Cain and Abel

we've got the original paradisal state and then the collapse and so now metaphysically speaking we're in the collapse we're in the we're in the post fall condition we're still occupying a mythological landscape right this isn't history as we normally understand it it's meta history so when we talk about Cain and Abel Cain and Abel we're actually talking about the first to real human beings because Adam and Eve a were created by God and being were in paradise and so that's not the normative condition of human beings right that's a that's a special time that's outside of normal time in space so and out in the new Eve his wife and she conceived and bore Cain and said I have gotten a man from the Lord and she again bare his brother Abel and Abel was a keeper of sheep but Cain was a tiller of the ground okay so Abel's a shepherd and Cain is a farmer the Shepherd is an archetypal symbol because the Shepherd is the leader of a flock and the Shepherd is the heroic leader of a flock and the reasons this is Middle Eastern mythology let's say well if you were a shepherd what did you do we took your slingshot in your stick and you defended your nice juicy plump delicious sheep against lions so Abel was a keeper of sheep and Cain was a tiller of the ground which isn't as heroic a role and so right off the bat you get this dichotomy between the two roles it's also a great interest that Cain is the older brother and Abel is the younger brother and you see that very frequently in mythology because the older brother is the one that's privileged by status right so he's got he's got privilege Cain cuz he's the elder brother that also means that if there are possessions to be handed down the generations the older brother gets them now interestingly enough Cain has privileged but he's not the one that's favored by God that and I think that's absolutely absolutely brilliant that it's set up that way because it's actually Abel who doesn't have the right that the first board has who actually turns into the person who's the proper manifestation of the ideal it's because Cain has things given to them you might think well that that's great he's privileged what a wonderful thing for Cain it's like don't be so about that and in process of time it came to pass that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord and Abel he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof and the Lord had respect unto Abel and his offering but unto Cain and his offering he had no respect and Cain was very wroth angry and his countenance fell okay so again there's a tremendous amount packed into that this is the first time that we see the motif of sacrifice imagine that your you're a farmer back wooden but not was an extraordinarily you were barely scraping out a living doing that it was hand to mouth at best all right so now it's winter and you've got your damn seeds in your cellar right what are you going to do you're starving you're going to eat them or are you going to wait and plant them again in the spring because that's your damn choice and so the people who decided to eat them well some of the people who decided to save them died well let's say more of the people who decided to eat them died and so this sort of knowledge was was gathered within an unbelievable agony you don't get what what you have what you want right now for you that's nothing because you're very much accustomed to getting what you want all the time right now roughly speaking you know compared to people who live from hand to mouth but back when things were much rougher the idea that you had to sacrifice something of value now to be paid off in the future man that was a rough thing to accept okay so what happened so people figured this out somehow they figured out that you could make an offering of something you valued and that might help set the world straight how did they conceptualize that well they conceptualize it ritually they were acting it out to begin with and the the sacrificial ritual is a drama that points to a higher psychological truth and the higher psychological truth is let go of what sin let go of what you value now and perhaps that will pay off Multi manifold in the future you're making a bargain and then you might say well who are you making a bargain with and you could say well nature but that's not exactly right it's not exactly right because let's say I have something of value in a social in a social organization and I'm going to I'm going to let it go because I'm relying on a corresponding reward or a greater reward in the future it's a contractual relationship with other people it's not a relationship with nature it's that we've organised ourselves into a social structure and we're willing to maintain the integrity of the social structure across time so that if I give up something now I can be paid for it in the future and the rule that the deal is that we're going to try to keep the future the same as the present so that those contracts can be can be met in the future that's money that's what money is right here's some money you made of sacrifice that's why you get the money what is the money signify it's a promise from the community that the labor that you invested can be stored and then brought forward for your own purposes in the future so it's actually part of the social contract so the thing you're sacrificing to is the spirit