Bishop Barron and Jonathan Roumie: A Conversation

[Applause] well good morning everybody I'm John Barron from word on fire and we're here at the 2022 good news conference in Phoenix and it is my great pleasure to host this public conversation uh between two great interpreters of Jesus Christ Bishop Robert Barron of course is the bishop of the Diocese of Winona Rochester in Minnesota he's the founder of why are you a little he's the founder of Word on Fire Catholic Ministries and of course he's one of today's greatest evangelists and Jonathan roomie is an actor best known most especially probably amongst best known amongst this crowd perhaps for his terrific portrayal of Jesus in the TV series The Chosen season three of which is set to debut later uh next month thank both of you guys for your wonderful contributions to the conference yesterday um and I suppose it's not surprising to find the two of you uh together at a conference like this but this is really far from the first time your paths across um in fact you've developed quite a quite a friendship and a relationship over the last couple years how did all that start jail both did some time it's real he was in the clink next to me I said he's all right in it that's pretty much it you know we first met at the LA religious ed Congress you were doing this long before the chosen you were doing these sort of vignettes with as Jesus and I think I met you for the first time there and then you came also to the taping of one of our series like the sacraments I think you were there yeah and at the time I couldn't get close to them they're like no no no no no no you just you just stay over here just to like but but I no I don't think I knew much about yeah the chosen or anything and you were there and I said and someone said oh you know he's playing Jesus and I said oh you really look like him you know so that's how we met I think but then in the wake of the chosen you came out to our house in Santa Barbara yes uh so when I was in my Santa Barbara years we had this uh this lovely house out there and Jonathan came to visit and I remember we had mass in my Chapel and it was the feast of Our Lady of Sorrows and there's the long sequence remember in the Liturgy of the Sabbath Mater and so Jonathan we invited you at the mass to recite that and it was so beautifully done that then we said how about we record that so we were in the back porch I remember at my house there in the evening with Father Steve of course the CEO of world on fire and um and you read that so beautifully that's also why you know we've had Jonathan do these wonderful readings of Jared Manley Hopkins and Chester today I hope you've seen those but it came from that night and then we just hit it off and you know he's got a wonderful sense of humor and we're both fans of The Simpsons and we can he can do all the voices and I must say that to me was very surreal but out of the face of Jesus is coming the voice of Homer Simpson so imagine my chagrin when I look at you and you're doing you know Homer Simpsons and I'm like that Bishop Baron doing home so dueling homers Jesus and Bishop doing dueling Homer Simpson's Impressions why you little boy so now that we've shattered all of my versions laughs uh start off strong you know I remember talking to my brother um somebody a friend of Word on Fire had told me about the Chosen and and you know this kind of unusual show this unusual model and and this guy really loved it and I I said to my brother you know what do you what do you think of the chosen he said what are you talking about um he had no idea you know about it at that time and I think like like much of much of the audience it started slow and then it really started to explode but when you finally did catch up with it what were your what were your first impressions well I mean very favorable from the first time I I saw you know episode one and um the writing in the show I think is very fine and the way it connects Old Testament and New I was very impressed by that because that's a kind of a pet peeve of mine that when you present Jesus apart from the Old Testament you will necessarily get a distorted Jesus whether that's on the right or the left mind you but when you you present them the way the scriptures themselves present them in other words according to the writings how often in the New Testament according to the scriptures and so I love that about the scripts I thought they were very good on the Old Testament New Testament um and then we can say more about it but your portrayal of the Lord you know I've from all my life been watching films and TV shows and so on about the Lord and they're all good in their in their particular ways but I thought yours was just catching so much of the nuance and uh so that impressed me but but the writing of the show I think is very fine in in Bishop what would you say would be the particular challenges of of playing Jesus what what would you what would you say to every actor uh that they need to be concerned about I want to hear this in trying to do the role Justice and and trying to be theologically on point I mean it's a big challenge what would you tell actors please help yeah actually I've spoken a few times and you would call me and say we're preparing for the scene anymore I mean here the central challenge you know this of course is Jesus true God and true man uh how do you present both of those so you know you look at the range of of movies and shows about Jesus it's easy enough to do one or the other in a way you know Jesus truly human this human figure like a great Saint okay fair enough easy enough but not adequate to it or on the other extreme Jesus is simply this Divine figure who's kind of wearing a human suit you know it's just under the veneer of humanity and these sort of purely ethereal Jesus um those are both problematic and if I put my theologian's hat on for a second this is very old stuff in our tradition we fought for centuries about christology you know if you worry then boy we're fighting in the church today about a lot of things well welcome to the Catholic Church we've been we've been fighting about serious things for a long time in the early centuries it was christology and I can just lay it out schematically on the extreme left in the ancient Church you had nestorianism right the view that Jesus