Bruising Encounter With Peter Jones Over Technology Rights | Dragons' Den

next to face the Dragons a business partners Charles Burr and Jerry Krylov who think there'll be a hard-hitting combination in the den it'll go a few rounds then eventually close a little knock out maybe yeah well we're true fighters of the Dragons you know obviously not [Music] I'm Charles burr now I'm Jerry kryla and we are the co-founders of corner we're here today to ask you the dragons for 50,000 pounds in return for 5% of our boxing technology business in the UK in the States there are over 22 million boxing participants however unlike running and cycling they have no means of tracking their performance and this is why we have come up with Corner corner is a simple wearable device that consists of an app and two sensors that sync together seamlessly so as Jack will start boxing all of those punches come in real-time so everything from his speed his power his technique and his work rate quano LRRP at $79.99 we all target our customers by using social media advertising referral schemes and by working with key influential boxers and coaches as brand ambassadors we've already done this on a small scale during our pre-order campaign where we've secured 500 pre-orders today the fitness market offers clear and immediate routes to scalability by working with major gym chains as well as boxing license classes with manufacturing set to begin this month we are now here looking for your investment in order to power corner into the UK market and then rapidly grow the business thank you very much and if you'd like to give the technology demo feel free you want your man to show you so get some gloves up get some more power pounds it's a pitch with punch from Charles Burr and Jerry krylova who are offering 5% of their boxing performance tracker in return for 50,000 pounds no clear winner there but the gloves are off as touka Suleiman gets ready for a verbal spar with the boxing app creators right guys charleon cherry yeah what's the connection between you two basically this project start off as my university project I'm an amateur boxer myself and at the end of that project we developed a prototype at the time Jerry was actually subletting the house that I was staying in in London yeah you can sell this Paris at this point we kind of discussed some of the ideas I really love what I do I love the design and we decided that we'd make a really great team so do you guys got a day job or this is your job this is a full-time full-time since since June 2015 so I'm assuming you've raised money elsewhere yes really so when we started the business we organized like a launch in Las Vegas and that went well after that we went on to basically raise on the on the go a little bit hearing how much we've raised 300 mm how much money you got left have we spent no have you got in the bank today physical cash to me 200,000 you've still got 200,000 it's good let's just talk about the actual market that you're targeting you mentioned 22 million between UK and US but let's talk about the UK market so how big is it really the market size for just our initial target market between the US and UK would be about just 13 to 14 million no what's the UK market 400,000 400,000 such a huge difference because you tried to rap in the US and UK and said 14 million so if it's just professional boxers that your target is not just professional boxers okay if it's not professional boxers if it's everyday person who's into fitness say like me my trainer comes and I do a bit of boxing at home I don't need to know what sort of speed I'm hitting it as long as he showing me the right technique that's right but you could say the same thing about cycling apps before they came to fruition and now people won't go for a cycle without quoting their data yeah but I would only box with the with the trainer there or if I go to the gym to have an app as well is a bit of overkill especially for an amateur how we aim to target that customer like yourself is not by working with you individually is by working with the gyms for example that the CEO of boxercise he said having a screen in in a class like that really people coming back accuse people motivate he's 100% behind his product some deft footwork from the entrepreneurs as they survive about with days Levani which reveals some big-name industry fans but next in the ring is denn investor heavyweight peter jones who's looking for some answers on the tech behind the gadget the circuitry in that product is it completely wholly owned in terms of the IP or have you taken an existing product Hokkien for the sensor technology we're working with another business they've basically upgraded their design to fit our application so you don't own it now so we we they will own the background technology and will only upgrade on the licensing I think he would have been far better to have spent two years in research and development to come out with a me-too product that would compete rather than taking a product that now the IP and value is owned by someone else that doesn't really give you a proper