE ALSO USED TO EXPLAIN CONSCIOUSNESS IN PURELY PHYSICAL TERMS. I'M NOT CONVINCED-- INNER EXPERIENCE SEEMS SO RADICALLY DIFFERENT. BUT THEN TO LEAP TO PURE AWARENESS, DENYING THE PHYSICAL WORLD? FOR ME, FOR NOW, THAT'S A LEAP TOO FAR. I ADMIRE THE COURAGE, BUT NOT THE CONCLUSION. PERHAPS I SHOULD SET ASIDE THE PHILOSOPHY AND CONSIDER THE PERSONAL. MY 99-YEAR-OLD MOTHER JUST TOLD ME ON FACETIME THAT I LOOK OLD. ONE SCIENTIST AT THE SAGES & SCIENTISTS CONFERENCE STUDIES BIOLOGICAL AGING, HOW PSYCHOLOGICAL STRESS SPEEDS AGING-- ELISSA EPEL. ELISSA EPEL: THERE'S BEEN JUST SO MANY WHAT I'LL CALL INCREMENTAL STUDIES LOOKING AT HOW DIFFERENT WAYS STRESS, DEPRESSION, HOSTILITIES, KIND OF CHRONIC STATES THAT WE FIND OURSELVES IN ARE JUST SIMPLY BAD FOR DISEASE ONSET, WORSE PROGNOSIS, EARLIER MORTALITY. SO WE KNOW ALL THAT. SO, WHAT IS NEW HERE IS IT'S HELPFUL TO LOOK EARLY ON. EARLY IN LIFE, WHAT IS MOVING AROUND THE AGING CLOCK, HOW CAN WE FIND THE MALLEABLE FACTORS, THE MINDSETS, THE LIFESTYLE FACTORS, THE RIGHT TYPE OF PILLS OR NUTRITION, THAT WILL SLOW THE AGING CLOCK? I MEAN, WE ARE ALL SO PUMPED UP AND ACCELERATED IN OUR AGING, WITH ALL OF OUR EXCESSES OF FOOD AND STRESS, TOO, AND SO WE'RE ALL KIND OF INFLAMED AS WE AGE. WE GET THIS KIND OF WHAT WE CALL "INFLAMM-AGING," THESE HIGH LEVELS OF INFLAMM-AGING THAT ARE JUST CAUSING HAVOC ON OUR CELLS' ABILITY TO REPLICATE IN A NORMAL WAY AND STAY HEALTHY AND KEEP TISSUE HEALTHY. SO NOW THE FIELD IS ABLE TO LOOK INSIDE THE CELL AND JUST LOOK AT THE MACHINERY. HOW WELL IS IT FUNCTIONING? SO, WE'VE BEEN LOOKING AT TELOMERES, THESE CAPS AT THE ENDS OF CHROMOSOMES, AND AS WE... ROBERT: CHROMOSOME BEING THE GENETIC MATERIAL WITHIN THE CELL WITHIN WHICH THE DNA IS, UH, COILED. ELISSA: EXACTLY, AND SO PARTICULARLY IN THESE CELLS THAT NEED TO DIVIDE THROUGHOUT LIFE, LIKE THE IMMUNE CELLS, THE TELOMERES HAVE GOT TO STAY LONG FOR THAT CELL TO KEEP DIVIDING. ROBERT: THE ENDS OF THE CHROMOSOMES. ELISSA: SO WE'VE BEEN LOOKING AT STRESS AND TELOMERE LENGTH, FOR YEARS, AND THE STORY ADDS UP AND IS THAT ADVERSITY IN ALL FORMS-- DEPRESSION, PSYCHIATRIC DISORDERS, EARLY TRAUMA, STRESS WHEN YOU'RE IN THE WOMB-- ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE CHIPPING AWAY AT THAT CELL'S AGE. AND IT'S ALSO LIKELY THAT EARLY ON, WHEN WE'RE UNDER STRESS, IT'S ALSO SHAPING HOW OUR BRAIN WORKS, SO IT'S CAUSING US TO BE MORE STRESS REACTIVE IN THE WAY WE SEE THINGS THROUGHOUT LIFE. ROBERT: