Bikies & Drug Deals: The Underworld's Dangerous Connection - Joe Kwon

now what type of crimes were you committing um I I'm not going to I'm not going to caution you here or what type of crimes was your friend of a friend committee when I joined a gang it was more like deliveries of small amounts of drugs here and there what that the Asian crime gangs yes I joined the gang when I was in your s the reason why I got the attention of the gang members was because um I was a junior black belt from a very young age oh and what what ta right we talking bikes the bik I I won't mention the name yeah no don't mention the name they might grab you again yeah got a knock on the door and I'm thinking that is room service so I walk up to the door and you know literally before could open and these guys come in wearing ball clovers and masks with machine guns and they're all come running in and I'm just there going that this isn't really my breakfast that I ordered cash was right next to me I I thrown the cash everywhere and be line for the door I get a machine gun to the side of the head there's cash all around me and then I hear the words you're under arrest this is the police you know I was talking to all the career criminals and they were all talking about you know you got to expected to a lot more jail if you want to go down this path or end up in a coffin you got sentenced to 13 13 years 13 years for director in criminal Enterprise the I catch Killers podcast was a fresh start for me as I left pleasing behind and started a new life over the years we've laughed together cried and shared some powerful moments welcome to I catch Killers welcome to another episode of icatch killers we love stories of Redemption on I catch killers and today's guest fits nicely into that area see today's guest was a prisoner sent to prison for 13 years as a 21y old things happened in prison that changed his outlook on life that included sharing a cell with a billionaire accountant today's guest is Joe Quan his story is fascinating and today he's going to tell us all about it Joe welcome to I catch Killers mate appreciate you having me in grateful to be here well it's uh yeah it's I know you're a busy man and uh looking at all the stuff you've been up to I'm surprised we got you in here I've been trying to get you in here for a while uh your name keeps popping up in the circles I I mix that you're doing some uh good work right um feels like a lot of the people that have come out the justice system who are doing a lot of positive things in community kind of all know each other you know um you had Jeffrey Morgan on the show before you he was a mentor when I came out of prison as well and I seen him on the show you know one of our guys from confit Andrew he's been on your show so I'm well aware of what you're you're doing with your with your podcast and is some great stuff yeah you were given some advice I'll jump straight into when you in prison by a lot of uh career criminals and the general advice you were given that uh if you want to be part of this game expect to come back to job more often yeah um look you know I I got locked up when I was 21 yeah um and that was the only kind of life that I knew um at that time and you know when I first got locked up you know being a young adolescent you know that was my mindset you know let's become a career criminal because I don't know anything else you know expelled or dropped out of high school in year 10 no educational background no family support you know what else am I going to do you know what what what else do I know how to do it's pretty Stark advice but isn't it but it's a reality you know if you if you if you're going to choose that life of crime you are going to be spending uh the payback is you're going to spend some time inside yeah pretty much you know um a lot of them did you know these guys I looked up to them as like you know if you want to call it the d7s of the criminal world right um you know they're doing some pretty crazy things like hearing this stories you know when you go to jail you hear a lot of people's stories and what the kind of Crim they did and how they operated and I was dumbfound and going wow like that's next level stuff and when I asked all of them like you know like have you guys done jail anywhere else they were like literally in their hands going Yep this place this place this place I'm like well if you guys are that good why do you guys keep on getting locked up and they're telling me they go there is no guarantee in this game you know if you want to be a part of this game in the criminal world you it's stupid if you're not if you don't expect to get caught caught sometime if you don't have those expectations you're living in denial you know mo most definitely so was that hearing that com like hearing the commentary come or or being perceptive enough to understand what they're talking about was that a wakeup call for you definitely cuz like you know I was looking at a long stretch um given the my charges yeah and I was like look I don't I don't want to do more time you know when I get out I don't want to do more time I just Jail's not a good place you know it's it's not a nice place so I was I was just thinking well what the hell do I do do I keep on coming back to jail and then I keep on hearing of all these people who are getting murdered and getting knocked did you do any time in uh Youth detention or so that was your your first first experience in C I was very lucky that I didn't go to um any of the you detention centers um but I guess they all caught up to me um on this on this one you know F first sentence um first ever charge you know 13 years it's a it's a big sentence we we talk talk about that but looking at you today and seeing what you're achieving today you're such a positive positive person and it's hard to reconcile who you were back in back in those those days so what was it what's how did you find your way in the crime um look you know so if you really want to take it back to the beginning you know my my mother I grew up on the single parent household yeah um my mother came here as an international student she was a opera singer she got um a scholarship to the senior conservator where where did she originate from from South Korea yeah yeah so she came here with very little englishing and she's she's a bloody talented individual um and she was so hungry to chase her passion um but you know given that because she was on a student visa she couldn't access any public housing or government support so while studying fulltime she was working four different jobs trying to put food on the table to pay rent pay for her tuitions and all that kind of stuff um and you know there wasn't much time for me to spend with my mother so you know I'm always out and about and I was single only child no no siblings I had no kind of male guidance in my life and you know I was always out on the streets and the people that I looked up to at that time and the only place my mom could afford were kind of like the rougher areas yeah you know and the people that I looked up to were all kind of you know getting up to no good and you know these guys all had nice cars and they had the pretty girls around them and the and the mobile phones and the jewelry and all that kind of stuff and that kind of looked pretty cool to me how how old