Branding & Identity Design with Hoodzpah Design - 1 of 2

[Music] [Music] hey everyone i'm jen hood this is amy hood we are gonna be both your guest and your host for adobe live today we're so excited to be here we're monopolizing all your time um and by the way if you're over on youtube join us over on behance because that's where i can i can actually like see your chat and we can interact and have a good time so do that but welcome to adobe live this is where we design live together which sounds scary but really it's only stressful for amy who is our guest today we're a bit terrifying terrifying but we're hoodsby design we run a studio together here in southern california and today we're going to be doing some brand identity which includes logo design packaging we're going to be doing a fake beer company so it's going to be a good time um but hey to the chat let us know where you're from let us know if there's any friends in the house we love all of your moral support so that we know we're not alone in this we need the emotional support please um give us thumbs up friendly emojis all the love yeah let's take a look at the schedule though too because there's a bunch of amazing stuff coming up after we're done so we've got brandon identity design right now with us hudsp design and then after us at 2 p.m pacific time you've got the xd daily creative challenge with andrea eppie and then 2 30 p.m uh pacific time you've got draw along with kyle t webster of brush fame he does incredible brushes that i've used a million times at 3 p.m pacific time we've got creative encore design off with voodoo val and jet packs and roller skates so stay tuned for those things but um hey in the chat hey everybody johnny nittles in the house hey scott newsom hey zeb hey tracy miller oh my gosh so many friends thank you for being here voodoo val what's up stuart dooley our our favorite south african yes oh my gosh i'm so glad you're all here andrew hawk rattle uh hey famous in the house who just killed it at the creative challenge by the way hey abed uh so glad you're here hey from atlanta ricky uh yes we're not alone we're here and that's the great thing about adobe live i love the community aspect so again if you're over on youtube join us on behance because that's where we can actually chat and stuff that's where the chat goes off goes off and ps chat i need to know what you're watching on netflix i need to know what you're watching on hulu i need to know what you're watching amazon prime because i'm running out of shows but we just finished ted lasso on apple plus it was so good so good so heartwarming so funny yes yeah but anyways um amy tell us all about hutzbah who we are for those of um the chat and uh watchers who haven't met us before um and what we're gonna be doing today yeah okay so yeah we are hoods for design uh we are a type design and brand identity design studio based out of southern california we make fonts like this beverly drive lone pine you might have seen our font palm canyon drive i don't know everywhere it's awesome how it's kind of taken over i really wanted to be pain at all it's amazing it's taken on a life of its own um but we also do a ton of brand id work that's what we're doing today and that is definitely one of our passions logo design um building that out into a system and packaging and all these kinds of things so we've worked with amazing companies people like disney and then people that you may never have heard of um but i bet you've heard of the lakers and that was a dream project that was the ultimate dream right there totally but yeah we get to do so many fun things and we always bring custom type into the mix and we're going to be doing a little bit of that today so i'm pretty excited to yeah do our fake beer company for a green room so that's what we're working on it's called green room it's a brewery from socal which we made up it does not exist but we're going to be doing a brand package for it today so am take us through the process that you would go with a client from start to finish on on how we would do that kind of a logo package in real life well we would definitely start by setting the rules of engagement you want to make sure that um you're not just sending proofs to a client and saying do you like this that is opening a can of worms that you do not want to open you want to make that sure that there are parameters that you can measure your design decisions against so that you're helping that your client make the best design decision so usually we always start out with a discovery phase and we'll usually call um or meet with a pre-covered meet with a client and we would just make sure like hey what are you about what do you want to be about what is this rebrand for and what are our goals and then we take everything that they they tell us and we just listen we listen we make take copious notes we uh what is what's the word you love that tech people love synthesize we synthesize it all together exactly let the magic happen let it marinate and then we spit out this discovery deck that basically just recaps our goals and so whenever the client starts to get off the rails you can say let's go back to the discovery that we all agreed on let's make sure this meets the goals oh it doesn't meet the goals like let's let's make sure we're on track so i'll zoom out a little bit so you can see our audience over here but our goal is to create a brand identity and packaging system for green room beer that is approachable stands off the shelf and leaves room for growth for international sales because this is a west coast brewery um they want to of course get a foothold in the west coast first and then grow into international markets so our audience is drinking age people probably 21 or 18 depending on where you're at to 35 so we want kind of like the taste makers the cool people who decide like this is awesome and then the 40 year olds will follow the 40 and 50 year olds will say oh what is this yeah i'm still hip i know also the 40 and 50 year olds are just always going to drink course and that's okay that's where i am of course uh also i'll buy anything that sam elliott is a spokesperson for let's just be real that mustache could sell me ice ice a time share in a time share yeah um so our audience drinking age people of course um west coast drinkers first so we want to make sure our branding feels like west coast but we also want it to appeal to mass market so um we want to keep that in mind and we want it to be appealing to tastemakers who like quality at a good price i really want it to feel approachable light course where it's like you know it's been around for a while you know it's trusted you know what tastes good um but you also um you know that it's not going to like break the bank right think people who eat in and out or people who are vans it's a great price point people like steven overturf who says i am cool person and he is right steven is a cool person okay so our brand traits i always like to say what the brand traits are for our company we usually agree on this with a client what we are is accessible nostalgic with a twist in bolds but what we're not even more important is we're not expensive we're not busy i've noticed a lot of beer cans are very busy very there's a lot going on so i want it to be like that coca-cola stark red can i want to do something like that and i don't want it to be expected so these are all of our rules for what this logo has to be and by the way these are all things that we've worked out with the client because we want them to approve this and get that first yes in our process so that they're already feeling excited and we don't start off with a very important design decision without them having bought in to like our goals first right you're getting a yes from them on something that's not design related so that there's like a trust and we feel like oh yeah we're doing this together we're all a part of you know um the same the same army yeah so our core use is going to be on you know the cam label the six pack packaging um and then of course like delivery trucks coasters that we're gonna give to like breweries so that there's like that little you know branding moment um tasting room signage all these fun little touch points which we'll be working on tomorrow and jen will actually be designing those and i'll be hosting you so fun i can just kick back and relax finally and here's our competitive landscape this is a really fun page that i like to present because when whenever we present our final like logos i'll usually just roughly mock it up on a can and then throw it in the mix of our competition and it's amazing how you can immediately see like oh this stands out and it sells it so much more than just pasting the logo on a page so contextualizing your work is everything it is so so huge in in just getting something approved and getting client buy-in so i've shown this competitive landscape and you can see almost all the cans are on that silver can base and maybe that's like like a cost-saving thing but we can still like keep the colors limited for cost purposes but stand out so i want to do number one brand color swash big full almost like a coca-cola can coca-cola red that's what i wanted something like that kind of like what coors is doing i think they'd stay with something more vivid yes yeah and i think another thing that we could do that's cool because everyone else is doing just regular horizontal text let's flip the text vertically so that it's super bold and it stands out especially because our name is long green room beer yeah so and then i want our logo icon to be more prominent i've noticed that not all of these beer labels focus on their icon very much so maybe that's something we can try that's a way to like stand out totally coors does it stone does it but the other ones mostly focus on the word mark yeah so let's try that and here's kind of our mood board to give you an idea of what we want it's funky it's super funky super fresh um fun bold colors but they they're a little bit dissaturated i love that um i also just love this really bright yellow i'm down to do that but also of course has kind of the golden thing going they don't own gold though they own red more than they own gold i think cool coors banquet beer oh but then for the the blue mountains oh so blue takes to the rockies we can own yellow all right well we'll see how it goes but um we might even try this orange down here on this cheers thing i don't know but i love all this big thick type it's really going to stand off on the can it's really going to be legible i like that and i like these bold icons we have in the bottom left so something along these lines is kind of what we're going for and of course we want to make an ownable word mark this is a page that we started including in our decks um to get people ready for the idea that it's gonna look a little odd like if you look at the casper logo there's something kind of off about that seed but that's why it's ownable like a great logo doesn't really feel comfortable at first and that's on purpose if it feels too comfortable it's probably because you've seen it too many times before and it's too normal you want something that's a little bit dissonant in the way that you can actually own it and it'll be recognizable so we're gonna we like to prepare our clients to to be looking for those things so they're not like oh it's kind of feels off it's like well good yeah it's gonna be memorable exactly and some people are asking in the chat henry and and uh scott newsom uh this is a fictional brand we're making it up so that we have full creative control which is going to be fun we usually do real brands but we were like let's make up our own brand this time let's get full full creative control so this isn't a real brand but um they are uh fictionally based in california and so we are looking to do that west coast buys because let's face it all of the world wants to be in california this is what i think yeah we're obviously living in our own bubble and we apologize but california is like it's a beautiful place everybody wants to be here so we're going to sell that california vacation lifestyle all right so that's our that's our kind of our goal outline and our discovery that we've presented to the client they've approved it our fictional client has said yes we're on board so now let's hop into adobe illustrator and we do we always do our logos in adobe illustrator and actually i also sometimes use like a type design software on the side called glyphs app but i love adobe illustrator for logo design because it keeps it vector keeps it scalable and you have so much more control over everything and so we do a lot of custom type work in adobe illustrator um for our logos totally i i love illustrator even when i make my fonts i start in illustrator because i'm comfortable with it then i bring it into glyphs so illustrators is my boo so yeah so to start i always sketch first so here's a look at my sketch that i did before you all got here i worked on this a little bit and i just got out some ideas and like i said i wanted to do something that was bold um really thick lines maybe we can play with some thicks and thins and i want to do some fun swash action i think that's how we're going to make this um word mark ownable and unique so for some of this we could probably typeset from some adobe typekit fonts and then customize um and then for some of it maybe we'll just create it from scratch but when she says typekit she means adobe fonts which was formerly known as typekit but if you go to fonts.adobe.com there's so many incredible fonts that the license is included in your creative cloud subscription and you can turn those on and activate those to use them and you'll just want to double check that those fonts are allowed to be used for logos i think most of them are but it'll be in the licensing instructions um on the tab in adobe fonts but you're right we could probably um use some fonts for like the base and then customize them or we could make them from scratch but how would you so you're gonna make this one from scratch the lettering yeah i think i'm gonna start by i pulled in my sketch like i showed you all and i usually will just pull that in and then put it on a layer put it on its own layer name it sketches lock it then i don't have to worry about it lock it and forget it and then i make after that i make a new layer for guides you can see that over here in the right hand side and i usually make those in a really annoying color like pink so it really stands out when i'm using my black outline so i'll kind of make my i've got my baseline here you can see i've got my cap height here and then i've got my x height here so i kind of know where everything's going and i lock that and now i have this layer on the top of all that and that's where i'm going to start building out my letter forms so i'm just kind of working on this one down here that i really like and i'm just going to start making points and i can kind of adjust it as i go but i'm going to do it kind of quick and willy-nilly because i can adjust it after the fact i just want to get my basic points down right now and if there's anything that we've learned over the years from doing brand design i think at first when you start with that blank page you don't have to even think or worry about it being pretty don't think you're gonna make anything pretty the first day you start working on a logo or a visual identity because it's not gonna be pretty but you just have to get the rough idea out and then you can wake up the next day