Called to Communion with Doctor David Anders - April 9, 2021

i'm teresa tomeo and call to communion with dr david anders starts now what's stopping you from becoming a catholic why can't women become priests why do catholics worship mary why do i need to confess my sins to a priest where is purgatory in the bible i think the pope has too much authority what's stopping you you are called to communion with dr david anders on the ewtn global catholic radio network hey everybody welcome again to call to communion here on ewtn it's the program for our non-catholic brothers and sisters as the woman just said what is stopping you from becoming a catholic let's talk about it our phone number 833 288 ewtn that's 833-288-3986 if you're listening to us outside of north america please dial the u.s country code and then 205-271-2985 you can also text the letters ewtn to 5500 wait for our response and then text us your first name and your brief question message and data rates may apply those of you watching us on tv today you can participate as well our email address ctc at ewtn.com ctc.ewtn.com charles berry is our producer we also have uh jeff berson handling a social media ryan penny is uh doing the phone screening so he'll be the first voice that you hear when you call in at 833 288 ewtn i'm tom price along with dr david anders tom how are you today very well how are you my friend i'm doing great thanks got a couple of great emails to lead us off today uh this one is from brian brian says christians like to talk about worship of god and that quote we need a savior well dr anders i own several properties sports cars i spend about three to six months of the year outside of the u.s traveling the world what do i need jesus for well obviously not for property and sports cards you're sound like you're pretty good on that got that figured out so um you know ultimately the christian faith teaches that this this life is not the only life there is a next life and uh as we used to say in the children's bible song that i learned growing up you can't get there on roller skates that's right you can only get there by god's grace uh but but even now even in this life uh you know to it's okay to have a sports car and it's okay to own property and if you own property you have all the value that you can get out of property right but we're made for more than property and sports cars nothing wrong with property and sports cars but we're made for more than that we have in our hearts and i think you're conscious of this right uh a near infinite capacity uh to um uh to desire the transcendent you know i mean when they asked jp morgan how much money does it take to make a man happy he famously answered just a little bit more right and uh and that little bit more will never be satisfied by the mere material right so uh you know there are even in this world even in this world there are there are common goods that transcend mere particular goods of physical property things like justice love relationship beauty and uh and these these uh we're oriented toward these things but they're difficult to obtain it's difficult to find our union with the transcendent even in this life um because we are distracted by property and sports cars right and and things like that and so we need a teacher we need grace we need an inner renovation so that we can uh we can be joined to those transcendent goods which ultimately point us to the ultimate transcendent good which is the good of god himself and we also need to be inoculated against the possibility of the loss of property in sports cars right because tragedy is coming your way it's some time oh yeah i mean i hope not soon right it might be the loss of your property maybe it's not right maybe it's a loss of your health maybe it's the loss of a loved one maybe it's the loss of a relationship and uh we we need to have uh some way to make sense of the suffering that will inevitably come to us or to those around us uh to render that meaningful and these are things for which uh for which religion is appropriate and ultimately if we find that life of virtue and transcendence in this life through jesus christ in the church we can have assurance that we will enjoy those things uh much more in the next okay very good and uh brian thank you so much for your email here's an interesting one uh from cyrus uh your last show dr anders entered on somewhat of a cliffhanger for me could dr andrews please start where he left off and explain divorce porneia messiah and the context of what christ meant before converting to catholicism i had read that passage in matthew 19 and believed the divorce was allowed later i had an argument with my priest about it i did eventually accept the church's position before converting any uh clues that we can help out cyrus here yes thank you very much appreciate the question so for those of you who didn't hear that call let me back up a little bit uh in matthew 19 when jesus is asked by the pharisees if it's lawful for a man to divorce his wife he says no just no flat out no right and they say well then why does the mosaic law permit divorce because it did and christ says this is a concession to your weakness and hardness of heart but it wasn't like that from the beginning god made male and female said you know let the two become one flesh what god has joined together man can't separate so that's not that's not right and uh there are other places in the text where jesus teaches straight out you cannot divorce your wife period into paragraph without qualification now in this one passage he does include a qualification he says in case of and sometimes in your english bible it might be translated immorality some catholic bibles will say in case the marriage is invalid um and you might even find a translation that says in case of adultery although i haven't i haven't read one but that's usually the interpretation that protestants will put on it they'll say ah well in case of adultery christ permits divorce and that's never been the practice or understanding of the catholic church for 2000 years on the interpretation of this text and this was a major point of controversy in the reformation era that uh the catholic church has always maintained the discipline of christian marriage as indissoluble period of paragraph no exceptions and the protestant church beginning with martin luther and especially john calvin made allowances for divorce and remarriage christian divorce