>> BUT JUST FROM OBSERVATIONAL SAKE, IT LOOKS LIKE THIS RUSSIAN ARMY IS NOT PERFORMING VERY WELL. WHAT DO YOU KNOW? >> SO SOURCES HAVE BEEN TELLING ME, SOURCES THAT ARE WELL-CONNECTED TO THE RUSSIAN SECURITY SERVICES, THAT THE OFFENSIVE IS NOT GOING WELL, THAT SOME SPECIAL FORCES, THE RUSSIAN PESNAPS ARE FURIOUS BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN SENT INTO BATTLE WITHOUT PROPER SUPPORT AND MANY HAVE BEEN KILLED. THEY SAID THE NATIONAL GUARD FORCES AND THE REGULAR ARMY, WHICH INCLUDES THE CHECHEN UNITS, THE TWO ARE NOT COORDINATING, AND THAT THE PLAN IS DISJOINTED, THAT IT'S PARTLY A PLAN FOR WAR AND PARTLY A PLAN FOR PEACEKEEPING AND DENAZIFICATION IN THIS COUNTRY THAT HAS LED TIE LACK OF COHESION. A LOT OF THIS GOES BACK TO THE MAN WHO IS BEHIND IT ALL, VLADIMIR PUTIN, WHO I'M TOLD IS INCREASINGLY ISOLATED, IS JUST TAKING ADVICE FROM HIS INNER CIRCLE THAT THERE ARE ONLY ABOUT THREE PEOPLE THAT MATTER RIGHT NOW, AND THAT SPEECH, YOU MENTIONED IT A SHORT WHILE AGO THAT PUTIN GAVE YESTERDAY, A BIZARRE LOCATION, SPEAKING IN ARAFAT TO A GROUP OF FLIGHT ATTENDANTS, HE SOUNDED INCREDIBLY ANGRY. HE SOUNDED DETACHED. HE WAS TALKING ABOUT HOW THE UKRAINIANS HERE ARE MACHINE GUNNING PEOPLE, THAT THEY'RE DRIVING AROUND IN CARS PACKED WITH EXPLOSIVES JIHADI STYLE, AND HE WENT VERY DEEP AND REPEATEDLY ON THIS THEME THAT THEY'RE FIGHTING AGAINST THE NAZIS. IT'S THE ANGRIEST I'VE EVER SEEN HIM. >> RICHARD ENGEL IN KYIV. A REMINDER THIS IS RUSSIA'S WAR RIGHT NOW. >>> KELLY COBIELLA IS ON THE BORDER OF POLAND. HOW IS PUTIN GOING TO HANDLE THIS, AND ARE WE GOING TO SEE PEOPLE TAKEN TO OTHER COUNTRIES BECAUSE POLAND CAN'T HANDLE EVERYBODY COMING OVER ITS BORDER? >> Reporter: CHUCK, THE NUMBERS ARE JUST ASTOUNDING. WE SAW THE NUMBERS YESTERDAY FROM THE POLISH BORDER GUARD. 129,000 PEOPLE ARRIVING IN THIS COUNTRY IN ONE DAY. MOST OF THEM ARE WOMEN AND CHILDREN. THEY'RE ARRIVING WITH NOTHING. THEY NEED A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF SUPPORT, NOT JUST IN FOOD, MEDICINE, A PLACE TO REST, A PLACE TO LIVE, BUT ALSO EMOTIONAL SUPPORT. A LOT OF THEM ARE DEEPLY TRAUMATIZED BY WHAT THEY'VE BEEN THROUGH. THE VOLUNTEER GROUPS WHO HAVE BEEN ORGANIZING THE RESPONSE OVER THE PAST NINE DAYS OR SO SAY THEY ARE NOW STARTING TO GET OVERWHELMED. JUST WHEN THEY CATCH THEIR BREATH FROM A WAVE OF REFUGEES COMING ACROSS, THERE IS ANOTHER DAY AND ANOTHER WAVE. AND PEOPLE REALLY ARE DETERMINED TO GET HERE, CHUCK. WE SPOKE TO A FAMILY JUST A FEW MINUTES AGO WHO ARRIVED TODAY. THEY ARRIVED FROM KHARKIV. THEY SAID THEY WERE WAITING ON A TRAIN STATION. THEY SAW WHAT THEY THOUGHT WAS A MISSILE STRIKE AND NOBODY DOVE FOR COVER BECAUSE THEY WERE THAT DESPERATE TO GET A SPOT ON THE TRAIN. THESE PEOPLE ARE STILL IN DISBELIEF AS TO HOW THEY'VE ENDED UP HERE. ONE WOMAN, I ASKED, WHAT DO YOU NEED MOST? AND SHE SAID, I NEED THE WAR TO END SO I CAN GO HOME. CHUCK? >> KELLY COBIELLA IN POLAND FOR US. JUST A REMINDER, TWO WEEKS AGO THESE PEOPLE WERE LIVING VERY FIRST WORLD LIVES. >>> JOINING ME NOW FROM MULDOVA IS SECRETARY BLINKEN. I ASSUME HE MADE SOME SIMILAR ASKS IN HIS PHONE CALL WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN. NO FLY ZONE, LETHAL AID, A BAN ON OIL IMPORTS. I WANT TO START WITH THE NO FLY ZONE. THIS IDEA OF PLANES, U.S. FIGHTER JETS TO POLAND. IN EXCHANGE POLAND SENDS RUSSIAN-MADE JETS TO UKRAINE. IS THAT GOING TO HAPPEN, AND HOW QUICKLY CAN IT HAPPEN? >> FIRST LET ME SAY THIS. PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY HAS BEEN A REMARKABLE LEADER. HE'S BEEN THE EMBODIMENT OF THE UKRANIAN PEOPLE AND PRESIDENT BIDEN ADDRESSED THIS YESTERDAY. ON THE QUESTION OF PLANES, WE'RE TALKING VERY ACTIVELY ABOUT THIS, LOOKING AT WHAT WE COULD DO TO BACKFILL POLAND IF IT CHOOSES TO SEND THE MIGS AND THE PLANES, WHAT WE COULD DO TO BACKFILL TO UKRAINE. >> YOU SAID IF. THAT'S A POLAND DECISION, NOT A NATO DECISION? >> IT'S A SOVEREIGN DECISION BY POLAND IF THEY CHOOSE TO DO IT. WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE CAN HELP THEM AND, AGAIN, BACKFILL WHAT THEY ARE GIVING SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY LOSS IN THEIR OWN ABILITY TO PROVIDE SECURITY. >> SO IF ANY OF THESE NATO NATIONS WHO HAVE THESE RUSSIAN-MADE PLANES DONATE THEM TO UKRAINE, WE'RE GOING TO BACKFILL THEM IF THEY'RE NATIVE ALLIES? >> WE WOULD HAVE TO WORK ON EACH CASE ON ITS OWN MERITS, HAVE TO MAKE SURE WE CAN DO SOMETHING IF THAT'S WHAT THE COUNTRY IS REQUESTING IN TURN FOR SHARING THE JETS THAT THEY HAVE. >> LET'S START WITH THE BAN ON OIL IMPORTS. I KNOW AS LATE AS LAST WEEK, THERE WAS STILL -- THE ADMINISTRATION WAS SAYING, NO, WE CAN'T DO THE 100% BAN. HAS YOUR MIND CHANGED? HAS THE ADMINISTRATION'S MIND CHANGED ON THIS? ARE YOU LOOKING AT A FULL EMBARGO