[Music] [Music] this program is powered by the virtual dot show making your offline events virtual ladies and gentlemen the host of web adverse dr. plumbing rusev hello and welcome welcome to wicked virtuals thought Leadership Summit on Brunt innovation week such a great week was this week we had a fantastic startup challenge with three truly amazing founders since their groundbreaking work one of them of course was the winner and there will be winning the opportunity to be part of the founders games 1 million dollar challenge the world's biggest startup challenge produced by webbot and to be able to have a free exhibition stand and full access to our investors pool yesterday we had a wonderful panel with four leading media representatives and coaches and we've learnt new things or above all we've shared we've shared knowledge we've shared ideas and we've shared things that we believe can make bronze not only survive but excel in the post call the time and during the crisis we live in today it's a special day because we have real thought leadership discussion with three people who will share ask and give ideas on where the Brandt innovation is heading and how can brands never miss a chance of a crisis let me introduce you without further ado our first participant in the panel he says doing not learning to do is the essence of entrepreneurship look who's here Jenko izaki is chief evangelist of camber and the creator of geckos like his remarkable people podcast is a brand ambassador for Mustaine pants and an executive fellow of the Haas School of Business and adjunct professor of the University of New South Wales guy welcome how are you and we are truly truly honored to have you with us the honor is all mine I am in California there's no clouds in the sky so like what you're in our virtual studio well mentally that's where I am well thank you so much for joining guy we have so many questions for you and our social media channels are open by the way just reflection hashtag way bits for Twitter or any other channel you're using for all the questions to the part of the participants in our in our discussion today guy it's been a while and I'm truly honored to have you with us we've been discussing this participation for a while and here we are instead of making it real in person the magic of Technology it's virtual you know and I have my question for you and it goes beyond the topic of Brandt innovation okay I want to ask you a personal question how does covet 19 crisis helped you Excel innovate reinvent your own brand because Guy Kawasaki is a brand itself first you're making the assumption that it did help don't get me wrong Mike very positive don't get me wrong I think it's been challenged it's been a challenge for me I think it's been a challenge for everybody no one that I know has faced such a challenge so having said that you know you can only you can only react and do things you can't just stand still so one of the things that I've done is I've had to figure out how to do virtual appearances much better I used to do 50 to 75 in-person speeches a year and now I'm doing zero I don't intend to get on an airplane until there's a vaccine so this has forced me how to set up videos set up cameras do all these kind of things participate in social media even more do live LinkedIn live Instagram live Twitter live everything and when all the dust settles and someday there is a vaccine I'll be better for it because of the skills this is assuming I don't get infected because of the skills I've had to learn so it's a forcing mechanism this is a time where you know we have to learn to do new things and you know looking at it as an optimist we now have time to learn new things back when before the pandemic there was always something else to do there was always another priority but now I'm getting back two hours a day I'm not commuting so I have to invest those two hours in something and I'm learning new skills well you see it's a well if we start positive it's the positive answer if ask you how did comets damage you and it would have been a different story so I'm happy that you feel like you have here you have enhanced your skills even though I I never thought you were missing that type of skills socially and using videos etc I mean guy Kawasaki's is on each and every ones desk if they do marketing or screen when they're watching your appearances so having you know here I I I will ask you all the questions that I believe our audience would like to hear we are looking at the the numbers we start humble let's see where are we heading to we have over 8,000 registered for this particular panel which was supposed to be on Tuesday and now here we are so our questions for you are a broad range from mice from my team but the first one is should brands try to maintain a law the exclusive positioning not in my opinion I think that right now the the question is survival and survival basically turns into cash so cash is king cash is queen prince princess Emperor president everything cash is it and so it's very simplify the matter you can try to preserve a lofty brand protect your channels or you can turn your inventory into cash and right now I'm telling you turn your inventory into cash because it's all about survival and and the worst thing that can happen to your brand is you die duh so if you look right now you take an exclusive brand like Dyson so Dyson makes these great fans and these great vacuum cleaners and stuff and just the highest end of this kind of consumer product you can find Dyson discounted all over the place because I happen to know this because I'm about to buy a vacuum cleaner because I'm at home so much I can't stand a dirty floor you also if you also go to Amazon and there are brand new recently announced Apple iPads on sale so you know wrap your mind around that when is the last time you saw a new iPad design or new Apple anything on sale at Amazon and so if Apple can do it and Dyson can do it I saw an ad for Levi Strauss jeans 50% off site-wide so if Levi can do it and Apple can do it and Dyson can do it you can do it guy oh wise words and there's no one no one is actually really safe of of the tornado out there yesterday I was talking to a friend who is a major player in them in a pharma industry and he told me that all around Europe the pharmacies are kind of empty and that means less revenue and who would have thought that I we thought that the pharmacist would be like the