Buyer Beware! 10 Used Cars to Avoid Like The Plague: TFLnow Live Show #3

joining us and as always to my right is TFS managing editor Andrey Smirnoff day-drunk hi guys and of course senior presenter nathan Adlon yep thank and behind this today we have the new Ford what is it Andre it's a 2018 expedition well I don't have 2018 expedition because it's part of our new segment which is coming up soon yeah so coming up on today's show we're gonna do a whole bunch of fun stuff we're gonna talk about the news which i think is exciting because that vehicle is gonna be featured hylene it who knew big honking SUVs are back in a big way I'm gonna talk about the news we're gonna do shout out so if you guys have any if you're watching this live and if you have any input into the show we want you to be part of it so definitely come join us we're gonna have a giveaway we're gonna be giving away one of these wonderful hats using the picture of the day so you can have to guess that's gonna be at the very end of the show and the main part of the show we're going to be doing buyer beware boys the ten cool cars use cars that you should avoid buying and why yeah but they're cool but not so cool they're cool these are I specifically want are you sure a cool car like what like they're not big mid-sized sedans or crossover and a little surprising right they're cool car surprise okay all right but before any of that Andre let's talk about the news so that is your neck of the woods yep news and number one and the news segment is Land Rover Range Rover did it does stunts but it is something really incredible they drove a Range Rover Sport up a staircase up a staircase which is 45 degrees this is the Heaven's Gate also known as Heaven's Gate and China in China and this was that P hav so their hybrid version and it was really frightening we have a clip of this of this event because there's 999 steps at a 45 degree angle this was the first car to attempt it and they well they succeeded but it was not the very look at the look at the center screen do you see the angle 45 degrees Wow and then this is a rock step so it's slick and if you miss something and if you roll down the hill you die it's yeah he's going as fast by the way it's like a ski yo pretty much wow it's cloudy you ski there did he fall too he'll keep watching boom another Bing so this driver is actually shields also done Formula electric driving in Formula One driving yeah and when he got out of the car he basically said this is the craziest thing he's ever done you know there are two brands Andre and Nathan that have the most off-road cred of course and that's Land Rover and Jeep and I kind of feel like without a defender these guys are trying really hard to prove that they still have off-road cred because a disco sport right yeah it's not the most Range Rover Sport Rover Sport right it's not the most off-road worthy I mean you know a lot of it is about tires approaching the part triangle and they're kind of what they're proving here with what the press really said which I read this weekend was that they're you know terrain management system handled this challenge and I am old-school you know you can have all the electronics you want you can have power being shuffled from you know one wheel to the other hitting the brakes I'd still rather have to locking it better get three locking diffs good tires good ground clearance and a desert air intake it looked like stock tires but there's an air intake nobody got that no I got it I tried to ignore it you know this was covered with snow and he did that that would be impressive but yeah it's you know they're trying to get their street cred back well what else is happening in the news world well full-size SUVs body-on-frame SUVs are back and specifically well the one behind us is the 2018 Ford Expedition but it's really popular so it was just redesigned by Ford and also as well as Lincoln Navigator was just redesigned their sales are up in a big way 59% increase in January of the previous year for the expedition one hundred and thirty two percent increase for the Navigator over last year but you have to remember they were not selling very many last year because it was at the end of their life cycle the sales were slumping but now they're big in the big way and they're investing into factories Kentucky Louisville to build these trucks and they're saying that actually froze you know employees can get cars yeah court employees yeah Ford employees so if you're for the like we're sending cars right the Ford employee can get discount on the vehicle right well they just closed orders for expedition and navigator because they want to sell them to the consumers so in fact we didn't even get this car this truck in our primary haven't tested the navigator yeah they they have it they had it at the Chicago Auto Show we did a video we kind of to walk around with the product manager for this vehicle and she told me something interesting you know what how many days I'm like you think this thing is on average days I'm I basically measures how popular cars are so if a car is been popular it can languish on the lot up to two months or many months yeah how many days on live five days seven very close basically they every single one they build they sell and they're expensive the one that we did the walk-around was a hundred and five thousand it was a black edition yeah it was very luxurious I don't know how many cops gave up their hides but it was incredible and I guess that just foretells the future that SUVs are red-hot hey do we have a graph that we can put up there this is an interesting graph our friend and Tom put this together you want to walk us through it yeah so this is basically showing you so at the bottom the number on the Left pickup trucks how many pickup trucks the big truck makers