SO WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT EITHER DECREASE THE SIZE OF THE TELOMERE AND THEREFORE AGE US MORE QUICKLY, OR ALTERNATIVELY, WHAT ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT KEEP TELOMERES BIG AND FAT AND YOUNG THAT PROTECT US. ELISSA: SO ONE BIG PART OF THAT VARIANCE IS GENETICS. SO YOU TEND TO BE BORN WITH LONG TELOMERES OR SHORT... AND THEN A LOT OF THAT VARIANCE IS SHAPED THROUGHOUT LIFE, THROUGH OUR LIFESTYLE AND OUR EXPERIENCES. WE HAVE STARTED TO SEE EFFECTS THAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD YOU LIVE IN IS ASSOCIATED WITH THE LENGTH OF YOUR TELOMERES, HOW MUCH MONEY YOU MAKE, HOW MUCH EDUCATION YOU'VE ATTAINED EARLIER IN YOUR LIFE, DECADES EARLIER IN YOUR LIFE, IS ASSOCIATED WITH THE LENGTH OF YOUR TELOMERES. ROBERT: IN TERMS OF LENGTH OF TELOMERE AND THEREFORE THE AGING AND DISEASE PROCESS, IS STRESS, LIKE, THE MOST IMPORTANT VARIABLE THAT YOU'VE DISCOVERED? HOW ABOUT SOME OF THE OTHERS? ELISSA: THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN FOCUSED ON. THERE'S A LOT OF LIFESTYLE VARIABLES, SO VIGOROUS EXERCISE IS ASSOCIATED WITH LONGER TELOMERES. NUTRITION'S IMPORTANT. WE HAVEN'T QUITE FIGURED THAT OUT, BUT SO FAR IT LOOKS LIKE TAKING VITAMINS AND TAKING OMEGA SUPPLEMENTS OR HAVING A LOT OF OMEGA-3 FATTY ACIDS IN YOUR BLOOD. WE FOUND THAT PEOPLE WHO REPORT THAT THEY DO MORE MIND WANDERING, THEY KIND OF WISHING THEY WERE SOMEWHERE ELSE... NO GOOD. YOU KNOW, THAT'S ASSOCIATED WITH SHORTER TELOMERES INDEPENDENT OF ALL THE OTHER THINGS WE'VE KNOWN TO MEASURE AND STUDY LIKE STRESS. ROBERT: SO, BE HAPPY WHERE YOU ARE, IT IS WHAT IT IS, ENJOY THE MOMENT. ELISSA: ALMOST. I WOULD SAY BE CONTENT WHERE YOU ARE. BECAUSE I THINK HAPPINESS IS ANOTHER MYTH THAT WE TRY TO CHASE AND THINK THAT WE NEED TO BE HAPPY. THAT IS NOT TYPICALLY A STATE THAT LASTS. THOSE ARE STATES WE SHOULD NOTICE AND ENJOY BUT NOT CHASE. THAT, I THINK, KIND OF LEADS TO THE EXCESSES AND THE DISCONTENT AND THE MATERIALISM THAT WE'RE JUST SOAKED IN. ROBERT: IT'S COMMON SENSE. REDUCE STRESS. MAINTAIN GOOD ATTITUDES. IF MEDITATIVE PRACTICES CAN HELP, GOOD, GO FOR IT! BUT, TO ME, EVEN IF MEDITATION DOES REDUCE STRESS, ITS THERAPEUTIC SUCCESS IN MEDICINE DOES NOT JUSTIFY ITS MYSTICAL THEORIES OF CONSCIOUSNESS. MANY DISAGREE WITH ME, SEEING IN EASTERN WAYS DEEP INSIGHTS. I ASK A WESTERN-TRAINED SCIENTIST WHO FOUNDED THE ASIAN CONSCIOUSNESS FESTIVAL, GINO YU. GINO YU: THE QUESTION IS WHAT IS THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THIS MENTAL SPACE AND THE PHYSICAL BODY AND HOW DID THIS MENTAL SPACE COME ABOUT. AND HOW DID THE MIND COME ABOUT? ROBERT: OKAY. GINO: AND SO FOR THAT, WE'RE REALLY LOOKING AT, WE'VE BEEN LOOKING AT DEVELOPMENTAL PSYCHOLOGY AND CHILD DEVELOPMENT. SO ARGUABLY WHEN WE'RE BORN, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER WHEN YOU WERE A BABY, BUT ARGUABLY THERE IS NO IDEA OF MIND. IT'S FAIRLY EMPTY. A BLANK SLATE. BUT WHAT HAPPENS IS WE HAVE AWARENESS OF THE SURROUNDINGS, AND WE HAVE SENSATIONS IN THE PHYSIOLOGY, AND WHAT HAPPENS IS AS WE BECOME AWARE, WE NOTICE THAT CERTAIN THINGS HAPPEN IN A REPETITIVE WAY, SO THERE ARE CERTAIN SENSATIONS THAT I MAY FEEL, AND THEN I MIGHT FEEL SOME LIQUID ON MY LEG OR YOU KNOW, POO-POO, SO WEE-WEE, POO-POO, AND WE START BUILDING A MENTALLY CONSTRUCTED WORLDVIEW. AND SO FROM THIS, MOTHER, FATHER, CRIB, ROOM, LIGHT, ALL OF THESE, THESE THINGS HAPPEN, AND SO THESE THINGS BECOME CONCEPTS IN THE MIND, BUT THEY ACTUALLY BIND TO SENSATIONS AND PROCESSES IN THE PHYSIOLOGY. AND SO AS WE EXPERIENCE LIFE, WE BUILD A MENTALLY CONSTRUCTED WORLDVIEW WHICH THEN MOTIVATES US TO ACT AND BEHAVE. THE WORLD THEN INTERACTS WITH THAT BASED UPON OUR INTENTIONS. SOME THINGS MAY WORK, ACCIDENTS MAY HAPPEN, THINGS MAY HAPPEN WHICH THEN INFLUENCE THE, THE PHYSIOLOGY IN TERMS OF TRIGGERING THE AUTONOMIC NERVOUS SYSTEM OR GIVING ME A DOPAMINE FEELING OR, YOU KNOW, THIS KIND OF A THING, WHICH THEN REINFORCES A MENTALLY CONSTRUCTED WORLDVIEW, WHICH REINFORCES THE BEHAVIOR, WHICH REINFORCES THE HOMEOSTASIS OF THE PHYSIOLOGY. AND SO WE END UP IN THIS, THIS LOOP, ARGUABLY, OF BEHAVIOR. AND IF YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT THE MENTALLY CONSTRUCTED, REALLY, WORLDVIEW REALLY DOES, IS IT REGULATES THE ENERGY IN YOUR PHYSIOLOGY. YOUR BODY IS JUST A COLLECTION OF CELLS WORKING TOGETHER TO KEEP THE ORGANISM ALIVE. ROBERT: AND THIS MAKES EMINENT SENSE, I MEAN, THIS IS, BUT THIS IS STANDARD WESTERN UNDERSTANDING OF HOW THE BODY AND MIND WORK TOGETHER. GINO: BUT THE INTERESTING THING FROM THIS IS THE PHYSIOLOGY WANTS TO MAINTAIN HOMEOSTASIS. SO THE BODY NATURALLY WANTS TO HEAL ITSELF. THE CELLS INDEPENDENTLY WANT TO HEAL THEMSELVES. AND WE KNOW THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, IF I DO THIS TO YOU, YOUR EYES BLINK, YOUR BREATH HOLDS, YOU GET A DOSE OF ADRENALINE, I'VE TRIGGERED