Best TV of 2024? No TV is Perfect, Which One is Perfect for You?

I am honored to welcome the most accomplished  YouTuber we've had on the podcast Caleb Denison,   Editor at Large from Digital Trends to discuss  the new crop of 2024 TVs [Music] over the last   15 years Caleb has been making video content  for Digital Trends which has exceeded 300   million views and on average his videos are  currently receiving 3.8 million views per month   and if you've researched a TV purchase there's  a good sense there's a good chance that you've   seen Caleb welcome to the podcast hey thanks for  having me I appreciate it and just to be clear   3.8 million per month is across all of Digital  Trends views I don't know if I can lay claim   to gathering that many on my own uh just to you  know honor my publication but yeah thank you so   much for having me it's a pleasure to be here  well we're excited to have you and we're also   here with eCoustics Editor at Large Chris Boylan  who has had some hands-on experience with a number   of 2024 TVs welcome Chris thank you and yeah  as as Brian mentioned I think we've all seen   some of the TVs um that are being released this  year from the the five major manufacturers Sony,   Samsung, TCL, Hisense and LG but I believe Caleb  is the only one who seen all five in their final   versions like post CES at demo and actually you've  done a few measurements here and there from what   I've heard from you so yeah so what what  are your thoughts on this year's crop oh I mean   I have so many I'm not even sure where I would  start you know I think there are a bunch   of themes that I think that we could talk about  and one of them and I feel partially responsible   for this craze that has started to surround  brightness capability and televisions I mean it   dates back a few years now but it seems like ever  since HDR kind of hit the mainstream and you know   all your major streaming services are offering  HDR content and lots of it you know there's been   a lot of excitement around reaching certain peak  brightness levels both for having a very bright   average picture level so that the TV still has  a lot of punch and pop even though you may be   watching in a room flooded with daylight but then  also for you know those peak specular highlights   that make you know HDR content so compelling and  exciting and so we've you know I didn't coin the   term but the the Brightness Wars have been on  for quite some time and this you know this year   is certainly no different you know we wanted  to see brighter and brighter OLEDs and we   have received that and then on the LED or mini  LED backlit LCD televisions those have just gone   absolutely bonkers I measured the I mean the two  brightest TVs I've ever measured just happened   last week and the week prior while I was in New  York one each from Hisense and TCL so brightness   capability is still very much a thing but I think  there's a lot of room to talk about you know how   the content is handled um outside of just you know  all of that insane brightness as well so I mean   yeah maybe that's a little bit of a conversation  starter there I feel like people are really   excited by brightness and I understand why but  in that excitement I feel like you know some   sight has been lost around what else is really  important for a great-looking television and I   think you know personally speaking as I go and  I review this year's crop of TVs I'll definitely   be looking beyond the brightness into what  really makes a TV enjoyable to watch um and and   that's going to come down to the processing you  know and how each manufacturer decides they   want to handle that how how they they prioritize  things I will say just to set the tone for the   the rest of the conversation I think it's really  important for people to realize that when you're   designing a television and and this is true  of audio too right it's a series of trade-offs   there's you you you can have this thing  but it's going to require that you you know   pull back on this other thing and so you know  just as it is in audio with TV engineering it's a   series of tradeoffs and so there is no perfect  TV and I think that's the trick is you know   when finding a TV that's best for you is honing  in on what's most important to you and then   understanding that you know you you may get  this one thing that you really wanted but   you'll have to understand that there you know  will be little deficiencies here and there and   in the aggregate I think um you can still have a a  really really enjoy your TV but the the pursuit of   perfection at least for now um is a fools errand  if you ask me not to be mean about it but you   know the more you look for that perfect TV the more frustrated you're gonna get when you   don't find it does that make sense yeah it totally  makes sense and I I think you know you're right   that TVs are trying to be brighter than each  other and the brightness wars are certainly   full on but equally important important is the  opposite end of the spectrum right and that's   something that OLEDs have always been best at  because on an OLED you can turn off or on or   anywhere in between all of the pixels you know at  the pixel level so I think what's impressed me so   far from what we've seen companies like Sony and  TCL and Hisense and I'm sure Samsung although I   haven't seen the latest batch from Samsung yet is  not just like how many zones does it have and how   bright can it get but how much specificity  Can it have in those zones in being able   to approximate a pixel level control display like  a um uh you know like an OLED or a micro LED which   has you know again pixel level control so Sony's  Demos in LA where they basically ripped off the   LCD and showed us the backlight were really  effective I think at showing us just how   detailed the picture gets before you've even put  that that LCD layer on top to make it look like   an actual you know image and that was impressive  to me and at the TCL demo they're talking about   the same thing not just the number of zones not  just you know on or off but