ON RUSSIAN GAS AND OIL? >> CHUCK, I SPOKE TO THE PRESIDENT AND THE CABINET, THE LEADING MEMBERS OF THE CABINET ABOUT THIS JUST YESTERDAY FROM EUROPE. AND WE ARE NOW IN VERY ACTIVE DISCUSSIONS WITH OUR EUROPEAN PARTNERS ABOUT BANNING THE IMPORT OF RUSSIAN OIL TO OUR COUNTRIES, WHILE, OF COURSE, AT THE SAME TIME MAINTAINING A STEADY GLOBAL SUPPLY OF OIL. THE ACTIONS WE'VE TAKEN TO DATE HAVE ALREADY HAD A DEVASTATING IMPACT ON THE RUSSIAN ECONOMY. WE SEE THE RUBLE IN FREEFALL, WE SEE THE ECONOMY HEADING INTO A DEEP RECESSION, WE'VE ALREADY HAD A MAJOR IMPACT. BUT WE ARE LOOKING, AGAIN, AS WE SPEAK, IN COORDINATION WITH ALLIES AND PARTNERS AT THIS PROSPECT OF BANNING OIL IMPORTS. >> IT'S INTERESTING YOU ADDED THE "IN COORDINATION." WE WILL NOT DO THIS UNILATERALLY, THE UNITED STATES IS NOT GOING TO DO THIS UNILATERALLY? >> A HALLMARK OF EVERYTHING WE'VE DONE TO DATE HAS BEEN IN COORDINATION WITH ALLIES AND PARTNERS. WE ARE MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE ACROSS THE BOARD WHEN WE'RE DOING THINGS TOGETHER IN AS CLOSE COORDINATION AS POSSIBLE. THERE ARE INSTANCES WHERE WE EACH DO SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT, BUT IT COMPLEMENTS THE WHOLE. IN THE FIRST INSTANCE, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'RE ACTING IN COORDINATION. I'M NOT GOING TO RULE OUT TAKING ACTION ONE WAY OR ANOTHER IRRESPECTIVE OF WHAT THEY DO, BUT EVERYTHING WE'VE DONE, THE APPROACH STARTS WITH COORDINATING ALLIES AND PARTNERS. >> AND OTHER WAY OF RATCHETING THINGS UP ON THE RUSSIANS, ZELENSKYY SUGGESTED TERMINATING RUSSIA'S STATUS. IS THAT SOMETHING WE'RE CONSIDERING? >> LOOK, CHUCK, LET ME SAY THIS. THERE ARE A SERIES OF THINGS THAT ARE OUT THERE THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT TO CONTINUE TO RATCHET UP THE PRESSURE ON VLADIMIR PUTIN FOR THE PURPOSES OF GETTING HIM TO END THIS AGGRESSION AGAINST UKRAINE, TO STOP THIS WAR, TO STOP THE KILLING, TO STOP THE SUFFERING. AND THERE ARE, AS I SAID, EXTRAORDINARY MEASURES THAT WE'VE ALREADY TAKEN. WE SAID MANY MONTHS AGO, WHEN ALL OF THIS STARTED, AND WE WARNED THAT PUTIN WAS THREATENING THIS AGGRESSION. WE SAID IF HE PURSUED IT, THERE WOULD BE MASSIVE CONSEQUENCES FOR RUSSIA, AND WE'VE DELIVERED ON THAT PROMISE. YOU SEE IT AGAIN IN EVERYTHING THAT'S HAPPENING TO THE RUSSIAN ECONOMY. BUT IF THERE ARE THINGS THAT REMAIN TO DO TO INCREASE THE PRESSURE, IF HE'S UNWILLING TO STOP THE AGGRESSION, WE'RE GOING TO DO THEM. SO WE WILL LOOK AT EACH AND EVERY ONE, DECIDE TOGETHER WITH OUR ALLIES AND PARTNERS WHAT'S MOST EFFECTIVE, WHEN WE SHOULD DO IT, AND WE'LL PROCEED IN THAT WAY. >> I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE NO FLY ZONE. LET ME QUOTE PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY ON TELEGRAM ON FRIDAY. HE ESSENTIALLY SENT THIS OUT ON SOCIAL MEDIA. ALL THE PEOPLE WHO WILL DIE STARTING THIS DAY WILL ALSO DIE BECAUSE OF YOU. HE'S ADDRESSING THE WEST. BECAUSE OF YOUR WEAKNESS, BECAUSE OF YOUR DISUNITY. TODAY THE ALLIANCE GAVE OKAY TO FURTHER BOMBING BY REFUSING TO MAKE A NO FLY ZONE. I UNDERSTAND IT'S AN EMOTIONAL STATEMENT. I UNDERSTAND YOU'VE HAD DIFFERENT CONVERSATIONS THERE. WHY NOT RULE OUT THE NO FLY ZONE? WHY NOT MAKE PUTIN THINK IT'S POSSIBLE? >> BECAUSE, AGAIN, MY ADMIRATION FOR PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY HAS NO BOUNDS. IF I WERE IN HIS SHOES, I WOULD BE ASKING AND LOOKING FOR EVERYTHING POSSIBLE FROM EVERYONE IN EVERY PLACE AROUND THE WORLD. AND AS I SAID, WHAT WE'VE ALREADY DONE IS EXTRAORDINARY, AND JUST TO REMIND PEOPLE, OVER THE PAST YEAR ALONE, FROM THE UNITED STATES ALONE, MORE THAN A BILLION DOLLARS IN SECURITY ASSISTANCE, LETHAL DEFENSIVE WEAPONS THAT ARE BEING PUT TO VERY EFFECTIVE SERVICE BY UKRAINIANS NOW IN DEFENSE OF THEIR COUNTRY, AND OTHER MEASURES WE'RE LOOKING AT GOING FORWARD. JUST IN THE LAST WEEK ALONE, CHUCK, WE HAVE DELIVERED MORE THAN $200 MILLION WORTH OF SECURITY ASSISTANCE INTO THE HANDS OF UKRAINIANS. ALL OF THAT IS ONGOING, ALL OF THAT IS CONTINUING. THE PRESIDENT HAS BEEN CLEAR ABOUT ONE THING ALL ALONG AS WELL, WHICH IS WE'RE NOT GOING TO PUT THE UNITED STATES IN DIRECT CONFLICT WITH RUSSIA, NOT HAVE AMERICAN PLANES FLYING AGAINST RUSSIAN PLANES OR OUR SOLDIERS ON THE GROUND IN UKRAINE, BECAUSE FOR EVERYTHING WE'RE DOING FOR UKRAINE, THE PRESIDENT ALSO HAS A RESPONSIBILITY TO NOT GET US INTO A DIRECT CONFLICT, A DIRECT WAR WITH RUSSIA, A NUCLEAR POWER, AND RISK A WAR THAT EXPANDS EVEN BEYOND UKRAINE TO EUROPE. THAT'S NOT OUR INTEREST. WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS END THIS WAR IN UKRAINE, NOT START A LARGER ONE. >> LET ME ASK YOU THIS -- >> KEEP IN MIND WHAT A NO FLY ZONE -- JUST SO PEOPLE UNDERSTAND, TOO, WHAT A NO FLY ZONE MEANS. IT MEANS IF YOU DECLARE A SPACE