JOINING ME NOW IS THE FORMER DEREK TORE OF THE CIA AND SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, JOHN BRENNAN. THANK YOU FOR COMING TO THE SHOW. AS FORMER HEAD OF THE CIA, TELL ME HOW CONCERNED YOU ARE ABOUT RUSSIA'S MOVE ON NUCLEAR PLANTS
IN UKRAINE. IN UKRAINE. >> I THINK IT REFLECTS THE RECKLESSNESS PROSECUTING. WITH A POTENTIAL FOR THE REACTORS. I THINK THERE ARE SIX REACTORS AT THAT PLANT, AND COULD BE BREACHED WITH FIRING, WHATEVER.
THE ENDANGERMENT GOES FAR BEYOND THE ENDANGERMENT GOES FAR BEYOND THAT REGION IF THERE IS ESCAPED NUCLEAR MATERIAL IN THE AREA. THIS POWER PLANT IS MUCH LARGER THAN CHERNOBYL, AND WE SAW WHAT HAPPENED WITH THAT. TO THE EFFECT THERE IS FIGHTING AROUND THESE RYEEACTORS, THERE COULD BE A DEVASTATING EFFECT NOT JUST AROUND THIS AREA, BUT COULD HAVE BROADER IMPLICATIONS. >> WE WERE TALKING ABOUT WHAT WAS SAID YESTERDAY ABOUT THE NO-FLY ZONE. I WANT TO PLAY WHAT HE SAID. >> IRRESPONSIBLE STATEMENTS THAT THEY SHOULD CREATE A NO-FLY ZONE OVER THE TERRITORY OF UKRAINE. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO DO. BUT ANY MOVE IN THAT DIRECTION WILL BE CONSIDERED BY US AS PARTICIPATION OF THAT COUNTRY IN THE MILITARY ACTION. THAT VERY SECOND WE WILL CONSIDER THEM AS PARTICIPANTS OF THIS CONFLICT. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT MEMBERS OF WHAT ALLIANCES THEY ARE. IENED STAND -- I AM HOPING THIS WILL NOT COME TO IT. >> SO DIRECTOR BRENNAN, HOW CONCERNED SHOULD THE UNITED STATES AND NATO BE BY THOSE WORDS FROM VLADIMIR PUTIN? >> I THINK PUTIN IS CONTINUING TO TRY TO DESCRIBE RUSSIA AS A VICTIM IN THIS WHOLE UNSEEMLY AFFAIR. THEY TRIED TO IMPLEMENT A NO-FLY ZONE WOULD BE DIFFICULT AND I THINK IT WOULD LEAD TO QUICK CONFRONTATION BETWEEN RUSSIA AND NATO FORCES AND COULD SPIRAL INTO UNCERTAIN POTENTIAL. YOU ARE NOT JUST GOING TO TRY TO DENNY DENY RUSSIAN AIRCRAFTS' ABILITY TO FLY OVER UKRAINE.