only place people go in and out all the time so it's like very very unexpected and very unpredicted I believe these two words are kind of shaping the reality around us these days and I don't know for how long it will last but it will definitely be a big challenge for brands and before we continue with you I would like to invite our next guest to join the the discussion because she is representing one of the world's biggest brands look who is here vivica Potts is senior vice president marketing and communications at sa P by combining a general manager mindset with end-to-end marketing and communications expertise Vivek works with internal and external si suit and executive leaders to advance sa peace brand position create new market opportunities and lead global digital transformation and execution Vivek welcome with us and supporting web it's as being one of our brand innovation impact community members and advisors thank you so much for this Vivek yeah of course and thank you for the honor of inviting me up obviously and I'm so pleased to be able to be with you and Guy and Karen to share some of the ideas and thoughts and some of what we are saying as one of the top global brands in the world and just to follow up what I think I was talking about we are in service to many of these very very significant brands you know on a global scale so we do see a lot of what other brands are doing and then obviously there's a lot of things that that we are doing in support of helping our customers and the communities around us including our employees just for the I'm not sure if all our attendees virtual attendees that's a that's a lapses I've been giving fifteen thousand attendees in front of me are the live rabbit and here we are now with the virtual ones but I'm not sure if all of them are aware that sa P is servicing over 300 thousands clients all around the world I think it was three hundred and forty thousand but everything about three hundred thousand sounds huge anyway is that like is it right back yeah so for those of you many of you I'm sure in the audience are familiar with the city but for those of you who are not you know we are basically serving close to four hundred and fifty thousand plus customers globally small midsize as well as large companies for we are yeah we're and we're you know about about a hundred and eighty different countries we have more than a hundred thousand employees we have a global ecosystem that spans more than 21,000 partners so I think it's safe to say that you know we are a very significant brand of consequence and given the globe that we have achieved over the you know over 50 years of being in business we've seen a lot of change happen and so I think that particular position gives us visibility into a lot of different nuances that we're seeing you know globally in terms of what companies might need what their customers and their employees might need and so I'm happy to you know talk about some of the things that we are doing oh yes definitely live again and now I would like to have a question for both of you with with guy we already have almost 9,000 people with us I can guess why they're here because the the weight of knowledge and know-how you drink to our beautiful community of digerati from all around the world this is a wealth and let's start bringing that well to them let's talk about brand purpose with both of you how do you think brands are reconsidering our day should they reconsider the their profit purpose ratio in a crisis like Overton and do you think that this will be a new trajectory in the future maybe to start with Vivek as a representative of s AP and then guy as a representative of canva but also as someone who's been leading this this field of being enchanting and now in a crisis time how does it work be like please start first yeah sure so from my perspective purpose and profit are both intertwined in other words if you are a company that is a for-profit company you know those profits enable you to do purpose related purposeful activities for the communities and and your employees or customers that you serve conversely if you don't do those purposeful activities you don't have a customer base you don't have a community that you can serve so those those two things are intertwined and they play very very well together and so I don't think that there's a choice that the choice that we used two companies you know we're confronted with in the past which is should I pursue profit or should I pursue purpose those are false choices and more and more what we are realizing is that companies have to do both in order to not just sustain themselves but to thrive moving forward and I would say that this particular crisis has really underscored the need for for companies that are demonstrating purpose in a very authentic way in terms of how they serve give of their communities so I think I think that like I said they are intertwined together they're absolutely part of the same you know way that companies need to think about what they deliver to this world guy would you agree disagree what would you add to that I basically would agree that you know that's easy yeah okay next question I think there is a false dichotomy that you have to pick between doing good and making money and those are not the two mutually exclusive goals you can do good and make money you could also lose money while trying to make money so the goal obviously is to do good while making money and I think that that is all about taking the high road that this pandemic will come to an end at some point there'll be a vaccine and at that point you don't want your brand to be remembered for doing you know sort of either tasteless or dangerous things so for example with United Airlines stuffing that airplane that that picture was a lot worse than the guy singing about how United breaks guitars right because breaking your guitar is one thing but stuffing everybody into that plane and so my recommendation in a phrase is you have to take the high road I mean if there was ever a time to take the high road it is now yeah thank you so much maybe one thing I'll add is I think you know we are all dealing with this particular pandemic at the moment so all eyes or are on the issues that we are confronted with today but there have been serious issues that have happened in the past as well and so sometimes it's useful to look at history and see you know what have other company is done and what