Black Cowboys: A Campfire Conversation ~ 4/14/22, Witte Museum

being brought up on a ranch i can say that i can't speak for anybody else i mean we work cattle uh my dad never put me on a horse that would buck anything like that he put me up on a horse that he could go off and leave me all day and that horse would take care of you you know and until i finally learned how to you know get around but anyway we work cattle feed cattle during the winter and when sunday evening the only time black cowboys could go to a rodeo but they didn't have anything to do sunday so everybody load up and they go to a black black rodeo if i'm talking too much you stop because there's somebody no we're listening man but anyway he uh we'd go to the rodeos on sundays and i was a little boy and so my mother she could ride horses back then and uh to jump back my my dad would train horses and once he get them while he wasn't bucking my mother would ride him for him so she'd take the young horses that wasn't bucking and keeping rode and and my dad would get on other horses and uh so we go to rodeo so my dad would win the calf roping and he'd win the bronc riding and his uncle we call him shorty which everybody thinks he was my brother but he was my first cousin but we was all around together he would tell me all the time he'd say uncle carly that's my dad uncle colley could ride better than anybody in the country he said he'd spur a horse that other people couldn't spur but back what ron is talking about that man has never heard of nobody ever known not older people they know him but he was a cowboy but he was a cowboy on both sides of the fence he was a cowboy and arena and his cowboy on the ranch and that man could we could round up two or three hundred head of cattle and he could ride through the herd and he could tell us hey we got about four or five cows missing and how would you know that you know but he was a cow man he knew his cattle you know and we'd ride pasture during the summer when school's out and my brother and i we just wasn't paying any attention and we just ride but my dad was we had he'd always take four dogs those dogs would go out around the cattle up we never had to take a run after any cow them dogs around the cattle up and we'd go around sit around he'd ride through them and check them if we had any calves that had worms or needed doctrine he'd rope them he wouldn't let us roll we were too small i never packed i never got a rope in my hand until i was i guess 14 15. as far as on a horse on a horse on a horse i mean we practiced roping around the house but i mean on the horse but uh and i never was good at roping never i never liked it i just i've always wanted to ride something that could hurt you so i don't want you to start talking about rodeos yet man i want to want to kind of get a couple other things um talk about a couple other things before we get to the rodeos and stuff but about about you larry what how long has your family do you know how long your family's been in south texas oh i've tracked my family all the way back to 1453. wow wow that is that is not an easy and easy thing to accomplish don't don't give me a clap for it it's all because of god i i give him all the glory but at first i'm explaining what i talk like i do i used to be a country western singer george straits manager was my manager clint black's man was my baby i lost my voice in 1990 and uh i had to quit singing when i lost my voice i lost my back and i lost my manager but i'm christian first and i'm accountable second [Applause] i know when god takes something big from you he had something bigger and he's added this museum that i i i didn't ask to open this museum god i keep saying god but i don't know if it was an angel or what but a voice asked me to open up a black cowboy museum i questioned that voice i say i call it god i say god i can't even talk why would you want me to open up a black cowboy museum he told me to step up in faith well i literally did it and he did everything else when i opened this museum my picture i have a picture that a girl in 2011 and in one houston livestock showing romeo she took my picture when i said i was a christian first and i'm accountable sucking her dad came up and said hey i need your card i said for what he said my daughter is to draw a picture for the houston livestock show on rodeo and she's going to win it i laughed at him tell her don't drop my picture i say my picture ain't never won nothing he said no i said well you don't understand i said a black person ain't never won man he said well she's gonna draw your picture and she's gonna win he called me three months later he said mr callus my daughter won it pulled it i said tell her congratulations i thought it was for a little kid or junior high or you know somebody in high school wanted in high school i got to talking to him he said he said i want you to come and dedicate the picture i said i don't have time to come to junior high or high school he said mr callus she won the whole thing i said what are you talking about she said your picture's on the front page of the houston chronicle i couldn't i couldn't quit talking to him quick enough to go and get that picture well at the first time i've been on the front page of the houston chronicle and uh my room went up there and i got that picture and when i got that picture i started thinking about what they told me and what i told that you know out of 300 000 people dropped in texas and it went first place that was nothing but god so when i went when i went to the houston astro don't know the astronaut back then or it was the astro hall i went up there and people were i had 5 000 people in there and they're all sitting up high and when i walked in they told me to wear the shirt that i was wearing in the pants and the chaps i wore everything and people say there he is there he is i walked in there oh my lord how many people are here had my picture on every seat like y'all have here they had my pity on every seat and i'm going oh man they're making a big deal out of this so i was standing waiting to get up on the stage with the young lady and her dad i was standing next to him and i said hey i know what she won he said why did she win i said because she's a good christian girl and he said she's not christian she's a buddha she was from she was from india and when she got up on stage the first thing she said i want to thank god and i looked at her dad and he looked at me and then she said i want to thank mr callus for being a good christian person you know that's why i drew him and i went all right yeah well to make a long story short everything in this museum has been because of god everything that people brought me i have saddles i have text chat i didn't bring you you you kept calling no me hey he wanted to tell something on me i'm gonna tell someone with him here we go winner here we go i called him out i caught him in 1971. i say hey tex can i borrow your chaps are you going to vietnam he went to vietnam in 71 he said no you're going to tear my chaps up i say text i promise i'll be real careful with him he said okay he brought me his chaps he said but i want him back when i get back from vietnam he came back from vietnam he said in 75 he said i want him to get 72. he said i want my chaps back i said i got come and get him he came he got him 30 or 40 years later i called him and said you still got them chaps he said yeah what you going to do with them i said i'm opening up a black cowboy museum he brought his chaps from high school his chapter the red chaps that i wore i have a picture in my museum of me wearing his chaps and he brought his reagan from high school his spurs from high school his child's from college his spurs from college and his rigging from college i said i only asked for the chaps he said you don't want the rest of them i said yeah i do i do but he is the only person in the museum that he loaned them to me they're not mine he said if you lose this museum i want him back then i asked him for the buckles he had a bunch of gold buckles and he said you're not getting my gold button no way and i i showed him i had concrete on i can have this welded on here and unbreakable glass you see i'll let you borrow them well that's that's that's one thing about the vocals all of them they don't really mean that much to me because i had won so many but there are a few of them that really want that really mean something to me and every one of my high school buckles they mean everything to me and and the reason i would say that is because my father used to take the boss man's sons