were you at that stage I was primary school year one okay all right very young so very young and and you're thinking there's success yeah that's the image of a successful successful person yeah it's funny isn't it the environment you grow up from a kid you do look up to people and you're not judging people you're just looking up to them who looks like they've got got all this stuff together and that you just happen to be looking at the crooks and thinking the way they're all they just seemed like cool dudes you know I didn't know what else to expect you know but they were the people that were around me and they were really good to me and they were nice to me so like they're the ones that I looked up to I never saw the crime factor of things I just thought I just saw it as man these guys are like my brothers they're really looking after me I felt a sense of belonging with them yeah did you uh think that at that age if you had a role model or someone to keep you in line and if it were a single mom working you understand how how hard that is with with a child do you think if you had someone there keeping you on the straight narrow you might have gone down a different path initially definitely you know if someone really kind of you know if someone if I looked up to someone that was really into sports and just really influenced me down that path you know I could have gone a complete different way you know but that wasn't around at the time for me yeah so so it was wasn't an option so it it it could have changed the projectory of your life if you had that you mentioned Sport and that come that's a big thing in the training and all that I just just a sort of sideways chat I always think like team sports good for kids too you get uh you kids there learning to be part of a team working together is always a good uh good way kids to work out how to survive in society yeah definitely and you know in sports you know kids always look up to the older boys or the old girls who are playing sports and they just admire them how good they are and you want to become like them it's very simp okay now what type of crimes were you committing um I I'm not going to I'm not going to caution you here or what type of crimes was your friend of a friend committing um look you go get into a lot of stuff um it's started off with your little you know Petty thieving um and then you know was stealing fireworks and selling off fireworks stealing like in primary school year one I was I was selling porn mags right you know cuz there was one time when I actually came came across a box of porner mags and I took it to my primary school and I started selling it you know one page $1 two double page double spread page $2 and I realized this was quite lucrative um and then I started s stealing it from like the convenience stores and the and the magazine Stores um you know little little harmless things like that um then you know it started getting into bit more like the kind of breaking into cars and you know and then when I joined the gang it was more like deliveries of small amounts of drugs here and there um extortion on on restaurants and shops and yeah what that the Asian crime gangs yes okay and and what were they structured like you're coming in as the uh the kid and you're doing the runaround yeah you go through the whole initiation it was it was one of the Triads uh I'm not Chinese but there was a time when you know they they need a lot of foot soldiers and that's when kids like myself come come into play doing all the dirty work and what type of initiations are we talking about um I guess you know you've got other gang members that we have to go and kind of prove ourselves to yeah I'll just leave it at that okay well look I I'll talk in a general sense there was some pretty Savage fights there with weapons and and different things that was that was the environment yeah pretty much what what area um so I grew up in Cy so Southwest kind of Southwest or in the west um but we moved around a lot so I was actually in Hornsby in Eastwood airing Starfield um went to bankstown and moved around a lot yeah okay well I I was a police officer at Hornsby I'm just trying to do the numbers there finally caught you now at last and and I I grew up around eing too so I I know I know the area um okay so committing those crimes I'm just trying to get into the mindset of you as a child committing those crimes did you know what you were doing was wrong did you have any sort of remorse about stealing or or when it got a little bit further and fighting and yeah you definitely know it's wrong then you wouldn't be running you know when when the incident happens you wouldn't be running if you if you didn't know that you're breaking the law but you're so conditioned to that point that you're part of this culture that wrong becomes right you know I don't know if if that makes sense but that's the kind of feeling that I had you know it's like you know societal Norms yes it's wrong but within our culture it's just the way it is yeah did you but from a personal point of view did you think I I wish I was doing something else or that didn't even I'm not a violent person naturally but you know um sometimes you get put into those situations where you have to act out and you never sat right with me uh that's why I never went down a kind of violent career path you know as a criminal I never went down that path cuz that wasn't me uh I never had it inside of me um you know being growing up under a single mother as well um you know she's always always taught me to protect women and you know because I respected my mom so much you know any violence towards women was like a big nogo for for myself um even like you know people who were much weaker than us you know um that was um considered a nogo as well but you know you do get put into situations where you know it's part of your gang to go and fight other gang gang members and stuff like that um you know I I guess that's just part of being you know when you're young you you kind of got raging with testosterone yeah and when you're when you're put in that kind of negative environment it just happens naturally yeah were you still at school when you were in The Gangs uh at the beginning yes um I joined a gang when I was in your seven uh I got expelled in your 10 right okay and then so how did you make a living did you get any work or were you just living off your small small amounts like I was doing deliveries here and there the the drug deliveries drug deliveries um we were doing we used to call it contracts which means you go you go and like kind of bash people and you know um K up people stuff like that um so there were little contracts here and there you do um little jobs for the older boys to just go Smash Up shop fronts so just breaking it down so people understand so you're what um 14 15 I suppose at that and uh some higher up member of the gang says okay that crew over there has ripped us off the drugs you got to go get the drugs off off them and yeah pretty much you know um we're just we're just little foot soldiers yeah you I grew up as a foot soldier only because um the reason why I got the attention of the gang members was because um I was a junior black belt from a very young age oh and what what's tawo yeah and you know like I said I grew up under a single mother and having no