and remarriage in cases of adultery and the first christian divorce and remarriage situation in on record took place in calvin's geneva now that's telling right there i mean you got to pay attention if something doesn't happen for 1500 years and then it happens like that's the note that like there's introduced a change this is not the original discipline of the church yeah saint paul when he talks about this he he recognizes that spouses will sometimes abandon one another or civilly divorce one another but he commands let them remain unmarried this is first corinthians six or else be reconciled to their spouse so what exactly is christ talking about when he says except in case of immorality in the greek word there is poorname after the break i'll come back and answer that question cyrus sit tight we'll con we'll continue that question in just a moment here we've got some lines open for you if you'd like to join us and uh offer up a question for dr david anders our phone number eight three three ewtn that's 833-288-3986 for call to communion on ewtn now i have a quote for you from mother angelica's perpetual calendar it's your obligation to speak the truth and everyone can either take it or leave it the truth must be in us we live in such poverty of the truth today mother angelica's perpetual calendar features an inspirational message for each day of the year it's available from the ewtn religious catalogue at ewtnrc.com join ewtn for our celebration of divine mercy sunday with the marians of the immaculate conception we'll bring you a special preview show followed by the solemn mass and chaplet of divine mercy from the national shrine of the divine mercy in stockbridge massachusetts and later a holy hour in honor of the divine mercy live from the shrine of the most blessed sacrament in hanceville alabama join us sunday at noon eastern on ewtn television and radio essential prayer is powerful because it's prayer it's not powerful because it alters the universe in the way we want god's a lot smarter than that he says to pray because it has power now whether it turns out the way we want is not an indicator of the particular power of prayer it is powerful because it is [Music] it's called a communion here on ewtn our phone number eight three three two eight eight ewtn that's eight three three two eight eight 288-3986 before the break uh dr david andrews was uh explaining uh some answers here regarding um uh cyrus's email wanting an explanation of divorce messiah porneia the context of what christ meant when he was talking about divorce yeah thank you so in matthew chapter 19 where jesus says you cannot divorce your wife except in cases of and then the greek order there is poor now many protestants interpret that word to mean in cases of adultery you can lawfully divorce and remarriage although jesus says no such thing the greek word for divorce is not pornei it's mokaya and he doesn't use that word he says porneia what do you mean by that well differences opinion but let me go someplace where this exact case is in view in another passage of the bible it's first corinthians chapter 5. saint paul rebukes the corinthians because he says there is a case of porneia among you there's a case of porneia among you what is he talking about well we had a situation where a man married his stepmother man married his stepmother took his stepmother to his home presumably the fellow's dad had died he didn't actually say that but that would seem to be implied and uh and and paul's furious about that and he commands that the corinthians excommunicate the guy until he repudiates the woman and comes to repentance and then comes back to the church and that ultimately happens and then paul absolves absolves him in second corinthians what was the problem there right well it violated the laws of consanguinity you know you can't lawfully marry your relative right and uh in the jewish law at the time the stepmother even though she's not a biological relation had been married to his father and so that was obscene she was a relative and he was violating the laws of consanguinity and so paul commands that the guy repudiator he doesn't even think twice that this is that this is okay he says no he he cannot lawfully have this woman it's not lawful to him right unlawful repudiate right there is an impediment to there being a lawful marriage therefore you can't marry that person now we all understand this the nature of this relationship but we see it all the time around us like you know if you want to go marry some woman and you find out that she's for example already married there's off-limits well yeah and it doesn't matter if you walk her down the aisle you know walk her to the altar and say some vows they don't count because there is a gross impediment to a valid marriage namely she's already got a husband now there are other impediments one would be violating laws of consanguinity and there are others there are others catholic canon law now has a long list of impediments to a valid marriage um but uh but somebody's already married that's the biggest one and consanguinity would be another one now uh since there are other versions of christ's instruction that don't include the exception clause right so matthew 19 includes this exception clause or other passages where he doesn't include the inception clause it's probable that saint matthew uh you know acting as an editor of christ's words understands that this has become an issue in the early church we know this because in acts chapter 15 when the disciples are debating the apostles are debating how much of the mosaic law should gentiles observe one of the things that they insist they write an encyclical letter and they send it around to all the churches so you're not bound by the mosaic law but you are bound by the laws on consanguinuity you have to refrain from porneia is the word he uses okay so this seems to be in matthew 19 a text that is addressing what is a current situation in ancient christianity namely gentile converts coming into the church and engaging in unlawful marriages that violate some impediment therefore render them invalid if he had wanted to say adultery he would have said adultery now there is a whole other school of thought on matthew 19. there are some people that think no he he has actually talked about sexual relations that are intrinsically immoral like adultery and that's the exception clause even if you read it that way which