sell that's right here we pick up drugs and the next column is SUVs body-on-frame but but you did the comparison you know a ratio how many of Seabees yourself versus how many trucks and the average is 25 yeah so one in four so what's interesting about this for instance is GM's right kind of in the middle yeah at the average but four it's only 7% of their big trucks body-on-frame are actually like that SUVs yeah whereas with Toyota its exact opposite its 56% so a lot of people are buying sequoias for more riders yeah and maybe maybe the reason there's so much demand is because that number is so out of whack that 7% is so out of whack with the rest of them yeah but by next year I guarantee you that number is gonna go up significantly yeah I mean without a doubt well here's what I see in that segment GM kind of has it locked down right you know basically the Tahoe duquan I mean they're selling about they have about 70 to 75% of the segment yeah so forth has a big challenge ahead of them because how do you break into that how do you sell more let's ask for a shout out Andre what do you guys think do you like these big SUVs is that something you would consider buying I mean are you buying it because for instance it's a better alternative to a minivan right I mean face it this is a seven passenger vehicle three rows and if you've got a big family but if that's something of the main event doesn't write is can tell ya towing is a big thing so if you have a big trailer a big boat mmm excuse me babe full-size SUV is where you want to be yeah yeah and just real quickly what makes this different than the competition aluminum four-wheel independent suspension twin turbocharged v6 those are like the main bits of ingredients that make this different than a suburban which hasn't changed a long time the question I have is now that they're putting in diesels right GM announced that they're doing a straight-6 diesel are those gonna wind up in these big SUVs well sure that's exciting because it'll lower their cafe man well you can say the same thing for just putting a diesel into f-150 and speaking of cafe numbers that's our story Andre yes final story final news story for today is White House and the NHTSA National Highway Traffic Association are considering to lowering their mpg standards for 2026 so what the proposal been so far with under Obama under Obama's administration the goal was 46.6 mph the fleet average for fleets by 2026 none of those no no but the proposal is to lower it all the way down to thirty five point seven so basically take like 11 mpg out of it which is huge because basically that changes the mixture of cars that automakers are building because if they don't have to meet those emission standards right then they don't have to build the bolt they don't have to build the Prius they can build many more of those yeah and the alarming number is under Obama's administration by 2030 that would mean that 61 percent of all vehicles would be hybrids or electric here on the new proposal it could be ten percent so you know what it is right now less than one percent we've got a long way to go exact any shout out to anybody have any thoughts about this or Mike can you shout out yeah well it's a really heavy truck that's the first thing and bear in mind that with all that weight with fairly small tires you can dig in fairly easily so one of the things you may want to do is make sure that if you're going on a trail that somebody else in a similar truck has done it successfully it's a really easy way to check it out otherwise you may be getting stuck because it's just such a big heavy beast all right I'm gonna keep this conversation on topic guys so tomorrow we're doing actually an ask mr. truck if you have specific buyer questions about trucks about configuring about towing please save it tomorrow and Mike if anybody is asking about the stuff we're actually talking about we're gonna give those shout outs a priority if you guys have other questions about like power wagons and such it's not today's show yeah wait till tomorrow we'll be W psycho thank you for the shout out yeah and the answer is yes I think that you know it's supply and demand people want SUVs right now people love SUVs even crossovers so yeah as long as you guys keep buying them they're gonna keep making them and they're going to make a lot of money off you are doing it and this new generation of expedition actually they've improved it fuel efficiency oh yeah they have you know they subtracted a lot of weight several hundred pounds worth with aluminum body new 10-speed automatic right twin turbo v6 so they're thinking about fuel economy even in the big truck that's right so as long as if the standards are lowered yeah there'll be more trucks I mean yeah you know it's funny how short memory we have right it wasn't that long ago like 2009 where people were buying big SUVs big trucks and then gas prices went through it's like a stock market right everybody thought you couldn't find the and then all of a sudden something dramatic happened like with the fuel prices and people couldn't run farther a faster way from these so now now we're going back up to that but at some point you know that's gonna happen right maybe one gas goes when you have to double swipe your credit card to fill that bad boy up things are gonna start coming three supplement please please increase the limit to 200 Thank You Mikey okay let's get let's move on yeah sumon so today's most interesting topic that we're talking about our buyer beware right we love classic cars and trucks we love cool classic cars and trucks and we have some experience in kind of which ones do avoid and so hopefully we're gonna give you some insider information as to what is a good one to buy and what you should run far and fast from we're gonna do it as our