to rodeos as kids they because he worked for him and he would load up five or six horses in a we call it a cotton trailer four wheel crotting trailer and had loaded with horses and he would take me with him sometime and you know you get there and you the kids that grew up on a ranch the white kids that grew up on a ranch with me we all played together we roped together we rode horses together i mean there was no no separation if you want to call it and but when i got ready to go to rodeo i couldn't i couldn't ride with him and i asked him i said how come i can't ride with him i said i can beat all of them you know he said son it's just not your time you just gotta wait i said wait for what i said daddy let me write you know and he says he told me he said it's just not your time i said okay so i think i went to two more and i never went to anymore again and the boss man grandson would come to me and he i think one time he won the calf roping you know and uh i said gary said let me tell you something you can't beat me right roping cat and he said yeah i can and we get out there and rope the dummy it wasn't no mad thing don't get me wrong we were just kids we just so my dad had a roping horse and i don't know who brought it up but they wanted he and i match roping cab and like i said i didn't practice calf rope and i just i just did it because it was on the ranch and we could do it well my dad let me loot ride his roping horse that he had never let me ride before and never let me get on him yeah you know and uh he said well you're gonna ride and i can't think of the horse's name now but anyway he said you're gonna let you're gonna ride this mayor i said no it's alright old red bird he said no i want you to ride this mirror the long story short i beat him in the calf rope yeah and to this day that guy and i are still best it didn't end a friendship relationship but what i'm saying is in 66 when i entered my first high school rodeo which was sent in texas as a matter of fact there's a picture with the buckle there but anyway i got in the burma crowd and i got into board riding and when i pulled up there it was just like me sitting in his seat in front of everybody here nobody made any difference with me so i got on my bucking horse and i think i know i bucked off of him and that only horse i ever bucked off in high school was that hard so i booked off of him and i was in the bull riding and i ended up winning the bull riding and that picture is up there it'll come up that's not it there but it'll come up in a minute uh the guy gave me gave me the buckle and everything and all those guys would shake my hand and everything but what i'm trying to get over to you a lot of times a lot of places i went they didn't discriminate against me i know a lot of guys already knew me they knew i could ride and uh but there are certain rodeos that i went to you knew how they were you knew how they didn't want you to win uh they you ride a bad horse or rank horse and they wouldn't give you the score and to be honest about it it's still happening today i see it every night on on tv you know but it wasn't like a white thing with me it was a horse a man a horse a bull a horse a calf the rankest horse that you had i wanted to get on him so it just and the people his dad had worked for had some of the rankings bucking horses and bulls in the country and i rode with quite a few of them and i booked off of quite a few of them you know and uh but this museum when larry called me and told me this i said man that that's not me i said ah he said well you want to poke your buckles in there i said no not really i said what am i get them back [Laughter] but anyway it all worked oh we made a bunch of trips and and that but what i was giving back to the vocals it's just i have a buckle on now that it means a lot to me because it's a team roping buckle and is one of the first team roping buckles didn't mean anything and that was the u.s team roping i won the u.s team rope in number eight and uh i won the world series team rope in the number eight and the number nine and what's i want to say 17 because the picture you see up there with a horse and rope on that was in vegas and i think that was 17 can you can you explain to everybody what the number eight and number nine what what that means okay the number nine is is where you is it's where they they they classify you not a pros they're open they're not numbered the pros professionals they're not numbered now the guys that are under the pros you got say larry is a four he's a four header and that's why he ropes the head well i'm a five now y'all saw me miss over there but that but i well what i'm trying to get you it's where it's where you are when you're roping if you're a little bit better than this guy they're not saying you're better it's just that you catch more than the next guy well the more you catch them the higher your numbers gonna come up and that's why so right now they dropped me to a three so that's good i can rope in a seven a roping i could group an eight roping i could rope in a 10 roping you know but it's just you know he and i can't rope together and then he called me to rosenberg one day hey come rope with me so we went to remember rodeo yeah we went to rodeo how long ago was this what was that 17 it was like 20 18 18. yeah and because we entered in the team roping over there yeah and uh my partner missed and uh all right i had to i had the hard part the healing for it he didn't turn him right well see it's always laid on a hitter so i mean the hitter the header has to go catch a running cow slow him down so he can catch him all he had to do is ride back there and just catch your feet yeah that's what he said well i was wondering um because as you were telling your stories you know it's interesting how like the personal relationships are person to person but like you don't get to escape the time period that things are happening in and and and so you kind of reminded me of you know what what what black cowboys have said you know throughout their history um is that a lot of times black and white cowboys worked together there wasn't any segregation but they were still products of the time period they lived in and so one of the things that i was curious about is like because you both participated in rodeos you both you said you tried to go to white rodeos and they let you in but you worked white rodeos and so what were those experiences like that you when you were because you were pretty young but what what did you notice well what text didn't tell and he was the first black to get an all-white room oh anyone you know you know how hard that like you know how hard that must have been yeah so the second one was to get in to make the state finals can anybody guess you said me you're right i had text chaps on i didn't win it tanks even found an old picture where i his chaps on and i was falling off in dallasville and uh he gave it to me but i appreciate that picture and i appreciate the chaps all these years and yeah i was the second one to make it but i didn't win it but i had text chaps on but you know i just wanted to be like text but you know really it's it's weird because i mean when i come up on a ranch i mean i come up where the cowboys were you know they get up in the morning saddle of horses and these horses would book they'd had to ride buckinghams before they even go to the pastures you know uh so you see this stuff on tv uh about cowboys and i and i don't i'm not a person that like to put anybody down so but you see the white cowboys getting on these horses you see them breaking these horses and how quick they break these horses there's no way for to a person like me i see all the mistakes you know but what i'm getting at that's you know we fed cattle during the i remember my dad had two mules and a bug board and we fed cattle during the winter when it was snowing and we don't have that now i mean the world is i mean we all have to get together i'm serious the world is going bad but we would feed cattle and i'd be on the wagon in the back kicking off the head my dad be driving the mules and so one day was coming through a gate going to feed cattle and he said uh he called me chief and why he called me chief i don't know i tell people i never had a nickname but i guess my dad that's the only name my daddy called me was chief and if he ever called me texts i knew something wrong in office but i was going out the gate with these mules and i got outside the gate and i whoa these mules still going i'm whoa the mule's still going and my dad looked around and see that i