BRIAN FALLON: Come to Where I'm From Podcast Episode #79

hi this is Joseph Arthur thanks for checking out come to where I'm from please support us on patreon patreon comm slash come to where I'm from we are an independent podcast and any contributions you can make are greatly appreciate you I like them yeah yeah it gets you inside Oh inside you in the thing which I don't mix you're in like a I instantly changed yeah my perspective went yeah you into the matrix yeah you go yeah so how's it going with you it's good man yeah you decided I am excited you should be high enough yeah yeah song sounds great thank you yeah love it I'm excited yeah I love the concept thank you the 21 days thing yeah people who battle addiction know that [ __ ] really well I think yeah I think it 21-day landmark people always they're always throwing that I couldn't tell you how many therapists said that to me like well kinda yeah that's where it started that's not a name yeah like they they all threw it out there and like I went to like I wanted to I program they even quit smoking yeah I need to do that I'm back on nicotine with the vape okay I'm not smoking real cigarettes but the vape I don't know what that's gross yeah it's future yeah yeah it's like the nicotine keeps coming back it's I gotta get rid of 86 it got a wrestling wrestle that diamond I wrestle it yeah you know I went to yoga today I'm like that's it yeah the devil and the angel are on both shoulders you're good at that yoga I'll tell you what yeah that's good that I need that's my therapy yeah I gotta get on the yoga I've been on the cookies too long yeah try to quit them siggy sam-7 whatever in my mouth yeah how long has it been since a cigarette year Wow congratulate you so it's been like just a year so I'm like all hey yeah you know what messes me up is when it's easy yeah when I get over it easy and then like two weeks later I'm like that was easy I could just like bend a little and then but it always catches you back up yeah that if it's too easy I think you could fall back in yeah quick so congratulations thinking that yeah and then correlating that with like a relationship I think is kind of brilliant I just I had this idea when I heard it so many times through all the different things and I was just like this can't just be about this like you can't can't just be about getting away it has to be about other things too so it's sort of my mind opened up and then it was like oh wait it could be about all these things right you know and that kind of I don't know and then I kind of like helped me I was putting my energy of being miserable you know into a song and create something productive and positive yeah you know I know what you did yeah I was conscious about not even I was I'm really trying to be conscious about even though I might be miserable not creating more misery I feel like if I make art that's just complaining then that's gonna just spread that misery when yeah but if I turn it could turn that around I find that a lot of times I cheer someone else up but I also end up tearing myself up which is a unique thing to me I didn't know that that was we're not unique it's a surprising thing to me because I didn't know this before well words are really powerful I mean like first there was the word I mean you know so it's like hey and songs are voodoo they're magic so like there's a lot of times I've like written negative things that have come to pass in my songs and vice versa I feel that big time yeah that has happened right my mother actually called me on that one time what she said she said she heard a song that I had written many years ago and she said I knew you weren't happy and I was like and then I end up few years later I ended up getting going divorced the whole thing and I was like I never saw that coming right your subconscious is way ahead yeah how it's way ahead of you and it's revealing yeah but it's too spooky to really take in the information so we just walk around with blinders on half it's I don't know what's going on even though deep down we do know it's jazzy that is true how it you mind knows things yeah I wonder if there was a way that you could stop you know and separate for a second like imagine if you could live like a week that's my vision your subconscious oh I see what you like it like if only your subconscious thoughts where the thoughts that you chose to allow out and speak about and that your immediate thoughts you you made like a deal with yourself mmm like I'm not saying anything that's immediate mmm I wonder what would happen I don't even know if that's possible I feel like that is what songwriting is I feel like this is the songwriting voice is that sub consciousness or the artistic voice kind of originates from the subconscious I agree I wasn't able to get in any sort of tapping into that on purpose kind of without writing I guess they call it stream of consciousness but mine is more just like any thought I have I'll just start typing like all these words and things like if I'm like I hate that dog outside this barking right now and I'll just like type everything out and then all of a sudden one of those thoughts fifty blinds later will be something no oh wait what's that that's interesting and then you can try and like start you Stephen King and his book that on writing he says you got to dig around the idea with the spoon it's like digging up dinosaur bones with a spoon mm-hmm and you're like a little bit at a time don't chase it away that's a good one it's really good it's it is a magic thing that happens with songwriting yeah you create something out of nothing yeah that other that resonate with other people yeah that's the biggest thing yeah well we're all one it's true at least that's what that's what the spiritual leaders say yeah you know what we need to learn how to do I think when we're stuck with the songwriting I need to learn I do is I mean they say if you're creating something out of nothing last time somebody created something had nothing took a rest on the sixth seventh day mm-hmm I don't take no rests I need to take a rest yeah you know when you get in it you start working and you just like you're sitting there arguing with the typewriter everyday yeah step away for a second let your mind breathe yeah I gotta let him do that that your process typewriter not really just computer well have you heard of it have you heard of the artist way yes yeah like the morning pages Oh what you're talking about because the concept is you just write three pages straight up like off the top of your head yeah and you first wake up and just not to try to write something good but just write you know yeah blah blah blah blah I suck whatever you know whatever it I do that though I'm like Green is better than yellow bro you know I don't like the read O's like yeah but that's what you get to the thing I think it's it's easy when you're 22 and you're maybe maybe especially if you're 22 years old and you're out of your mind you waste it or something you think all kinds of crazy ideas to write down on paper that sounds smart well then when you as that rocket fuel wears off and you find yourself you know in your thirties and forties and whatever you and you actually have to be creative like you have to be talented or else that's it mmm sit down cuz there's young people coming up and by talented you mean like dedicated and focused on it I mean good like for you know you have to be good at what you do like you have to have learned something right you know and and that's the biggest struggles to believe that you at some point are good and that's really hard and how have you done that I think I've done it you don't know I feel like you've done it I think that the hardest thing for me is to like I can't hear I like a filter that doesn't hear praise it goes in my ear and out that without the other way immediately but negative stays it like sticks like glue so I I think I'm constantly driven towards that thing of myself deciding that something I've done is good mmm you know I mean so that's what me kind of like still taking piano lessons and guitar lessons like I know how to play guitar but I'm still taking lessons why I don't know yeah cuz I'm going for something right but I heard you talk in another interview about like how art is subjective and it's hard to know if anything's good or not but like through time you have learned that like some things that you've done are good because they've been embraced yeah yeah the current is more heart is more than hard more difficult yeah because you when you're doing it right then there's no simmering time and but the past you can kind of look at it and go like I well people like that that's probably good yeah you know distance is easier to do who produced this new record Peter Cadis so he he was a friend actually a friend of Matthew Ryan and Craig Finn they they were like you should do a record with Peter cater song I was like he done the national right and I was like okay how would that go and then he ended up like wanting to talk on the phone so we just talked and he said why don't you just come up here and try it and he's right up in Connecticut so he's like just try a song he's like if we don't like it there's no throw it away that's cool let's do it right so then we did it and it worked really well like he he's cool what song was that Vincent yeah we tried that one first and and all I had was the piano and vocal on a demo on my iphone I played it and then he kind of said like what if we make it like you know put drums on it and like have all these sounds going on and I was like crazy you only talk about the piano song and you know I was thinking about it like that but then I said all right let's just try it you know whenever like your first cases the hate oh just delete it never listen to it again and it turned out to be really good and he he turned out to be really inspiring to work with cuz he's coming from another plane like he's not concerned about pop music at all right you know which I was raised on pop music he's what concerned about just making art art he's thank you he is the art the art is the highest order for him like he is just about creating new sounds and new ways about going out things and and the biggest thing he said is he's like you got to keep the sad in it mmm even if you're right in a happy song there's got to be the sad in it and I really could relate when he said that like I feel like something in in me related to that sentiment so well that I couldn't describe my whole life and I was like yes that's all about keeping the sad I mean it's the thing that you just feel in the moment in the moment you just say like there would be times where you play an instrument and you hear a sound and you'd be like well that's cool and he'd be like nah takes a sad out of it and then I would reanalyze it from that perspective and go oh yeah I could see that mm-hmm it's okay and then we would try to find something else hmm whatever pulled your your you know your heartstrings like that that sentiment that's what had to remain reminds me of Leonard Cohen talking about how his guru told him to make it sadder that's when he would sing yeah say like make it more heartbreaking I like that and then Leonard wrote that album you want it darker yeah that's the way to do it yeah you got to keep it said yeah keep digging in there and so deep and your solo tour with Craig fan-inspired this solo stuff didn't it or is that am I getting that right yeah cuz well I never I never thought that that could could or I could do that just go out with nothing and then and keep people interested why because I think I'd never done it I'd always seen I'd seen people do it very wrong and then I'd see people do it very right and then and keep people engaged and I was like all right you know here we go let's see if this is gonna gonna work at all because at the time too I had just finished that 59 sound tour and I had I hadn't written the new record so I was like I didn't know what to do but you know the bills don't take a vacation so I got a I got a work and I was like I want to go play by myself and clear my head no I'm just gonna do this and then with Craig it was good because Craig is used to this and so he's sort of a mentor to you a little bit little bit you know so a frontman of a big band just like you yes similarities are very his