Father Figure um so parents got divorced came here I didn't even know they got divorced mom so I was born here mom went back to Australia and she came back here by myself um by herself with me yeah and she told me we were on holidays and then later I'm like where's Dad and she goes you're not going to be seeing him again and then you know that really kind of cuts you up and I was one little kind of angry boy how old were you at that stage um before before primary school okay that's a hard to swallow at that age yeah so um you know I'm always asking I want to see Dad I want to see Dad and she goes you're probably not going to see him again um just suck it up and you know I guess that was a bit of a kind of hole inside my heart that I needed to unleash and you given that I had a junior Blackwell Tu one yeah one though um you know I kind of lushed out you know um did a few round ass kicks back in the days in school okay so that's always going to get you get you an early exit from from school when did it get to the level uh what sort of crimes were you committing cuz you didn't go to jail to 21 so what type of crimes were you committing between 15 to 21 was it escalating and your involvement getting heavier yeah pretty much it started off very small like I said little deliveries here and there you know um you know breaking shot F little threats here and there um then just got bigger and bigger um because I knew the the larger the amount of drugs you were carrying for him the more money you were making you know like at the age of like 13 you know I was making a couple thousand dollars just for like one drop and what were you doing with the money at that age I literally we're just going out and buying food and clothes and just spending it on you know when obviously we can't spend on alcohol but we're spending on alcohol having little house part running like having House parties and stuff like that you know um just s stupid things no one actually taught us like how to spend money you know Easy Come Easy Go from such a young age so it it does give you a distorted view on money too doesn't it here's $1,000 that uh yeah easy earning and then you're shouting all the boys you know we're going for dinners and you know did you ever come unstuck with police in in that early stage I've been arrested a few times as a juvenile yeah I've been arrested a few times but never really formally charged okay and what you got a caution or whatever caution been locked up in the fish tank at the police station had to get Mom to come and pick me up and you know things like that and and when you got locked up did that uh that wake up call for you at all or not really it's just so this is easy yeah yeah okay so you're you're 18 19 you you're delivering more drugs are you working at all have you got any regular employment or is it no no I actually did uh when I was 18 I did work at UH a bar so I had got my RSA and I was working at a bar realized I hate this job um and and you know there was a comparison I'm making more money doing this why should I be working you know where are you going to make that make that amount of money at that age that's uh that's part of the attraction isn't it to to Crime I see people get dragged into that in that it's so easy to get the money in crime when you when you look back a little bit wiser you realize you probably if you put as much effort into your crime as you did into uh working you would have made the same amount of money yeah but uh okay you came you came unstuck what what happened there when you got arrested yeah so you know I was so I got into the whole like um party scene um so obviously you're at a young age from in around my circles like the cocaine the ice it wasn't big but ecstasy MD MDMA was a big thing because when I first came across it was at an underage dance party right um I tried it for the first time and when everyone was going this feels so good I'm thinking this is so good how do I make money off this right you know um it just started like that um and then because it just everything just fit in at that time with the with the networks that I had with the guys that were similar age to me we had a big Network and we were able to distribute that way um it just kind of made sense to us to do it um and then know and so you you'd Rock up to the parties the Rave parties or or dance parties and uh you'd have the drugs and just yeah so that's how we first started you know we just went in with like our pockets full of just and was this still affiliated with the gangs or you broken away yeah at that time yeah so we have like Pockets full of pills and we'll be selling it and um yeah and then one time I did do a drop um in Western Australia um for for a gang and I I got you could call it being kidna but I got I got held um for kind of like for ransom telling these guys cuz they gave them a [ __ ] batch before and they they were demanding money they holding me for ransom So you you're being held captive over there in wa how old were you at the time so I think I just turned 17 okay and how how long did they keep you it was about two about 2 and a half days okay it sounds like we're talking uh bikes one of the biky yeah I I won't mention the name by yeah no don't mention the name they might grab you again yeah talk talk talk us through that one so did you jump on a plane or drive across um we we caught uh a plane across yeah um and then um yeah we just back then there weren't that many sniffer dogs or anything and it was just so so easy different story now yeah um but yeah a went there uh to do a drop and then those guys I I had no idea I thought it was just a drop off and just come they you drop the drugs off they give you the money yeah and I was going to come over and then they just held me there over in per yeah threatening me saying like you know your you guys gave a [ __ ] badge they're demanding more money and all that kind of stuff I had no idea what was going on um and you know they took me to I don't know if it was a clubhouse or the area where they was just staying at yeah um but they actually like fed me and they looked after me I never got roughed up or anything like a little bit of threat here and there um but you know the boys um they were calling them no answer nothing and then they go you know you could be getting like tortur right now and your boys haven't even replied back they're not even they don't even care about you right now they pretty much left you for dead as far as they know you know so and it just kind of got to me going you know what I'm taking all this risk for these guys you know but I'm I'm the one you know that's you know going to be so you you got released from that pretty much and when I got back and because I was doing all this stuff and I had all the networks I'm like well what I just do this myself you know there were there were a lot of other factors that were making me think about you know going away from these guys um and and I think that was just a kind of pivotal moment for me to go you know what let's let's just Branch off from these guys came with a lot of issues um but you know over time those issues it's a it's a dangerous world and you talk about the time you were held and uh because of the quality of the drugs and that and you were treated well and released I I've done Mur investigations where people are