with fresh perspective and keep cleaning it honing it um stuart julie who's in the chat will know like the first few days you hate everything you make for a logo project but then after that you're starting to refine things and narrow into something you like so you can see she's working really rapid iteration if you've ever seen aaron draflin work he does the same thing he just works quick he makes another concept works quick and that's because at first you just want to get all your ideas out on paper and not be too precious about it being perfect yet and i'm just setting up some like rough guides every now and again so that i can know where i'm going and keep my um angles consistent yeah so that's what i'm doing right now and i see you're working on different layers so that you can lock the guides and then do your artwork on a different layer which is super handy and then luckily i have my snap to snap to something turned on not snap to pixel because i hate that snap to point maybe it's oh it's just smart guys and so it tells me like oh you're on the anchor your anchor's on the point you're good yeah so i really like that and when i'm using type and people ask me like how do you do lettering it's so hard and it's so hard don't get me wrong but it's just shapes it's just like when you're painting and people say they look at it and they think that's a face that's scary don't think of it as a face think of it as shapes blur your eyes and just you know think of it as as blob components yeah and it makes it so much easier so a lot of times i'll start with shapes and then go from there start shearing and cropping stuff out i have a circle i've sheared it now i'm going to get a rectangle to create my little counter cut here and uh i'm gonna copy this command c command f to paste in place and just kind of adjust that in here and i'm just starting to like build things out i'm actually going to and this is where pathfinder becomes hugely helpful because it can help you um minus subtract and add shapes together totally so have that pathfinder tool ready to roll but it is it's just shapes and when you think about it like that it becomes a little less daunting i think yeah um well the cool thing about doing your own type or at least customizing type for a client um is that it becomes more ownable to them it's you're not just typesetting a font that you know anybody could have you're making something unique to it that allows it to be specific to that client's brand which is very important for logos and identity work that it is iconic to them uniquely in some way and that's what we're going for here and so if you are able to do custom type and to hone those skills it makes it even more ownable because you've made it just for them which is incredible and another thing i like to do like i've kind of set my widths here so that makes it handy i'm going to go ahead and just draw a rectangle that's going to be my stem for my r here but i want to make sure that i'm consistent with my thicknesses of my stems so i'm going to shear this and i'm going to match it to the angle that we've got here on this pink here but then i'm going to kind of like bring it over here to my thick that i have on my e which i like and i'm just going to match it closely it'll actually be thinner than the round on my e because those rounded letters like e and o those are always a little bit wider and a little bit taller you'll see the e on the verticals it extends past our guide a little that's called overshoot because optically your eye needs that a little bit extra on that rounded point to make it look like it's the same height as the r's or or not even ours more like flat letters lowercase letters yeah exactly so it's an optical illusion so i think that's another thing like when i was early on getting into making custom typography and stuff i was so worried about everything being perfectly even and it's that's so not it and you the more you learn it's like of course you want to start out with things being even and aligned and as similar as possible because you want consistency yeah you want to make sure it looks consistent and not like an accident but after that you start to realize like okay now what does it look what looks visually right right like there's there's perfectly right and then there's what looks good visually so i think a lot of um learning about typography and lettering is learning when to break the rules when when to adjust things for that visual correctness and a great resource for that is house industries their manual for lettering i think it's lettering manual or manual for lettering look it up it is invaluable if you're getting started with letting i want to know the basics of type design and lettering so good so claudia solis wants to know oh sorry not claudia solis which hey claudia sorry to throw you into the western chloe rubenstein wants to know are you ladies using a tablet or just the laptop trackpad right now right now i'm using the laptop trackpad which is crazy like a maniac but i really have gotten used to it maybe it's because i used to go work at coffee shops all the time just to like get out and see people because we work from home yeah and so i kinda i would always forget my mouse in just every single time so i think it's just a lot of it is part of just getting used to it but yeah and you can see so you're like duplicating shapes to keep those consistent forms yeah so i have this r already so i just you know i'm option dragging the stem from the r because that'll be my stem for my end there's a lot of repetition in type so there is a lot of consistency in a lot of ways so if i just like cut this path i'm gonna get rid of that and just oh ricky hagrid he got that book for christmas yes it is insanely valuable i keep it on my desk right next to me because we've been working on a lot of font design lately um to get some more passive income going and it's my constant reference for like quick little notes of okay because even little things like on an h you would think the crossbar and the two vertical stems would be the same weight if it's a sans serif and it's supposed to look like the same weight but actually horizontal um crossbars are actually a little bit thinner than vertical ones because of the optical way we see things uh but little things like that yeah and another great reason joshua young's it's called lettering manual i think and it's by house industries if you look up kelly barber thanks natasha for yeah i can't remember in the chat it's like yeah ken barber they're incredible and if you also like that kind of thing you should look up ono typeco on instagram he has all of these amazing like lettering tips and tricks that he learned because he went like paid for like the legit school in like paris so he's given us all the cheats which is really cool yeah so you can see how this is all kind of working out so and i like to like i've got my sketch here i've pulled it like right off to the side of my artboard so once i get kind of far i'll usually option drag and pull it off onto the white to kind of see where i'm at and see how it looks you know without all the noise so i can see that that is too far over so i'm just going to kind of adjust that a little bit maybe just direct select that anchor point and just kind of shuffle things around but i'm really liking where this is going um and someone asked about um using a tablet for design i actually just got an ipad and i was thinking about what i would use now that i've actually gotten used to the apps on the ipad i don't think i would ever do this kind of like vector logo design on my ipad at least not now i prefer having my computer because the app is completely different for the the tablet than it is on your laptop or your computer and so on my laptop on my computer all my my key commands and my shortcuts and all that like i just have way more control and i'm able to work a lot faster on the laptop desktop app in illustrator than on the ipad and however on the ipad i love using you know the adobe fresco and stuff for illustration and that kind of thing and for digital painting so that's kind of how i break those two up so you can see how we're like adjusting things right as we go and um if i pull over this original one that we had you can see how much awkward negative space was in this underneath this r so i just kind of shortened that stem of that r out a bit that arm and i'm just kind of like adjusting as i go i think this top thing this top swash is also a bit thick so i might just select these two direct points and just kind of adjust those a bit as well and it's kind of starting to look pretty freaking cool actually i really like it so you'll see she's pulling these little handles on the anchor points those are uh handles that control what's called the bezier curve and if you can learn about bezier curves you can really get to know a lot more about what makes up a shape and how those bezier curves match each other when they're at the top and the bottom of the letter in the form if you kind of understand how those work it can really help you with your lettering absolutely okay so that's looking good and then okay i've always loved that pirelli like long piece yeah i love it so much pirelli is actually such a long word so it's almost like too long but i'm like this r could be but again that like weird but ownable but odd like it has to be kind of weird for totally that iconic totally so i think what i'm gonna do is and you know your cap fix are always a little bit thicker um so i think i'm gonna pull this down and then i'm just gonna use my you know i've got my cap height in my base height here so i'm going to use that to kind of start my r and on my sketch i did it a little too close so i'm going to adjust that as i go too but i'm just going to use my pen tool and i'm going to go all the way out create this i could even probably have done this with like the rounded rectangle tool but um let's just kind of start ryan mcquaid says i love those vector brushes in adobe fresco adobe fresco has such incredible brushes and the watercolor ones that blend like real watercolor i mean it's incredible it's a game changer if you're doing illustration um which because we do brand identity work sometimes that does bleed into illustration if that's right for a client so that's how i justified getting an ipad because it's hard when you have a laptop a desktop and then you also want to buy one more piece of equipment that you have to keep updated uh you gotta justify that stuff for yourself am i gonna make money off this okay so that's looking good and then again we're just taking and copying things that we already have so i already have my o's so actually this needs to go up higher i'm realizing we need to make sure there's enough space so i'm going to direct select these and just extend that up okay that's good and i'll just go ahead and do that okay so now we've got our o's i think what i'm gonna do is sometimes what i'll do is like i'll go to my pathfinder tool if i've skewed this and i'll just go unite just to get my anchors back to the top to the north four corners interesting because on this one you can see it's all yeah the little anchor points yeah like it's all right almost at 45. yeah so it's really hard when you want to like scale in to do it in a way where you can then go like yeah here i can stretch this now how interesting i didn't know that so yeah i'm learning things from my own sister by the way we're hoods for design right now we're designing a logo and as part of an identity package for a fake beer company that we made up called green room um hey gus martin how are you guys martin's in the chat oh gosh disgusting vaseline also if you're over on the youtube side jump over to the behind side there should be a link somewhere because that's where we can see you in chat and say hey and become best friends and hopefully meet up in real life one time so what i'm going to do hector del val says genius little tip yeah i did not know that yeah amy's crazy thank you jen okay so i think claudia solis would like to know about how you ended up at the sketches brainstorming um like how did you get to these concepts what was your your thinking and in fact you have to explain what green room is okay so green room green room is a word um it's kind of like a nickname for a wave um if you're getting barrelled getting pitted bro um and i just have always been like that so when you're serving in the the wave is curling over you you are in the green room it's also a word for obviously like people who go to shows or if you're in a band or something it's the word for the room that the band hangs out in before the show so i think there's just all these really fun connotations um and uses that feel very west coast to me so i was like i love that idea um i think that would be a really cool name for a beer where it's like if you get it you get it but it's also just like it rolls off the tongue green room yeah hey grab me a green room it's almost relaxing in an odd way yeah it works yeah and actually i'm realizing my overshoots are a little too overshooty but we can fix that later okay we'll just keep going but guess what i'm gonna do to make this m gen i'm gonna copy it from the end what yeah no it's gonna be called this is called using what you've got and cheating and it's totally allowed hacking the system hacking the mainframe this is what we're doing making it harder for yourself so on this i'm just option dragging this this um stem that i had for the n and guess what i got me an m yeah and it was that easy so now i'm gonna just can you hear us cool all right cool okay all right we're ready and we are back okay sorry about that yes sorry a little bit of technical difficulty would it be um quarantined adobe live if there wasn't technical difficulties um but yeah um someone asked is overshoot a real term and it is it actually is i don't know if over shootie is it's a bit over shooty but um yeah no that's probably not but um hey we're back um someone's gonna if anyone knows what the actual name for that little stem on the g is maybe it's just stem maybe that's it yeah so what i'm going to do to make the counter for my big long r is i'm going to just go um i'm going to go cut or i'm just going to go object path offset offset path i love using offset path if there's like if i want to make sure i get like an even um yeah size scale yeah on all sides yeah i i really like it because if you if you've ever done it like made a circle and then made a copy and pasted that circle and scaled it down lower or bigger to make an exact like um extension if that makes sense it doesn't do it exactly you have to use the path offset to get it exact on all sides yeah i'm not sure why that is that it when you scale it it just doesn't work but and then i like to you know kind of like adjust it myself from there so i'm gonna like and it's this is like this may not work this idea but i really want it to and i'm gonna i need to first it is i'm hoping we'll see if we can do it but this definitely needs to be bigger so i think what i'm going to do is i'm just going to first start by doing that then i'll option click on these outsides and just kind of adjust from there so we'll see if that works we'll kind of pair it with um some of the icons we have i'm really excited about some of the icons that we have yeah so and we'll see kind of what works but um right now i think i'm gonna just leave this one alone the best thing you can do to see if something is working is just leave it alone let it marinate and come back to it um that that's always like the best thing