can't stop him so he has to run and jump up on the back of the wagon and crawl up there in the front up there in the front seat and stop the mules for me and i never drove those mules again but it's it's we would really work there was nothing on the ranch that we didn't do we we cut hay we fixed fence we uh you name it we did it and to see western movies and they don't have black men doing these type things with us it's wrong because i knew it was done just like ford bend you got i don't know you well willie thomas he was one in the hall of fame yeah he come up on the george ranch yeah he was a cowboy yeah you know uh well that's not i can name cowboys that was really cowboys and nobody ever heard of him yeah let's explain what a cowboy really is now tex is a real company you don't find many real cowbells anymore a cowboy in 1820 1821 was a black man a cowboy was a slave a cowboy was a black man a clown a cowboy with a servant anything to be done on the ranch they gonna say hey go get that boy and work the cows go get that boy that worked in the house he was called a houseboy go get that boy to work in the yard he was called a yard boy and the one that worked the cows he was called a cowboy in the 1800s the white man was called a coward he refused to be called a cowboy because that was a black man in the 1800s until hollywood had heard about it when hollywood heard about it they didn't want to put the black guy on tv so they put a white man on there and call him a cowboy and that's when everybody in texas started seeing cowboys on tv well i'm a cowboy and all the old guys had them died out and they didn't know where the word came from it came from a slave it came from a a houseboy he came from a person that was way down in the pen and that's where the word cowboy came from and text is a real cowboy i'm not going to say that i could be what the cowboy text was text wasn't the cowboy his dad was i wasn't account when my daddy was because times have changed but i did some of the same things and i have a book i just wrote about me growing up as a little cowboy and i grew up as a cowboy i was a servant i was i wasn't a slave but i'm wearing cows and i was on a ranch so that kind of makes me a cowboy one of the last of the old cowboys now you but i don't consider myself oh so [Laughter] because it was money you couldn't drive a car out there or a truck and they got the mules to pull the wagon to get the hay off i ain't gonna i'm gonna let you know that i'm not gonna try to say texas back in the 1800s well larry you did tell me earlier that you were just 49 years old so he looks good doesn't it and i told you i was like well so you guys you guys have been telling us about um you know growing up in your youth and that you guys were working cattle that whole whole entire time almost your whole lives really um when did you guys realize you were good like what was that moment when you were like oh i'm good at this that moment never hit you it never hits you never hit you because you have always trying to do better and to do better if you satisfy for good you will never get any better and i mean i used to i used to take my larry told you about my rigging stuff he got his museum i used to take my rigging and put it on the fence and pull it down tight run my hand through it and lay back and just try to lay back and still make my feet do like this whilst i'm laying back and when i got on a horse i wanted to be able to do the same thing that took practice so it didn't make any different because i beat you that's 15 other people out here that think they're better than me so i got to try to beat them and as far as me ever going to a rodeo thinking i'm here because i'm black and i'm gonna that that that never crossed my mind a racial barrier never crossed my mind until i started vietnam and i ran into well i i said vietnam it's it's it's a matter of fact it was my high school in 68 i think it was 68. either way it was either 68 or 67 i went to warden junior college i entered the rodeo because i had already won halesville well it was 67 because i had won one event i won halesville which was a high school championship and the guys in the broadway riding automatically go to warden they automatically did but i wanted to enter the bull riding because i wrote bulls and uh so i sent in i sent in my uh application entry blank a day before the rodeo my entry blank come back and they told me that my entry blank wasn't filled out i don't know how many planks i've filled out but they wanted a picture so the foreman on the ranch he was a good friend to all of us but you know when you get older you go to seeing things that wasn't black and white so i i told him i said uh would you mind taking this up there and enter because he was on the board of directors and i said i said they said they wanted a picture i said here's my picture and take it out and he told me he said he called me text he said text i'll tell you what they don't want you up here i said well why not i said i mean i say i'm already going to the high school final i said and i want a rubber crowd and so just let me get in he wouldn't do it so i went to the rodeo that night and the guy that's he was the world's champion all-around cowboy and all around careful for his name is phil line so anybody that don't know him and want to look it up his name is phil line he and phil line and our good friend and uh so i was on the bucking chute pulling field lines bull road and one of the guys from warden walked up to me and i was on the inside i wasn't on the backside i was on the inside pulling the bulldog he walked up to me and told me to get my so-and-so on the back you're not supposed to be in this arena and i turned around and looked at him i said well i'm going to the national finals and you can't stop me and i crawled across the shoot and got on the back and got my pick up and left that's one incident and i was on my way to vietnam and uh i called my mother to send my rigging bag and everything to me and i was going to a rodeo and uh i got my rigging back me and these guys we left and went to the rodeo and we ended rodeo and we were sitting out there in the car in our fatigues you know we wasn't dressed for rodeoing we're just sitting out there until he got ready well rodeo got started and they gave me horse six and horse six to them was the sixth horse that went in the chutes back home our horses had numbers so if they said you had horse six you go look try to find what horse you had but uh i asked the guy and i asked him i said where's horse six because i didn't look at every horse in the pen and i couldn't find no or six you know he said they shoot around them i said oh okay he said your horse is just no he didn't say my he said horse six is the next horse coming in the box because they had five shoots i said okay well my horse come in the box i started putting my rigging on him and uh he walks up to me he said what are you thinking to do i said i'm going to ride his horse i guess and i thought he was joking i was i'm trying to ride his horse he said no not here i said what do you mean he said blacks don't ride here i said well you took my money and he said no we didn't i said yeah you did i said you entered ray paul johnny barrett and tex william and i said i'm texas william i said so he said well you can't ride him we've had trouble with blacks before and we don't want no more trouble i said mister i said you never would have heard a word out of me all you do let me get on that horse either buck me off or miss me out whatever it didn't make any difference and we could all gone i said but now i'm on my way to vietnam calling myself a fight for you and i can't even ride a horse i said don't make too much sense to me so anyway i just pulled my rigging off of him and throwed him on the back and uh i'm not a protester so don't even think by anything i didn't even think about it but i thought about what was in it and that's the national landline said the home of the free and the land of brave well i just got turned down from riding a bucking horse do you think i'm gonna stand up and pull my head off for what i sit there so this old guy he'd come down i'd stand after mass man he said uh hey boy i never looked up he said i'm talking to you because a lot of great man i said yeah he said you didn't pull your head off and stand for the nationality i said no i said sure didn't i said but uh if you can tell them people over there let me ride a bucking horse i said i might stand up i said it said the home of the free atlanta prey i said i'm on my way to vietnam i said i might get killed