being killed because of the quality of the drugs and someone's come up to collect and ends up in a shootout and someone someone's dead yeah and bodies dumped out out in the ocean like it's a rough world yeah I just I just feel to me I was thinking maybe because I was so young I I look like a little bit of a baby but they kind of like they didn't see you as a threat yeah they just wanted to send a message to my guys um why why' they let you live I have no idea cuz they they couldn't get in contact and got SI you pretty much um and I'm pretty sure they had things to do as well um and they did say to me they go look you know um the why they up as they were letting me go they go your brothers don't even care about you yeah and that was the thing that really hit me yeah you know stay with me and that was one of the reasons why I wanted to get out but I I I got to ask you like at that age so you're in your 20s 19 20 or whatever what makes you think you can compete in that that world with all the inherent dangers and risks was it just naivity or it was it was being naive uh it was just being young and just being very ambitious uh and that's my personality I've always been like that since I was young that's my character you know like call it an entrepreneur of spirit or what you want to call it but um I just I just it started with your uh your pornography magazine selling a double page for a dollar yeah and it's s an opportunity you know we had the market and we had the suppliers I was like why not let's go for it so you got a crew together I had a crew together all similar age some somewhere younger than myself um you know one of my coenders um he was 17 years at the time um a family friend of mine you know doing his HSC and he he was actually buying off these other guys and getting totally ripped off and I was like why you getting it from them you might as well just join our crew and be with us yeah you know um just stuff like that people that we could trust and we started taking it to schoolies which actually was the start of how we we started really getting big you know we drive up two weeks before before schoolies before they were doing all the road checks and all that kind of stuff um and we we we'll settle in and then you know the first time we took up like about you know 10,000 it literally disappeared in two days and we're like the ecstasy ecstasy tablets um and we didn't even have enough for ourselves cuz we wanted to party as well we didn't even have enough for ourselves did did you think at this time and I know you're you're a deep thinker and reflecting but at that time did you think you doing something morally wrong like you knew it was criminally wrong but you you took ecstasy yourself you you like the drug selling it to selling it schoolies did you you think about that no because at that time because me and all my friends were taking it as well yeah and we never thought that ecstasy was going to be a A Dangerous Drug you know we kept on telling ourselves it's not like heroin people don't get addicted to this you know it's not like ice you know um either way even if we don't do it they're going to get it anyway they're going up there to get on you know party drugs like this and alcohol so that's the way your proing processing through your your okay so it's all going well you're you're making your money you identified your Market you're running running your business how did it how did it come unstuck um so long story short um this carried on for a few years um so every school is the next school is was we did we did a bigger bigger batch um then we were doing a lot of the festivals um and just we just started hitting up all the festivals clubs and any kind of large events that's what we were doing and we just became a wholesaler after a while and with that uh how much money were you making were you living a good life as in like I said money come money go you know I was had I had a you know renting a place yeah so um I was 18 I had a three-bedroom apartment on Sussex Street in the city you know I was leasing out car I never bought a car under my name I was always leasing out cars um my friend had um access to a lot of fake IDs so we were like you know releasing cars out there fake IDs and all that kind of stuff so you you were living living the High Life call it you could call it high life um but you know you know kid at that age you it's very rare to see that kind of money yeah you know um always had an Entourage around with me um so you think you know you know when you're young you think you're unbreakable and you think you're on top of the world you know there was one time when I was that off my head on on on pills you know someone's asking me for pills I'm telling to go away because I only got two left and I'm trying to empty out my pocket and all these cash is falling out he's like oh cash is falling out like go away and I kept on throwing cash out you know I'll leave the house with like $5,000 in my pocket and I'll be like I want to come back with nothing in my pocket I always end up at the casino and yeah stuff like that very stupid did any uh paranoia kick in that you you get one day the cops are going to kick the door in like it it's you must be looking over your shoulder you know what you learned from your your inmates in prison when you went in there you got to be prepared to do time if you're going to play this game did you consider that or was that just you exuberance where you uh you didn't consider you know when it doesn't happen um you think that it's not going to happen yeah uh and that's why I that's why you need like like role mod even in the criminal World you've got all the role models telling you this constantly you know keeping you on your toes and telling you all this stuff yeah you know if you're McKing up like this is what you're doing wrong you know I think half the time we were just like off our faces so much as well like for for policing if you you got some young BLS all living the living the High Life flashing cash around and you're you're looking for source of where the drugs is coming from there's a path to follow so how how did you get caught yeah so um one of my C fenders um so he met a group where they were washing the money for us so turning it into clean money and they were putting it into a it was like I think it was a trust account or some sort of bank account where they were paying us as like contractors for for overseas company so we give money they were taking about 7% and then they'll they'll watch that money and give it to us back in C clean money into account so like sweet so he us to take cash over in like Raman you know the the Asian noodle boxes and he'll take it over and then not little did I know that this this lady who he was seeing um was doing it for like a couple of syndicates um and then um he ended up having relations with her right uh um and then he started opening his mouth because they were getting on the rack and everything together um open his mouth and then they kind of followed him like who is this guy um and then it happens from there like they've latched on um investigation starts finding out who's who they put like under covers uh to come and you know kind of infiltrate us and yeah and then next next minute I'm doing a deal at the shanga hotel um and you know I always do a deal uh I used to always