protestants do christ never says that such people can remarry he never indicates that someone who repudiated repudiated his wife because of adultery could remarry and the apostle paul explicitly eliminates that option he says if if there is a divorce if you've separated you have to remain unmarried or else be reconciled and that's the catholic practice now in the catholic church you know when people hear well absolute indisolubility of christian marriage one of the questions is are you telling me i have to live with an adulterer no and the church doesn't insist on that so if you're in a situation that is just morally or psychologically impossible because you've got somebody who's in gross infidelity or drug abuse or some kind of abuse or something you might have to have recourse to a civil divorce and church recognizes that but if it's a valid marriage that divorce that civil divorce does not invalidate the sacramental marriage okay cyrus we hope that's helpful for you david have you ever thought about uh what saint paul would think about our world of 2021 and all the shenanigans that go on these days you know i i i haven't um i haven't thought that but i have wanted the time machine sometimes to travel back and talk to him oh yeah but you know i'll just have to wait till the next life and then we'll get to chat it up we'll call mr peabody and get the wayback machine cranked up sounds good we're going to go to the phones in a moment here if you have a question for dr david anders our lines are open at 833 288 ewtn that's 833-288-3986 for call to communion here on ewtn matthew is watching us right now on youtube hey matthew matthew says dr andrews can you help me with the difference between catholic predestination belief and armenianism they seem identical surely any predestination is conditional on the individual's response tomism seems to infer double predestination so we may have to do some definition of terms here yeah we got a lot of terms going on you bet okay now uh first of all let's just talk about predestination all right the greek word pro or so is used a number of times in the new testament and and and similar concepts are also used with other terms like election and calling these are language of you know god's special selection of some group of people i mean the preeminent example of election is the election of christ i mean god didn't just say well any old person can be the savior of the world he appointed jesus specifically from the foundation of the world the human jesus who would be the incarnate son of god was appointed for that special job uh blessed virgin mary was predestined to be the mother of god not just any any virgin from galilee or from bethlehem but that virgin was predestined from the beginning of time the call of abraham the election of israel uh all of these are cases of god's special election god didn't say i'm i'm putting out a general call to any ancient mesopotamian people that would like to form a covenant with me all right we're you know we're taking applicants right now you know queue up on friday no he called abraham he didn't call ag king of the amalekites he called abraham right that was god's election god's choice abraham wasn't walking around with a sign saying pick me pick me god picked him abraham didn't know about him god picked him right jesus christ himself says no one can come to me unless the father draw him so that's election the concept of election or predestination now when in in the new testament when the notion of salvation is more robust and fuller predestination includes god knowing uh those four knowing those whom he will save in eternity and granting them the grace necessary for the salvation in eternity and it's a constant note throughout sacred scripture now um in terms of working out the metaphysics if you will how does that work with our own freedom and is everybody predestined and so forth no scripture clearly distinguishes that that you know there are there is a determinant number of the elect not everybody makes it to heaven now the question well based on what does god choose is it arbitrary does he roll the dice is it based on his foreknowledge of human cooperation and freedom right and theologians debate that question and it is permitted for catholics to hold it's permitted for catholics to hold it's not necessary they hold this that god elects based on his foreknowledge of our free cooperation with his grace that's a permitted opinion right and it's associated with the molinos tradition within the sort of jesuit school of theology um uh it's however it's also permitted to say we don't know we don't know but there are some qualifications on the catholic doctrine of predestination one is that the god makes the offer of grace to everyone the offer of grace is made to everyone it's possible to resist his grace um and uh and even those who receive his grace still have to have the gift of perseverance in order to persevere to the end and be saved so the the the the set of people with grace is not identical to the set of the saved because there are those who will have grace and lose it and that's not up to us we have to have the gift of perseverance and so we pray that's why we pray to the blessed virgin mary and say pray for me now and at the hour of my death i need grace all the way up to the hour of my death in order to persevere all right now uh john calvin presbyterian theologian john calvin introduced a bunch of novel ideas into the doctrine of predestination first of all rather than understanding predestination is god marking out in advance those whom he foreknows will be saved calvin interpreted predestination is god's determination before the foundation of the world to pick some people to be saved and to pick some people to be damned so-called double predestination and emphatically god did not offer and calvin's scheme did not offer grace to everyone calvin believed grace could not be resisted that if god elected you would necessarily be saved and you would necessarily receive his grace and you would necessarily persevere right so it's a much more stark view that really denies the element of human freedom now uh the uh the so-called arminian position uh differs from calvin in a number of ways now armenian theologians give difference accounts of predestination as such but most of them just refer to predestination as as referring to the collective you know god predestines the church and you freely decide to