what have some successful brands done in order to navigate themselves through the crisis and there are some great examples whether it is you know the case of P&G during the great session where people didn't have the means to buy anything outside of the bare essentials and so became a necessity for everybody and so what does PNG do obviously they are in the business of soap but they also move their brand communications into radio and created these you know serials or episodes on radio which we now know as soap operas so I think if you look at what companies have done many companies have very smartly and authentically identified what is the need of the day from the constituents that they serve serve those needs in a very authentic way and I've actually created and improved their brand presence that they have sustained for not just a couple of years but for decades to come and there are lots of examples like this whether it was World War one or World War two lots of companies that have done this type of work and you see some some of what is happening even now which is you see companies like Walmart for instance or Amazon these are companies that are actually thriving in these types of situations Vivek in this is a game question to you but I would love to hear guy do you think that kovat 90 has branded the century how long do you think it's going to last answer what should brands do because obviously it's it's this is uncertainty is what makes all of us stand on standby maybe learning new skills like guy mentioned etc but still we're like on standby or you're not at sa P I don't know Vivek well I mean I don't we're certainly not on standby right I think what we have quickly recognized is what do our customers need so if you think about who it is that we're serving number one our priority was to make sure that our employees were safe so we did all of the things related to making sure that employees would work from home and that they have the resources that they need but go slightly if you don't have employees you don't have a business alright so that was number one number two we look at our customers and what is it that customers want so whether it is solutions in terms of you know managing their people managing their supply chain or just even maintaining business continuity what we did was we came up with technological and solutions and three offers that would help our customers you know go through this change in a successful way and then thirdly you know we wanted to make sure that we are serving our communities so whether it's in the form of a donation that we made to the World Health Organization the CDC or participating in very specific hackathons to either solve the problem related to PPE or you know help help people come back to their home countries for instance in the case of Germany or even today we've been commissioned by the German government to work with Deutsche Telekom to create a contact tracing application you know for for for all German systems so I think clearly from our perspective this is not a time for us to just stand still and watch what is happening this is a time for us to move forward and actually take action in the most meaningful relevant and authentic way so that's what we've been doing and there's again 24 examples like this all over the world thank you vivek i would love to hear some personal lessons from you later about guy what is what is your take on that sure so my take on that is generally in life pandemic or not you're either part of the solution or you're part of the problem I mean it's kind of that simple and so the time is now to be part of the solution and I you know everybody's talking about reopening the economy and all that as if you can do that via a political decision that the president or the governor or the mayor says okay now we're open I don't think that's the gating item in in the recovery the gating item in the recovery is that people you know normal people not politics not politicians but normal people mentally think it is safe to go out and shop and eat and interact and so it's not because they woke up one day and CNN or MSNBC or even Fox said we're open it's the mental situation that I now feel safe to go out and fly and all that so I think ultimately people are going to decide when the economy is going to reopen not our leadership and if you go with that assumption I think you know the efforts of SA P to make this tracking and contact tracking thing and you know testing the the data and testing all those kinds of efforts are what's going to reopen the economy it's when people feel safe that's the key thank you so much guy thank you so much Vivek because that kind of wraps up so much I mean uncertainty a certainty agent of the day it's about values adding value and integrity but moral and intellectual in the times of crisis let's talk about your personal lessons we have 9,000 people still with us obviously what we are talking makes a lot of sense for all of them being with us so let's move on like this I never thought I'm going to turn into a publisher now I'm looking for every person online making sure everyone's stay with us but that's our community so Vivek a question for you and then again to gai and please I mean feel free to to to get into a discussion I would love to hear more of you so you're both great leaders that's unquestionable Vivek you are a leader within one of the largest organizations in the world what are the personal lessons that you've learned from from this crisis which as guy said in the beginning there was no one else in the world I believe before us in people on that planet now that have been going through and they still remember him those of above 100 maybe they have some vague memories but so what are your lessons yeah so there's there's a number of lessons and you know I think from my perspective you said it already which is these types of situations force you to reconcile with what your value system is and you know I think your value system you know emerges once you start becoming introspective so there's a few things that that I have learned which is that you know there are lots of people who are impacted by this crisis in different ways right so you have to be able to understand and empathize the fact that you know what you might personally for instance think is you know as a non-issue might be a pretty significant issue because there's a lot of things that are going on in people's lives outside