foothold and give you longevity what I would say is that the value is not in just the hardware so this hardware is available everywhere every phone's got a sensor in every everything you knows fitbit's there's all these gadgets the software we believe the values in the software and how easy is it to replicate software we've been working on this software for four years in order to get to a point now where we have the simplest technical solution so just give me the headlines then of what you think this business can deliver in year one we think that we can hit four hundred thousands worth of sales then followed by two million in the second year and then six million in the third year and take levels and girls profit grow to give one yet so that would be three hundred thousand a net profit for year one there would be a small loss in the first year Oh what do you cost about five five thousand let's focus on that first year then so four hundred thousand of sales in the first year is how many units yeah that's for five thousand devices five thousand devices yeah and let's just go back to you produce these at what cost so we'd be making a 70 percent profit margin I didn't ask you that I said what's the cost of them well 18 pounds 18 pounds you're saying that quite quietly we need to do the numbers you've bought them in at 18 and sold them for $79.99 mm-hmm that is a big gross profit margin 60 pound of customer so therefore out of your 5,000 units that you're selling year 1 how many are you assuming gold direct to the consumer where you make the biggest Marjorie I mean for the financial model we just kept it simple in terms of just saying how many you've got a lot of words guys and not a lot of numbers so how many is it hot verify the numbers are based on a hundred percent obviously well not obviously you need to tell me if the model we've done is as a hundred percent but we don't we believe it would be more closer to 5050 in terms of wholesale price at 45 so it would reduce your margin obviously so that's reasons then wouldn't be 300 would it well yes that's right yeah right so you're saying three hundred thousand girls profit seventy percent but you're already telling me that that's not really going to happen Jenny Campbell punches a hole right through the pears ambitious projections but meanwhile Deborah Medan is wrestling with her passion for the sport I've been to two boxing matches in my life and I don't know why I went in the second one I actually hated it but I doesn't stop me getting a market and understanding and actually I like your thinking I'm not gonna be critical of your thinking and I love that you came up with this probably started as a project and then you thought I've got something here but I absolutely totally guarantee you but when you go to produce this you will have to spend more money you will find something that's not working I promise you and I'm not sure that there's the full pack of knowledge between you to actually really maximize on this so I won't be investing thanks for ppreciate on that Deborah Medan is first to reject the boxing innovation anticipating a need for more cash down the line and tuka Suleiman is wondering if the device would be better suited to an altogether different type of platform I mean the problem you've got is your scream it's boring it could be anything it could actually be useless station next train is coming at 6:55 to Manchester right quite boring I think you sell a few but I think you've got a long way to go and wish you all the best guys but I'm not gonna invest in this project and I'm out thank you [Music] guys let me tell you where I am you're not clear at all about how you're bringing this to market its professionals it's amateur it's the website it's consumer and you're really not hot on your numbers at all this is just way too flimsy at the moment this is not stacking up as the business investment so for that reason I'm out thank you the main concept of what your product does those rights and that IP is owned by someone else and somebody watching this and thinks it's a great idea we'll actually look at this and do it and bring it out to market before you can so I'm gonna wish you well on your way I'm out thanks very much guys thank you after a hard-fought battle in the den the duo are finally out for the count feel like I should give up you came out well it started the first few rounds very nicely definitely took a few hits so yelled smelly we didn't win this one but you can't win every fun you you

Channel: Dragons' Den

Views: 1,321,467

Rating: 4.8140759 out of 5

Keywords: bbc iplayer, british tv, watch uk tv online, watch british tv online, dragons, den, best, new, series, worst, pitches, funniest, moments, most, shocking, ideas, products, businesses, peter jones, deborah meaden, dragons den worst pitches, dragons den funny, dragons den series 17, dragons den 2019, shark tank, shark tank 2019, new dragons den, new shark tank, sara davies, tej lalvani, touker suleyman, Shark Tank, New Episode, Series 17

Id: OACmaT5_5V0

Length: 11min 43sec (703 seconds)

Published: Fri Sep 20 2019