NO FLY AND A RUSSIAN PLANE FLIES THROUGH IT, IT MEANS WE HAVE TO SHOOT IT DOWN. >> LET ME ASK THE QUESTION THIS WAY. WE'RE GETTING TOWARDS THE END OF THE SECOND WEEK OF THIS CONFLICT. CAN THIS STILL END DIPLOMATICALLY WITH VLADIMIR PUTIN IN CHARGE OF RUSSIA? >> YOU KNOW, HOW THIS ENDS IS AN IMPORTANT QUESTION, AND I WISH THAT WE COULD SEE SIGNS THAT PRESIDENT PUTIN WAS WILLING TO ENGAGE DIPLOMATICALLY TO BRING THIS AGGRESSION TO A CLOSE. RIGHT NOW WE'RE NOT SEEING HIM. HE WAS ON THE PHONE, PRESIDENT PUTIN, WITH PRESIDENT MACRON OF FRANCE A COUPLE DAYS AGO, AND BY ALL ACCOUNTS, ACCORDING TO THE FRENCH, HE'S DIGGING IN AND DOUBLING DOWN. AND I THINK WE HAVE TO BE READY THAT THIS COULD GO ON FOR SOME WHILE. THE SHEER FORCE THAT RUSSIA CAN BRING TO BEAR, THE MANPOWER, THE EXPANSE IN ITS MILITARY, HAS THE POTENTIAL TO KEEP GRINDING DOWN THESE INCREDIBLY BRAVE AND RESILIENT UKRAINIANS. BUT HERE'S THE THING. WINNING A BATTLE IS NOT WINNING A WAR. TAKING A CITY IS NOT TAKING THE HEARTS AND MINDS OF UKRAINIANS. WHAT WE'VE LEARNED THE PAST COUPLE WEEKS IS THEY WILL FIGHT TO THE END FOR THEIR COUNTRY. IF IT TAKES A WEEK, IF IT TAKES A MONTH, IF IT TAKES A YEAR. HE HAS NO PLAN, PUTIN, FOR HOW THIS ACTUALLY ENDS ON HIS TERMS. HE CAN'T IMPOSE HIS WILL AND RUSSIA'S WILL ON 45 MILLION UKRAINIANS. THEY'VE CLEARLY DEMONSTRATED THAT. BUT IT MAY TAKE SOME CONSIDERABLE TIME TO PLAY OUT. WE WANT IT TO END AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE WITH UKRAINE HAVING ITS INDEPENDENCE, ITS TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY, ITS SOVEREIGNTY. BUT I THINK WE NEED TO BE PREPARED FOR THIS GOING ON FOR SOME TIME. >> SECRETARY ANTONY BLINKEN, I KNOW YOU'RE BUSY, I KNOW YOU HAVE YET ANOTHER PLANE TO CATCH. THANK YOU FOR COMING ON TO SHARE YOUR PERSPECTIVE. >> THANK YOU, CHUCK. GOOD TO BE WITH YOU. >>> JOINING ME NOW IS SECRETARY MANCHIN OF WEST VIRGINIA. HE CHAIRS THE NATIONAL RESOURCES COMMITTEE. WELCOME BACK. >> THANK YOU, CHUCK. >> YOU WERE ON THIS ZOOM WITH PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY YESTERDAY. BEFORE I GET INTO THE DETAILS, WHAT WAS THAT LIKE WITH HIM? WHAT DID HE SAY TO YOU GUYS? >> IT WAS SO SURREAL, BUT TO HAVE A PERSON ON THE FRONT LINES TAKING MORTARS EVERY DAY AND BASICALLY SEEING HIS PEOPLE BEING SLAUGHTERED AND WILLING TO WITHSTAND ALL OF THIS AND FIGHT BACK AND ALL HE ASKED FOR WAS BASICALLY JUST HELP ME. I'LL FIGHT MY OWN FIGHT, JUST GIVE ME THE TOOLS TO DO IT. AND FOR US TO HESITATE OR ANYONE TO HESITATE IN THE FREE WORLD IS WRONG. AND HE SAID THAT. HE SAYS, IF UKRAINE FALLS, EUROPE MAY FALL. >> WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR YOU? WOULD YOU SUPPORT A NO FLY ZONE? WOULD YOU SUPPORT DOING THIS WHICH COULD TRIGGER A WIDER CONFLICT? >> I UNDERSTAND, BUT YOU DON'T SIGNAL TO A NEMESIS. THIS IS PUTIN'S WAR, THIS IS NOT THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE'S WAR. THIS IS PUTIN'S WAR AND REQUESTS FOR ANYTHING IT MIGHT BE. BUT TO TAKE THEM OFF THE TABLE BECAUSE WE'VE ALREADY USED THINGS IS WRONG. I WOULD TAKE NOTHING OFF THE TABLE, BUT I WOULD BE VERY CLEAR WE'RE GOING TO SUPPORT THE UKRANIAN PEOPLE IN EVERY WAY POSSIBLE. ZELENSKYY WAS VERY CLEAR. HE SAID, WE DON'T NEED YOU TO FIGHT OUR FIGHT. WE DON'T NEED YOU TO FLY YOUR PLANES INTO THE WAR ZONE. WE NEED PLANES WE CAN FLY OURSELVES. >> THAT DEAL SEEMS TO BE IN MOTION, RIGHT, THE TRADING OF JETS WITH THE POLES, RIGHT? >> YES. >> YOU HEARD ZELENSKYY SAYING, WE'RE IN FAVOR OF IT IF THE ENTIRE ALLIANCE DOES IT, TOO, WHICH SOUNDS LIKE THERE IS AN INTEREST IN DOING IT UNILATERALLY. IS THERE SUPPORT IN CONGRESS FOR UNILATERAL? >> THE PEOPLE IN MY STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA THINK IT'S FOOLISH FOR US TO KEEP BUYING PRODUCTS AND KEEP GIVING MONEY TO PUTIN TO BE ABLE TO USE AGAINST THE UKRANIAN PEOPLE. THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HE'S DOING, SO WHY WOULDN'T WE LEAVE? >>> INFLATION HASN'T WREAKED HAVOC ON IT NOW, AND WE'RE SAYING IT MIGHT GO UP A LITTLE BIT MORE? IT MIGHT GO UP, ANYWAY, AND WE HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING. I'M AT LEAST READY TO SAY WHATEVER IT WILL TAKE, WE'LL RAMP UP THE ENERGY, PRODUCE THE OIL, THE NATURAL GAS, BUILD THE PIPELINES. WE'VE BEEN STYMIED. WE CAN'T GET ANYTHING DONE. WE CAN DO THE ENERGY WE NEED AS FAR AS IN THIS FOSSIL WORLD THAT WE LIVE IN AND DO IT CLEANER THAN ANYBODY ELSE IN THE WORLD IN INNOVATION, BUT WE CAN ALSO TRANSITION TO A CLEANER TECHNOLOGY. >> IS THIS THE PRICE OF YOUR INVOLVEMENT ON NEW TALKS IN RECONCILIATION WITH THE PRESIDENT SAYING, LOOK, YOU SORT OF OUTLINED SOME TOP LINES. HE NEEDS TO LOWER THE DEFICIT, I'D LIKE TO DO PRESCRIPTION DRUGS, AND IF THERE'S ANYTHING LEFT WE CAN TALK ABOUT OTHER THINGS, BUT YOU ALSO HAD A