you can do so on this one are you going to work much more on it do you think or is it almost the point where you're like you know what let me just start working on another concept i think i'm going to do that so what i'm going to do is i'm just i know for sure that this is still not big enough so i'm just going to fix this one last thing and then i'm going to start on some of the icons that we have because i definitely want to make sure we have a logo icon that we can own i think that's one thing that could make us very different than some of the other places because it's like if you think about course you can't can you think do you actually know what their icon is it's not like mcdonald's where it's like you know so it's the mountains taste uh but that's on coors light on banquet they don't use that banquet it's a little red bow tie so it's like do i have a problem do i know way too much about beer without your writing oh my gosh so anyway so it would be cool if we could you know make something that is really our so anyway that's kind of where we're at on that i'm going to let it marinate i'm just going to kind of pull it up to the side over here we've got it got it going and i like to keep all my you can see that i've got all my shapes that i've used to cut this out i've got them all still in there because i want to be able to adjust those later and kind of play with it um once i have like clear eyes yeah their eyes full heart can't lose in that way as tim reagan says love that guy so we got that idea i like to present the client with two ideas i like to give them a couple of options so that um that they have a choice in the matter exactly and by the way when we present options to a client if we're presenting a logo and an identity proof we're not going to include the one we like and then a really terrible one hoping that they'll pick the one we like because that's never how it works they will pick the terrible one so only give them two options that really do fit the brief and solve the problem because in our opinion we've always been firm believers that there's way more ways than one to solve a design problem and that's why there's incredible designers out there um who could all you know there's enough work to go around because we all have different tools to solve solve the same problem green room concept you know i am so this concept right here that i'm working on it's going to be a monogram option which i always love a monogram option because it's um it might be the most obvious thing but um if you do it well it can be it can be really powerful and um you know i i just think it's a great idea think about mcdonald's it's an m you know but they've made it stylized enough to where um it feels unique and it's still compared with the word mark so i've got here you may not be able to tell but when sets are coming in in when you're like looking at it maybe from a hill atop a beach they come in and they look like this they've got these little wave arches so these are actually sets coming in to kind of play homage to the idea of like the surfing green room so i am definitely going to try to work that in in some way and it will be stylized i love it when it's stylized where it's like it's almost like a delightful um it's a delightful like little hidden thing yeah like when disney does a great job at this with their movie logos like if you think about finding nemo they've got that little hidden fish in the o yeah um as the counter there's so many great examples of it but i love that little moment that delights the viewer yeah so that's kind of what i'm going for i don't want it to be like hey this is a wave right like you know i don't have to like it's the worst one tv shows do that to you when they like make it it's like we get it we we were with you but thank you for spelling it out the script is way too obvious yes like when they just spell it out for you it's like trust your audience i think you do have to trust your audience a bit that they'll get it yeah and a lot of times why it's also important to present logo proofs i think at least round one that critical first look proof whether it's a logo or any kind of really creative work we always present that first proof in person or over a video call where we're walking the client through it and we're controlling the pace of the presentation and what we tell the client at the beginning is hey we're going to present this proof to you if you have any questions you can chime in or wait till the end but we'll just kind of tell you the story and walk you through it first that way we can control the narrative and explain to them why it's a good decision you kind of want to win them over almost like you're in a court of law like law order you know or like you gotta make a case for it i'm a madman exactly and i'm i'm like all about i'm obsessed with consistency like our friend josh ariza and us we send each other back proofs to each other it's like we're you know working on something we want like a second eye and i'm always like does that match that is that the same like make the swatches match i'm so obsessed with it but i really do think it adds a nice consistency so i'm just kind of making sure that my little wave sets that are coming in are consistent and that they look like they match and now they do okay we've got a few questions in the chat so um natasha prakash asks do you offer two versions for clients or do you include more so we used to offer three concepts um but lately because we really have just really honed our skill we only offer two um and we offer two very like they're amazing options and we prove why they work and so um that's what we present to clients um and then um rifka o'connell asks do you ever get stubborn about a concept that you really want to make work but it just isn't how long would you try to fix it before admitting defeat okay who asked that uh rifka rivka do you just understand me you see me every time every time i will spend like just when we were planning this i had spent oh no i was working on my friend dave ali we're doing some work for him and he has a surf brand called almond in costa mesa it's such a cool brand it's like the perfect blend of nostalgia and minimalism and they make beautiful boards so if you like surfing and you live in well they deliver boards worldwide check it out almond surf but anyway i worked for like four hours on this custom type that i was like jen how good is this and she was like it's good but like why don't you try that other sketch you showed me and so i worked on it for like literally 30 minutes and it was incredible yeah and i kept trying to sell her on the one that i spent four hours on and she's like listen don't fight it and it's so it's just it's like a universal truth that whatever you spent most time on you're going to think is the best whether or not it is and that's why it's so important to have friends peers mentors people like the people in this chat group that you can send proofs to to like check your instinct because our gut instincts aren't always right we're very emotional creatures and obviously we want our work to be noticed and we want gratitude to be shown for all of our hard work so the stuff we worked longest on um we're going to be closer to absolutely but that's yeah you got to get feedback from others um because it's so important then again design is subjective so you don't have to take everyone's opinion as written rule you know what i mean absolutely okay control the narrative that's perfect ryan mcquaid says he's sent proofs before where he knows they just jumped to the last page and didn't read like the context and the context is so important to convincing a client that a design is right so we just said that design is subjective and it 100 is if you don't add context that explains why the design is right based on the goals that you have and that's why it's so important to align with the client on what the goal is for the project that way when you present the design and you walk them through it you can say now this suits our goals because it for our purposes it you know would appeal to this audience it would look great on a can it scales well whatever that is you know and what we do is we'll video chat with the client and screen share the proof so that we control the pace of the page turning yeah that's so funny um but anyways i just want you to see i just want i want some um praise for i turn the the swoosh on the g like the curve on the g into the r the loop on the r yeah consistency baby consistency and cheats i like to save time i'm all about saving time phenotypo studio says loves this concept you're working on right now so excited thank you so much me too i think this is probably going to beat the other one as far as like the mark goes so like you can see my little crossbar you know how g goes like this and it's got that little crossbar here and then the swoosh down yeah so my crossbar is making a set the top of the g is making a set and then we've got this r which is just going to be swoopy gold so um so that's all alluding to our green room um and then ricky haggerty wants to know which keyboard shortcut are you using to get the pen tool to go back to being a straight rather than a curve when you're drawing these forms oh if that makes sense um yeah so like if you're in the middle you can oh man this is like driving trying to remember how you drive so i think i go command c and you can just if you go command c it'll open up your little what is this like a handle yeah handle adjusted corner adjuster yeah wow and then if you click the handle just once it removes it and becomes a straight instead of a curve just on that one side yep so that's kind of what i do if i want to get rid of those or yeah so i'm just going to i've copied that swash that i had on the g and i'm just going to transform reflect it and that's going to become my okay that's going to become my swash on my r amanda nazarino says what advice do you have for a new grad who wants to get into the type design industry well firstly i'll say just like anything it's all about practice as malcolm gladwell says you got to put in those 10 000 hours to be expert at anything and so what i would do is pick a daily challenge for yourself or at least a weekly challenge where you maybe do lettering or you know a custom type solution on even just a word or even just a letter but something where you're constantly practicing your skill and you're doing it for yourself don't do it for a paid client yet while you're trying to get that expertise up just do it as the passion for yourself because that's the best way to create and play without those restrictions of being afraid of will someone like it and will someone pay for it because those are the quickest ways to kill your creativity which is why me and amy still do personal passion projects to this day because that's where we grow our skill and try new things that clients wouldn't be comfortable testing us out on but then once we've proved we can do it as a passion project clients who like that style will come to us and pay for it and we don't have to be stressed about finding out this new skill on the deadline if that makes sense so just practice practice practice you know and then um get resources watch and consume as much as you can about lettering and type design look on glyphs app they have a youtube channel with a few people who use it um who have great tutorials um watch adobe lives where people do custom lettering and things like that yeah i think and also like if you're wondering how something works i'll open up other fonts and i'll just see like how are the some letters are really hard to master and i'll just say like how are they mastering their n or how are they how is the overshoot how much overshoot is there on their owes compared to their you know flats yes their circles curves versus flats you can learn so much by just looking at existing typefaces and like deconstructing them yes you know so type any typeface out then out create outlines in adobe illustrator and you can see where they've placed all of their handles all of their points and how they've created the forms of the letters but by the way bob ewing is in the house who is a brilliant lettering and type designer follow bob ewing if you want to learn about type design and lettering and you just taught him you didn't know that you could just click that handle and it would just really yeah dude bob ewing knows everything so i feel i feel honored stephen overturf says s's are a big problem and i will say s's are the bane of my existence when it comes to type design um but yeah this is kind of awkward but i i kind of like it because i need i need a really obvious cut here because right now these are really heavy this g crossbar even though it matches the the kind of where this r is meeting there's a lot of heavy going on here i need some thin and i'm trying to figure out how best to do it and it almost feels like the r the leg swash needs to be less vertical like it needs to be more squished because right now the g is so squished yeah squished and the r is more taller okay so what i'm going to do i think i'm just going to squish it first which i know oh no and then i'm going to adjust this is a crime and offense and it's not community but at the same time i like to squish and then just fix it you know what i mean like sometimes you just gotta squish i don't have to mess with the handle as well you guys are all watching and judging me rivka asks about the abstract series on netflix which profiles different creatives and i think it's jonathan jonathan hoffler who's on that uh episode about type design and he actually is on twitter you've got to follow him because he does free type design critiques and they are the most insightful things you can learn so much about um type design through just him taking apart something that you've made and thought was perfect and then you realize all the different things that are wrong about it i need to submit mine again i submitted it but he was like kind of already done he'd already done a few but i'm gonna just keep submitting until i annoy him enough to to respond okay that's a good idea yeah this is cool this feels a bit heavy so i am gonna work on that a bit but um i think in general i like where it's going and i think i'm just gonna kind of by the way josh ryan in the house hey josh how's it going he makes amazing hilarious books um and illustration in texas yes love it he's gonna be on adobe live soon too so i think that's looking good but it does feel too heavy voodoo vowel says jonathan who jonathan hoffler who runs hoffler i think typeco um h-o-e-f-l-e-r i think poffler yeah it's incredible a lot of undoing that was the type critic yeah amanda s arena thanks josh ryan for the link okay so i am gonna just again visually it looks too thick to me so i am just going to kind of pull it in until i feel like it feels okay but um we may have to again just sit on it for a while exactly and especially because we only have two hours we're just gonna get the rough shapes of things obviously this would take hours and hours to really refine absolutely and to be honest sometimes we'll show stuff to clients that's maybe like 85 there and then if they pick it then we'll go through all of that like sweat that it takes to get you over the hump to like a really really great perfect um logo which can take time so also i i have been loving um the uh cloud libraries we made one for our hudspe color palette and oh my gosh what a game changer yeah it's like saved me so much time so there's that i'm just gonna like see what it looks like