over there and never make it back to the house i mean i never get on another bucking horse he turned around went on back under the stand but i didn't i didn't protest national anthem i didn't approach that sense that i was mad because all i wanted to do was ride a horse yeah that was it but that was the way that i retaliated was just sitting there you know but that place in the one in warden i can say that was the only time that i've ever been approached to where it was a racial thing and in high school riding a bucking horse and stuff i can't say they cheated me if i didn't win first or second i booked off so i came now when i went to the finals in in 67 i had a guy to walk up to me and tell me he said text you won they're all around he said but they're not going to give it to you so i was all around runner up in 67 and i was all around running up in 68 and i it was a privilege to meet the right he'd be there you know and i was telling ron earlier that there was a lady on facebook i don't have facebook too many people know too much about the life of favor but uh my wife had it and somebody told me about it and i asked her to pull it up and this lady said that she remembered tex william she don't know what year it was but it was in elko nevada and he rode bucking horses over there now that was one of the highlights of my whole career somebody that far back remembered me that you know that far back yeah yeah so but it's you know just like larry and you know he he did something that i could never do but he put me out there even more by doing what he did and i appreciate that you know and uh but i don't i never thought of myself as being great it's just the idea that and i never thought of myself being first because i've told him a lot i said anybody could have been first well the first person not that did it he's first so why is that so important and he said tex you've done something that no other black had done and i said well that's good i said well look at murders look at calvin greeley uh willie thomas now y'all don't know these guys but these guys is uh they are in the hall of fame the cowboy hall of fame but do you know they waited until most of these guys died before they put them in there they didn't even recognize them marty's had their murders went to one rodeo and was trying to get in the bull ride and they wouldn't even let him in the gate because he was black he made the national finals i don't know how many times but in 67 murders should have won all around in the rca finals yeah and he didn't yeah but that was the same year that i went to the high school national finals and i won yeah so i can't say i'm the first but i can say i'm the first in high school you know there were guys way better with me that they could ride i could call names for guys could ride bucking horses but they just would not let us rodeo with the white and it wouldn't like i said wasn't not trying to be better than you is competing with that with that animal right you know so well i think i think that you bring up a really important point um about kind of the lengths that the extra lengths that black cow cowboys and just black people in general had to go through just to show their excellence yeah that's and that's but that's a part of america and like you were saying i mean you had every right to to sit down because you were denied what this land said you were supposed to get and that was just a chance to ride a horse um i mean that that that is america and that is the country that we live in and this is some of the things that one of the reasons why we do this exhibit while we did this exhibit was to highlight these stories and these people who who were overlooked and who people who america decided were not important and shouldn't be a part of the story and that's why i mean like these guys are so humble right they are so humble and what they've done and what they've accomplished and yet their accomplishments allow us to see where we are and how far we've come well this is why i opened up the black cowboy museum it's because i didn't want what texts and murders and all that black cowboys what they did to go in vain yeah because if i hadn't opened this museum tax wouldn't be in oklahoma they saw me in the new york times i was in the new york times talking about black cowboys and cowboy hall of fame came to my museum from oklahoma and to see what i had and they said man i didn't know there was this many black cowboys they've had that hall of fame for 20 30 years they got black cowboys in oklahoma yeah i mean like it's they got black cobwebs in oklahoma yeah they they just wouldn't let them ride so i said why not well i didn't say it a little angel said you opened up a black cowboy museum and that's what i did that's what a texas then and i knew all the black cowboys in texas that i thought that i knew you know because i worked for sloan williams the biggest stock producer in the state of texas and i got to know him i got to know all the white cowboys i got to know all the black cowboys and i said hey they didn't they didn't get to be in a museum i was in some museums and i said where are the black cowboys they didn't have a section for them so i opened up the black cowboy olive museum and i just had my hall of fame a couple of weeks ago on the 14th yeah that's mine [Applause] it was in rosenberg texas i had bailey brickley kid clinton worth union skeet i had a white guy that i grew up with ever since i was three years old he came up to me he's 90 something he's from el campo texas where i was born he used to live about 10 miles down the road from us and he walked into a he was walking like this he said they called my daddy puggy they called me little puggy cause i was always ready he worked for sloan and i always followed him everywhere he went i was in shadow they say hey poogie you got a little bucket here huh and um he walked up to me he said hey little puggy i hear you opening up a black cowboy museum i say yes sir i am he said can i be in it oh he made me cry i mean tears was coming out my i said of course i said what you got he said i got an old saddle from 1954 up in my attic and it was in july i had to go get her up in that attic and go get that that uh saddle he had with his name on the back in 1954 and i got in my museum right now uh celebrating that man right there willie thomas he was a great cowboy uh jesse gonzalez one of the best spanish cowboys hispanic cowboys murder stipend sloane williams the guy i used to work for i put him in my hall of fame because he had bulls that was a hall of fame and there's tex williams right there so if y'all want to come take a picture of this you're welcome too and um i have a lot of history to tell you but i don't think we have enough time for all that stuff well why don't you um why don't you i was there was a story you told me a long time ago not a long time about a while ago about about you and your father how you follow him around and he he sent you into oh yeah that's in my book i followed my dad so much the reason i was a cowboy because it was what the i found out after i had my museum this is what slaves used to do they used to work cows they would get the cows out of the woods the white man wouldn't walk in the woods you know on foot two or three miles or run two or three miles to get the cows out of the woods while they put the slaves out there to do that well my dad and i in the 60s were working cows for mr sloan and daddy saw some cows from about from here to that building over there a block away he saw some cows in the woods and there was a little opening and they heard the dogs barking at him trying to get him out he said boy them dogs ain't gonna get them cows out of there he saw a little hole whether cows went into the woods and it was just big enough for a little boy like me 10 or 11 years old to sneak through there and go through there and from here to that um wall over there and i had to go through the woods and get out on my knees kind of like and crawl through there well i got halfway and i heard the dogs barking and his cows started rumbling and coming through the woods and i said oh no i couldn't turn around and run fast enough or they'd run over me i looked up i saw a branch i reached up and grabbed the branch and i pulled myself up and one cow went under me didn't touch me the second cow went under me she hit my my feet the third cow come and hit me right in the stomach and i held onto that branch but then when the cow went through i knew it was three of them back there i fell and i heard my dad saying larry i couldn't see anything because the