BIG CIRCLE AROUND ENERGY INDEPENDENCE THERE. YOU WANT TO SEE AN INCREASE IN ENERGY PRODUCTION BEFORE YOU'LL SIT DOWN WITH BIDEN? >> LET ME SAY SOMETHING, WHAT I WORRY ABOUT EVERY DAY IS INFLATION. IT'S AFFECTING EVERY AMERICAN I KNOW OF. THE HIGH PRICES THEY CAN'T SUSTAIN AND IT'S HURTING PEOPLE WORKING THE MOST, PEOPLE TRYING TO MAKE A LIVING. THEY NEED HELP, SO INFLATION IS THE NUMBER ONE THING. BASICALLY SUPPORTING UKRAINE AND SAVING FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY AROUND THE WORLD, BECAUSE IT WILL PERMEATE IF WE DON'T STOP IT. WE CAN DO ALL OF THIS, BUT YOU HAVE TO GET YOUR FINANCIAL HOUSE IN ORDER. MY GRANDFATHER ALWAYS SAID, JOE, UNMANAGED YOU WILL MAKE A COWARDLY DECISION. WE HAVE TO GET THAT UNDER CONTROL. >> DOES THIS WAR IN EUROPE MAKE IT HARDER TO DO THIS DEAL WITH THE PRESIDENT OR EASIER? >> I THINK IT MAKES IT MORE REALISTIC. THIS IS THE REAL WORLD. WE KEEP TALKING ABOUT EXASPIRATIONAL THINGS WE WANT TO DO, WHETHER IT'S THE FAR RIGHT OR THE FAR LEFT. FORGET ASPIRATION. GLOBAL CLIMATE IS GLOBAL. IT'S NOT NORTH AMERICAN, IT'S NOT THE UNITED STATES ONLY, IT'S GLOBAL. OUR ENERGY THAT WE PRODUCE IN AMERICA IS BETTER AND CLEANER THAN ANYTHING ELSE IN THE WORLD. ANYTHING WE BACKFILL WILL BE BETTER THAT THEY PRODUCE. WE'VE GOT BASICALLY REQUESTS FOR PERMITS THAT ARE STILL STANDING AND WE HAVEN'T BEEN GIVEN. I'VE GOT A MOUNTAIN VALLEY PIPELINE IN THE STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA THAT WILL TAKE 2 BILLION CUBIC FEET A DAY INTO THE MARKETPLACE IMMEDIATELY. IT'S 95% DONE, I CAN'T GET IT DONE. >> WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THOSE WHO SAY IF WE CONTINUE TO USE FOSSIL FUEL INFRASTRUCTURE, IT WILL BE HARDER TO CLEAN? >> WE CAN DO MUCH WITH THAT. IT'S A CLEAN TECHNOLOGY WE'RE GOING FOR. IT'S ALMOST LIKE IF YOU DON'T STOP THIS, YOU WON'T DO THIS. THAT'S NOT RIGHT, CHUCK. >> WHO ARE YOU NEGOTIATING WITH, THE PRESIDENT OR SENATOR SCHUMER? >> WE VOTED AGAINST THE 2017 REPUBLICAN TAX CUTS. WE THOUGHT THEY WERE WEIGHTED UNFAIRLY. IF YOU HAVE ONE THING YOU'RE UNITED ON, FIX IT. >> SENATOR MANCHIN, DEMOCRAT IN WASHINGTON, WE APPRECIATE IT. >> THANK YOU. >>> WHEN WE COME BACK, WE'LL TALK TO FORMER AMBASSADOR NIKKI HALEY, A P >>> NIKKI HALEY ON WONDERS IF IT'S POSSIBLE TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT IN 2024. NIKKI HALEY, WELCOME BACK TO "MEET THE PRESS." >> THANK YOU HAVING ME ON. >> LET ME ASK WHAT I ASKED SECRETARY BLINKEN. CAN THIS WAR BE BROUGHT TO AN END WITH PUTIN IN CHARGE IN RUSSIA? >> PUTIN IS GOING TO TRY. HE'S GOING TO DRAG THIS OUT AS LONG AS HE CAN. HE'S COMMITTED. HE IS AN EVIL TYRANT THAT WE SEE IS NOT GOING TO STOP UNTIL HE CAN CONTROL THE SOVIET EMPIRE. WHAT WE HAVE LEARNED IN THE LESSON IN ALL OF THIS IS, WHEN TYRANTS SPEAK, WE SHOULD LISTEN. HE SAID HE WOULD TAKE UKRAINE, HE IS. CHINA SAID THEY WOULD TAKE HONG KONG, THEY DID. HE SAID HE WOULD TAKE POLAND AND THE BALTICS, WE SHOULD LISTEN TO THAT. IRAN SAID THEY WOULD DESTROY ISRAEL. EVERY TIME A TYRANT SPEAKS, WE NEED TO REMEMBER THEY TOLD US, WE NEED TO LISTEN. >> YOU SOUND LIKE SOMEBODY, THEN, THAT WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF A NO FLY ZONE OVER UKRAINE RIGHT NOW. IF PUTIN IS WHAT YOU DESCRIBE HIM AS, WHAT -- I GUESS WHAT GUARDRAIL SHOULD WE BE BUTTING -- PUTTING ON THE NATO ALLIANCE RIGHT NOW? >> NO, I'M NOT IN FAVOR OF A NO FLY ZONE RIGHT NOW. WHAT I AM IN FAVOR OF IS THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION STEPPING UP AND DOING THE THINGS THAT WILL MATTER. WE KNOW THE ONE THING THAT PUNCHES PUTIN IN THE GUT IS TO HIT HIS ENERGY SECTOR. THERE IS NO REASON WE SHOULD BE TAKING MONEY FROM AN ENEMY. WE SHOULD GO AHEAD AND SANCTION ALL THOSE ENERGY COMPANIES RIGHT NOW. WE SHOULD REMOVE HIM FROM THE INTERNATIONAL BANKING SYSTEM. WE SHOULD BE COORDINATING INTELLIGENCE IN REALTIME WITH THE UKRANIANS. WE SHOULD BE LEADING WITH NATO TELLING THEM TO GIVE THE PLANES TO UKRAINE. WE SHOULD BE MAKING SURE WE'RE MOVING FORWARD ON GIVING THEM THE MISSILES THEY NEED. THEY HAVE SAID THEY DON'T HAVE WHAT THEY NEED. THEY NEED JAVELINS, THEY NEED STINGERS, THEY NEED ANTI-TANK TOOLS TO DO THIS. WE'RE LATE TO THE GAME, WE'RE STILL LATE TO THE GAME. IT'S NOT TOO LATE NOW, BUT WE'VE GOT TO GET ON THE BALL. >> ONE COULD ARGUE THERE'S BEEN 20 YEARS OF APPEASING PUTIN, THAT THERE WAS THIS BELIEF HE COULD BE PART OF THE WORLD ORDER. WAS THAT A MISTAKE FROM THE GET-GO? >> NO. I'VE ALWAYS SAID THAT YOU CANNOT TRUST RUSSIA, YOU CANNOT TRUST PUTIN. YOU CAN'T TRUST XI, YOU CAN'T TRUST CHINA. IT'S COMMON SENSE. I DEALT WITH THEM AT THE UNITED NATIONS. YOU NEVER NEGOTIATE, YOU NEVER DEAL WITH YOUR ENEMIES. YOU CAN'T TRUST THEM. THAT'S WHY I WAS MORTIFIED THAT BIDEN WENT SO FAR AS ASKING CHINA FOR HELP WITH