basically is a super Saint he's a human being with a really powerful relationship to God that we would aspire to that's historianism on the extreme right in the ancient Church would be monophysicism the view there's one foosis or one nature that he's all Divine and human and kind of a very you know negligible sense so those are the two extremes well then there was a third heresy that tried to split the difference it's called arianism so arianism would say he's quasi-divine and quasi-human now mind you in the ancient world that'd be a bit like the mythological framework like Achilles or Hercules semi demigod demi-human right well here's the interesting thing I think is the church said no no and no it said no to extreme left-wing historianism no to extreme right-wing monophysicism and no to the compromise of arianism what it gave us was the Council of kelseyden one of the most important statements 451 A.D one of the most important statements of our christological faith that in Jesus you have two Natures Divine and human that come together in the unity of a Divine person now mind you person here this is this is important for acting actually I didn't bring my notebook Sweden uses the word person it's not speaking in a psychological modality so we say oh what a nice person he is what a nice personality she has that's not what they mean person is an instance of a nature in metaphysics what they're saying is very interesting that there's one Divine person that instantiates simultaneously to Natures Divine and human which come together this is again Council of kelseyden come together without mixing mingling or confusion meaning he's not a demigod not semi-human not a mixture of the two but fully Divine fully human in a non-competitive sense in the unity of one person okay that's metaphysics now the trick is how do you translate that into acting where you say I I [Applause] think and luckily there is no quiz after this but here's the good news he's actually doing it foreign scorsese's movie The Last Temptation Of Christ that you might say is a very nestorian depiction Jesus is kind of a human hero human Saint go to maybe some others on the on the extreme right wing where Jesus is sort of an ethereal purely Divine kind of you know just floating Above The Human Condition the trick is doing both of those at the same time so that they're non-competitively related to each other both fully Divine and fully human and that's what I had to admire in your performance and in the writing of the show I think there's no question about the Divinity of Jesus coming through and no question that here's someone you'd like to sit down and eat and drink with right uh but how important it is in the gospels isn't it that people ate and drank with Jesus they he obviously had a winning personality he was human in the best sense but not just human not just a great saying but also fully Divine that's the trick of writing and acting I think the the role of Jesus but he does Jonathan how do you do it and how do you do it and and and you know take us back to when when you were auditioning for this role and I I know it's not your first go-around is Jesus but but when you were first thinking about um you know taking on this role this portrayal what thoughts go through your mind well I think to answer your first question um Grace is the first word that comes to mind um you know before before approaching the role before approaching each season um there's always a a substantial amount of prayer that goes into you know trying to take on as best as I can in in my own sort of feeble Humanity the the the mind or the the personage of God which is impossible so all I can do is bring the fullness of my Humanity my flawed Humanity to the role and then ask God to utilize me sort of like a mirror to reflect his grace his Mercy his love his compassion in all of the scenes throughout the scenes throughout my interactions on and off screen um so that people see what God wants them to see through me um you know there are moments where I read in the script okay this is one of the human moments of Jesus's life and ministry as that we're depicting but for me I never I never want to let go of the Divinity I never want to let Let It Go so in my mind I'm always praying that God's Divinity somehow even in this very human interaction in this whatever the scene is um that God's Divinity somehow shines through that God's Authority shines through in this character even though it's written let's say he's just having some cheese or something like that or having a conversation or you know um sweating walking up a hill or whatever it is or having a conversation about very human things between the disciples because I mean they they must have they're not recorded but the the mundane matters of of the Earthly life had to have been discussed talked about joked about um you know fretted over by the disciples and and Jesus being human fully human and fully Divine but in his full Humanity could relate to them in some in some fashion and what were those conversations like but he's still God he's still Divine let me Ed do you find that scene with the woman of the well I think is especially powerful and there you are you're you're thirsty you're tired you're asking sincerely for a drink of water or this ordinary guy and then she sees you exactly that way but then that it's an electric moment to me when you suddenly reveal you know her history you know the you know of the men that she's been married to and how she's been mistreated and so the Divinity of the Lord is coming through but not in competition with his Humanity right right see we it creatures can't relate except in a somewhat non-competitive way or a competitive way so if I want to I want to dominate your life you have to move out of the way to let me in but see when it comes to God God is not a competitor to our integrity and our freedom and so Jesus can be he's the prime instance fully Divine and fully human the humanity not compromised but that's what makes that scene so powerful if we just played it in an historian way here's a great Saint who's a real deeply compassionate fellow okay then he's Francis of Assisi you know or he's just God and there's there's nothing of human need or nothing of real thirst and so on it wouldn't have the electric quality that it has and see that's