enter the church or not right and so it's a much weaker doctrine of personal predestination within the the armenian tradition arminianism is not armenian right right armenian is a is a right of the catholic church armenian was named after jacob arminius who was a dutch theologian that thought calvin was wrong and so he went all the way the other direction and you know towards free will pretty much in opposition to calvinism not so much in opposition to catholicism okay very good thank you so much for your question it's called the communion here on ewtn lines are open for you right now at 833 288 ewtn that's 833-288-3986 uh deborah is watching us on youtube right now hey deborah she says i know some non-catholic women who often quote bring people to christ via a salvation prayer some pastors do similar things at the end of their services does the catholic church require such a prayer and if not why not oh i love this question because it gets me deep into the history of protestantism which is something of which i've made a special study right i was raised like this i was raised in the protestant tradition and i was taught that to come to christ meant to pray this special salvation prayer give your life to jesus and then you were saved predestined we were just talking about and you would not be lost once you prayed that prayer you were safe you were one and done you had your ticket to heaven and all was good that was the way i was raised so i know this tradition very well but then you know when i got to graduate school at seminary and i started studying theology and went back especially studied my own founder john calvin of my presbyterian church i realized that hey this i don't see this stuff in church history i certainly don't see catholics doing it but they didn't even see luther doing it or calvin or the earliest protestants this business praying to receive christ or praying to receive jesus into your life and calling that the beginning of the christian life i didn't find that anywhere in church history really until to be honest with you uh the late 19th century and i and i tracked it down and i found out who invented this practice was a guy named dl moody all right the evangelist dl moody who who was the first person to introduce the so-called sinner's prayer into protestant evangelism and say this is how you become a christian now after moody it really caught on in the protestant evangelical world bill bright of campus crusade for christ billy graham these are famous names these guys picked this up and ran with it right and it now it's just kind of par for the course in evangelicalism but it had a historical origin in the late 19th century why why did that happen okay well the earliest protestants believed like catholics that we are received into christ at baptism calvin taught that luther taught that as explicit and uh and so christian initiation how do you become a christian you get baptized that's how you do it that's how you do it and that's what scripture says galatians chapter 3 says whoever has been baptized has clothed himself with christ romans chapter 6 says we die with christ in baptism and are raised again with him the new life saint peter says baptism saves you in acts chapter 2 people say what should we do to be saved peter says be baptized for the remission of your sons and you'll receive the gift of the holy spirit baptism is how we enter into the christian life right so where did this business come from why did the protestants invent this well john calvin introduced an idea into christianity that was entirely new right this was the idea calvin's idea was that the people who are saved in baptism stay saved and they can never be lost so calvin's adoption of perseverance if you really receive god's grace calvin thought you can never lose it no one had ever thought that before everybody understood you could walk away from the church and walk away from god's grace and calvin understood that there were baptized people who walked away so how did he explain that well he said well here's what happens he says some people are saved in baptism this was calvin's opinion the protestant some people are saved in baptism and some aren't and and that depended on whether they were elect or not and so he introduced a doubt into the protestant world how do i know i'm elect how do i know i'm one of the guys that baptism worked on and over the next 400 years protestants began trying to work out an answer to that question that could give them assurance that they really had god's grace and the story is too long to tell now but eventually by the time it gets to d.l moody the way they answer that question is just to dispense with baptism altogether as the point of christian initiation and to invent this this new ritual which is just to recite a prayer written on a piece of paper and they say that's how you get into the christian life because you can be certain about saying that prayer now did that prayer come about the same time as the altar call or was it it was after the altar call so the altar call and uh well the um uh well it was gotta be charles uh grannison finney who was a evangelist before d.l moody and he uh he invented all these sort of psychological manipulation techniques to coerce conversion and moody simplified them all down to a single prayer wow okay well there it is thank you for unpacking that for us in a moment we're going to get to the phones at 833 288 ewtn looks like we have one line available right now eight three three two eight eight three nine eight six four call to communion [Music] jimmy aiken marcus crodie father john ricardo the leading catholic voices are on the largest catholic media network in the world you're listening to the ewtn global catholic radio network we should pray because prayer is conversation with god and conversation is the only way to build a relationship we need that relationship with god we should pray and talk with god about what's on our hearts what's on our minds what's active in our lives the joys we have we should share all of these with god prayer is conversation and conversation is the only way to build a relationship with god if it's the most important relationship all of our other relationships depend on this one and now the ewtn family prayer with father joseph family a prayer that we pray together is a powerful prayer so please pray together with me our ewtn family prayer today we pray for the conversion of sinners almost