RUSSIA. YOU NEVER ASK AN ENEMY FOR HELP WITH ANOTHER ENEMY. I NEVER TOLD CHINA ANYTHING THAT I DIDN'T WANT RUSSIA TO KNOW, BECAUSE YOU KNOW HOW THEY COORDINATE. IT'S THE SAME REASON WHY IT'S UNTHINKABLE THAT BIDEN WOULD BE COORDINATING OR EVEN THINKING OF GETTING BACK INTO THE IRAN DEAL WITH THE RUSSIANS AND CHINESE AT THE TABLE. WHY ARE WE NEGOTIATING AND TRUSTING ENEMIES? YOU DON'T DO THAT. THAT'S THE FIRST START TO BEING STRONG IN AMERICA IS UNDERSTANDING WHO YOUR ENEMIES ARE AND MAKE SURE YOU LET THEM KNOW THAT YOU UNDERSTAND THEM. >> SO IF YOU -- YOU WOULD TREAT CHINA AS AN ENEMY, NOT AS A RIVAL, IF YOU WILL? YOU WOULDN'T WORK WITH THEM DIPLOMATICALLY AT ALL IF YOU WERE IN CHARGE RIGHT NOW? >> DO YOU KNOW -- CHINA RIGHT NOW HAS COORDINATED WITH RUSSIA. WHEN BIDEN WENT AND TOLD CHINA WHAT WAS GOING ON AND ASKED FOR HELP WITH RUSSIA, WHAT DID CHINA DO? CHINA RAN AND TOLD RUSSIA. I WATCHED IT AT THE UNITED NATIONS. THOSE TWO COUNTRIES ARE GETTING INCREDIBLY CLOSE. THEY DON'T LIKE EACH OTHER, THEY DON'T TRUST EACH OTHER, BUT THEY BOTH WANT TO DESTROY THE WEST. WHY ARE WE WAITING FOR THAT TO HAPPEN? CHINA, WHEN THEY TAKE TAIWAN, THIS IS GOING TO BLOW UP. THEY ARE CONTROLLING HALF THE SEMICONDUCTOR TIPS. THEY USE COMPUTERS, THEY DRIVE CARS. ALL OF THAT WILL BE DISRUPTED. WHY ARE WE RELYING ON CHINA TO GIVE US MEDICAL SUPPLIES WHEN WE SAW HOW THEY HANDLED COVID IN THE WORLD? WE HAVE TO WAKE UP, AMERICA HAS TO WAKE UP, AND WE HAVE TO START BEING SMART TO DEAL WITH THESE TYRANTS. WE CAN'T CONTINUE TO LET THEM RUN ALL OVER US. >> LET ME PLAY THIS BY FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE. HE SAID, THERE IS NO ROOM IN THIS PARTY FOR APOLOGISTS FOR PUTIN. EVER SINCE HE ACTUALLY INVADED, SOME OF THOSE FOLKS HAVE TAKEN SOME OF THOSE THINGS BACK. FOR THOSE WHO SAY THAT, INCLUDING YOUR FORMER BOSS, PRESIDENT TRUMP, WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THEM? >> MY VERY FIRST SPEECH IN THE UNITED NATIONS WAS HITTING RUSSIA. PROTOCOL WITH THE UNITED NATIONS WAS TO MEET WITH THE RUSSIAN AMBASSADOR FIRST AND I PURPOSELY MET WITH THE UNITED NATIONS FIRST. WHETHER HE ASSISTS ASSAD WITH CHEMICAL WEAPONS IN SYRIA, HE HAS SHOWN US TIME AND AGAIN THAT HE IS EVIL. WHAT I WILL TELL YOU ABOUT PRESIDENT TRUMP, AS MUCH AS EVERYBODY WANTS TO TALK ABOUT WHAT HE SAYS, I LOOK AT WHAT HE DID. HE SANCTIONED RUSSIA, HE EXPELLED DIPLOMATS, HE SHUT OFF NORD STREAM 2 WHICH IS WHAT PUTIN WANTED. ALL OF THESE THINGS PUTIN ENCOUNTERED RUSSIA. THIS NEVER WOULD HAVE HAPPENED UNDER TRUMP. WHAT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT NOW IS HOW DO WE MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T GO FURTHER UNDER BIDEN? THIS IS A TERRIBLE MISTAKE THAT STARTED IN AFGHANISTAN. TIME AFTER TIME WE'VE SHOWN NOTHING BUT WEAKNESS. WE HAVE TO SHOW STRENGTH. YOU CAN TALK ABOUT PAST PRESIDENTS ALL YOU WANT, BUT THE LAST THING YOU NEED TO BE DOING IS LOOKING FOR THE TV REMOTE WHEN YOUR HOUSE IS BURNING DOWN. WE'VE GOT TO START DEALING WITH THE SITUATION AT HAND. >> AMBASSADOR, YOU SORT OF IMPLY THAT IT WAS BIDEN'S WEAKNESS ON AFGHANISTAN, BUT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, TRUMP PERSONALLY TRIED TO ROLL BACK SANCTIONS ON RUSSIA IN 2017. THEY TRIED TO LOBBY CONGRESS. HE TRIED TO REMOVE SANCTIOS ON A RUSSIAN OLIGARCH COMPANY, AND LET'S NOT FORGET HOLDING UKRANIAN MILITARY AID HOSTAGE FOR A POLITICAL STUNT. YOU DON'T THINK ANY OF THOSE THINGS SENT A MESSAGE TO VLADIMIR PUTIN THAT AMERICA IS DIVIDED, THE WEST IS DIVIDED AND HE CAN GET AWAY WITH ANYTHING HE WANTS. >> YOU KEPT SAYING HE TRIED. ALL I KNOW IS WHAT HE DID. I WAS PERSONALLY THERE IN THE UNITED NATIONS WHEN HE GOT OUT OF THE IRAN DEAL, WHEN HE EXPELLED DIPLOMATS, WHEN HE REFUSED NORD STREAM 2 PIPELINE. HE DID STRONGER THINGS AGAINST RUSSIA THAN REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTS BEFORE HIM. THIS IS SOMETHING PUTIN KNEW NOT TO MESS WITH THE UNITED STATES. PUTIN NEEDS TO KNOW THAT AGAIN. WE NEED TO START STANDING UP. WHY ARE WE EVEN HO-HUMMING AROUND THE FACT THAT WE'RE STILL TAKING RUSSIAN OIL? WHY ARE WE DOING THAT? WHY WOULD WE TAKE MONEY FROM EVIL DICTATORS? YOU NEVER SLEEP WITH THE DEVIL BECAUSE THEN THE DEVIL OWNS YOU. THE EUROPEANS ARE FINDING THAT OUT RIGHT NOW. WE NEED TO BE SMARTER THAN THAT. >> NIKKI HALEY, WE APPRECIATE YOU BEING ON AND SHARING YOUR PERSPECTIVE. VERY QUICKLY, DOES PRESIDENT TRUMP'S 2024 PLANS IMPACT YOUR 2024 PLANS? >> I HAVE SAID B . >>> WELCOME BACK. WESTERN NATIONS HAVE REJECTED VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY'S CALL FOR A NO FLY ZONE OVER UKRAINE. THEY ALSO SAID A BAN ON PURCHASING RUSSIAN OIL WOULD HAVE GREATER IMPACT ON SANCTIONS. JAMES STAVRIDIS IS A RETIRED ADMIRAL, AND FIONA HILL HAS A NEW BOOK OUT. FIONA, I WANT YOU