of work and what this particular crisis has done is it has brought both of those those worlds together in a way that has really never happened before and so I think from my perspective leading with empathy is the very first thing and you have to lead with empathy you have to know what your true north is at the same time communication is absolutely essential and you know one of the great leaders that I followed over my career said this very very eloquently which is the things that are worth communicating are often always under communicated right and I think I think in this particular day and age especially when you're leading a global team with different issues and you know we see this pandemic actually impacting different countries differently different you know age groups as well as demographics differently you have to be able to understand the nuances and be empathetic in the way that you need now the second thing is you have to be very objective and candid about the real situation so you have to be clear about what's going on you cannot just sugarcoat what the issue is actually might be so there has to be a clarity in terms of how you communicate and there's going to be a consistency in terms of how you communicate as well so a few things that we have done is you know personally done is made sure that I have one-on-one connections with everybody as many people that ask as I can and that I am sincere and genuine in not just listening to their you know needs and concerns at the time but being vulnerable and sharing my own issues so I think that kind of creates the the dialogue and it creates that the style of leadership where we know that we're in this together and we know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel as well and we'll go through it together we're gonna be successful at the end of it thank you vivek guy yes next to you what are your leadership takeaways well I am going to concede to Vivek that you know had a strategic corporate level his lessons are just perfect I mean it's about the high road and being honest and transparent if I may add a slight different twist to this what I've learned during this pandemic is two things about like real-world existence and thing number one is it is extremely hard to manage a household and children and just just domestic stuff that's number one I had no appreciation of how hard it is to run a house and the second thing I learned keep that in mind when we invite Karen with us here then we are going to have a real discussion on both sides of the equation now the flip side of that is I also learned and I had no idea how satisfying it is to do chores and stuff around the house that it's not always about making keynote speeches and it's not always about you know posts on social media and 10,000 people read it and all that kind of stuff I kind of hesitate to admit you I started mopping our kitchen floor every night I just found that enormous lease Attis fiying and then I started watching videos about how to optimize the loading of our meal a dishwasher so you know where you put the plates and I learned that there's a rack on top of the bowls that you could put more cups that are short and so I've studied dishwashing I've studied floor cleaning I've started mopping I'm an expert in vacuum cleaning now my wife is truly amazed and I am an expert in P&G what form of dawn you should use and I have to tell you I have found that enormous ly satisfying so we just lost one hundredth of their industry attendees but most probably we're gonna have a hundred thousand of the rest guy it's impossible to follow you you say so many brands in a second if I if I count the branch you've mentioned since the very beginning of this show you started with with the G's travels and Amazon and now Miele I can't believe you you are it through the whole spectrum yeah but but but I mentioned sa P the most right yeah that's a good point yeah that's a good well I would like to invite now with us dear guests already second time in the studio with with web it virtual yesterday she was part of the leading media panel and media forum today she's joining us representing the audience and of course her questions let me introduce her Luke oh she's Karen key burr Leland is the president of sterling marketing group a branding marketing and color strategy and implementation firm where she works on building stronger personal business and team brands karen has worked with a highly diverse group of industries and she is also the best-selling author of nine books Karen welcome again thank you joining so nice to be here again so wonderful to have you here again we might get accustomed to that I would love that [Laughter] every time I'm with you all indeed it's such a great discussion and I look forward to make it even more intriguing let's let's spice it up with the questions that you got ready for our participants all well I think I'm gonna ask I'm gonna ask some questions my of my own and then I've got some great questions from people who tweeted in some questions all right great I think what am I one of my first questions is so and it's for both of you do you how do you feel that customers expectations of brands have changed during this time and how good a job are brands doing at meeting or exceeding or not meeting those expectations so guy you want to go first sure so Karen first I want to know is your apartment always that clean okay my apartment number one is always this clean but number two I was cracking up when you were talking about learning to clean because I do a lot of stuff but I generally didn't clean my own apartment it took me an hour to figure out which cleaning products were for the bathtub which cretan products were for the sink now I am a freakin expert at cleaning my apartment so so that's not a fake zoom background that's really that's not a fake zoom background oh I forget what you asked okay the question was do you think that consumers expectations of brands have changed in this time how good a job friends doing at meeting acceding we're falling short of those expectations my answer is I think that for any reasonable person your expectations of a brand have been decreased and I don't mean that in a negative way I think that any reasonable person would say that well you know we're in a pandemic and so employees have to be more careful they're probably fewer employees you know this is not a time to be on your high horse pissed off at everybody