all the levels in   between in order to create this backlight that  that can really allow you to see starfields and   you know the Blade Runner credits the white on  black without any halo and smearing around   the edges so it seems to me like this year  it's almost a little bit like qualitatively   better than last year in in how good these these  Min LED TVs are starting to look they definitely   are getting better and yet we're  seeing some challenges there you know mini LED became a big buzzword because of what  it promised right tinier little backlights that   you could pack into tighter clusters and then  break down into more zones promise something that   approximated you know pixel level control and  and I think everybody got excited by the idea   that you could have the the really high peak  brightness along with really great black levels   and mitigated you know blooming in halo and  stuff like that but what I think what we found is   that the the horsepower that is required for the  processing to execute that backlighting well is   a little bit more challenging than you know I  think we understood it to be and that you know   the more zones you create the more work you create  and the more work you have the more processing   power you need and and I think you know that's  that's where we're seeing the the limitations   of the the mini LED backlit TVs now is that  the more zones you break it down into the more   risk there is that you're gonna start seeing some  other things um which just goes back to the whole   there is no perfect TV and there's it's always a  set of stinking tradeoffs you know yeah um but I   impressed with some of the Innovation that we're  seeing um and you you know you mentioned that   Sony backlight demo there's a good amount  of video on that available to be watched   on YouTube and elsewhere and I would encourage  anybody who is curious about how the backlight in   a in an LCD based TV works to go take a look at  that because it's really revealing literally   and figuratively and that you get to see some  of the the the magic that goes on and some   of the limitations of the older technology and  some of the stuff that's been unlocked by this new   technology it's it's granted you got to kind  of be a little bit of a TV nerd to to care but I   think I still think it's really interesting to  see because it's not often that they they they   peel back the curtain and and let you see behind  the scenes especially for Sony Sony has always   been like you know don't worry about what's going  on in the background it's not the number of zones   you have it's how you use them it's not the number  of LEDs you have it's how you use them and    they've been very cagey about that stuff and this  year they decided to be a little bit more more   transparent about that which I have respect for  and also was excited to see right now speaking of   transparency we could go two ways OLED transparent  OLED TV but that's not what I was thinking I was   thinking more about the lack of transparency in  a certain other s brand uh when we were asking   Samsung hey which panels are in these TVs they are  getting a little shy about answering what should   be a fairly simple question in their one the  one line forget which model it is the s90d some   of the sizes are wrgb OLED panels I guess built  most likely by LG display and some of the others   are QD-OLED panels built by Samsung display and I  guess what they're saying is that we're reaching   levels of picture performance with our processing  that almost makes the ingredients irrelevant and   that seems like a very strange position you know  to say here's the line and some of them are this   kind of panel some are that kind of panel but  don't worry they'll all look great right because   us as reviewers we review a 65 in right and we're  saying this picture quality these measurements   are going to carry through across the line and  now we can't really say that anymore because the   characteristics of a of a QD OLED panel and a WRGB  OLED panel are are going to be different in some   pretty significant ways uh I mean you're touching  on a really interesting topic and one that is very   close to my heart because you know as a TV  reviewer with a with a fairly large channel to   run and and that means that it's a pretty a pretty  uh sizable audience yes but also you know a broad   spectrum audience I am always struggling to  talk to the the average Joe who may not have a ton   of he may be they may be tech curious but maybe  not tech aware you know not super dug into the   technology and they just want to they just want to  know what the takeaway is right and then there's   the enthusiast that really does care about how the  sausage is made and and when we talk so when   we talk about like how the sausage is made on  the LED backlit side of things it could be how   many zones you have and how many actual mini LEDs  you have um and and how all that gets controlled   you just pointed out on the OLED side of things it  could now that we have two different kinds of   OLED technology you've got the WRGB OLED now  you have the QD or Quantum dot OLED I feel   here's my stance on this if you care if you  just want to get an OLED because you heard it was   really good and and you've got bucks  and you're not too worried   about you know how much money you're spending  then maybe you don't care you know which kind of   OLED panel is in that television but for those  who are into this stuff and they know that   there are some fundamental differences between  the technology and strengths of each one they   do care what panel is in that television and  they want to know what they're getting and   I would say that it got complicated when  Samsung decided they wanted you know on Samsung   side of things they just want to offer a a a wide  range of OLED televisions and a a wide range of   sizes from a business standpoint that makes  sense they have the most sizes of OLEDs at the   most different as at as many different price  points as you can possibly get and when they   decided that you know they wanted