in blue because i might try it in blue i also loved that orange so i kind of want to just see how it works in some colors yeah and this brings up a good point we'll test how things look in color and how things look in application before we present it to clients but on round one proofs for logos we usually never show them color because color is such a divisive it's a trigger for people it's emotional trigger and to be honest if someone sees color immediately they might make it a snap judgment about something not based on the form or based on the suitability but just because they don't like the color so we always show logo presentations first in black and white and then we might show them potential color ways in round one after we've shown them in black and white but that way at least they've gotten their first initial reaction about it without color being a deciding factor because you kind of want to take out as many questions yeah as possible so that they aren't focusing on sundry things that can don't really matter they're focusing on the core things of the shape the form the type right sure yeah um javier sola says amy could i use your marinate word in my future combos with clients absolutely may i stew on this can i stew on that but i am going to marinate on this a bit yeah okay and someone else asked a great question i can't find it but they asked as a new designer would you recommend doing projects for fake companies like brand identities for fake companies or redesigning existing companies um even though it's not a real redesign i'm so torn on this because i get um i get why it's fun to do companies we're doing one right now it's fun because you have all the power and um so you can actually make something really beautiful and i think there's a value to that of course but i do think it's valuable to actually have a client because when i look at portfolios like just for when we're hiring or something like that or when i'm looking to subcontract if i see mostly fake work and not that much client work it makes me wonder if they understand anything about what it takes to sell an idea you know or um you know just client relations and working with somebody's feedback but still maintaining the integrity of the project where they feel like they've been heard but you're still me helping guide them to towards feedback that actually works instead of destroys the you know the project totally so then how would someone who's young or maybe starting out get clients for that real experience right if they don't have that work to show yet i mean i always recommend um first of all it's gonna be friends and family first probably and um they say don't work with those people but i mean work with those people well if you need to and i think also you can you can donate your services to people who you know need need design help but maybe don't have the budget so um you know find a cause you're really passionate about and um just reach out and just say hey like i'm a new designer i'm looking to build up my portfolio i really love what you do i really believe in what you do and i'd love to help you yeah just make sure that they know that because you're doing it pro bono you get creative control at the end you of course want them to feel involved yes you'll say listen i want you to be involved but um you know because it's because i'm giving you such a discount like in the end most of the creative control goes to me yeah you know so that helps you get a project you're really proud of and it also helps somebody who can't afford design have you know great design great design josh ryan also says brief box dot me is a good way to get practice briefs which is a great idea and lauren holm also has a um lettering generator that's absolutely hilarious so you should just gives you prompts to letter prompts to letters and they're so random and so funny alice lee had her on the other day and um they were like they both used the generator and it was so funny oh that's amazing but i would say for young students if you're just trying to get practice then yeah redesign anything make up anything it doesn't matter but when it comes to being a live portfolio what do you actually show people um obviously when you're a student or a recent grad it's hard because most of it is student work and usually that's really easy to spot so as soon as you can try and go out and get real clients and even if it's just friends and family all of our first clients as hoods but as a design studio we're friends and family that's just how doing your own company works at first and that's okay and a lot of them are going to fall through the cracks because a lot of your friends think they have great ideas and then they fall to pieces oh my god how many brands have we made for friends so like this is gonna be awesome and then it just never goes anywhere but it was great practice exactly it's great practice it's um and why not practice on people who love you and we'll we'll get you some slack right hopefully those friendships don't blow up over over not graphic design please not something so trivial is graphic design but um so definitely reach out to friends and family and just let them know hey i'm doing design i'll give you good rates i just want to practice and uh get some real portfolios up let me make you a flyer let me make you a website ryan mcquaid says moving to nashville soon love nashville we're from bowling green kentucky an hour south of nashville so nashville was our big city that we used to claim we used to go to live shows there we saw thursday at the exit in with like 100 people and remember thursday remember emo everybody jen almost got trampled underfoot good memories good memories but he says a little insecure about applying for let's see sorry moving to dashville soon leaving my in-house design job of five years a little insecure about applying to agency not sure where to look any tips for making the move from in-house to an agency jen why don't you take that one well i'm not gonna lie i've never worked in an agency we've only worked in-house for small magazines so i'm not the best person to ask but i would just say do it do your best go after the jobs because i mean if there's anything i've learned it's not just going to come to you by sitting back and having the connections you've got to actually reach out to those people go out of your comfort zone and just reach out and and hope for the best so um good luck and i'm so sorry that we have no advice to give well i think it's just it is it's a matter of just cold emailing i mean as far as like getting in those people's eye gates right like it's a matter of just putting yourself out there and we're trying to do that more this year as well that's true reaching out to dream clients and it's kind of a similar thing it's very uncomfortable to be like hey you don't know me and i'm in your inbox i'm sorry because everyone hates that but i think i could be an asset to you so it's like that fine line of just being human but also kind of selling yourself and letting them know why they need you you know totally and so we do that with dream clients we try and keep it short and sweet when we're reaching out but another great thing you can do besides just cold emailing uh whether this is for a client or for a job i like to look up people who work at the places that i want to be working with on twitter on instagram finding the art directors the graphic designers who are the team there and just follow them and interact with them because if i can make a connection with them at least i get insight into the world of that client or that company and that's interesting to me anyway and i just like meeting people like that and then that also helps me create connections that might help me to keep in contact with that company um if i ever do go for an interview or reach out to them asking to work with them right right jeremy wilkins says lived in bardstown lebanon and frankfurt for a while yeah kentucky the thing i love about kentucky is we've stole all our city names from other places there's a paris kentucky london kentucky frankfort kentucky lebanon kentucky isn't that funny it's just like these are i mean it was probably just from people moving to that area and missing their homes and so calling it those old places yeah but um yeah rifka o'connell says how confident in your skills should you be before launching your own business to be honest you're never gonna feel confident enough so i wouldn't wait for that to be honest but i would say it is invaluable before working for yourself to have at least three to five years of working for other people and that could be in-house or at an agency um but you're going to learn so much about process about client interaction um all that kind of thing and it's better to do it in a system that's already safe and set up on someone else's time to be honest than to be trying to figure that that out on your by yourself right but at the same time while you're working those three to five years for someone else getting that experience you can still be doing freelance on the side and building up your portfolio building up your connections um so i would highly recommend doing your freelance on the side even before you go full time question jen yes this concept it kind of looks like an s now but i want it to look like a g and i really want to make it work because i love the wave coming in we've got that wave the barrel and then you know kind of like these other nice like thick lines we've got going on yeah how would you make it look like i know okay it's green room so this thing that you've got on the lower part is just to show the shore it's just the g the little tail yeah yeah well then it needs to go up more you think yeah so maybe at least cut these i'm going to make a coffee first so i don't okay i have a coffee and i'm going to cut all these and i'm just going to move them up see how that goes so chloe rubenstein says fiverr and upwork hurt the artist market because they make clients think artists work costs way less than it actually should um that's very true they really can i find that fiverr though is a completely different audience like people who are going to fiverr for design are very ah there it is they're not they don't have the education which is 100 true but i don't think that you know education on what design costs yes it's very different i don't think they're going after the same clients that maybe we all are on this stream to be honest um so there's a different level of client obviously that you can go after that does have a little bit of knowledge of what things would cost like if you can talk to a client say hey my rate is x an hour but that's less than you would pay for your you know your lawyer or you know your accountant or maybe it's the same that you would pay for your accountant people like that who understand that the value of those kinds of professional services um those are our great clients to have and to be honest like some of our highest paying projects have not come from the big brand names that you would think that are listed on our site they have come from medium-sized companies that no one has ever heard of probably or very few people have heard of but they have a good sense of business and they understand the value of this of design so um yeah all right so i'm kind of working on another again but that's a great insight chloe wouldn't say yeah it's fun to talk about these things i love talking business yeah okay can you read the g on this one because i really love the idea of like oh simple clean bold line like the simplest icon those icons that we had inspiration for when you think about like the classic marks like i love this that it's a g you can see it all but you can see the wave there's kind of like an angular-ness going on i 100 can see the g but can you in chat yeah what do you think can you see the g f by the way if you're over on youtube jump over to be hands because that's where we can see the chat and interact with you um so i'm going to just option drag down this and i'm just going to try one where i actually have that going up that like g definer and i wonder if that ruins the wave see and i don't think you need it i think it's more exciting when you leave room for interpretation also maybe we option direct stephen overture says he can read this as a g more than the other one okay as cool as everyone was i don't think it's going to work like we thought yeah which is also an interesting point explain aim why we don't show sketches to clients it is you know for me anyway every time when you sketch something it could seem to work and then you take it into illustrator and you could work on it for five hours and you can't get it to work yeah in the right way once you have like you're thinking about like everything being even and equal and that kind of stuff yeah but then the client's already married to that sketch and they don't understand why it's not working right you know so it is weird you'd think that if it works in a sketch it should work in you know like shapes and in design but it's so weird how sometimes it just doesn't translate yeah all right okay everyone is voting yes it looks like a g and how do we think about like the cut like does it follow the the swoop of the wave the the g like the lip of the wave or do we like it cut everything's clean right oh hey jennifer poole jennifer paul in the house she owns a really cool company called curio studio i think that's what it's called if i remember correctly curio house they make the cutest coolest little like um wheel gift cards it's so hard to explain but please look it up it's amazing but jennifer paul says she likes the bottom one the best okay and uh bobby ewing also votes for this mark and so does amanda oh okay wow okay and what do we think do we like like the curve is that two like action sports i almost think it looks a little too sleek maybe yeah like um i think javier solo's right it's almost starting to look like a badge for a vehicle where are you at p.s coast it seems like a west coast brand that would like that would do well okay i'm loving this okay but do we like how it follows the lip or do we like where it stops talk or bottom the top one has a little more retro feel to it it's a little more like stamp like you can see it but it's not okay so i'm just gonna pull these over to the side i like to oh my gosh matthew flick in the house as well hey matthew flick teacher of the year award for matthew flick i mean he's just so cool he teaches at modern school of design yes ohio yeah they recently rebranded but um yeah man you want to talk about a really awesome school and it used to be a two-year program they offer a think four-year now too but i love that they're offering a two-year program yeah that's actually reasonable for people because not everyone can afford a four-year and not everyone feels comfortable taking out the loans you know so i just think it's so cool that they're doing that yeah we picked the right one we picked the top one that was the right one chat's a little bit delayed for us so it's like we kind of just move ahead but we're all in the same you know distanced by by space but not by emotion and creative genius yes yes i will say i really like where we're going and i think we've fleshed out enough ideas to kind of start like honing in on which two we like best for me it's definitely these two top right bottom left um i also really like this one too but i want to start pairing it with fonts because i want to see like are we going to do something are we still going to stick with like a custom yeah word mark option