of society that produces the social contract and so that's conceptualized as God the Father well how else would you conceptualize it it's it's the spirit of the dominant hierarchy that's the right way to think about it so it's the it's what's common across all the members of the dominant hierarchy across time well it's something you can negotiate with true or not what the hell do you think you're doing when you make a contract what's the law it's all of this it's the manifestation of that patriarchal spirit across time and space and what do you do you sacrifice to it well so back 4,000 years ago 5,000 years ago however old this story is it's probably older than that this is the best people could do with regards to realization in process of time it came to pass that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord and Abel he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof now that's interesting this is this is where a close reading matters so we don't know what Cain's offering is it's not much described but we do know something about Abel's offering and what we know is that by the standards of the time it's a high-quality offerings so it looks like Abel's doing a good job that's the implication the story doesn't say Abell is doing a really good job with his sacrifices it just hints at it and I like that because because it leaves that ambiguity it's like maybe you're working really hard and your brother's working really hard and you really can't tell the difference between your quality of work and his quality of work but for some reason he's succeeding like mad that happens right because there's an arbitrary element to life and so the story says well the Lord has respect unto Abel and his offering and there's an implication that maybe the reason for that is that you know Cain's offerings are a little second-rate but the story doesn't come over you club you over the head with that idea so I like that I think it's very sophisticated so what happens well Kay and makes his offerings and God isn't happy with them now we don't know how Cain figures out that God isn't happy with his offerings we get some hints of that too but the story does tell us that's what happens and so then we get the psychological response on the part of Cain now one response could be Jesus I must be doing something wrong I better straighten myself out you know I better come up with a better quality offering and try that again that isn't what happens what happens instead is that Cain becomes angry Roth and his countenance fault and so what does that mean it means this right it means he is not happy but it's good those two things are both put together right he's Roth he's angry and he's also depressed and so he's in a state of mind that well I think the best characterization for that is hostile resentment because it's unfair so anyway so God has a little child with him and he says well what why are you angry if you do well won't you be accepted and if you don't do well sin lies at your door and unto thee shall be his desire and thou shalt rule over him okay that's a very mangled translation I would say so I'm going to take it apart so what God says is while you're angry and you're upset it's like well what's your problem and then God tells Cain if you did things properly they would work out for you it's the last thing he wants to hear because what Cain wants to believe is that the reason he's not doing very well is because there's no sense having any faith in the logos the transcendent is is evil and aimed exactly against him and the entire social contract is faulty that's what he wants to hear but that is what God says God says wait a minute maybe you're doing something wrong well that's maybe a worse message then everything else is corrupt it's like you're having a problem because you're just not everything you could be well and then God says something really nasty and you can't tell from this lines I read a bunch of translations to try to figure out exactly what it meant so this is what God tells Kate not only are you doing something wrong you bloody well know you're doing something wrong and you and you're doing it creatively and with intent so not only are things not going well for you but you've played a creative role in producing that situation and so God basically says I am taking zero responsibility for rejecting your sacrifice it's all on you and so Cain lays and believe me he's he was Roth before his countenance had fallen before but it's nothing like it is now and so he hits the next stage and he thinks okay I'm going to take my revenge what am I going to do I'm going to find the most innocent and worthwhile thing that's favourite of God and I'm going to kill it and that's what he does so and doesn't matter that his brother and Abel we know we're drawing the inference Abel's got the right things everyone likes him everything's flourishing for Abel he's a good guy he's one of those people that you meet that has everything and then you meet them and you wish you could hate them but you can't because they're really good people and then you really hate them because not only do they have everything but it appears that they deserve it and there's nothing that sort of sits in your soul and rots it more than that realization and so that's the situation with Cain and so Cain thinks Cain talked with Abel his brother and it came to pass