what I think would Grant people about the Lord Jesus is they were trying to figured this out and took the church many centuries to figure it out but it came from that experience of him you know and that's what I seen like that or the one with isn't Nathaniel when you um you know he's under the tree and he's going through this terrible crisis and you call him but then you say something like I I heard you under the tree yeah when in your time of trouble it's something I saw you yeah yeah you were the face of Yahweh you weren't just this itinerant uh first century Rabbi you also were the god of Israel yeah and to me those are the really electric moments but it must have been that way for the first Christians when they were trying to deal with this figure Rabbi they got Prophet they got all of that and they called them by those names but then he's also the god of Israel yeah uh both at the same time without mixing mingling or confusion there's the Council of Kelsey but it's just it's trying to honor the biblical Witness well I mean we were talking a little bit about that dichotomy which is actually unity in in the scene of um uh the semi-controversial scene if you will of Jesus rehearsing the sermon of the mount um and and you know some people have objected to that you know uh but but as you were saying that's that's a a key depiction of of what we're what we've just been talking about it's a very interesting problem I I apologize a little more theology is coming your way don't we handle it Jesus so in the in the wake of the Council of kelseyden there were enormous disputes within Christianity again to no one's great surprise and there was a controversy that happened a couple centuries later called the monopolite controversy that word means one will and the view here was that in Jesus there's one will the Divine will and his humanity is just kind of carrying out the promptings of the Divine will there's no real human will in him well Maxim is the Confessor who's one of the Great Eastern fathers said no if calcitin is right there must be two Wills in Jesus divine and human now in the unity of one person so we're not talking about like Saint Francis has his will and God has his will and they really come together in Friendship that's fine that's called being a saint but there really are two Wills in Jesus and Maximus said two minds there's a Divine mind and a human mind in Jesus now how does that look what is that how does that show up I think the chosen does that pretty well when you at times you see the human mind which means condition by time and space and culture and limited and so on and you see the Divine mind both grounded in the Unicity of the Divine person if that makes any sense um what that feels like on the inside nobody knows what that looks like the gospels give us a sense of it and I think that's the that's the challenge to translate that theology into action could that be so for instance In The Garden of Gethsemane the human will right asks for the the forthcoming crucifixion to be to sort of pass from him that's the human will in operation at that point yeah right but and the difference is if I saw me if my Fallen sinful human will is always in conflict with God's Will and is always struggling so that's one thing that the struggles going on within the unity of his person that's what makes it so remarkable and so unique sui generous right uh again what that feels like the gospels give us a picture it feels like sweating blood I guess if the gospels are right it feels like you know so could that could that almost be could our the struggle that we have as humans the the struggle between Spirit and the flesh is that perhaps more of a just more of a um sort of a a watered-down version of what Christ himself could have experienced between the the Divine will and the human will fighting each other or in competition with each other or or in concert with each other however that points well the classical tradition will say that the human and divine Minds human and divine Wills are in concert in Jesus that they they come together now there is that moment there is Gethsemane where there is in other moments that weren't as significant that weren't if if at the end of the day we clearly see that there's the the concert of the two it's not as though he splits apart right so they're they're without mixing mingling or confusion but in the unity of the Divine person you know and again that to your original question that's the challenge for an actor playing Jesus is to try to communicate that um notoriously difficult it you know I'm just wondering when you're preparing for the role um what role does your Catholicism play in in your interpretation and I'm also curious about how much um how much study of of scripture goes into your preparation so um fortunately you're looking at my scripture study right here um you know I I I went to public school I I went to art college so I I didn't have any theological training or anything like that um I've read a lot I when I can access spiritual advisors from you know Catholic advisors priests friends of mine my own spiritual director Bishop Baron other other folks um especially as I prepare as he had mentioned for certain scenes where I'm I'm not quite sure what's sort of underneath what's underlying what's girding the scene and what's girding the moment in the story of the scriptures that we are trying to portray um I will reach out and I will I will try to get a better sense of it from a theological perspective because I don't have that training obviously myself um I mean for me my faith is is everything it's my identity and it's grown to become more of my identity than I had ever anticipated or planned or thought it would um you know it was a couple of years before even before the pandemic that I had my own sort of deeper conversion and uh you know I was you know at the the the precipice of of penury to an extent and uh I I you know I didn't know where I didn't know how I was going to continue forward I was as an actor I was juggling six or seven different side hustles um I hadn't worked in a few weeks I I've done a lot of work doing voice over which like you know recording voices for video games or commercials and things like that but I wasn't working consistently and I found myself at the point where um and some of you have heard