usual top ten list so why don't you start Nathan and top ten buyer beware used cars to avoid now surprisingly on this list number ten is the 2011 to 2013 Honda Civic the ninth generation and there there were quality issues with this car which is really surprising for Honda had a harsh ride interior issues and another company rated the 2012 model to poor your consumer reports yeah consumer report and the crazy thing about this Honda was I was there I think we were both there when they introduced the next version of it the Refresh they actually refresh cars with every like four years this one two years yes very quickly very quickly and they actually apologized and actually apologized he grudgingly apologized I mean obviously there is it's like they kind of phoned it in and everybody called him on it and they said well you're right we're cost-cutting I think this is one of those cases where there was too much management and not enough engineering yeah but but we'll never know for sure because they would never tell us fortunately it's improved the newer ones are much better now the next one super interesting I agree what's the next one dude it's a Subaru Impreza WRX really yes but this is a 2008 model and here this only in all its glory yeah well the thing is the styling so the engine was still right but the styling and just it wasn't quite as quick as a competitor like a Mitsubishi Evo and the styling wasn't there I mean it looked like an economy hatchback but it was actually a WRX actually it was like they took what they did was they took the WRX and they refreshed it and the market was going kind of torn over this is 2008 remember I said the fuel economy right yeah so market was going toward more powerful faster hellcat Eloy cars and they want the exact opposite direction right they made it more of just kind of a pushin efficient you know it had one exhaust versus dual exhaust they completely toned it down and everybody in the subaru community went like oh we're tapping out of this it took him exactly one year one year every designer do we design it now now this model did stay though they did have it but they called it I believe the GT later on and then they had that WRX had the fender blisters and everything else and that was one of their ways of compensating such a mellow design yeah I know I mean it was just like it was like you know sometimes you just get the wrong car at the wrong time and sometimes you get the right car at the wrong time and this may have been the right car it was just the wrong time and there are a couple other issues to think about first of all reselling this car good luck it does not maintain its value like other Subaru products which are quite good yeah and there's an interesting phenomenon that happens on Craigslist cuz I cruise Craigslist quite a bit or bring a trailer and there are a lot of cars that are actually very inexpensive and you think to yourself this is a hub of Argan the WRX it's so cheap but there's a reason it's so cheap and you know mm all right god Nathan what's next it is the 2003 to 2010 Porsche Cayenne first gen right a very first generation Jeep you can get those things for almost 10,000 now there's a reason there is a need for one thing the active suspension system is prone to not working every every year every air suspension eventually fails eventually fails us right and it's extraordinarily expensive to fix or replace another thing to consider is the fact that this is the first generation of this field class such newer generations have different looks and resale for higher values just having standard work done on this vehicle is extraordinarily expensive there's a saying there's nothing more expensive than a cheap Porsche machine because because you can buy a very inexpensive Porsche but the first repair you have to do on it well actually actually it's more than that this portion of suspension was integrated into the engine so the the to work as one which sounds great which sounds very advanced until you have to work on the engine and if you have to work on the engine in a lot of cases you have to drop the suspension which makes let's say a 500 dollar repair into a $4,000 past now he's talking about components from the suspension it's not talking about the whole axle front yeah the friends yeah the front you have to drop the suspension to get at the engine which is which is not inexpensive at Porsche mechanic crisis I'm gonna stay with German cars and go to the next one on day number 7 and I think a lot of us have because they're in Colorado there's a lot of these yep 99 305 out er oh this is the first gen I'll road beast on the a6 wagon I loved that car I did too I thought I saw that was the coolest car the coolest car they had a third row seat option too yeah it was insanely cool car and what's your attention one of my my father's one of his best friends owned one and what he told me was by the time he was done with this car after about seven years he could have bought two of them yeah he it was constantly in the shop there had many issues once again air suspension major issue turbocharger issues just just issue after issue and it was a fun car when it was working properly mmm-hmm but when it wasn't working it was costly yeah you know it was one of those cars that you wish they brought over and then they did and then you were like I wish they hadn't brought it over and I think it left such a bad taste in people's mouths it's the current a6 Allroad you can't even get right they don't bring it over yeah only bring the airport which is are all and it's a shame because it was crazy-cool actually a friend of mine who bought one and we decided to take it off roading up in Montezuma Colorado and had a very expensive todo because these tires were definitely not operated and so he punched the tire sidewall