i'm just going to say a name you're not going to like me for it but let's just remove the bottom right one no i'm so sorry all right i trust you guys but i'm going to save it and use it again later for something else okay if anybody has a company that starts with a g and it's got waves involved or it wants to be a socal brand hit me up hit me up we'll sell it to you excuse me oh my gosh oh that's funny but i never delete anything do you my art boards after i'm done are like mayhem in fact i get so paranoid i just have to save a new round one file and not one i will delete everything but i like everything as it was i'm gonna start separating out my two artboards that i'm going to then import to indesign for my proof so that i have my two ideas kind of like on their own and i want to make sure i have an icon standalone that can be like the avatar on social media and things like that totally and then i want to make sure that i have my word mark that can maybe stand alone and then i want to have something where hopefully they can work together cool so let's pull this down we're gonna option drag and we're gonna start just testing some fonts so we're gonna type out green room and i always like to type it out and i want to do a couple different variations so i'm going to pull it over here where i can actually like just option drag to kingdom come and have different options so i want to do i also want to do one in all caps so we're going to go type and we're going to go change case uppercase because we want to see how it works in both those scenarios and then we're just going to go option drag and then we're going to go command d command d repeating command repeats it at the exact same distance so what we're going to do is we're going to start typing some of the fonts that i enjoy amy save your file holy smokes anna tomzak thank you so much i'm just glad they have the autosave now right like don't have made a recovery wide state you know what i mean but thank you adobe for doing that because yeah so what i'm going to do is i'm just going to go in and i'm going to look at some of the fonts that i already have turned on we can always um search on adobe fonts for some other things i'm definitely going to use my own font beale because i love that one it's super funky i don't know if it'll fit for this but we can try it yeah um let's see what other fonts could we maybe what are in chat tell us some of your favorite type boundaries where you like to look adobe fonts is incredible obviously for you know it's included in your subscription that you can use all those fonts and the license is included to use it for logos and things like that um but what are some of your type of boundaries that you like to go to maybe that are more independent um i'm gonna try let's see what else amy's already doing some self promo here with uh feel bealefont that's the second one from the top that's our typeface um someone asked earlier what other things are you adding to your service offering for clients well type design is actually one that because we were doing so many logos and we had been doing so much custom type we realized gosh this could start being a focus beyond just logos we could actually be building out these typefaces for clients so that's something that we've started to focus on more recently and i think it is kind of a more niche industry which gives us kind of this added level of perceived expertise i say perceived which is a critical term because we're not the best at it i'm gonna be real with you but we do know how and we've gotten enough expertise to be really good at it and um we're you know we're just always learning more and trying to be better all right so i'm on the adobe font site and i'm just kind of looking at some things i want it like i said i want it to be chunky so i'm going to turn this one on from eric olsen it's called maple which i really like um it's got like some nice like um personality points you know i don't want to do just a boring sansera totally so and i'm still going to probably customize it so i'm turning that one on that'll automatically sync um and i might look for just one more someone mentioned ono typeco which is a great uh typeface foundry and they're actually on adobe fonts which is incredible they have most of their fonts on adobe fonts yeah if not great and then future fonts is something that was created by the ono type co are you sure designer i think uh yeah i forget his name edmondson yeah he created it and it's where people release fonts that aren't completely done yet and so you can have a cheaper price but they're so experimental and cool okay so i'm torn on let's just start working here with what the one we just turned on it was called maple o phenotypo studio mentions velveteen foundry they are an incredible foundry out of france and they give free fonts away and they're so creative and experimental and weird and great in the most amazing sense definitely recommend that so i'm definitely feeling the title case um yeah i think so i'm gonna start with that and um i think for at least this one maybe we do the sans or maybe it's for this one that kind of looks like a fist doesn't it actually this one i don't know you don't think really we do this all the time by the way really that it's hard to show people your work what i think and my brutal honesty is probably cutting her to the core so if you do ask for feedback which is really great to do regularly and often before you show a client then do it when you're ready to receive the feedback hey wonder if i think it might be a little too funky for but maybe not but you do your best to work so i can't i can't say well let's let's just keep trying here let's let's say this is a okay let's say that we're the wording is going up the can right so i'm gonna this would be here and then maybe so we would want to have a stacked version and a horizontal version so let's kind of option drag out let's say this would be smaller and yeah maybe you're right maybe you're right on that one on this one we can get funky though because it's really simple you know so and also what if we add like a little circle i know that i try to do it on the other one but like i kind of want to add a little sun circle is that too much i really like that actually what if it went to the right of the top of the g and was in line with yeah that side i think that's more contained if it stayed on the top when you put it in avatar situations it probably would force the icon lower than into the server does that need to go there then oh i think we're losing something there's like there was some flow that was yeah it may be off centered it needs to be like up here or something yeah it could work well let's hear what we'll do is we'll create a little circle hey doc reed good to see you saying hi in the chat oh someone else said hi uh patrick weber and chris porter yo oh what's up memphis's finest over there memphis is finest definitely look up um creative punch an incredible uh marketing firm that does brand identity a lot of uh soccer slash football f-u-t-b-o-l football ted lasso football ted lazo football um check them out because they do a lot of really great writing you know what does this work too much maybe too much yeah okay but what if okay at the same time at hoodsville we are known for extra branding where we probably go way too far in everything and that's what we love we're very maximalist so hear me out it's hard for us to say to reel things back oh for sure does that need to go over there a bit no i think that's right rifk o'connell says how do you remember so many people pure love love and affection i got love for these people no but to be honest it was from the days when we still went to conferences in person and just i met so many amazing people and to this day i would recommend still doing you know live chats and even online virtual conferences because you can still make the best friends so many of my closest friends that i still talk to i met on twitter or instagram yeah so this somehow got there's like a double oh that's why i need to go i'm just gonna select those two points and go command j to join those they weren't joined and it was creating like a visually weird point so i think i am going to take this custom type that i made because i actually do really like it and i'm just going to instead of having that crazy r i think i'm just going to try to make it a little bit more approachable to the mask and because i think we can save this and i do like what's going on here like i like the character but i like how bold it is so you can see she's starting to adjust the r because the volume of the r like the heaviness of it oh we're trying to match it to the rest of it it got a little bit thick and when you have letters like that where you have a lot of points connecting at the same area like the our leg and the you know the circle i i'm losing countertops here they're just flying out of my head well anyways they're all meeting at that one point so it's making it look a lot heavier than it actually is so you'll we'll like overcompensate for that um optically [Music] favorite conferences uh love creative south so much crop conference is amazing with which jay mark bowden just mentioned creative works in memphis is incredible yeah i mean adobe max is always stellar but that's like going to the grammys or something it's like you know like that is the pinnacle as far as it's amazing production value just like you know and they have like it's like you get to hear a talk from dave grohl and stanley tucci's gonna teach you how yeah i talk too exactly like that's just like a whole other thing but as far as um i do like going to smaller conferences when it comes to really making um like meeting people um i i feel like like both offer a great you know value so i love adobe live or adobe max so much um but also love those small conferences as well uh phenotypical studio said brand new conference and yes it's incredible first round is a really cool one that they do where they have people present first your own proofs and how it actually went and walk you through like how the how the proof processes had worked on that project so i really like that one that one's really cool yeah and if you really do have a lot of interest in logos brand design definitely or even just a new logo and uh armin vit who runs the blog is just so he's got a really great humor to him and he's just got like this biting sarcasm it's really great i love the way he reviews things and while the comments can sometimes be a bit harsh i have learned so much about brand design and icon and logo design from the commenters totally amanda nazarino says do you have any design podcasts that you like oh oh gosh that's so hard i i try not to listen to design mod guys only goes like i don't want to be one dimensional you know but i may have like cut out like a really great way of like learning things so if anyone knows any i think i just don't know of any i have i saw that john contino is starting back his again which i'm really excited about because he just cracks me up so i'm excited to listen to that one um but yeah let us know oh and the weekend creative crew they have their own podcast now called per our last email which is hilarious and it sounds so funny i listened to dougie yang's because i love doggy and that's i think how i kind of figured out about it i didn't know it was them and so um yeah it's pretty funny it's like horror stories that we can all relate to totally so that's a really funny one hannah craig the brand identity the rebrand blog i mentioned it's called under considerations brand new and i'm so sorry to the moderator we're listing so many links right now and they're probably like struggling to get them all in there i'll try and add some as well i think this is a little too tall but yeah oh yeah the chat is going off with some great podcasts cool sarah d said are there any blogs that you follow for weekly inspiration that brand new under consideration i love it i think so we just mentioned it yeah but uh besides that i just started following a lot of type designers now that i'm getting a little bit more into that like uh mark simonson i think he has a and then hoffler co i don't think this is working i keep trying to make i keep trying to force it but i don't think it's happening really but it's looking the r is really matching the g a lot more than it was yeah and i think it's okay to get tomorrow when we look at it again that is the key so i think i am going to just maybe yeah like lighten this up a bit these feel a bit heavy still it's nice that is a great great inspiration source phenotypo studio so true so true voodoo value we're killing it with the links thank you so much we are always very we're hitting you with so many and you're you're did we get value as our moderator how lucky are we well what's up how did i i'm so busy in it that i'm not like getting to see but val's awesome and she has her own show she's going to be on later today yeah so tune in for that definitely stay tuned for that p.s if you're just tuning in we've still got about i think 40ish minutes and we're doing a logo and brand identity for a fake beer company that we made up who knows maybe this is our retirement company it's called green hat actually my retirement goal i want to be a private eye i want to be paid like jessica fletcher you want to be paid to be nosy to be nosy but i love solving a crime i love solving a riddle i love solving a puzzle i love puzzles like i i think it'll be so fun to be like a digital sleuth yeah like i i was following along with the like golden state killer um like with um oh what's pat and oswald's um wife she's now michelle michelle mcnamara she was an author and an online sleuth and like they actually helped to catch her book on this actually it's looking great i'm so sorry we're gonna get back to design it's looking so good some people mentioned that you could maybe um nest room under the g the green like pull the g down and nest room to the right or someone mentioned that you could space but so they love that idea of making the art because it it's like there was too much negative space there so and if we have this then it creates this like nice little um encapsulating shape you know so we're just i'm gonna i'm gonna option drag that so i can get something that matches and then i'm just gonna flip it and sometimes what i do if i wanna make sure that the distance is equal and i don't wanna have to like measure i'll just grab this a rectangle draw a rectangle from that shape to my n and then i will just option drag that down and i will use that to make sure that my distances are the same yeah sure that's lined up and we just need to move that down the teensiest bit so i use shapes a lot as cheats the shape builder tool oh and the shape builder tool has changed my life someone was asking about that earlier explain the shape builder tool yeah i mean it's just a great way to really quickly it's a quicker method than like the pathfinder essentially so it's like they do the same things you know it depends on what you're more comfortable with and i've always just used pathfinder so i that's still kind of my default but um i recently learned the shape builder and it's like absolutely and it's almost like um live paint tool where you just click on a selected shape and it will break any overlapping elements and you can into different fills and outlet anyways we actually learned about it live on the last adobe live and we were like the chat was trying to walk us through oh i like how that kicks up actually yeah so you could flash it what if it