this is a time where you should be more empathetic so you know I'm I'm gonna break vivix record for mentioning brands until this thing started a few months ago I had never used instacart okay never but for three months I have not been in a grocery store and so my expectations for instacart were basically non-existent I had never used it and it started where you placed an order on instacart and you waited five days before they would fill the order well now it's two hours so two hours from now I can place an order it's Safeway and it'll be at my house and so I'm just thrilled Amazon has still shipped things pretty much on time because every day I buy a new form of floor cleaner or vacuum cleaner and I I have been delighted that even in this pandemic where it literally it is a risk to deliver something it's a risk to go shopping and Safeway for me people are still doing it so I am my expectations were low and they have been vastly exceeded I'm quite happy you know I think that's a really interesting point because it's funny in New York it's the opposite we used to get our groceries in two hours now it takes three days which is fine as you said we all understand and I do think by the way a shout out to all those people that deliver stuff I mean in New York we live on deliveries that's how we get things for the most part and those people that litter are true heroes but you know it's interesting you're talking about that kind of expectation what what about things like for example credit card companies where consumers are calling and credit card companies aren't necessarily working out a deal with them about lay charges or you know trust what about those kind of expectations where you're not seeing brands flexing to the economic situation that we're in I'm hearing a lot of complaining about that from consumers in the work I do huh I yeah well I stumped the expert sponsibility in this time or do you think they don't have a responsibility to actually change and and be flexible with their policies and procedures based on the current set of circumstances well my mama once told me be nice to people on the way up because you're gonna see them again on the way down yeah I would say that you know there was ever a time to be open and transparent and flexible it is now because I think people will remember I will remember the brands that I will remember instacart for a long time and Amazon and Home Depot has these free deliveries I mean these are the vendors that I will continue to do business with for a long time yeah and I think that's part and vivec they won't ask you the same question I think that's part of the point is that if you're showing up as a vendor you're not gonna be well remembered but if you're showing up as a resource or a partner you're gonna be much more fondly remembered in fact I'd love to hear your point of view on this yes okay a few couple of years ago we actually did a study to see what was happening specifically with many of the companies that were going digital in terms of how they they were reaching consumers and what we found was that there was a very distinct set of things you know specific things that were happening in terms of how end-users consumers of these brands were viewing these companies both traditional companies as well as these new upstart digital companies what we found was that most of brand marketing in the past has been about how do i improve the perception of my brand which is how do I really get into the minds of my customers right what we found these digital companies doing was how do I actually influence and be meaningful in the lives of my end-users they didn't look at surely their brand presents ending at the purchase but rather they looked at their brand image and their brand perception going all the way towards product use and potentially renewals we also found that those companies that did that were more successful because they were really making a difference in people's lives so if you if you translate that to the situation today where everyone's lives have been disrupted and you know if you look at the fact that yes of course the needs have changed because of this destruction so even if you take a simple example of people working from home which is a huge issue for many people right so we don't necessarily SI p doesn't necessarily serve and consumers but we serve customers that serve n consumers but we're saying this is a common issue which is people have a tough time working from home other than obviously a guy who's been taking on lots of new skills you know but but I think I think if you look at that if you translate that and say well what can si P do to serve the needs of yes of course we're in the in the business software arena we have these businesses performing their best but what can we do for their employees so you know in a in a very non-traditional way for instance we took this example of bring your child to work there which is something you know there's a tradition of this for the last 20 years and we basically put together a virtual program pulling in you know experts and celebrities and entertainers that we had access through through our network and we put together a virtual event and the response that we got to our customers was unbelievable because they never expected a brand like ASAP to do something like this for them and it just allowed us and enabled us to basically you know understand emphasize the fact that many employees and many people were going through these challenges and that we we served we understood what those challenges were will be served those challenges in a different way not just necessary as a technology company but as a company that cared so I think you know going back to your question of course needs are changing you have to be able to recognize them when you see a common pattern you pull together a shared network of resources that you have and you frankly you do things that are unexpected non traditional and you do it in service so it's in service not for selling you know that's not sort of the attitude that we have yeah I think one of the big changes is that as you just said is these companies that are focusing on servicing not selling as the endpoint are really doing well I'm just curious you know guy-guy talked about cleaning we joked about the cleaning right I've been baking bread that's been my and then the other day I made homemade butter I'm not kidding from cream guys I started cooking chocolate