holy trinity father son and holy spirit we adore you we thank you for inviting us into your kingdom and for calling us out of darkness into your marvelous light let ewtn global catholic network be a great instrument for the conversion of sinners soften the hardened of heart melt those indifferent to your goodness and inflame those who are without love together with jesus we offer our prayers sufferings and sacrifices this day for their conversion amen hi this is psychedelic join us later today on catholic answers live as we do our best to explain and defend the catholic faith catholic answer is live 6 pm eastern on ewtn radio now back to call of the communion with dr david anders [Music] it's called a communion here on ewtn if you're ready now let's go to the phones at 833 288 ewtn we're going to begin today with tony in ponchatoula louisiana listening on his amazon alexa device a first time caller hey there tony what's on your mind today yes uh question is of close family member the difference between catholic and non-catholic sacraments we have a priest they have a pastor they have communion we have communion they have baptism we have baptism how do i explain the difference of being the catholic version compared to a little church around the corner yeah thank you so much really appreciate there are quite a few differences and i'll try to hit most of them as i can so the most important difference between a catholic priest and a protestant minister or protestant preacher is what they are ordained to do right and a protestant minister is primarily ordained to preach that's his job and even when he celebrates the sacraments the sacraments are really allied to the preaching right they're kind of subordinate to the preaching and they're they're really conceived of by protestants is just sort of symbolic sermons if you will right they're there for pedagogical purposes symbolic purposes to orient the mind towards the truth that the priest excuse me that the minister is articulating um because that's where it all takes place for them it's all it's all about the mental activity of of understanding uh you know a doctrinal truth and then affirming it and giving one's life to it so it's all psychological in that sense uh pedagogical instruction and and the difference in worship services is rather profound as you know you go into a protestant service it seems that the sermon is the main thing and and for some of them it'd be 45 minutes or an hour long and a lot of you know biblical expository teaching you know maybe a lot of exciting stories but however whatever they say it's really all about the message information being communicated that's sort of the heart and soul of protestant worship and the job description of a protestant minister and uh you know if a guy's not a good communicator not a good speaker he's not going to make it very far in the world of protestant ministry catholic church conceives things very very very differently very differently and uh you know you pretty much have to be a good preacher to be a protestant minister to be a successful one no such qualification on catholic priests right some of them are outstanding preachers some of them not so much not so much but that's not their primary job description right right the word priest right in sacred scripture and for that matter throughout the history of culture refers to the person whose job is to offer sacrifice and that is the principal job of a catholic priest is to offer sacrifice what sacrifice the holy sacrifice of the mass and when we go to mass we do not go to mass in order to receive the dissemination of information that's not why we go even when the priest gets up and preaches and says a homily the purpose of the homily is not catechetical instruction the homily itself the entire mass the whole liturgy is ordered toward the act of sacrifice when we offer the body and blood of christ to god the father in reparation for our sins and the what that indicates about the catholic view of worship it comes to us straight from the teaching of jesus and from saint paul you remember in john chapter 4 when christ meets the woman the samaritan woman at the well and she says well you know where are we supposed to offer sacrifice where are we supposed to worship and jesus says well you know a time is coming when you're not going to worry about whether you worship him here or there the father seeks worshipers who will worship him in spirit and truth well what does that mean what does it mean to worship god in spirit and in truth saint paul unpacks that for us in romans chapter 12 he says offer your bodies in living sacrifice that donation of yourself the giving of yourself an offering to god that he says is the worship in spirit and in truth that's the rational act of worship that christ is speaking of the heart of our worship to god is not us getting a bible lesson but of us giving our lives joined together with christ to god in an act of sacrificial worship and it makes a big difference in how you live your life when you begin to let this realization work on you right because i see i grew up protestant and i became catholic when i was growing up protestant i thought the big deal was to get the information right to get the doctrine right you know to be to be a good teacher to understand and then to be able to persuade people to argue them into my protestant faith you know to proselytize them to convert them that's how that's how i thought i had to serve god you know go out on street corners or in classrooms whatever it is and persuade people argue with them give them information and that was how i was going to serve god you know catholics will teach and they'll give people information but that's not ultimately the service that god desires most and jesus is explicit about this mother teresa is a very good picture of the service that god desires the most don't worry as much about converting your neighbors make sure they have enough to eat make sure they have a way to die with dignity make sure they have clothes and a roof over their head and you know when you might ask mother teresa why do you do this are you a social worker she's not a social worker no i'm not a social worker she said i am a catholic religious and i do these things as a sacrifice unto christ that is the spiritual act of worship that jesus most desires now bringing people to an understanding of the truth and helping them meet christ is very very important but