do deals at hotels and then I'll order myself like a breakfast if it was a morning time I'll order myself some alcohol whatever through room service and it was was morning time at that time and I order I still remember ordered room service um uh a big breakfast and a long black and orange juice and you know I still had cash in the room on the coffee table and I got a knock on the door and I'm thinking that is room service so I walk up to the door and you know literally before I could open it these guys come in wearing ball clovers and masing machine guns and they all come running in and I'm just there going this isn't really my breakfast that I ordered um but the second thought is crap I'm going to get I'm getting robbed here so I the the cash was right next to me so i' thrown the cash everywhere and be line for the door I get a machine gun to the side of the head yeah and I'm pretty much concussed on the floor and there's cash all around me and then I hear the words you're under arrest this is the police and literally everything's in slowmo and I had a $100 note stuck to my face and getting hog TI and and literally I'm looking out the window and remember I told you my mom was an opera singer yeah so she used to always take me to the opera house as a treat okay um you know she'll she'll get her hands on some opera tickets and she'll always take me to the Opera House you know um and I could see the opera house um outside the through the window of the hotel where I was getting arrested and literally I just had this moment of [ __ ] I've taken everything for granted you know um mom's coming to you know work so hard and you know chase their dreams and I'm just here [ __ ] around and is that the F first time you had that sort of feeling pretty much the first time you know every time I talk about it you know it just kind of gets me yeah you know um you're getting a bit teary now talking about it as well no I understand it it's a a painful thing and yeah you realize at that point the consequences of your actions and the people that you love it's impacted on yeah 100% so how how did your mom take it when she found out that you were locked up when I got arrested she was back in South Korea so she got remarried and she moved to South Korea so I'd call her maybe every once a week um maybe twice a week you know just to tell her like I'm doing okay but she she knew that I was um always mingling with the wrong crowd um and she knew the type of crowd that I was mingling with yeah um then when I went radio silent or Comm com silent for about 3 months I told all my friends don't tell my mom cuz all my friends know my mom as well like they treat her like their mom I said don't tell my mom I'm pretty sure I'm going to work my best to try to get bail every time I got Bail refused right I'm going to get bail I'm going to somehow get out of here this is going to be all right denial again right so you're in that denial mindset at at the start everyone thinks that they're going to get bailed and get out um didn't happen um and then one day I get a I get a visit at par the correctional center yeah um you know I'd been in a fight and I had a black guy and busted up lips and cut up hands everywhere and I'm thinking it's one of the boys and I walk out and it's my mom sitting there and I'm just going crap that was broken her heart and she just sitting there just motion that's like no emotions just sitting there and I was like how'd you find me and one of my best friends um apparently told her he go I I gave in you I gave in because um your mom came and she went on her knees and she goes if my son's in a ditch somewhere I want to know right now you know fair enough [ __ ] I can't I can't continue with this that he's told us so she's come for that visit um and the whole time she's visiting you know this is how strong a mother is right the whole time you know she didn't break a tear nothing she's just saying you know you looking after yourself are you eating you know how you doing all that kind of she didn't ask why did you do it anything like that yeah she just goes just look after yourself and she's a very religious lady and she just goes you know focus on your faith you know while you're in here and as she left you know I was walking in and all the visitors get put into one room before they get let out and I turn back and I could just see my mom just breaking down right she's been sto in front of you that was you know that was a bit of a heartbreaker as well and you know I'm just thinking man you know how how did it get to this that has to hurt yeah yeah so your first uh you you get arrested taken to the police station you uh get B refused you're on the truck on the way out to prison what was that like cuz you hadn't sometimes people have experienced the you know child detention Youth detention so it's not that big a step what was their fear going through your mind yeah so look we I didn't know what to think Gary um because you know I went straight to S Hills police station yeah uh I overstayed my visit cuz like all the all the you meant to be there for like a couple days to a week I stayed there for two weeks um if you know sah Hills police station stay there for two weeks you hardly get any showers maybe once a week or every couple of days they give you a shower no toothbrush you're in the same closing andies that you you're in when first got arrested um this flu arest in line all day and then there's this TV that just you can't hear any sound it just fuzzes and this lines going through it's more like it does your head in you can't even watch TV's on but you can't even watch TV look I I I know those cells I've seen those cells it's just for boing places and You' got people coming in that are coming off um heavy drugs like ice heroin and you just see all all sorts of crazies there and when I was in that fish tank um there was a guy that was literally just um in a fetal position facing the wall the whole time lying down and I honestly thought he was dead and I went and kicked him and he kind of moved so cuz he didn't move for so long and I think it was the second day he he hardly moved and he all of a sudden went to the toilet I mean toilet meaning this metal thing with like gang green stuff growing around it disgusting yeah and um he starts doing a number two side like never seen an open Toilet like this before I turned around to give him some privacy and he starts making like these screaming sounds turn around he's got his feces in his hand and started bronzing himself right okay around the wall and everything wiping the over himself um and he was is I think obviously dealing with a lot of mental health issues and you know I cry for attention at that time I was just thinking what the hell is this place and that was my first time in yeah but that wasn't even prison yet that was the holding cell before going to prison that's getting getting you ready for prison yeah and then you go on the escort truck and you know what the escort truck was a little bit more comforting you know you meet a lot of people um that are coming in for the first time and a lot of people who are kind of seasoned kind of seasoned inmates if you want to put it they do jail well and um they kind of you know teach you you know oh the Jail's not going to be like s Hills you get fed there you get you get a television you