to have a less expensive line of OLED televisions and they   wanted to range outside of 55, 65, and 77 inches  they necessarily had to decide to buy WRGB OLED   panels from LG and use them in those televisions  and I mean those of us in the know know that   presently speaking there are only three sizes  of QD OLED panel that Samsung display makes 55 ,  65, and 77 so if you are looking at an OLED TV and  it is not one of those three different sizes then   you are looking at a WRGB OLED as an insider  we know that but if you don't know   about that stuff and you hear that Samsung has  these amazing QD-OLED TVs and you go and you buy   yourself an 83 inch S90D OLED you know  you might be surprised to find out that it's not   that cool QD-OLED technology that you had heard  about and that's frustrating right Samsung   kind of you know I feel like it's a little bit of  a pickle that they've got because the lion share   of the people out there stand to be more confused  than any else when you start differentiating the   panel type of of the OLED TV um and so the numbers  by the Numbers it makes way more sense for Samsung   to say something like you know we strive to  provide the best picture quality performance   across our OLED line and that's all they're going  to say as soon as you open that door into getting   you know well this TV uses this panel and this  TV uses this panel then the then the person has   the question well which one do I want what's the  difference between the two and can you imagine   being a sales representative at Best Buy and  trying to walk somebody through the differences   between WRGB OLED and QD OLED now you're talking  about Quantum nano particles and like yeah yo   let's be honest that's micro lens don't forget the  micro lens yeah and MLAs and and yeah or non MLAs   and yeah I mean that gets really complicated and  I can I can see it generating more confusion than   anything else which confusion is an impediment to  purchasing and that is absolutely true and so I I   I suspect like you guys am very frustrated when  you know I have to ask the question I mean I'm a   journalist right I think I think I'm associated with you YouTuber status by a lot of folks because   I'm on YouTube a lot but I'm a journalist and so I  don't just make assumptions or presumptions I ask   questions and I will relay the statement made  by the company in response to that because that's   what you do and so yeah it's very frustrating for  me to have to parrot that statement um because I'd   like to I'd like to have corporate confirmation  of that thing now we can get these TVs in and we   can use a little USB microscope and put it on the  screen and we can say a loop you can see it with   a loop you can see sure yeah I don't  personally have a jeweler's loop but I do have   a USB microscope because they're they're 20  bucks at Amazon and why wouldn't you you know but   yeah I mean so yeah we can we can tell the  world which OLED has which panel but yeah   I'm sorry I got a little off on a tangent there  but I do think about that all the time you   know you know Samsung wanted a broader range  of products at more price points to sell more TVs   and when they did that they had to  choose to either be radically transparent about   you know the tech in each TV or take the safer  route and not confuse customers and make things   challenging for sales persons and even though  it frustrates me to no end I think that they made   the smarter call from a business perspective well  to me I think uh it's just ex the only thing that   makes it confusing is that it's within the same  product line and they have different models   for different reasons right you you've got an  entry level you've got a mid mid-range level   and you've got an upgrade and and if the Samsung  panels um I mean I I hear what you're saying 100%   they want to sell an 83 inch TV they want it to be  their top-of-the-line the only choice they have is   to make it with an a WRGB OLED panel and they're  going to differentiate it from the competition   by talking about superior processing I understand  that Sony does the same thing except Sony has the   benefit maybe of not making any of the panels so  you're you're not like necessarily um encouraging   it or or or glorifying a technology that that  is your direct competitor um but because they   they do include both they they sell a WRGB OLED in  one line and a QD OLED in another line one   story I've heard from a friend at Samsung was  that it used to be kind of taboo if you brought   home like a western you know boyfriend but what  was worse was if you work for LG and you brought   home a Samsung boyfriend so I was very surprised  that Samsung and you know said yeah we're going to   start buying WRGB OLED panels from LG to round out  our line and we feel like we can make good TVs out   of that for Sony again it's easier because  they're buying from multiple places but I was   a little originally surprised when they did that  but I can see why they'd want to do it you know   they want to have a piece of that market bring  their processing into it and potentially make   a superior TV I guess we'll see once we see them  and measure them and compare them head-to-head you   guys I don't think there is a single journalist  or anybody else who's involved with the corporate level folks at these manufacturers  I don't think there's anybody involved with   that who was not straight up shocked to find out  that Samsung was using an LG product in their ware   there is you know fierce corporate competition  there are spies there is like corporate   espionage there are I mean you know maybe less  so here in the United States but like yeah the competition is fierce let's just leave  it at that and you certainly back in the days   when LG made a phone you certainly wouldn't walk  into your your Samsung job with an LG phone in   your pocket and vice-versa and you know there um  it is a thing where if you're on a press trip and   it's being hosted by a particular manufacturer  the hotel they uh they host you in if they can   make sure that the TV in that hotel