solo acoustic stuff in The Hold Steady are just such a massive band just like The Gaslight Anthem yeah he had like I felt like he sort of like had like I know I'm gonna older brother like he had already been down the path so I could he could maybe you know show me the way and and he was a real helpful light in the last couple years I tell you what my god he would call me out of nowhere and just be like hey one time I had this like we played a show together I had like a bad time I was going through was right when I was going through like get divorced and like I just like I was like you know what the hell with this like I just had I didn't freak out or anything no no breakdown but I was like nah I just wasn't into it at this this show and and he called me this kind of thing yeah yeah I don't really let it out in the public you know I try to keep my breakdowns private but he um he called me that the next day and he was like y'all right and I was like nah man I was like I don't like any of this this isn't what I I don't think I signed up for this you know know how I got because everything felt so disconnected getting everything my personal life the music everything and he really was like you know he didn't know me like we just knew each others from like hey what's up Band cool you know I like your records cool like that I was just a fan I was like you write cool words Craig Finn is he's though he's a guru and a great dude yeah really good dude oh yeah he was good hang you know I'm fun yeah so anyway so he called you up he's like what's up yeah he's like what's up man he's like you all right and I'm like you know about I'm like just the fact that he called and asked I was like yeah okay nobody else calling ask you people probably assume that you got it together they probably assumed that that I just don't care about it or like didn't you know was disengaged from whatever kind of thing they assume that when you're in like if you're doing well they assume you're successful yeah which is utterly wrong yeah you know and it's funny too because even the level of perceived success it's like you know my band got very big but like I don't own a Porsche you know I mean like we missed the cutoff man right we didn't get the Rock and Roll money yeah in the 90s all these sub pop bands got signed in that I look up to and they're like they're like we don't only go on tour four days a year and I'm like how you living on money and they're like we got that advanced back in 92 and I got to get that advance right so I was like it's easy to be but then that leads to the thing of its it's easy to say no to things when you don't you know you don't want to pay the bills right you know it's easier yeah like I always talk about that with as far as like meal Young's policy I'm selling out and stuff like yeah easy for Neil Young to say you know I know cuz especially to sometimes like you know that that money can facilitate making more art like you know what I mean and if you gotta like focus on I don't know working at Starbucks yeah that's not art time no and that's the thing you can make a lot of choices when you have that freedom that you don't have to please anybody like if I put out a record that somebody doesn't like and the album doesn't sell and the venue's don't want to book me my I gotta figure out how to feed my kids right like Neil Young gonna have to figure that out right even if he never does anything right he already figured he's already got some people already figured it out because you can tell when artists get to that point when they're just like I don't care yeah cuz they do what they want all right like that's cool it's respectable but it's better don't preach to me about how you can make choices like I don't have my songs and commercials cool I got to keep the lights on so I do yeah so holler at your boy if you got a commercial you need music for ya and if he's not available I got a couple jams myself so wait but you like your mom was a folk musician yeah yeah she came from so you kind of came from a musical background or what your folks do yeah but my dad wasn't around he went in the picture oh so it's just my mom but she would uh she had this like nylon string acoustic guitar that she would just play and sing songs all the time huh so it was like hymns and then protest music also were you raised religiously yeah my mom was like my mom was like big into that whole like I've come to the end of my rope I found Jesus thing and my mom wasn't about it down with that yeah she came to my room I don't know Jesus found me back there yes the only thing I'm still waiting for me back he's got a weird cell phone number like he keeps changed mailbox is full like I remember going to church is like it's like it literally like it probably three or four years old like one of my first memories and like there was some sad looking people at this church mm-hmm walking in they but they would get happy and it was like a small church like it would probably like the size of this room yeah and everybody was always talking about I used to get drunk every day and I don't drink no more you know I'm happy about that and you'd see they were genuinely happy and I remember that seeing it seeing that but there was no snake hole it was nothing so it but it was like one of those old-school vibes and they're old to him you know the piano within the organ that made funny noises and like then they would sing the hymn and you'd be like all right like somebody's dialing into something did that affect you like emotionally the hearing that music was at your first emotional reaction to music was in the environment big time like I think that those old really old hymns you know that that was the first time I was like something here is better than this everything else yeah what is that noise my feeling feeling I'm having yeah you know what I mean and I was curious and I'd always so she'd never have to drag you you'd want to go to church I didn't want to go to church I didn't say that I just said I liked the music she had to drag me a little bit but my mom was like you know she would go on like Wednesday night too it was that kind of crowd right so she was in she was in she was she was not yes she was influence she would go to work and she counted properly yes no yeah yeah nice so she says I think that sometimes that it's a it's a thing that she's done life long and then I don't know having that sort of upbringing it puts you in a different I don't know you you sort of feel like empathetic towards the whole world and yourself a little bit because you're like her whole thing is like nobody nobody gets this right that's why I need you know she would always say I need Jesus cuz I can't get it right and I would go I love them yeah I can't get it right either I can't get it right either no nobody can know and I feels like mildly comforting in a way it feels more than mildly comforting yeah to me cuz it's like if you're stuck yeah and especially when your soul is on the line you have to factor that in oh yeah yeah our souls are all aligned and somehow we know this yeah like like a gam even if we want to just deny it like whew I don't know that my soul is on the line I'm just going through the day what are you talking about but like I don't know somehow I feel like my soul's on the line yeah I don't know we'll find out we'll find out you know I mean if I find out when I'm dead that it was all wrong and there's no God and there's just a pinball machine up there I'm gonna be like hey man you know what at least I heard some good music right yeah I was like I don't know I kind of thought that that was good you know Leonard Cohen got a good song out of it it's good do you I know because I'm and I'm read that you don't really like to talk about Chris like being a Christian or anything or like or that sort of stuff because maybe it's alienating or something like this but do you are you active with that do you pray do you have a prayer like yeah yeah I mean my whole thing about why I don't like to talk about it is because there's so many fools out there you're saying [ __ ] it up weird yeah like it'd be like if everybody was like you know what I love I love coffee and then I do this and you're like wait so everybody who loves coffee does that but their voice is a lot louder than mine and you know if I say that people assume any other previous experiences with religious people yeah that I'm like that and I tell you yeah I'm not like that like I'm from I come from like the I'm the broken Jesus people I don't know what I'm doing remember the real ones I'm trying to figure it out I'm not worried about like people ask me well what do you think about this or this or that can you drink or can you do drunk yo man I don't know why you ask god I don't know right I'm trying to figure this out that's a big book that Bible a big book and I still I'm at home it's like I don't want I can't get away from this King James Version there's much easier to read translations on though but I look at it and I don't know if it's translated accurately you don't ask me about I didn't do any I go to college right what I do know is there's a lot of words in that book and I don't understand 99% right but I do understand the one where it says you you got neighbor as thyself yeah and and that that all have fallen short I'm like I'm with those two things I'm down I can do those on with those let me get those under my belt yeah that'll probably take me my whole life so let me get that under my belt and then and I don't worry about what everybody's doing wrong don't chew gum on the sidewalk you know don't spit step on a crack that kind of thing I can't worry about all that so for me I think that it unifies my experience with it is that it unifies that like a world to be empathetic because I look at it and I say well if we all are not getting it right then that means we all need each other to help yeah and so I look at it like well I'm not qualified to help you but I'm qualified to suffer next to you because I'm a human yeah and I like if I could pray for you and pray for myself yeah and I think that that's the best I could do and if it doesn't but you know I don't know I never got down with like telling people that like this is what you need to do and you know whatever you think is not right and I'm right and you're wrong I never got how me I'm not like that either can't even make eggs in the morning and that's true yeah there's no humility in that there is no humility no it's like yeah that is wise yeah I never heard it said like that I'm gonna borrow it but I'm gonna tell people you said it okay good all right thank you yeah well it's a yeah I mean I asked for forgiveness all the time I've been getting on my knees lately and praying sometimes you know and also mixed prayer with yoga because once you're on your knees then you can do like a backbend yeah open up your heart well you I do that in my shower yeah like healing you and stuff like that I play all kinds of mental games like that I am down yeah I can't move like that don't ya got to do that I see some of those photos of you moving around like that I'm like this man is my god I got I got to to but I don't well you can still young 40 years old 48 48 yeah you look great thanks dude yeah thank you you know if that's what 48 looks like I'm looking forward yeah yeah well just get into the yoga because I guess you're only as old as the shape of your spine yeah that's what they say I've heard that but so did so did you get into music through your mom then and her interest in folk music and stuff like that yeah cuz among the hymns she also listened to my mainly folk music and Jude she would tell me all the stories about what was going down so like she would you I would hear like a Bob Dylan tune and then I'll come down and be like what's this about right Newport Folk Festival why they booing him and my mom would be like check this out right and she would dial me in and I was like okay I'm like Joan Baez what's that and she would be like check this out and she would play me a tune whoa no no just only me mama Wow that's it that's amazing yeah we hung hard yeah she watched a lot of Cagney and Lacey yeah but mom so I would put my kid to bed and like he would ask me he always waits the bedtime to ask me like you know like what what is humanity mean and I'd be like oh my goodness but I