the giving of ourselves in charity to our neighbor into the love of god that's the central catholic act of worship and everything about our church is oriented to that reality tony is that helpful for you all right that's pretty good thank you thank you appreciate your call that opens up a line for you right now at 833 288 ewtn if you have a question for dr david anders hey what's keeping you from becoming a catholic let's talk about it here on ewtn's call to communion 833-288-3986 those of you watching us today on tv you can participate by shooting us an email ctc ewtn.com christine is watching us in india right now david christine says my husband his sister and brother-in-law are born again christians my mom-in-law and dad-in-law are catholics however nobody from my in-laws family goes to church nor do they even pray i am mocked every time i oppose anything unholy or unchristian they immediately challenge me and they say is this really the catholic way do catholics not worship mary idols and statues please advise me on how to handle such arguments thanks christine in india yeah christine thank you so much i'm so sorry for your suffering what a what a cross to bear what a burden to bear to be mocked by your family like that that's so horrible so the first thing i'd like to say to you is um blessed are you yeah that's what jesus said right he said blessed are you when men persecute you and say all manner of things against you falsely for my sake for in the same way they treated the prophets who are before you yours is the kingdom of heaven right so you're in really really good company right i mean this is how they treated christ uh this is how they treated the prophets and this is one of the chief beatitudes that christ says is as an indicator that you are in fact as a disciple so i mean blessed are you i mean this is not a blessing any of us chooses right of course i mean this is a huge burden and my heart got out it goes out to you but but uh but to suffer this with patience and dignity wow what an opportunity to merit so um so remember that jesus himself also tells us that that that members of a person's own household will turn against them because they choose to follow him that's a hard teaching but we can take comfort when it happens to us to know that christ predicted it and he promised reward for those that endure such such persecution with constancy and with fortitude so thank you for your witness um when it comes to answering your relatives i would say we're going to give you some answers but um but unburden yourself of the need to convert them right unburden yourself of the need to convert them god is in the converting business you're in the discipleship business you're in the business of loving christ and loving the church and obeying him and following your conscience and to do that with equanimity to do that with peace of mind and peace of conscience is by far the best witness that you can give to your family as you do this you know if you get defensive and or upset sad or angry and you you know you get into an argument with them the best way to get anybody to double down on their opposition is to tell them they're wrong because then their pride's at stake and they got to worry about it proven to you that they're right so you gotta you that's not how jesus operated you know jesus operated really kind of on the sly a lot of times he didn't answer under the radar he didn't answer questions you know straight up he would give these real elliptical and enigmatic answers to questions and he'd flip around and ask a question in return you know and uh uh and we could take up we could take a page out of jesus's playbook here you know um so unburden yourself of that need but if for your own conscience you need answers to these questions that they posed to you and what was the specific charge about worshiping the saints or praying to mary that was the particular issue oh that was uh yeah do catholics not worship mary idols and statues yeah yeah absolutely that's the question so no we certainly don't right we certainly don't worship uh mary or idols or statues what we do is we ask the blessed virgin to pray for us which is something that the holy scriptures command us to do yeah right um the idea that we we don't actually have a choice in this matter the sacred scripture says we must pray for one another it also teaches that the more holy intercede for the less holy that's the scriptural teaching right those who are more holy intercede for the less holy and that continues after we die continues into the next life so revelation chapter 5 says that the saints in heaven offer our prayers to god well we need that we don't have an option about this we we need the communion of saints to intercede for us now they do this through the grace of christ of course but that's how christ makes himself present to us he makes himself present to us through the members of his body the church through media mediators through instruments that's how we come into the grace of christ so this isn't an act of adoration this is we're adoring god by asking the help of the members of his body which is the church all right thank you so much christine for listening to us all the way in india it is called a communion here on ewtn we'll go back to the phones in just a second and talk with catherine and peoria first of all i want to tell you about a wonderful book available this month from ewtn publishing and it's called a holy hour with mother angelica in 29 brief and brilliant chapters mother guides us with scriptural references and her own personal prayers meditations and intentions this book is a beautiful accompaniment to prayer in front of the blessed sacrament and at home as well it is terrific uh endorsed by our own father joseph mary wolf i think you're really going to enjoy a holy hour with mother angelica it's available right now at ewtn r dot ewtnrc.com by catholic shop ewtnrc.com all right as promised here is catherine now in peoria illinois listening there catherine what's on your mind today hi thanks for taking my call i am a catholic i have a friend who is a first nazarian she just actually moved from the catholic faith over to that church and my question is just to try and better understand what that church is yeah are they protestant i've tried to do some searching but if you could just help me kind of understand them a little bit yeah that might help sure the nazarene denomination uh is an