and he had to have a tow truck actually come up there and get him so it was it was one of those cars that was crazy cool but my god that engine was crap the suspension was crap pretty much everything was was poorly designed speaking of crap yeah let's go to the next one yeah shout out by the way so number six is the 1999 to 2004 Land Rover Discovery - the reason why I want this one to be up on that screen is because I owned a first edition not this that's a good one the first edition was clean it was solid and relatively easy to fix so the disco on would this go to like completely different they look similar but they're not not no bolts match up I mean they are very different products but they look alike except for the whites and Tails yeah this one's a little bit more finished it's a little bit wider a little thicker altogether it did well new it was a pretty decent vehicle a road well and it went off-road but progressively down the line the vehicle was extremely expensive to maintain one of the things once again their suspension absolutely terrible air suspension system if you look at one today I almost guarantee that they'll have at least one new air suspension system put in there he goes all fail on the disco twos so one of them is here suspension yeah so people pull that out and they put coils in right that's right yeah yeah and they would overheat they would warp and they would warp so your engine was gone and the third amigo is the ABS and you'll see one of those three lights on maybe yes could be one of two things it could be like a pump which is very expensive or it could be a sensor which isn't but you don't know until you get into it right and then you have to take it to a Land Rover and yeah the bottom line is that these vehicles are extremely expensive to maintain they may be cheap to buy but don't let that fool you if you have to buy one of these either by the first generation or the third generation where they dressed a lot in fact that this co2 is so bad whatever thing you have to get rid of the name for like a long time there's something wrong right the other thing that I think you know is that the disco one actually had the running gear from a defender yes so it had the you know the the four-wheel drive system of a defender so it was crazy good offroad this not so much not so much all right let's move on next on the list yes it's the Chevy HHR if you remember it here this 2006 through 2011 and they have different versions of this vehicle but it's basically kind of a retro style hatchback which was cool in concept but an execution was was poor it was just radley engine issues it was just not a very well-built car I have a little bit of experience with this car because my brother had one of these which was assigned to him by his office and he had to drive around and out and yeah he actually lost weight and sort of Gaunt his hair started falling out and it was just because of this car you couldn't see out of it when he drove it now I've driven the SS version of it now first of all guys yes the PT Cruiser came out before this so General Motors copied the PT Cruiser but they're hard to see out of they've had engine issues yes the SS version basically had the Cobalt SS powertrain in it and it was quick but once again can't see out of it when you're flying down the highway at 130 miles per hour bottom line is that this is one of those vehicles that if you can avoid it I highly recommend you do moment in time where all the manufacturers were going retro no kind of a really bad we like the new Thunderbird is one of those right the PT loser is some people will call it there's just a lot of these kind of cars that stylistically look old and it was like it just felt like your people are trying to relive their youth in a helpful way are you trying to say these vehicles are hated yes yes which means where I'm gonna end up owning one to go him no please don't buy one what yeah okay number four on the list of the 2007 to 2012 dodge caliber or as Roman likes to call it the Calibra Oh bf G's no I know it really doesn't um this is another vehicle I have experienced what was one of the first vehicles I had to do right up for ya when I became a journalist and it was so hard to write that thing because I tried to find something positive to say about it I literally could not and at a terrible power train it had a horrible interior it was absolutely and positively one of the worst cars built at the time and here's the thing a lot of you may not know the platform for this vehicle underpinned the Patriot and the Jeep Compass back then and also it is a component that is shared with some Hyundai products as well it's so sexy Nathan you know but what about cutting here 34 I drove that I went to a track event and drove it and nothing quite like having tons of horsepower we're talking I think it was 285 horsepower yeah and when you turn the wheel and you're still going straight because we yeah it was a terrible car to drive so and you're not recommended unless you can figure out a way of getting it to go straight then it's really quick so yeah dreadful vehicle terrible resale not a great car we got six minutes left boys yeah window doors windows all stopped working you know it's not such a bad thing if it's a sales the electronic oh yeah the electronic because Lucas still electronics are British vehicles notorious yeah yeah sure absolutely absolutely we got we got a couple things coming up around the corner yeah all right well let's continue and finish up this list okay number three on the list is actually I'm kind of torn on but it's the 2004 or oh six through eight v8 I mean VW Touareg v10 TDI diesel which is a diesel Touareg which was in its day with a giant v10 had so much torque I want to say it like a heavy duty truck it was yeah it was crazy 253 pounds feet