counting knocked the wind out of me and i couldn't stand up to breathe i was going i was trying to say daddy i'm here i had to walk out of there he called me three times he said larry he kept getting louder larry and i kept walking and he saw me and when i stood up he said how come you didn't answer me i say daddy the cow hit me in the stomach and knocked the wind out of me he said you okay and when he said that i saw a tear in my dad's eyes i had never seen my daddy cry before i was like 10 11 maybe 12. and i had never seen my daddy cry he was a big guy and he had a tear in his eye and he wiped it and he said you okay i say yeah i'm okay and i just kept looking at him and my other eye was crying i said man my dad is crying and he said get on your horse let's go and we went and worked them cows the whole day i was just thinking i said i'd never seen my daddy cry yeah but he he knew he shouldn't have sent you in in that brush like that yeah he brought in after he yeah he thought about it it was 15 minutes some dogs wouldn't go get him out right and then after about 20 minutes the dogs started pulling them out of there so that's that's when i learned that i uh worked out like the slate did back in the 1800s that's when i learned i was a cowboy that's awesome man that's that's a crap i mean i i can't only imagine what that must have been like in the like in that moment but you know i didn't i didn't know god back then i didn't know god was it took me a long time before i learned who god was and uh he's been saving my life like that for years and i didn't know it i thought it was me oh no no no i hear a little voice i hear a little voice and i thought it was me it was always me i played guitar and i sang and i always thought it was me it wasn't me god took my voice because i thought it was me who was doing it all i had to do was start going to church like mama asked me to do and uh i didn't go to church you know when i got out of high school i said i'm never going back to church but i go to church every sunday now you know i play guitar i don't sing i play guitar every sunday for six years i've been going to church and i go on wednesday nights because they have a wedding night prayer and i go in there and play so hey but like text was saying you know he was a cowboy text was a cowboy and i can name you some cowboys but you know it'll be too many of them here in texas all the black cowboys that um that really changed well since you brought it since you brought it up i want to hear more about your singing career man i want to hear more about the people you opened for and what was it like and just talking about you know you don't want to know the first beginnings of it because i didn't even put that in the book like thanks was talking about he didn't wanna you don't bring up racist stuff well i went to see charlie pride in 68. they wouldn't even let me in to see charlie see a black man they almost killed me when i got there i walked up to the front door and it was three ladies white ladies all white and 68 in east bernard texas i was going there to hear charlie pride i had seen him in johnson city does everybody know who charlie pride is okay oh everybody knows well i just want to make sure not everybody not everybody might not know hey i had some people come from france to do a story on me and i have a picture of george strait george straits manager and me and george strait's manager i say this is george straight this is george straits manager and he was my teacher they said who is george strait i said what i said what how do y'all know me they say larry you in the new york times twice and uh we were heard about black cowboys we want to come and do a story on them i'm going oh man you know me but you don't know george street that kind of put a feather in my house no but no i was going there i was going to see charlie pride and i didn't put this in my book i wish i would have but a friend of mine that helped me writing he said larry don't put anything that's racism in there people ain't gonna buy the book i said man we need to tell this story yeah yeah but this was before uh black lives matter so i i went along with him i said okay i'll put it in here but this is the story me and charlie pride i went up there these three white ladies told me they say uh what are you doing here i said i come to see charlie pride they say we don't want no racial problems here i say i'm not going to start no racial problems they say if you go in there you will have racial problems and i looked at these two big old guys they were about that tall they were looking at me and they didn't want me in there so i said okay i'm gonna start no racial problems i walk down i start walking down the steps there were wooden steps i can hear somebody walking behind me it was gravel and they didn't have concrete back then in 68 i'm walking and i can hear those two guys walking behind me i'm getting home out there and i said whoa these guys are gonna gonna grab me because they kept getting closer i started running and something said be like the rabbit and i knew there was a voice in my head say be like the rabbit i knew exactly what god was talking about so i turned to the right knowing my car is parked back here when i saw those two guys take the bait i looked down under the cars i started hopping back to my car i couldn't hear them coming behind me i said if they come behind me i'm just gonna have to start running again well i was tipping on back to my car my car was about from here to those trees out there and those guys they took the bait they were looking for me and i could hear him saying where is he where is he where is he and i'm hopping back to my car i hop back in my car luckily my parents car wouldn't the light wouldn't come on you know when you opened the door i said thank god that light didn't come over i got in my car i sit down like this i let my window down and i could hear charlie pride because back then in 68 they didn't have air conditions and those uh honky tonks they had the windows up and i could hear him just as plain i heard every song he played for an hour i sit out there and i saw those guys they walked back in i could see them i said they couldn't find me i was tough that wasn't me that wasn't me after years and years i found out that wasn't me that was god talking to me 1967 in eastern north texas they hung a little black kid for dating a white girl and and that's when god let me know say hey he saved me he saved my life then i have two more three more stories i can tell you like that but i'm not but anyway god has been saving my life ever since i was uh born and one of the best ones that i have in the in 1972 i had a bull that i brought to the rodeo mrs sloane had me bring the bulls in a trunk and a trailer and i knew what bull i couldn't ride it was a black bull with little bitty horns and guess who drew that ball i drew that bull i hadn't been riding as much as tanks i'd been on about three or four bulls i had about five or six i rolled it uh at mr sloane's place but they were just you know practice bulls i could ride them but that bull i knew i couldn't ride cause he jumped out there and he spin to the right and then he spin to the left and i said if he spin to the left i got him because i was left-handed but there's something i learned about tex he could ride or he could ride right in i've never known anybody that can do that do you not really no no no no when he when he brought me his riggins and he left i started putting his riggings in my case and i said wait a minute i was going to run out there and stop him and say tax you gave me the wrong rigging but i say he wouldn't mix up a rig and i kept looking at it i said that's right hannah and this is left-handed oh i'll ask him when he get home i call him i say text you gave me one of the wrong riggings i said what hand do you ride with he said i'll ride with both [Laughter] i had never heard of that then i started looking at all the pictures i have a i have a feeling of pictures of text riding you'll see he's riding with his right hand or you see it riding with his left hand well i rolled with my left hand and when the ball came out well before the ball came out i was so scared of that book i was shaking back there i said i need to stop doing this [Laughter] i'm not going to be like text i say but i don't want anybody to think i'm a chicken so i said maybe if i got out on my knees and prayed i waited for him to [ __ ] a bull out when i knew everybody was watching the bull rider so i was praying i said god please i'm not asking to win i just don't want this ball