for my kids face on the way chocolate mustard right no any type of chocolate frankly brown black exactly I'm literally 1/10 of muffins away from a prairie dress and a mullet haircut you know it is just I'm just like been faking whatever but it's sort of similar to what guy was saying and plumb and just said Vic to you what have you been finding yourself doing personally that you feel is sort of giving you another perspective on this whole thing that you that might influence who you are as a leader when we get to whatever the new normal is of this well vivek karen is asking very tricky questions okay well so so I think assume I think that was for me Karen so you know this is a this is this is not very well known but I've actually worked from home for four I say people the last 13 years and some working from home and running a global team and being part of a global team is was that part of it was not new to me at all you know so I was you know I lucky enough to have a home office you know very well connected and so on and so forth so so the working from home aspect was not that that hard but I think understanding the struggles of others in my team who have never experienced that particularly you know people you know who are used to go into the office they don't have necessarily the types of resources that for instance I have you know perhaps you're living in a smaller apartment you're sharing it with other people I think understanding that being empathetic to those needs and and making sure that we were providing the flexibility I would say you know for people who for instance wanted to take a few days off because frankly mental health is a huge topic now and everybody's mental helps to some degree has been impacted for me the other part of it is and this is more of a personal story which is my parents still live in India they're 81 and 79 years old and they're living in an apartment India has been under total lockdown the area that they live in for over six or eight weeks and they have no help so these types of news personal situations really help you understand that you know what one you might take certain things for granted and you know I think as as well conditioned as I was personally from working from home these other dynamics that I was seeing around me were things that were totally different and so it just I think it is a leader you have to step up I think it matures you and I think it makes you more empathetic and frankly I think you know it makes you a better person forget about being a better leader it makes you a better person at the end of the day and yeah yeah go ahead yeah good I did you're saying dad okay yeah I mean first of all it's hard to follow Vivek now I mean she told me that he was so articulate I think you're up to living usually the ladies get the compliments in this studio this time guys I should do my adviser my turn Karen I love your questions okay thank you Vivek here I think you're a guy's new new guy crush so guy guy go ahead oh wait what well we're got a question well I think I answered it originally we talked about the cleaning but you know I want to add one point with that so obviously I've come to appreciate the challenge of domesticity but another thing I've come to appreciate is the difficulty of being an educator because I have never had to take a more active role in the education my kids holy cow this is you know you think it's like okay so you know google it what's the problem oh my god it's not you down a few pegs hasn't it and I will tell you a it may be contradictory to what I said but you know all these parents who are so anti electronic games that it's people should be outside and meeting face-to-face and interacting and performing athletics and doing all this kind of stuff and the electronic games are gonna shoot them up games are gonna ruin your mind and change your philosophy and you know make you into a violent person all I can say is thank God for call of duty every time all right guy pouring suffix Karen if you allow me I would like to have a question for the two of you let's talk business all right we I know I have to go clean after this show so let's not talk about I have a great one let's go back to work I would just have a question if you don't mind Karen to all of you and then we go for the audience okay brant marketing innovation these are the three terms that we built the title of this of this show today together and evolution please give me your false and vision on the simple question did marketing change forever Vivek yes I believe so I think I think for a long time we've been talking about [Music] digitizing marketing as well as many other aspects of the business so this has been going on for many many years and I think Ovid 19 is fundamentally you know accelerated that digital digit is in of marketing I think more and more what you're going to see is companies recognizing that events like we are doing here today are here to stay I'm not certainly saying that you know physical convening is going to go away but clearly what you're going to see is in terms of how you reach customers how you actually engage communities and how you pull networks together in many cases digital tools and technologies are here to stay stay I think there are obviously some timeless pieces related to how you build a brand how you go perception how you get into the lives of people those are obviously going to stay and I think if you were to break down marketing into the art and science of marketing right I think there's an art of marketing and the art of marketing is timeless that's that's my view in the science of marketing will will change you have more data available to you you're able to do many many interesting things with the data that's at your disposal people I mean if you ask you know I used to run strategy for marketing for sa P if you'd asked me when we laid out the vision 2020 in in 2017 whether something like go with 19 was part of that vision and what we prepared for something like this the answer is no but it's here and so that acceleration is going to happen it will be changed forever and I think it'll be changed forever in a really good way so digital transformation doesn't sound like something that will happen sometimes it happens full-time now I mean even from 15,000 people offline event into the same number of online for too two three weeks and now every day instead of once per year that's that's the digital transformation