remembered you know as putting him to bed I remember going to sleep in this like one one-room apartment in in Red Bank and my mom would have the TV the bed the living room was the bedroom so we would sleep on the floor and and I was looking on a mattress and I would always look up she had this dresser and a TV on top of it and every night as I was falling asleep she would be like getting ready to go to bed or whatever brushing our teeth and Cagney and Lacey be on mm-hmm and I knew that that was time to go to bed cuz Cagney and Lacey was on and I'd be like that came out about 10:00 p.m. probably up too late like I didn't know that people had danced for a while really if I did but I just didn't care yeah I can't me and Lacey and folk music what I care that's good that can be that can be an advantage in a way too it wasn't no it was good I had my grandmother was next door so I had like a good you know they did good tag-team grandfather or no grandmother no he died he died so it was gonna sort of man around I had no man around yeah it was weird there was no man's land for a long time and but I didn't I didn't know that that was I didn't know I was like this is cool I was like you fools don't get to stay up and watch Cagney and Lacey you can keep your family yeah no dad Delaware family means a lot of different things yeah you know having a mother that loves you and a grandmother next door the Lizzie that's a lot of family yeah you know if you got the love aspect yeah any parental figure I think you can carry yeah yeah people always said to me like did you feel not like you missed out I didn't feel like I missed anything right I was cool I was happy yeah you know as good and then a much later like my mom got remarried and that was cool but like but I read those early years we're like I think really formed my brain and like how I view the world mm-hmm in so many ways which I just realized right now on this podcast what do you think in what way well then whatever quote-unquote normal well there is no normal yeah but she woke because she gave me the the perspective of you know the thought of humanity as a whole life after death and that kind of thing and like she was kidding yeah taught me a world consciousness at a young age and then also at the same time she was having me think about like these issues you know you wouldn't lay it on heavy I was young but she would tell me about like the world the songs and how they related to the things that were going on and she would tell me about like when Kennedy was assassinated where she was what that meant you know and and how and then she would show me the songs you know and be like check it out Martin Luther King hears his song Abraham Martin and John this is who she's talking about this is who he's talking about Dion you know like and all this in education big education hard core and it was like she won out in it yeah and so I think that like well yeah one that mattered on a lot of levels because that's the Jesus thing too it's like you're teaching a kid that it's okay that they don't live up to whatever thing is in their head that's that that's huge you teach a kid that and that they can then ask for help and ask for forgiveness or whatever like that's massive yeah there and then also the music thing that that's massive - yeah I really did help I think that that was it for those early years where I could have just taken that put my life well it seems like you have yeah I pretty much didn't like school or anything what you did I did when did you so you started writing songs you were 10 right yeah 10 yeah but I was inspired like oh you know my friend and I we had we had started to listen we would buy any tape that we could get our hands on so a lot of time is Guns and Roses or whatever I like yeah we listen to that and anyway you know be like but then I thought this is too hard I can't play guitar like that I can't write these song I don't have a piano I mean no I'm like this is not working out and then I sort of went back to where my mom showed me more the folk yeah and I was like whew okay you know and I could find artists you know at the time I remember like Tracy Chapman being out with fast car yeah and I was like okay I'm like I could so people are actually still doing this it's not just from the 60s like this is a thing and then I and and then I kind of pursued it and just like once I found that though songwriting I was like friends I'm out mmm I was out I tell people that a lot - it's like once you access your imagination through music it's it's a wrap so it's like what like if you're just trying to like learn [ __ ] and figure things out okay that's one thing that's cool that can occupy you a bit once you access your imagination and start like being able to like create through music it's a wrap totally like no more soccer team like Wendy Wendy Kurt Cobain died 93 No so I was 14 I remember figuring it out I remember the moment I figured it out yeah because I was doing in art class and they were like you got to do a portrait of somebody and I took that photo of him sitting in the studio his hand on his face right after he died I think it was a cover of Rolling Stone mm-hmm and I it was a black on my photo and I tried to like draw it you know I painted or whatever and I remember like being in the art class and being like and something struck me at that moment that like you can like this guy's gone that's that created like art for a living and that that dawned on me at that moment whereas he didn't look that different than my friends mmm you know and I was like this is the guy who made the flannels that my parents dressed me in there were had holes in them cool like I used to get made fun of and then next year err the the kids in school where it's not making fun of me and they thought I looked cool hmm and I was like wait a minute something's in here and then I just I hauled away it wasn't getting gone I was out friends could care less party could care less nothing nothing was more important than to be focused yeah kinda she wasn't like a hundred percent she was she was in she was into it like she was she was into it but but I don't think maybe she was more like you're not really gonna do that for a career like she was like didn't want me to get disappoint you almost didn't believe it could be done probably cheap well I mean averages would say yeah yeah that doesn't mean she's a monster Freddie for having doubt she's a monster I loved your mom until this moment she's a mom I thought see yeah that was the thing she was just like I don't know you know if this is gonna be cool and then we had a real talk when I was about 19 and I was like I'm not going to college you know like I gotten accepted to school and I was like maybe I'll go you know do do art and and that's what I'll do and and then it was like I don't want to do this I wanna be in a band yes she was like whoa you need to get a skill son hmm you know you gotta eat and I was just like and then you know but she still supported me and then like and my stepdad - he went out and I had this like clunker guitar and like I was going on tour with my friend's band filling in and like that one of the frets sunk tonight before we leave in my my set that marched me right out to that Sam Ash and he's like which one and I picked one and it was a like a black Les Paul like how much it cost and he was like you're paying me back but for now that's awesome yeah he's like you're working this off that's all yeah he's like but for now you're leaving tomorrow go do it like good upbringing yeah it was pretty supportive yeah you know but on another level though because I just know for myself where my crazy drive came from songwriting and all that a meeting to like succeed in this and like you know that old thing I didn't throw that focus and you're talking about but I know for me that did not necessarily come from a nice place yeah I don't think mine did either right because I think that I was trying to please the dad that wasn't around is the thorn in the flesh yes right the god-sized hole right so the drive did not come from a holy place now you know I mean XO like support and also complete abandonment yeah that is like the best ingredients for a future rock and roll super mother dies early or the father doesn't like you to you know yeah bound to be famous [Laughter] the book is written so doing that all right not so much like I feel like you know the kids are taking over that you know as far they're they're pretty good therapy opening your eyes to stuff but uh bright soon you know would check in from now and now and then I check in but yeah not like daily like I was doing you know really how many kids do you have - two yeah nice so boy and a girl yeah boy seven and a girl three and a half right about there before Wow yeah Julie thank you yeah yeah but you know they're they're fun too they I don't know it they it they strangely enough gave a huge like boost to my life being like because most people like you know I didn't have a dad so I don't know what to do but I knew exactly what to do because I had my mom and my grandmother and like I was just like oh yeah like you guys are now now I have a reason beyond success or failure to be alive and have a purpose mm-hmm like I have a purpose now that doesn't matter what XYZ magazine says about my Leah's song right and that gave me freedom which is very good not entirely but it was liberating very much yeah because like now you you're you know I would always put my worth in the work that I out who is putting out because obviously you're trying to please this intangible thing that you don't have mm-hmm so which will never be satisfied and then now I have an alternate purpose and I was like okay wait a minute now I can do something that matters to the Future that has really nothing to do with me and I was like that is all right mm yeah that's cool yeah how did he how did you get sort of discovered how did that first happen to you or when did success come in or how did that come about well I think in the beginning we just we literally we were making CDs ourselves like we took the drummer had a job at the Rutgers newspaper late at night so he would do the newspaper and I took a job he said you come work at the I'll give you ten bucks an hour you come work at this thing at night it's like 11:00 to 1:00 and the more I was like done I'm there and I all I got to do I was supposed to shift the words into the columns that was my job kerning and and I would be like okay climbing yeah they call it kerning like getting the words to fit in the columns you know how like you read a newspaper and all the words are in a column okay even yeah yeah that's somebody's job really yeah I just have a computer problem yeah so like earning so worker though yeah but what we figured out is we were like looking around the room and we're like there's about nine computers in here all with CD drives I got a computer check this out this is gonna get faster so we start burning our demo making the printouts - sorry - Rutgers you know about all this but we'd start making the proud making think with some Robin Hood yeah and we just went and we were like yo we're buying this dirty van and we're going and we're calling people in the phone book and booking shows and it's called this is The Gaslight Anthem yes okay so we are you here 24 25 okay so you've been like alive on planet Earth a bit yes no because I remember when I was I didn't I got signed about 25 yeah and I remember thinking then to like cuz I was working minimum-wage jobs I never went to college either that type of [ __ ] and I was like is this coming like I'm gonna kill myself if this doesn't work you know like I'm not gonna work minimum wage right over yeah it was not good yeah so like by 24 25 you can start panicking already oh yeah I was in full panic mode okay when you're gonna get a job they would say well I would say that to me did you have any popularity at all or was it just like non bleep pipe dream at that total pipe dream right and were you writing good songs I thought so yeah but you were though like serious yeah you probably were right yeah I think that we all sort of said like okay this is something different this is good and yeah so there was belief there was and then we we went and pursued it like just went for it and that took were you getting sorry to interrupt but