me tell this story but for those who haven't so I I was at a point in my life where I had exhausted all my financial resources I hadn't I couldn't get arrested to for a catering job I was and that was one of like I said six or seven different jobs I was kind of juggling to try to make ends meet and it was a Saturday morning in May and I woke up and I I was like a hundred dollars overdraft I had 20 bucks in my pocket uh I had enough food for the rest of the day that was it I didn't know how I was going to pay rent the following week or two weeks in addition to all the other bills that I had coming due and so it it brought me to this you know existential crisis and and I and I I got on my knees and there was my crucifix and I was I just started pouring out my heart to God and saying look I for years I've been asking that if there's something else that I should be doing please show me what it is because this is extremely difficult and I I wasn't a young man you know I was I wasn't in my 20s I wasn't just I didn't just land in Los Angeles that year fresh out of college I'd been working 20 years already and uh you know inconsistently and I said I said to God so I've never you've never given me any other indication that I should be doing something else and now look at where I am but I trust you and so I'm going to surrender everything I have my life my will how I'm going to eat I'm going to give it all to you and I'm not going to worry about it anymore you said your burden is easy and your yoke is light here's mine and I left that morning with the 20 bucks I had in my pocket I probably spent it on a really good breakfast and and for the first time I I actually felt like well I don't know what's gonna happen but not my problem I'll wait and I and I honestly I I honestly left it on the floor because I had no choice because if I had been left to my own designs to continue trying to manage and control my career and do everything I was supposed to do the Lord helps those who helped themselves that's actually not in the Bible it's not in the Bible and I'm like where is that cave where is it and so I got back that afternoon to my apartment and just you know wondering what's going to happen next and really curious to see how God might show up if he would show up I knew he would show him and I opened my mailbox and there were four checks in the mail and I said oh no no these aren't real I was expecting I knew there was going to be 50 bucks coming from I so one of the things that John alluded to I I was I produced and performed in a passion play with Maria Vargo from GK Chesterton entertainment who's outside so go get the DVD because you can see one of the passion plays that we staged called the last days so we had performed that in in um the church I was going to uh and I knew I had I had like a 50 reimbursement check from some makeup or something that I bought so I knew there was that that was coming my way so I was like there's the check at least there's 50 bucks but then there's these three other checks that I had no idea where they were from or where what they were for and one of them as an actor when you when you work as an actor on a show on a TV show typically um years later you can still make a couple of bucks here and there from what they call residuals so every time they show the uh the the program somewhere anywhere in the world an actor makes a little bit of money it's kind of how he supports himself as a career because of the inconsistency of the lifestyle and so one of those checks I think was a company that had paid out residuals that hadn't paid out residuals in like four years and so I I set up a little my phone on my bed and I just documented the moment because I I could not believe that after I had just wept and and poured out my heart to God saying you got to do something because I got no more options that here I was with four checks and I opened each one of the checks and every check was bigger than the one before it and at the end of the day I had like eleven hundred dollars beautiful story sometimes actors need a moment we're comfortable with silence but not on a stage um and so at that point I realized that that was what God was calling me to do is to completely surrender every aspect of my life especially my career because I hadn't done that I included him in other areas of my life but not my career I'm like no no I got this guy I'm in Hollywood I know what's going on he's like yeah okay let me know how that goes eight years in that's where I was and uh three months later Dallas Jenkins called me for uh to do four episodes of a series about Jesus and didn't know where it was going to go it was crowdfunded and and I had done three short films with him for his Church's Good Friday service um in the Midwest previous four years so when he called and said you want to put the sandals back on I said absolutely and here we are four years later so foreign [Applause] more heady and intense than I expected just a half an hour into it let's let's get Back Down to Earth tell me about the accent you use in in the chosen where that comes from and and how you prepared for that so my uh my father's from Egypt and um I have a lot of Middle Eastern family and I have an aunt his sister-in-law is from Palestine and so I grew up with hearing Arabic and the Middle Eastern accent and variations of the dialect and so when I six months before I met Dallas Jenkins for his first short film I did this traveling I played Jesus in this one-woman show funny enough starring Maria Vargo for St Luke Productions about Saint faustina and they needed somebody to to play Jesus for the these video segments it was a multimedia a traveling show and so when I got cast to play Jesus for that uh I you know I thought to myself well I I can't see Jesus having an American accent that would just I wouldn't buy it for a second British accent sounds lovely it's been done it's still not really representative of you know um what I feel I would want to see so I decided to take my my father's accent and my aunt's accent because my father's accent is very light my my aunt's accent is a bit thicker and I just kind of mesh the two of them and uh that's kind of how that happened that happened yeah and you know thinking ahead of you guys have completed two seasons you've got several more to go yeah we just finished