all connects and it has a shape what if this corner on the top right was square but the other ones are around it does that make sense you know when a brand tries to customize the font they're like well here's what we'll do we'll round a couple edges willy-nilly for you i really don't want to mention one that i specifically am thinking about let's try not to talk trash about it no i don't know of course not of course not like there's so many people that have to weigh in on those corporate brand solutions and i know how hard it is so and if you're feeling bad about a logo and where it's ended up because of uh client feedback don't we all know it's it's time for everybody it's never going to be exactly what you wanted that's part of design that's the problem-solving part it's like marriage you have to i don't i speak with no experience but okay let's say it's like a relationship because it really is like any relationship even with sisters or business partners you have to give a little and that's just the way that it is you never get everything you want and if you do you're probably a brat am i right so it's like never there is always going to be compromise but know when to like make your stand know when to know what hill you're going to die on i guess is what i'm saying and that's just a phrase for like know what battles you want to pick as far as like you want to save your um you don't want to make a fuss about everything right because you save your fights for stuff that really matters like me and amy before we send up send a proof or present it will be like what are we gonna what hill are we willing to die on and what stuff are we willing to get given on yeah and we'll say look um and so we go into the conversation knowing what we want to make a stand for and knowing what we'll let the client have you know um okay i have an idea it's so funny because the chat has so many good ideas but it's like when someone's trying to art direct you with words and you're like i don't understand but i know what you're saying would be awesome so um terry johnson says yes connect it to create the room the green right some people are saying that the swash could have almost connected to the m i think is what i was hearing oh like a down okay we can try that so like we're just going to option drag we can totally do that so what we can do what's interesting is i always think of a wave crashing from left to right but what you've just made is a wave that's crashing from right to left right yeah so we can do it like that oh yeah oh that's cool that actually has more um yeah it's not so much like yeah it's not so obvious it's actually like way more and it feels more symmetric like the spacing feels more right when it went all the way up on the right hand side i think it was too heavy on that right hand side it threw it off and actually centering a logo like that would be a total pain in the butt oh my gosh because it's actually not really centered in itself and especially if we um but on the end yeah it doesn't work like you would think if anything the end would have to continue to the right and then cut down that's it that's totally it okay so i'm just gonna i'm using my white arrow selection my white direct select tool which is like my best friend in the whole world sorry jen and i use that a lot to adjust things that i've already created instead of having to make something new from scratch okay so there's that i'm just gonna just close that in okay and then nikita has an idea okay to round the r ascender where it hits the the horizontal line to round that connector there so that it mirrors more of the g here uh down on the lower part those two corners making it rounded really okay great idea nikita that's great so we can actually try to use this shape builder if i can find it i don't use it that much on here so i oh here it is shape builder so the shape builder if i just draw a line in between these two it connects them yeah it's really cool so but those weren't those weren't aligned so let's go ahead and line those first oh it's because one of them has an outline and oh the outlines don't actually go like that and i'm going to suck up those two selected and then i go to my shape builder and you just draw a little line there it is holy smokes and then i'm going to direct the crows so now i'm going to direct select these two corners and you see this little dot pops up and i'm just going to use that to start rounding and that's really oh yeah your corner tools yeah love those and it's interesting if you make it you don't need this i'm just going to delete that i don't need that now i like it ending like that i do i didn't like it connected see that doesn't connect why doesn't it all just this is when we break up this is the beginning of the although now the top and the bottom don't really match i'm just going to move this because this is definitely not it so let's get rid of that but we'll save it just in case just in case so i'm also going to copy that and get rid of it because that might be it but i don't think so so i'm going to copy that over there and now i'm going to now we have the room to play with this oh my gosh you know what this could do i could curl up and actually just create a wave too much okay wait move the r back over and see if you can just align that to the end i don't know it might not work back over where like there oh with the o's in there yeah but with the word okay i don't think what do you mean i don't know yeah i mean here's what i'm thinking so i think we just go let's match this i've drawn a little guide i'm gonna just hold shift and okay brian patterson says asks would you say that style guides are mandatory for every client that you design a logo or mark for or is it up to you to decide who to make one for so usually if we're only designing a logo for someone usually what we'll do is like a one sheet pdf for them that's very simple it's like hey this this is your space guidelines of space to keep around the logo here's some examples of what not to do with your logo and we'll show them stretching or rearranging elements and then we'll just tell them at least ah gosh if it's just a logo there's really so little you need to tell them color spacing so really yeah it only comes into play if you're doing some sort of a brand package where you're gonna include type and color and things like that that's when we would start doing uh brand guidelines for people which by the way there was a point in our husband life as a studio where we could only get one-off logo projects and we realized oh well that's all we're showing on our portfolio so we started giving people insane deals to do packages so that we could show on our portfolio full systems that had more than just a logo that had tight color and some sort of collateral and after that it's weird people have to see it to know that you do it to know that they want it and um so we we had to show it um to be able to get it and since then we just don't take on any work that's just a logo and what we do is with our proposals if someone just wants a logo we'll show them a package with just the logo and then for a ridiculously easy price jump that would be silly not to choose the slightly larger price for the way bigger scope um we bump it up i'm gonna try cursive i don't i don't think that's the right thing i think i want what i want is calligraphy yeah cause i was thinking it might be fun to do something like see like this casey i like that yeah and it does harken back to what you got going right which i like so ryan mcquaid wants to give you a pat on the back for surviving the stress of having us um how many people at least 400 people as your art director 400 shoulder art directors my nightmare oh thanks ryan okay so i am going to turn on oh casey's already turned on great it's like i knew that i needed it so what i'm going to do is i'm going to i'm going to use casey which i'll type it in here in my character panel casey classic by the way if you're just tuning in and you're on youtube jump over to behance because that's where the chat is where i can see you and say hi and amy can see you and say hi this is amy i'm jen we're with hood spot and we're designing a logo and an identity um for a fake beer company we made up called green room okay so like let's say okay first of all which of these do we like do we like it with the sun i like it with the sun i think but earlier people said they like the sun because it someone said it add kind of like a human element to it um because i feel like it could go either way yeah yeah what you would have to do is i think send them an avatar version where you overcompensate if can you move it up a little i can i can absolutely that negative space at the top i don't know i mean it doesn't bother me but i don't like that it looks like a person actually i don't like that it looks like a like a bathroom sign do you know what i mean does it look better there right maybe that's two i actually like that one yeah it adds up and it kind of follows that like diagonal that we're using to add that you know but actually it feels like it needs to be in the middle of whatever this is centered on the center so that's where it is yeah okay so let's go ahead and say that's our icon for this one so at this point we're kind of moving things off that haven't worked and we're going to start separating things out onto our boards for what will eventually go into our proof deck and when we make our design files i like to set mine you've got yours at the default eight and a half by eleven what i like to do is set mine up for a 16 by nine um landscape so that when i drop it into our presentation deck it's like the exact right aspect ratio and we build our um proof decks and indesign because that's where we have you know our templates already saved um which by the way get your proof deck like get your discovery deck all that create a template and then just save as and have those things easy to replicate per project that way you don't have to be starting from scratch every time right totally i agree with that daniel ramos says i wish somebody to get to this level i believe in you daniel if you could see our early work in fact if you go on dribble all the way back in our profile we realized the other day that we have never archived anything so you can see all the way back to the first designs because we got on dribble even before we started hud spot like a few weeks before so it would be fun to go back there and see that it wasn't always like this so what i'm doing is i'm just kind of making all the different variations i want to show them that this logo works in a myriad of layouts right right stacked um on its icon on its own um horizontally oriented yeah like website and you could even do one even more horizontally oriented with like green room on one line right maybe we have that descriptor and for my descriptors always like if i'm using like a really personality font like that i might use something like non-descript jnl which is one of my favorite fonts from jeff levine it's like it almost looks like a hand painted signage kind of a thing right so it's like it's a little bit imperfect and wonky and weird in the best way right so and i'm gonna just kern it a bit because those o's feel a little bit wide to me and just do a couple things here and there sarah dew asks do you have your proof deck available in your project proposal template actually if you save as on our project proposal template that's what we did and we made our proof deck just from that um so it's all the same type styles all the same layout we just changed the title from uh proposal to discovery too yeah we had a few other things yeah i mean the sections are obviously different but um all the type styles and like you know the main structure of it as far as like the pagination and stuff kind of stays the same so and sometimes what i do like for something like this where there's really thick thicks and really thin thins like if you think about scaling that down um like way down to like a favicon which is this will probably be the favicon right favicon favicon anyway it's gonna be that so what i'm gonna do is i'm gonna scale it way down and then i might use either offset path or just add a stroke because i wanna make sure that those things don't get so thin that they get lost right so and that's that's something we would give them or it's like oh in your tiniest iterations you can use this variation which is a little bit thicker so that the detail doesn't get lost totally and that's a handy page to have in your brand guidelines is just like what files to use when how to use these files like as simple as it is some clients won't know when to use a png versus eps and things like that so um yeah i think i'll just go hey sarah a from the uk thanks for joining us she asked how much do our logo packages cost i'm going to tell you right now it changes for every client so we have generally three tiers that we've priced that we're like okay for a small medium and a large size business for logo type and color because those are the three things that we can always depend that we will deliver logo type and color for a brand identity package and then after that we'll usually customize some sort of collateral for the client based on what their business is and what they need um so we kind of have in our in our mind though a small medium large pricing and then after we talk to the client and kind of hear about their their value metrics and and um you know the size really of what who they are and what they do then we kind of like fit it to them to make it just right for them you know what i just realized i never measured this and now i'm seeing that this negative space is different than this negative space those always make me crazy i want it all to be super consistent super super like it works so like i'm gonna make a little rectangle there pickett 10 editor says stop lying you only respond to the famous people not even true i'm telling you we still do projects for friends that call down not that much no matter how far you get you always still do stuff for friends inevitably or just for like smaller companies that you really believe in and to be honest the the bigger projects make it to where we can still justify doing a few of those small projects if we were only doing all stuff for for smaller companies obviously it would be hard to maintain um the income goals that we have but because if we get a certain amount of larger clients and we can also do maybe stuff to be honest the smaller clients give you more freedom and flexibility than often the larger clients do when you're working with big brands you're uh a lot of times working within existing constraints there's a lot more risk and so you have to be a lot more careful um whereas with small clients you get that blank check man you get to do a lot more so we still do love working with small clients although can i play devil's advocate sometimes when you work with small clients because they're working with their own money they can be very precious with decisions instead of trusting you because there's a lot of fear attached with this is my savings you know so there is a lot more work that sometimes has to be done initially just to create that trust that like hey i'm for you i know what i'm doing that's why you hired me yeah but once you gain their trust those people are like they're like your best friends like my client jeff wang who runs a yoga studio that we've been doing work with for forever he sent me zabar's zabar's bagels the other day from new york as like a christmas gift it was so kind because i