know um they give you blankets and all that kind of stuff and you know you get showers and you know it sounded pretty good um and that they put you kind of in this um unit how should I say say it it's like a like a new intake unit so you know when you buy a goldfish from the aquarium you know they give it to you in like a plastic bag right and then they put it into um the your then you climatize filter into it yeah so to climatize the temperature then you release it into the big um big tank that's what it was like we were like the new fish you know they put us in this unit which was like the plastic bag and then they put you into the main um and then walking into the main was the most intimidating thing um ever cuz I was still you know just turned 21 years old K uh I've been around crime but I've never seen this kind of this was Next Level you know you had like big ass BLS just all shirts off every for some reason I don't know why everyone has their shirt off in jail you know everyone's just jacked up training all day you know doing boxing in the yard you know doing push-ups pull-ups you know playing cards and just like in the cops we could tell someone that just got out of jail cuz they come out muscle up in suntan pretty much yeah and you walk in and it's um and everyone's staring at you in it's intimidating Place yeah so you know that was the kind of feeling that I got when I first when I first walked into the main it was um quite intimidating but it you just get used to it did you uh were you the racial divides in there yes there was uh little did I know there was something going on between the the indigenous group The koreis and the Asians um so all the Asians are in when I was there uh in 2007 um parkley so area two that's when all the where all the Asians were it was a working unit so it was more of a privilege unit and then you had area one which is right you can see right across so that was a non-working unit did you did you know people in there in the working unit uh are new people but to get there you have to put your name down from area one it takes about 2 weeks yeah once a bed placement comes becomes available then they'll move you across depending on what how how far you are on that list you know now when you when you're in there you said when your mom came to visit you 3 or 4 months into the um prison sentence you had been in a fight what was that uh fight about oh it's just like at the start you know you just kind of I feel because it was remind Center um I feel like inmates are much more on edge uh during reman because you know it's your you you're fresh in you know it's a huge life change uh and everyone's just in a very unstable Place fresh in and you think you could get out NE next week or you might be found not guilty yeah not just that it's just it's just relationships with um people with on the outside you know a lot of people were running businesses that now have now you know been destroyed or they've lost it you know they've being we Partners who are now no longer with with them you know they want to take the kids away from them and all sorts of issues right um phone calls was the worst thing you know you hear you just hear people on the phone just you know losing it you know and everyone just like you know like a like a Melting Pot at that point you know and any little thing just can tick someone off well it it's such a hard thing and I I think it goes to the experience of being in prison you're taken away from family friends and you've got absolutely no control so if you're having an argument with your partner and you have no idea what your partner's doing it just you play with that sit with that in your mind when you're in jail yeah imagine this like your partner just goes I don't want to be with you anymore I found someone else yeah you'd be going crazy in there right um and you're exactly you're powerless to do anything and that's the thing about prison you know physically it's it's not it's not that hard you know you're getting fed you got a you got a bed to sleep in you got a roof over your head how hard can it be physically right it's a psychological warfare that you you got to go through when that cell door closes every night you know and you're in maximum security at that time you know you get locked in at 3:00 to 8:00 the next day you know if you're not in a good mind space you're having a lot of trouble um being able to cope you know you're going to if you don't have any positive coping mechanisms you just go down Rabbit Hole you know um of just negative thoughts and that just really eats away at your soul when that happens yeah I I can imagine that there must be uh like a living nightmare just the the mental mental side of it you uh eventually got um to share a cell with a cellmate that changed your life and it's an interesting story you want to tell tell us about that cuz it's a real sliding sliding door moment in your life isn't it yeah yeah remember like I said you know I was talking to all these career criminals and they were all talking about you know you got to expect to do a lot more jail if you want to go down this path or end up in a coffin you know and I didn't want that and but what else did I know how to do you know was uneducated hardly any family support in in Australia um what else am I going to do I didn't have any work experience um something else caught me was when I still always trained in jail and one of the guys that went out and trained um was was training in our group he got out and he came back literally a couple months back in back into our training group and I was like why you back why are you back and something he said to me that really really got me was people out in their out in society do not accept People Like Us and I was like okay explain to me more and I try to become Square wash my hands you I got myself a job but the only jobs that I could get is these like jobs where people looking down on you you know they treat you like a second class citizen prison yeah um and the moment you try to go into a new Circle because he wants to get out of that Circle and meet new people like a new Social Circle the the the guards go up straight away you know um they're never going to open up to you fully you know so um he inev Lally just went down that path because you know he was getting rejected everywhere you know it was a sad thing to hear about because I could see myself being that gen genuinely tried to make a go going straight but there was no opportunities for this guy there was no support and I saw myself in that same position and I was like crap what do I do anyway sorry cuz we fasted forward we we've got you in jail but we haven't even got you convicted you ended up you got sentenced to 13 13 years 13 years for directing criminal Enterprise okay that that's a big uh big lagging for a 21 year old yeah so the bottom sentence was 9 years so I served 9 years yeah but um my whole par equ parole term was 13 years old okay yeah so going back to um how I met this guy I was at this um point in my life where I wanted to change I wanted to do something different but I just didn't know what to do no one told me what to do you know or how to do it and one day I was reading this book called Rich Dad Poor Dad and and um you know by Robert kosaki and it says in the book that accounting is the language of business