outgrowth of a 19th century american movement called the wesleyan holiness movement okay so it's very modern and the most important thing to know about the difference between the nazarene denomination and the catholic church is that the nazarene denomination was founded in america in the 19th century and the catholic church was founded 2000 years ago by jesus in the holy land and so we go back in direct continuity to christ the nazarenes go back sort of to john wesley but as interpreted by some american figures like asa mahan and charles finney so let me break down nazarene theology and the holiness movement just briefly okay within protestantism uh the sort of the dominant view for you know a couple hundred years was the calvinist view that people are totally depraved that was john calvin's view so that you cannot you cannot help yourself from sinning even if you have the lord's grace so the command be perfect as your father in heaven is perfect calvin didn't take that seriously uh he thought that was impossible that that you know whatever you did it was going to be pretty hateful to god and you were just going to be saved by faith alone not by the quality of your moral life well charles wesley who was also protestant and so he believed in salvation by faith alone and he believed in the bible alone those distinctly protestant doctrines nevertheless he had a problem with this idea that humans don't have free will and everything they do is just hateful to god because scripture seems so obviously to contradict that he recognized that the life of holiness was very important that god wanted us to live holy lives that it was he wouldn't command the impossible and we should be able to live them so wesley began to teach adoption of christian perfection and he was influenced in this of course by catholic writers because the catholic church believes in the doctrine of christian perfection because jesus commands it and teaches it and and we have seen those who have attained to christian perfection namely the saints right they perfectly united to god and charity that's why they're saints that's the life we aspire to and so wesley began to teach something similar but without some of the catholic accents if you will and he actually wrote a book called christian perfection and his view was that you should aspire to it and you might be able to get there by the end of your life you know kind of like with your last breath you might be able to sort of pass into that state of christian perfection if you worked all your life long there were some fellows in the 19th century in america who were influenced by revivalism now you know revivalism begins in the 18th century and it has another run in the 19th century and this is a branch of sort of protestant enthusiasm where you you you gather in large meetings and you exhort people to have a religious experience a lot of hype a lot of emotion make a decision for christ that sort of thing and and these these awakening experiences first and second grade awakening are are experienced by people who have them as great turning points in their life crisis moments where there is a distinct before and after none of this gradual development stuff we're going to get it all in one go and while that revivalism was applied to the idea of salvation some wesleyans who they liked charles wesley john wesley they said well why not apply that idea to the acquisition of christian holiness and so wesley thought that you know acquiring holiness was something different from salvation by faith something that you sort of grew into and they said well let's let's maybe there are two crisis moments in christian life now you see i'm way far away from catholic theology at this point this the catholics do not think this way and so they said well there's this there's this you know revival conversion experience at the beginning of christian life and then they posited a second crisis experience where one would attain to the state of christian perfection and that's really the distinct note behind the holiness movement the wesleyan holiness movement in 19th century american protestantism the idea that you would have these two distinct crisis moments in life conversion and then christian perfection and the nazarenes the nazarene denomination continues to teach that although the emphasis is probably a bit muted today compared to you know 150 years ago interestingly interesting story here many holiest holiness thinkers referred to that second experience as the baptism of the holy spirit that's the language that they used later holiness thinkers in the early 20th century imagined that it had to be accompanied by the speaking in tongues as in the book of acts and thus was born modern pentecostalism and the charismatic movement so modern pentecostalism and the charismatic movement are a direct outgrowth of the wesleyan holiness movement with its emphasis upon two distinct crisis sort of tangible sensible crisis experience in the progress of christian life now what do you do with all that as a catholic well first of all you recognize that none of these categories make sense outside of wesleyanism and protestantism they just don't apply but we can be grateful for any protestant tradition that recognizes the truth of some catholic doctrines and we can be happy about those elements that we have in common so you know where i would go is hey you guys believe in a life of holiness that's great we have something called the universal vocation to holiness you know all catholics believe that they're called to be holy and and we believe that god gives us grace to do that we also think that holiness can develop through stages and we have stages they're not these revival experiences but we have stages of growth and holiness in the catholic church as well so that's something we have in common so let's be happy about that absolutely catherine thanks so much for your call from peoria here on ewtn's call to communion let's go to marion right now in fletcher oklahoma listening on oklahoma catholic radio hey there mariam what's on your mind today hi i just need advice because i felt like i lost faith with catholic or maybe just me i'm i'm i was born catholic um as long as i can remember and i'm from philippines when i married my husband and landed here in states the entire family was catholic but both of his parents and him himself refused to go to church how do i convince my husband to go back to i don't know maybe