is of their  own brand they will absolutely do that it goes   deep and so yeah it's a real shock I think  to find out that uh you know Samsung is using   an LG display uh product in in in their lineup  but that just goes to the the fact that there's   a very big difference between the Samsung and the  LG that sell you your electronics and the Samsung   and the LG display corporations that make  the products those guys their number one   mission is to sell stuff and so they don't care  whose money it is it's you know it's just as uh   green as it is you know from anyone else so yeah  yeah but I mean you know to try and put a bow on   this one I think for us it's super interesting  to know that this is happening and it can be   very frustrating because they are very different  technologies and in many ways and they you know   but at the end of the day like it is OLED and  it does OLED things and those things are pretty   freaking spectacular you know and and so yeah  the bottom line is I just feel conflicted you   know all the time like I feel like I need to talk about the difference because   it's the right thing to do but I always worry  about confusing someone or causing pause when   ultimately if you buy an 83 inch OLED TV it's gonna be pretty awesome you know yeah yeah it's going to   be awesome so yeah conflicted well my question in  through all of this is all the TVs have gotten so   good can you actually spot the differences between  a QD OLED a "w"whatever OLED and mini LED and mini   QD mini like there's so many technologies  now with a "Q" and "O" and something   in the name that you can't even keep track of what  you're what the consumer is trying to juggle   all this but tech is rife tech in general is rife  with acronyms and we in the AV world are certainly   no different and oh my gosh you're right there  are so many acronyms and letters well I guess   they're not technically acronyms apparently I've  been misusing that term all these days   but yeah I mean it is a lot I think I mean speaking personally and I think   anybody who reviews displays or is otherwise a  display expert can definitely tell the differences   now the difference between what a WRGB OLED can do  and what a quantum dot or QD OLED can do spotting   the difference requires very specific material  at the end of the day quantum dot is capable of   reproducing certain colors in just such a way that  WRGB OLED is not but those specific colors are I   mean you got to go hunting down the content that  that has those colors it's very specific special   stuff and you know certain movies will have it  and I mean it's one of those things where it's   measurable and you can tell a difference if  you're looking at a side by-side comparison   or something uh but at the end of the day I think  the average viewer at home is not sensitive to   those differences so much at least in and among  OLEDs and then when it comes to the the mini LED   or QLED TVs that we talk about there I think  people are very sensitive to brightness um and   so maybe they they can they can sense you know  the differences of among you know the brighter TVs versus the not as bright TVs but  it gets harder and harder after that to spot the   the measurable differences between the two  I think what people are most sensitive to and   I think this is the most important thing today um  is the cleanup and presentation of low bit rate or   low bit depth content the the kind of stuff that  we stream online specifically YouTube content you   know right the the YouTube algorithm compresses  the content that we upload and um that it can be   noisy and blocky and splotchy and patchy and  you know this is true too of of live streaming   TV you know where the source signal coming from  broadcasters is often 720p or 1080i you know and   so it's starting at a low level to begin with  and then you can press it for streaming and so   that can get kind of messy and I think yeah  what might be more important to people than the   brightest television might be the TV that that  cleans up you know that kind of we'll call it   dirty content or you know compressed content so  that it looks really good on a big screen because   the bigger the bigger the screen the more obvious  um that dirtiness or splotchiness or blockiness   gets and um and and you know I think we've seen  it and we definitely hear it from all these TV   manufacturers at one point 55 was the new 42 then  65 was the new 55 and now the 70 inch TVs and 80   some odd inch TVs are flying off the shelves so  much so that like 98 in TVs are a thing TLC's got   three different models at different price tiers of  98 inch TV guys that's insane and they sold 10,000   of them in the us alone last year without try  yeah well without people being able to see them   on the shelves yeah and this year 2024 the goal is  100,000 98 inch plus TVs so they've got the three   98s and the 115 which by the way you can get on  Amazon right now for about $19,999 [correction] if   the money's burning a hole in your pocket but  that's I guess another question is you know how   big is big enough and you know if people are  really in the market for those big ones they   really don't they really can't choose an OLED for  those unless they're willing to go you know super   super expensive I mean the 98 inch OLEDs that  I've seen are still in the $20,000 range while   the 98 inch you know maybe not many LED but you know  LED LCD TVs start at like $2,000 there was a TCL   last year $2,000 for 98 in TV all the way up to  maybe you know 10 to 12,000 for a high-end model   from like one of the you know top tier brands so  I guess if you're in a certain TV size market you   don't have as many choices and you just take what  you can get in that size but in your opinion to   take it back to this whole quality issue do you  think a movie lover who likes watching with the   lights low in a home theater style environment um  would be satisfied this year with a mini LED TV   and might even choose it over an OLED TV just due  to its higher dynamic range and and higher Peak   brightness and the Improvement that those