also getting people coming up like did you get any like positive affirmations like people like Outsiders going like damn you guys are [ __ ] good yeah at the we played at the court tavern in New Brunswick and it started to get more people in there and they started to get rowdy mm-hmm and I'd never experienced this from the stage I had been in a show but not not myself the spirit of rock and roll coming through it was big time and like you could see every show we played it got bigger and bigger and we were like we kept seeing the flyer that was I remember having that conversation where our name kept going up the flyer you know I'm higher yeah the font got bigger and we were like okay this is something happened in here and then we were just like let's wreck it all we're going on tour mmm bad idea so we just did we started doing that in like where you booked your own toured all the time many tours by ourselves booked them and we just went out and started playing in like libraries Legion halls bars like weird spots like and we just no venues there was no venue and and we played and played and played and then it you know it it was funny cuz it didn't take like that long like maybe a little over a year too and then we got a call from disband faked problems in Florida and they were on tour with against me and we went to see them and we were like yo against me like that's the most famous band ever mm-hmm you know to us it was yeah and then like about six months later we got a call from their manager and was like yo we want to go on tour with you again yeah so they took us out on tour and we were like this is it and we just did it and that that was the first move you know we I think we like a friend of ours is putting on our records like so not like a real deal like guy in his garage had a label so that was like probably like the first time you felt like you kind of were making it yeah maybe so that was the that was the first real time for us where we were like oh this might be happening you know like there's people mmm so this is cool it's a real [ __ ] what what size venues were you playing at that point well they were playing we were still playing dumps right but they were a plan they were on that record new wave so they had just signed to a major label and they were they had song on the radio everything was big for them they were playing like oh yeah so you were playing in front of thousands of people yeah about a thousand people every night receiving not that good but like the there would be 50 kids that'd be like that's cool okay so and I was like 50 is good yeah that's do 51 and then that's that's kind of how it went for we were first a three so we were like you know nobody really pay attention to us okay but we you know I think just the fact I always have this rule where it's not about the show at the festival it's just about being on the poster mm-hmm you know what I mean having your name on the posters like does more good cuz then like magazines started to be like whose has been you know like online magazine where'd you get the name from the the the venue in New York that we're about Dylan played okay that's I was throwing it always back to the folk thing where I up where where did Bob Dylan plays for a show in in New York City and it was at The Gaslight cafe and I was like songwriters go to share their ideas Gaslight Anthem sounds cool and that was it so like it's great I think Benny had to anthem and I had he said the anthem he should we should be the anthem and I was like that sounds like a tide detergent somewhere and now gaslighting has a whole other thing yeah well that's you know I've been saving that for the tweet I go with the feeling when you name your band and then it becomes an abuse tactic 20 years later yeah that's it's a crazy abuse it's I know it is a crazy abuse tactic and it's like it it is that takes effort to you got to be like a sadistic individual to sort of you don't have to not have dreams and you you have that you had to have created a false self and sort of given up on your authentic self and so therefore you you get your energy source off of the sort of angst of another that's a weird vibe it's weird but it's happens to humans and you have to also then give empathy to people that are in that predicament because they're lost in a predatory state even though they can be very dangerous you know and especially if you're unaware that that people do this type of [ __ ] that this is like human humanity like once you become aware of it and you start seeing it and how it plays out you become less susceptible to it but if you're a people pleaser and you are completely clueless to things like gas lighting and stuff like that you it can ruin your life yeah it can kill you it's bad yeah so but anyway Gaslight Anthem is still a great brand it's interesting and I was like oh man I was like did why did this have to be the one word do you know what where what where the term gas lighting came from the movie maybe gasoline yeah people used to ask me like did you name at the movie I'll say I've never even seen the movie right and then I looked up the movie and I was like that's terrible I want to name anything after that yeah and then then it it kind of I don't know it's it's an odd thing it's a good like sometimes I always wonder like you you know is there any like this body there's got to be somebody out there who's like I can't believe any other band that I mean the the terminology that needs to change is the terminology gas lighting it needs to be called something more severe I think because I think the whole terminology around MPD abuse is terrible I mean what's APD narcissistic personality order those are those are the people that employ thing tactics like such as gas lighting are called narcissistic but NART there's healthy narcissism so there can be like you like to make art you have to have healthy amounts of healthy narcissism obviously yeah but then so but also narcissism also means anything from like you know engaging in healthy narcissism making records doing a [ __ ] podcast that's healthy narcissism I like it all the way but I like trying to dismantle another and put them in there an early grave that's also called narcissism so I think like the the language around narcissism needs updated so hopefully Gaslight will I don't know become I don't know a more sort of definitive version of what it is which is like basically lying to another person yeah it's kind of lying but in a manipulative really creepy way yeah it's hard to do especially like if you don't know you know like that you're that you're in a thing like that yeah because the whole thing is it's supposed to be a mutual you think you're engaged in a mutual loving relationship but one person is engaged in a battle to put you down yeah that's the whole point is it's not it's not it's not on the level that's how it works yeah because you the thing that bothers me it kind of gives me like the creeps about that is the like I've spent a lot of time in my own life trying to figure out which you know like not like voices or anything but like the thoughts in your head like which are accurate about you uh-huh so like a lot of the times like I have a difficult time telling like like what I said about people that complimenting me it's do it I don't it's hard to separate like why whatever might what like is this am I doing this for the right reasons am i selfishly doing this in my pandering to someone like why am I doing this like what am I am I like being honest with myself like you know and my motives are like a thing that this is something I struggle with like and I wind it up in my head a lot and um the the thought that that that really bothers me the most about this whole thing and is the idea that you can live in a state where you question your reality is like whether mmm this is you know like I like we've had a conversation and I will leave with an impression zombie like that Joseph our that was a good conversation but then if if you tell me yeah I don't know man you came off kind of like weird and you came off like really selfish and like you know kind of bitter mmm and I was like wait did I really that that gives me the chills like to my horror because you are we in the same room yeah and how do you know cause people you're talking about people that do that yeah because yeah yeah because how do combat that yeah you can't like I'm a person who's you're not sure if somebody's out to [ __ ] with you yeah there is no combating it there because any energy you give to it is them winning so if you if you if you give them energy like they're the only winning is going no contact and leaving that person behind that's the only winning there's no winning if somebody's angle is that because there it's what's the analogy that it's like there are there it's their whole angle is to upset you so or any energy that they can get out of you is winning why is that fun though it's not it's it's it's showing that they're in a state of pure me they're in hell they're not happy like they're not there they're not they don't have the gift of something like songwriting of some kind of passion it doesn't have to be songwriting it could be any thing that gives you a sense of purpose they don't have that and so they're they're motivated I think primarily by envy and and and there's a lot of toxic build-up that comes out that must be translated and also they they're they're also unable to deal with their own toxic shame so what they do is they project shame Howard Lee onto like you then they will provoke you until you act shamefully and then that will verify to them like see you're the one that's ashamed it's a weird human psychological trip no that's what it is yeah and I had to study it a lot because I was affected by it in a tremendous way for a long period of time until it almost did kill me and then I like I learned about it and I studied it for a long time this is yeah and and that's you know and it's been a rebuilding of my life ever since then yeah that's scary but then also at the same time I practice ho'oponopono which is like the idea that your responsibility for everything in your field of consciousness so like and you don't want to like remain a victim of anything you want to know that like you each of us is responsible for the our own like universe basically and everything that happens within it yeah I mean I don't know that I don't know that either it's a theory oh no no what's a Kapo nope oh no the mantra I love you I'm sorry please forgive me thank you oh yeah I've seen you write that oh yeah yeah yeah okay and that's like the idea is that like if if you I don't know that you if you have a problem with somebody else you sort of apply that mantra to to them and in your own self and you sort of like resolve it and let it go so that you can live out of inspiration that's rather than from memory yeah I don't know but so yeah I don't know if you've dealt with any of that stuff I'm probably not aware many things I'm going to have to Google when I get home yeah this is yeah no but I don't know if you probably dealt with narcissism to a degree in people getting you and all that kind of stuff and there's a lot of there's a lot there's like you know TV yeah you know yeah well it's yeah it's been a thing like that I think that there's a lot I was under the very very mistaken assumption in the beginning I think that a lot of us were going out and playing in music and whatever that like sure people were out to make money and whatever and they try to get you to do things you know but like I think even in the relationships that were around because when you get in that constant state of movement of Tor and and that level of where you're just going all the time there is no home life you do not have friends anymore and you're isolated in this speeding metal can shooting down the road that the amount of things that I thought were true then that I come to realize now were completely insignificant things mmm like oh you have to do this thing you got to stay here too or you lose your whole career or like you have to fly to this one-off show or you have to do this thing and go basically like you have to go until far past your point where you're like dude I need to sleep for a month hmm that is not you're no longer considered I need to rest dad at seventh day big time like you're that