TO RESPOND TO AMBASSADOR HALEY ABOUT WHAT SHE SAID ABOUT BIDEN'S RECORDS ON PUTIN'S SANCTIONS. HOW WOULD DESCRIBE HIS EFFORTS WHEN IT COMES TO PUTIN? >> CERTAINLY THERE WAS MORE BILATERAL ADMINISTRATION BY CONGRESS AND BY THE UNITED NATIONS. ONE THING THAT SUMS IT UP THAT YOU TOUCHED ON IS THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP, AT A CRITICAL PERIOD, WITHHELD MILITARY ASSISTANCE THAT WAS DESPERATE AT THAT PARTICULAR JUNCTURE, BASICALLY GETTING ZELENSKYY TO DO A PERSONAL FAVOR. >> WHAT'S THE MESSAGE TO ZELENSKYY? >> THAT NOBODY WAS REALLY SERIOUS ABOUT PROTECTING UKRAINE, AND THAT WAS A SIGN OF WEAKNESS. OUR POLICY WAS ON INFIGHTING. PUTIN IS QUITE SHOCKED NOW TO THINK WE HAVE SOME COLLECTIVE ACTION TOGETHER. >> JAMES, I WANT YOU TO LISTEN TO KIRA RUDIK. >> THE NEXT STEP WE NEED TO SEE IS A NO FLY ZONE OVER UKRAINE. I KNOW PEOPLE ARE SAYING, NO, NO, A THIRD WORLD WAR WILL START. I WILL BE BLUNT WITH YOU. IT HAS ALREADY STARTED. >> WE HAVE THE MAP UP. LOGISTICALLY, WHY CAN'T WE DO THIS? >> LET ME START ON THE BACK END. IT'S QUITE OBVIOUS IF WE PUT U.S. NATO JETS IN THE AIR ENFORCING A NO FLY ZONE, THEY'LL BE GOING NOSE TO NOSE WITH RUSSIAN FIGHTER AIRCRAFT, DOWN THAT PATH, THE POTENTIAL FOR MISCALCULATION AND A WAR BETWEEN NATO AND RUSSIA AND A WAR BETWEEN RUSSIA AND THE UNITED STATES RISES SIGNIFICANTLY. LOOK, I IMPLEMENTED A NO FLY ZONE. I KNOW HOW TO DO THIS. I DID IT IN LIBYA IN 2011. CAN WE DO IT? SURE. SHOULD WE? NOT YET. BUT FINAL POINT, CHUCK, WHAT WE OUGHT TO DO IS GIVE THE UKRANIANS THE ABILITY TO FLY. GET THOSE MIG 25s IN THEIR HANDS. >> DOES NATO HAVE ENOUGH OF THEM TO GIVE THE UKRANIANS A CHANCE AT AIR SUPERIORITY? >> YES. AND BY THE WAY, TAKE A LOOK AT NATO COMBAT AIRCRAFT. WE HAVE OVER 25,000. RUSSIAN COMBAT AIRCRAFT, AROUND 5,000. WE OUTNUMBER THEM 5-1 AS AN ALLIANCE. WE OUTSPEND THEM 15-1. WE OUTNUMBER THEM IN GROUND TROOPS 4-1. HE'S NOT GOING TO CROSS A NATO BORDER IN ANGER, BUT WE OUGHT TO DO ALL WE CAN TO SUPPORT THE UKRANIANS. >> THE LINDSEY GRAHAM TWEET SAYS FRANKLY WE NEED TO TAKE THIS GUY OUT. IT WAS A SOLUTION ON A PODCAST A FEW WEEKS AGO. DO YOU EXPECT PUTIN TO LEAVE RUSSIA IF THIS WAR ENDS? >> LOOK, I THINK WE HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL FOR THE SAME REASONS THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT TAKING EXTREME CARE WITH A NO FLY ZONE. ONE OF THE REASONS VLADIMIR PUTIN IS ENGAGING IN THIS APPALLING BEHAVIOR IN UKRAINE IS BECAUSE HE'S WORRIED ABOUT HIS OWN POSITION. HE HAS TO BE REELECTED, IN THEORY, AND ALSO IN PRACTICE IN 2024. WE'RE RUNNING UP TO HIS OWN PRESIDENTIAL TIME CLOCK HERE. IF HE FAILS AND LOOKS WEAK, IT'S DISASTROUS AT HOME, NOT JUST ABROAD. AND ANY TALK ABOUT TAKING OUT REGIME CHANGE, HE LOOKS AT WHAT THE UNITED STATES HAS DONE AND HE SAYS IT OPENLY ALL THE TIME IN LIBYA, IN IRAQ, IN AFGHANISTAN, AND MANY OTHER PLACES WHERE WE'VE INTERVENED, AND HE LOOKS AT US AND HE THINKS, I'M NOT GOING TO LET THAT HAPPEN HERE IN RUSSIA. HE'S EXTREMELY PARANOID ABOUT THIS, AND ONE OF THE REASONS HE WANTS TO DESTROY UKRAINE IS BECAUSE HE THINKS THAT WE WOULD USE IT, BECAUSE HE WOULD THINK ABOUT USING IT AS A LAUNCHING PAD FOR SOMETHING LIKE THIS. WE HAVE TO BE EXTRAORDINARILY CAUTIOUS ABOUT HOW WE TALK ABOUT THIS CONFLICT. WE NEED TO STOP THE WAR IN UKRAINE, BUT WE HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT TALKING ABOUT WAR WITH RUSSIA, REGIME CHANGE AND OTHER THINGS, BECAUSE HE WILL ABSOLUTELY DOUBLE DOWN FURTHER. >> JIM, HOW DOES THIS END WITH HIM IN POWER? >> I THINK IT'S INCREASINGLY HARD TO SEE THAT JUST BECAUSE THE BEHAVIOR WE'RE SEEING ARE WAR CRIMES. LET'S CALL IT WHAT IT IS. WHEN YOU FIRE ARTILLERY INTO RESIDENTIAL AREAS, WHEN YOU BOMB CIVILIANS, WHEN YOU ATTACK A NUCLEAR POWER PLANT, YOU ARE COMMITTING WAR CRIMES. INCREASINGLY, THAT IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT AS THIS ENDS. HOW DOES IT END? LET'S LOOK BACK AT THE BALKANS. I THINK IF WE LOOK BACK IN HISTORY, WE HAD SIMILAR KIND OF SITUATIONS, DIFFERENCES, BUT SIMILAR IN THE 1990s -- >> WE WERE NEVER GOING TO GO IN, THOUGH, AND EVENTUALLY WE WENT IN. I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THAT A LOT. WE SAID WE WEREN'T GOING TO GO IN. I REMEMBER ALL THOSE PLEDGES AND WE COULDN'T STAND WATCHING THIS HUMANITARIAN CRISIS AND WE INTERVENED. >> CHUCK, THIS IS PRECISELY WHAT'S UNFOLDING, AND MAYBE THE BIGGEST WEAPON WE HAVE IS PROOF, IS SHOWING THE RUSSIANS WHAT THEIR LEADER IS CREATING IN THEIR NAME. >> WILL THE RUSSIANS SEE THE TRUTH? >> WHAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DO IS TRY TO KEEP ON PUSHING THIS AT EVERY POSSIBLE JUNCTURE THAT WE CAN. THERE ARE A LOT OF RUSSIAN OLIGARCHS OUT THERE WHOSE ASSETS ARE BEING SEIZED AND CAN BE USED IN PART TO SUPPORT THE