to step on me i didn't want him to step on my head and um i got on the ball i come out bull was so quick he just jumped out left and i said i got him and as soon as i said i got him he turned back to the right i fell right down into the well right underneath the ball i was sitting down like this i said please god don't let me step on my fingers cause he was stepping all over my fingers everywhere he didn't even step on my legs he was just jumping and kicking and i said please god don't let him step on my he could have stepped on my head and smashed me but i didn't want to break break my fingers because i played the guitar all of a sudden after two seconds three seconds under the bulls something hit me real hard well luckily i saw stars i fell to the ground i had a buddy that was out there he was supposed to help get the ball off me he didn't get the ball off me when i opened my eyes and i was on the ground i saw the ball going in the let out you so i must have been out for two or three seconds and i said i jumped up i said willie what hit me in the face he said i don't know the ball was jumping all over you i don't know what it was i said no something hit me in my face like a pillow hit me real hard so he didn't know what he was so i went to look at the bull after he was walking out now excuse me folks i hope there ain't no kids in here boy was walking like this and he had some long testicles [Applause] and i said that's what hit me in the face now that's that's in the book that's it but i have never heard a story like that before no but as i got older i didn't believe in god when i was 17 18 years old i always thought it was me but it was always been gone and he had a sense of humor i mean i don't know what to say after that story well i'd say a couple of things i told texas what last year when he came to the museum i don't text that story sir say man i ain't never heard no [Laughter] i've been all around them and that never happened oh man so i don't i mean i don't even know where to go man with that that is both hilarious and miraculous i mean because because you still haven't told us about singing country music oh singing country music i started singing country music as an accident i was so scared to sing and play in front of people like i don't even get nervous in front of people anymore oh i know that [Laughter] it ain't what you think i had a religious experience i was in a gong show i remember when the gong show yeah that was the first time being in the gong show well it took me so long to get in the gold show it took me two years i had one song it's called colorado coulee and i had it down pat but i had nerves like this to get on the stage i would walk across stage you can hear me well i got in this contest and every time i went to get on that stage i trembled so much i couldn't do it i walked out i walked out six times in the seventh time i asked this girl to stay with me and make me do it well she stayed with me and she made me do it but i was so scared and when i dropped my pick y'all know i feel those picks are i went to get my pick and i put my guitar on the floor and you can the guy said he's a little bit nervous y'all give him a little chance well i picked up the pick or he picked up the pick and he handed it to me and i've never been in in a spotlight before and that's what y'all got these spotlights here well this spotlight when it hit you you felt something because i'd ask god to help me get over my nervousness well i saw a black football player he said sunshine on his eyes and it shined on him one day and he was nervous to play in frozen so i said man i wish that happened to me well it did they shot a spotlight on me when i hit that spotlight god let me know i was ready and i sing that song and out of the religious experience you're gonna have to buy my book to to see what happened but since y'all came out here i can tell you what happened my body lifted up out of my body and i had an autobody experience and it really happened i don't i don't just tell stories just to be lying or telling stories because i know i'm telling stories that i say god had me to do this well i can't tell that story if god really didn't tell me that or it didn't happen so but i left it back in my body and i started singing and i've been singing ever since uh i got in another band a guy saw me from that i won a thousand dollars that night all right uh seeing that colorado cooley and a trip to new mexico to to mexico puerto rico to mexico well i come back and people started wanting me to sing in their band so i started singing all over texas i sing i could tell my kids when they were growing up i said i used to sing over there i used to sing over there they said daddy is there any place you happen to sing because i used to tell them well all the places i sing and i sing a lot of places george strait's manager was my manager clint black's man was my band before i lost my voice and i opened for selena open for travis tripp emilio johnny rodriguez three times wow some more calling rain some more people but selena was probably the biggest one that i should have a picture with you know that's and when i lost my voice i lost my manager and i lost my man but like i said i'm a christian person i'm a cowboy sucking this museum is way bigger than george strait [Music] oh here it is have y'all seen netflix honda hog if you take a picture of this won't we get ready to leave y'all take a picture of it go home and watch it it's real good it's about food and cowboys and i'm the cowboy they talking about in netflix it's a it's an excellent show they made two movies after i did the netflix they made the concrete cowboy have y'all heard of that one yeah trash no i'm really serious y'all laughing about it but it was trash it was cussing it was drinking and it was people that thought they were cowboys they called themselves cowboys and they were trail riders now one of them worked the cow on one of them in a rodeo and they call themselves the concrete cowboys i had a lady come in there last week or this what is the day thursday she came in there last week last friday and she said i say you know where the cowboys came from she said philadelphia what all right the next movie they made they got it from me was the harder they fall have y'all seen that yeah y'all think that was great right no no it was nothing but lies everybody see netflix got all this material from me they got bass reefs they came to my museum and they heard what i was talking about bass reese was my hero he was um a good long man u.s deputy deputy u.s marshal he was the first u.s marshal and he was the best steal today and if i had time i tell you buddy best reason uh bass reese uh ned love and bill pickett they put him in that movie uh the one haunted evolved they made them outlaws they couldn't even tell the truth i mean they couldn't tell the truth that the cowboys were black in this in the 1950s when they first had tv and now they're gonna put blacks on tv and even tell worse of the truth they're gonna make them outlaws and killers and these were heroes bass reeves was the first lone ranger anybody know that i would tell you where they got that story about the past reads too and then 19 in 2017 i was in the um what's that magazine call texas monthly i was in texas monthly i had my grandparents boots i got the boots at the museum there are old boots from 1950s and 40s well they did a story on me and guess what they did now they had a uh the texas monthly last year had masteries on the front and telling my story that people didn't know about bastards and they didn't know about cowboys until my museum came about but i'm not bragging but it's all god it's all god i give him all the glory i don't take any bit of it except he used me to to do this so y'all want to hear the story of the real lone ranger the real lone ranger was born a slave in 1838 he didn't master when he turned 15. he knocked him out his master was cheating him at cards he was cheating him on his uh he was going to let him free if he could beat him at cards well bass reeds beating and he knocked him out and he knew that was sudden death he took the master's horse and he wrote to oklahoma he got in with the indians when he got in with the indians they told him how to fight they don't know how to shoot they taught him how to track they told him all oklahoma they taught him all of texas as long as he was riding with the indians he was free in 1865 when the slaves were free he went to oklahoma to be a u.s marshal he went to a judge parker the hanging judge he went to judge mark he said hey i want to be