kept complaining about california bagels yeah bagels here are like pieces of bread with holes cut out they have no idea how to make bagels correctly in california it's a travesty all right cool so we've got that option kind of built out you can see and usually what i'll do like i'm going to go ahead and save this and i'm going to open indesign for the last like 15 minutes or so good idea that we have because i like to lay out my proofs and show them okay here's like your key mark like here's the one you'll probably use most freak most often um but here's all these other marks and what they're for and why a logo comes with a system of marks right so what i'm gonna do is i'm going to open up a round one proof for a different client and just save as that's what i like to do okay so we're gonna skip that oh stuart dooley has a great question and good job on your your type formatting so i saw it he does asterisk asterisk asterisk please see this in all caps i saw it he said trying to stand out um what percent of time do you invest in your own brand versus um marketing wait in your own brand versus marketing i'm thinking that you mean in your own company versus client work am i right there in your own okay no yes you are saying that okay so for us it's changed over the years when we first started hutzba our own design studio the first two years i have to be real with you because we started when we were a little bit unprepared and very young we were just scrambling to get work and pay the bills and not um you know run out of money so it was very much mostly service based um spending our time but by year three we realized okay we need to reinvest in our business actually take the time we were running behind on doing bookkeeping on getting our website updated and things like that that are very important recording new clients so slowly slowly we've been building up more and more time spent on internals i would say between years three and like six or seven it was more like uh 60 to 70 client work and then 30 to 40 just internal management and tasks that you don't get paid for but they're important for you know keeping eyes on your business and just keeping it running smoothly and now that we've built up our audience and our offering products and um passive income kind of things like that like um you know our fonts or our book or things like our course we're probably actually spending more like 50 50 um as far as 50 of our time on internal projects or internal you know marketing initiatives and stuff like that and then 50 of the time with clients and it has totally shown in our revenue breakdown so now about 50 of our income is from products that we've launched and that includes typefaces our course our book and it's so awesome to know that that product we created it once and it's going to keep generating income even without us having to continue to manage it with actual ongoing time effort and energy or at least not that much what i love about our fonts too is like not only is it like so rewarding to have a typeface that you've built out that people can use it's also so cool to see how other people use it and then even beyond that it's like it just keeps making money and the more people use it and share it um the more it kind of gains momentum so it's like it just keeps kind of snowballing i love font that fonts has become such a thing for us and yeah totally it's a really cool one and actually learning to market things which stuart was talking about has been kind of a new thing for us too um as far as not just marketing to our organic audience which is our newsletter which by the way if you have if you do freelance or if you have your own studio get a newsletter asap get at least something where you can capture people's emails they can subscribe to things because you know social media you're renting that space that people someone could hack into your social account you could lose those profiles and you would lose your audience so you want to capture those that audience um and get them to subscribe if they can so you can talk with them direct and you don't ever lose those people um so that's like obviously an organic way for us to sell things in market to people who have already followed us but lately we've been learning the ad game which is so scary um and i don't want to be an annoying person bombarding others with ads but we're trying to figure it out so i'm just in indesign right now and you can kind of see um what i'm doing here i'm i've got all of my little marks on the page i've kind of laid them out in order i've got up here i always like to name my options easily for the client so that when they give me feedback we're all on the same page it's not like the one with the little dot in the the swooshy thing it's like you want to make sure everyone's clear and on the same page so yeah round one option a and i make sure to include the round two because you know they'll be around two potentially if they have edits on you know a favorite option totally so below my um round one option a then i might do something like notes i might include notes things that i want to review with the client and i want to remember so i'll just put notes and then i'll do a bulleted list or and that's a great cheat sheet if you're reviewing this with a client over a video call or in person instead of having to remember what you want to say on the spot when you get stressed having that little notes area is great for the client later on when they re-review it or if they pass it along to anyone who wasn't in that immediate meeting but it's also good for you because you remember what you want to say about it totally by the way adobe team i love you all can you bring in you know in indesign when you can align a bullet point the text in it so that it all aligns on that same margin can you add that functionality to illustrator please jen this is for type setting no i know but i just want an illustrator every once in a while please okay so we're gonna just kind of format this a bit i've got notes and then i'm gonna you know type some things in here that i want to draw the client's attention to yeah um you know scaled i might mention that the scaled down favicon has been adjusted to be legible yeah and i might even have to further adjust it you can see yeah so but for now we're just going to keep working and i love this little tip of like if you're making a bulleted list and you want to make sure all the text lines up you're just going to go command and then the bar and it'll make sure everything lines up with wherever your cursor's at so that's the feature adobe that i please please please want in illustrator because sometimes i just make notes in there and i just cannot stand the ragged justification on the bullets i'm just going to kind of adjust my artboards here and then if i save here of course because it's linked in in um indesign oh ricky haggerty i'm so sorry ricky haggerty said our ad targeting hounded her so long she bought the book it's working now i'm sorry ricky but also i'm glad we found each other oh that's so funny okay cool so i'm just gonna like adjust this but i've got everything marked so that they know like when i'm talking about something a lot of clients don't understand the verbiage that goes into logo word mark logo mark honestly half the time i'm like icon logo mark you know so it's like i'm trying to make sure that we're on the same page by labeling everything super clearly i've got option a i've got here and what i'm going to do is even before this page so i'm just going to go to my pages bar and i'm going to option drag one right up here and i'm going to pick the option that is the key option so i'm just going to delete these and why is that i want to show them like i want to have a wow page where it's like look at just this because yeah when we're going through these proofs with them over a video chatter in person the first we say okay this is option a we want to show them one stark mark that is like the clearest encapsulation of that concept on the first page because if we show them that second page with all those different variations they'd probably get overwhelmed absolutely and inevitably they say which one is my logo they don't understand yet so we have to show them hey this is your main logo and then on the second page we'll show them all right these are variable logos that are used for different versions depending on where they're being used right yeah and that's when you explain it to them and that helps them kind of process it in a logical fashion you're telling them a story and you want to kind of like drip content it to make make sense totally and then so like once i have all my pages that i need um i'll just uh basically just you know option drag or you know select them and make copies so i'm just going to select that that first option go down to the page three i've got them all shift selected and i'm going to duplicate those okay quickly um sarah a says unrelated but has anyone ever told you you look a bit like leslie mann amy gets told all the time she looks like famous people i have never been told i look like a face you or me that looks like you look like leslie mann oh it's so weird because now that i'm getting older i'm getting different things and i'm like i'm never sure if i'm like offended or excited you know but yeah leslie man i'm that's nice okay phenotypo studio says curious if disney made you sign nda or non-compete contracts i can't remember about the non-compete but they did have terms you know that we just had to keep it quiet while the movie was under wraps obviously and that makes sense that a client wouldn't want you to be leaking like progress shots or anything you know what i mean so there was like you know simple things like that which are pretty um standard with most clients where you just keep things quiet until projects are launched cool so i'm just going to keep going and like putting in some and you know what i always do in a proof too which we may not have time for but i might go ahead and just um i'm going to save this and i'm going to open photoshop because i like to even mock up the logos just really roughly on a can i want to show them and i might even put in like a page where i show them the logo mocked up roughly on the can just so they can see how much how great it looks and how much it stands out it's so true mock-ups will do so much for your proof decks when you show someone just a logo on a white background black on white it doesn't look real yet to them especially people who aren't creative they're non-designers um they don't have the imagination we have and we can't expect them to so we have to show them what it might look like on real use cases that you know would really help win them over and um obviously if you're you know you want your rates to reflect the time that's going to go into doing this so make sure you are building that into your time you know because it does take extra work oh yeah for sure you've mentioned before which i love doing that extra work of seeing how it might look on a can which might require a little bit of extra design beyond just the logo obviously it's a great way to also true it's it's so so true so that's why i do like to test it let's grab a let's grab a um little mock-up that i was using the other day that i really like it's just really quick so i can just kind of throw something in here um so let's go ahead and double click this we're gonna turn off this layer and um so go to my here and i'm i think i'm gonna select you notice like this one because we're going and it's going to go up the can so we'll see i'm going to import them separately yeah so first i'm going to i want to do this orange swash so i'm going to go into photoshop and i'm just going to create a box to create a color and i'm gonna double click that oh my gosh i love it we're we're getting all of our doppelgangers now everybody's joining in thank you for telling me mine everyone said someone who was it doggery said jen you look like famous people's twins that's hysterical elevation a lot asked if we used um proof pro like apps that help us get approvals from clients through the app we used to use base camp but to be honest i realized that the less i have to to educate a client on how to use yet another app the better because a lot of clients just won't learn new programs so um i try and keep it as simple as possible i just send them a proof pdf that they can easily forward to people on their team and then i just get an email approval and then this is an important step save the email as a pdf where they approved it you always want proof of that approval you know um and it doesn't have to be approved but it could say good to go it could anything that shows that they've given you the green light just notice that the blacks don't match i've done that before all right so i'm just going to make that paste that back in smart object and i'm just going to rotate it and hold shift down to get the perfect rotation now i can release shift and i'm just going to have this go down we're going to see if this works it may not work but i just want to see and i may have to rotate them both but i've imp imported them separately so that they're each easily editable whoo i mean you could everything it's already looking really cool right so it's it's not fully there but it's definitely getting there i think the icon could get smaller really or the monogram again terms are really hard to remember but it's important to get used to using them properly okay so that gets smaller and then maybe we do green room burger there okay and then the cool thing is this has a um as a jpeg or a png and put it in our proof deck and we're already showing like our client hey look how good this looks already and it's this is with minimal you know minimal effort and right now it kind of looks like a sun-kissed can i'm not gonna lie i'm seeing science but um the other day i designed something i'm like this is so good and then i accidentally designed that sprite uh you love it so much right oh my gosh think i'm just going to go ahead and save this okay chris porter with a new color yes elevation a lot also mentioned adobe dimension which also lets you almost make your own mockups like it's almost like doing mockups in photoshop but they've got like a suite of different products that you can bring jpegs of your designs into and place them onto things so i'm just going to save a quick jpeg i would probably add a little bit more like maybe descriptors like beer and things like that and maybe i will just do that really quickly but um but i think this gives a good idea of you know maybe it could even be something like um white ale maybe we do this more so graphic whatever this is gonna be so i'm just gonna double click here and get a black okay even having it in white might be good seeing it in that white totally so that's not just gonna [Music] jen i'm gonna apply it's popping too much okay cool so that's kind of there and let's see yeah maybe you're right i haven't i haven't i have trouble with that's like the hardest part for me is getting everything aligned and sized right yeah so i'm going to go ahead and hit return on that i'm going to select these two together stuart says might need to be green this is what's so funny about color it cracks me up to me i'm like this is a greenish teal that kind of counts in the graveyard the store is like turquoise this is turn out oh that's hilarious yeah we yeah we can rip each other okay so i'm just gonna save a quick um quick jpeg and i'm going to place it in my proof and actually you know what i'm going to do i'm actually