and we do what we preached for quite a lot of time Karen what would you say do you think that marketing is never gonna be the same again never and I really like the way Vivek I like the way you distinguished it between the art and the science cuz I think the art stays the same but I think it's never gonna be the same again I think the science of it has permanently changed yeah absolutely um planets should I take some questions from the Twitter only if you allow me to hear and our viewers to hear the answer of guy oh yes our the future of marketing sorry guys where is it kidding like the two prior very wise people I also second this motion that yes marketing has changed forever I think that whenever there's a radical factor like a pandemic and a change like this just an earthquake in what's happening it's going to change who the winners and the losers are it's going to show P show who can pivot and move and adjust to new technologies I I have a funny example that sort of illustrates so what I tell people right now is the most important question you can ask is therefore what and by this I mean if you if you do an analysis a kind of strategic look at what's happening no more face to face meetings for a while no more travel the gig economy it's the car all these kind of factors you know what's going to happen you ask yourself there for what and from that you develop new products and services so to go back 15 years if you came to the conclusion that lots of people were going to have phones that these phones would have cameras on them and these phones with cameras would be able to share pictures the question is therefore what and you would start insta gram right so now I think every entrepreneur every business owner should ask themselves based on what you know or what you foretell is going to happen therefore what how should you change your business and I'll give you a funny example there's an animal sanctuary in Half Moon Bay it's called sweet farm and so sweet farm notice that everybody's doing zoo meetings and most zoo meetings are boring and they're kind of just I don't know just kind of lucky and boring and yeah nothing funny and hat and exciting and nothing to look forward to so sweet Farm offers is this service called goat - meeting not go to meeting goat geo 82 meeting so you go to sweet farm and you can actually book an appearance of a goat or a cow or a llama into your zoom meeting and they probably ask themselves the question zoom meeting suck for employees how can we make it better there for what now you can book a llama in your zoo meeting a great example of innovative out-of-the-box a debate him out-of-the-box thinking no llamas in our studio please if you hear me right now we're about to jump it's it's already only eight minutes left I don't know how time slipped away it does least Caron take some of the questions from the audience because they're waiting to the answer okay so this is from Missy in the US and she said after so many things that you've done in your life and so many great things you've both accomplished please tell us what's the most difficult thing you've ever done in your life and what helped you then to get through this so vivec baby please let's see Vivek I I don't hear you though did we lose them yeah Dilek am I on now yeah you're are you okay sorry yeah that's a really really hard question and of course you know like many of us there are there have been very tough situations that each one of us faces and so for me you know I think any tough situation really leads me back to being introspective and thinking about it's a moment of great clarity for me personally whenever I go through a tough time you know it almost seems like all the noise in the background really tends to fade away and for me interestingly enough it comes down to a binary choice of how I want to deal with it and so a lot of how I want to deal with the particular situation is guided by my whole internal values and so in you know whether it's a situation I mean I came to America as an immigrant many many years ago with literally nothing in my pocket I came here on a one-way ticket I didn't know anybody in the country and you know I started my career at Clemson University working at the University post office as a student for three dollars and thirty-five cents now so I think they're you know over that course of time what I've learned is that at the end of the day it really comes down to people it's not what you know it really is not what you know it's really how you are able to relate to to people whether it's your family whether it's your friends whether it's your colleagues or they took over you know whatever it might be so it comes down to people so in my my view I always try to put people first in any situation that I faced and that there's been lots of problems as all of us do whether it's you know a situation of the family whether it's it's a personal situation whether it's a situation where literally you don't have any money and you don't know when your next paycheck is going to come from you just dig in deep and and you just start to say you you stay as true to yourself as you can and you know I do have a state system and a belief and and most of the time it's worked out pretty well for me it's wonderful thank you there was actually a 'fuck question for guide that I wanted to read this is from Jessica in the UK and she says guy I have heard about your 10-20-30 rule but I don't know a lot about it please tell us more okay so she should read it anyway thank you for asking this question from UK guy first of all I'm not related to Jessica okay so the Guy Kawasaki 10-20-30 the Guy Kawasaki rule of 10 20 30 is that in a slide presentation the optimal number of slides is 10 ha the you should have the ability to explain all 10 slides in 20 minutes and thus fallen the smallest font that should be anywhere in the presentation is 30 points interesting so the first two have to do it's speed that you can't get through 50 slides in a presentation you know so have less slides and have a less expectation for time the reason why I say that you should have a big flaunt is because a big font forces you to only put the key text on your slide you can't put whole sentences and as an extreme of Steve Jobs when he had a slide he used a hundred and ninety points so you know that's six times larger than my recommendation now Steve Jobs is the black sheep purple cow outlier we're not Steve Jobs so I