YOUR AUTONOMIC NERVOUS SYSTEM, AND SO WE KNOW WESTERN SCIENCE PERSPECTIVE. IF I SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, YOUR HOUSE JUST BURNED DOWN OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, ARGUABLY SIMILAR CHEMICALS ARE BEING RELEASED INTO YOUR BLOODSTREAM, AND FROM THE CELLS OF YOUR BODY'S PERSPECTIVE, THEY DON'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE. IF WE CAN LOOSEN THE MIND'S STRINGS, INFLUENCE ON THE PHYSIOLOGY, THE PHYSIOLOGY WILL NATURALLY MAINTAIN, MOVE TOWARDS A SENSE OF HOMEOSTASIS AND HEALTH. AND SO THE QUESTION IS WHAT IS IT THAT TAKES YOU OUT OF HEALTH, AND ARGUABLY IT'S, IT'S THIS CONDITIONED BEHAVIORS THAT USUALLY HAVE COME FROM TRAUMA OR ACTIONS OR A CONDITIONED WAY OF ACTING, WHICH DOESN'T SUPPORT THE PHYSIOLOGY OR ARGUABLY THIS NATURAL INTELLIGENCE OF THESE CELLS SPLITTING AND YOU KNOW, DNA STRANDS REPLICATING, REPLICATING. ROBERT: SO WHAT'S THE IMPLICATION? WHAT SHOULD I DO TO BE MORE HEALTHY IF THAT'S TRUE? GINO: WELL, SO THE, THE TRICK TO BE MORE HEALTHY IS TO LISTEN TO YOUR BODY. WHEN WE'RE A BABY, YOU KNOW, OUR ENERGY AND OUR ABILITY WAS FAIRLY LOW AND OUR KNOWLEDGE WAS FAIRLY LOW. BUT AS YOU GROW, YOU KNOW, YOU BECOME MORE CAPABLE, AND WHAT ENLIGHTENMENT IS, POTENTIALLY, IS THE ABILITY TO REACH ESCAPE VELOCITY. AND THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN DO THAT IS TO LIVE FROM PRESENCE. ROBERT: TO GINO, THE FEELINGS OF THE BODY, ITS ENERGY AND EQUILIBRIUM, ARE PROFOUND. OKAY, BUT WHAT FOLLOWS? HOW FAR CAN WE PUSH THE SCIENCE OF MIND-BODY INTERACTIONS? I ASK DR. MURALI DORAISWAMY, PROFESSOR OF PSYCHIATRY AND MEDICINE AT DUKE UNIVERSITY. MURALI DORAISWAMY: ABOUT 20, 25 YEARS AGO, PEOPLE THOUGHT THE MIND AND THE BODY WERE SEPARATE. AND THE CLASSIC EXPERIMENTS DONE BY HERBERT BENSON AT HARVARD WHO SHOWED THAT MEDITATION INDUCED A RELAXATION RESPONSE. THE RELAXATION RESPONSE THEN PRODUCED VERY PROFOUND PHYSIOLOGIC EFFECTS, NOT ONLY JUST ON YOUR HEART RATE, ON YOUR BREATHING, BUT ALSO ON YOUR IMMUNE SYSTEM, ON YOUR WHITE BLOOD CELLS. AND THEN NOW PEOPLE HAVE SHOWN IT AFFECTS MAYBE MORE THAN 5,000 DIFFERENT GENES. SO THE RELAXATION RESPONSE FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGES GENE EXPRESSION. SO THE WHOLE FIELD OF EPIGENETICS THAT'S BECOME, YOU KNOW, RISEN TO THE TOP OVER THE LAST TEN YEARS BASICALLY SAYS WHILE GENES SORT OF-- YOU MAY BE BORN WITH A CERTAIN SET OF GENETIC PREDISPOSITIONS, YOUR ENVIRONMENT