of torque I mean it's it's just you know truck Territory was really awesome but then of course the repairs the alternator well the promise it put they put this huge engine into this little tiny space yes and so far it was all wound to work on you know so for instance if the alternator goes you have to pull the engine which once again takes a $300 job and makes it into a $3,000 job it's crazy so they're super cool but they are technically sophisticated you need special like Bay's to work on them and yeah it's just you know it's it's a car that I love but God help you fuel one number two number two is one of my favorite vehicles and one that I'm really sad that's on this list but it's inevitable and that is a 2004 to 2008 Mazda rx-8 one of the best handling cars I've ever driven very neutral and balanced pretty much Mazda recalling the engine found this one because there was not another engine that's why there are no more Reuter is because they pollute because they basically have to have oil to any soil yeah to lubricate the apex seals and in this engine there was not enough oil injection into it so it would basically fail we have a hundred thousand miles engine with water yeah they and you can replace the apex seals but that's not cheap you literally have to pull the engine out you might as well just replace it at that point yeah unfortunately and that was one of the many reasons why you're not seeing rotaries today although rumor has it they're bringing back a row you can get one for like 4k yeah as long as somebody's taking care of it or is he fine with the replaced engine yes also uh not very easy to get in and out of this car with all people no no it's not um for Roman he has to cut his hair short just to get in what's cool though is that you are able to put like kids in the backseat or golf clubs so that's pretty cool and once again great handling car not a lot of power let's move on to number one Andre go for it number one is just one year of this vehicle 2013 Nissan Pathfinder with a CVT transmission theme from now on yeah so CBT I'm not great and there was actually a lawsuit it has to do was some of the failures it was a time to action lousy a lot of people went in on there and I think Nissan did something also interesting because right they had you know body-on-frame than unibody body-on-frame and this was the next iteration of the unibody vehicle for the Pathfinder and it has a cool off-roading name yeah that finder but it turned into the cool nickname right hey what's the nickname what's this ball give me a shoutout don't say it I I didn't ask you first what is it what's the nickname anybody get there well you guys are looking for the nickname just understand that one of the issues of this vehicle in terms of off-roading is the fact that it really is an all wheel drive wagon and I mean can we agree on that and then on top of that not a lot of ground clearance not a very good break over angle bottom line is that they made a very nice family hauler that off-road didn't do what the old Pathfinder did I know that because I own the Pathfinder and I absolutely love it because it can go hell no you know I have the previous generation which was basically a truck and it had absolutely about the same amount of horsepower almost the same amount of torque we got the student but they're very different why I thought you were waiting for somebody there's a bonus though the bonus neither to the bonus the bonus is the mini hatch just a mini cooper the CVT with the CVT and yes they did have a CVT and it was 100% bad yeah the failure rate of the CVT was 100% on these pretty much they all failed and if you guys what it's not the first generation it's a first generation under beam I've been new of the new meaning my BMW and if you got the the one with the not but not the Cooper but the moment the CVT base model it failed yep ever shut up yeah the mall finders with their collar you can find them all it can find them all and it can venture through this park right we have one minute boys okay so one minute left and we accepted a picture of the day let's find out right so and time to give away one of these hats so people who can guess this correctly and email us at info at TfL car comm we'll get one of these houses what we're playing for we have a Chevy hat we have a Titan hat we have a Honda head oh it's all black we have a g-pack yes sir and we have a Mazda hat so that's one of these let us know your guests yeah what's know which one of these you want and the first person once again email us at info info at TF all car calm yeah we'll get this and it doesn't do any good if you put in the comments you won't win the hand oh yeah you will get credit for it well guys thank you for joining us any final comments but five headlights better than 400 guys thanks for joining us for this beta version of TF on that live we're gonna do it every day except for Wednesday at 10:00 a.m. mountain time which is of course 11 o'clock central noon for all Eastern folks nine o'clock on the California coast yeah and tomorrow we're coming back with ask mr. trek episode Truckee show tomorrow Treasurer in Truckee yeah so bring your questions all your towing question axle racial questions we're gonna be here for a while he loves questions about his boots by the way just so you know so we're gonna be answering all of your questions on how to tow on how to set up towing rigs and we're just gonna have fun so keep in mind that if you're watching this live you've gotten the chance to interact with

Channel: TFLnow

Views: 211,544

Keywords: top 10, used cars to avoid, Land Rover Discovery, Chevrolet HHR, Mini, CVT, Mazda RX-8, Subaru Impreza, Honda Civic, Audi Allroad, Porsche Cayenne, Dodge Caliber, Volkswagen Touareg

Id: bc2uxX3BSGM

Length: 30min 41sec (1841 seconds)

Published: Mon Feb 12 2018