TVs have  made in Black Level and contrast do you think that   we're at the point this year where someone can  make that choice and be happy with it like yep   I definitely bought the best TV I could and it was  not Le I would say um well I mean broadly speaking   Yeah I think that many LED backlit TVs some of  them have gotten so good that you know they   they're capable of such incredible contrast and  and really good control of the backlights and um   and not a bunch of gray and splotchy stuff they've  gotten so good that um and they still are a less   expensive technology to produce than OLED right  and so um I think that yeah 100% people can um   can buy a mini LED back lit TV and be thrilled  with it I mean blown away especially if you're   upgrading from a TV that's five years or older  right the the I it's it's one of those things   like you know you look in the mirror and you don't  see yourself aging every day right but you know   if you look at a picture of yourself from five  years ago oh my word look how much more gray and   wrinkles and whatever with TV technology you know  year after year after year it seems like it might   be more iterative you know more Evolution than  Revolution I like to say sometimes but if you   if you look back at where TV technology was five  years ago holy cow man the TVs today are just on   a whole new level and they're less expensive for  the higher performance and so absolutely I think   most the the vast majority of people out there  needing to buy a TV are going to be thrilled with   a QLED with some some solid mini LED back lighting  absolutely and because they're less expensive they   will be enticed to buy a larger TV um which I  think where this conversation has to go guys is   size versus quality right where do you want  to put your money do you want to put if you   have a fixed amount do you want to that money  to get the biggest TV you can possibly get   and you're not really super picky about picture  quality as long as it looks pretty good or are   you willing to give up a few diagonal inches  to get a slightly higher quality image out of   that TV and how do you know how do you know how  picky you are you you know and which I think   is why it's really important for people  to be able to see the TVs before they buy them   you know especially at this 98 inch level you  you might be feeling really enticed by that two or   $3,000 98 inch TV but if you're also  noticing that there are $10,000 98 inch TVs well   gosh where's that $8,000 go what's it giving you what  do you get for $8,000 more are you going to be   missing out on something that's a real concern  and so being able to see these TVs and decide for   yourself I like the way that looks or no that  um boy I see a lot of creepy crawlies on the   screen you know when I'm looking at it and it  just seems kind of noisy or dirty or or whatever   that's when you know I think I might want to  spend a little bit more get a little bit better   and you know what dang it if I have to drop down  to an 85 in TV to do it that's still pretty big um   but I think I'll be happier with knowing that  I've got you know really solid image quality and   still got to buy a really big TV yeah yeah it's a  good point and I think TCL did say they're gonna   they're gonna have their 98 inch in at least  500 locations in in North America this year I   don't know whether they'll have all of the SKS I  I think it's probably going to depend depend on   the on the retailer like a Best Buy if they have  it in Magnolia they might have the higher end one   you know a Sam's Club might have the middle middle  tier or the lower end one but um I think the point   um you know Chris the executive VP at TCL was  making was if these people are already looking   at 85s then a 110 I mean sorry a 98 is only  about five and a half inches more on each side   but overall gives you 30% more viewing area so  they think by getting them into the retail store   into the channels like PC Richards on the North in  the Northeast and Best Buy and and Sam and Sam's   Club maybe Costco um that they're gonna the sales  are just going to take off because people are   going to see it and say be really impressed for  the most part but then also realize it's not that   much bigger than an 85 I mean I can fit it right  I actually have a qu question for both of you guys   I'm gonna I'm gonna turn the tables on you here  for a second uh no I'm just curious um has it   also been your experience that you have found it  remarkably easy to get comfortable with a gigantic   TV screen size that at one point you thought was  just absolutely preposterous oh yeah like no I'm   100% like the bigger like what you thought could  have been the biggest five years ago I thought 75   was the biggest I'd probably ever need and now  I've seen 83 and 88 and 98 so I agree with you   100% that 100 in or 98 inch is to me that's  more important than the absolute pixel level   control over color accuracy like that's just  my personal preference that I've seen less than   perfect TVs and be totally happy with them at that  massive size and not even think about oh it's a   little black level it's slightly off I'm not like  thinking about that because the screen is just so   huge and but that's me that's not everybody uh  Chris what do you think it took me all of five   minutes to get used to 137 inch 2:35 to 1 you know  ultrawide projector screen um and and that's what   I've got I've got a you know lens memory and a  projector um but it doesn't come close to what an   OLED or even a good you know mini LED TV can do  picture quality-wise um I think I'd be a little   worried if I were a projector maker right now  because their whole you know value proposition   was always well if you're going at a 100 or more  you're going to have to get a projector whether   it's a front projector or a UST front projector  or you know a long throw that was the only choice   but now when you can get 98 for you know two to  $6,000 or you get 115 15 to $20,000 it's getting   a little harder to justify the the projectors you  know because you a good us is