need even if you say yo I'm dying here like that's not okay or it is it's okay but it's it's not it's not it's like yeah okay and I think that that kind of comes even to like it's a it's a weird thing where I might want to get in trouble for saying this but you there's a weird thing that like I've experienced some times where you there's a poem like a little bit of a ping-pong game going on sometimes when you're doing like certain I'm sure you've experienced this in there's certain interviewers and they're not many but where they hit you in places with statements that are completely inappropriate for a stranger to engage you about hmm and what I find is that if somebody did that to my daughter I'd be across that table and we'd be fighting because I would be like you can't say that to me because I'm having an emotional freak out because you just drop that on the table and yet this is a game for you like this is not a game but it's like a like why aren't you big enough why aren't you bigger or those kinds of nah I mean it's just like like yeah we're like you know even more personal than that just like other things where they like put you the spot I've seen people do it time and time again like where you were to like Taylor Swift you know and I'm like I'm like a like I like Taylor Swift but I'm not like really involved in like what she heard her whole thing yeah whatever but like the people will say things to you and I took this really personal for a lot of years and I didn't know I'm like what did I do like why did it why like I'm trying to make music and I get it if you if you don't like the music and you don't like the song you know that's not good cool but like why like what did I do okay cuz a lot of times and it goes back to what I was just saying before like a lot of lot of people are just trying to get an emotional reaction out of somebody that they admire but I'm not your toy just like you're not my toy I know I'm not backing them but I'm just saying yeah it is like I feel you you know what I mean like I feel like maybe I wasn't like I wasn't like bigger skin and look at Robert Downey jr. interview where the dude asks him about his father and and he picks out him just like you're describing and Downey looks at him it's like what are we doing here yeah it's like walks the foot like he's big enough to say [ __ ] you I'm out yes bail but that's what I'm talking about like ya know to be like it was a comfortable where it's just you know yeah just like Joe said just to get that reaction and put you off so the is maybe more interesting or them yeah I'm gonna set you on fire and see what happens yeah but like I don't think this is unique to me yeah like I think this is a common thing that's kind of like this is a little off you know people do that on all walks of life yeah I mean there's times you can go to a coffee shop and and somebody will throw you like the most harshest and the gnarly energy like just taking your coffee order and you'll just be like wait what yeah but you know like you know I used to confront all of those I used to be a confrontation machine really crossing the border with no I know I like that car totally talks about that you're like tapping into your pain bodies and stuff like that like where somebody can sort of egg you on and engage like an old pain body like say you're like abandonment issue from a kid thing or something in that rage from your inner child will come out in the current situation at somebody I used to like do that all the time like I used to be insane did you feel better I feel like Marilyn I'm not recommending it okay terrible it was a terrible way of going through life well let me say keeping it inside and saying nothing this has not done me any favors you know just blowed and you just like right I think there was a like I remember like holding all the stuff in that well boy like in my life being like it was almost like I heard an audible crack in my head and I was just like something broke right and I was like I hate everybody right and then like it took a lot of time to like reign back from that to like you know and I think that you know being a parent has helped with that but I I can like clearly remember a time in my life just where I was like I like I don't know if the earth opened up and swallowed everyone including me I'd be cool with it right you know oh yeah coronavirus I don't give a [ __ ] give it to me let me die like my brain will say [ __ ] you don't know you don't know but yeah like there's there's a certain amount of that kind of what do you call it nihilism that I think is important for an artist to have that when they're starting out wouldn't you agree with that like a little of that like I don't care I'm gonna go for this and if I and if it kills me whatever yeah you have to you just have to all sense tells you that not to do it right you know you have to be born with a little of that like sort of big ego on some level and also this like level of ego that you know mind sacrificing everything towards this yeah I don't understand like if I think that I think about it a lot if one of my kids was like I'm gonna be a professional actor musician I'd be like whoa right okay only because you know that the odds are not in your favor and the the also the turmoil that you will experience in the rejection right like how are you gonna deal with that but factoring it in with what we were just talking about with humanity so many people have no passion no direction so just having a passion and a direction that is success that's true that is compared to you could just be going out and lean your days towards let me see how I can get a rise out of this person yeah that that's exhaust it sounds exhausting though because hell on earth it's liars think of it's a simulation it's emotional vampire it's the same thing you hate it you think Dracula loves the fact that you've got to constantly like drink other people's blood drank has always been kind of a sexy point for me so I'm not with you there okay but yeah you know I do feel you yeah I think that the I it's they need the blood they need the blood yeah it's not like it's not a choice that's why that's where forgiveness comes in you need the blood it doesn't make them safe it doesn't make them whatever yeah but it makes them so it enables you to have some bit of empathy and compassion for people that are overtly abusive like that yeah that's tough that's a that's a hard where's that John was it Joseph Arthur will chapter the Bible I used to preach in front my new King Arthur translation don't turn your hymnals so okay so you got your on this against me toward them yeah well then what happened then we we put out an EP that see now their whole camp helped us out Jordan was their tour manager and he owned the Sabbat records mmm-hmm and he put out an EP and then and then he got us a friend of his was a publicist for named Vanessa and she helped us sort of get out to the world and that was the first time like we did any like proper interviews and then that and I was continuing the tour sort of grew and side when dummy took a notice and Josip and bill Armstrong really were you know instrumental very excited I'm excited about you guys big time and they they were like this is we believe in this we totally believe in it yeah and we were just like okay cool you know and we knew that feel great I feel great cuz they were it was that like night first like okay we're gonna [ __ ] make it I thought so well I had their proof they had proof they had flogging.molly gold records yeah and you're like gold records by flogging.molly yeah but sure enough yes five hundred thousand records sold and I looked at that and I said that's a punk band a punk band sold that many records on this label they have a billboard outside on the building yeah I've never been on a billboard I'm signing to this label yeah cuz I was like this is everything you'd want in a major label that without all the like other stuff that we knew is just not the Moot the move so it came through against me well yeah pretty much they were the sort of the catalyst yeah and now I sort of have interested it is is cool cool and like for me I sort of look out now they're like who cannot like I always take people that I like with the people that come on tour with me like I always take people that maybe don't benefit me but that maybe I could benefit them yeah you know and like I try to give that back because like it's hard to get noticed yeah and when you could chant you know you could champion someone else mm-hmm like I think that's that's tight nobody's does that yeah it is tight you know you got it mm-hmm I saw that's the one thing I took away yeah I guess hope so yeah I took the way from the punk scene you know growing up in the punk scene in our Christine like looking out for you your friends and the and the the people like in your community and like just being like yo this bands where I'm from like where they're not what for my front but they're from the same they like same music use me put them on a tour who cares no no how many people they bring who cares yeah you know that's cool yeah what were your hardcore influences back in the day I mean like early on like the first one's always Minor Threat for everybody so that was like the the early the early stuff I never got into like you like Fugazi I didn't until I was like like 33 I got that that didn't happen for me I was like I don't get it I'm like it's so angular why do I don't get the chords and Namas later well now I but like my friend got me into them he was like made me like sit down in a hotel room in like Florida and he was like check this out played me on all the records and I was it's not bad hmm but uh yeah like was young it was just like those those it didn't local band all the local bands you know like yeah like sick of it all and like even like when I was I remember when I remember being in high school and doing like I was in shop class and we were doing like some work I don't worry building but when my friends like yo I got this this EP from this band from New York it was mad ball and he put it on and I was just like I like this pretty cool I like this I wanna smash this place up and like that like local stuff was like the music that I really like got into cuz to me like I liked the clash and I like the like the New York Dolls and all his bands but like the they were so far like they might like to me the Buzzcocks it was the same as Bruce Springsteen it was his giant rock stars I didn't know whether they're famous or not and so I would just go to my tangible show going experience of New Jersey Philly in New York and maybe DC if I got a ride and and so that's how I kind of developed in that scene and like figured out yeah like what I wanted to do and I would see bands like at Coney Island higher they I would see like like bands like the u.s. bombs would come there or like Social Distortion and that kind of showed me like oh you could kind of have like kinda sounds like a punk Rolling Stones you know and I was like this is cool because then it bridge the gap between like rock and roll yeah and then also Punk yeah cuz I mean definitely that those those early bands did that for me because I couldn't you know you you couldn't you had to sort of get permission in my I had to get permission I felt like musically to do that and not just be one or the other like a folk band or punk man so to me mission to what be in myself yeah like I had to find permission to be in between hogs refinement social D that was a yeah I saw Mike on there on like 120 minutes or something I was like I was like yo that I don't wanna fight that guy but I listen it was music a light bulb went on big time yeah so I heard story in my life that song and I was just like I'm in what do you think makes a great song I think like a lot of things I mean but I think that having something obviously that resonates with people but also like a good melody that is propelling itself forward at all times I think that that's important a lot of songs lag and they lag like in the right from the get-go sometimes they lag and they just stay dead in the water and you lot of clear you mean yeah or even like you know not even tempo wise but like just there has to be something propelling the song whether it's an interesting phrase or whatever or an intro and one thing that Brendan O'Brien