CHANGES WHETHER THE GENES ARE EXPRESSED OR NOT. SO YOU CAN TURN ON OR TURN OFF CERTAIN GENES. AND I THINK THAT IS THE MAIN MECHANISM AT A FUNDAMENTAL CELLULAR LEVEL THROUGH WHICH HAVING A HEALTHY MIND REDUCES YOUR RISK FOR DISEASE. VIRTUALLY EVERY DISEASE THAT'S BEEN STUDIED, FROM HEART DISEASE TO RECOVERY FROM BREAST CANCER, IMPROVEMENT AND RECOVERY FROM MAJOR DEPRESSION, EVERY ONE OF THESE CONDITIONS, MIND-RELATED TECHNIQUES-- FOR EXAMPLE, MEDITATION, FOR EXAMPLE, YOGA, MINDFULNESS-BASED STRESS REDUCTION-- ALL OF THESE HAVE BEEN SHOWN TO DRAMATICALLY IMPROVE OUTCOMES. SO THE FUNDAMENTAL THEORY AT LEAST IS THAT ALL OF THESE SORT OF MINDFULNESS PRACTICES BOOSTS YOUR PARASYMPATHETIC SYSTEM. IT INDUCES THE RELAXATION RESPONSE. IT MIGHT REDUCE THE HYPERACTIVITY OF A SYSTEM CALLED THE HYPOTHALAMIC PITUITARY ADRENAL AXIS SO THERE IS LESS CORTISOL BEING RELEASED. AND THROUGH THESE CHEMICAL CHANGES, THEY AFFECT EVERY SYSTEM IN THE BODY. ROBERT: LET'S GO THROUGH THE MECHANISM OF HOW THAT OCCURS. MURALI: SO THERE ARE TWO SYSTEMS IN OUR BODY THAT ARE CRITICALLY RELATED TO STRESS. THE FIRST IS THE SYMPATHETIC NERVOUS SYSTEM, WHICH IS SORT OF THE FIGHT OR FLIGHT SYSTEM. YOU KNOW, YOU SEE A BEAR WHEN YOU WERE A CAVEMAN, OR A TIGER, AND YOUR BODY HAS TO GO ON FULL ALERT, AND IT DRAINS ALL THE RESOURCES FROM EVERYTHING ELSE JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU CAN OUTRUN THE BEAR OR THE TIGER, SO THAT'S... ROBERT: OR OUTRUN YOU. MURALI: EXACTLY. SO THAT'S THE SYMPATHETIC NERVOUS SYSTEM. NOW, WHAT HAPPENS IS IF YOU'RE REPEATEDLY EXPOSED TO STRESS-- SO CHRONIC STRESS, ESPECIALLY THE KIND OF STRESS THAT YOU'RE NOT ABLE TO OVERCOME-- THEN YOUR BODY'S BASELINE SYMPATHETIC NERVOUS SYSTEM GETS HYPER ACTIVATED. THE SAME THING HAPPENS TO YOUR CORTISOL HPA AXIS SYSTEM. SO AS YOUR STRESS RESPONSE INCREASES, THERE'S MORE CORTISOL BEING PRODUCED. AND AS THERE'S MORE CORTISOL BEING PRODUCED, CORTISOL ACTUALLY HAS A TOXIC EFFECT ON NERVE CELLS IN THE BRAIN. STUDIES IN ANIMALS, IN PRIMATE MODELS, HAVE SHOWN THAT CORTISOL CAN DAMAGE NERVE CELLS IN THE HIPPOCAMPUS AND THE AMYGDALA. THERE ARE OTHER STUDIES THAT SHOW URBAN DWELLERS WHO ARE EXPOSED TO STRESS HAVE EXAGGERATED RESPONSES IN THEIR AMYGDALA. SO IN DEPRESSION, FOR EXAMPLE, WHAT WE CLASSICALLY SEE IS THE AMYGDALA IS THE EMOTIONAL THERMOSTAT. IT'S ALMOST LIKE THE THERMOSTAT GETS PERMANENTLY TURNED ON AT A MUCH HIGHER LEVEL SO THAT YOU'RE KIND OF FLOODING YOUR BODY