and you know I know a lot about a bit about criminal business but what why don't I teach myself this accounting thing you know maybe it might help me to go legit yeah you know um another reason why I wanted to had a bit of a interest in education was you know when I looked around the whole yard you know the common denominator for what everyone was incarcerated was the lack of Education of course there's a lot of child the trauma and disadvantage but including myself I was a part of this statistic no one no one hardly anyone graduated from high school yeah I I'd agree with that and you know when they say they want more police and crack down on Law and Order I I'd feel better if we're pouring into education and really trying to work hard to make sure every every kid gets an education CU I I've saw that through my career and say you're saying stuff that I 100% agree with yeah and you know I seen that first 10 and I was a part of that too so I was like okay well why don't I go teach myself this accounting thing so I read that book and it sounded really interesting right so I went to the prison library and got myself an accounting textbook it was like a first year university accounting textbook and as soon as I opened it up I flick through a few pages and I started sweating uh because everything looked like hieroglyphics to me I didn't understand a single thing and I felt so frustrated because I felt so stupid yeah you know and as soon as I started I just want to give up but you know you sometimes sometimes in life you're meant to meet certain people yeah um you know some people come along to really you to change your life you know and you're meant to seize those moments and I feel like I did um this guy walked into the yard that day and the Rumor was that he was a billionaire accountant yeah you know everyone latched onto the word billionaire and they wanted to go extort this guy yeah I latched onto the word accountant and I'm thinking maybe this guy might be able to help me maybe he's my ticket out of here you know kind of thing so I went up to him and I said look um we can help each other you know um I'll make sure that no one lays a finger on you yeah uh and give you the protection of all the boys but in return you teach me accounting every day that was that was a deal that was a buit proposition that I put put before him and he and he and he luted onto that and not long after we ended up becoming salm mates you know um and not only did he teach me accounting every day but he taught me about business he taught me about the value of education but the greatest thing he taught me was about selfworth you know it was very ironic how I had to find my first positive Mentor in a prison cell um you know and he actually even taught me um told me to he motivated me to do my HSC while I was inside so I did my HC and um and then you know it was just seeing someone that had such a different lifestyle and so so much intellect which I'd never come across you know he was not just an accountant he was a lawyer as well you would have been like a sponge I was a sponge I just wanted to learn I wanted to learn but in in that process we ended up becoming really good friends yeah and there was so many commonalities you know we shared the same Faith as well um and then yeah so we ended up parting ways I did my HSC he he made me read books every night that was a game changer I us should never read books yeah uh to this day and what so I'm just trying to picture it you two in the themselves and he'd be here Joe I want you to read this book he tell me to read it and he go what's this book about and I'll tell him and I go wrong think about it again and it just quiz me like that all the time and it go right okay explain a bit more about it and and they go well can you analyze it a bit more you know it make me always think you know and the thing about what he taught me was in life is not about to you don't have to be smart it's about how much you think about something you know he taught me how to think and problem solve yeah um um yeah I've never done that before and I've never finished anything before but he got me to do my HSC anyway we ended up splitting ways we went to different correctional centers y um and I ended up at Wellington Correctional Center which is about 5 hours in L of New South Wales it's one of the regional centers um and I I still remember that day I was playing cards with the boys out in the unit and this prison officer walks up to me hands me this letter and he goes Quan I don't know how you did it but you bloody did it and I was like okay out of curiosity I just took this letter into my cell um and as I opened it up it said congratulations you've been admitted into the University yourself else wow wow crazy man was that at Wellington prison or or mcar that was at Wellington Wellington that was in maximum security there cuz um okay there was some there was some allegations in we we got move back to maximum security but you know I was sitting in that cell and as I read that letter I remember you know that whole time since I got sentenced I never shed one te because you know I always accepted okay this is the consequences of my actions um but when I was sitting in that cell I was grabbing onto that letter and I was boiling my eyes out because you know no one would understand the feeling of Freedom that I was feeling at that moment you know because because of that letter because the amount of work that I put into it and I knew that that was my ticket out of this life yeah that was my changing moment you know that was my key out of you how I can see you how emotion you are just thinking about it but yeah getting that that education and uh yeah full credit to you because there's a lot of distractions in prison but if you can make uh make uh something worthwhile doing that you also um after the HSC while still in prison you you enrolled in the uni course as well yes I got enrolled I got accepted into unsw and then I just deferred yep because I wanted to do instead of you know when you get to your c3e so like your minimum security um you've got an option so if you've done good be if you've proven your behavior and you get to C3 they'll put an anchor monitor on you yeah um and then you can go out either work or you can go study yeah I wanted to go down the study path um so our case officers had this whole plan of me going to Long Bay so I could go to unsw for long but it's up the road it's one bus ride right um and when I got there the superintendent in charge goes there's no way I'm going to send you to Long uh to unsw he made it his mission not to send me and he kept on saying you're a Crim just go work you're too old to be studying you know and that put fire in my belly to want to do it even more when you're told you can't yeah and I remember there were times and like Squad used to come in and rip up my textbooks and stuff like that and you know sometime people would be breaking down but I was like you know what I'm going to go even more I'm going to go and do it even more you know that's so that that's what you're up against in there all all the distractions of it surviving in prison and then uh you some resentment there look I you get you know you get good prisoners you get bad prisoners you get good corrective Services officers and bad ones were there any people there