said to me when we were making a record with him he said he goes I think the song should be instantly recognizable as unique in the first second that it comes on Wow he said that to me and I was like first yeah like right away one boom it has to be instantly records oh and he goes he goes well hard day's night and he gave me all a Pearl Jam Jeremy I was like oh one second I got a I got a give it to one second test well I mean when you hear I mean like within the first like three second I liked what you were doing on Instagram where you were like calling out albums that you liked and maybe ones that would surprise people there's maybe not the coolest ones cuz I'm like same way man I like I like the Red Hot Chili Peppers cause I like all kinds of [ __ ] like I don't think you can always be cool ya know it's cooler you let yeah um County Crowes sorta in Reverse yeah and also live you you insert some class or you play around with things is that just on the fly well that came from my mom with the folksongs cuz she always told me she would be like so here's the traditional song from the him this is where Woody Guthrie took the same melody and changed the words this is where Bob Dylan stole that this is where this person referenced that and so to me music has always been a cycle like I always look at it foolishly maybe sometimes but that we're all in this together like all of the musicians that have ever existed are we're all all that writers all the artists we're all in the same we're in a circle that continues and none of us are original and it's all this thing that we're getting from somewhere else because if you sit there tell me that you're doing it over yourself I challenge you to sit down and write a song right now that's as good as like the times they're changing that was divine inspiration of whatever kind of divinity you want to claim it for that did not happen because Bob Dylan was worked hard enough you know that's not what happened he it was striking enlightening mmm and you cannot control that and I think that we're all so so we're all hoping if we're honest with ourselves because I write songs for a living like you do too like we're all in this you know you sit at your desk most of the time and you're like I don't know I don't know how to do this I forget how to do it I've done it a hundred times I don't know how to do it today and it happens and when it happens and it's lightning you know you know and strikes a chord of people that you can't control that mm-hmm or else we would do it all the time yes so I think that we're all in it together so I would borrow things in in in the same sense of tradition yeah like is like this is just I'm gonna tell somebody else about this thing that I'm inspired by yeah talked about it you know that's the first time I heard about you when you took that Maria came from Nashville yeah it was not a popular decision among the band I learned it from hip hop that's what I learnt Tribe Called Quest and they you know they would talk about yeah I was dad like was talking which said it reminded him of a bebop you know he's listening to Michael Jackson and I was like why not for me too that's a hip-hop thing that I learned and I was just like I could die yeah there's some other music I want to tell you about I like that though we're all in this together yeah that concept is good hmm you know because it can be sort of competitive or this that I guess you'd like to get your voice out there there can be like a sense of competition about it but I think the older you get the more you become I don't know I feel like I become more like yeah we're all in this together like less sort of eager to ego-driven in some kind of way yeah but the ego that was driving me before there was something good about it too sure and he's kind of disappeared a little bit I feel just like more peaceful but I must ambitious yeah like I'll write a song sometimes would be like should I record this hunger you're just like the drive was like you know you're on a mission yeah it's militant yeah so did you like did you ever like you you're you're kind of linked up with Bruce Springsteen a little bit yeah right how did that happen well he he showed up he [ __ ] just showed up hold up he didn't really call there like leave a message anything he's owed up yeah it came to a gig yeah we were playing Glastonbury and we were like on the tenth that and no one would ever heard about that show if it wasn't for him like we weren't let there be no mistake that we were not we would have been forgotten like the the wind I mean Florence and the Machine were on that bill but Glastonbury if you're on Glastonbury you've made it you [ __ ] him dude you're doing something right really okay I do that's a hard festival beginning okay yes yeah I would agree but the significance of these things sometimes sometimes is a little like it can come and go I'm not sure what it means you know right no it can mean nothing yeah I guess you got me a lot it can mean nothing yeah stage see exactly so he just like well so first of all all these cop cars roll up their sirens and we're like so I look out and I go what did you guys do because I knew that something was up I was like this is not okay yeah because I knew that this morning I was playing a Glastonbury and this evening I'm going to jail in England right and and and then and and then outcomes like all these black cars and I was like dude this is not good and and then out comes Bruce Springsteen and I'm like wow this dream is getting weirder looking at him walking towards me and I'm going what is going on like what what did I do and like did you have any like since then Bruce knew anything about you before that yeah yeah judge off a little bit probably so so inevitably like so he comes up and like he goes do you wanna go kind of play a song with you I was like are you asking now we're good and he goes he's like yeah he's like I think I know that 59 sounds song and in my head I'm like or he goes no I want to play that 59 sound song with you do you have a guitar and I go yeah like a couple and I said my first response to him was do you know it like not yes it was do you know it and I'm not sure why I asked him that but that's what you know you don't plan for these things what makes it I want to know like do you know it like also it's like you know like you're kind of like I feel like that's you checking in with reality for a second like well let me let me get my head around your time in a way to getting your head around like you know just throwing a question yeah so he said yes and I said okay and then we did not rehearse or talk right we walked to the stage like it was literally like five seconds before show time did he say like am a fan of your band anything like that or not really he just manifested himself and he's like I wanna play like smoke like Prince right it comes up in smoke and you're like alright and then he comes out and and then he says like do you want to play with us later and I was like yes I do and that was 190,000 people in front of me Wow and I go all right what did you play with him No Surrender Wow and he we did that and I was like you asked you if you knew it he did and I did I said I know I know it very well I'll be good I don't need the lyrics right and and and we did it and then we did it the next night that Hard Rock Calling thing and then Hyde Park yeah Hyde Park you [ __ ] you know and and then and then from that that was kind of it man so that's amazing Wow and what was the what was life like after that Oh shift or what yeah big time like what well they would immediately we had lovers and haters and that was the first time that we know you had some active haters all come coming in massive haters we got so many new fans and so many new haters people got an immediate love and chip on their shoulder about us without us saying a word and what do you think about I thought that some of it was awesome and I thought some of it sucked your feelings are big-time big-time big-time back to me - you know I can't either and the thing to me is like the thing that sucked the most is that like Bruce was sacred to me I was like this is my mom's music I was like this man and his band of gypsies went out in the world and proved that you could be from New Jersey and have nothing and make something there he gave us the courage to sort of like the patron saint of like people who didn't go to college and we followed this you know like not we are the band the guys in the band they didn't care about Bruce Springsteen I cared about Bruce Springsteen and I was like you guys this is this is the way forward and uh you know we we did this thing and like and then and then it was it was good and bad um but but Bruce has always been good to me and the fans that love this man they really loved it and they were they were like a treasure but he's been so cool to me for so long so cool yeah he does what you say pays it forward where he sees an artist that he likes and he helps their career like we did it with Jesse Malin and with Willie Nile and with you or he Oscars people to the front yeah selflessly very very much so it's very very very cool but then you do see that side where people get jealous you know and they're like like why do you think you deserve that I don't deserve this thank you this guy bestowed the the crown jewel upon our heads I thought there's nothing I can do to deserve that you know what I mean like this is the guy I don't know you but this is the guy this is my Paul McCartney right I talk about him and say like you one of the things you liked about was how he sort of I don't know how you put it but like how it was interesting to me you put it like his music was like he was like corralling all this chaos or something or if it's good I said it I said that I don't know I guess he does definitely has like the rock-and-roll spirit that those ki that chaotic energy is around him yeah but I only started like puts it all together in a way that's really just genius I guess but a one-of-a-kind now you know yeah I mean like really I think that's once in an era yeah I guess when he was younger maybe you said that he was really worried about imagery in his songs I think that's something I probably read yeah yeah but like I I loved it my little state yeah that's good many things to be had at in New Jersey yeah I'm from Akron Ohio so we kind of like I can relate that's cool yeah similar that's good Afghan Whigs country yeah that's right I like that yeah I'm getting ready go on tour with them provided that we provided this below no virus doesn't [ __ ] everything up oh right the canceling okay yeah look canceling dates now you're going through or do you know anything as far as I know I was talking about Europe first coming right up actually so yes aim I'm supposed to leave I talk Wednesday being like oh really yeah yeah cuz the flights and all that oh right you know how many people are freaked out yeah well I mean yeah I guess I can I can understand I don't know yeah what to think about that I don't either cuz what are you gonna do feel proud about Jersey like when let's say Asbury Park now is like completely revamp do you feel you have a stake in at all like you're you're involved and responsible for some of it I don't know if I feel responsible for it but I feel I feel Bruce is responsible for it and I feel that I'm proud because like when we were kids you know like you go to the boardwalk and like I remember my mom being like yo you can't go on the beach and I be like we talked about the beach she'd be like not there's needles in there and there be needles in the in the in the sand and you know like little kids were getting like stepping on Neil's and you just be like you know they'd be like shut down no you can't go on the beach and I remember that being like but why not you know and you didn't understand and it was a dump like and then it kind of came back around and now it's like a Center for you know calm like anything artistic is like really was cool like seeing that yeah this shows you just play that in your job that's Barry Park yeah I played yeah the same we did that was I remember the other day yeah I was thinking about housing it's a cool little rock and roll I like that place timing do you remember in like I accident I went and there's this guy at coyote shivers you know I'm talking about it's