a u.s marshal george parker said you got to know how to read and write because he knew slaves didn't know how to read and write well bass reese told the truth he said i can't do either one he said but i got a good memory judge parker said okay go get these five people he named each one of them told them what they look like where they were the last time he heard about him and everything he didn't write anything down he said you got two two months to get him he said you can bring him back dead or alive he brought him all back alive he didn't like to kill people no he really didn't he didn't like kill people he brought all bomber back alive in three weeks they made him a u.s marshal he captured 3 000 convicts in his lifetime and when he did that they started singing about him they started writing stories about it after he passed away a guy got on the radio in 1933 they didn't have tv he said i'm gonna tell you the story of the lone ranger the lone ranger rides again and he do this and everybody thought it was a horse on the radio so they would sit there every saturday night at seven o'clock to 7 30 and listen to the story of the lone ranger they would sit there and listen and he would be talking about him somebody called in and said hey who was the lone ranger the man didn't know any better he said oh he was a black man oh lord when he said he was a black man he had a thousand phone calls saying that wasn't gonna listen to his radio station anymore the man said why he said because you said the lone ranger was a black man he said no no no no no i didn't say it was a black man i say war black mask [Laughter] so in 1950 when they had raided telephone radio uh tv they wanted to put the lone ranger on tv but they knew they wasn't going to accept him on the radio as a black man they sure weren't going to accept him on a tv as a as a black man so they put a white man with a black mask and that's how the long ranger became you know how toto became they wanted to see they knew he had indians helping him so they wanted an indian to help him so they wanted a real authentic indian name so they drove from hollywood to new mexico they went to the indian reservation they got out they said hey we want a real authentic indian name to ride with this white man with a white hat white horse and a black mask the indians thought for a minute they said call him tanto they said all right they loved it the lone ranger in tonto they took it back to hollywood put him on tv you know what tonto means stupid all the hispanic people in here knows that if we had any indians in here they wouldn't know it means stupid they have a river in new mexico called the tonto river it's called the stupid river well this was a way for the indians to finally get back at them after they put them on a reservation they killed most of them and they killed the buffalo and they're gonna ask what would you call an indian that rode with a white man calling stupid all right but i think that story is also just indicative of what's happened to the black cowboy too yeah like here we are we we are part of this industry we create the industry we we make it grow and yet we're erased from it um and and and hollywood is do is complicit in that narrative that made the cowboy what people think it is today but not what an actual cowboy is today and um hollywood has a lot to answer for in that regard but you know what i hate but a lot of a lot of these i don't know what you would call them but people that want to write a story about you okay if you're going to write a story about me write a story about what i tell you not what you want to hear yeah you know and there's a lot of it in there that they they didn't even say you know or either they wanted they wanted it to work this way if you're going to write the story write it just like it is you may not like it but if you want to hear the story that's the way it is and that's like i tell everybody i don't have anything to say to him i don't i can't tell you anything to like larry i can sit here and listen to him all day you know but me what i tell you there are the things that happened to me and the things that i did you know and i don't know who who like it who would dislike it but it was the way that my rodeo career went and i quit riding bulls in 75 i drew a bull in in dallas texas in 1975 called grim reaper a big old black bull had a set of horns on him like this and i was telling ron that long as i've been riding bulls and horses and everything i never had any bones broke i've only had well i had three bone broke other than that i didn't hadn't had him and i've had horses run over me drag me fall on me and everything but anyway i drew grim reaper and uh the stock producer was jim shoulders he was i think jim shoulder was eight-time world champion or something like that but anyway he had rodeo stock at this time and in 68 i rode one his bulls had gone to the national finals in a high school final i wrote him he hit me in the mouth knocked my teeth loose knocked me out i didn't even know where i was until i woke up in the amalanche and then i told him before he got away from marina and let me out of here i'm not going going anywhere so but anyway back to dallas and uh matter of fact martis daigma was there freddie richardson willie thomas calvin greeley all these guys i'm calling they're in the hall of fame i mean i rodeoed with them they were older than me but i really see a rodeo with them and uh i drew grim reaper and i didn't know who what he was so i asked freddie i say freddie do you know green river grim reaper he said text he said he bad so i went back pinned and looked for him found him big old black bull had a hump on him i wish i'd had a picture and i know somebody took a picture of it but i never got the picture but anyway he had a set of horns on him and in dallas at the cotton bowl the bucking shoots they're i mean they're so high when you own the bull you can just see the top of your head and uh i don't know what did you were you there somebody was there i don't know who it was they were standing on the back of the bucket chute and uh i was pulling my rope and like he said i rode with hard hands and depending on what i knew about the bull i would either ride left handed or right handed you know and i didn't know nothing about this bull so i rode right-handed and uh because i figured either way he went i could i could overcome what he was putting on me and jim shoulders rolled up to the bucket chute and he knew me he said texas he said don't pull no hard rope in this bull and that means real tight and i rode a wide nine rope and i pulled every bull i rode i tried to pull him into i mean because i didn't want that rope to slide and i didn't want my hand coming out so i told him yeah so i crawled down on him pulled a rope and pulled out i asked for this boy i never felt a thing i mean you know a lot of bulls when the first jump out they they pull against you uh they get you set up but i never felt anything i just set up and rode this bull and i rode this bull and i rode this bull i couldn't you know what then all of a sudden i just i just couldn't do it anymore i just i went out the back in he caught me red-heeled and horn throw me upside the wall the walls that cotton bowl from the ground they might be that tall there's no way you can get your toes in the fence or anything you just had to reach up and well i couldn't reach up because he threw me up and when he come around he caught me threw me up again well i hit the ground and he went under me and picked me up and threw me up again so the last time he run off and uh i quit riding bulls in i never got on another bull but did that scare me no i was at my age i was at the age that it was time to quit riding bulls and i knew that you know if i couldn't get away from you and i was going to get caught so i quit riding bull but i broke three ribs cracked my nose and twisted my ankle and that's the extent of it of my i would say like i was telling you i hadn't had anything else broken yeah you know and i mean i i've had bulls that bucked me off run over me step on me and that was before they come out with the vest you know and still we didn't know what vests were back hannah hilton man that helped me i mean and i and i would tell you today i know it's it's a safety if i was 25 years old i would not well help them that's one thing and a lot of the bulldozers tell you they try to overcome it but that hat that helmet is heavy if your head get tilted and you're in the wrong position the bull's gonna buck you down it throws off your gravity yeah it just throws you