our third you just finished the third is about two that's about to debut um you know people were curious uh when I was they knew I was going to talk to you about what what scenes you're you've yet to play that you're most looking forward to or that you're most fearful of oh uh that's a great question but I never really know what we're going to shoot ahead of time uh up until we get the scripts there's occasions where I generally know what's what we're going to cover so for instance it's no secret um the plan is to do seven seasons of the show season six will focus on the crucifixion season seven we'll focus on the resurrection where it goes after that I don't know but leading up to that I can only speculate some of the scenes that we'll get to do all of it I mean Dallas's and his writer's main goal and objective in writing a TV series because remember it's it's a TV series it's not gospel it's not the scripture it's using gospels and scriptures but in some of the criticisms I've read people freak out uh because they don't see a scene depicted exactly as it's written in scripture well most of the scenes in scripture you know it could be a paragraph or two that's that's not it's not really conducive to to telling a story uh in Long in long-form media like television so you have to kind of fill it out a bit you have to give you have to have many characters um you give them stories you give them arcs and you try to weave them in that is honoring the gospel reflective of the gospel and God willing pointing more people to the gospels to read for themselves who Jesus was what he did what he said and how it impacted them and and praise be to God it's been doing that it's been doing that in Spades all over the world that's that's the goal but first and foremost people have to remember it it is entertainment first and if we're not entertaining people nobody's going to watch it and then nobody's going to want to know what happens more especially if they've never read the Bible and many people we've got we actually got and a letter from somebody from the Church of Satan honest to God and I'm paraphrasing but he basically said I don't necessarily believe all this stuff but I really love the story you never know you never know what's going to come from that just an observation about biblical literature both Old Testament and New is very laconic it's very understated typically the biblical authors in a few little death Strokes will sketch a character uh you don't get a hundred pages of psychological elaboration the way you get like in a great you know contemporary novelist but what's happened as a result of that is the whole midrashic tradition emerged first in Judaism which is a sort of narrative and imaginative elaboration of the biblical text so the Bible will say Abraham goes up the mountain with Isaac well I mean what's going on at that moment in the mind and heart of Abraham well the midrashic tradition loves to elaborate that and I would say some of the elements within the chosen are kind of like that the the Bible sketches it very and it's part of the beauty of biblical narrative and it's done in this almost modernist way that's very understated but then artists have always loved think of the way painters do it dramatas have done it the midrashic tradition's done it is they've imaginatively elaborated upon the biblical text so I would put the Chosen and its writers kind of in that tradition I don't think it violates in any way the Integrity of the Bible or you know runs counter to it I think as Catholics we can just point to Ignatius I mean it's like the ignatian tradition like imagine what it would be like to be in this scene with Jesus and the disciples and and we do and we write it on paper and then we go film it you know but then people that aren't I think people that aren't especially uh susceptible or or um you know on board with the Catholic the the Myriad of Catholic Traditions won't make that connection they won't understand what do you mean the ignatian you know they're just like literalists strict biblical literalists I think end up being where we get the criticism and again you know mind you it's not like most criticisms it's it's it's a vocal minority it's like two percent of the comments and the feedback we get are you know these these raging uh how do I say this politely he's raging dissenters that uh that feel that we're doing uh we're we're rewriting the gospel we're we're re you know and then we're going to hell because of that and all this other stuff and yeah one of the best examples I think the way Matthew is portrayed right that everyone finds that character so intriguing [Applause] Little Death Strokes will tell you a few things about Matthew or Levi but very imaginatively to see him as someone kind of on the autism spectrum and someone with some obsessive compulsive qualities and but it makes the character very Vivid as we watch the show I'm always eager what's Matthew doing and what's what's he gonna do but you know fair enough it's a psychological spiritual elaboration from it which I think brings a lot of power to and it's been I think there have been a lot of people who are on the autism spectrum that relate to Matthew in a way that like I do that same thing and so they they see themselves and and the question I think that that was put forth when when and Dallas himself has talked about being on the Spectrum to an extent as well himself um you know what must it take for a young man you know assuming it was a fairly young man at the time to comfortably work for the occupation um against his own people and and like what what kind of a personality would be so attentive to detail not really you know flummoxed by any kind of uh you know pressure from from his own culture to to work for the Roman occupation like it would take a certain certain personality that might and this this could be this could be the kind of personality that is comfortable in that situation that reminds me of the scene that I laughed out loud in is La quintus the bald headed guy the Roman guy and he's talking to you right talking to Jesus and he gives you some command and you said well I'd be okay with that but I don't know how my father's gonna react it just I think deliciously goes I don't know what that means but let's end on a high note it is you know it's a very