like it like a kind of the Johnny Thunder is kind of like Ramon Z but like he had songs were kind of funny like he would say like real charity stuff and his songs but uh he I remember showing up there one day with my friend at the st. and like we looked at thing and like he starts playing I was like oh that's cool it's the only time that like I went to somewhere I had no idea who's playing it turned out to be somebody I liked so that's a cool place I like that place did your mom get to meet Bruce or what was her reaction when when this whole thing happen with you and Bruce my mom was pumped yeah yeah my mom was real proud yeah but that's how I got through playing in front of 180,000 people without throwing up because I said I was like I said to myself you can't mess this up I was like cuz your mom is definitely gonna see this mm-hmm and I was like you can't mess up you can't there was no I was like messing up is not an option style option is between me and my mom and that was it and I just went for it so like I've played even not that in front of that many people but I think I played for like 70,000 people with like Ben Harper or something like that and I found that super easy because the fourth wall is so traumatic you might as well be like Washington Monument or the difference between you and the audience is like it's just like it's like you might as well have a superhero costume on whereas if I do like a house concert yeah or if I play a place like the Saint in Asbury Park yeah that's harder I can see that for me yeah you know not necessarily the saint but a house concert like house concerts are hard yeah they know fourth wall it's like you're just in the room yeah in your heart it is scary if anybody breathes or anything right yeah it's just that's hella awkward yeah totally but I think that yeah it for me it was it was daunting I was I looked out and was like oh like that's a lot of people right you know I know someone's filming this you know is that kind of thing so that's like you look back in you're like oh what up Clarence mmm like I better not make a mistake yeah this is like you looking your hero's or standing next to you and you're just like uh I don't know what to do like what am I supposed to do you're not prepared for this do you ever think about things like manifesting your reality and maybe ever listen to things like that abraham-hicks or I've never heard of doctor judge Spencer thing like know what you know the secret is that is the other version of it like where you man if you like hold something in your head and make it make your dreams come true basically okay through the power of manifestation I know I never I never studied you never mess with that huh but you are manifesting great things how many records did so how many records did you end up putting out or like what happened after that well then we'll we put out three records after that so that that that's when record making became extraordinary difficult because that's when you knew that like people were listening right and that did my head in a bit because it made me feel like before I didn't I was creating in this peaceful space of like I'm only doing this because I like it for you and maybe whoever can catches on yeah and then in a now there was all this like from like people and the Springsteen message scary to me cuz I was like I wanted so bad to live up to I guess it's like you know doing like being a fighter and getting like you just knocking people out and then you get to that title fight and you're like if I messed this one thing up that's it you know you're done and and I like you don't get around to mmm so I had to I had to kind of I don't know like just press forward and I think that we did okay I think that we did the best that we could do but I do not think that we were you know like equipped to be able to navigate those waters as well as maybe people thought we were you know like we kind of did those things we were so hard on sleeve that we just didn't give thought to all the the other things which which you were hard on sleeve did you say heart on sleeve you know heart yeah like very very just like we this is what we are like it's not like it's not like a thing and and I think that later on I realized that there's also a little bit of a craft navigating now that world you know and that kind of people's the interviews and stuff like there's like a little bit of a way to do it in a way not do because I would talk like I assumed every was a music fan so I would be like hey we're talking like this yeah but that's also good even though I'm I hear it's not a tactic it's a good tactic that's still like hey [ __ ] it we're hard on sleep this is what we are it can die it is yeah yeah yeah yeah well cuz you say things like thinking that that's where what I was talking about before it kind of comes into play is like you would say things to be like you know hey do you love this and you'd be like yeah of course I love this and then somebody be like well you're stupid for loving that essentially you know and you'd be like but they wouldn't say it to your face they'd say it later and you'd be like you'd read it and be like I didn't oh come on I said it like this and you know that alright but now you're making it you're making me feel stupid like I'm saying something like oh that's lame [Applause] yeah of course I gotta do something you know I gotta I gotta figure out whether I gotta buy a invest in a tool belt in the near future gotta know where I am you know you gotta stay plugged in summary I don't know sometimes I judge it a lot by like shows like how many people are common like if they're common and they're still excited about it then it seems cool but like nowadays it's a little different there's less you know you know like back in the day like if you 10 years ago you got like a bad review that traveled for a long way you know now it travels a little bit less because people make their own opinions yeah cuz everybody's a critic man yeah but like things move quicker and you get to say your own piece yeah you know that's true whereas before you know some people would take it in like a real sarcastic tone and there would be I was kind of like you I you dissing on this thing that I love you know I get your own thing to be negative about it I love my Bruce Springsteen in me you know whatever my New Jersey and my cheeseburgers get out of here well that's what's cool about what you've done recently on social media with the whole like you're sort of little album reviews about albums you like and yeah you're not worried about I don't know it flies in the face of those kind of concerns like yeah I'm not worried about oh here's my punk rock credibility this that the other okay like that's cool though yeah that's cool it is cool and people respond like that too they like it and like me too like I see like oh he likes the Red Hot Chili Peppers - yeah good I like them too I'm sick of being feeling guilty every time so bad one two and that review it so yeah I like the Red Hot Chili Peppers suck my kiss I just like him yeah oh you were talking about like people thought you were probably listening to the class that's that and the other thing and you were listening to Stadium arcadian yeah because the John Frusciante is background vocals I love it I love it I mean I background vocal vibe does I there's track so you can find on YouTube but it's just the background vocal right and it's gnarly it's so good the harmonies yeah and they're back together man yeah he's tuned in something else he is tuned into some big timely - interesting cat yeah I think all that that whole band I feel like that band is so appreciative of where they are and who I don't even know them and I've never met them but like they seem so open to like the fact that they are a small drop in a giant community of musical people and that to me they seem humble about it yeah you know I love that yeah me too so how excited are you now that you got this solo album done and local honey local honey are you excited about yes Evan yeah I am excited I think that I'm happy to have done something where is like I have a hard time telling what's good I feel that this is something that satisfied me to do I was done I feel like I am satisfied I have made a statement that I've been trying to make for a long time and I I view it a lot of as how I must have imagined anyone else who makes like a musical shift at some point where they just go you know what I'm this guy I've kind of always been that guy but now I just don't care if you see it like not that you don't care like in a negative way but just like I I got a B I got to be me I can't pander to you I got to be me yeah and and I feel like I made a wreck where I go yep that's me and people have seemed real excited about it I think people like love you you know some people do now a lot of people do ma'am and you carry yourself with a lot of I don't know you have one of these personalities that's like you you make people people want you to like them I do like them yeah they want you to like them too maybe I'm just talking about myself no it's it's you know who I will tell you I know you're friends with you know who somebody who did not care if they like them or not who I love very much so I was hanging out with you boy Greg Dulli right this tasty if you get it and I gotta get to say it so yo so I'll tell you what when I was growing up there there was there was the Father the Son the Holy Ghost then there was Greg Dulli and Mark Lanegan to me yeah so I was like yo and we were hanging out we were playing and it was like Soundgarden or something was playing these a couple shows and it was you know the Afghan Whigs and refused and Gaslight and like so I was like and I got to meet Greg and he was so cool to me he was in such a good mood he was happy like but that's not who I expected from the records I expected this like salty dude right so we go up and we're playing this festival and he's like I'm like walking somewhere with him and I'm like totally like this is mental I'm like yo somebody's gonna get stabbed I know it it's gonna be like Afghan Whigs song I'm like something Bad's gonna happen you know what so then roll up and there's Mark Lanegan and he's gonna play a show and like I think it was right before he went on stage or something like that and I love again like if there's anybody's voice that I love it's like Tom Waits and Mark Lanegan those are the two and Greg goes hey mark this is my friend Brian and Mark doesn't even look at me and he just goes hey and then goes right back to talking to Greg and I'm like looking at him like a puppy and I'm just like yo I might grace me with your dark light just turn and my turn your face to me you know what I mean and he just was not having any kind of interaction at all but not like he plays not in immediate way not a mean way but he was frosty as the tundra and I was like I liked him even more right and I was like I said the guy got cool you know you boy I didn't say hi he goes nah that's him he goes you gotta take him to leave it I was like cool I respect it like I wanted so bad to like have I was like this is the moment this is a moment where I get hit by a bus afterward and I'm cool with it because I'm like I got Greg Dulli and Mark Lanegan standing right in front of me got hurt when and I'm in the I'm in the you know I'm in the congregation big time and I'm just like lay it on me I could not he's like yeah right not the self-promote but we had him on the podcast we went this house in LA and he's he knows us both very comfortably yeah and if you watch that episode he'll be like is that mark cuz he's cracking up he's laughing he's funny so and I say to him mark you know you're very intimidating to people that don't know you and then Joe goes you're very intimidating to people who do know yes that's like that's the thing it's cause like he wasn't mean like some people are like rude he wasn't rude at all like he did say hi but he was so intimidating yeah same feeling about you away [ __ ] yeah dude I'm not like that no no maybe not like that but you have a similar way about you I feel like I'm very embracing though when you first like if you are you very nice like I'm just like I was intimidated to meet you did because you seem like a cool tough guy too maybe it's the tattoos Wow you know like somebody said that to me