just attend i don't know once in a month or something like that because i don't think i would able to explain to him you know that just because we're married i don't want to change the way how i used to do back home i used to be a choir yeah when i got here everything's changed well listen mary thank you so much for the call and i'm so sorry that you have to go through this what a horrible thing to change countries leave your home come to a new land and then to have your family walk away from the faith of your origin and your birth how painful that must be for you and my heart goes out to you so i'm so sorry that you're having to go through that i would say first of all the most important thing for you to do by all means is do not give up the practice of your faith so your own determination to go to mass every week and stay in the sacraments go to confession pray your rosary please keep doing those things whatever your family does whatever your husband does whatever your in-laws do don't stop doing those things right and um and just like we told the caller earlier on the show if they make fun of you for that or they mock you for that or put you down remember that jesus said that could happen to us he said the members of our own household might turn against us for following him if that happens to you you're among the company of the prophets you're like one of the apostles you're like jesus himself right and there's a special blessing for those who have to go to church and live their christian life in spite of the opposition of their family um you know i would say it's you don't have to you don't have the responsibility of making them go like if they don't go that's not on you like god's not going to hold you responsible for that he holds them responsible for that sure and uh and so you know i would invite i would invite i would not insist and you know you can make a patient invitation and there are people in your situation who have done that for say 20 years or longer or longer yeah and then one day you know the spouse says y'all go yeah you never know you gotta you gotta wait on god's time so i would live the faith generously yourself don't give it up be patient uh invite but don't demand good advice marion thank you so much for checking in today from oklahoma let's go now to uh lisa in mounds oklahoma also there listening today on youtube lisa what's on your mind today um i'm a revert catholic and um my husband is um we've been attending baptist church and he's he lets me go to catholic mass and all that but i've asked him three times to convalidate our marriage in the church and he refuses to do it because he says he's protecting me from error and so um now whereas before i felt like i was being submissive to him going to church with him because i'll still go to baptist church with him because he acute he's telling me that i am usurping his spiritual authority but now that he refuses um repeatedly to convalidate our marriage and and those conversations usually end in him either threatening annulment or divorce i feel like now if i go to baptist church with him it's i'm not willingly submitting i'm it's forced compliance and it's bothering my conscience and so i don't know should i submit to my husband and go to baptist church with him or do i speak my mind and let him know that it's forced compliance that i don't feel comfortable going yeah thank you so much oh i'm so sorry you're going through this i am so sorry you're going through this what a heavy heavy burden you have so there are a couple things you need to be aware of one of them is that there is a way for you to convalidate your marriage without his explicit participation it's called radical signation and it it it works in cases just like yours where you have a catholic and a non-catholic and they need to have their marriage convalidated the non-catholic spouse is not willing to participate in the progress in the process but is willing to continue in the marriage that's important if there's a if there's an ongoing intention to participate in the marriage then the church can grant something called radical senation which convalidates you without his explicit cooperation now his threatening divorce introduces a wrinkle to be sure and you got to figure that one out like you know maybe you have put the question to him look i am catholic and i'm going to die catholic are you willing and i'm and i'm not i'm not like 30 catholic and 77 percent baptist or vice versa i'm catholic and uh and and my ultimate authority is not you it's jesus christ my ultimate authority is not you it's jesus christ and i'm gonna be obedient to christ before i do anything about you if you're willing to be married to me under those circumstances we can move forward and if he says yes then you can pursue radical senation right you can pursue radical senation you don't need him to keep you from error jesus did not name him the the rock of the church's foundation christ did not give him the job of keeping you from error he gave that to the teaching authority of the catholic church the pope and the bishops and sacred tradition keep you from error it's not your husband's job to keep you from error in terms of the practical decision should you or should you not go to the protestant service with him from a theological point of view you're certainly permitted to walk in a baptist church that's not forbidden to you can't take their putative sacraments but i agree with you i think if you are going under compulsion and you know this is a kind of club that's being held over your head i would not accept i would you know i would not accept that club i i wouldn't want to act under compulsion and i think it's important for you to make a stand for your catholic faith and say this is who i am this is how i'm going to die you take it or leave it yeah lisa thank you so much for your call we appreciate hearing from you couldn't get to a bunch of questions that came in on social media from youtube and facebook we'll try to carry those other to a future show hey dr david anders thank you sir thanks tom we keep the program on the air for you every day monday through friday at 2 p.m eastern here on ewtn radio on behalf of our fantastic team i'm tom price for dr david andrews see you next time god bless this is al cresta from creston the after

Channel: EWTN

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Length: 54min 10sec (3250 seconds)

Published: Fri Apr 09 2021