contemporary sort of you know dial bantering dialogue but it made me laugh out loud so I'm like what would it have been like for a Roman authority to interview the Lord Jesus Christ I mean it would have been a strange experience and I don't know what that means I have no frame of reference for that but let's leave it on a high note well you brought up the apostles and and you know it's important to remember you're not on the screen all the time you know there is a the apostles the other followers of Jesus have you know very outsized uh time on on screen and uh the apostles the other followers of Jesus these are very human very faith-filled people they're crucial players as as Witnesses foils Messengers and really representatives of of all of us I'm wondering whether either of you can talk a little bit about you know the importance of these figures and what what they mean to and bring to the story of Jesus remember in the first episode you don't show up to the very end that's right and I remember some told the children are so great and this guy plays Jesus he's really something I'm like where is he so when I first got the script so the first short film I did to briefly interject with Dallas was a 25 minute film about the in the chosen now the chosen style the origin of the two thieves on the crucifixion alongside Jesus and uh and so I got the role I first saw audition for one of the Thebes and he had this amazing character Arc and then I got called in a second time and I'm like I didn't get the first one and they said we want you to read for Jesus and I said okay I played Jesus once before at that point I'm like I love me some Jesus let me just see oh he's got like five lines so four years later dad was like you want to do this I'm like sure he sends me the first episode I'm like oh come on he's got like three lines in the second episode yeah wait for episode three and then it's Jesus and the children so sorry it was quite ironic no but I thought that was it was good I think of Saint Paul saying trying to describe Jesus God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself so the God for us God reconciling us to himself and so that that we're involved and as you say correctly I think all those figures represent us how do we uh interpret Jesus how do we take him in what does he mean for us and our backstories matter so when people finally meet the Lord Jesus it's their coming out of their very rich complex struggling you know history so I think that was it was good the way they set it up it's a bit like you know Tolkien with the Lord of the Rings beginning with a hundred pages of Bilbo baggins's birthday party remember and people say there's this rollicking adventure story and hey when is it going to get started you know this but what Tolkien was doing was setting up the world that he wanted you to inhabit so in a similar way I thought it was setting up oh yeah we want to see how these people like Nicodemus who I find very moving that actor you know that has been around for a long time yeah what an expressive face and I mean obviously a very skilled actor but you you sense okay this guy's got quite a story and then to the Arc of Nicodemus you know in the course of the gospels so I think that's a very rich part of the chosen it doesn't just hyper stress the spotlight always on Jesus but do you remember the scene by the way this one is I say to my own condemnation this the wonderful one again you're only at the very end the whole not that it's a sense a theme Here I sense the theme Here do you remember it's it's the best stuff where you're not in it yeah but uh that's not you little well you little the um the disciples are fighting in the whole episode remember that they're bickering and arguing and who's most important and what about this and they're fighting and that and then at the very end Jesus having spent the entire episode healing hundreds of people exhausted comes staggering Across The Scene goes into his tent and his mother cares for it right but you barely say a word I think but when I watch that here I am I'm a successor of the Apostles right and I thought there we are you know two thousand years later we're still spending a lot of time you know but you live like a little fighting with each other while the Lord Jesus is doing his work you know so that to me was a very powerful episode actually yeah that was um for me I think I just say good night that's my only lion the whole episode yeah and uh yeah it says everything and when you you had mentioned that to me that that note like that that's the state of the church I said you know what yeah I guess it is yeah you know Bishop after hearing one of your sermons or one of your talks people are always left with all of these Myriad references you've made to books and poems and movies and art and I bet you're like me many of you head to Amazon or the library after hearing you know hearing from you it happened again last night just to try to get caught up on on everything so now it's I'll we'll make this list time right now will it will let you have a free form Riff on this I'm interested in what other portrayals of Christ on screen have moved you over the years and you know I remember we grew up watching King of Kings with Jeffrey Hunter we thought it was great we were six um I you know I I wonder if that's even in your top 25 at this point but what are some of your favorite or most interesting portrayals I still like zeffirellis from the 70s Jesus right oh that's my favorite no you know Robert Powell who's this hyper British guy they always say the British play biblical figures and Nazis they always have it's a British accent you know um but I I think this is a very well crafted and very well done and again the cream of the crop of the English acting World Olivier in that and you had Ralph Richardson in it and and even Ernest Borgnine it was actually very fine I think on that James farentino remember those figures from that era but I think that was very well crafted now Powell to me had too much of the kind of ethereal yeah Jesus about him you wouldn't really think I want to sit down and have a drink with with this guy yeah um nevertheless I I thought there was a lot of virtue to it the um the quality of that I think it's almost like it presents Tableau it takes a a scene to the life of Jesus and it ends up