going to make the background white because i want to put it in our lineup oh my hands and i want to i want to show that it stands out yeah so i'm going to go ahead and just do this as a png and we're we probably have about 10 more minutes left so we'll yeah we'll kind of run through this last part and then we'll keep working on our own and we'll be back tomorrow we'll be doing you're going to be designing and what are you going to be working on tomorrow okay i'm gonna be this is stressful not you've just given me anxiety i'm just kidding okay i'm gonna be working on packaging so i'm gonna be doing more of the can amy's just done a rough mockup but i'll be working more on some can design uh maybe the box carrier the carton maybe a coaster maybe a like the delivery truck wrap so stuff like that that makes it feel even more real and those are probably things that we wouldn't work on until after the client approved a logo because if you're working on all that kind of stuff before they've approved maybe the most core piece of the identity which would be you know the logo the type and the color that would be a lot of different permutations to try for each concept so we're probably just going to pick a direction we like the best and then do those things tomorrow which will be excited exciting so now i'm going to go to up here and what i'm going to do is i'm going to open my discovery that we created and i'm just going to copy the page where we have this competitive landscape and i'm going to pop ours right in so i'm going to copy that i've got command c i'm going to go over here and i'm going to go command um option v no command there we go yeah command option shift v and it was a bit of a different size so i'm just going to scale that down a bit get it all in there and this kind of leads to a good point which is a lot of the research and strategy we do for the clients at the beginning in the discovery deck we're going to bring that back into the proof deck because we want to remind them of the terms for the win before we show them any design because it's weird so for us after we send the discovery we'll tell the client hey give us two weeks and we're gonna show you the first initial logo proof and why we need two weeks is because we're gonna that's the most critical part of this process it's when we're trying so many different options we're throwing a lot of stuff out the window and we're trying to narrow it down to two great concepts that we're gonna show them and approve but in that two weeks they've seen a million other things that have probably made them forget about what we agreed on what our goals were and they probably have all these different things swimming around in their heads kind of distracting them from what we all are trying to do so we want to remind them of the strategy and of the goals before we show them any of the proof work again yeah for sure okay so i've got that there kind of made that smaller so um and what i'm going to do is i think i'm going to take out i guess i'll do modern times and that will be where i place ours so i'm going to go to my proof folder i've got a mock-ups folder where i'm going to keep everything and i'm just going to import our can i'm going to say oh let's use transparency information yes and i'm gonna place that in it's really big compared to the other so i'm just gonna scale that down and make it kind of match in size so it doesn't feel dwarfed you wanna you don't just feel dwarfed you don't need to feel too out of place like you're trying too hard to maybe like look yeah look at wins but you also want to make sure like it wins you know i think it looks great i think it looks really good it's very cool as well like it feels like a hit brand you know but it also we could easily change the background color for different um different kinds of beers that we released like we have a white ale we have a pilsner we have an ipa right so it leaves itself open for those kind of things um which i love but you can see like already it's setting itself apart in a lot of ways with just like the vertical placement of the logo well you can see to this page very simple page like we could get really like uh ocd about the fact that this can isn't the same you know optical you know perspective as the others but to be honest every single page doesn't have to be picture perfect designed especially if it's a strategy page i feel like we can often derail ourselves with like going a little bit too crazy on proof decks yeah but to be honest the best templates for decks are simple and they're just type black and white simple because you don't want the layout of your decks to distract from the design which is the key thing that you're trying to present or the information right absolutely um and i might overhear like if you know if we had a little bit more time but i would probably you know at the beginning of my proof i might even re insert some of the pages that we used in the discovery just again for the reminder and so i have it to walk through them and kind of visually get their mind prepared yeah so i might even do that but these two decks of course are different sizes because and sarah sarah d was asking how do you arrange your discovery uh deck well it can really go on any format you want but we like to usually lead with the goal and the goal is something that we have talked with the client about on the phone but we've distilled it down into the very simple statement um just because we want the client to know we heard them and something as simple as this page it puts their mind at ease because they're like oh thank goodness they know what we want they know what we're trying to do here yeah then we'll talk about their audience where we align on the the visual goals so all right so i've got my goal my audience and i might even also put in do you think we should put in the mood board sometimes i do with the client but sometimes i don't because sometimes they get too attached to a mood board item that's true and i don't i don't want them to think of that we're going to just make a version of that for them that's true you know and to be honest sometimes in our uh discovery sessions i'll show the mood board and then on the second page i'll say important note we are not going to copy these things we're going to learn things from this mood board about what we all like but we're gonna have to apply it uniquely to our own brand and you would think duh but don't have it in their mind that you're just gonna rip someone off and people don't understand that that's ripping people off they think oh i just like that it's design we can do whatever we want right you have to educate them so absolutely i'm trying to figure out elevational law said right before you mentioned going overboard on proof decks i was about to suggest putting together a presentation in after effects lol but you know what for really big projects where it's like you know maybe it's that dream client where you really have to win people over and you get one big chance with like a board of directors or something dude go overboard but i would say on you know your day-to-day clients like why make it harder than ever that's funny yeah okay so we've got this looking kind of good you know so now when we walk them through it right we can re-remind them exactly so it's looking pretty good yeah and um and if we do include color in our proof deck or in any discovery deck for a client we'll usually take the cues from the customer's existing brand if they hate their brand we won't use any color and we'll just um black and white or black and tan we're very averse to white we use tantalize i like to use this off-white it's like i don't know why but it's just so visually pleasing yeah but yeah i'm going to go back to illustrator and just adjust some of these art boards while we have these few last minutes left and i can't wait till after we're off i'm definitely going to be tuning in to the rest of the days um i want to see what voodoo val's up to because she's so funny oh i know yeah i still haven't figured out what i have to work on on my own time is figuring out this mark because i love it but i cannot figure out that and that might be the final one we use for tomorrow we got to figure it out yeah so that's what we're going to figure out in our own time and you all let's i'm going to just label these and everyone vote in the chat but we've got page one oh that's not a good one to use let's go i'll just use hello but this is page one everyone vote on your favorite concept and let's see if we can make whichever one is chat's favorite work so we're go option one option two and option three and i know some of them are icons and some of them are word marks but just whichever one your gut instinct likes best so far their work some progress help us because we won't be able to pick it's gonna be tough on our own adriana i'm so glad that you enjoyed this live stream come back tomorrow by the way you all we're gonna be back tomorrow doing more of this brand we're gonna be doing packaging um maybe some vinyl wraps for cars um stuff like that so definitely tune in okay we've got votes for two there's a lot of twos oh good i love to some people like one i know one's really good we're obviously gonna yeah which one we're gonna use for our final okay oh this is hard we gotta nope some random breeze coming in okay oh this kind of works though terry johnson says one but no sun okay so we're getting some without the sun okay i think this could work and then like we had on the other one we could tuck the beer in between uh green and room oh oh that'd be interesting yeah so that could be cool i kind of like that i always like when i see logos that someone just did something slightly off like you would read it green room beer but be and we can put beer in the middle because we're gonna do it smaller and so the hierarchy of size still lets people read it properly um but like when i see people put icons to the right of the word instead of to the left or like to the right and up a little like weird stuff like that i think it's interesting oh we got a lot of threes now oh this is getting hard we just got a slew of threes oh no oh no we're gonna have to go back through and try and count these and then i'm going to just yeah three is nice wow threes are winning so far really yeah wow that came out of nowhere i'm we might have to i know we asked for your opinion but now we might disregard it because you just have to go with your gut just kidding you're valued you're valued and your opinion matters this is blowing my mind now this is interesting these ease have this little tick on the end to where it's like that's the only thing that's angled i don't know about that i'm going to go ahead and make that out which i don't know if you knew this you can use the align tools to align points amy taught me that as well anything thank you you're welcome joshua young says can you make the logo go bigger so funny again that's vector we can make it as big as we want this is the glory of vector maybe this is where we get our pirelli looking kind of like really wide oh really because i was like over accentuating that yeah because this could be a fun spot for that totally so kind of like doing that oh and it'd be cool if um it'd be cool if this beer could feel like the same weight as that but i don't know if that's a possibility oh right you know we could at least make it a little heavier yeah for sure for sure okay so i'm good question do you think the r is a bit too curly for the at the left icon which is a little bit minimal in a way yeah it is tough because i i like a juxtap juxtaposition i like that but um yeah it may not be the right thing but i the last thing i want to do on this live stream is scroll through fonz first i know that probably is the most uninteresting thing that we could possibly do oh my gosh and i'll i'll do that on my own time and then my eyes will bleed um but yeah dude it's like what if we just highlight the r and just offset that lower so that there's gonna do that sometimes yeah and then maybe beer put it up a little bit more yeah yeah a little bit higher maybe even 12.5 sometimes you got to go in there and get some decimal points but that is a great way to remove that sometimes there becomes like weird negative space between uh letters or words that are stacked like that yeah um and then oh wow look then beer the chat is agreeing with me that that arm might be too curly really okay well we're working on it i know working on it to be honest though the first day you're usually in a fog you can't really make too many decisions you're just kind of so we'll have to come back to this with uh fresh eyes chris porter said busted out so many great concept crazy fun designs oh good thanks thanks chris chris have you watched ted lasso yeah if you haven't i kept meaning to text you and be like chris you need to watch ted lasso because it blends style with football american style and it's so funny and the south and the midwest and it's so good yeah and i think you would love it so we're gonna do like a co with like a cool little the o is up a bit yeah we'll just keep clicking on this a bit that might be too much it probably is but i'd like to i like to i like to push link to like the most extreme it is funny we'll usually go way too far in a concept and then by day two or three that's when we start writing it in and seeing how much we can take away and of course right now we're like least yeah don't look at it come back to it maybe send it out to a couple friends for feedback but you really have to let it get right but um today we've been doing brand zeroing in on which we like best finishing it up so that tomorrow we can be working on packaging um some more uh like the can design the carrying case stuff like that so definitely tune in tomorrow but also there's tons of great programming still coming up today um so keep tuning in voodoo val's gonna be back uh we got kyle t webster is gonna be coming up so keep hanging on keep on keeping on keep on keeping that i'm just gonna maybe adjust that spacing a bit thanks to everyone hanging on the chat thanks i'm telling you this is my this is my social media like this is my social interaction this has been so much fun this in the grocery store i just make real meaningful eye contact with people at the grocery store with my mask on um and just be like do you see me i see you i know it's so funny somebody actually asked me out in the grocery store parking lot the other day and i asked you out there like there's just something about you i'm like in my mask where you can't like i don't know what did he gather about you from the frozen island i was like how are we gonna no i think i was like i think i think no because it's a pandemic and but thank you so much it was really nice anyways well thanks so much for hanging out with us you all it's been an absolute blast please come back tomorrow so we can keep hanging out and and talking about tv which is apparently all meaning you care about pop culture yeah we'll see you tomorrow [Music] you

Channel: Adobe Creative Cloud

Views: 41,265

Rating: 4.950541 out of 5

Keywords: Adobe Creative Cloud, Creative Cloud, Adobe CC, Adobe Cloud, Adobe creative suite, #MakeAdobeCC, #AdobeCC, #ACCTags, Illustrator, Photoshop, InDesign, graphic design, branding, identity design, how to brand, freelance design, logo design, type design, Adobe, Adobelive, Adobe Live, how to design, how to draw, illustration tips, graphic design tips, five, Hoodzpah Design, Amy Hood, Jen Hood

Id: JsSjBJAQGEU

Length: 113min 40sec (6820 seconds)

Published: Wed Jan 06 2021