going to cost you   about $2,500 $3,000 add another thousand for a  really good you know fresnell screen then you're   actually over the price of a 98 inch flat panel  and a 98 inch flat panel is going to be brighter   it's gonna potentially have a better overall  picture quality than than these USD projectors   are so I think sure 120 inch and above 150 inch  particularly obviously there are no flat panel   choices except a micro LED and then ah you're  going to see the seams I do whenever I see a   microLED these really expensive ones I can't help  but like look for the seams between the screens   and with a 98 inch you know uh mini LED there  are no seams because it's all one big panel with   115 inch you know 115 inch mini LED it's the same  thing it's one big TV and so again I'd be a little   worried if I were in the projected business right  now I mean it's just like you don't have to have a   dedicated home theater space to have a really big  green experience at your home it can it can go in   the living room it can go in you know if you have  like more of a den situation it can go in there it   can go anywhere you want you know lights flowing  through the windows the skylights it it doesn't   matter like you you know as long as you've got the  space to put it um you know a a wall wide enough   or a you know a credenza wide enough like you  can have a gigantic home theater-like experience   in any room you want except maybe the bathroom  but like really you know nobody's stopping you   like if you don't need a mirror in your bathroom  you could maybe have a 98 inch TV in there and I   the camera I person I personally would find that  more entertaining than looking at myself in the   bathroom that's just me but like no I think uh  what we're seeing here is a real culmination   of crazy events like people are accommodating  larger and larger screen sizes in their home   these screens can go anywhere in the home uh that  you need them to go uh the price is coming down   and uh and it just changes the game and yeah I  I do feel for the the projector makers um they   were already more specialty and now they're even  more specialty still I thought us you know Ultra   short throw projectors were like oh wow that's  going to revive the uh the projector industry   by quite a bit but then but then the 98 inch TVs  just started popping up for three grand and I was   like well never mind you know like I don't I don't  know it's a it's a really interesting uh time that   we're in but you know Brian I think I think  what you said represents the thoughts and feelings   of the consumer the broader consumer base  which is that they're a lot more forgiving than   us picture quality experts you know and that  size counts for a lot I won't say everything   but it counts for a lot and the mini LED  backlighting systems even though they may not be   perfect they're so much better than what we were  getting five years ago and and there's so much   wow factor there that it's no wonder that these  huge screens uh are just are just popping off   you know with Hisense and I think you  have an opportunity to get you know a really   impressive looking product for a little bit less  than you're going to pay with Samsung LG and Sony   if you are a little bit pickier and you've got  the budget you can you can spend with those other   three companies the only thing um that I wish I could address you know as a reviewer   is uh long-term the longevity of the product you  know how well is it going to hold up and I don't   just mean like is it still going to be making  a picture in two to three years or is the power   supply going to go out and cause you a problem  I also mean is the Smart TV interface um which   now just runs the whole TV you know is that going  to hold up um is the processor is it going to get   laggy and sluggish and slow and be frustrating  to use you know um over time I wish I wish I   was able to answer those questions because I know  those are the chief concerns um for folks who are   maybe you know TCL and high sense are new names  to them and it's and it's fair to it's fair to   be concerned about the product quality overall  and the longevity of the product and I can't   speak to that but there is no denying the bang  for your buck situation going on with a TCL or   high sense you know and I think one of the things  that um that LG has been good about lately you   know they used to really kind of own the old OLED  Market but now not maybe they're sharing it a bit   now but they do come with a fiveyear warranty and  they're great about updating their user interface   the web OS on older models to get basically all of  the later you know goey improvements and and the   new apps and everything they're they're they've  been great about maintaining their own ecosystem   the web OS platform um for many years I mean I  have a neighbor with about a four-year-old uh you   know LJ OLED and you keeps getting updates to his  to his smart TV platform and that and that's good   and the five-year warranty you know some people  worry about burning an OLED that's a pretty good   piece of mind I think a lot of people do upgrade  their TVs in within that five-year period um I   personally haven't seen a lot of burn-in with you  know OLEDs over more than five years but you know   our rtings does some some measurements of that  and they they they say you know there is some to   be found um particularly if you really you know  watch a lot of persistent content with a logo   and you know particular part of the screen  but you're right like some of the the newer brands   the newer to our market like high sense and TCL  we haven't been as dominant here until recently um   there might be some some question about longevity  um I mean I don't think there are any known issues   about it but but you're right there're a little  bit more of an unknown they haven't established   themselves as well in our market yet yeah let's  not forget I mean I I think we are all uh old you   know we are all old enough here to remember when  LG and Samsung made the uh the the joke phones   like they