too like on Instagram recently like oh for such a brooding guy like you have a nice smile or something I'm like brooding goofball like assume brooding I guess if you make music sometimes yeah or whatever that's I guess they survive but yeah I think that I don't know I try to like I think I'm so uncomfortable on a daily basis like yeah I just try to make people feel comfortable right you know but I mean I guess it's another thing if you don't need that just makes you cooler if you I seem cooler you know I'm gonna cuz now forever I think marks the coolest yeah so cool he's very cool on local honey you said you're happy with it how is it different from your previous two solo are you have more happy with the writing with with the music what's more you now that you said well this thing I think that I'm happy with is that I'm happy with all of this stuff in you know in its own way like I'm pleased with it there's nothing that I would say like oh I wish I you know like I hate this or that like I'm very happy with it but the thing that I think that makes me more happy now is that I feel like there was no stone unturned and there was nothing that I felt that the job wasn't finished and a lot of the times like on the on the last record like I wish I went further into some of the like I'm not saying that I would have erased any of the songs I love the songs but I wish I added more of the like like there's a first the first song on the record it's like kind of like it's got like kind of this like soul groove like R&B backbeat like the jam kind of like town called malice and it's called if your prayers don't get to heaven and I wish that I went further in that that like songwriting style on the rest of the record like I wish I'd dug deeper in that and then like even on the first record I wish I had like dug deeper into some of the like really like 70s California harmony stuff like Jackson Browne and that kind of thing and like just just as an art as an artistic thing but on this one who I remember setting out what I tried to do like I was like I I'm inspired by wrecking ball and time out of mind and these records of Daniel Lanois did and I'm just like that where people just kind of let their guard down and said I'm gonna make a record two records are killer right and also the Neville Brothers the yellow moon that he did yeah yeah check that one okay yellow moon that's another new alright that's another New Orleans Lanois love that production but I mean that time out of mind is like one of the greatest records of all time I think it should be in the Smithsonian I'm serious in it I think it's so good like people are like you know times they are a-changin I'm like what time out time out of mind - it's not dark yet but it's getting there totally [ __ ] standing in the doorway and what about the Highlands yeah dude saddle the whole thing with the waitress and like I'm drawing a picture of goes on for 11 minutes like god damn is that a great record even the way it starts with lovesick if and you're sick of love yeah but like even the beginning of that song like that has a thing where you you're as soon as you hear um walk in it like you're you're in you're in the world that's the thing that I think that like makes people like you know Tom Waits and Mark Lanegan and Greg Dulli in the in the oh and by the way guys because I know you you like Joseph congratulations you are in the can and with Tom Waits now you're on the level so they're in the same they've been upgraded to this level of like legendary thing right and I don't know if they know that Greg and Mark regular they're in the level yeah thing in a mail in the mail or whatever but they they're in there is so like you know when you get to that level and you create these worlds instantly it's like okay great you know like this is this is the thing and that's what I think that he achieved but when you know how do you think he achieved that I mean a lot of it probably has to do with Daniel Lanois right cuz Bob Dylan writes great songs but like you you can't you got to create a sound it's when lanois produces UM's specifically on that album to it but he said he hated it there was a lot of tension ii and he resisted giving dan the full props I guess Oh blooded it's a little bit like Quincy Jones and Michael Jackson it's like Michael Jackson want to be like wait I can do this without Quincy that's nah now you kind of can't really you sorta can but just do it with Quincy again yeah I kind of want to say that to Bob Dylan to I mean obviously Bob Dylan can do it with anybody wants and Jack Frost can produce it but it's like it's a self right now like but I'm just saying like yeah that timeout of mine it's like it's so good but I think that's kind of like so I do not think I achieved you know the greatness of that record but I do but that's what you were angling yeah and and and sad like this satisfaction level that I walked away with it is I like I put it on for the first time and I remember just being like yeah yeah like that's what I was doing huh you know you got there yeah and it's a weird thing because I felt like though it's my third solo record I feel like this is the moment where I'm sorry my wife about this the other day where you know you know that moment where I guess like when Tom Waits got married and he basically just like cut off he was like yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna start banging on pots and pans now that's another thing like that's who I am now yeah yeah like I think of that a lot yeah his thing with rhythm led songwriting yeah anything and his wife is the one who pushed him in that direction yeah and your wife yeah Catherine I think is I mean I can't remember her name but Kath yeah but I feel like he just like sort of said like I I don't I'm um this is who I am yeah I let it down and just like be played and people hated the black rider that was records when they first came out like people did not like those records so you know and now time has said these are great but like you know for me I think that the the I found like a door that opened up in my head and I loved the old material that I've done like every there's not a single record where I feel like I wouldn't have done that like 59 Sun or American Slang or any of those records yeah like and even my first two solo records there's not a one of them that I would I would scrub from the yeah the books but I feel like I now as like a 40 year old father who's been where I've you know what might I've lived my life this far I can see that a door to the the future has opened for my my art creativity with this record yeah well 40 is the new 25 so you're just getting going to tell me about it but um I guess it's like a level of intimacy in that time out of mind when I think about it yeah maybe that's kind of and maybe that's what you achieved there's a kind of intimacy he almost died right before they made that record it seemed like Annie and I just remember like for years it was like oh yeah probably never gonna make another record all this and it was like yeah when that came out it was like oh it's not dark yet but it's getting there this must be like he must be gonna about to die in like two weeks yeah that's what it felt like it did and then fast forward to 45 years later 1,400 now we'd probably better wrap this up because we've been going for a while but like did you also you've got a are you like a sobriety person to like do you not drink or anything like that yeah but I do not buy like anybody knows a thing like I I just don't like I even even in the days when like the band was getting like going and getting big like I just never I was so concerned about the like I knew that if I slacked off in any way that somebody be right there to take it you know but if we had a shot I was gonna take it and if I got messed up I saw all the guys on tour losing their voice that shows the next day and like you know just like really having a hard time focus yeah and then now like I but I was always like I drink a little bit like just a couple beers but now I see it is like you know I gotta keep maintain high level clarity and like just to be a dad and like to also just just just on like you know what I've somehow been given the ability to abstain and so since I never thought it was so good let me abstain and I'll be that guy I'll be the guy that people feel safe around that are like you know I quit doing whatever and be like cool come hang with me because like everybody the parties they can hang to but they can hang with anybody the people that don't party there's a very limited number of people that they can hang with and I have an empathy towards any kind of struggle like that why I don't know I feel because I have an empathy for suffering and perseverance yeah coming from you I thought you were in a recovery person no I don't know I feel like you know I'm gonna be honest team like that I feel like I feel like I am I'm definitely that I've been you know I started going into meetings when I was torn before I was legal yeah a mess with all that [ __ ] that's how I feel and I have a spidey sense about it like a Mack definitely my spidey senses are going with you yeah why well I think it's the you know the people have struggled and people who have sort of had to come back from whatever your mental health or any kind of thing like that and like that I've I've struggled with and I feel like there's a real empathy towards anybody who's get just gets real and goes like I'm busted up I don't know what to do I'm trying well cool what would like what would you say to like people like young people coming up trying to like do what you're doing and stuff like that it would be well we would advice would you give them on how to keep their dreams alive I would say that you do not listen to anyone and lock yourself in the room and create what you makes you feel don't create what you think is cool or what will sell create what sets you on fire just make that and make that your goal because you will win no matter what if you do that yeah just what you love that's the thing create that yeah that's great man thank you for doing the podcast yeah thanks for having me it's been wonderful talking to thank you et relations on the new album thank you tour starts at the this is gonna come out before the album's yeah we could use it you're playing Town Hall in New York yep Webster Hall has right after that I think right at like a couple days and that Webster Hall tour dates on the website nice yeah Brian bound net Brian Fowler dotnet and Instagram Brian Fallon duh Brian family somebody took Brian found they wouldn't give it to me I asked them is that you let me buy that off you come on and they wouldn't they said nah damn I respect that like I see how it is yeah so yeah cool man yeah all right thank you thank you cheers everybody [Music] hi this is Joseph Arthur and thanks for checking out come to where I'm from please support us on patreon patreon comm slash come to where I'm from we are an independent podcast any contributions you can make are greatly appreciated [Music]

Channel: Joseph Arthur

Views: 8,311

Rating: 4.9819818 out of 5

Keywords: brian fallon, local honey, bruce springsteen, london calling, hyde park, the gaslight anthem, interview, podcast, joseph arthur, come to where i'm from, new, 2020, tour, town hall, webster hall, mark lanegan, greg dulli, covid-19, painkillers, sleepwalking, a wonderful life, pearl jam, jeff ament, peter buck, REM, RNDM, ben harper, smoke, the '59 sound, counting crows, handwritten, new jersey, great expectations, american slang, reunion, rare, old white lincoln

Id: DlcXiCuBAfE

Length: 106min 29sec (6389 seconds)

Published: Mon Mar 23 2020

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Our guest this Episode is American Singer-Songwriter and Musician best known as the lead vocalist, rhythm guitarists and main lyricist of the rock band The Gaslight Anthem, BRIAN FALLON! Recorded early March, pre-Pandemic in anticipation of his new solo release coming out this week, LOCAL HONEY. We do a deep dive into his past and early days, his influences, the strong women in his life that helped pave the way, we talk Gaslight Anthem, solo projects, that one time Springsteen appeared on stage and asked to play, writing lyrics, raising a family, and the process of growing up and reflecting on life. Enjoy!