don't think we can get our way with 190 points but 30 points 34 if you took all your slides and selected all the text and made all the text 30 points and then cut until everything fit you would be doing yourself a great service so the key for me for a slide is you have a slide with three or four words the audience reads it in two or three seconds and boom they're back to looking at you not at your slides if you look at many people's presentations there's text and sentences and charts and all that crap and sort of they're looking at that trying to figure out what the hell are you trying to say and what you really want them to do is pay attention to you not the slides so ten slides 20 minutes 30 point font and I have one more recommendation make your background black because black shows gravitas it shows seriousness it shows that you are a ninja presentation master that you know how to select the master slide and you know how to make a background black and you pick this nice fat legible sans-serif white font black is the new black I can't believe we were talking about vacuum cleaners about ovens and while we have that amazing people here sharing so much knowledge and so much wisdom and the black is the new black which is very important I believe at the end we should have talked more about this no we have only two minutes I would love you to wrap up Vivek said something and guy as many times during this panel said yes that's I like reconnect to that at the end of the day it's all about people so you say marketing is changing forever this means people change forever 30 seconds Vivek yeah you know first of all I really appreciate guys advice on presentation I think a lot of us could use it including myself absolutely and I think you know from my perspective look we are going to get through this crisis there is there is an end period to this and I feel like the lessons that we are learning which is you know getting back to some of the basics getting back to the foundation of us as a society being connected with each other more I hope that that stays so even though we might be socially distanced I think we are emotionally connected and I hope that we are able to do that post crisis in in terms of brands I think you know brands in these types of situations what we are going to see is that bigger brands those that are authentic and relevant to people's needs today are actually going to accelerate and move forward and they're going to become much stronger as we move ahead so in terms of just retreat you're thinking strategically about what is happening post prices you are going to see some extraordinary brain whether they're digital or traditional those that have stayed the course inserting you know the consumers that they serve in at the point at which the need is the greatest those are the brands that are gonna grow and thrive thank you so much Vivek Karen well you know I used to run a management consulting firm and as you know I do a lot of work with CEOs and executives on their personal brands and I think what I want to say is that I think both Guy and Vivek have demonstrated exactly what's needed of leaders right now and exactly what's needed in branding which is not only the deep expertise and knowledge but really a great humanity and a great school about the big heart I think the vulnerability and the personal nough stared today is really the quality that's the most needed whether it's a personal brand or a business brand and I sincerely really am inspired by both of you and your ability to do that thank you so much Karen beautiful words for a beautiful beautiful discussion and great people with us guy yes thank you so another piece of wisdom that my parents taught me is never ask people to do something that you would not do and every grand in the world should adopt that perspective so you know if you wouldn't fly in a crowded airplane don't ask your customers to fly in a crowded airframe don't ask your employees to fly in a crowded airplane if if you wouldn't go and you know work in a shop or a restaurant with lots of contact with outsiders don't expect other people who own restaurants and shops to open up so a very good through North Star right now is if you wouldn't do it don't expect other people to do it and that would be a very of course I'm assuming you're not a psychopath but if so if you wouldn't do it don't expect other people to do it thank you so much guy thank you thank you to all of you live a guy Karen it was sent stick experience for me to be with you and to listen to your wisdom and vision thank you so much and because you were giving us this motion of positivity I would like to finish with something positive here there was this great person called La Rochefoucauld who was saying that music is the language of a heart full of love and I cannot hear stay but mention the chair of web it's Brant Innovation Program who is Raja Raja mana from MasterCard who brought sound and music in the expression of the bronze and actually he just won the awards of that so I think that in that perception bronze will start singing create the music for the people to touch their hearts much more saying that I would like to sing my favorite song it was a fantastic meeting and I look forward to see you next week again we start Tuesday Tuesday with we have a special edition with startups and investors our usual founders games investors demo day presenting the best of the best in the world of startups then on Wednesday we are going to be having a special edition of the cyber tech week actually the whole week is a cyber check week there is 30 fold increase of cyber attacks in the world during all the time we shall be getting very deep dive into this topic and explore it with the chair of webbot cyber check panel and program Mitali are opposite the chief cybersecurity officer of siemens and she will be joined here by the chief cyber security officer and senior vice president of DM where tom corn and Bruce neither a chief of security architecture at interrupts and of course we're going to have our media panel as part of the attack of the cyber tech week and we are hosting journalists from USA Today from Uranus and from wired so named some of them thank you all of you for being with us have a wonderful wonderful weekend and I see you next week as part of web it virtual cyber check week thank you [Music] [Music] this program is powered by the 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