like a beautiful artistic depiction of it think of the the enunciation from that or the visitation I think was really well done um so I I do like zepharelli's Jesus of Nazareth that had a huge impact on me that as a kid seeing that it's so much so that uh as a as an 11 year old after having seen the crucifixion scene as most 11 year olds will do I went out into my backyard I found a couple of Timbers I hammered them together I hammered the nails where the hands go and where the feet go then I proceeded to do my own way of the Cross around my backyard how my neighbors didn't call the cops or somebody like yeah this is carrying around at first and to the point where I literally would just process through the garage and plant the cross next to the garage a little cinder block I would step on and just slide my hands and just reenact the crucifixion as an 11 year old so I guess God kind of had it in his mind the whole time that I would end up doing this uh couldn't quite get away from Destiny foreign [Applause] of media that's the power of the the the image and when you have an image that I think I think with Jesus of Nazareth I really feel that zepharelli zepharelli in that production was inspired by the Holy Spirit I think it had such power to reach in and when you go you just go to some of the religious bookshops and they have like portraits of Jesus and it's Robert Powell's face I'm like whoa you know and just even seeing images of my own face as Jesus to me is is kind of it's it's shocking uh and and bizarre and and I I don't ever know I don't know how anybody ever reconciles that especially playing Jesus it's just the other thing I was thinking about is there are the explicit movies about Jesus but all the Christ figure movies there's been a bevy of them uh the Shawshank Redemption is one of the great Christ figure movies in contemporary Cinema um start deconstructing that story and it's it's the gospel story right of this innocent man who comes into this dire situation this prison opens up a whole new way of seeing and imagining goes through a dying and Rising experience the end of the movie All In White and then you know red comes to meet him by the seashore so I mean uh he's a Christ figure throughout that movie The Christ Image I mean still haunts our artists um you know all my lifetime look at the Cuckoo's Nest there's another one one full of Cougar's Nest is a deeply Christ figure of movie so I love that how the image of Jesus still haunts our artists for sure especially our filmmakers are either of you surprised by the success of the chosen or or should we be surprised by the successful [Laughter] oh okay uh you know I I think it's something that uh as an actor you always hope will happen but you're never guaranteed you know and especially with how this project came to fruition and the the length of time I mean this is four years ago and we only released season two last year so we've uh we we've kind of had a lot to go through a lot of growing pains a lot of challenges being a self-funded um project you know TV series so it's it's been uh as we kind of see this incremental success it's it's uh it's supremely humbling and um and encouraging and and knowing that it's reaching people Beyond just mere entertainment um it's affecting people on a deep deep level spiritual level psychological level um I met a young lady last year who she was she was 20 at the time so the year prior she was set to take her own life she had written out a suicide note and was going to hang herself in her parents house and had it all planned out and one of her friends got a hold of her and just said hold on a sec just come over just let's we'll just watch some TV just just don't do anything so she she went over her friend's house and she put on the first episode of The Chosen and at the end of the first episode where Jesus has this connection with Mary Magdalene and he calls her by name and he says you are mine she just the girl just wept and in that moment she decided not to kill herself and she felt that God was giving her a reason giving her a reminder that she was loved she was valued she was cared for that her life meant something and so she didn't kill herself and then a year later we're talking about it we're all weeping and then this past summer I kind of got an update and she's now working with underprivileged young women herself trying to inspire them to follow Christ thank you so on one hand I hope I hope it goes further than I ever imagined because I think that will mean that as a society we need this right now we need more of God and the culture we need people to know that they are loved as as different as we all are that God still loves them we are all children of God and that everybody has a place in God's family and how can we reach out to those who are hurting and those who are are desperate those who are in pain and and if if a TV show is able to kind of help encourage people and and make them feel closer to Jesus and and more loved by God than you know that's that's my ministry right there [Applause] foreign let's talk a little bit about the role of the Arts in general in evangelization um you you talked about how how important the video or visual media medium is um I'm wondering what you Bishop are hearing about the chosen in conversation it's got to be part of the conversation now that you're hearing a lot more about but in general the role of the Arts in evangelization and you talked about that at some link last night but yeah I mean as I say that's That's essential to the Catholic tradition that we use the visual and you know the gift of something like Cinema there's a picture like a Caravaggio is of enormous power but gosh you put Caravaggio in motion and you put Caravaggio with speech and you put Caravaggio with all the dramatic possibilities of a film that's why they're so rich that's why a film or a TV production will stay in our minds and so it is yes a vehicle for evangelization you know I've been harping for years now on the rise of the nuns you know the the disaffiliation from the church our young people all that's true and it's a it's a summons to all of us to evangelize every way we can but see I'm sensitive to the way the holy spirit moves and the Holy Spirit raises up you know institutions and organizations and individuals and raises up something like