balanced off but not a vest i would wear you know but i mean because i've gotten stepped on you know i just got lucky you know and like like larry said it was just god taking care of me you're blessed and uh but i don't i have never gone to a rodeo and crawled on a bull like larry was saying he had to get on his knees and pray and he wasn't sleeping i figured when i got to that point it's time to quit you know but i never got to that now i've gotten on some buckinghart sloane william had a bully called v61 bad bull bad i mean bucking bull and i knew i couldn't ride this bull i knew i knew there was no way for me to ride him you know it wasn't that i was scared of him i just knew i couldn't write him so a buddy of mine calvin greeley he's still he's he's the first guy that my dad would let me leave and go up north and rodeo with and i guess i was 15 16 years old then well i drew this horse into this bull and he was there and he said what are you going to do i said catch me in my belt i said i'm just going to run my hand in a rope and i said when they throw that gate over i say pull me off this bull i said because i don't want to make the first step and that's what happened so i didn't i've been on v61 but i never wrote him i i i i saw too many of my friends get hurt on him oh wow and uh and it wasn't that he was has it does anyone in here know bodacious no one knew both that okay you know bodacious well bodacious was bad but he didn't fight he'd hit you with his head and what he would do he'd come out to shoot he'd come make one jump and he'd make a skip on his front end well when he did that and you was here you will come in there so when you got there he was coming up and his head would hit you in the face like that and v-61 was sort of the same way but this was before bodacious v-61 was and uh like i told calvin i said man there's a lot of other bulls for me to crawl onto me getting hurt but that's the only bull in my life that i turn out the other ones they never got to rank i figured i could ride them and uh but back to me coming off the ranch and everything and and just like this museum i mean it's a great thing it really is and there are more people learning more about guys that did do things back then that was that was great you know i mean just like my dad like call him his name was kali williams they call him preacher william he ended up being a preacher when i got to vietnam he started he got ordained when i got to vietnam but he used to go to rodeos and he would sing a church song first and pray after every rodeo that he he was really religious and he was a real cowboy and and in just about every since because when he was at the ranch the boss man had him doing the things that slaves would do you know but it wasn't in the in the sense that i would say they made him do this everything that we did was with cattle you enjoyed doing it so you didn't know the difference you know and today the way you see me now is the way you're going to see me 24 7. i wear a hat every day i wear my boots every well i take that live back i wear shoes now i got some tennis shoes that i bought boots killed me now after 77 years you know but i i but really i don't try to think i'm any better than anybody else i don't think anything like that i just like to do the things i do i like to ride horses rope steers and drive trucks that's it you know and with that i think we'll uh we'll um we'll i guess we'll open up to some questions from the crowd if you guys have any sure so the way uh first i i just want to say before thank you both all three but thank you both so much i think i've been doing this i've been here at the woody for about six years and i this has been one of the greatest programs that i think i've been able to attend here and it's because of y'all and i think we could all sit here and listen to you all night so but uh but we want to have time for um we're going to do some book signing some book buying and the exhibit will still be open as well for you guys to explore so i'd like to have one question for larry and one for tex so if we could just do one and one um if you have we're just going to do two and please use the microphone so we can all hear thank you joshua so i'm going to yield my question to someone else i just want to say oh i'm deborah by the way but can't anybody tell our story like we can tell our story so what you're doing at the black cowboy museum what you are doing texts for sharing your story is so critical even though this exhibit closes on sunday i just encourage you i encourage everyone please to tell your story to someone this is a plug for say cam you can always tell it to us but if you've got cowboys tell it to black cowboy museum can't anyone tell our story like we can so please tell your story thank you thank you deborah [Applause] i just want to say um what what was the best part of of your life of being a cowboy what's the best part of it uh are you talking miller okay well freedom freedom i mean i can get a horse i can pretty much make him do anything i want him to do and i said make it's not to make i used to break horses years back and it was brutality and i'm sorry but that's all i knew that's why we broke horses you know but nowadays before i put my foot in a horse in a stir to crawl up on this horse you can do anything you want to do to him i know how to do it it's easy i i i get him to the point he want to do it you know and that's that's the most important thing to me i mean i just i got a horse at the house right now that i got him when he was four and i can ride this horse with no bridle no saddle just ride him around the pen and make him stop turn do anything he want to do i have never hit this horse never hit him and i don't think you have to do it you know so to answer your question is just riding my horses how about all right one more hi i just want to say thank you for telling your story i was born and raised in gonzales texas so i am a cowgirl but just to see you guys up there and then to the funny part about it was actually seeing the museum was in rosenberg about two weeks ago on facebook and i was like oh my god i gotta go there and then i seen he was in san antonio and i'm from san marcos oh my i can go see him now but the realization is that i've heard these stories some of them from my dad my brother is a cowboy i mean we trail ride so we've been there done that but i just want to say thank you and keep doing what you're doing thank you mr larry sorry i don't want to miss this opportunity uh but there's something here in the presence that uh kind of uh will uh put it into perspective of of really what the black cowboys had to go through i think one thing that we didn't talk about is that the black cowboys had to work extra hard um for example they if they wanted a rodeo they'll let them rodeo but they wouldn't stop the clock right so if you had to ride a bull for eight seconds the black cowboys had to ride it for 18 seconds and there is an example right here on this on our one year anniversary of the black cowboy museum by the way i'm a friend of larry's i helped him get the cowboy museum off the ground but on the one-year anniversary there was a small picture of tex williams riding a bull and larry blew it up big right after this picture look at this texas williams came in the one-year anniversary and looked at this picture was so big he said i see why i didn't win this this this rodeo see the guy on the left not looking if you could look again so the black cowboys were had to work harder than than all other cowboys but i didn't want this opportunity that was right here in our presence uh for y'all to miss this this is an example and that picture was at the college finals i went to college i went to college on a rodeo scholarship and that's that's at the college fine they didn't look and they didn't stop the cops they sure did but it was a privilege to be there that was in bedwood south dakota the days of 76 and the prca guys can go there and i've ridden in that arena so that's my highlight right there you know well thank you both again okay [Applause] this is this is for you guys to to come here and uh listen to what we have to say this is my highlight this is the highlight that i've been striving to have for people to accept what i'm doing thank you now go by larry's book and i thank everyone because between this guy and this guy i told him i didn't have anything to [Laughter] all say

Channel: Witte Museum

Views: 26,608

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Id: eoNV40Hk5o8

Length: 93min 36sec (5616 seconds)

Published: Fri Jul 15 2022