YOU WOULD HAVE TO TAKE OUT AIR YOU WOULD HAVE TO TAKE OUT AIR SITES, POEBLMOBILE SITES AS WELL THOSE SEVERAL HUNDRED MILES WITHIN THE BORDER OF RUSSIA. I BELIEVE IT WOULD LEAD TO A RAPID ESCALATORY ISSUE. THEY ARE TRYING TO INCLUDE THE WHEREWITHAL ON AIR DEFENSE. THAT'S WHY MOVING THESE FROM POLAND INTO UKRAINE. UKRAINIAN PILOTS KNOW HOW TO FLY THEM. THEY ARE A CAPABLE AIRCRAFT. I THINK THAT WILL PROVIDE THE BOOST UKRAINIANS NEED TO DEFEND THEMSELVES. >> RUSSIANS ARE ATTACKING NUCLEAR PLANTS AND TAKING THEM OVER. WHY HAVE WE NOT SEEN MORE OF AN AERIAL ASSAULT ON UKRAINE. RUSSIA IS SUPPOSED TO HAVE A SUPERIOR MILITARY. WHY HAVEN'T THEY TAKEN OVER THE SKIES OVER UKRAINE? >> WELL, I THINK WE HAVE SEEN FOOTAGE OF RUSSIAN AIRCRAFT AND HELICOPTERS BEING DOWNED BY UKRAINIAN FORCES. ALSO, IT REFLECTS THE ABILITY OF THE RUSSIAN MILITARY TO BE ABLE TO CONTROL THE ENVIRONMENT, THE AIRSPACE. UKRAINIANS ARE PUTTING UP STIFF RESISTANCE. I THINK IT SHOWS THAT THE RUSSIAN MILITARY HAS NOT HAD THE EXPERIENCE OPERATING IN HOSTILE
ENVIRONMENTS. WHEN THEY OPERATED IN CRYIMEA, THEY DIDN'T FACE RESISTANCE. HERE THE UKRAINIANS WERE BOLSTERED BY WEAPONS THAT WENT INTO UKRAINE PRIOR TO THE INVASION. I THINK THE RUSSIAN PILOTS ARE NOT AS COMPETENT AS PUTIN THOUGHT THEY WERE WHICH IS WHY I THINK THE ENTIRE INVASION HAS BOGGED DOWN AND THE RUSSIANS ARE RESORTING TO TACTICS OF INTIMIDATING CIVILIAN POPULATION AND STRIKES AGAINST CIVILIANS WHEN CEASE-FIRES ARE CALLED. THIS IS TYPICAL OF RUSSIA. >> ONE MORE QUESTION FOR YOU, DIRECTOR BRENNAN. I BELIEVE IT WAS AFTER A CALL WITH THE FRENCH PRESIDENT, THAT HE SAID IN THE PHONE CALL THE WORST IS YET TO COME. YOU HAVE BEEN IN NATIONAL SECURITY A LONG TIME. FOCUSING ON RUSSIA, WHAT COULD THAT POSSIBLY LOOK LIKE? >> WELL, I THINK IT MEANS THAT PUTIN IS LIKELY TO DOUBLE DOWN. I REALLY DO NOT SEE THAT HE HAS THE PSYCHOLOGICAL MAKEUP TO REVERSE COURSE AND PULL HIS FORCES OUT OF RUSSIA. SO I THINK WE ARE GOING TO SEE AN INTENSITY OF THE MILITARY PRESSURE INSIDE OF UKRAINE. WHETHER OR NOT HE IS GOING TO TRY TO PROVOKE SOMETHING WITH NATO ALONG THE BORDER OF THE FOUR STATES ADJACENT TO UKRAINE, I AM NOT SURE. RUSSIA HAS A WAY OUT, BUT I AM NOT SURE IF PUTIN SEES A WAY OUT OF THIS WITHOUT SOME TYPE OF ESCALATION TO PUT IT ON AN EVEN HIGHER TRAJECTORY AS FAR AS RUSSIA'S PRESSURE AND MILITARY ONSLAUGHT IN UKRAINE THAT CAN SPILL OVER INTO A RUSSIA/NATO CONFLICT. >> ONE MORE QUICK QUESTION. HOW LIKELY DO YOU THINK THAT IS, THAT IF PUTIN SUCCEEDS IN TAKING OVER UKRAINE, THAT HE WON'T STOP THERE, AND THAT HE WILL TRY TO GO INTO THE BALANCE PARTICULARS OR
-- BALTICS OR POLAND. -- BALTICS OR POLAND. >> I THINK HIS APPETITE IS UNBOUNDED. I DON'T THINK HE WILL BE ABLE TO TAKE OVER THE PEOPLE OF UKRAINE. IT'S SOMETHING HIS FORCES ARE NOT CAPABLE OF DOING. WE NEED TO BE SURE HE STOPS. WHETHER HE GOES TO MALDOVA OR SOMEWHERE ELSE, HE'S DRUNK ON POWER AND UNSTABLE AND SEES THE CORNERS CLOSING IN ON HIM. THEREFORE, WHAT HE MIGHT DO TO LASH OUT TO TRY TO SURVIVE THIS SITUATION IS UNCLEAR. THIS IS WHERE I THINK WE HAVE TO PUT UP A VERY STIFF, STRONG AND