UKRANIANS, FOR EXAMPLE, BUT WE HAVE TO WORK ON THE BROADER PUBLIC OPINION IN CHINESE, THE INDIANS AND OTHERS WHO HAVE BASICALLY BEEN SITTING ON THE FENCE TRY TO PUSH THIS, TOO, BECAUSE THIS IS AN ATROCITY THAT THE WHOLE WORLD CAN'T STAND BY AND WATCH. THAT'S WHAT WE NEED TO FOCUS ON RIGHT NOW TO SEE IF WE CAN GET THIS TO STOP. JIM STAVRIDIS AND FIONA HILL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> THANK YOU. >>> WATCH >>> WELCOME BACK. DATA DOWNLOAD TIME. FRIDAY'S FEDERAL JOB NUMBERS PROVIDED SOME MUCH-NEEDED NEWS ON THE ECONOMIC FRONT FOR THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION. THE COUNTRY CRUSHED EXPECTATIONS BY ADDING 678,000 JOBS IN FEBRUARY. BUT HOW REAL IS THIS FEBRUARY FIGURE? WELL, WE MAY HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE WHAT THE REVISED NUMBERS LOOK LIKE NEXT MONTH, BECAUSE GUESS WHAT, IN 2021 WE SAW A LOT OF MONTHLY NUMBERS REVISED DRAMATICALLY. LAST YEAR WE HAD THREE MONTHS WHERE YOU HAD MASSIVE DOWNGRADE REVISIONS. MARCH, 200,000, IN JUNE, NEARLY 300,000, IN JULY, 250,000. LOOK AT THOSE. AND WE ALSO HAD MASSIVE UPGRADES. IN JANUARY 2021, ALMOST HALF A MILLION UPGRADES. IN NOVEMBER, ANOTHER HALF A MILLION UPGRADES. IN TOTAL, IN 2021, IF YOU TOOK ALL THE REVISIONS IN ONE THING, THEY WERE SHORT ESSENTIALLY 1.4 MILLION TOTAL JOBS. A LOT OF THIS IS PANDEMIC DRIVEN, BUT A LOT OF THIS IS A REMINDER THAT THIS MONTHLY JOBS REPORT IS A POLL, FOLKS. IT, TOO, HAS A MARGIN OF ERROR. >>> WELCOME BACK. PANELISTS WITH US, SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, LEGAL JACKSON, STEPHEN HAYES, CONTRIBUTING WRITER AND COLUMNIST FOR THE NEW YORKER. I'LL QUICKLY SHOW SOME BIDEN POLL NUMBERS HERE, BUT I ACTUALLY WANT TO FOCUS A LITTLE BIT MORE ON THE WAR, BUT WE'RE SEEING HERE, HALLIE, ONE POLL AFTER THE INVASION, THIS APPEARS TO BE THE FIRST OF WHAT COULD BE THE RALLY AROUND THE FLAG, POST UKRAINE, HIS APPROVAL RIGHT NOW OF HANDLING UKRAINE ABOVE WATER. WE MAY BE IN THE MIDDLE OF A SHIFT IN POLITICS BASED ON UKRAINE. >> I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT. IT'S ONE DATA POINT. WE NEED MORE BEFORE WE START TO EXTRAPOLATE FROM IT. THE WHITE HOUSE IS NOT HAPPY TO SEE THESE NUMBERS, ALTHOUGH IT'S NOT THEIR PRIMARY FOCUS. WHAT STRUCK ME, WHAT HAPPENED IN UKRAINE, IS PENETRATING TO PEOPLE WHO MIGHT NOT CARE ABOUT POLITICAL ISSUES. THE IMAGES ARE VISCERAL, IT'S IN THE FRONT OF EVERY SINGLE NEWSPAPER, EVEN LOCAL PAPERS AND NATIONAL NEWSCASTS EVERY SINGLE MORNING AND EVERY SINGLE NIGHT. THIS IS MORE POLITICAL THAN THE THINGS FOLKS TEND TO GET A LITTLE LOST IN. WE'LL SEE HOW THE OTHER ONES COME OUT. >> ROBIN, I WAS INTRIGUED BY THE CONVERSATION I HAD WITH STAVRIDIS ABOUT THE BALKANS. I REMEMBER IN 1984 AND 1985, WE WEREN'T GOING TO GO IN, AND THE PICTURES CHANGED PUBLIC OPINION. TO HALLIE'S POINT, THE WORLD MAY PUSH US TO DO A NO FLY ZONE. >> FOR THE MOMENT THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. THERE ARE TOO MANY CALCULATIONS. RUSSIA'S WAR HAS NEVER BEEN JUST ABOUT UKRAINE. IT WAS ALWAYS ABOUT THE COMPETITION WITH THE WEST. THE ONE BIG QUESTION, OF COURSE, IS WHERE DOES PUTIN STOP, AND DOES HE PUSH, WHETHER COVERTLY OR OVERTLY, BEYOND UKRAINE? THAT'S WHERE YOU MIGHT SEE THE UNITED STATES TAKING A STRONGER POSITION, SETTING UP DEFENSE MECHANISMS, CHALLENGING ANY KIND OF PUTIN AGGRESSION. FOR NOW THEY'RE NOT GOING TO DO THAT. THE REAL QUESTION IS CAN YOU CHANGE THE BALANCE OF POWER IN THE AIR? IF YOU CAN DO THAT, SUDDENLY YOU CHANGE THE DYNAMICS ACROSS THE BOARD, WHETHER IT'S GIVING UKRAINIANS FIGHTERS SO IT CAN TAKE ON THOSE CONVOYS WE SEE OUTSIDE OF KYIV, OR WHETHER IT'S PROVIDING STINGERS AND JAVELINS. THAT'S REALLY THE CRITICAL NEXT STEP. >> I THINK THE QUESTION IS, IS THE ADMINISTRATION DOING EVERYTHING IT CAN DO. THIS GOES BACK TO THE POLITICAL QUESTION. EVERYBODY WILL BE FAVORABLE TO PRESIDENT BIDEN IF WE SEE THIS PLAY OUT ON OUR SCREENS, ON OUR PHONES, BUT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS REALLY DOING EVERYTHING IT CAN. I THINK THERE IS A GROWING SENSE THAT THEY'RE NOT. IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT PRESIDENT BIDEN SAID ON FEBRUARY 24th WHEN HE ANNOUNCED THIS TO THE WORLD, WE ARE GOING TO DO SOMETHING, WE ARE GOING TO BE TOUGH. HE SAID RUSSIA WILL BE AN INTERNATIONAL PARIAH, A PARIAH ON THE INTERNATIONAL STAGE. WE'RE DEALING WITH RUSSIA ON IT RAN DEAL, WE'RE DEALING WITH RUSSIA ON CLIMATE. THE UNITED STATES HAS GIVEN GUIDANCE ON CONTINUING TO DEAL WITH RUSSIA. THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED AFTER 2014. WE SAID RUSSIA WILL BE ISOLATED. RUSSIA WASN'T ISOLATED. WE NEED TO DO MORE. >> IT'S INTERESTING, IS THIS PUTIN'S WAR OR RUSSIA'S WAR? I THINK THERE ARE SOME THAT ARE TRYING TO CREATE, HEY, LET'S NOT PUNISH THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN DO THAT. >> IT'S GOING TO BE DIFFICULT. WAR IS WAR. WE NEED TO BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT IT, AND WHENEVER WAR HAPPENS, EVERYDAY PEOPLE WHO HAPPEN TO LIVE THERE WILL BE IMPACTED. IT'S IMPORTANT TO THINK ABOUT PRESIDENT BIDEN IS ALSO DEALING WITH THE COALITION FOLKS THAT ARE IMPACTING THE KINDS OF DECISIONS HE MAKES. AND WE WERE LAUDING HIM, CELEBRATING HIM FOR ACTUALLY BUILDING THAT COALITION TO DO WHAT WE'VE DONE SO FAR. AND THERE ARE ALSO CONSTRAINTS. IT'S ONE THING TO GO IT ALONE, BUT IT'S ANOTHER THING TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS A WAR THAT IMPACTS HOW THE WEST CONCEDES THEMSELVES. >> I THINK IT WAS CLEVER AT THE VERY BEGINNING FOR THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION TO GO PUBLIC AS QUICKLY AS THEY DID WITH THE INTELLIGENCE GATHERING. IT WAS A SMART THING, I THINK IT WAS DEFECTIVE. NOT BECAUSE IT WAS A DETERRENT, BUT IT MADE CLEAR THAT VLADIMIR PUTIN WAS LYING ABOUT WHAT HE WAS ABOUT TO DO, BUT IT CREATED THIS GAP ON WHAT THE PRESIDENT WAS SAYING, WHAT THE ADMINISTRATION WAS SAYING, ABOUT WHAT THIS WOULD MEAN, RESHAPING HOW THE WORLD OPERATES, AND WE DIDN'T INITIALLY SANCTION PUTIN. WE RELIED ON S.W.I.F.T. WE DIDN'T SEND THE ARMS BEFORE THE WAR THAT WE'RE NOW RUSHING INTO THE THEATER. >> I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT -- I WAS STILL STRUCK BY SECRETARY BLINKEN. HE CLEARLY WANTED TO COME OUT AND MAKE SOME NEWS ON THE BANNING OF RUSSIAN OIL IMPORTS. THEY DIDN'T DO IT, BUT IT'S BEEN A SHIFT FROM THE WHITE HOUSE. >> IF CONGRESS IS GOING TO PASS THIS, HE'S NOT GOING TO VETO IT. THEY HAVE TO COME OUT IN FAVOR OF IT. >> BUT THE QUESTION IS, ARE WE JUST GOING TO BAN WHAT THE UNITED STATES TRADES, OR ARE WE GOING TO SANCTION OTHERS WHO DO OIL DEALS WITH THE RUSSIANS? IF WE DON'T TAKE THE SECOND LAYER, THE FIRST LAYER IS MEANINGLESS AND SYMBOLIC. REMEMBER, LAST YEAR PUTIN MADE ALMOST $120 BILLION OFF ENERGY WHEN THE PRICE OF OIL IS UNDER $70. NOW IT'S 115, IT COULD GO TO 150. EVEN AS WE SANCTION HIM ON OIL, THE REST OF THE WORLD IS STILL BUYING. >> BUT TO YOUR POINT EARLIER, THE QUESTION ABOUT WHERE DOES HE STOP, WE CAN AFFECT WHERE HE STOPS. IF WE DO THIS FIRST, WE'RE BASICALLY NOT GOING TO BINGE BANKS, WE'RE GOING TO STAY THESE STEPS UNTIL THE END OF JUNE. IF WE DO THIS NOW, WE CAN LEAD. WE SHOULDN'T BE WAITING TO FOLLOW. >> SHOULD WE TAKE SOME SOLACE THAT PUTIN IS CALLING THIS A DECLARATION OF WAR? MEANING, OH, THIS REALLY HIT THEM THIS TIME. IT'S CLEAR ALL THE OTHER SANCTIONS WEREN'T EFFECTIVE. THESE ARE EFFECTIVE. >> AND HE'S CONCERNED ENOUGH TO SAY THAT IF A NO FLY ZONE WERE TO HAPPEN IT WOULD BE IN DIRECT CONFRONTATION. HE'S LISTENING TO WHAT'S HAPPENING NATIONALLY, RIGHT? YOU CAN RAISE THE QUESTION OF PRESSURE ON HIM AT HOME INSIDE RUSSIA GIVEN WHAT YOU STARTED YOUR SHOW WITH TODAY, CHUCK, AND THE CRACKDOWN ON REPORTING INSIDE RUSSIA. >> BUT THERE IS SOMETHING GOING ON IN THE RUSSIAN ARMY, AND AT SOME POINT WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT, ROBIN, CAN WE HARNESS THIS? CAN WE HARNESS THIS CLEAR -- THERE'S SOMETHING. >> CHUCK, HOW MANY MOVIES HAVE YOU SEEN ABOUT THE PLOTS AGAINST ADOLF HITLER IN WORLD WAR II AND NONE OF THEM WORKED? >> I WASN'T GOING THERE. >> SO, SURE, THERE'S LIKELY TO BE SOME DISCONTENT. THESE ARE A LOT OF CONSCRIPTS, THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING, THEY'RE LOST. I DON'T THINK ANY TIME SOON WE'RE LIKELY TO SEE ANY KIND OF CHALLENGE, WHETHER IT'S BY THE PEOPLE OR BY THE MILITARY THAT CHANGES PUTIN. >> EDDIE, I JOKED ABOUT BRINGING UP THE STATE OF THE UNION, IT'S LIKE NOBODY ELSE IS TALKING ABOUT IT. BUT IF THERE'S ONE THING THAT SURPRISED ME ABOUT THE PRESIDENT'S STATE OF THE UNION IS THE LACK OF CONNECTING THE FIGHT FOR DEMOCRACY AND THE FREEDOM ABROAD, BUT WHAT ABOUT TODAY'S FIGHT FOR DEMOCRACY AT HOME? MARCHING ACROSS THE BRIDGE A SECOND TIME WITHOUT JOHN LEWIS IS UPSETTING. >> LET'S SECURE DEMOCRACY AT HOME. >> AND POLITICAL. IT'S AN EASY POLITICAL MOVE. >> WHAT WOULD IT MEAN TO SECURE DEMOCRACY AT HOME? WE HAVE TO ADDRESS WHAT'S HAPPENING ACROSS THE COUNTRY IN TERMS OF VOTING RIGHTS. AND WE ALSO HAVE TO LOOK AT THE FORCES WITHIN OUR COUNTRY THAT ARE DRIVING THE CHALLENGE TO VOTER RIGHTS. I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT AND I THOUGHT IT WAS A MISTAKE. >> AND IF WE'RE GOING TO GET IN MORE, WE HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHY THIS FIGHT MATTERS. >>> A PRIME TIME SPECIAL TONIGHT ON NBC AT 9:00 CENTRAL. >>> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. WE'LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK. IF IT'S SUNDAY, IT'S "MEET THE PRESS."
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