when they were in the field the Cain rose up against Abel his brother and slew him so that's so interesting because look look what happens to Cain here so he's not doing well he's separated from the transcendent and from society he's bitterly resentful and now he goes out and kills the very thing that he most wants to be so he destroys his own ideal right he demolishes his own ideal that's how far his resentment has pushed him and so he's he's done right but he doesn't matter because it enables him to revenge and the Lord says unto Cain where is Abel thy brother and Cain said I know I don't know am I my brother's keeper well that's a good question that's why it's posed in the story because the answer that it's supposed to be yes and God says what have you done the voice of your brother's blood cries unto me from the ground and now you're cursed from the earth which has opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand when you till the ground it will not henceforth yield unto you it strength a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth you know and you might say well why does God not just strike Cain dead and the answer to that perhaps is that wouldn't be sufficient punishment that's what it looks like to me it's like what's the punishment you live with what you did right and I don't want anybody taking out either because then you won't have to live with what you did so that's the punishment and Cain says unto the Lord my punishment is greater than I can bear looks like ya behold you have driven me out this day from the face of the earth and from thy face shall I be hid that's the same as what happens to Adam in the Garden of Eden remember Adam hides from God and he has his reasons and now Cain is alienated from God there's no Reid there's no reconstructing that relationship so he's in hell for all intents and purposes behold thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth and from thy face shall I be hid and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth and it shall come to pass that everyone who finds me will will kill me and God says therefore whoever slayeth Cain vengeance shall be taken on him Sevenfold and the Lord set a mark onto Cain lest any finding him should kill him now that's interesting you think why in the world would God protect Cain well the next part of the story actually tells you that you have a family I have a family your brother kills my son so what do I do I come and I kill your father and your cousin and then you think well I killed your father and your cousin I'm going to come back and I'm going to kill four of your people and then I come back and say yeah no problem it's 16 EU this time and then you come back and you say 16 a let's try for 32 and Cain went out from the presence of the Lord and dwelt in the Land of Nod on the East of Eden and Cain knew his wife and she conceived and bare Enoch etc so now you have a genealogy right so Cain starts to have a family you have a genealogy and so a number of people are named in the lineage and so and it tells you what this is sort of an attempt to describe how things came about so this is like the naming of the heroes of old and so you have Enoch who builds the city you have jebel who is the father of those who dwell in tents and of those who have cattle you have Jubal who is the father of musicians and Zillah who bore tubal Cain now tubal Cain is a very interesting person by tradition tubal Cain is the first artificer of weapons of war so Cain's descendant after multiple generations is the person who produces weapons of war alright and so so there's another bit of the story within which that needs to be placed in context and Lamech who's one of the grandchildren of Cain says unto his wife at wives Adah and Zillah hear my voice ye wives of Lamech hearken unto my speech for I have slain a man to my wounding and the young man to my hurt okay so what he's saying is he he's been involved in a murder if can be a vote then Sevenfold truly Lamech seventy and Sevenfold and so there's the implication there that the tit for tat process has begun Cain kills Abel Abel Cain's children kill seven Cain's grandchildren kill seventy fold and then tubal Cain pops up on the horizon and he's the person who makes artifice of war and so the story in its fragmentary manner ties the individual psychopathology that's resentful and revenge-seeking - the proclivity for broad-scale warfare

Channel: Whanhee

Views: 364,195

Rating: 4.8856087 out of 5

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Id: vMJnpwwpytg

Length: 15min 40sec (940 seconds)

Published: Sat Jul 08 2017

Reddit Comments

[u/Gleanings]

I'm not finding any biblical basis for this "tradition", so it seems to be at the same level as "masonic tradition informs us". Yet it's an interesting idea that the size of revenge killing would keep getting larger with each generation of Cain's descendants:

• Cain kills Able in jealousy
• Cain's children retaliate and kill 7 in revenge for one of their own.
• Cain's grandchildren kill 70 in revenge
• Cain's descendent Tubalcain is the first artificer of weapons of war, now unlocking large scale warfare, wholesale slaughter, mowing down people like reeds in the field, and extermination of entire tribes and peoples.

[u/poor_yoricks_skull]

Does Professor Peterson believe that the family of Cain followed the "Chicago way?"