were you know they were not the phones  that you would buy you bought those because they   were less expensive um you know and and you could  afford to get one and and it functioned but they   were not at the forefront of you know cell phone  technology and as a matter of fact I mean I mean   I think we all remember when Samsung and LG  were kind of newcomers and um and they played   distant uh second fiddle to I'm mixing metaphors  but I think we'll live uh you know they they   played they were at a distant second to the  big boys like Sony and Toshiba and Panasonic   and JVC and now they have achieved you know world  domination yeah you know I think you know with TCL   and high sense we're we're we're witnessing that  same sort of like growing phase in which it's just   a matter of time until they built trust with the  public and uh and have the same sort of cache that   that we that we assign Samsung and LG now you know  it takes time to build that that kind of trust   with the consumer and everything but right man I  mean it's hard to ignore them when they're putting   out uh such impressive stuff at such achievable  price points you know right right and they're also   going you know pretty hard at the market angle I  mean you partnering with the NFL and partnering   with NBA they're getting a lot of visibility in  front of some of the top TV buyers right I mean   I think people you know live sports is one of the  top drivers for new TV purchases around whether   it's around you know March Madness or or the Super  Bowl it's important and when they're seeing some   NFL players uh you know talk about the new TCL  TV for example um on social media I think that's   that's helping to win the hearts and minds of a  lot of these people who are buying these TVs and   might not have heard of the TCL brand two years  three years ago so you know kudos to them for   growing the market share TCL according to the  latest numbers was the number two worldwide TV   provider second to Samsung and slightly ahead of  LG so they're making some definite inroads into   the market yeah I mean I kind of want to wrap us  up with a topic that we kind of alluded to but for   everyone chasing the specs and the highest knits  and the highest brightness the content hasn't   caught up to that yet like what you're most of the  content that you are watching through live sports   or even most of the movies out there especially  all the older movies is not this high brightness   High HDR that's gonna capitalize  on all this stuff so the TV technology has jumped   ahead right now of what the movie industry is  capable of delivering so Caleb maybe you could   speak to that as we kind of wrap up this as  to people chasing specs that's kind of the final   question should they be chasing specs that  almost they can't utilize right now except   for special demo content that they can show off  well I mean at a certain point you don't have to   be chasing specs anymore to buy a TV that is more  capable than the content that you feed it right   I mean this is a chicken and the egg situation  that has existed for quite some time you know   first with you know first with HD and  then again with 4K and then you know with and   now more recently with HDR and I well first  of all broadcast TV is its its own thing right um   especially live sports we're actually  starting to see more more HDR sports more 4K   sports offerings it may be captured in 1080P  and then professionally upscaled to 4K but I mean   I watched the Super Bowl and 4K HDR and compared  it to the SDR broadcast and I mean it was a night   and day difference holy cow did it look good and  when you see some of the stuff that apple is doing   with MLS and um and some of their life Sports  offering I mean it looks fantastic right but but   I'm sorry I digress chicken or the egg why should  these uh why should these content makers content   creators broadcasters why should they make um  something amazing uh that nobody can see because   their TV can't do it right uh I do think it makes  sense to go ahead and make the display um that   is capable of all this stuff and let the content  catch up and you know I know that I I imagine that   there's a lot of viewers and listeners to this  uh podcast who are very much into physical media   and 4K Blu-ray discs and all that other stuff but  let's be honest most folks are streaming uh their   stuff and and increasingly they're streaming their  their linear or live TV too that stuff definitely   needs to catch up right um but I think there's  hope you know um I think that uh we're going to   see more and more um if if not native 4K at least  K upscaled and more importantly to me HDR Sports   broadcasts and and live event broadcasts and  you know in time maybe the industry   will catch up like movie and TV are still very  separate right you can use these absolutely   incredible cinema cameras for your movie  creation and then well a lot of it CGI anyway   and so that kind of trickles down as  premium content to our TVs but the more everyday   stuff that the TV stuff that we watch I mean do we  need 4K HDR "Price Is Right" probably not Drew Carey   looks okay you know he's they're doing  all right there but as we see Netflix and   Disney and Apple making incredibly gorgeous more TV style content right exotic stuff   the Mandalorian for example Severance you know  this stuff that's in 4K and HDR and beautiful   and consumed like we consume TV my hope is that  the more traditional TV providers are going to catch up because they know that a ton  of people have the TVs that can do it and it's gorgeous and people really do enjoy it and  I mean did I answer your question I mean it's   it's kind of a chicken or the egg thing I think now that there are TVs that can do 4,000 nits peak   brightness maybe we'll see more movies mastered to  that right that's the only thing holding it back   is them taking the time to do the the mastering  work and and give us an enhanced product so you   know they've got to have a place to shove all this  good stuff and us buying these premium TVs is  kind of setting that up yeah