that were encouraging whether it be Crooks or corrective Services officers man I met so many staff that was so um encouraging I'm I'm in touch with them today till today you know on LinkedIn and they see what I'm doing now and a lot of them are like we're so proud um that we actually you know did this for you you know we encouraged you and yeah it must be a proud moment for them you know like because there's not that many inmates that actually go out and actually come back to try to change the system yeah you said when you in cell with your me an air mate or be an air mate and uh the value of of selfworth and uh that's I think if someone shows some faith in you whether it's you your cellmate or a prison officer how much difference that makes it's crazy you know um I think selfworth is something that you know a lot of young men and even women disase but from what I can relate I mean lack um if you don't grow up with a like a kind of male role model that's showing you that you're able you're capable of doing things um and you know that's why I think I got into a lot of trouble when I was young because I just didn't have the right role models to to give me the confidence to do something that I'm proud of doing yeah you know um and then you know he was the first one to show me that you know he believed he that I can do it even though I didn't believe in myself well if you get told constantly you can't do this or you're no good you're no good it it just becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy you just you to believe that all the negativity that's around you yeah correct um yeah and that's part of what I do now you know so when you uh when you uh was released from prison how had you changed as a person what what year was this You released so I was released to November uh 2017 okay yeah um so when I got released um so that was after doing Works release yep um I got released from Long Bay Correctional Center um and I didn't have a place to go so I rented out this place in litam uh it was one of those there were three houses remaining on a street that was all apartment blocks and they were the last three houses and they were due to be demolished soon so it was pretty much like a dilapidated house um and I was able to rent a room for very cheap um but the problem was there was like no no hot water so the first person had a shower you're not going to get you're not going to get hot water you know little did I know the you know the health benefit of having cold showers but I was swearing now people are putting them putting them in the bathroom take water out but I was swearing back then you know during winter be freezing my ass off but you know I was still um so motivated to to go to university so literally a month after I got out of prison I en like I was enrolled into go to university I was doing my full-time uh studies in a bachelor of Commerce right and I still remember um my first course that I did uh was called creating change it was an undergraduate Business course that I had to do um and in that course they were talking about recidivism rates and disadvantaged Societies in Australia and the crime rates and all that kind of stuff and how business can solve social issues and that was the first subject that I did and it was through a lecturer um Dr Ali Walker who was doing the lecture and literally I approached it after and went hey um I just came out Long Bay not not long ago I loved your lecture um I've got this business idea and she was just looking at me going did this is this guy even in my class who is this me yeah but I explained to her and everything and she she thought it was fascinating and she actually um put me in contact with Center for social um impact which was based at unw um and they turned my idea into a case study for an NBA program and these NBA students helped me to develop what confit is today okay which is a social Enterprise well we're going to talk that's uh in part two we're going to talk all about what you're doing with confit and all the other amazing you've done in the scholarships and CU I think it's one of the biggest turnarounds I've seen on I catch killers and we've had some huge turnarounds but seriously what you what you're doing is is quite impressive what did how did jail just before we finish part one how did jail change you as a person like what what who was the Joe that went in and who was the Joe that came out look you know what what I thought was an angry and kind of hardened uh young man um who wanted to do crime you know was actually someone who was crying out um crying out for help you know and like that was the only way that I could kind of solve issues you know um it was also ignorance because I didn't know any better I went to prison and really found myself you know not only through my faith but through an understanding of myself going okay I actually became a in jail you know being able to meet other men and their I guess through their mistakes um came out different person with different understanding and different perspective on life you know um and I was a much more positive individual remember I told you I was one angry little kid yeah but you know through prison I was a able to understand um gratitude um to be grateful for the little things in in life because there was they were taken away from you you know I was able to um set goals for myself positive goals um and I was always grounded you know and always looking at the big picture you know um there's bigger things out there that I can achieve um that was just within before my life was within a certain small circle it was very ironic that I had to be locked up in a little cage to to develop my mind to look at there's a bigger world out there it's so funny right well some sometime sometimes we take the Long Way to the get to the top don't and I came out um you know Fitness was a huge part of my transformation as well um you know I use Fitness every day to not only stay positive like today you know in confir my uh out slogan is train to be free because even though our bodies were incarcerated or my body was incarcerated my mind used to be free whenever I used to train so that's what we call TR to be there's a therapeutic effect from training they they're locked up there you hear that time and time again from people who have been inside let's let's take a break now when we get back for part two we're going to delve right into confit and everything else that you've been doing so thanks for uh sharing like a very personal story about the your your starting life and uh What uh what got you in prison and who you were when you walked out of prison so in part two we're going to find out what that person did thanks [Music] cheers [Music] [Music]

Channel: True Crime Australia

Views: 133,591

Keywords: joe kwon, i Catch Killers, bikies, gary jubelin, drug deals, true crime killers, documentary, True Crime Central, underworld, Docos, Aussie, drug, Real Crime, documentaries, true crimes, Criminal, stories, Crime Community, Australian, Aus, crime channel, crime, crime stories, True Crime, True Crime Stories, criminals, true crime shows, best true crime, interesting true crime cases, Real crime documentaries, crime drama, crime drama shows, crime shows, confit, Bikies & drug deals

Id: FZthdbEJ7u8

Length: 55min 35sec (3335 seconds)

Published: Sat Apr 13 2024