WITH ALL KINDS OF STRESS, SO IT'S A VICIOUS CYCLE. AND THAT'S THE VICIOUS CYCLE THAT I THINK IS DEADLY. ROBERT: AND THAT CAN BE CONTROLLED THROUGH SOME OF THESE TECHNIQUES. MURALI: CORRECT. STUDIES HAVE SHOWN THAT AFTER A 20-MINUTE BOUT OF EXERCISE YOUR CORTISOL LEVEL DROPS. AND WITH CONTINUED PRACTICE, YOU'RE SORT OF DOWN-REGULATING IT BACK TO A NORMAL STATE. SO YOUR RESPONSES TO STRESS BECOME MORE LIKE THAT OF A SURFER. YOU KNOW, YOU'RE SURFING THE OCEAN, YOU CAN EITHER DROWN UNDER THE WATER OR YOU CAN LEARN HOW TO RIDE THE WAVES. AND THAT'S WHAT A MEDITATOR DOES. ROBERT: AND THIS USED TO BE SOMETHING THAT WAS LIKE PERIPHERAL OR ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE, BUT NOW IT'S... MURALI: CENTRAL. IT'S PROBABLY MORE IMPORTANT THAN EVERY PILL WE HAVE. IF YOGA WERE AVAILABLE AS A MEDICINE, IT WOULD BE THE WORLD'S BEST-SELLING DRUG. ROBERT: THE MIND AFFECTS THE BODY-- I'VE NO DOUBT. OUR PHYSICAL HEALTH IS DETERMINED, AT LEAST IN PART, BY OUR MENTAL DISPOSITION. STRESS IN SHORT, SHARP BURSTS MAY ENHANCE PERFORMANCE, BUT CHRONIC STRESS IS ALWAYS BAD. SURE, BEWARE THE HYPESTERS AND HUCKSTERS PROMOTING THEIR CURES AND PANACEAS, BUT THERE IS NOW REAL SCIENCE SUPPORTING SOME ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE. WHAT'S THE ROLE OF CONSCIOUSNESS? FRANKLY, I DON'T THINK WE CAN KNOW. ON DEEP THEORIES OF CONSCIOUSNESS, PSYCHOSOMATIC MEDICINE IS NEUTRAL. IF CONSCIOUSNESS IS THE MERE OUTPUT OF BRAIN, HOW THE MIND AFFECTS THE BODY WOULDN'T NEGATE IT. IF CONSCIOUSNESS IS PRIMARY, HOW THE MIND AFFECTS THE BODY WOULDN'T PROVE IT. THIS WE DO KNOW: MENTAL HEALTH GENERATES PHYSICAL HEALTH, WHICH, FOR ALL OF US, SHOULD BE CLOSER TO TRUTH.
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Channel: Closer To Truth
Views: 42,314
Rating: 4.8629174 out of 5
Keywords: closer to truth, deepest questions, ideas of existence, life's big questions, pbs science show, robert lawrence kuhn, search for purpose, stem education channel, ultimate reality of the universe, vital ideas, Deepak Chopra, Rudolph Tanzi, Elissa Epel, Gino Yu, Murali Doraiswamy, mind heal the body, Psychosomatic, modern medicine, alternative medicine, wellness, medicine, healing, mental healing, closer to truth full episodes, closer to truth season 14, science of mind healing
Id: mqWsAvZ4Ers
Channel Id: undefined
Length: 26min 46sec (1606 seconds)
Published: Mon May 04 2020
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