and I I think I'd  come back to Caleb's point from earlier that   the processing you know makes the TV and when  you have this huge amount of content that's being   delivered over streaming bandwidths there are  artifacts that come through with that whether you   know the original content was super high quality  4K HDR when you're down downloading that down a   relatively narrow pipe or you're watching older  movies or you're watching regular Blu-rays um that   processor that makes the mediocre quality content  look great is something that I think customers   are going to be very happy living with for a  long time and I think that's something that you   know we're pretty good about you know reporting  about up upscaling and video processing but lots   of TVs can make 4K HDR content look good fewer  TVs can make right lesser content look great   and so I think that's that's what sets apart the  kind of the entry level TVs from the really   high quality ones I think it's fascinating that  we spent all this time and we never mention 8K   once I was going to because well really Samsung's  the only one who's kind of really still pushing   that they've got two 8K lines for 2024 but to me  it's not the pixels that are the problem you know   I mean I'd give me a 1080p TV with really good  color saturation and contrast over an 8K TV where   maybe that's not as good not saying anything about  Samsung TVs their 8K TVs are gorgeous but pixels   aren't the problem at this point I don't think  I don't think there's a need for an 8K TV even   when you get up into larger screen sizes 4K can  look exceptionally good there was a time when I   said you don't buy the 8K TV for the resolution  you buy it for uh all the other premium guts   that the manufacturers were putting in it so if  you wanted the best backlighting technology and   the best processing you bought the 8K TV because  that was premium tier and that's where you got   the good stuff um yeah that's less true today  than it used to be uh I mean in part because of   what you just said um most most of the major TV  manufacturers have kind of taken their foot off   the 8K gas pedal so to speak um but you know it  but also the the top tier 4K TVs are incredible   like legit incredible up to 85 inches in  some cases even beyond 85 inches and and when   you do add all those extra pixels to fill up  and you don't have a whole lot of native content   to put it you've given the processor another big  job to do processors that are already getting kind   of taxed out um and so uh yeah you know I'm all  about putting the money where it matters most and   8K pixel you know 8K resolution I don't feel  like it means a whole lot these days anyway   it didn't used to be that it used to be that  if you really wanted the good stuff you bought   8K because that's where it was being piped all  the good stuff but now you know uh most major TV   manufacturers are giving you the good stuff in  a 4K model and and that just I think that just   makes more sense um so finally Caleb I know you've  reviewed a lot of these TVs lately um any standout   models any videos you want to point people to that impressed you and yeah just kind of wrap up   some closing thoughts on models yeah I mean I've  done I've done a few first impressions things you   know I won't call like if I go to a press event like the the Hisense one or the TCL one   that Chris and I were at together I do take  some measurements and I do you know get a couple   hours watching the TVs but I would never call that  a full review you just can't it just can't dive   in and do enough work for that and so you know  there you know I've done some coverage of what the   the Hisense lineup looks like and the TCL  lineup is looking like in terms of actual reviews   my review of the LG G4 OLED should be coming  out very soon maybe even tomorrow on the Digital   Trends YouTube channel would really appreciate  it if folks wanted to go and check that out   but the you know the review season has really  kind of just begun you know we've had all the   announcement events and all that good stuff  now the TVs are starting to hit the market and   now it's my job to start getting through them  uh ironically I am taking a vacation starting   this Friday so I'm it's the dumbest move ever  TV reviewers should not take vacations in and   June yeah you just you shouldn't do it but it  was the only place I could fit it in beacuse   I'm a professional trumpet player outside of my  work doing you know tech reviews and the wedding   season starts very soon and so I'm not going to  have any time for a vacation here pretty soon   so I'm gonna wedge one in but I'll be back at the  end of May and the TV reviews will be flowing and   honestly I think my biggest challenge this year  is to try to help people differentiate from all   the awesomeness that's out there because they're  I mean come on like these TVs are just they're   they're so good figuring out which one is the  right one for you that's the big challenge and   you know hopefully I'm up for it we'll see but yeah you know what thank you guys so much   for having me it's been a it's been a gas being  able to to chat about this stuff yeah thank you   we're honored to have you here Caleb Denison  Digital Trends Editor at Large I want to thank   you again and also our eCoustics Editor at Large  Chris Boylan this has been an eCoustics podcast   and we hope to see you next time. 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Channel: ecoustics

Views: 25,786

Keywords: home cinema, home theater, tv, television, electronics, consumer, consumer electronics, dolby atmos, audio news, tech, technology, tech news, ecoustics, 4k tv, 8k tv, 4k, 8k, flat panel, oled, mini-led, miniled, mini led, qd-oled, quantum dot, podcast, caleb, denison, digital trends, hisense, tcl, samsung, sony, lg, lg display, lg electronics, sony electronics, lcd tv, led tv, qd oled, wrgb, woled, w-oled, quantum dot oled, bravia, uled, 98-inch tv, interview, discussion, 2024 tvs, 2024 tv, hdtv, 1080p

Id: JjlmdqMtWJQ

Length: 57min 50sec (3470 seconds)

Published: Mon May 27 2024