the chosen I think as a vehicle for evangelizing especially young people so just be mindful of the holy spirit it's always operative always you know the signs of Life all over and I think the chosen is definitely one of those praise God [Applause] uh Jonathan playing Jesus has a a certain gravitas about it well I mean total gravity toss um when you get down to it but there's kind of been I'm sure a lot of lighter moments along the way uh a lot of jokes I think my brother made two jokes just last night and and so I'm wondering if there's any stories or lighter moments you can talk about it and and what do people say to you when when you're stopped on the street um two questions what's it like to play Jesus have you met Jim cavieza from Passion of the Christ the answer to the second one is no I have not not yet maybe it'll happen who knows um what's it like to play Jesus uh yeah it's that's the most that's the question I get the most and uh it's it's been profound it's it's uh I can't say the word humbled enough I can't I just there's no other word that encapsulates what that feels like um because of what how God is using the project not not because of what I'm doing or what my skill set is but because of how God is using the project and me through this project to to bring knowledge and familiarity of his son to the World At Large um lighter moments yeah you know oh tell them the pope and Dallas Jenkins so so uh last summer uh I I got to uh to have an audience with Pope Francis and so I invited yeah it was pretty dope actually and so I invited Dallas Jenkins to be a part of this moment um because if I think if if it hadn't been for the chosen I would never have gotten this opportunity so I felt it only only rights would vitamins so we get we're in the the Prima field which is like the front row of the audiences like the Wednesday morning audience and so Pope comes up to me and shakes hand and I had prepared a little thing in Spanish that I said to him in Spanish I give him a little picture that I had drawn as a former illustrator and uh and he was very gracious and then I asked him I told him I would pray for him and I asked him to pray for me because I was playing Jesus in this TV show that was being seen all around the world and everything that comes with that I could use the prayer and uh and then so and then Dallas goes into his his turn to shake hands and and uh and the Pope says to Dallas he's like he's Jesus no he said you are Jesus say yeah I said yeah and then he turns to Dallas and he says you are Judas and Dallas is like no no no no no no no no no no no so so because it's just like uh I don't know if at the I'm gonna I'm gonna defer that the pope wasn't actually thinking that through and he said that to an Evangelical uh or maybe he was I don't know no either way uh both Dallas thought it was the funniest thing he's like I like that guy I really like that guy my favorite is right it was on film we could see that and uh the pope you Jesus you Judas and in the background you're dissolving in laughter and Dallas changes going no no no no I'm I'm the producer yeah for me actually this this summer I I actually had a chance to to meet him again in a smaller sort of uh circle of people of these artists um this Summit called the Vitae Summit I was invited along with a number of other influential artists to discuss the possibilities of how to bring the gospel into the culture uh in a greater way using you know the gifts and talents of the artists at large and and so um the Highlight for me was was this summer meeting the pope because as he's coming in there Wheeling him into this room in one of the Vatican Museum side rooms that we were working in and uh he was with his one of his assistants and they're willing him and he looks at me he's like Jesus only on TV and then at the very end I I said I have to try to get a selfie with the Pope I wouldn't I would never forgive myself so I asked for a picture and uh and he says the pope meets Jesus the first time I don't think it is foreign but again only on TV only on TV so that was my story well terrific we're gonna leave it on a laugh um I just wanted to thank both of these guys uh for for this conversation and before we leave we're going to show um what I hope will be a little bit of a treat um it'll be it's the trailer for season three of the chosen [Applause] as we said is going to be premiering uh later in November but in before we do that please a round of applause for Jonathan roomie and Bishop Aaron thank you everybody thank you and let's let's take a look this might just doesn't know this may be for the first two episodes so we're showing the first two episodes of season three November 18th will be in cinemas through fathom events so uh thechosontickets.com if you want to get your tickets but I'm not sure if this is the full season trailer or it might just be the first two episodes it'll say on the trailer so foreign [Music] there will come a time when this will become far more difficult [Music] persecution is never Present part of your ministry are you ready to do hard things [Music] we will see [Music] follow me do not be anxious about your life whatever you wish that others would do to you do also to them for this is the law and the prophets you have heard that it was said You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy but I say to you love your enemies pray for those who persecute you prison nothing now that he's healed the Lord bless you and keep you the Lord make his face shine upon you be graciously the Lord turned his face to you give you peace I have chosen youth well there will come a time you will follow in my footsteps and you will know what it actually means give up your life foreign

Channel: Bishop Robert Barron

Views: 863,880

Keywords: bishop barron, bishop robert barron, word on fire, word on fire catholic ministries, bishop barron's word on fire, good news conference, corporate travel, good news conference 2022, good news, catholic speaker, catholic talk, catholic conference, talk on christian morals, catholic, beauty in the arts, jonathan roumie, jonathan roumie jesus, jonathan roumie the chosen, jonathan roumie and bishop barron, jesus the chosen, jonathan roumie catholic, jonathan roumie interview

Id: VyT3tiPxlPE

Length: 61min 7sec (3667 seconds)

Published: Tue Mar 07 2023